Ball movement question

[mjp]

Watching the game (vs Essendon), my opinions of the kicking and decision making skills of four (4) of our defenders were confirmed as 'poor' or 'fair'. Morris, Lake, Addison and Callan all bring different things to the team - but smart decision making and precision by foot are not those things. If anyone has a chance to watch the replay, review the 3rd quarter - whenever one of these guys got the ball, the next person to have it will be wearing red and black.

Given ALL of them play 'behind the ball' and need to hit targets to provide rebound, to me this is a massive issue and something that is going to cost us dearly in the very near future.

Does anyone else agree? Disagree?

[hujsh]

I say it's a fine line. Do you want a McMahon or a Callan/Addison? Everitt would be the perfect solution.

[LostDoggy]

I think its a trade off. All 4 mentioned are hard at it.
Rather a combination of those 4 than MacMahon and Power there.
Not many hard at it prue defenders are highly skilled.

[immortalmike]

I partially diagree in that I think Brian is a pretty good kick but yeah the rest may cost especially with Shaggy (who I like) missing targets also. In other words Gilbee is pretty much a lone hand without Grif back there.

[bornadog]

I agree with MJP, we cannot afford to turnover the ball coming out of the backline. Gilbee is the only one with superior decison making skills. Addison is still learning, Lake is hit and miss. When Lake hesitates, I almost shut my eyes as I know the ball is about to be turned over, however, many times he does end up passing it to someone. Callan and Morris can run the ball out of the backline, but their execution is poor. This happened many times on Friday night and these guys have to work on it.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Its an issue.

All the players you mention MJP are incapable of setting up a forward attack with a long pinpoint kick, they tend to chip it to short leads who then set it up, with perhaps the exception of Lake whose probably the best of the four.

The backline relies on Hargrave and Gilbee for its precision. I've also noticed that Boyd is working back a lot more into the backline than in previous years, so that his kicking can be used to help set things up.

Callan, Addison and Morris, seem to not always push back hard after they have taken a mark and get a little bit of forward momentum before kicking - but I am no biomechanical expert

With the new elite learning centre and talk of VU biomechanists, how much can a players kicking action be improved through this type of feedback?

[Go_Dogs]

Whilst I am concerned about the execution of the 4 guys you listed, I think they still have enough composure most of the time to make the right decision. On Friday they got a bit panicky and lost their nerve however more often than not over the first few rounds they've managed to dispose of the ball safely.

I will agree that we need one more quality runner from the back half, as Gilbee will often be tagged and not able to exert his normal influence over the game. The options include allowing Murph or perhaps Welsh to play from the back half for parts of the game, Everitt adds a good option when he comes back, and FWIW I think Ray could be a great player in a running half back role - although again he still has at times questionable disposal.

I think Griffen is needed up field. But when we have a back 6 including Morris, Lake, Callan, Addison and Wight it isn't really a very strong run and carry and hit the target back 6...

Perhaps Cal Ward will play off a hbf.

[1eyedog]

I think its a trade off. All 4 mentioned are hard at it.
Rather a combination of those 4 than MacMahon and Power there.
Not many hard at it prue defenders are highly skilled.


Exactly. They apply extra pressure on the opposition's forwards so it is a trade off. I would also rather the four Bulldogs mentioned rather than McMahon (who was sloppy with his disposal at times anyway or Power who is just an ordinary footballer at best). When Shaggy kicks long the pill flies ok but his short field kicking is really dodgy at times (i.e grubbers), Lake can also be suspect in this area. It's a problem that more high-pressure type of situations will hopefully iron out. It was hard on the back six last Friday night as the pill was coming in so quick because in the 2nd and 3rd quarters the Dons were winning in the midfield, this also stresses you out somewhat as a back man and may be the antecedent to more mistakes, still to be contenders for the finals we need a good solid defence making good decisions. They say grand finals are won from here.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Lake, while prone to brainfades, usually takes the safe option 20 metres away. Rocket told us that clubs drop off him when he has the ball knowing that he wants to kick short and safe, this is when he is vulnerable to brain fades. In this situation he is under strict orders to run with the ball and kick it as long as he can.

Morris tends to stop and prop a bit and try to get the ball to a better kick.

Addison and Callan are simply poor ball users but I can see Addison getting better. We are just going to have to accept what Callan brings to the table and what his limitation are.

[aker39]

Get Doug down to club and get him to show them how to use the ball.

[1eyedog]

Get Doug down to club and get him to show them how to use the ball.

So much more pressure and less time than Doug's day.

[Topdog]

I agree it is a huge problem and it confirms in my mind what almost cost us the match...our mistakes.

We made so many in that 3rd quarter and I never thought that Essendon were doing anything exceptional.

Harris I don't have so much of a problem with but the others are big liabilities in the skills department.

[hujsh]

One difference i noticed on Friday is that they didn't hand it to Cooney as often in the defensive 50 as they had been.

[LostDoggy]

Callan is one of those up and under kicks which almost guarantees a turn-over. Morris has been there long enough to have shown some improvement in this area. Whilst the rest of his game is excellent, his kicking lets him down.

It's interesting to compare our fellows with Hawthorn, who from a recruiting point of view take the postion that if you can't kick you can't play football.

