What type of Players do we need to bridge the Gap?

[bornadog]

Following on from last night's performance what type of players do we need to bridge the gap to get to top 4.

Collingwood have some speedsters that we just couldn't catch - so is this the area we need to focus on, or do posters have a different view?

I think the need for speed should be a focus. The Forward line of Naughton, JUH and Weightman is fine but the other three HF roles need to be fast pressure forwards who can also contribute with scoring. The other areas are speedy wings and backline. Yes we have JJ to come back, but his career is coming to an end as is Duryea's.

[jeemak]

Mid sized players/ flankers/ wingers who are quick, are willing to take the game on, and can kick.

[bulldogtragic]

Forward. Depends on if Arty & Clarke make the grade. I hope they do. I like Lohmann from Brisbane as a fast small forward too.

What Jeemak said. Also need a KPD, maybe intercepting type too as I’d look at moving on Keath, Bruce, Croz & TOB.

Need a replacement for Duryea too.

[bornadog]

Forward. Depends on if Arty & Clarke make the grade. I hope they do. I like Lohmann from Brisbane as a fast small forward too.

What Jeemak said. Also need a KPD, maybe intercepting type too as I’d look at moving on Keath, Bruce, Croz & TOB.

Need a replacement for Duryea too.

With KPD, JOD and Buss are the future but it may take another few years. So maybe a Barass type for now.

[bulldogtragic]

With KPD, JOD and Buss are the future but it may take another few years. So maybe a Barass type for now.

We need someone for the now. 100%.

[macca]

We don’t need more fringe type players , we need our current list to be able to coached :
1. Stop run of play where they kick 2 goals . More stoppages and defensive mindset
2. Reduce fumbles
3. More Fwd line pressure and being able to crumb
4. Goal kicking
5. Being able to execute in the moment

This comes down to coaching

[bornadog]

We don’t need more fringe type players , we need our current list to be able to coaches :
1. Stop run of play where they kick 2 goals . More stoppages and defensive mindset
2. Reduce fumbles
3. More Fwd line pressure and being able to crumb
4. Goal kicking
5. Being able to execute in the moment

This comes down to coaching

Mate, we just didn't have the players that had the ability to catch the fast moving Pies players. They have genuine speed that we don't.

[macca]

Mate, we just didn't have the players that had the ability to catch the fast moving Pies players. They have genuine speed that we don't.

Can our players be taught to run faster ? If not then there is some series list pruning we need to do

I know it’s a sum of while moving parts to get playing list improvement , either our playing list does not have what it takes ie speed and/or we are not coaching them to beat oppositions strengths ie, their speed

But Goal kicking skills is killing us

[Mofra]

Someone to slow down the D50 exits. Quaynor and Noble killed us last night. Arty filled the role for a while but just isn't physically ready to do it for a full season (yet).

[bornadog]

Can our players be taught to run faster ? If not then there is some series list pruning we need to do

I know it’s a sum of while moving parts to get playing list improvement , either our playing list does not have what it takes ie speed and/or we are not coaching them to beat oppositions strengths ie, their speed

But Goal kicking skills is killing us

Exactly we need to prune at least 8 players and bring in players. If you don't have speed, then you just don't have it. Coaching won't make you faster.

Goal kicking didn't kill us last night, they had similar issues with multiple misses (Cox at least twice)

[macca]

Exactly we need to prune at least 8 players and bring in players. If you don't have speed, then you just don't have it. Coaching won't make you faster.

Goal kicking didn't kill us last night, they had similar issues with multiple misses (Cox at least twice)
Only 7 players we need to prune , we have VDM speed for another 2 seasons ( we just got to find a footballer in him)
Pun intended

[Bulldog Joe]

Mate, we just didn't have the players that had the ability to catch the fast moving Pies players. They have genuine speed that we don't.

That is a cop out.
We need to maintain our best pressure and never give an easy out.
There were occasions where we just didn't make the effort and that is why their speedster got away.
We need a no excuses approach.

[Bulldog Joe]

Exactly we need to prune at least 8 players and bring in players. If you don't have speed, then you just don't have it. Coaching won't make you faster.

