Grim reading! herald Sun analysis of where we are falling down

[The bulldog tragician]

https://i.postimg.cc/65QLD4Pb/F7-F1-F415-3-CFF-432-A-8-DBB-7-C333-F02-CBB2.jpg (https://postimg.cc/rzvr4sM5)

[GVGjr]

Thanks, I was about to post this. Interesting reading and covers a few points of what has been made on here.

[GVGjr]

Western Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge asked his players two questions inside Marvel Stadium on Saturday night.

1. Was it greasy?

2. Was there dew under the roof?

It was not April Fool’s Day.

The turnovers by foot committed in what appeared to be pristine conditions – albeit in what was a high-quality match against Geelong – had the premiership coach wondering, what on earth was going on?

“You would have noted that we sort of blatantly gave the ball back to them too many times in their front half,” Beveridge said.

“In open field and taking the ball across the ground we just didn’t execute well by foot, which is a real shame because we had some looks.

“At times our ball movement looked really promising – but it just broke down.”

The evening began skilfully. Scintillating passes from Marcus Bontempelli to Cody Weightman and then Weightman to Aaron Naughton unlocked the game’s first goal.

Weightman’s penetrating ball in the third quarter found Jamarra Ugle-Hagan alone in the goalsquare while Tom Liberatore (who is now 0-11 against the Cats) kicked it to Jackson Macrae in the second term.

But otherwise the connection combusted. Champion Data’s kick rating measure read poorly for Bailey Williams (-12 per cent) and hamstrung star Ed Richards (-15 per cent).

Only six of Oskar Baker’s 17 kicks hit a target while it was hard to go past Bailey Smith as a key culprit.

Only four of Smith’s 14 kicks were effective – the other 10 were ineffective or clangers.

One sailed out on the full and others were picked off by the likes of Tom Stewart.

Smith’s ball use has been scratchy for much of the season. He is rated as the fifth-worst kick in the AFL out of the 174 players who have recorded 100 or more kicks.

That’s due to his kick rating of -10 per cent. Against the Cats Smith went at -18 per cent.

It’s worth pointing out that Smith did enjoy a super patch in recent wins.

He was best-afield against Adelaide in Ballarat, excelled against Carlton captain Patrick Cripps and solid against GWS in Canberra.

The Dogs did so much right against Geelong before their intensity dissolved. Did last week’s Darwin heat sap their energy?

Perhaps a little. But they out-pressured Geelong, won contested ball and inside-50s and lost the game.

THE GOALKICKING YIPS

As the clock approached 11pm on Saturday night Lachie McNeil ran solo laps of Marvel Stadium in his full playing kit.

You wonder if he was replaying one kick over and over in his head. McNeil’s set-shot from 20m (after a 50m penalty) would’ve just about squared the scoreboard approaching the final change.

It was the substitute’s only kick for the night. But McNeil shanked it and the Dogs did not kick another goal.

Their two majors for the second half was unforgivable. It was also predictable based on previous evidence.

In the past three weeks the Dogs have kicked 32 goals from 89 shots (36 per cent).

They got out of jail with 11.19 against Adelaide thanks to their brilliant backline, but have gone home kicking their own behinds after kicking too many behinds against Gold Coast and Geelong.

These are Champion Data’s expected scores for their past three games: 100-56 against the Crows (they won 85-40), 88-74 against the Suns (they lost 77-84) and 89-88 against the Cats (they lost 75-97).

If the Dogs had won all three, as had been statistically expected except for their finishing, they would sit a game clear in third on the AFL ladder.

Fremantle list manager David Walls said at trade time last October: “206cm key forwards who kick two goals a game and can go through the ruck are very hard to find”.

It is still early and the Dogs will be hoping Lobb can find his 2022 form again.

Hours before this match Jordan Croft slotted three goals for Calder Cannons and excited recruiters in Craigieburn.

The athletic 200cm father-son prospect and ex-volleyballer looks a promising prospect who, along with 208cm swingman Sam Darcy, should be in the Dogs’ best 18 of the future.

That would’ve set up a top-four heavyweight battle on Friday night against a Port Adelaide line-up shooting for its 10th consecutive win and ninth-straight win at Docklands.

What a missed opportunity.

The last time Port lost under the roof was by 86 points to North Melbourne – when Ben Brown and Nick Larkey combined for 15.1.

