Dreamers pick kids - AKA let's not over-react at selection this week...

[mjp]

Right.

Big game vs Essendon ahead.

Over the past two weeks our effort has been #AWESOME. (Hopefully we can agree).
Our energy and general will to compete has been #AWESOME.
Our ability to connect the lines has - at times - been #HORRIBLE.
Our ability to defend in transition has wavered between #AWESOME and #HORRIBLE...with the #HORRIBLE moments seemingly all being bunched together (well, they were on my TV set).

I have seen calls for Gallagher and Busslinger etc to debut this week. I sincerely don't think this is the time. Right now, we need to DOUBLE DOWN with the team who has performed pretty well without getting the results over the 3-weeks since the bye. West plays, Garcia plays etc. You can say what you will but if we choose NOW to blow it up and it goes awry, well...I don't think that's smart coaching or responsible team selection.

This game is IMPORTANT. We are only a couple of 'details' away from getting it right, and we have (I simply HAVE to believe this) been working on those details since November. Have we got them right yet? Well, clearly we haven't. But sticking fat and believing that with every small failure comes a small learning...and therefore the turnaround comes CLOSER.

I know this is probs not going to be a popular post as there is a lot of pent up frustration right now, but tipping all of the toys out of the cot in search of the next great saviour? That's NOT the answer. Right now, our team is our team. Stay the course. Believe we are good enough to beat Essendon (we are). And go out and get the job done.

[anfo27]

Agree with everything except 'we've been working on those details since November'. Proof is in the pudding. Only the Collingwood game did i see a side committed to moving the ball quickly & taking the game on. No surprise its the best our forward line has looked all year. Our forwards need this game style to flourish. Why is it so important against Collingwood & not an issue any other week?

[MrMahatma]

Don’t disagree. However, would it really be that bad a call to play Buss over Keath?

[mjp]

Don’t disagree. However, would it really be that bad a call to play Buss over Keath?

I'm going with dreamers pick kids.

If you want to pick Buss (who I am reliably informed is called Buzzzzzz) over Keath then go for it. But don't tip all the toys out. So you make a change - great...no need to make 5. Saying the team is suddenly going to be changed with Busslinger, Gallagher, Cleary, Khamis and Jones? I'm not there yet.

[mjp]

Agree with everything except 'we've been working on those details since November'.

As I said mate, "I simply HAVE to believe this".

There's no other thing rn but to trust and support...

[anfo27]

As I said mate, "I simply HAVE to believe this".

There's no other thing rn but to trust and support...

Honestly mjp, you coach, does it seem to you that the pies game it was an emphasis to play that way & not an emphasis for any other game?

[whythelongface]

Whilst I get what you are saying about keeping the relative same line up there needs to be some change to say ‘what you are dishing up is just not good enough’. Sure 5 changes is probably too much and throwing in a 19 year old underdone key defender is probably not advisable but we need to make some change. Players need to be rewarded for effort in the 2’s especially if those in the 1’s are playing below expectations. There are a couple of forced changes for JOD and McNeil but on top of that maybe 1 or 2 more - Khamis deserves his chance and he is no worse than others who have been selected but in the end we will probably go with Lobb and Bruce. We need to do something to enable us to win.

[The Doctor]

Right.

Big game vs Essendon ahead.

Over the past two weeks our effort has been #AWESOME. (Hopefully we can agree).
Our energy and general will to compete has been #AWESOME.
Our ability to connect the lines has - at times - been #HORRIBLE.
Our ability to defend in transition has wavered between #AWESOME and #HORRIBLE...with the #HORRIBLE moments seemingly all being bunched together (well, they were on my TV set).

I have seen calls for Gallagher and Busslinger etc to debut this week. I sincerely don't think this is the time. Right now, we need to DOUBLE DOWN with the team who has performed pretty well without getting the results over the 3-weeks since the bye. West plays, Garcia plays etc. You can say what you will but if we choose NOW to blow it up and it goes awry, well...I don't think that's smart coaching or responsible team selection.

This game is IMPORTANT. We are only a couple of 'details' away from getting it right, and we have (I simply HAVE to believe this) been working on those details since November. Have we got them right yet? Well, clearly we haven't. But sticking fat and believing that with every small failure comes a small learning...and therefore the turnaround comes CLOSER.

I know this is probs not going to be a popular post as there is a lot of pent up frustration right now, but tipping all of the toys out of the cot in search of the next great saviour? That's NOT the answer. Right now, our team is our team. Stay the course. Believe we are good enough to beat Essendon (we are). And go out and get the job done.

Darcy, McNeill and JOD have been ruled out. Who replaces them? Some of those young fellas have form.

[bornadog]

Darcy, McNeill and JOD have been ruled out. Who replaces them? Some of those young fellas have form.