Goal kicking didn't kill us last night, they had similar issues with multiple misses (Cox at least twice)

Actually Coaching speed is achievable.
Do you think Usain Bolt was quickest without coaching input.

Speed is a skill that can be improved with coaching.

[bornadog]

That is a cop out.
We need to maintain our best pressure and never give an easy out.
There were occasions where we just didn't make the effort and that is why their speedster got away.
We need a no excuses approach.

Not a cop out at all. Were you at the ground? The TV doesn't show the full picture.

Players were chasing but these guys are fast and they moved the ball quickly. Just ask the other 17 clubs.
Guys like West are not quick enough to hold the ball in our fwd50.


Actually Coaching speed is achievable.
Do you think Usain Bolt was quickest without coaching input.

Speed is a skill that can be improved with coaching.

Sure you can improve but if you don't have natural speed you can only go so far.

[Bulldog Joe]

Not a cop out at all. Were you at the ground? The TV doesn't show the full picture.

Players were chasing but these guys are fast and they moved the ball quickly. Just ask the other 17 clubs.
Guys like West are not quick enough to hold the ball in our fwd50.



Sure you can improve but if you don't have natural speed you can only go so far.

I wasn't there last night but on TV I saw an absolute half hearted chase by Bailey Smith on Bobby Hill. Hill just kept running because there was no pressure. It had much more to do with intent than speed.
Almost immediately after Bailey Williams just let a Collingwood player run off with the ball unchallenged.
Again that is intent.

Adding speed will not help unless there is intent.

[bulldogtragic]

I wasn't there last night but on TV I saw an absolute half hearted chase by Bailey Smith on Bobby Hill. Hill just kept running because there was no pressure. It had much more to do with intent than speed.
Almost immediately after Bailey Williams just let a Collingwood player run off with the ball unchallenged.
Again that is intent.

Adding speed will not help unless there is intent.

Your post reminds me of the argument that we weren’t tall enough twenty years ago, so we traded/drafted to become the actual tallest team in the league. We got in Rawlings, Condos, Street, Koops, Veale & Morgan (in addition to ‘soft floors’ Cooney and ‘solid games’ Ray).

[Bulldog Joe]

Your post reminds me of the argument that we weren’t tall enough twenty years ago, so we traded/drafted to become the actual tallest team in the league. We got in Rawlings, Condos, Street, Koops, Veale & Morgan (in addition to ‘soft floors’ Cooney and ‘solid games’ Ray).

So I am arguing we trade for intent?

[bulldogtragic]

So I am arguing we trade for intent?

Dunno. Maybe? :D

Being tall then didn’t fix things. I guess being quick now doesn’t necessarily fix things. Players who can actually use that attribute of speed with intent, as a more than capable player is what’s needed. Brad Lynch was super quick, unfortunately not much of a footballer. Same for McNeil. Most players in the Grand Final sprint aren’t that handy as a generalisation. Perhaps speed and high tackle numbers for the position they play is a better gauge. We can draft and trade the quickest players this year, but if they don’t have the intent or ability to use it, what’s the point? I think you make a valid point.

[anfo27]

I know English has a good year but I keep thinking about 2021 when we started the year with Martin in there. Our midfield was awesome. How much better would Bont, libba & the likes would be if you had a beast in there who could put it down the throat of our mids? Oliver & Petracca are gun players but how much better are they knowing Gawn is in there putting it where ever he wants.

I think English wants to go back to WA & the price he will command to keep him is 7 figures. Do we really want to pay that much for a ruck that doesn't make our mids better in the centre square?

What are the options?

Could Darcy be a number 1 ruck that rests forward? Could be pick up someone like Preuss who will cut from the giants at the end of the year? He will be cheap as he keeps getting injured but if he can get on the park is aggressive in the contest.

[Hot_Doggies]

We need two first round quick and skilful mids.

[bulldogtragic]

I know English has a good year but I keep thinking about 2021 when we started the year with Martin in there. Our midfield was awesome. How much better would Bont, libba & the likes would be if you had a beast in there who could put it down the throat of our mids? Oliver & Petracca are gun players but how much better are they knowing Gawn is in there putting it where ever he wants.

I think English wants to go back to WA & the price he will command to keep him is 7 figures. Do we really want to pay that much for a ruck that doesn't make our mids better in the centre square?

