3 things learned from Rd17 vs Collingwood 2023

[GVGjr]

Lets hear 3 new things you've learned from our round 17 clash with Collingwood.

[bulldogtragic]

1. McNeil as a small forward doesn’t need to kick his goals to keep his spot - nice for him
2. 40m is the new 75m - not goal scoring distance
3. Lobb helps others with his presence, but that’s not enough with his talent and our purchase price/expectations

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

1. We desperately need to win a game like this against a top team to really change the level of self belief in this side. When the heat is on, right now we just don't have the confidence of a team that know's its best is better than the opposition.

2. Our mids really let the team down in that 3rd Qtr. When are they going to learn?

3. Jamarra, Weightman, and Naughton really combined well tonight. Good signs for the future.

[westbulldog]

1. A 2 goal loss to the top team is a very good effort, especially with a weakened backline.
2. Rhylee West holds his spot, provides good forward line pressure.
3. Bailey Smith must play in the middle for at least 1/2 of every game.

[anfo27]

1. JUH developing quicker than i thought. Getting better every week. Geez how good would he be if he could kick like Dickson.
2. We still got it- We showed tonight we can play an exciting brand of footy. Yeah we lost to another top 8 side tonight but we have not taken the game on like that before. Do like we did tonight & we can beat teams in the 8, no doubt in my mind.
3.Gardy- got to give this guy some love. Thought he was the worst player on a list when he started with us. Showed heart tonight. Was banged up & sore but didn't give up. Warrior tonight.

[GVGjr]

This is going to be very Pies focused

1 - Collingwood are an awesome side but the way we faded later in the 1st and 2nd quarters when they rallied underlined how much fitter they're than us.
2 - They have a lot of players who really know their role.
3 - The Daicos brothers are something else.

I'm chucking in one more, the scoreboard flattered us.

[macca]

This is going to be very Pies focused

1 - Collingwood are an awesome side but the way we faded later in the 1st and 2nd quarters when they rallied underlined how much fitter they're than us.
2 - They have a lot of players who really know their role.
3 - The Daicos brothers are something else.

I'm chucking in one more, the scoreboard flattered us.

McCreery is really under rated . His quick and has intent liKE Clayton Oliver , he wants the ball and will tear it off ya if he can.
Bobby Hill was good as well. How the hell did they find Ash Johnson ? The kid can play
Jamie Elliott is such a good foward, knows where to run and now has his kicking sorted ouy

Yeah and they can kick goals when it counts

[Dry Rot]

1. My grandma would tackle better than our guys, and she's been dead for 20 or 30 years.

2. A note to the mods, please perma ban anyone on here who claims that we've got a good midfield. We don't.

3. Something is seriously wrong with Bailey Smith, either mentally, or physically or both. I flagged this last week

[bornadog]

1. I was very happy with our effort for the majority of the game - our issue is we don't have quick small players.

2. When you play any team you can't afford turnovers and top teams make you pay - only takes a few and you lose by a few,.

3. Exciting watching JUH, Naughton and Weightman

[macca]

1. JUH got a lot of respect tongiht from the opposition , Moore was on him for a while . So it’s a good sign of his growth a development . Really good game
2. Our small mids and fwds,,don’t have any pace , fumble and have no idea how to crumb
3. We have no contain the opposition plan , when they get on a run . We just drop our bundle and let them walk out of the centre . The centre square tap where Degoey just raced through the middle was painful to watch

[The Bulldogs Bite]

1. A bit of paint over the cracks tonight. Did well to only lose by 2 but the reality is we were blown out of the water when the game was up for grabs. We just aren't good enough to contend. We can talk about missed chances, but so did they. Contenders don't conceed something like 10 out of 11 goals and sadly that's a hallmark of this side for at least 2 years now. Our list needs a rebuild but we won't do it.

2. Nick Daicos really is incredible. I was interested to watch him live tonight and thought how good could he actually be as a second year player? He's everything they write about him and more. Absolutely elite decision making, elite composure, elite skill, deceptively quick, very clever. He's gonna win the Brownlow. It's scary.

3. As much as I love Bont, in my mind, his inability to execute tarnishes his legacy. All too often he blows opportunities and it ends up being a changing of momentum in the game. Kills us every time.

[westdog54]

1. If the coaches aren't addressing JUH's set shot technique they are doing him a grave disservice. Only thing holding him back from greatness.

2. Ryan Gardner is one tough mother****er.

3. I knew we were missing Ed Richards, I just had no idea how much.

[whythelongface]

This is going to be very Pies focused

1 - Collingwood are an awesome side but the way we faded later in the 1st and 2nd quarters when they rallied underlined how much fitter they're than us.
2 - They have a lot of players who really know their role.
3 - The Daicos brothers are something else.