Boy, how times have changed.

Here are the Dogs’ goalkicking culprits for the past three weeks:

Jamarra Ugle-Hagan 4.5 (13 shots)

Cody Weightman 4.3 (8 shots)

Aaron Naughton 3.4 (8 shots)

Bailey Williams 3.4 (8 shots)

Bailey Smith 2.3 (6 shots)

Rory Lobb 2.2 (6 shots)

Marcus Bontempelli 1.3 (6 shots)

Arthur Jones 0.3 (4 shots)

Oskar Baker 0.3 (4 shots)

Spearhead Naughton has not kicked multiple goals since round 8 and has been soundly beaten by Charlie Ballard and Sam De Koning in the past fortnight.

THE RORY LOBB DILEMMA

Rory Lobb is 12 games into a four-year contract and you wonder how safe he is in Beveridge’s side.

The narrative that Lobb is being wasted on a wing is misleading. Yes, he lined up on the wing against Ollie Henry at the opening centre bounce on Saturday night.

And Lobb ran further than every other player in the first quarter (4.4km) – but after the opening minutes he appeared to play exclusively as a key forward or ruckman.

By the final siren Lobb had spent just 6 per cent of his minutes on the wing.

That’s arguably even more concerning. Lobb registered just one kick after quarter-time (a behind in the final quarter) while playing in his natural positions.

CURIOUS COMMENT

Chris Scott – who has now coached 15 wins from 17 games against the Dogs – made a curious comment the day before the game.

“If the question is (are) Bontempelli, Smith, Macrae, Liberatore good players? Tick. Their draft position alone reflects that. We really respect them, but can we beat them? Yep,” Scott said.

He was right – Bontempelli was drafted at No.4, Smith at No.7, Macrae at No.6 and Liberatore was a father-son pick.

That’s a credit to the Dogs, who have nailed every top-20 pick since 2009. Their record at the pointy end of the draft is arguably the best in the competition.

But you wonder whether Scott was shining a light on the composition of his team.

From Saturday night these are the players taken by the Cats at pick 40 or later in the national draft – Jake Kolodjashnij, Jed Bews, Gryan Miers and Tom Stewart.

These are the rookies taken by the Cats – Tom Atkins, Jack Henry, Zach Guthrie, Bradley Close, Mark Blicavs.

And then there’s the Irishmen – Mark O’Connor and Oisin Mullin – who have formed an all-Irish half-back line along with Zach Tuohy, who was recruited from Carlton, plus delisted free agent Tyson Stengle.

The workrate of the rookies was unrivalled at Marvel Stadium.

Topping the GPS data was Blicavs (14.1km), Mullin (14km), Miers (13.9km) and Guthrie (13.4km). The only Bulldog in the top five was ex-Cat Ryan Gardner (13.8km), who played on Jeremy Cameron.

Some rival list bosses often quip, perhaps enviously, that Cats list manager Andrew Mackie has the easiest job in footy given the queue of stars who want to play for Geelong.

But there is little doubt they have extraordinarily mined and developed talent under Scott.
Star midfielder Mitch Duncan watched the win at home so he could get an early night before a key training session on Sunday morning as he, Patrick Dangerfield and Max Holmes prepare to return against the Power after the bye.

It’ll be a sweet few days off as Cameron heads to Cairns, De Koning to Phillip Island, Stewart to Byron Bay, Henry to an AirBnB on the coast outside of Geelong and Blicavs to assistant coach Nigel Lappin’s place on the Apple Isle.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

No surprises there with Smith and his atrocious kicking.

Basically sums up a lot of our time in the Bevo era. Shoot ourselves in the foot over and over and over again. It begs the question whether it's personnel or tactics. Because this happens far too often for it to be just "one of those games".

We are the absolute opposite of efficiency and precision. Something that the cats are excellent in and their record against us reflects it. The few games in the Bevo era where we have been efficient or precise we have absolutely torn the game to shreds. It's just such a rare occurrence and is often against poor sides. Our record against top 8 sides this season and last isn't fantastic.

[jeemak]

The thing about it is, the players have proven themselves perfectly capable of executing skills and kicking set shots.

[macca]

the more inefficient our disposals are + kicking inaccuracy infront of goal, we double the effort to score. No wonder our players are exhausted.

Can we please get a kicking coach ?

