Should we make a play for Ben Mckay

[bornadog]

Bruce is down, Keath is on his last legs, Jones is a risk, Buzz is 19 years old, JOD is 20.

We need a tall KPD and Ben is only 25 years old and has shown ability in the past?

Not sure the cost, but he is out of contract and a restricted free agent at the end of the year.

[kruder]

Bruce is down, Keath is on his last legs, Jones is a risk, Buzz is 19 years old, JOD is 20.

We need a tall KPD and Ben is only 25 years old and has shown ability in the past?

Not sure the cost, but he is out of contract and a restricted free agent at the end of the year.

Going to Essendon.

I wonder how many concussions Keath has had now? Didn't look much in it, hopefully he is ok but not sure it's worth playing another year for.

[bornadog]

Going to Essendon.

I wonder how many concussions Keath has had now? Didn't look much in it, hopefully he is ok but not sure it's worth playing another year for.

Essendon is speculation and no done deal.

This is Keath's second concussion this year but not sure about other years.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

One would think that the medical staff would have to recommend that Kieth wears a helmet form now on.

Firstly they should put the patient first

Secondly with all the attention on head knocks right now they could leave thongs open for litigation down the track

[GVGjr]

What about McKay have you seen that you think might make him a good fit for us BAD?

Just on some of your observations:
Bruce probably wasn't going to get another year. Keath will be more of a back-up. I'm not sensing that Jones is a risk.
Buss will be better with a full season behind him and so will JOD for that matter.
Darcy could and probably should be played as a back man next year and we have Gards.

I think we can find someone better for the short term if we need to and there will also be some decent prospects in the draft.
The attraction could be that we get McKay for nothing.

[DOG GOD]

Geez we are in serious need of someone like McKay. If jones goes down next year, omg I hate to think.
But he will end up at one of the big 4

[GVGjr]

Geez we are in serious need of someone like McKay. If jones goes down next year, omg I hate to think.
But he will end up at one of the big 4

Not sure about that. Speculation is he is heading to Essendon :)

[DOG GOD]

Not sure about that. Speculation is he is heading to Essendon :)
One thing is for sure, he won’t go to Carlton. Maybe the twins have the same agreement. Won’t play against eachother and won’t play with eachother.

And if he does go to Essendon he will have to fake 2 injuries a year for when they play the blues.

[bornadog]

What about McKay have you seen that you think might make him a good fit for us BAD?

Just on some of your observations:
Bruce probably wasn't going to get another year. Keath will be more of a back-up. I'm not sensing that Jones is a risk.
Buss will be better with a full season behind him and so will JOD for that matter.
Darcy could and probably should be played as a back man next year and we have Gards.

I think we can find someone better for the short term if we need to and there will also be some decent prospects in the draft.
The attraction could be that we get McKay for nothing.

We will be relying on very inexperienced players if Jones goes down. Gards can't do it all.

[GVGjr]

We will be relying on very inexperienced players if Jones goes down. Gards can't do it all.

But what about McKay appeals to you?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

No.

McKay is bog ordinary.

[bornadog]

But what about McKay appeals to you?

He is available and a role we need. Can take a decent mark and defend on talls. Was ranked 6th for contested marks last year. Has missed some games this year due to injury and he is the right age, ie not youngand not old either, but just reaching his peak as a tall.

[GVGjr]

He is available and a role we need. Can take a decent mark and defend on talls. Was ranked 6th for contested marks last year. Has missed some games this year due to injury and he is the right age, ie not youngand not old either, but just reaching his peak as a tall.

I've only looked at McKay a few times this year and he was ordinary but it doesn't mean he's like that in all games.
Is he really a good mark? With the way defenders chip the ball around to each other now looking at the stats can be misleading.
I think we need a player who can intercept and if that is McKay then great.

[lemmon]

He is available and a role we need. Can take a decent mark and defend on talls. Was ranked 6th for contested marks last year. Has missed some games this year due to injury and he is the right age, ie not youngand not old either, but just reaching his peak as a tall.

