Bankers & Anchors: Rnd 17, 2023 vs Collingwood

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

This is the Round 17, 2023 edition of the weekly Bankers and Anchors thread. Once this evening's game against Collingwood is concluded post your nominations for:

The Bankers = 3 guys/aspects of the game that we banked on to do the right thing during the game
The Anchors = 3 guys/aspects of the game that weighed us down by their errors or poor play

Please limit it to no more than three of each player or aspect of the game, but feel free to make honourable/dishonourable mentions. As usual try to make it constructive criticism.

Try and restrict it to individual players rather than aspects of the overall match - I will allow more freedom now as the thread seems to be going down more of the aspects of the game path so you can have 3 for each made up of aspects of the game and individual players.

The thread is named in honour of a popular WOOF Contributor, The Banker, who passed away on 22/04/2012 after a six month battle with cancer.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Bankers

1 Jamarra's work rate and marking

2. Naughton's marking and finishing.

3. Caleb Daniel was the most polished of our mids

Anchors

1. Our midfield switching off - at clearances, and when Collingwood won ball out of the backline and starting running through the lines. Just flatfooted.

2. English- horrible performance tonight.

3. Jamarra's goalkicking - just has to improve this aspect

[westbulldog]

Bankers
Caleb Daniel, excellent game opposed to the likely Brownlow medallist.
Ryan Gardner what a courageous game playing injured.
Naughton and JUH worked together well.

Anchors
Duryea, not up to it imo.
Keath, barely up to it.
Brian Taylor on Fox, Ch 7, whatever, the point is he is an ex Collingwood player and it shows with biased commentary.

[anfo27]

Bankers
1. JUHs hands.
2. Westy good user inside 50
3. Naughton looks like he's close to finding some top shelf form

Anchors
1. McNeil- has to kick those, just has to!
2. Duryea- not sure he is up to it
3. Smiths form, need more from him

[azabob]

Bankers
Caleb Daniel, excellent game opposed to the likely Brownlow medallist.
Ryan Gardner what a courageous game playing injured.
Naughton and JUH worked together well.

Anchors
Duryea, not up to it imo.
Keath, barely up to it.
Brian Taylor on Fox, ex Collingwood player and it shows with biased commentary.

WB, fox take the channel 7 feed and Taylor is a channel 7 commentator

[Dry Rot]

Bankers

Daniel's game

JUH, Naughton and Weightman

West. Has learnt to be unselfish and made mostly very good decisions.

Anchors

Tackling, or more correctly, not tackling

Stupid over the shoulder, blind hand passing

Stupid Oh, I'm in trouble. I'll hand pass it to someone in a worse position plays.

Our midfield and captain

[bornadog]

2. English- horrible performance tonight.

I can't agree with this.

Tim 17 disposals, 6 marks and 30 Hitouts of which 17, yes 17 HTA. Cameron had 5 more hitouts and only 10 HTA?

[GVGjr]

I can't agree with this.

Tim 17 disposals, 6 marks and 30 Hitouts of which 17, yes 17 HTA. Cameron had 5 more hitouts and only 10 HTA?

Stats don't always tell the story. Other than quoting stats what in particular did you find positive about his game?
Other than a good last quarter I don't think he really contributed that much.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I can't agree with this.

Tim 17 disposals, 6 marks and 30 Hitouts of which 17, yes 17 HTA. Cameron had 5 more hitouts and only 10 HTA?

Those stats don't surprise me, but his point of difference is rarely his pure ruckwork. His great value to the way we play is what he contributes around the ground. And other than a couple of strong inputs in the last qtr, when it was too late, I thought he was inconsequential. He really should've owned Cameron around the ground and helped our mids to establish our game.

[Grantysghost]

English didn't have an influence on the result unfortunately.

[bornadog]

English didn't have an influence on the result unfortunately.

Was it a horrible performance?

[Grantysghost]

Was it a horrible performance?

No way!

Decent. Just didn't do his 1 wood well, around the ground and dropping in to dangerous spots to clunk the mark.

[bornadog]

No way!

Decent. Just didn't do his 1 wood well, around the ground and dropping in to dangerous spots to clunk the mark.


well if you read my comment to YHF I thought he was a bit harsh.
Also English clearly won ruck rules. 17 out of 30 hitouts were HTA, which is rarely done in AFL.
Agree he could have done more around the ground

We all see things differently

[GVGjr]

Bankers

- Our 3 prominent forwards last night looked very threatening. They did their best to keep us in it and Marra's marking was sensational.
- Despite the brain fade I thought Poulter showed he is a more than capable player. I'm bullish on his future.
- Richards return was particularly pleasing and Gardner's courage in playing through the discomfort was noticeable.