What are the options?

Could Darcy be a number 1 ruck that rests forward? Could be pick up someone like Preuss who will cut from the giants at the end of the year? He will be cheap as he keeps getting injured but if he can get on the park is aggressive in the contest.

Mega trade Freo, English for Darcy…

I can’t quite accept the dollars needed. I wouldn’t want Sam Darcy anywhere near the first ruck. So we are limited because all our chips are all on Tim. Probably back to the drawing board and wish we had say, an AA ruck traded to us with salary paid last year.

It’s not about Tim per se now, it’s the contract. And I just don’t see how we try to justify that wage and cap space. But it will make for a long and interesting discussion until it’s resolved!

[anfo27]

Mega trade Freo, English for Darcy…

I can’t quite accept the dollars needed. I wouldn’t want Sam Darcy anywhere near the first ruck. So we are limited because all our chips are all on Tim. Probably back to the drawing board and wish we had say, an AA ruck traded to us with salary paid last year.

It’s not about Tim per se now, it’s the contract. And I just don’t see how we try to justify that wage and cap space. But it will make for a long and interesting discussion until it’s resolved!

English for Darcy, not bad, i like the thought.

What about English to the eagles & then trade Lobb & something to Melbourne for Grundy. The 2 ruckman for Melbourne ain't working.

[bulldogtragic]

English for Darcy, not bad, i like the thought.

What about English to the eagles & then trade Lobb & something to Melbourne for Grundy. The 2 ruckman for Melbourne ain't working.

Eagles you say - for Barass & Pick 19 or better a Future Second (Pick 19 next year) and done extra draft points this year - something like that?

I don’t think Lobb or Grundy will go anywhere. If Tim goes, I don’t have a clue right now how we address it. The club thinks it’s still in the window so we need a good ruckman in their prime. Not sure who is gettable. If we didn’t get anyone decent, then perhaps the window closes and it’s more proper rebuild than refresh to contend.

The time for Grundy was last year. But the club only heard Jeemak on the trade Dunkley part and not trade in Grundy part.

[Sedat]

The time for Grundy was last year. But the club only heard Jeemak on the trade Dunkley part and not trade in Grundy part.
It was discussed ad nauseum during last year's trade period, but the irony of the Grundy and Lobb trades is that Grundy was traded to fix a problem that his new club didn't have, and his arrival has now created new problems that didn't previously exist. And Lobb was traded to a club that already has a far superior (and younger) version of him without actually fixing the glaring hole he was specifically brought in to fill (not his fault, he is what he is).

The game has changed and our game plan looks for all the world like it is off the pace with the new trends. Only Adelaide look like they are adopting anything similar to the Pies. The likes of Richmond, Port, Brisbane and the Dogs are focused on turnover goals and territory dominance, while the Pies have moved to D50 transitions with speed as well as well as dramatically improving their clearance and stoppage game (much cleaner clearances than ours, which look good on the stats sheet but aren't as damaging on the scoreboard). We do need leg speed across the board - I would scour the competition for players who are underperforming at their current clubs but who have genuine pace. Could someone like a Petrucelle be worth a cheap trade? He's under-performed at West Coast for a few years now but is it him (lack of skill, poor decision making) or is it lack of continuity in a position and also playing at a non-competitive team? I would also look at Bailey Dale's role at the club and see if we can bring his leg speed and elite ball use forward of centre where it can be more damaging on the scoreboard. Could he play an inside/outside game akin to Nick Daicos, or is he purely an outside attacking weapon (something he's awesome at)?

It feels like we are going to be thereabouts but never really near the top end if we don't tweak the personnel or game plan. I thought Friday night was sobering - the top seed gave us a start and then smashed on 12 goals out of 13 in the middle stages and then put the cue in the rack. We never stopped working hard but for mine the close margin just confirmed we are a 5-10 team and not a top 4 team as we claim to be in the window for.

[Bulldog4life]

I know English has a good year but I keep thinking about 2021 when we started the year with Martin in there. Our midfield was awesome. How much better would Bont, libba & the likes would be if you had a beast in there who could put it down the throat of our mids? Oliver & Petracca are gun players but how much better are they knowing Gawn is in there putting it where ever he wants.