I'm chucking in one more, the scoreboard flattered us.

Are they that much fitter than us? We ran the game out stronger and also had opportunities to stem the tide but failed to do so. I just think they are better than us. It is that simple. Their execution is more precise and they have players that work harder. I don’t buy the fitness level difference.

[GVGjr]

Are they that much fitter than us? We ran the game out stronger and also had opportunities to stem the tide but failed to do so. I just think they are better than us. It is that simple. Their execution is more precise and they have players that work harder. I don’t buy the fitness level difference.

When our players came off the ground they were more spent than I can recall. We rallied in the last quarter when Collingwood flipped a switch and tried to slow the game down.

[MrMahatma]

Our fwd line is very dangerous.
Marra has everything needed to be the #1 forward in the comp. He schooled Moore in the first half.
I knew Daicos was good but he made our mids look slow of body and mind.

Also: Gardner is bloody tough and relentless and deserves his spot in the team.

[EasternWest]

3. Quaynor is very thick, solid, tight. He's a really good player.
2. The Pies are the real deal, and while I think the final result flattered us a little bit, we really aren't that far off when we're on.
1. Agree re Gardner. I thought he actually played pretty well anyway, but he's tough as they come.

[Hot_Doggies]

Regarding point 2. When JUH started with us he had a nice arc in his run up , a fairly predictable kick ball flight (left to right draw) and could kick 55m easily.

Now he runs in straight, doesn't know which way it will go and can?t kick 45m?..

[merantau]

The posts on this thread are very perceptive and there is a lot I agree with and not much I'd reject.
I think the main difference between the sides was they were cleaner by hand, kicked more precisely and nailed more chances than us. Momentum is everything in a big game

But there is one intangible that also plays a big role in the final result of a willing contest: the bounce of the ball, the ricochet off a players body that lands to advantage, the hack kick that falls in safe hands.

I suspect that a forensic analysis of last night's game would show that the footy gods' smiled more beningly on the Pies last night. My Bulldogs Bias maybe kidding me but I doubt it.

[Grantysghost]

3. Quaynor is very thick, solid, tight. He's a really good player.
2. The Pies are the real deal, and while I think the final result flattered us a little bit, we really aren't that far off when we're on.
1. Agree re Gardner. I thought he actually played pretty well anyway, but he's tough as they come.

Quaynor got loose a lot, he wasn't following the extra and hanging back.
He is a good player first time I've really watched him.

Pies are the deserved flag favourites.

What I'd give for a McCreery / Degoey type power running beast.
It's what we lack in the midfield. Wonder how Ed would go there?

[D Mitchell]

1. Teams, like C'wood, which run forward, fast, in waves and get the ball into an area in front of goal, not in pockets, prosper.
2. Teams that bring to ball out of defence, stop, go sideways/backwards to other players who also go sideways/backwards, get overrun.
3. Gardner is under rated by supporters, limped off 3 times yet fought it out.

[macca]

My respect for Garnder went up a whole lot more , his resilience is phenomenal. His just 110% team player
when i look at his football journey , his managed to pull together 50 games , i hope he can make 100 , as he is a good story of persevernce.

Players like him lacking football elite traits , tend to get over looked
His got elite endurance , elite reslience , ok speed and his managed to play 50 games now. Other clubs would delist players like him very quickly

Playing through pain and injury is not easy, 96% tog!
That intercept punchnhe made on Hill summed up Gardner , the reason his in the team. Really nice to watch

[Bullies]

1. JUH developing quicker than i thought. Getting better every week. Geez how good would he be if he could kick like Dickson.
2. We still got it- We showed tonight we can play an exciting brand of footy. Yeah we lost to another top 8 side tonight but we have not taken the game on like that before. Do like we did tonight & we can beat teams in the 8, no doubt in my mind.
3.Gardy- got to give this guy some love. Thought he was the worst player on a list when he started with us. Showed heart tonight. Was banged up & sore but didn't give up. Warrior tonight. Good to see you recognised Gardner. Very much under rated and for whatever reason appears to be the whipping boy.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

1 Marra has arrived and promises so much
2. Ditto for Weightman
3. We were not good enough despite some great individual performances.

[Mofra]

1. We still haven't learned to set up defensively at the centre bounce when we lose momentum
2. Our best is good enough. It beats any team. We just need to sustain it
3. At times last night, our best midfield set up excluded both Bont & Macrae which would have been sacrilege to say 12 months ago - especially with Dunks moving on.