Essendon have beefed up their development staff from 2.2 to 5.5 staff now, Travis cloak is there.

Question is, what is the club going to do about all these "skill errors" ?

[ReLoad]

It’s about trust;

I have Zero trust in our team;

No trust in kicking for goal.
No trust in gut running.
No trust in arresting momentum.
No trust in digging deep.

They constantly let themselves and us down, it’s not like they don’t have ALL the attributes to smash teams, they do, but they just cannot be trusted.

I can only imagine what a team like 2008, 2009 would have done with English, Mara and naughty.

[jeemak]

It’s about trust;

I have Zero trust in our team;

No trust in kicking for goal.
No trust in gut running.
No trust in arresting momentum.
No trust in digging deep.

They constantly let themselves and us down, it’s not like they don’t have ALL the attributes to smash teams, they do, but they just cannot be trusted.

I can only imagine what a team like 2008, 2009 would have done with English, Mara and naughty.

They'd have become frustrated due to scores going begging because of bad kicking, right?

[Grantysghost]

They'd have become frustrated due to scores going begging because of bad kicking, right?

I loathe this bad kicking argument.

Oh .. yeah.... we would be good if we could kick straight!

No, if you can't kick, you're not good.

[Mantis]

Saw an interesting stat tonight on ?On the Couch?.

Gryan Miers has kicked the ball inside 50 on 42 occasions this and his teammate has marked it 45% of the time, Bazlenka has kicked it inside 50 on 41 occasions and his teammate has marked it 2% of the time.

FMD!

[macca]

Saw an interesting stat tonight on ?On the Couch?.

Gryan Miers has kicked the ball inside 50 on 42 occasions this and his teammate has marked it 45% of the time, Bazlenka has kicked it inside 50 on 41 occasions and his teammate has marked it 2% of the time.

FMD!

Miers knows his limitation and does nice accurate 30 m kicks . Geelong have fwd leading patterns where they do not clog each others space and they do not all fly for the mark.

I did not observe their forwards all flying into the same pack mark.

Hawkins and Cameron would be livid if one of their players did this.

We need a senior player on the ground to be an onfield forward coach as the game is played.
like how Selwood marshalled the team last year in the midfield.

[FrediKanoute]

Saw an interesting stat tonight on ?On the Couch?.

Gryan Miers has kicked the ball inside 50 on 42 occasions this and his teammate has marked it 45% of the time, Bazlenka has kicked it inside 50 on 41 occasions and his teammate has marked it 2% of the time.

FMD!

That is telling. AS one of the key connectors from midfield to forward you can' go at that low a level. Its a big reason why Daniel should not be playing back. Better to put Smith behind the ball at half back in place of Richards/JJ.

[bornadog]

The only thing grim is the Herald sun

[Mantis]

The only thing grim is the Herald sun

Lol… what part of the article don’t you agree with?

[GVGjr]

Miers knows his limitation and does nice accurate 30 m kicks . Geelong have fwd leading patterns where they do not clog each others space and they do not all fly for the mark.

I did not observe their forwards all flying into the same pack mark.

Hawkins and Cameron would be livid if one of their players did this.

We need a senior player on the ground to be an onfield forward coach as the game is played.
like how Selwood marshalled the team last year in the midfield.

It's a big thing for some players to go about their work within the limitations of their ability.
Scott is a good example of a footballer who plays within his limitations. He's not that great but he fits in nicely in the forward structure and has kicked 9 goals. Even Jack Macrae is on track to having his best goal kicking year albeit he's achieved a modest return of 5 goals. Jack is another who tries his best to play within his limitations. We've also had Caleb Daniel kicked 6 goals and he has played a bit in all parts of the ground

Our forward line hasn't quite clicked as a unit and it's concerning given we invested in it over the trade period by bringing in Lobb.
It's not a lack of enthusiasm because Jones and Weightman bring that. We have the role players in Scott, Macrae and Daniel so the focus and the questions have to be on why our taller forwards. I'm not sure of the value O'Donnell is providing us just yet.

Lobb has kicked 12 goals from 11 games but disappointingly has taken just 28 marks in those games. He's very tall but he isn't performing like a key forward should. When compared to Ugle-Hagan who's kicked 14.19 but has taken 54 marks in this 12 games it highlights how we need to get Lobb more involved. Marra is clearly a marking target and I'd like to think if he can fix his goal conversions we would be in a stronger position.

