This Dog is the best ruck in the game

[bornadog]

I have said this many times over the years that big guys take longer to mature (well not 100% of them).

Still only 25 years old. We must re-sign him for 5 more years

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fxs6_aCaEAAmBDJ?format=jpg&name=medium

English is surging towards an AA blazer (https://www.afl.com.au/news/940684/seven-things-we-learned-this-dog-is-the-best-ruck-in-the-game)


It is mid-season All-Australian time and Tim English produced the type of performance on Saturday night that has him on track to secure his first blazer in September.

The West Australian did it all against Geelong, amassing 27 disposals, 14 contested possessions, 12 marks (six contested marks), eight score involvements, eight tackles and 30 hit-outs. It wasn't enough to get the job done for Luke Beveridge's side, but it does put some space between him and the next best after 12 rounds of 2023. English produced patches of this level last year, but injuries interrupted his season. Now he is the best ruckman in the game. - Josh Gabelich

[bulldogtragic]

So you’re saying his trade value is at a mega peak? :D


Only joking.

[1eyedog]

I have said this many times over the years that big guys take longer to mature (well not 100% of them).

Still only 25 years old. We must re-sign him for 5 more years

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fxs6_aCaEAAmBDJ?format=jpg&name=medium

English is surging towards an AA blazer (https://www.afl.com.au/news/940684/seven-things-we-learned-this-dog-is-the-best-ruck-in-the-game)


It is mid-season All-Australian time and Tim English produced the type of performance on Saturday night that has him on track to secure his first blazer in September.

The West Australian did it all against Geelong, amassing 27 disposals, 14 contested possessions, 12 marks (six contested marks), eight score involvements, eight tackles and 30 hit-outs. It wasn't enough to get the job done for Luke Beveridge's side, but it does put some space between him and the next best after 12 rounds of 2023. English produced patches of this level last year, but injuries interrupted his season. Now he is the best ruckman in the game. - Josh Gabelich

I made a stat comparison in a post prior to the start of the year that at the same age as Tim is now Simon Madden's career took off.

[1eyedog]

So you’re saying his trade value is at a mega peak? :D


Only joking.

Let's just trade all our high collateral players out for top 10 picks and do a GWS. It seemed to work well for them.

[bulldogtragic]

Let's just trade all our high collateral players out for top 10 picks and do a GWS. It seemed to work well for them.

Can we then trade them two years later for lesser first rounders too?

[Grantysghost]

Essendon picked McGrath at #1 with their free pick whilst we got English at 19.

Noice.

[bulldogtragic]

Essendon picked McGrath at #1 with their free pick whilst we got English at 19.

Noice.

Premiership. Million dollar plus profit. English. Not a bad end to 2016.

[Rocco Jones]

*2nd best ruck in the game.

Sweet. Danjul, I got in before you mate.

[Stevo]

Classic late bloomer.

[JanLorMill]

Probably our best Saturday but saying best ruck in the league a week after Witts smashed him is very short sighted.

[1eyedog]

Can we then trade them two years later for lesser first rounders too?

Are you Jason McCartney or Sam Power? Now I'm confused.

[Bulldog4life]

Probably our best Saturday but saying best ruck in the league a week after Witts smashed him is very short sighted.

Spoilsport.

[Danjul]

Essendon picked McGrath at #1 with their free pick whilst we got English at 19.

Noice.
I was stunned when he got through to us. Couldn?t believe our luck. Was obviously going to be a champion. Why wasn?t he taken earlier?

[bulldogtragic]

Are you Jason McCartney or Sam Power? Now I'm confused.

I don’t barge into umpires rooms and abuse them.

[Grantysghost]

I was stunned when he got through to us. Couldn?t believe our luck. Was obviously going to be a champion. Why wasn?t he taken earlier?

Good q Danj. Loads of players went before didn't they. I guess teams are reticent to use a high pick on a ruckman as 1.)theyre usually down the bottom and need a quick fix and 2.)following on from that don't have the time to wait 6/7 years for them to come good.

I think Sean Darcy the probably 3rd best ruck in the league from Freo was way later like 30s! in that same draft.

[Danjul]

Good q Danj. Loads of players went before didn't they. I guess teams are reticent to use a high pick on a ruckman as 1.)theyre usually down the bottom and need a quick fix and 2.)following on from that don't have the time to wait 6/7 years for them to come good.

I think Sean Darcy the probably 3rd best ruck in the league from Freo was way later like 30s! in that same draft.
I remember seeing English?s video highlights at the time and he looked special. He did not move like most tall people. Very fluid and that gave him unusual acceleration and the ability to get into good positions.