I think Ben's a pretty decent key back, and an upgrade on what we have right now outside of L Jones, but some of the media chat has been that he's looking somewhere between 700-800k. Good on him if he can get anywhere near that, but I'd hope we're sensible enough to have priced ourselves out of the conversation if that figure is accurate.

[GVGjr]

I think Ben's a pretty decent key back, and an upgrade on what we have right now outside of L Jones, but some of the media chat has been that he's looking somewhere between 700-800k. Good on him if he can get anywhere near that, but I'd hope we're sensible enough to have priced ourselves out of the conversation if that figure is accurate.

It's a good point and I might be more enthused if there was a chance a more reasonable financial offer would be sufficient.

[Sedat]

I'm very underwhelmed by this bloke. He's won 8 games in his entire career and had too often shown lack of basic defensive nous re: positioning and a lack of effort/desperation. At the money he is (allegedly) demanding, let him rot at the sprung floors of The Hanger - his W/L won't be climbing too much.

[bornadog]

I'm very underwhelmed by this bloke. He's won 8 games in his entire career and had too often shown lack of basic defensive nous re: positioning and a lack of effort/desperation. At the money he is (allegedly) demanding, let him rot at the sprung floors of The Hanger - his W/L won't be climbing too much.

No problems with that, but, I think we need someone else to come in while Buzz and JOD develop.

[bulldogtragic]

For FA KPDs, I’d prefer to throw the coin at Himmelberg, personally.

[Mofra]

For FA KPDs, I’d prefer to throw the coin at Himmelberg, personally.
Yes.
Ben McKay hasn't make it through a season yet has he?
For his price, he's meh.

I hope we are looking at mature KPDs (again).
BZT is a little undersized but a very competent no 2 KPD.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

No problems with that, but, I think we need someone else to come in while Buzz and JOD develop.

We have wasted too much time in drafting players like Bruce Keath O’Brien and Gardner with limited success from weaker Clubs and the thought of adding another in McKay is a concern. Our best players apart from Treloar has come out of the draft system by far

[Scraggers]

For FA KPDs, I’d prefer to throw the coin at Himmelberg, personally.

I'd throw the kitchen sink at Sam Taylor ... I think that he would shore up our backline better than Himmelberg (not that I'd be angry if Himmelberg signed with us)

[azabob]

I'd throw the kitchen sink at Sam Taylor ... I think that he would shore up our backline better than Himmelberg (not that I'd be angry if Himmelberg signed with us)

So would all the other AFL clubs. No way on earth Sam Taylor is coming to the dogs.

Reality is we need to identify and draft our own. We need to get better at this.

GWS, Crows, Melbourne, West Coast, Fremantle all manage to identify key defenders late in drafts and nail the picks.

[GVGjr]

We have wasted too much time in drafting players like Bruce Keath O’Brien and Gardner with limited success from weaker Clubs and the thought of adding another in McKay is a concern. Our best players apart from Treloar has come out of the draft system by far

While I agree that our future should be more focused on drafting players it's also critical that we addressed gaps in the list via trades for experienced players. The likes of Keath and Bruce were good acquisitions that in terms of draft capital we didn't really pay overs for. I'm certainly not against drafting Liam Jones either because he addressed a gap in our drafting.

Getting the balance right is the key though.

[bulldogtragic]

I'd throw the kitchen sink at Sam Taylor ... I think that he would shore up our backline better than Himmelberg (not that I'd be angry if Himmelberg signed with us)


So would all the other AFL clubs. No way on earth Sam Taylor is coming to the dogs.

Reality is we need to identify and draft our own. We need to get better at this.

GWS, Crows, Melbourne, West Coast, Fremantle all manage to identify key defenders late in drafts and nail the picks.

Yep. After pushing out Stringer we had the literal picks to take all of Sam Taylor, Tom De Koning & Noah Balta, and (F2) Nick Foley.

We gave them all away for Josh Schache & Ed Richards.

Like giving up the pick for Curnow two years earlier, we had the chance to take Sam Taylor, and passed on it. I think our time has passed.