Naughton is in a bit of a dry spell over the last few weeks from a goal kicking perspective but like Marra he has taken 54 marks and he's kicked 22.18. There was a bit of a purple patch from rounds 4 to 8 before the dryer patch kicked in.

I'm at a bit of a loss to explain why our forward line isn't performing better but we do need more help from our mids like Bont and Williams.

[Sedat]

The only thing grim is the Herald sun
How has that post added anything to the conversation? It was a very interesting read and I appreciate TBT for starting the thread and others for adding to the discussion.

You should be thankful you live in a country where you get to choose which media you want to consume - there are plenty of countries out there that don't have such a basic luxury, and are instead spoon-fed state media propaganda from one source.

[Sedat]

Saw an interesting stat tonight on ?On the Couch?.

Gryan Miers has kicked the ball inside 50 on 42 occasions this and his teammate has marked it 45% of the time, Bazlenka has kicked it inside 50 on 41 occasions and his teammate has marked it 2% of the time.

FMD!
Yep, I fell off my chair when I heard that stat last night.

So is the problem our forwards and their leading patterns or the midfield and their connection/delivery? Or is it the overall game plan, which feels like a modern day variation of "Long Bombs to Snake", except Naughts also has to compete in the air against Marra, Cody and Rory as well as his two nominated defenders? And because Naughts is the big dog, he feels like he needs to compete absolutely everything in the air and occasionally spoils a teammate in better position to mark it.

It's certainly a mess and it threatens to derail our aspirations to properly contend in 2023.

[Mantis]

Yep, I fell off my chair when I heard that stat last night.

So is the problem our forwards and their leading patterns or the midfield and their connection/delivery? Or is it the overall game plan, which feels like a modern day variation of "Long Bombs to Snake", except Naughts also has to compete in the air against Marra, Cody and Rory as well as his two nominated defenders? And because Naughts is the big dog, he feels like he needs to compete absolutely everything in the air and occasionally spoils a teammate in better position to mark it.

It's certainly a mess and it threatens to derail our aspirations to properly contend in 2023.

I think it?s a little bit of everything discussed.. the forward line looks extremely ?busy? and it?s quite rare that our forwards have space to lead into?. The kicking skills of a number of our players is also well below what would be the ?mean?.

Agree that the season is being derailed by our inability to hit the scoreboard? something needs to change quickly.

Over to you Bevo.

[hujsh]

How has that post added anything to the conversation? It was a very interesting read and I appreciate TBT for starting the thread and others for adding to the discussion.

You should be thankful you live in a country where you get to choose which media you want to consume - there are plenty of countries out there that don't have such a basic luxury, and are instead spoon-fed state media propaganda from one source.

Second part is a bit weird a response to criticising a Newscorp tabloid. BAD is just as free to hate the paper as he is to appropriate or not the supposed choice in media.

First part is fair though it's not really engaging with the subject which seems valid.

[Sedat]

Second part is a bit weird a response to criticising a Newscorp tabloid. BAD is just as free to hate the paper as he is to appropriate or not the supposed choice in media.

First part is fair though it's not really engaging with the subject which seems valid.
I guess after the 1,000th time proclaiming his hatred for the Herald-Sun with no context for the actual content of the specific article quoted, it adds nothing to the discussion IMO. Criticism of the media is extremely valid in a free country like ours (I am not a fan of the media class at all, but I always try to challenge the specific content from any reporter/media organisation in my posts), but without any context to specific content it just feels like more boring angry-man shouting at cloud echo chamber type stuff.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Yep, I fell off my chair when I heard that stat last night.

So is the problem our forwards and their leading patterns or the midfield and their connection/delivery? Or is it the overall game plan, which feels like a modern day variation of "Long Bombs to Snake", except Naughts also has to compete in the air against Marra, Cody and Rory as well as his two nominated defenders? And because Naughts is the big dog, he feels like he needs to compete absolutely everything in the air and occasionally spoils a teammate in better position to mark it.

It's certainly a mess and it threatens to derail our aspirations to properly contend in 2023.

I'd also add that I think opposition teams know pretty well how to defeat us. Make our forward line busy and hurt us on the inevitable turnover or drop of the ball. They know their forward line will be wide open.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to know why we see these same problems all the time but like you say it needs to be addressed. During our win streak we didn't have these issues. Not sure if it's another chicken and egg situation. Were we playing differently? Better? Or was our (poorer) opposition trying to play 'their' way, enabling us to play more freely?