I think English wants to go back to WA & the price he will command to keep him is 7 figures. Do we really want to pay that much for a ruck that doesn't make our mids better in the centre square?

What are the options?

Could Darcy be a number 1 ruck that rests forward? Could be pick up someone like Preuss who will cut from the giants at the end of the year? He will be cheap as he keeps getting injured but if he can get on the park is aggressive in the contest.

I think you are guessing there on both fronts. He has bought a property in Port Melbourne and is happy living in Melbourne by all reports. We all haven't got a clue what his next contract will be either.

[Bigdog]

Too many holes in the list this season, teams like Collingwood and port are too slick with ball movement.

I think we can get it right next year to be really competitive. The holes I see are:

Outside Runners - I like Henry, sounds like we are a very good chance there. He slots in on a wing day one and costs sweet fa from trade collateral perspective. He looks like a faster less physical lachie hunter to me. I think Gallagher and Bendendo have bright futures also. No doubt in my mind that both would’ve had significant game time this year had they not had interrupted seasons.

Could also consider trading up for Colby McKercher in the draft. He will help fill a void with the aging midfield. He will play round 1 probably in a half forward role.

Small Forward - I’d trade up in the draft and get Nick Watson. He will change the dynamic of this forward line. Alternatively we have Clarke and Arty developing. However I’m not sold on Clarke and Arty seems more a high forward with his running capability.

Quality Key Defenders that intercept - I think we have these on the list, they’re just not ready this season. Give Busslinger and JOD a pre season and they will both be serious players based on what we have seen at VFL. They both intercept. So I think patience is the key on this line. Also when we get access to Croft we should train him up as a key defender.

I don’t think we need to look outside our back yard here.

Lockdown Small Defender - We see to be getting burnt by small/medium forwards week in week out. Elliot, Walters, Rohan and Pickett have all played really well against us. We need a reliable player to combat this and take over from Duryea. Cleary is the obvious one but we really need to give him AFL experience this year to ready him for next. Hopefully he gets a run of games in the lead up to finals. I’ve been really happy with VDM at half back coming in off a interrupted season. His learning the position well.

Powerful Midfielder - I’d be checking in on the availability of Elijah Hollands from GC. He seems like the obvious option. Otherwise there wouldn’t be much out there on a recruitment front. If there is nothing available on a recruitment front we should really consider running either Naughton or JUH through for short stints just to change the dynamic at times.

Then in future we will need to address our aging midfield. I’m not as concerned by others on this front. It’s really 3 players we need to replace. Treloar is the easiest as it’s a simple swap for Smith. Libba and Macrae are the others. Think we just focus our 2024 Draft Collateral and beyond on Midfielders (or even Colby McKercher 2023 Draft who looks like Zac butters to me).

[anfo27]

I think you are guessing there on both fronts. He has bought a property in Port Melbourne and is happy living in Melbourne by all reports. We all haven't got a clue what his next contract will be either.

Of course I am guessing, thats why I said 'I think'. He has a house in Perth as well doesn't he? His partner also plays in WA. So just guessing

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

There has been an over indulgence in the recruitment of taller players now at the expense of smaller quicker players. We have two quick defenders in Dale and Richards.
Apart from Treloar we lack genuine pace in the midfield.
We lack a quality small player who can kick goals.
Both Collingwood and Port Adelaide are ladder leaders because their mix of players is better with more speedier players in their line ups.

[ledge]

Jones is a huge loss . He is what we are missing.

[anfo27]

It was discussed ad nauseum during last year's trade period, but the irony of the Grundy and Lobb trades is that Grundy was traded to fix a problem that his new club didn't have, and his arrival has now created new problems that didn't previously exist. And Lobb was traded to a club that already has a far superior (and younger) version of him without actually fixing the glaring hole he was specifically brought in to fill (not his fault, he is what he is).