If we stay with the OPs Philosophy, then Lobb, Baker and McLean come in.

Make no mistake, our luck has run out with other teams also losing. Lose this and we are out of the 8.

Hell every poster wanted to drop Lobb last week for Darcy and look how that turned out.

[Grantysghost]

Darcy, McNeill and JOD have been ruled out. Who replaces them? Some of those young fellas have form.

Darcy - > Lobb is a no brainer
JOD hmmmm Dons don't have many talls I'd go for a smaller player maybe upgrade Garcia from sub.
McNeil well he can't be replaced but Baker comes in, also Khamis needs to be rewarded.

Maybe Khamis as the sub that can impact either end late.

So in : Garcia, Lobb, Baker, Khamis (sub).

[azabob]

Darcy - > Lobb is a no brainer
JOD hmmmm Dons don't have many talls I'd go for a smaller player maybe upgrade Garcia from sub.
McNeil well he can't be replaced but Baker comes in, also Khamis needs to be rewarded.

Maybe Khamis as the sub that can impact either end late.

So in : Garcia, Lobb, Baker, Khamis (sub).

Why not consider Khamis as Darcy replacement. Let English ruck 90% of game time.
Khamis is too one dimensional to be the sub.

[Mantis]

Darcy, McNeill and JOD have been ruled out. Who replaces them? Some of those young fellas have form.

Given his form, or lack thereof you would think that Doc needs to be replaced too.

[ledge]

Right.

Big game vs Essendon ahead.

Over the past two weeks our effort has been #AWESOME. (Hopefully we can agree).
Our energy and general will to compete has been #AWESOME.
Our ability to connect the lines has - at times - been #HORRIBLE.
Our ability to defend in transition has wavered between #AWESOME and #HORRIBLE...with the #HORRIBLE moments seemingly all being bunched together (well, they were on my TV set).

I have seen calls for Gallagher and Busslinger etc to debut this week. I sincerely don't think this is the time. Right now, we need to DOUBLE DOWN with the team who has performed pretty well without getting the results over the 3-weeks since the bye. West plays, Garcia plays etc. You can say what you will but if we choose NOW to blow it up and it goes awry, well...I don't think that's smart coaching or responsible team selection.

This game is IMPORTANT. We are only a couple of 'details' away from getting it right, and we have (I simply HAVE to believe this) been working on those details since November. Have we got them right yet? Well, clearly we haven't. But sticking fat and believing that with every small failure comes a small learning...and therefore the turnaround comes CLOSER.

I know this is probs not going to be a popular post as there is a lot of pent up frustration right now, but tipping all of the toys out of the cot in search of the next great saviour? That's NOT the answer. Right now, our team is our team. Stay the course. Believe we are good enough to beat Essendon (we are). And go out and get the job done.

It’s more that we are running out of defenders , ODonnell and Darcy out, we have to make two changes, what have we got left in the twos ? I was hoping JJ might come back in. But we need another tall down back, Lobb ? Otherwise it’s Bruce who hasn’t been good at all this year. Busslinger has shown a bit, one new one isn’t a throw the baby out with the bath water.

[mjp]

Honestly mjp, you coach, does it seem to you that the pies game it was an emphasis to play that way & not an emphasis for any other game?

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking?

Are you saying we played well vs Collingwood or poorly? And what specific 'emphasis to play that way' do you mean?

I thought what we did vs Collingwood was not that dis-similar to what we have done most weeks...we're a good team and don't really get beaten badly...we just need to tidy up some of the errors to turn close losses (Syd, Pies, GC, PAx 2, Geelong) into wins. We haven't lost by > 22 points since R#2 and in fact our losses have been -14, -7, -22, -22, -12, -2...this is why we are all frustrated because we are literally INCHES away.

[Mantis]

I thought what we did vs Collingwood was not that dis-similar to what we have done most weeks...we're a good team and don't really get beaten badly...we just need to tidy up some of the errors to turn close losses (Syd, Pies, GC, PAx 2, Geelong) into wins. We haven't lost by > 22 points since R#2 and in fact our losses have been -14, -7, -22, -22, -12, -2...this is why we are all frustrated because we are literally INCHES away.

I'm not sure we are, we're a team that can compete with anyone in the competition and can take it right up to them and even dominant for periods, but good teams perform more consistently throughout a game than we do so we're just a competitive team.

[Danjul]

Darcy - > Lobb is a no brainer
JOD hmmmm Dons don't have many talls I'd go for a smaller player maybe upgrade Garcia from sub.
McNeil well he can't be replaced but Baker comes in, also Khamis needs to be rewarded.

Maybe Khamis as the sub that can impact either end late.