How would we be:

Curnow for Naughton
De Koning for Lobb (keeping two x Pick 30’s too)
Balta for Bruce
Taylor for Keath
Naughton for Gardner
* Foley and two second rounders used on Richards replacement

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[bulldogtragic]

B: Dale L. Jones Balta
HB: JJ S. Taylor Daniel
C: Williams Bont Poulter
HF: Treloar JUH Smith
F: Weightman Curnow Naughton
R: English Libba Macrae
Int from: De Koning, Scott, West, S. Darcy, Buss, Arty, Clarke, Foley, JOD, Baker, Gags, etc.
Plus: Pick 30 2022, Pick 28-30 2023

A good winger, quick rebounding HBF, and good small forward or two in that 23 and it’s boarder line unbeatable.

That last day trade in 2017 for Schache & 16 (Richards). Turns out Stringer out was absolutely the right call and the picks were juicy enough. Well, hindsight.

[bulldogtragic]

Enough Sam Taylor revision. Himmelberg is a free agent and $800,000 on at least 5 years is apparently the price to buy him. GWS Will apparently take the compo if it’s first round. With our cap room that’s been my guy to look at. I wouldn’t bet on it happening but I hope we are asking the questions with Esava possibly going to PA and Barass to Sydney and McKay to Dons. We need a mature KPD. He fits it better than McKay to me. We keep our top picks and address our defence. If the plan next year is TOB, Keath, Gardner and a year older Jones and hoping Buss & JOD take a massive leap then I’m not as comfortable that we will improve enough.

As per my percentage thread. In 2016 & 2021 it was our stingy defence in both years that was a common factor. We need to work out how to get the personnel to reduce the 78.25 points per game down to around 70 like in those years. Just on averages, that’s the wins against GCS, GWS & Sydney right there. And equal points for 3rd with Bris & Dees.

So Himmelberg over McKay for me when looking at free agent KPDs.

[azabob]

That last day trade in 2017 for Schache & 16 (Richards). Turns out Stringer out was absolutely the right call and the picks were juicy enough. Well, hindsight.

Hindsight is wonderful. Honestly no regrets on Richards though.

[bulldogtragic]

Hindsight is wonderful. Honestly no regrets on Richards though.

Never made a mistake in hindsight. Richards helps out that equation. Gun.

[bornadog]

So would all the other AFL clubs. No way on earth Sam Taylor is coming to the dogs.

Reality is we need to identify and draft our own. We need to get better at this.

GWS, Crows, Melbourne, West Coast, Fremantle all manage to identify key defenders late in drafts and nail the picks.

Melbourne - Lever and May say hello

[bornadog]

So Himmelberg over McKay for me when looking at free agent KPDs.

Same for me, but gut feel is Himmelberg stays a Giant

[bulldogtragic]

Same for me, but gut feel is Himmelberg stays a Giant

Unless there’s a family reason, it finally looks like an exciting place to be.

We seem to holding our trade activities close to our chest so hopefully there’s a good KPD somewhere in our mix ready to impact next year.

[Mofra]

Hindsight is wonderful. Honestly no regrets on Richards though.
It was the leftover from either Richards or O'Brien, whoever Carlton didn't take
Richards got stuck in traffic, was late for the meeting with Carlton, they took Lachie O'Brien and the rest is history.

[azabob]

Melbourne - Lever and May say hello

Have you raised them as they were trades in? I was thinking Harrison Petty.

[azabob]

It was the leftover from either Richards or O'Brien, whoever Carlton didn't take
Richards got stuck in traffic, was late for the meeting with Carlton, they took Lachie O'Brien and the rest is history.

I’ve always said I love Melbourne traffic!

[bornadog]

Have you raised them as they were trades in? I was thinking Harrison Petty.

Well you said:

Reality is we need to identify and draft our own. We need to get better at this.

GWS, Crows, Melbourne, West Coast, Fremantle all manage to identify key defenders late in drafts and nail the picks.

Even Melbourne had to go and trade in defenders.