[bulldogtragic]

I guess after the 1,000th time proclaiming his hated for the Herald-Sun with no context for the actual content of the article quoted, it adds nothing to the discussion. Criticism of the media is extremely valid (I am not a fan of the media class at all, but I challenge the content from any reporter/media organisation I criticise), but without any context to specific content it is just more boring angry-man shouting at cloud echo chamber stuff.

Yep, not getting personal about it I don’t think Rupert is on the phone telling journos to accurately report WBFC disposal stats to ramp up his share price or topple a government. This is an uncomfortable conversation (our bad kicking, making us a poorer footy team) and we need to discuss that. I don’t go for any media anymore, but the facts or data someone presents like this isn’t an ‘angle’ or biased scoop or hit piece. It’s a red warning light to be honest, along with ‘Mr 2%’ last night. There ain’t no premierships coming to WO anytime soon if this decade of poor skills continues to roll on. After all this time nmakinh the same errors, not improving key things like goal kicking and never making top four under Bevo… I don’t know what the answer is. An illuminating discussion on here with knowledgeable footy thinkers might help me understand it. Be the source ABC or HUN. I think we see the facts irrespective of them lined up on a page long enough to make you want to cry.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think it?s a little bit of everything discussed.. the forward line looks extremely ?busy? and it?s quite rare that our forwards have space to lead into?. The kicking skills of a number of our players is also well below what would be the ?mean?.

Agree that the season is being derailed by our inability to hit the scoreboard? something needs to change quickly.

Over to you Bevo.

Yep, definitely both.

I watched our forwards closely a number of times on Saturday Night and they REFUSE to move. Marra is actually by far the best at it, but whether it's fatigue or still learning (or both), he can sometimes be 60-80m away from the play and not in a position to offer the kicker an option.

Naughton and Lobb's movements were poor. The reason we see at least 2 (and often 3, plus Cody) competing for the same ball is the lack of their movement. They wait for the long ball. It's actually the opposite of what Cameron does, and even Hawkins.

My biggest criticism of Bevo is that this isn't new. The poor connection between mids and forwards has existed for years, so too has our poor conversion. At what point do we accept this isn't something he CAN fix?

[bulldogtragic]

Yep, definitely both.

I watched our forwards closely a number of times on Saturday Night and they REFUSE to move. Marra is actually by far the best at it, but whether it's fatigue or still learning (or both), he can sometimes be 60-80m away from the play and not in a position to offer the kicker an option.

Naughton and Lobb's movements were poor. The reason we see at least 2 (and often 3, plus Cody) competing for the same ball is the lack of their movement. They wait for the long ball. It's actually the opposite of what Cameron does, and even Hawkins.

My biggest criticism of Bevo is that this isn't new. The poor connection between mids and forwards has existed for years, so too has our poor conversion. At what point do we accept this isn't something he CAN fix?

If these were fixable things, would Bevo not have fixed them by now?

[mjp]

Topping the GPS data was Blicavs (14.1km), Mullin (14km), Miers (13.9km) and Guthrie (13.4km). The only Bulldog in the top five was ex-Cat Ryan Gardner (13.8km), who played on Jeremy Cameron.


Blicavs: 17 disposals, 14km.
Mullin: 10 disposals, 14km.
Miers: 20 disposals, 14km
Guthrie, 16 disposals, 13.5km

Blicavs played a part and Miers was solid, but when we are using Mullin and Guthrie as examples of what players need to do...seriously give me a spell. Running > 1km per possession is never a great pointer to effective footy...it is a great sign of a headless chicken rolling aimlessly around the field...yeah, they're trying but...

All that said, I don't mind the article and it raises some great points. Our boys should read it and feel confident that even with some of the poor field kicking, from a goal-kicking stand point alone just being a little bit tidier would have changed the result in each of the last two weeks...and sure, bad kicking is bad footy and all BUT worse footy is not even being in a position to score.

[Danjul]

Yep, definitely both.

I watched our forwards closely a number of times on Saturday Night and they REFUSE to move. Marra is actually by far the best at it, but whether it's fatigue or still learning (or both), he can sometimes be 60-80m away from the play and not in a position to offer the kicker an option.