So in : Garcia, Lobb, Baker, Khamis (sub).

Selecting kids is what has put us in this situation.

Darcy was rushed in to save the team, the season, someone?s reputation. Choose one or more. He has had serious injuries and hasn?t had time to prepare adequately. He should be developed more carefully than what we have seen so far.

JOD was rushed in after starring in a backyard game at a BBQ? Admittedly he is now a seasoned performer and his 5 possessions a game are helpful.

At least McNeil was a veteran of 40 great games and a vital cog in the well oiled machine. We will all miss his leadership and daring.

Despite these irreplaceable outs I can?t see Essendon getting close. This should be at least a five goal win. If it isn?t someone isn?t doing their job.

[Grantysghost]

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking?

Are you saying we played well vs Collingwood or poorly? And what specific 'emphasis to play that way' do you mean?

I thought what we did vs Collingwood was not that dis-similar to what we have done most weeks...we're a good team and don't really get beaten badly...we just need to tidy up some of the errors to turn close losses (Syd, Pies, GC, PAx 2, Geelong) into wins. We haven't lost by > 22 points since R#2 and in fact our losses have been -14, -7, -22, -22, -12, -2...this is why we are all frustrated because we are literally INCHES away.

MJP I don't agree with the Pies game. I think when they whips were cracking they went up another gear and we had ZERO answers.

It was at Marvel too where they have a poorish record.

From half way through the second (when Johnson marked on the line and English didn't get any body on him) until the 7 min mark of the last it was 11 goals to 1. This was without their leading goal kicker. We had zero answers to a medium forward (Fritsch, Cameron anyone!).

I'm proud of the fightback, it was all she wrote by then though.

[Grantysghost]

Why not consider Khamis as Darcy replacement. Let English ruck 90% of game time.
Khamis is too one dimensional to be the sub.

Makes sense.

[Rocco Jones]

I agree with the general premise of this thread, however a few selection choices perhaps involve inexperienced players being the best choice. Issue as I see it is the balance:
- KPD3 role. We have Gardy and Keath. Who is best alongside them? Buss seems a fair bit more mobile than Bruce. It's a tricky spot, perhaps we go smaller
- Doc's spot. I think I rate his value more than most but he looks cooked. Cleary just seems like a better choice for mine.
- McNeil might be out anyway and Scott not doing much. Gallagher to me seems like a natural wider player. Is whoever he is replacing doing much?
- Buku vs Lobb. Lobb out was a combo of it being a circuit breaker for Lobb and selection integrity I guess. Lobb seemed to do okay at VFL level however Khamis apparently had a better showing. Both versions of R2/fwd.

So I'd see Khamis, Gallagher, Buss and Cleary as the best choices in each individual case. Perhaps as a collective, that's too mcuh inexperience. Lobb comes in instead of Khamis and we wait for another time to debut Gallagher and/or Buss.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'm not sure we are, we're a team that can compete with anyone in the competition and can take it right up to them and even dominant for periods, but good teams perform more consistently throughout a game than we do so we're just a competitive team.

Tend to agree.

Outside of WCE and North, most teams can actually compete with the better teams for a half/maybe three quarters, as we did v Collingwood. It doesn't make them 'good', just 'competitive' for a period of time.

I keep reading we are a good side who need to find a way to put it together, but about 14 other sides could/are saying that. I see no evidence to suggest we are capable of consistently beating top 4 sides and that's been true for almost 2 seasons now.

I agree with MJP's post, but I think this week is the last chance I'd be giving this list before making wholesale changes. Even then, it's pretty clear some should be dropped on form alone (Duryea).

[Mofra]

Don?t disagree. However, would it really be that bad a call to play Buss over Keath?
Buss over Keath? Absolutely a bad call IMO.
Buss as a replacement for JOD? I'd be more comfortable with that.

[Mofra]

I agree with the general premise of this thread, however a few selection choices perhaps involve inexperienced players being the best choice. Issue as I see it is the balance:
- KPD3 role. We have Gardy and Keath. Who is best alongside them? Buss seems a fair bit more mobile than Bruce. It's a tricky spot, perhaps we go smaller
- Doc's spot. I think I rate his value more than most but he looks cooked. Cleary just seems like a better choice for mine.
- McNeil might be out anyway and Scott not doing much. Gallagher to me seems like a natural wider player. Is whoever he is replacing doing much?
- Buku vs Lobb. Lobb out was a combo of it being a circuit breaker for Lobb and selection integrity I guess. Lobb seemed to do okay at VFL level however Khamis apparently had a better showing. Both versions of R2/fwd.