I just wish we had given him more support while he was developing. Now he can offer support for his replacement in 2030.

[EasternWest]

I don?t barge into umpires rooms and abuse them.

Only because you don't know where the rooms are.

[Grantysghost]

I remember seeing English?s video highlights at the time and he looked special. He did not move like most tall people. Very fluid and that gave him unusual acceleration and the ability to get into good positions.

I just wish we had given him more support while he was developing. Now he can offer support for his replacement in 2030.

Actually i recall now an interview with Matt Rendell who was the Pies recruiting manager at the time I believe. I think the issue was there was a question around his competitiveness too aka he's too nice.

[1eyedog]

I don’t barge into umpires rooms and abuse them.

That's what he said.

[westdog54]

Two more tackles and he records the 9th ever 'quadruple-double' in AFL history. (Kicks, handballs, marks, tackles).

And played 86% game time. Only Gardner, Jones and Lobb spent longer on the ground for us.

That is a staggering workrate for any player, let alone a ruckman.

[mjp]

I was stunned when he got through to us. Couldn?t believe our luck. Was obviously going to be a champion. Why wasn?t he taken earlier?

I'm chuckling along with you anyway...

[HOSE B ROMERO]

Two more tackles and he records the 9th ever 'quadruple-double' in AFL history. (Kicks, handballs, marks, tackles).

And played 86% game time. Only Gardner, Jones and Lobb spent longer on the ground for us.

That is a staggering workrate for any player, let alone a ruckman.

Please don't let any commentators see that terminology. It will only encourage them..

[angelopetraglia]

He wasn't tonight. We really needed him to stand up tonight. We lost the hit outs 27-50. He looked like he was physically dominated by Lycett at the stoppages. He lowered his colours to a player who has been out of form. It hurt us.

[bornadog]

He wasn't tonight. We really needed him to stand up tonight. We lost the hit outs 27-50. He looked like he was physically dominated by Lycett at the stoppages. He lowered his colours to a player who has been out of form. It hurt us.

HTA Lycett 11, English 9

Clearances: WB: 47, Port 31

Hitouts mean stuff all unless it is to your teams adv.

Disposals, Tim 17, Lycett 11

[angelopetraglia]

HTA Lycett 11, English 9

Clearances: WB: 47, Port 31

Hitouts mean stuff all unless it is to your teams adv.

Disposals, Tim 17, Lycett 11

Yes. They are compelling stats. But to my eyes at the game, at the stoppages Lycett gave them more than English did. He just appeared off. To be fair, last week he did play one of the best games a Ruckman can play in the modern game, so maybe I was judging him against a Diamond Standard and he didn't play at that standard tonight.

[bornadog]

Yes. They are compelling stats. But to my eyes at the game, at the stoppages Lycett gave them more than English did. He just appeared off. To be fair, last week he did play one of the best games a Ruckman can play in the modern game, so maybe I was judging him against a Diamond Standard and he didn't play at that standard tonight.

I didn't see the game - so fair enough, but stats tell a different story. To me, looks like Lycett gave the ball to our mids

[GVGjr]

He wasn't tonight. We really needed him to stand up tonight. We lost the hit outs 27-50. He looked like he was physically dominated by Lycett at the stoppages. He lowered his colours to a player who has been out of form. It hurt us.

He did okay but got beaten by a Lycett who is a pretty good ruckman from time to time. No shame in that.

[JanLorMill]

Yes. They are compelling stats. But to my eyes at the game, at the stoppages Lycett gave them more than English did. He just appeared off. To be fair, last week he did play one of the best games a Ruckman can play in the modern game, so maybe I was judging him against a Diamond Standard and he didn't play at that standard tonight.
He played well last week but not as a pure ruckman

[JanLorMill]

HTA Lycett 11, English 9

Clearances: WB: 47, Port 31

Hitouts mean stuff all unless it is to your teams adv.

Disposals, Tim 17, Lycett 11
Where is the stat for being pushed out the way or monstered?
What the stats don’t tell you is how many of those hits to advance become a dirty clearance under pressure. Huge difference between a scrappy kick forward and a midfielder flying free through the centre.

[Hotdog60]

I couldn't believe the handball over the head that is just trying to be too clever and under pressure keep it simple.

[azabob]

HTA Lycett 11, English 9

Clearances: WB: 47, Port 31

Hitouts mean stuff all unless it is to your teams adv.