Naughton and Lobb's movements were poor. The reason we see at least 2 (and often 3, plus Cody) competing for the same ball is the lack of their movement. They wait for the long ball. It's actually the opposite of what Cameron does, and even Hawkins.

My biggest criticism of Bevo is that this isn't new. The poor connection between mids and forwards has existed for years, so too has our poor conversion. At what point do we accept this isn't something he CAN fix?
This is the nucleus of their problem.

They have to wait because when the backman intercepted the ball he had to stop, look sideways and then back to find where Gardner is. The kick back towards the opposition goal square is followed by a kick to the half back line and then a little chip to the wing, as close to the boundary line as possible.

By this stage the opposition has flooded our forward area and put their 2 best backmen within spoiling distance of Naughton and the rest of the team has set up for the quick run down the ground. A little pressure on the ball carrier means their kick is 2 degrees off target and our forwards would be wasting their energy trying to get the ball anyway.

Geelong was a lot more aggressive. Often with a fast (well rehearsed) move down the corridor. Their forwards knew where the ball was going.

[bornadog]

How has that post added anything to the conversation? It was a very interesting read and I appreciate TBT for starting the thread and others for adding to the discussion.

You should be thankful you live in a country where you get to choose which media you want to consume - there are plenty of countries out there that don't have such a basic luxury, and are instead spoon-fed state media propaganda from one source.

I hate that paper and every mask head owned by NewsCorp

[Bullies]

This is the nucleus of their problem.

They have to wait because when the backman intercepted the ball he had to stop, look sideways and then back to find where Gardner is. The kick back towards the opposition goal square is followed by a kick to the half back line and then a little chip to the wing, as close to the boundary line as possible.

By this stage the opposition has flooded our forward area and put their 2 best backmen within spoiling distance of Naughton and the rest of the team has set up for the quick run down the ground. A little pressure on the ball carrier means their kick is 2 degrees off target and our forwards would be wasting their energy trying to get the ball anyway.

Geelong was a lot more aggressive. Often with a fast (well rehearsed) move down the corridor. Their forwards knew where the ball was going. Opposition are happy to let us switch down back and kick across to Gardner or O'Brien knowing they can't kick especially under pressure and they will more than likely turn it over. So glad they brought up the disposal of Baker as he is an absolute butcher. Again we knew what we were getting there that his skills were not up to AFL standard.

[Sedat]

I hate that paper and every mask head owned by NewsCorp
I had absolutely no idea you felt that way. Thanks for clarifying.

[mjp]

Opposition are happy to let us switch down back and kick across to Gardner or O'Brien knowing they can't kick especially under pressure and they will more than likely turn it over. So glad they brought up the disposal of Baker as he is an absolute butcher. Again we knew what we were getting there that his skills were not up to AFL standard.

Baker's kicking is fine.

There is no doubt on Sat that the Cats were actively allowing us to switch back to Gardner. But I would ask exactly what everyone would like us to do?

We need to switch to the fatside to open the ground up/avoid kicking it down Stewart's throat...and a 35m + switch is not a great idea...so a link gets set up and at times that link will be O'Brien or Gardner...you can't rest skinny-side every time or your oppo will let you go...and getting pinned in against the boundary is worse than being pinned at CHB/in the corridor isn't it? Because from the boundary you have three options (lateral, 45, dtl - I guess u-kick is there but no-one wants to kick it through their defensive goal square in 2023)...so that minimises the options which makes it EASIER to defend and increases the pressure on players with shaky kicking skills...

We have to switch the play, spread the ground through both width and length - and kick it through the zone. You cant do that on a skinny field.

Baker had a bad night but he's had a good season. Gardner is not in the form he was in 2021 but that's OK...he plays with effort and energy and within his limitations.

Part of what i am seeing right now is when things aren't going perfectly we always want to KICK our way through when we really need to RUN our way through. Daniel does this most effectively (as does Dale when he's playing well - again, he isn't in that form right now and has become a bit of a straight line player) but you need to change angles with your LEGS to catch the oppo unawares. A zone can set up to cover a 35m switch - they can't cover a 35m switch and a 60m switch...so we need to break the lines with our LEGS (at angles) like we do when we're playing well.

For it to happen though, we need to attack with all 18 players active (keeping the ground BIG) and the ball-carriers prepared to change angles with their LEGS before kicking...