Petty was drafted the same year we drafted another defender (at the time) Naughton.

[josie]

I?ve always said I love Melbourne traffic!

Me too-I even swear about it.

A strategy we could use for future drafts presuming the player prefers us, ha ha.

[azabob]

Well you said:


Even Melbourne had to go and trade in defenders.

Petty was drafted the same year we drafted another defender (at the time) Naughton.

Ok thanks for that.

[jeemak]

I'd throw the kitchen sink at Sam Taylor ... I think that he would shore up our backline better than Himmelberg (not that I'd be angry if Himmelberg signed with us)

His dreamy handsomeness would win you and every Bulldog over I'm sure.

[GVGjr]

Speculation that Dougal Howard could be available as the Saints are looking to get into the draft. Nick Coffield is apparently also available for a trade but clearly a more 3rd tall defender type.

[azabob]

Speculation that Dougal Howard could be available as the Saints are looking to get into the draft. Nick Coffield is apparently also available for a trade but clearly a more 3rd tall defender type.

Wonder if Hunter Clark will be back on the table?

I'm not sure Dougal Howard is someone who would add to our defence, only to our frustrations.

[bulldogtragic]

Speculation that Dougal Howard could be available as the Saints are looking to get into the draft. Nick Coffield is apparently also available for a trade but clearly a more 3rd tall defender type.

What’s Howard worth now as a trade?

[bulldogtragic]

Wonder if Hunter Clark will be back on the table?

I'm not sure Dougal Howard is someone who would add to our defence, only to our frustrations.

Now Clark is a little interesting. Depending on a thorough medical.

[GVGjr]

I'm not sure Dougal Howard is someone who would add to our defence, only to our frustrations.

I'd imagine the same with Ben McKay. With Jones in the team next year while Bussliner, JOD and Darcy develop I get the attraction of bringing in an established tall.

[GVGjr]

What’s Howard worth now as a trade?

According to my Saints mate Lyon is over Howard so a 2nd rounder to get him and his contract away from RSEA Park will be sufficient. From memory the Saints gave 2 x 1st rounders to Port for Howard and Ryder.

[bulldogtragic]

According to my Saints mate Lyon is over Howard so a 2nd rounder to get him and his contract away from RSEA Park will be sufficient. From memory the Saints gave 2 x 1st rounders to Port for Howard and Ryder.

They got back a higher first too which they used on Hill.

A F2 and lesser salary… he hasn’t really lived up the expectations there though. Would he do any better with us?

[Mofra]

Speculation that Dougal Howard could be available as the Saints are looking to get into the draft. Nick Coffield is apparently also available for a trade but clearly a more 3rd tall defender type.
Coffield was a bulldog supporter growing up and was taken one pick before Naughton.

Not sure how mobile he is after his ACL.

Howard is a very marginal upgrade on Gardner, hasn't been great this year.

[bulldogtragic]

Coffield was a bulldog supporter growing up and was taken one pick before Naughton.

Not sure how mobile he is after his ACL.

Howard is a very marginal upgrade on Gardner, hasn't been great this year.

I remember Coffield saying he was hoping to slip to us. I don’t think he’s what we need, just never came on and the ACL set things back again.

[GVGjr]

They got back a higher first too which they used on Hill.

A F2 and lesser salary? he hasn?t really lived up the expectations there though. Would he do any better with us?

I'm not sure but I'd be confident that most defenders would look better playing alongside of Liam Jones.

I think he'd be better than McKay but I haven't seen enough of McKay this year to be sure.

[GVGjr]

Coffield was a bulldog supporter growing up and was taken one pick before Naughton.

Not sure how mobile he is after his ACL.

Howard is a very marginal upgrade on Gardner, hasn't been great this year.

I'm not sure on Howard but it's worth noting that he could be available if we were interested.
I'd prefer to draft another KPD but we do need more midfielder types.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm not sure but I'd be confident that most defenders would look better playing alongside of Liam Jones.

I think he'd be better than McKay but I haven't seen enough of McKay this year to be sure.