Disposals, Tim 17, Lycett 11

All due respect you didn’t see the game but you want to argue that English had a better game than Lycett based on stats alone and not take into account woof poster’s opinions? Reality is against certain types of rucks English will struggle. As GVGjr says, no shame in getting beaten by Lycett.

[Grantysghost]

All due respect you didn’t see the game but you want to argue that English had a better game than Lycett based on stats alone and not take into account woof poster’s opinions? Reality is against certain types of rucks English will struggle. As GVGjr says, no shame in getting beaten by Lycett.

What Lycett did well was act as a pivot almost by positioning himself in the middle at times away from the contest. Port used him often as an outlet as we left him free and they were off to the races.
Smart as you don’t want the dinosaur as part of your transition team. It was a gamble and it worked. Smart coaching, good play following instructions.

[Bullies]

Yes. They are compelling stats. But to my eyes at the game, at the stoppages Lycett gave them more than English did. He just appeared off. To be fair, last week he did play one of the best games a Ruckman can play in the modern game, so maybe I was judging him against a Diamond Standard and he didn't play at that standard tonight. I was watching off the ball and everytime Port had the chance they ran into English much the same they did to Gawn. I only ever saw Libber and Mcrae fly the flag. Not one umpire pulled them up on it. English would be a sore boy today.

[EasternWest]

All due respect you didn’t see the game but you want to argue that English had a better game than Lycett based on stats alone and not take into account woof poster’s opinions? Reality is against certain types of rucks English will struggle. As GVGjr says, no shame in getting beaten by Lycett.

My issue is that Tim didn't have any impact away from Lycett's strengths. He struggles against the big bodied ruckmen and I accept that, but his complete inability to work off Lycett and run him into the ground was infuriating.

He's a great athlete for a guy his size, way more mobile than those big rucks, so use that to get involved.

[SonofScray]

They worked him over off the contest and Lycett very clearly was driving the knee in at every opportunity. We didn’t do enough to support Tim last night and he didn’t fight particularly hard through it, despite having an OK game.

Staggered that they paid the free against English for kneeing.

[GVGjr]

I still think he's in the best 3 ruckman in the comp and one or two performances where he gets beaten by another ruckman wont change that.

[EasternWest]

I still think he's in the best 3 ruckman in the comp and one or two performances where he gets beaten by another ruckman wont change that.

Disagree. If other ruckmen get on top of you how can you be in the best 3?

You can be one of the best if you can overcome your shortcomings.

[Sedat]

Lycett was omitted from this team for a number of weeks due to poor form. He is no Gawn or Simon Madden.

Last night was a reversion back to "passive, avoid body contact" Tim. He should be wiping the floor with a journeyman Clydesdale like Lycett, both at stoppage and especially around the ground. I can live with an elite tap ruckman like Witts beating Tim at stoppage, not Lycett. He was without question really poor last night in all facets.

[GVGjr]

Disagree. If other ruckmen get on top of you how can you be in the best 3?

You can be one of the best if you can overcome your shortcomings.

It's a competitive spot and at times someone will beat you on the day, when looking at his overall season I think he is top 3 for sure.

[Grantysghost]

Lycett was omitted from this team for a number of weeks due to poor form. He is no Gawn or Simon Madden.

Last night was a reversion back to "passive, avoid body contact" Tim. He should be wiping the floor with a journeyman Clydesdale like Lycett, both at stoppage and especially around the ground. I can live with an elite tap ruckman like Witts beating Tim at stoppage, not Lycett. He was without question really poor last night in all facets.

Journeyman Clydesdale. Bravo.

[Critter]

It's a competitive spot and at times someone will beat you on the day, when looking at his overall season I think he is top 3 for sure.

Not sure about top 3. I would place him below Draper, Gawn, Darcy and Witts.

[Scorlibo]

To my eyes at the ground, I didn't notice a clear domination in the ruck contest. Certainly not the same level of domination in the ruck as he conceded to Pittonet and Witts. Thought Tim had some pretty clear wins, and while he was down on output around the ground still beat Lycett in this facet. The push forward to take a contested grab over Butters with Daniel's left foot assist in the last was poetry.

He can't do it every week but his performance against the Cats was very special, not something that many other players have done in my time watching football. He's had an incredible season and is the last player in our team that I'd scrutinise while trying to find reasons that we're losing.

[EasternWest]

It's a competitive spot and at times someone will beat you on the day, when looking at his overall season I think he is top 3 for sure.

Nah.

He's a good footballer. He's a poor ruckman.