Anchors

- Unlocking whatever is blocking Bailey Smith's performances is a critical step for the coaches. We need him back to his best.
- Despite a decent performance last week JOD is just not ready yet and we need to get him back at Footscray.
- Probably the worst game from Treloar in a long while.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

well if you read my comment to YHF I thought he was a bit harsh.
Also English clearly won ruck rules. 17 out of 30 hitouts were HTA, which is rarely done in AFL.
Agree he could have done more around the ground

We all see things differently

Yeah my 'horrible performance' was over the top in the heat of the moment.
I just expected Tim to really be a big factor in us challenging the Pies last night around the ground, and he wasn't.

[Grantysghost]

Bankers

- Our 3 prominent forwards last night looked very threatening. They did their best to keep us in it and Marra's marking was sensational.
- Despite the brain fade I thought Poulter showed he is a more than capable player. I'm bullish on his future.
- Richards return was particularly pleasing and Gardner's courage in playing through the discomfort was noticeable.

Anchors

- Unlocking whatever is blocking Bailey Smith's performances is a critical step for the coaches. We need him back to his best.
- Despite a decent performance last week JOD is just not ready yet and we need to get him back at Footscray.
- Probably the worst game from Treloar in a long while.

Re Smith, Lipinski plays the exact same role for the Pies and was more effective. No stand out however played the role well.

It's a shame we couldn't sell the same role to him.

Bailey just can't get involved from there needs to be running off the other mids.

[JanLorMill]

well if you read my comment to YHF I thought he was a bit harsh.
Also English clearly won ruck rules. 17 out of 30 hitouts were HTA, which is rarely done in AFL.
Agree he could have done more around the ground

We all see things differently

There are hit to advantage then there hits to certain scoring opportunity. I can’t remember any English taps to us where our player wasn’t under instant pressure. Certainly none like De Goey ones.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

English should be torching the likes of Cameron and Cox. He's just not a good ruck, I'm not sure how much more evidence we need. Unless he's influencing around the ground, he has no influence.

He wasn't horrible but it wasn't a good enough performance in a big game and that's tbeen the trend with him.

[Scorlibo]

Yeah my 'horrible performance' was over the top in the heat of the moment.
I just expected Tim to really be a big factor in us challenging the Pies last night around the ground, and he wasn't.

He was a bit off with his ground level game. A few intercepted handballs, that last centre clearance where the ball skewed off the side of his boot. A bit like Bontempelli, he has his chances to impact the game but didn't take them.

Bankers

Skillful, exciting first half football - thoroughly enjoyed watching our first half, and in particular one passage of play where we went the length of the ground with four beautiful kicks. I think it was Macrae, JUH, English and West, ending with Naughton. We looked really intent on scoring off rebound, and our defenders did well to provide that opportunity.

Forward triple threat - really impressive displays from all three of the guns up forward. We looked so much more threatening with those three going to work in a paddock of space compared to Lobb and others clogging it up. There's still some room for improvement, with a bit of confusion around who was going up, Weightman getting pantsed one on one vs Quaynor, and Jamarra's goalkicking letting us down once more.

Poulter - once he worked out which team he was playing for he had an impact, the goal was great (bit of a shame the game was dead), used his legs to drive out of traffic a couple of times, and looked okay marking under pressure.

Anchors

Midfield - our mids looked panicky around clearance for the first three and a half quarters. I don't mind the quick bomb if there's no handball option but they've got to get better distance on the kick. Treloar was the worst culprit. Collingwood by comparison made us look like witches hats. Daicos made it look easy, he's so agile, and killed us with those 15 metre handballs forward to a player that was out. Might have been a set play, and something we need to look at ourselves.

Umpires - couldn't buy a HTB decision in the second half. Jamarra front on contact or chopping of the arms, take your pick, no idea how that doesn't get paid.

Second quarter conversion - we don't have the killer instinct that we had in 2021. We could have gone 5+ goals up on them in that second quarter but squandered opportunity after opportunity. Then they have a quick patch in time on and all of a sudden the margin is 5 points. Proved to be the difference.

[hujsh]

Re Smith, Lipinski plays the exact same role for the Pies and was more effective. No stand out however played the role well.