Daniel changing direction by 180-degrees on the weekend and THEN releasing by foot is an example.

If the expected score from the weekend STILL had us winning (and that only assesses shots on goal in terms of the outcome) despite some of our field kicking woes...I mean, things aren't that bad. And 2.7 to 8.2 after half-time means we suddenly need to worship at the alter of football savant Grien Miers? The kid had a good game but let's just back the truck up a touch please.

Ball movement needs more than one player. Blaming the kicker (as we seem determined to do right now) and hanging them out to dry (aka Footscray VFL side) is fine but there's more to it than that isn't there?

We aren't in great form or synch right now. We were playing better a few weeks back...let's hope the worm turns this weekend.

[Grantysghost]

MJP do you think JJ's injury has made us more static?

[D Mitchell]

The 3 tall forwards are over rated. Individually, they aren't really all that good, certainly not as good as many think they are. They average around 4 goals a game between them. Taking into account Darcy in the first game and now O'Donnell, it's often 4 talls. The whole 3 talls strategy, isn't working. If Naughton-Lobb-Ugle-Hagan are the best 3 we have, it's time to reconsider.

[mjp]

MJP do you think JJ's injury has made us more static?

100%. 'Cos we have lost a runner behind the ball. He will receive a handball and run a 45 whereas (right now) no-one else does that. Richards has a bit of a 'shifty' style ball in hand but look what happened on the weekend when he went off.

Dale is good when he's doing it but these days he seems to want to receive sprinting forward and continue sprinting forward - in a straight line. Everyone knows where it's going and no matter where the forwards lead the ball is going in ONE place. It's why Daniel is a wild card as he seems to insist on 'seeing' through 180 (360??) degrees...he also turns over a few which (of course) drives everyone crazy but you have to risk it for the biscuit right?

Everyone is different but you need different player types and personalities in the group. And for every Caleb Daniel you need a Gardner or a Roarke Smith who play their role reliably and whose movements are predictable to their team-mates...We have a good group right now - thinks could be a lot worse - and whilst their isn't much depth beyond player 25 or so, that's pretty typical of most lists. I'm not really understanding the criticism of our bottom 5-6 at the moment...our match winners are our match winners and if we want to win big games we need them to be the best players on the ground. I mean, it's been great to see Scott on top of the goal-kickers the past few weeks but it's not like we should be counting on that...we need Naughton, Jamarra and Weightman kicking goals with Bont joining in. How many did those 4 kick last week? That's why we lost.

[bornadog]

..we need Naughton, Jamarra and Weightman kicking goals with Bont joining in. How many did those 4 kick last week? That's why we lost.

Spot on. You can over analyse the game and find faults all over the ground, but at the end of the day if you don't take your opportunities you will fall short. We had over 60 plus more disposals, more cont. poss, a few more clearances but didn't finish off the work.

[DOG GOD]

I guess this is what happens when your #1 fwd is not a genuine fwd. ;)

[Grantysghost]

I guess this is what happens when your #1 fwd is not a genuine fwd. ;)

That's a paradoxical statement DG!

[GVGjr]

I guess this is what happens when your #1 fwd is not a genuine fwd. ;)

In 2021 and 2022 season he's bagged 100 goals and he's our leading goal kicker again this year.
I get the argument that he offers a lot of value as a defender but I don't get the constant commentary that he's not a key forward.
Most clubs would happily play him forward and work hard on improving his goal kicking conversions.

[Danjul]

In 2021 and 2022 season he's bagged 100 goals and he's our leading goal kicker again this year.
I get the argument that he offers a lot of value as a defender but I don't get the constant commentary that he's not a key forward.
Most clubs would happily play him forward and work hard on improving his goal kicking conversions.

His main problem is that he has to work too hard to get the ball.

Look at Lobb against us last year.

7 beautiful incoming kicks gave him 7 marks for 7 kicks leading to 4 goals 2. Didn?t raise a sweat.

He didn?t ruck once.

Specialising as a forward gives the expected result.

On Saturday he (and Naughton) rucked ? and failed as a forward.

If you put a forward in ruck you get *uck !

[bornadog]

His main problem is that he has to work too hard to get the ball.

Look at Lobb against us last year.

7 beautiful incoming kicks gave him 7 marks for 7 kicks leading to 4 goals 2. Didn?t raise a sweat.

He didn?t ruck once.