The game has changed and our game plan looks for all the world like it is off the pace with the new trends. Only Adelaide look like they are adopting anything similar to the Pies. The likes of Richmond, Port, Brisbane and the Dogs are focused on turnover goals and territory dominance, while the Pies have moved to D50 transitions with speed as well as well as dramatically improving their clearance and stoppage game (much cleaner clearances than ours, which look good on the stats sheet but aren't as damaging on the scoreboard). We do need leg speed across the board - I would scour the competition for players who are underperforming at their current clubs but who have genuine pace. Could someone like a Petrucelle be worth a cheap trade? He's under-performed at West Coast for a few years now but is it him (lack of skill, poor decision making) or is it lack of continuity in a position and also playing at a non-competitive team? I would also look at Bailey Dale's role at the club and see if we can bring his leg speed and elite ball use forward of centre where it can be more damaging on the scoreboard. Could he play an inside/outside game akin to Nick Daicos, or is he purely an outside attacking weapon (something he's awesome at)?

It feels like we are going to be thereabouts but never really near the top end if we don't tweak the personnel or game plan. I thought Friday night was sobering - the top seed gave us a start and then smashed on 12 goals out of 13 in the middle stages and then put the cue in the rack. We never stopped working hard but for mine the close margin just confirmed we are a 5-10 team and not a top 4 team as we claim to be in the window for.

Agree with you. Maybe Grundy & Melbourne both admit its not a good match at seasons end once they bomb out of finals. Really if we think Tim won't sign on we should be looking for a trade. Lobb in Melbourne colours & Grundy in the tri colours makes both teams more balanced & stronger.

[AshMac]

Deleted. Posted twice on train w patchy service

[AshMac]

We don’t need more fringe type players , we need our current list to be able to coached :
1. Stop run of play where they kick 2 goals . More stoppages and defensive mindset
2. Reduce fumbles
3. More Fwd line pressure and being able to crumb
4. Goal kicking
5. Being able to execute in the moment

This comes down to coaching

I agree completely the issue is coaching. There were 2 blatant differences between the teams I noticed at the ground,

1. Collingwood defensive setup from our kick ins. They closed all space and had players marked, created perceived pressure on the goal kick and the next 2 kicks. There was a period in the second quarter when we couldn?t kick out of our defensive zone for 10 minutes. Their forward pressure was incredibly effective. We on the other hand guard blades of grass and allow at least 2 easy kicks out of defence every week and rely on pressure further up the ground.

2. The speed of ball movement - not speed of players. Every! Single! Week! We have stale ball movement end to end - kick, mark, wait, kick backward, wait, congestion at every option. I blame this in part on D grade players exiting defence - O?Brien, Keath, Gardiner - or transitioning through the middle - McNeil, Scott etc - (these guys just don?t trust themselves to execute high risk) but in part to our game plan and low risk footy. The result is that extra few seconds every disposal allowing the other team to close gaps and a tendency to avoid higher risk disposals - e.g into the corridor - and thus taking a much longer route to goal.

I think both the port Adelaide and Collingwood games were winnable. The core difference between both top teams and us was point 2. Port straight through the corridor, pies switch and down the wing.

There are other factors - agree pies were a lot fitter than us and their end to end movement was simply brilliant. They had their key players stand up too. But the ability to negate at a team level is a coachable game plan.

[bornadog]

I agree completely the issue is coaching. There were 2 blatant differences between the teams I noticed at the ground,

1. Collingwood defensive setup from our kick ins. They closed all space and had players marked, created perceived pressure on the goal kick and the next 2 kicks. There was a period in the second quarter when we couldn?t kick out of our defensive zone for 10 minutes. Their forward pressure was incredibly effective. We on the other hand guard blades of grass and allow at least 2 easy kicks out of defence every week and rely on pressure further up the ground.

2. The speed of ball movement - not speed of players. Every! Single! Week! We have stale ball movement end to end - kick, mark, wait, kick backward, wait, congestion at every option. I blame this in part on D grade players exiting defence - O?Brien, Keath, Gardiner - or transitioning through the middle - McNeil, Scott etc - (these guys just don?t trust themselves to execute high risk) but in part to our game plan and low risk footy. The result is that extra few seconds every disposal allowing the other team to close gaps and a tendency to avoid higher risk disposals - e.g into the corridor - and thus taking a much longer route to goal.

I think both the port Adelaide and Collingwood games were winnable. The core difference between both top teams and us was point 2. Port straight through the corridor, pies switch and down the wing.