It's a shame we couldn't sell the same role to him.

Bailey just can't get involved from there needs to be running off the other mids.

I didn't even realise he was playing until the last quarter. He left to play midfield and now he's not in the midfield because they have better players there just like we do. He's a somewhat limited forward who wants to get CBA time but isn't quite good enough in the best teams. Good on him for trying.

[bornadog]

Bankers

1. JUH and Naughton's marking, a pleasure to watch those two.

2. Gardner, played a solid game, is tough as nails and backed himself to take a few marks.

3. Weightman is a real opportunist and when he gets that opportunity he takes it. A bit of an anchor -Was disappointed he missed the goal from in front in the last as he is a great set shot.

Anchors

1. Ed's running across the backline and then giving the ball direct to the opposition to goal - does this alot and must really think about what the hell is he doing.

2. Umpires - totally inconsistent with HTB, chopping arms and they don't bother with 50 metre penalty when infringing in the protected zone.

[macca]

English should be torching the likes of Cameron and Cox. He's just not a good ruck, I'm not sure how much more evidence we need. Unless he's influencing around the ground, he has no influence.

He wasn't horrible but it wasn't a good enough performance in a big game and that's tbeen the trend with him.

The tap to Degoey in the center square pretty much summed up English as a ruckman at that moment .Degoey gets a clearance ,goes to Pies fwd and results in a goal.

Cameron is no way an elite ruckman , but he does his job and halves the contest

We needed to win that contest to stop the run of goals.

When it was his time to step up and ask thr midfield tobwin a contest it was lacking

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Stats don't always tell the story. Other than quoting stats what in particular did you find positive about his game?
Other than a good last quarter I don't think he really contributed that much.

I saw Tim's opponents at ball ups under the fall of the ball and him in second position too often.
His body language was angst filled it seemed, a bit overwrought.
Knocks not to advantage.

[bornadog]

The tap to Degoey in the center square pretty much summed up English as a ruckman at that moment .Degoey gets a clearance ,goes to Pies fwd and results in a goal.

Cameron is no way an elite ruckman , but he does his job and halves the contest

We needed to win that contest to stop the run of goals.

When it was his time to step up and ask thr midfield tobwin a contest it was lacking

The harsh's critics of English are Bulldog supporters.

[bornadog]

Stats don't always tell the story. Other than quoting stats what in particular did you find positive about his game?
Other than a good last quarter I don't think he really contributed that much.

Ruck work and around the ground 17 disposals, took some vital marks in the backline at times

[D Mitchell]

I saw Tim's opponents at ball ups under the fall of the ball and him in second position too often.
His body language was angst filled it seemed, a bit overwrought.
Knocks not to advantage.

I agree. Freo did the same last week. Lobb coped better, he was able to force the obstructing ruckman back and at least get his hand to the ball.

[GVGjr]

Ruck work and around the ground 17 disposals, took some vital marks in the backline at times

He also got out marked in the back line.
Stats wise his game looked reasonable but he really wasn't a factor for us.

He really did try his best though and ran the game out trying to make an impact.

[bornadog]

He also got out marked in the back line.
Stats wise his game looked reasonable but he really wasn't a factor for us.

He really did try his best though and ran the game out trying to make an impact.

I am not saying he was fantastic but he wasn't poor either. Anyhow YHF has explained his comment and I agree with that.

[Scorlibo]

The hitouts to advantage stats are a good reflection of how the ruck duel played out in my view. Cameron had maybe a couple of decisive taps that linger in the mind, but Collingwood's overall stoppage dominance was due to their mids' quick feet, quick reflexes and clean hands. From my seat, English clearly won the battle in the ruck, but agree with others that he was down on usual output around the ground, including getting outmarked by Cameron on one occasion.

[macca]

The harsh's critics of English are Bulldog supporters.

It’s a results based industry
I am not trying to be critical even if that may read it that way
It’s being able to seize the moment , and grab the momentum back for your team

[BornInDroopSt'54]

The harsh's critics of English are Bulldog supporters.

Fuuny about that.

[Ozza]

Bankers:

Weightman - In his draft we wanted Pickett, but thought we would get Weightman. I wouldn't trade. Cody is a gun.

Jamarra - looking every bit the gun forward we hoped to draft. Some of his chases, and then doubling back to be the option once we won the ball back were terrific. At 21 years old, he is probably ahead of time in terms of where 6"5 forwards are at.