Specialising as a forward gives the expected result.

On Saturday he (and Naughton) rucked ? and failed as a forward.

If you put a forward in ruck you get *uck !

He is 23 and kicking 50 plus a year- he still maturing and is a genuine forward

[jeemak]

He is 23 and kicking 50 plus a year- he still maturing and is a genuine forward

It's not the point.

The point is we're asking Lobb and Naughton to ruck at times and Danjul thinks they should play solely as forwards, and I suspect, the end game is to suggest Sweet should be getting a game as the number one ruck with English in a support role of sorts somewhere on the ground.

[bornadog]

It's not the point.

The point is we're asking Lobb and Naughton to ruck at times and Danjul thinks they should play solely as forwards, and I suspect, the end game is to suggest Sweet should be getting a game as the number one ruck with English in a support role of sorts somewhere on the ground.

Sorry didn't read the whole thread. Lobb is there as the second ruck/fWd. Agree Naughton should not ruck.

[muzzyahoy]

With all the over complexities of professional sports these days, it's amazing how much basic fundamentals are missing in almost all major sports. Such an emphasis is placed from such a young age on winning, that the fun-damentals of sport have gone missing. The more you understand something, the less complicated it becomes, the more successful you are at it and in turn, the easier it gets.
Watching someone like Bailey Smith tear through the lines, create separation and then butcher the kick takes me back to being about 8 yrs old playing both footy and basketball and my old man telling me "You can't kick straight or complete a layup if you're off balance, and the best way to get your balance is slow down before you kick or shoot the ball, compose yourself then do what it is you want to do"
It's the same when I watch an AFL footballer take one step and kick, try and handball 10 metres without stepping through the ball, calling for the ball without attempting to create separation between themselves and their opponent. It's the most infuriating thing about watching professional sport, watching people do something they've done almost everyday of their youth and adult life and then making mistakes that are fundamental, not ability driven. Over complicating simple games is the bane of professional sports, IMO

[mjp]

Watching someone like Bailey Smith tear through the lines, create separation and then butcher the kick takes me back to being about 8 yrs old playing both footy and basketball and my old man telling me "You can't kick straight or complete a layup if you're off balance, and the best way to get your balance is slow down before you kick or shoot the ball, compose yourself then do what it is you want to do"


I get it, but you don't think the players aren't receiving the same messages that you did?

Playing is hard otherwise we would be celebrating our 350th this week like Buddy.

[muzzyahoy]

What's the old saying, "Those that can, do. Those that can't teach". Probably explains why Spangher is our Forwards coach.

Personally, I think if Naughty moved to the backline, it would remove the temptation for most mids and half forwards to keep bangin' it into a pack.

Also, instituting the "if you're under 6 ft tall, you can't fly for marks in the forward line" rule that most of us grew up with would mean our crumbers actually crumb, and hone those skills.

It's always easy to critique. But also, distance gives perspective, so imagine how much I have now living in Canada, LOL ;)

[EasternWest]

What's the old saying, "Those that can, do. Those that can't teach".

so imagine how much I have now living in Canada, LOL ;)

mjp this sounds like an invitation to the nets.

I wonder what the Canadian equivalent is? Poutine restaurant? Fishing hut?

[GVGjr]

Watched a bit of footy classified last night and the highlighted our use of Lobb and then compared it how Finlayson is performing for Port and Lobb isn't working as hard as he needs to.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

This article confirms what I witnessed.
Inferior kicking skills on the night

[Danjul]

Watched a bit of footy classified last night and the highlighted our use of Lobb and then compared it how Finlayson is performing for Port and Lobb isn't working as hard as he needs to.
Lobb is a quality finisher when given the ball. He is not a process starter. The game plan has to adapt to him to maximise the return.

[GVGjr]

Lobb is a quality finisher when given the ball. He is not a process starter. The game plan has to adapt to him to maximise the return.

He doesn't spend a lot of time on the wing but you have to wonder why we we have him there and if we can eventually start getting some decent goals from him like he was capable of last year.

[Grantysghost]

He doesn't spend a lot of time on the wing but you have to wonder why we we have him there and if we can eventually start getting some decent goals from him like he was capable of last year.

I felt like he was JUST starting to become the player we wanted and they move him to the wing for small periods?

Is it so he can push back and be an extra in defence I haven't actually watched what he does when he's in that role.