There are other factors - agree pies were a lot fitter than us and their end to end movement was simply brilliant. They had their key players stand up too. But the ability to negate at a team level is a coachable game plan.

So based on your post, we don't need a particular type of player to bridge the gap with the top sides. It is a game plan issue?

[GVGjr]

So based on your post, we don't need a particular type of player to bridge the gap with the top sides. It is a game plan issue?

Like all teams we could do with a variety of players to come in and add depth or quality in a few positions but it's looking like our game plan or match selections aren't stacking up in the bigger games.
Our weak percentage highlights some problems but we added Lobb, Jones and Baker and haven't really improved on last year.

[bornadog]

Like all teams we could do with a variety of players to come in and add depth or quality in a few positions but it's looking like our game plan or match selections aren't stacking up in the bigger games.
Our weak percentage highlights some problems but we added Lobb, Jones and Baker and haven't really improved on last year.

So, again, you don't think we need any particular type of player for next year?

Collingwood have some really fast players that are hard to stop. Yes, they do move the ball quickly, but they have the leg speed that we don't. Our speedsters like VDM, McNeil are not in the same league, West is slow. Yes we miss JJs pace but he is also getting on.

I also believe we are too tall and don't understand why we needed JOD in. Cleary should have come in.

We have been competitive against Port, Geelong, Collingwood but are just that 10% off and it is not just coaching (they must share responsibility as well), it is the type of players we have.

[jeemak]

I think we kick shallow/ near/ skinny side into the forward line rather than more aggressively to space up the corridor or fat side because the coaches are trying to protect our defence from the quick exit which we're not great at defending for a range of reasons.

Additionally, you need players who are both competent and confident in executing aggressive ball movement from defence via the corridor - and we've seen that we can do that with JJ in full flight and on occasion with Dale and Ed executing well but each of those guys have their issues in execution. Our coaches in my view direct ball movement to be conservative due to our defficiencies in the defencive half.

[mjp]

So, again, you don't think we need any particular type of player for next year?



I don't.

Unless you mean some players who will CONCENTRATE when it matters...If Collingwood are too fast for us, why did they look so slow for the first 20 minutes of the game?

Saying it's the game-plan simply ignores the fact that when we execute it we score against the best teams in the comp...and we are really hard to score against. Jones is a pretty big out for us right now and clearly covers up a few 'ills' that the likes of Alex Keath are unable to, but even so...just CONCENTRATE through the forward/mid zone and make it hard for them.

If we're going to switch our brains off for 15 minutes then it wont matter what players we bring in...

[bornadog]

I don't.

Unless you mean some players who will CONCENTRATE when it matters...If Collingwood are too fast for us, why did they look so slow for the first 20 minutes of the game?

Saying it's the game-plan simply ignores the fact that when we execute it we score against the best teams in the comp...and we are really hard to score against. Jones is a pretty big out for us right now and clearly covers up a few 'ills' that the likes of Alex Keath are unable to, but even so...just CONCENTRATE through the forward/mid zone and make it hard for them.

If we're going to switch our brains off for 15 minutes then it wont matter what players we bring in...

Fine, can't dispute that.

So based on that, we have a Premiership winning team but we can't execute for 100% of game time.

Personally, I don't think we have 22 players that are all best 22 and that are able to win the premiership, even if we are missing Jones and JJ. We are close, but not quiet there.

[GVGjr]

So, again, you don't think we need any particular type of player for next year?

Collingwood have some really fast players that are hard to stop. Yes, they do move the ball quickly, but they have the leg speed that we don't. Our speedsters like VDM, McNeil are not in the same league, West is slow. Yes we miss JJs pace but he is also getting on.

I also believe we are too tall and don't understand why we needed JOD in. Cleary should have come in.

We have been competitive against Port, Geelong, Collingwood but are just that 10% off and it is not just coaching (they must share responsibility as well), it is the type of players we have.

I've said for a while we need a genuine ruckman on the list but that's not likely to happen. A quality quick midfielder would be a good addition but the list really isn't the issue.