Poulter - showed enough to suggest he is a good mid year pick up. Enjoyed seeing him pretty poised and brave, stepping through or around traffic to get to his left.

Anchors:

Treloar - loves a 50cm handball to someone else who is under pressure. Thought his game was very very poor.

Duryea - I was an advocate for keeping him in as we have needed his experience down back. Unfortunately his form is starting to overshadow the experience by too much.

Bevo/Coaches - I'm not sure from where Bevo gets the nerve to go to the presser and say we got done for pace, while leaving Bailey Smith as a forward most of the night. In stages we had Rhylee West on a wing match up on J Daicos, are you kidding me?

[EasternWest]

Bankers:

Weightman - In his draft we wanted Pickett, but thought we would get Weightman. I wouldn't trade. Cody is a gun.

Jamarra - looking every bit the gun forward we hoped to draft. Some of his chases, and then doubling back to be the option once we won the ball back were terrific. At 21 years old, he is probably ahead of time in terms of where 6"5 forwards are at.

Poulter - showed enough to suggest he is a good mid year pick up. Enjoyed seeing him pretty poised and brave, stepping through or around traffic to get to his left.

Anchors:

Treloar - loves a 50cm handball to someone else who is under pressure. Thought his game was very very poor.

Duryea - I was an advocate for keeping him in as we have needed his experience down back. Unfortunately his form is starting to overshadow the experience by too much.

Bevo/Coaches - I'm not sure from where Bevo gets the nerve to go to the presser and say we got done for pace, while leaving Bailey Smith as a forward most of the night. In stages we had Rhylee West on a wing match up on J Daicos, are you kidding me?

I reckon we'd be happy if we had Pickett too but yeah, Weightman is awesome and I also don't have to defend any dog acts like Melbourne fans would do.

Edit: on top of that Weightman is so naturally likeable he's a Marketer's wet dream.

[Grantysghost]

I reckon we'd be happy if we had Pickett too but yeah, Weightman is awesome and I also don't have to defend any dog acts like Melbourne fans would do.

My Melbourne mates are ready to send him to Casey. Apparently been stinking it up.

[EasternWest]

My Melbourne mates are ready to send him to Casey. Apparently been stinking it up.

This sparks joy.

[Ozza]

My Melbourne mates are ready to send him to Casey. Apparently been stinking it up.

4 out of his last 7 he's had 6 touches or less. Probably the plight of a small forward at times and he's obviously a good player.

Cody has 25 goals from 12 games this year coming off an interrupted pre-season and injured to start the year, Pickett 22 goals from 14 having missed 2 with suspension. Both going pretty well at this stage of their careers. Cody's aerial and lead up marking ability make him more versatile.

[mjp]

The tap to Degoey in the center square pretty much summed up English as a ruckman at that moment .Degoey gets a clearance ,goes to Pies fwd and results in a goal.

Wasn't that as much down to De Goey's mid craft vs Liber as the tap?

I mean, the tap went where it was supposed to go but De Goey should have NEVER been able to spit through onto his right side.

[Grantysghost]

Wasn't that as much down to De Goey's mid craft vs Liber as the tap?

I mean, the tap went where it was supposed to go but De Goey should have NEVER been able to spit through onto his right side.

Spit through : you are such a coach!

I think our midfield is very one paced. Down hill skiers almost.
We beat up on the average midfields get found wanting against the best.
We've changed things, taken a two time AA out of the mix completely and I don't think it's mattered much. Caleb has just become our best mid almost.

Do we over rate the Bont effect?

[bornadog]

Do we over rate the Bont effect?

Even when he has had a down night:

Bont vs Pies:



29 touches
equal game high 15 contested
game high 8 tackles
27 pressure acts
10 score involvements (#2 highest)
416 metres gained
equal team high 5 inside 50?s
6 clearances, 4 from centre
equal game high 11 ground ball gets
5 marks
4 intercepts
4 one %?ers

[Grantysghost]

Even when he has had a down night:

Bont vs Pies:



29 touches
equal game high 15 contested
game high 8 tackles
27 pressure acts
10 score involvements (#2 highest)
416 metres gained
equal team high 5 inside 50?s
6 clearances, 4 from centre
equal game high 11 ground ball gets
5 marks
4 intercepts
4 one %?ers


27 pressure acts!

[bornadog]

27 pressure acts!

I thought you may like that one :D

[azabob]

Spit through : you are such a coach!