[anfo27]

Good to see you recognised Gardner. Very much under rated and for whatever reason appears to be the whipping boy.

As I said I thought he was the biggest spud in the league. I remember him giving a free kick away in a 50/50 contest against Jade Gresham in his first few games, Jade Gresham!
Credit where its due though. I admire his resilience. He isn't gifted with much natural ability but he gives it everything & he is a tough hombre.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Regarding point 2. When JUH started with us he had a nice arc in his run up , a fairly predictable kick ball flight (left to right draw) and could kick 55m easily.

Now he runs in straight, doesn't know which way it will go and can?t kick 45m?..
You support a principle Ted Whitten and I disagree with.
Run in straight.
Same as golf.
There is no reason you can't strike the ball pure, in fact a greater guarantee.
Plus you are disrespectful to Marra.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Seems media think Saints played great in losing but we weren't up to it in losing by less.

[GVGjr]

Seems media think Saints played great in losing but we weren't up to it in losing by less.
I've not read anything too critical of our performance but I thought the way both the Saints and Dogs fought it out was impressive.

[azabob]

1. Watching the game live at the venue leaves supporters with a more positive outlook, compared to supporters who watch the game on the tv.

2. I called this out last week but has to be called out again. Caleb Daniel franked his all round ability to play back and midfield. Absolute star.

3. Could it be possible by having a natural forward in JUH as our main target our forward line suddenly appears functional and open? Last couple of weeks have been promising.

[AshMac]

1. Slow and stale ball movement. Every. Single. Week.

2. The pies have to be the fittest team in the league, their overlap run and ability to move the ball in a pack reminded me of the tigers in 2017

3. Gee we were dominated in the middle, haven?t seen it at that level for a while. English was absolutely monstered in the ruck contests

[Critter]

1. Bailey Smith is a midfielder, pure and simple. Not a forward flanker and not a winger. He thrives on the cut and thrust, push and shove, both inside and outside. He is a gun player who we are mishandling. Core midfield is simple - Bont, Libba, Treloar, Smith & Macrae.

2. Pushing a forward up into the opposition back-line is counter-productive. Too often, when we have a fast entry into our forward line, we face an outnumber. The opposition get easy possession, quickly set-up of their transition game-plan and, whooska, there's a run-on we can't defend. On Friday I got very tired of watching Quaynor mark/short kick from Quaynor to Noble/fast kick from Noble to either Daicos and then... goodnight.

3. Our rucks are struggling. Time to make a call and give Lobb a rest. Don't care who he is, no-one should be able to play as poorly as he is and retain his place - 1 mark and 9 hit-outs doesn't the mustard. He provides next to no contest. Time to bring in Sweet and have him do the majority of the tap work. Have Tim play a different manner of game - a la Max Gawn. Play close to goal and provide better contest for any outnumbers that result when our forwards head off to greener pastures down back.

[The bulldog tragician]

I had more things that confused me rather than learnt:

I still don’t know whether we are able to match a premiership favourite or not. It is hard to know whether to take heart from the times we are scintillating or be concerned that we can’t sustain it. Collingwood’s best in quarter three looked like a level we can’t reach but it’s funny that the period where we were very dominant in q1 doesn’t leave the same impression.

I am not sure, either, what is our designated game plan, or what is players moving away from those directions under fatigue or pressure. We seemed initially to be playing more directly and taking more risks than we’ve seen this season. It was exhilarating and we reaped rewards. When Collingwood lifted we reverted to slow and cautious ball movement. (For what it’s worth Cameron Mooney has criticised us as unwatchable due to over possession of the footy and an ineffective handball to kick ratio). In the last qtr our courage and fight couldn’t be doubted but we couldn’t do what Collingwood do in their famous fight backs - storm through the middle and score heavily in minutes. In one passage of play that sticks in my mind when the game was still winnable one of our players handpassed to Bont who was just outside 50 but slipped over. The Pies were away of course. There were other examples of us still trying to laboriously set up a goal instead of getting it in there quickly. I wish I knew what the game plan were trying to implement is because Mooney, though not exactly a genius, had a point..we aren’t direct. Is this what Bevo wants ( a continuation of handball club) or our default game style?

I wish I knew what the Bailey Smith plan was. I don’t think he was as poor in recent weeks as was made out but he was down on the weekend which may be what happens when the media decide to helpfully query his mental health thereby creating a problem with his mental health. But please Woofers no talk of trading him! He’s a point of difference in a slow midfield and our future. I just don’t see how he’s developing OR contributing in his current role.