Regarding the bolded section, you are mistaking players heights as a problem when really in the case of JOD it's more of a selection issue. If JOD was performing it wouldn't matter one bit if he was 197cm tall or 187cm. He plays more like a 190cm player than a 197cm player anyway.
He's not playing poorly because of his height, it's because he's not ready and hasn't run himself into form like he might if he had been given an extended run at Footscray. That comes down to coaches, development and our selection process.

If it's now the type of players we have (the 2nd bolded bit) and not really the coaches I know a few people here think we don't quite cut into the list enough and perhaps that is now becoming a bit more evident.

[bornadog]

I've said for a while we need a genuine ruckman on the list but that's not likely to happen. A quality quick midfielder would be a good addition but the list really isn't the issue.

Regarding the bolded section, you are mistaking players heights as a problem when really in the case of JOD it's more of a selection issue. If JOD was performing it wouldn't matter one bit if he was 197cm tall or 187cm. He plays more like a 190cm player than a 197cm player anyway.
He's not playing poorly because of his height, it's because he's not ready and hasn't run himself into form like he might if he had been given an extended run at Footscray. That comes down to coaches, development and our selection process.

If it's now the type of players we have (the 2nd bolded bit) and not really the coaches I know a few people here think we don't quite cut into the list enough and perhaps that is now becoming a bit more evident.

I picked on JOD because Collingwood don't have a tall forward line and in hindsight a smaller player should have taken his spot.

Anyway, this thread is to see what posters feel we need in the future in order to be a top 4 side. Of course it goes off track like many threads, but that is natural and can't be helped.

[AshMac]

So based on your post, we don't need a particular type of player to bridge the gap with the top sides. It is a game plan issue?

That is correct. I thought I made that clear when I said I completely agree the issue is coaching

[Bulldog Joe]

I am totally on not needing anything extra except the intent to perform for the full game.
We talk about game plan and personnel, but I believe our list is good enough to contend.
We have been consistent only in our inconsistency and we need to bring our best ALL of the time

[macca]

I've said for a while we need a genuine ruckman on the list but that's not likely to happen. A quality quick midfielder would be a good addition but the list really isn't the issue.

Regarding the bolded section, you are mistaking players heights as a problem when really in the case of JOD it's more of a selection issue. If JOD was performing it wouldn't matter one bit if he was 197cm tall or 187cm. He plays more like a 190cm player than a 197cm player anyway.
He's not playing poorly because of his height, it's because he's not ready and hasn't run himself into form like he might if he had been given an extended run at Footscray. That comes down to coaches, development and our selection process.

If it's now the type of players we have (the 2nd bolded bit) and not really the coaches I know a few people here think we don't quite cut into the list enough and perhaps that is now becoming a bit more evident.

We have a ruck man , it?s Sweet but his not a hybrid ruck man that can run all day and spend 90% tog
So either we need to have a game plan to suit Sweet limitations or we just use him as backup
Honestly , I am finding this discussion very frustrating as we are talking about either players not executing or developing to the way we like to , Inorder to become a top 4 team .

Maybe we do have the players , they are not developing to the way they are being coached or fitting into the game plan

I can give heaps of examples , but geez if we had one of the Daicos to kick those goals when they matter , Elliott or Hill to always seem to be in right areas. Quaynor who just seems to find heaps of space and be there on the bad kick out .

[AshMac]

We have a ruck man , it?s Sweet but his not a hybrid ruck man that can run all day and spend 90% tog
So either we need to have a game plan to suit Sweet limitations or we just use him as backup
Honestly , I am finding this discussion very frustrating as we are talking about either players not executing or developing to the way we like to , Inorder to become a top 4 team .

Maybe we do have the players , they are not developing to the way they are being coached or fitting into the game plan

I can give heaps of examples , but geez if we had one of the Daicos to kick those goals when they matter , Elliott or Hill to always seem to be in right areas. Quaynor who just seems to find heaps of space and be there on the bad kick out .

We do have those players (except for a permanent small speedy forward) IMO - we just don?t have the best game plan for our players or the ability to pivot our game plan inside 4 qtrs and adapt to a game in the moment. For god sake can we start tagging players at centre bounces when they get on a 40 minute tear!

What we do with sweet is interesting. He is a good tap ruckman but honestly may as well not be on the ground at other times. I honestly think I?d prefer Lobb over sweet.