I think our midfield is very one paced. Down hill skiers almost.
We beat up on the average midfields get found wanting against the best.
We've changed things, taken a two time AA out of the mix completely and I don't think it's mattered much. Caleb has just become our best mid almost.

Do we over rate the Bont effect?

If anything this board under rates what Bontempelli does.

[Grantysghost]

Even when he has had a down night:

Bont vs Pies:



29 touches
equal game high 15 contested
game high 8 tackles
27 pressure acts
10 score involvements (#2 highest)
416 metres gained
equal team high 5 inside 50?s
6 clearances, 4 from centre
equal game high 11 ground ball gets
5 marks
4 intercepts
4 one %?ers


He went at 59 percent DE.

I feel he's gone more inside and we aren't better off for it.
He's too good for that.

[Grantysghost]

If anything this board under rates what Bontempelli does.

No that's Libba! Bont gets more love than any player ever in the history of the Bulldogs.

If you said Macrae I'd be with you.

[azabob]

No that's Libba! Bont gets more love than any player ever in the history of the Bulldogs.

If you said Macrae I'd be with you.

Bont is held responsible every time we lose.

Look at his stats from Friday night and the focus is on his two missed goals. Its kinda crazy.

For mine its a case of we focus on what he can't do, rather than what he can do.

[EasternWest]

Do we over rate the Bont effect?

Yeah nah.

[Grantysghost]

Bont is held responsible every time we lose.

Look at his stats from Friday night and the focus is on his two missed goals. Its kinda crazy.

For mine its a case of we focus on what he can't do, rather than what he can do.

Surely you jest.

More love than Woodstock.

Doubt any one blamed him for the loss.

He did muff many disposals though.

If you're quoting me stats from a guy who was in the guts all night I start to nod off.

Yes Bont is the best ever he gets paid the most etc etc.

We can ask questions though.

[GVGjr]

Bont is held responsible every time we lose.

Look at his stats from Friday night and the focus is on his two missed goals. Its kinda crazy.

For mine its a case of we focus on what he can't do, rather than what he can do.

We do rightly hold him at the elite level but I think most would agree that he does miss some clutch goals.
We shouldn't really complain though.

[Grantysghost]

Yeah nah.

How dare thee!

[jeemak]

No that's Libba! Bont gets more love than any player ever in the history of the Bulldogs.

If you said Macrae I'd be with you.

If anything Libba gets too much of a free pass in my view.

[Mantis]

If anything Libba gets too much of a free pass in my view.

Yep... he's pretty much invisible in ''broken'' play and lots of his clearances are hack kicks/ handballs to anywhere/ anyone.

[Grantysghost]

If anything Libba gets too much of a free pass in my view.

That's why the good teams tag him?

[bornadog]

Yep... he's pretty much invisible in ''broken'' play and lots of his clearances are hack kicks/ handballs to anywhere/ anyone.

Wasn't just him with the hack handballs. Lots of stupid over the head handballs on Friday to no one or Pies player- trying to be too tricky eg Keath who promptly turned it over.

[Grantysghost]

Wasn't just him with the hack handballs. Lots of stupid over the head handballs on Friday to no one or Pies player- trying to be too tricky eg Keath who promptly turned it over.

Libba is the most under rated player in the comp and it's seeped in to woof since the GF.

Not sure it's from people who go to the games though ;)

[EasternWest]

Surely you jest.

More love than Woodstock

Woodstock is the underrated piece in the Snoopy puzzle.


We can ask questions though.

True dat

[azabob]

We can ask questions though.

We can ask questions, no problem and the biggest one should be on Bonts goal kicking.

But to infer he is overrated and Daniel is our best midfielder is a step too far.

[Grantysghost]

We can ask questions, no problem and the biggest one should be on Bonts goal kicking.

But to infer he is overrated and Daniel is our best midfielder is a step too far.

Fair enough.

I don't think that btw.

Bont is the best.

[jeemak]

That's why the good teams tag him?

Have you considered that tagging someone might be dependent on whether they are more susceptible to a tag versus others?

[Grantysghost]

Have you considered that tagging someone might be dependent on whether they are more susceptible to a tag versus others?

For sure good point.

Also because they are the most damaging.

#jesuislibba

Daicos had 11 clearances.
Libba had 11.

Bont was next best with 6.

[Grantysghost]

I actually don't like Harmes. Like some kind of visceral thing with him.

However.

I'd consider recruiting him as a stopper.

He was awesome v Libba in 2020?