Can't say that I disagree with that approach.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Callan is one of those up and under kicks which almost guarantees a turn-over. Morris has been there long enough to have shown some improvement in this area. Whilst the rest of his game is excellent, his kicking lets him down.

It's interesting to compare our fellows with Hawthorn, who from a recruiting point of view take the postion that if you can't kick you can't play football.

Can't say that I disagree with that approach.

Hawthorn may say that but Sewell, Brown, Clarke and others are not the most fluent kicks.

I think the Hawks balance hardness and kicking ability - but are no longer selecting players who cant kick - but that said Clayton pretty much started that trend years a go didn't he? Its very rare that Clayton picks someone who isn't a very good kick.

[dog town]

It can be a problem especially when we are under the pump a little bit.

Lake- I actually think that when he plays instinctively and kicks long and with some sort of forward momentum that he is a nice kick. It is when he over thinks the situation and chips the ball off a step that he lets himself down.

Morris- He is just a poor ball user. Has gotten better but will never really have hurt sides by foot. Lacks any real penetration in his kicking.

Addison- Probably our worst player by foot. Still time for him to tidy it up a little bit but will never really hurt sides.

Callan- Is obviously not a great user of the footy but I didn't think his use was particularly bad the other night. Just needs to be aware of what he is capable of so that he can eliminate his errors. Been massively impressed with the toughness he brings so his disposal would have to be pretty ordinary at the moment to shift him.

It is probably a good point MJP makes because for the first 3 quarters Gilbee barely touched it and we really had trouble moving the ball at times in the second and third quarters. I think that was mainly to do with us kicking to short and not running hard enough but our lack of foot skills off half back may have also contributed. Bringing Everitt into the mix would help but making sure we get plenty out of Gilbee should be our first priority.

[Sockeye Salmon]

It can be a problem especially when we are under the pump a little bit.

Lake- I actually think that when he plays instinctively and kicks long and with some sort of forward momentum that he is a nice kick. It is when he over thinks the situation and chips the ball off a step that he lets himself down.

Morris- He is just a poor ball user. Has gotten better but will never really have hurt sides by foot. Lacks any real penetration in his kicking.

Addison- Probably our worst player by foot. Still time for him to tidy it up a little bit but will never really hurt sides.

Callan- Is obviously not a great user of the footy but I didn't think his use was particularly bad the other night. Just needs to be aware of what he is capable of so that he can eliminate his errors. Been massively impressed with the toughness he brings so his disposal would have to be pretty ordinary at the moment to shift him.

It is probably a good point MJP makes because for the first 3 quarters Gilbee barely touched it and we really had trouble moving the ball at times in the second and third quarters. I think that was mainly to do with us kicking to short and not running hard enough but our lack of foot skills off half back may have also contributed. Bringing Everitt into the mix would help but making sure we get plenty out of Gilbee should be our first priority.

If I was coaching against us shutting down Gilbee would just about be my no. 1 priority.

[dog town]

If I was coaching against us shutting down Gilbee would just about be my no. 1 priority. Same. He seems to cope with it most weeks though. Griff and Murphy are other options I suppose but god knows what we would do if Gilbee went down for an extended period. This thread really highlights our reliance on him at the moment.

Depending on how the season pans out it is an area we might need to address at trade time. Quite a few guys jump out straight away as being possibly available but you would like to see how we develop this year first. Getting Everitt up and running must be a priority.

[ledge]

Will you blokes stop giving Wallace ideas!!
Sockeye if Wallace wins game and says oh i read on a website shut down Gilbee and it worked, i think 200 of us are going to slap you!
Just quietly wouldnt be surprised Wallace does things outside the square.

[Mantis]

Will you blokes stop giving Wallace ideas!!
Sockeye if Wallace wins game and says oh i read on a website shut down Gilbee and it worked, i think 200 of us are going to slap you!
Just quietly wouldnt be surprised Wallace does things outside the square.

Why is stopping Gilbee thinking outside the square?

The modern game is primarily won in in two simple ways :

1. Dominating the midfield - clearances follwed by inside 50's.
2. Rebound from defence.

On this simple theory you need to stop the opposition's best midfielders and best rebounding player's. Simple stuff really.

[ledge]

Why is stopping Gilbee thinking outside the square?

The modern game is primarily won in in two simple ways :

1. Dominating the midfield - clearances follwed by inside 50's.
2. Rebound from defence.

On this simple theory you need to stop the opposition's best midfielders and best rebounding player's. Simple stuff really.

Didnt mean stopping Gilbee is outside the square i meant Wallace getting information off a website like this .

[Templeton31]

watching on the weekend I actually thought Callan's disposal was improving. Yes he still had some up-and-under Barry Crockers but he also had a few successful ones in there too. I would also say that one area of Callan's decision making is very good and that is getting to the right spot where the ball is gonna be. He seems very good at knowing when to leave his man and be 3rd man up and also seems quite good at running into space out of defence and making himself available. the latter might be in part as opposition teams arent too worried about him b/c if he gets the ball there is a fair chance a clanger follows but from a purely decision making point of view he makes some good choices in reading the play and getting the ball.