[Boots]

In one passage of play that sticks in my mind when the game was still winnable one of our players handpassed to Bont who was just outside 50 but slipped over. The Pies were away of course.

I clearly remember this and it really confused me. Why did Bont fall over at that moment? It seemd so unforced and bizarre. Our players often struggle to keep their feet but there was a lot of slipping and falling on Friday night when the pies seemed really sure-footed. Are we as clumsy as we feel?

Sometimes it seems to be failed tackles, sometimes it's a result of every mark being a pack mark. But sometimes we just... fall over. Is it positive identification error to say it happens more often to us than it does to other teams?


3. Our rucks are struggling. Time to make a call and give Lobb a rest. Don't care who he is, no-one should be able to play as poorly as he is and retain his place - 1 mark and 9 hit-outs doesn't the mustard. He provides next to no contest. Time to bring in Sweet and have him do the majority of the tap work. Have Tim play a different manner of game - a la Max Gawn. Play close to goal and provide better contest for any outnumbers that result when our forwards head off to greener pastures down back.

What is Lobb for? Why has this highly-paid and broadly capable player come to us and dropped off immediately? Why can't we figure out what to do with him, when we had such a clear reason to recruit him?

[bornadog]

I clearly remember this and it really confused me. Why did Bont fall over at that moment?

Even if he didn't slip, it was a poor pass (I think West) and it went way over his head. It was the wrong option to kick it to Bont anyhow.

[1eyedog]

Even if he didn't slip, it was a poor pass (I think West) and it went way over his head. It was the wrong option to kick it to Bont anyhow.

I thought it was the right option as Bont was free and it opened up the corridor it was just poorly executed. Even if he didn't slip it would have went way over his head.

I think Bont read the flight really quickly and what should have been a lace out pass on the chest turned into a 50/50 scramble. Lots of anxiety when you miss a target like that in the middle of the ground.

[Grantysghost]

Even if he didn't slip, it was a poor pass (I think West) and it went way over his head. It was the wrong option to kick it to Bont anyhow.

It's like goal kicking. Miss the target you aren't playing well.
Two parts.
Work yourself into good positions to execute.
Execute.

We aren't doing the second.

[azabob]

Even if he didn't slip, it was a poor pass (I think West) and it went way over his head. It was the wrong option to kick it to Bont anyhow.

Yep. This was right in front of me. Bont had to suddenly stop and prop and lost both his footing entirely.

[jeemak]

It's possibly an example of why we're conservative with the ball. Both times Bont fell over in the last, in the middle of the ground there was suspect aggressive decision making and poor execution, and both times it happened we got scored against immediately.

Why do we seem to fall over a lot? I think it's got to do with handballing behind the runner because of poor execution or a lack of confidence/ quick thinking in taking the option in the first place, kicking the footy on the head of the leading player and not in front of them.

We need our link players to be first touch/ one touch players who cleanly take the ball and quickly get it into the hands of the movers, and they just aren't quite up to that standard a lot of the time.

[Mantis]

I wish I knew what the Bailey Smith plan was. I don’t think he was as poor in recent weeks as was made out but he was down on the weekend which may be what happens when the media decide to helpfully query his mental health thereby creating a problem with his mental health. But please Woofers no talk of trading him! He’s a point of difference in a slow midfield and our future. I just don’t see how he’s developing OR contributing in his current role.

His 2 previous games he's had 19 touches against North which included 15 handballs and a total of 22m gained, WTF!... and then 16 touches against Freo when he was just ok in a convincing win.

He seems to be a little lost in the role he's playing, and could do with some more midfield minutes, like in the last qtr, but it's the same role he played in the 2021 finals series when he was brilliant, and he isn't helping his chances by his half-arsed efforts such as the poor chase against Hill.

As per other comments in other threads he's an extremely important player to us going forward, but this version of Bailey isn't helping us win games of footy and we need a circuit breaker.

[Boots]

It's possibly an example of why we're conservative with the ball. Both times Bont fell over in the last, in the middle of the ground there was suspect aggressive decision making and poor execution, and both times it happened we got scored against immediately.

Why do we seem to fall over a lot? I think it's got to do with handballing behind the runner because of poor execution or a lack of confidence/ quick thinking in taking the option in the first place, kicking the footy on the head of the leading player and not in front of them.

We need our link players to be first touch/ one touch players who cleanly take the ball and quickly get it into the hands of the movers, and they just aren't quite up to that standard a lot of the time.

I think my all-time favourite thing about this website is how often I learn things when people reply to my posts.