[westbulldog]

Some of the criticisms of Bontempelli and Liberatore this year compared with their massive contributions this year is beyond the pale imo. Are they expected to have 3 brownlow votes every game ? give it a break.

[Bulldog Joe]

Some of the criticisms of Bontempelli and Liberatore this year compared with their massive contributions this year is beyond the pale imo. Are they expected to have 3 brownlow votes every game ? give it a break.
I don't ever actually criticise either, but I would absolutely prefer us winning games every week.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Have you considered that tagging someone might be dependent on whether they are more susceptible to a tag versus others?

You are suggesting it works.
I haven't noticed but will look.

[jeemak]

You are suggesting it works.
I haven't noticed but will look.

Possibly, but at the same time if your role is see ball, extract ball, then it's pretty one-dimensional. Super important, but less complicated.

[AshMac]

We do rightly hold him at the elite level but I think most would agree that he does miss some clutch goals.
We shouldn't really complain though.

It?s because he is so elite that we complain about the misses.

The goal kicking is tricky though - he consistently misses goals from directly infront <35m out and it simply isn?t good enough. Isn?t the only one

[1eyedog]

Bont's a star. Our equal second best player ever. Enjoy him.

[Jeanette54]

Bont's a star. Our equal second best player ever. Enjoy him.

My Grandad always said Alan Hopkins was our best ever, unbelievable ball control. My vote is, of course, with EJ. Just curious where your best ever Bulldog status lies.

[1eyedog]

My Grandad always said Alan Hopkins was our best ever, unbelievable ball control. My vote is, of course, with EJ. Just curious where your best ever Bulldog status lies.

This is just my opinion based on what my Dad has told me and he was a rabid fan through the E.J era. I'm 50 so never saw him play but from how my Dad explained it to me and just looking the accolades and achievements he received, especially the bit about being named captain of the VFL / AFL team of the century, for me, Ted Whitten is our best ever player. He's the Bradman of the Bulldogs and may never be topped.

I concede that his legacy grows and distorts our perception and I understand that many have Bont as our best because of his current exploits and we have a front row seat right now. The B&F he won in a Premiership year means he's definitely in the conversation, but my Dad said E.J could do all the Bont things but he also always nailed the clutch moments and did things to win the game when the team needed it and he did them regularly. Maybe that's what sets him apart from second.

Looking over all the lists of the greatest ever players Carey, Matthews, Albert Snr are always top 5 in the lists and so is Whitten. It's the opinion of most that he was one of the best handful of players ever. So he's still number 1 for me.

I have Grant and Bont at 2 but I'm bias as I only started going to games in 1978 when we moved to Footscray. Number 3 is much harder for me as I really struggle to split Dougie and Johnno because I'm still emotionally attached to them for different reasons and can't make a decision. Johnno's AA captain year when he booted 70 something as a 5'11 full forward may get him across the line.

1978-1980 Kelvin Templeton was better than anyone btw Carey included.

[bornadog]

This is just my opinion based on what my Dad has told me and he was a rabid fan through the E.J era. I'm 50 so never saw him play but from how my Dad explained it to me and just looking the accolades and achievements he received, especially the bit about being named captain of the VFL / AFL team of the century, for me, Ted Whitten is our best ever player. He's the Bradman of the Bulldogs and may never be topped.

I concede that his legacy grows and distorts our perception and I understand that many have Bont as our best because of his current exploits and we have a front row seat right now. The B&F he won in a Premiership year means he's definitely in the conversation, but my Dad said E.J could do all the Bont things but he also always nailed the clutch moments and did things to win the game when the team needed it and he did them regularly. Maybe that's what sets him apart from second.

Looking over all the lists of the greatest ever players Carey, Matthews, Albert Snr are always top 5 in the lists and so is Whitten. It's the opinion of most that he was one of the best handful of players ever. So he's still number 1 for me.

I have Grant and Bont at 2 but I'm bias as I only started going to games in 1978 when we moved to Footscray. Number 3 is much harder for me as I really struggle to split Dougie and Johnno because I'm still emotionally attached to them for different reasons and can't make a decision. Johnno's AA captain year when he booted 70 something as a 5'11 full forward may get him across the line.

1978-1980 Kelvin Templeton was better than anyone btw Carey included.

You have summed up this well and seems same for me, although I am little older than you, but pre 70s, I was only a little kid so don't remember too much. I too still have Grant as number 1, but Bont is closing in rapidly. EJ, I have to take everyone's word for his performance.