[EasternWest]

He's had an incredible season and is the last player in our team that I'd scrutinise while trying to find reasons that we're losing.

Fair enough, but I don't think anyone is beyond scrutiny, particularly based on their previous body of work.

For mine he was poor and went away from using what his strengths are.

[jeemak]

What Lycett did well was act as a pivot almost by positioning himself in the middle at times away from the contest. Port used him often as an outlet as we left him free and they were off to the races.
Smart as you don’t want the dinosaur as part of your transition team. It was a gamble and it worked. Smart coaching, good play following instructions.

Yes, we didn't respond to that well at all.

[soupman]

Staggered that they paid the free against English for kneeing.

It was a shit free but I think it was because he kneed him then landed before the ball reached them. A bit like a low key version of when a ruck jumps on the other but does it too early and just impedes them.

The high one just before/after it was harder to figure out imo.

[jeemak]

It was a shit free but I think it was because he kneed him then landed before the ball reached them. A bit like a low key version of when a ruck jumps on the other but does it too early and just impedes them.

The high one just before/after it was harder to figure out imo.

The high one where they both incidentally got each other high/ infringed with no advantage but only one player got penalised?

[bornadog]

All due respect you didn?t see the game but you want to argue that English had a better game than Lycett based on stats alone and not take into account woof poster?s opinions? Reality is against certain types of rucks English will struggle. As GVGjr says, no shame in getting beaten by Lycett.

Nothing to do with Woofers Opinions - didn't have a go at anyone with all due respect :).

All I am saying is Hitouts is not everything unless they give you an advantage. Lycett got the hitouts but out of 40 odd 11 were to adv. I wouldn't know how he played around the ground.

[HOSE B ROMERO]

To my eyes at the ground, I didn't notice a clear domination in the ruck contest. Certainly not the same level of domination in the ruck as he conceded to Pittonet and Witts. Thought Tim had some pretty clear wins, and while he was down on output around the ground still beat Lycett in this facet. The push forward to take a contested grab over Butters with Daniel's left foot assist in the last was poetry.

He can't do it every week but his performance against the Cats was very special, not something that many other players have done in my time watching football. He's had an incredible season and is the last player in our team that I'd scrutinise while trying to find reasons that we're losing.

In that passage of play he actually marked the ball in our back pocket from the kick out and raced down the field. Extremely hard to play on in that facet.

[jeemak]

Nothing to do with Woofers Opinions - didn't have a go at anyone with all due respect :).

All I am saying is Hitouts is not everything unless they give you an advantage. Lycett got the hitouts but out of 40 odd 11 were to adv. I wouldn't know how he played around the ground.

I think the point BAD, is that if English fought harder and was stronger at times, he'd get more hands to the footy and more hit outs to advantage.

His hit out to advantage statistics are also not entirely to do with his level of proficiency as a tap ruckman. Just like our clearance players are elite at sharking every contest, they're also elite at sharking his - it takes two to tango. In a less talented clearance set up, his hit outs to advantage would likely be lower if he was generating the same total hit outs.

Appreciate you didn't see the game and you're not telling people how to think about the game, though a bit of context around the stats and what could have been is important.

[EasternWest]

I think the point BAD, is that if English fought harder and was stronger at times, he'd get more hands to the footy and more hit outs to advantage.

His hit out to advantage statistics are also not entirely to do with his level of proficiency as a tap ruckman. Just like our clearance players are elite at sharking every contest, they're also elite at sharking his - it takes two to tango. In a less talented clearance set up, his hit outs to advantage would likely be lower if he was generating the same total hit outs.

Appreciate you didn't see the game and you're not telling people how to think about the game, though a bit of context around the stats and what could have been is important.

And also didn't English starch Lycett earlier this year?

[Bulldog4life]

And also didn't English starch Lycett earlier this year?

I thought the same. Have a feeling Lycett was dropped shortly afterwards....I think.

[Critter]

And also didn't English starch Lycett earlier this year?

Lycett only played 41% game time that day. Injured I think. So, not really a useful comparison.

[JanLorMill]

Lycett only played 41% game time that day. Injured I think. So, not really a useful comparison.
Tactically subbed early with the weather being so bad. Dixon & Finlayson rucked well, English was good too

[azabob]

Tactically subbed early with the weather being so bad. Dixon & Finlayson rucked well,. English was good too

That change turned the game in their favour also.

[EasternWest]

Lycett only played 41% game time that day. Injured I think. So, not really a useful comparison.

He was subbed out because he was getting starched is how I recall it.

Please don't come back with any facts it would be ruinous to my position in this.