So I'd see Khamis, Gallagher, Buss and Cleary as the best choices in each individual case. Perhaps as a collective, that's too mcuh inexperience. Lobb comes in instead of Khamis and we wait for another time to debut Gallagher and/or Buss.
Darcy's inability to run out the first half well was pretty noticeable, Lobb has a huge tank for a big guy. I'm not convinced Buks can run anywhere near as well as Lobb.

Darcy is out with a hammy, Lobb has had his public whack by getting dropped, seems a pretty easy decision to bring him back in with the acid right on him.

Buss for JOD for me works, I like Buss for Duryea in theory but there is a critical mass of experience that all teams hit at times and we might have hit it last weekend (as per a conversation elsewhere). Is it time for Crozier to get a run again? Who plays on Stringer?

[bornadog]

Darcy's inability to run out the first half well was pretty noticeable, Lobb has a huge tank for a big guy. I'm not convinced Buks can run anywhere near as well as Lobb.

Darcy is out with a hammy, Lobb has had his public whack by getting dropped, seems a pretty easy decision to bring him back in with the acid right on him.

Buss for JOD for me works, I like Buss for Duryea in theory but there is a critical mass of experience that all teams hit at times and we might have hit it last weekend (as per a conversation elsewhere). Is it time for Crozier to get a run again? Who plays on Stringer?

Crozier out for at least another 5 weeks

[Grantysghost]

Crozier out for at least another 5 weeks

He mentioned last round was his goal.

[Boots]

I agree with OP. We're still in top eight, and things are starting to click. We are most likely going out first round of finals at best. "The Kids" have become a way for us to vent frustration at the MC's weird selecitons or the Hannans, McCombs, and McNeils of the world in the Always Right thread - but don't forget how hard it was for Marra and how slowly Darcy is coming along.

I am pretty disillusioned with this side this year, but the problems seem to be mostly system. There have already been improvements, especially in the forward line over the last two games. Don't undersell how much of a change we had to make to accommodate the sudden glut of talls. Some things will click in the last few games, more things won't - and they'll tweak in the offseason and we'll come back harder next year. Playing the kids will just disrupt things.

[azabob]

I agree with OP. We're still in top eight, and things are starting to click. We are most likely going out first round of finals at best. "The Kids" have become a way for us to vent frustration at the MC's weird selecitons or the Hannans, McCombs, and McNeils of the world in the Always Right thread - but don't forget how hard it was for Marra and how slowly Darcy is coming along.

I am pretty disillusioned with this side this year, but the problems seem to be mostly system. There have already been improvements, especially in the forward line over the last two games. Don't undersell how much of a change we had to make to accommodate the sudden glut of talls. Some things will click in the last few games, more things won't - and they'll tweak in the offseason and we'll come back harder next year. Playing the kids will just disrupt things.

I had to pick myself up off the floor when I read your opening sentence or two - I thought for sure you were now 100% great rid of Bevo especially after the Sydney game.

I guess like us all you have have a day or two reflect and not be so emotive.

[Boots]

I had to pick myself up off the floor when I read your opening sentence or two - I thought for sure you were now 100% great rid of Bevo especially after the Sydney game.

I guess like us all you have have a day or two reflect and not be so emotive.

Yep for sure. I get emotive in the game day threads, and the Sydney loss was galling. I have doubts about the team's mentality (always have).

But I think the only time I've been on the 'sack Bevo' train was after the first two weeks. I'm generally sold on the counterargument that his coaching and finals record is excellent, especially compared to other Bulldogs coaches.

I did post a few anti-Bevo videos from Cornes and King and Fox Sports in the 'sharp axes' thread but they were for general interest, not because i agreed with them 100%

[Mantis]

Yep for sure. I get emotive in the game day threads, and the Sydney loss was galling. I have doubts about the team's mentality (always have).

But I think the only time I've been on the 'sack Bevo' train was after the first two weeks. I'm generally sold on the counterargument that his coaching and finals record is excellent, especially compared to other Bulldogs coaches.

I did post a few anti-Bevo videos from Cornes and King and Fox Sports in the 'sharp axes' thread but they were for general interest, not because i agreed with them 100%

Is it though? Sure we've gone on some runs when we've managed to win our first final, but we are 2-4 in EF's under Bevo which isn't amazing.

[JanLorMill]

Is it though? Sure we've gone on some runs when we've managed to win our first final, but we are 2-4 in EF's under Bevo which isn't amazing.
Charlie Sutton has a better finals record 4-3
Ted Whitten 2-1

[Axe Man]

Charlie Sutton has a better finals record 4-3
Ted Whitten 2-1

Out of interest by what measure do you rate Charlie's finals record better than Bevo's?

[JanLorMill]

Out of interest by what measure do you rate Charlie's finals record better than Bevo's?
Sorry My bad I was looking only EFs. Bevo 7-5