Howard might need to take a pay cut to $500,000 or less. McKay wants $850,000. If their output is remotely similar then I know who I’d want.

Liam Jones ain’t around for that long G! :)

[GVGjr]

Howard might need to take a pay cut to $500,000 or less. McKay wants $850,000. If their output is remotely similar then I know who I’d want.

Liam Jones ain’t around for that long G! :)

We will get another good year out of Jones and then if we have traded someone in they need to be able to be a strong player for us.
It's why I'd prefer to draft one. Keath will be a back up next year so it will be interesting to see if we bring in someone else or stick with Jones, Gardner, Keath, JOD, Darcy, Busslinger and maybe TOB.

[bulldogtragic]

We will get another good year out of Jones and then if we have traded someone in they need to be able to be a strong player for us.
It's why I'd prefer to draft one. Keath will be a back up next year so it will be interesting to see if we bring in someone else or stick with Jones, Gardner, Keath, JOD, Darcy, Busslinger and maybe TOB.

I see the same problems next year, that we’ve had this year, if we can’t get some good new mature players. As better observers than me post, the mids kick wide and have wide entries into the 50 to reduce turnover and our defence being horribly exposed. If that’s the case, we need some players ready to impact our defence and not have a game plan in effect in spite of our defence.

But it might be slim pickings since we’ve not been linked any yet.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Howard is surely on decent coin. The saints pay through the nose to get anyone through the door.

[GVGjr]

Howard is surely on decent coin. The saints pay through the nose to get anyone through the door.

You're right, apparently 600K a season is what he signed for.
Lyon is trying to follow the Pies lead in that you don't have to be a star player but you do need to work harder than just about everyone else and buy into playing a role and we will have enough stars around you to get us very competitive.

[GVGjr]

Would Grainger-Barass be worth having a talk to the Hawks about? 26 games in 3 years and only 6 this year so they might consider offers.

[azabob]

Would Grainger-Barass be worth having a talk to the Hawks about? 26 games in 3 years and only 6 this year so they might consider offers.

I do recall everyone's favourite Villian (Cane Kornes) suggested the dogs trade JUH for DGB around 2020/2021.

mjp would have a good insight into DGB. From memory DGB isn't a lock down defender and not great at the intercept game.

[josie]

I don?t think McKay at his asking price is worth it.

The optimist in me says Liam Jones has at least another 2 good years, maybe 3, in him if the injury gods are kind. He strikes me as a chap who is lithe and nimble considering his size, but also strong, so doesn?t carry the weight of say May from Demons.

Here?s hoping anyway!!

I agree we ideally need another ready to go strong backup to Jones to take on the large power forwards. Gardner IMO is not it, although he tries his heart out. And Keath possibly only has a year to go and I think is starting to become injury prone. I am guessing Club thinks we have enough tallish intercepting defender types, albeit they are a bit green (O?Donnell & Buss & ToB). Will be interesting where we play Croft - defender or forward or both. And Darcy although he appears to be being groomed for ruck/forward could also play intercepting defender too (pretty sure he has played in defence early on in VFL).

[chef]

Same for me, but gut feel is Himmelberg stays a Giant

Signed up for 6 years

[Grantysghost]

Signed up for 6 years

Free Macaroons - I'd do the same.

[bornadog]

Signed up for 6 years

Thanks Chef, I thought he would

[Mofra]

BZT is the only half decent tallish defender who is gettable and he's certainly not a no 1 KPD.
I do like him as a footballer though.

[Jasper]

BZT is the only half decent tallish defender who is gettable and he's certainly not a no 1 KPD.
I do like him as a footballer though.

Thats interesting and out of all the players being mentioned he is the one Id be interested in.
I just checked his stats on Footywire and it confirms he has some ability.
Would we need him as a number 1 defender with us anyway?

[hujsh]

BZT is the only half decent tallish defender who is gettable and he's certainly not a no 1 KPD.
I do like him as a footballer though.

Big Zom Tampbell?

[GVGjr]

Big Zom Tampbell?

Brandon Zerk-Thatcher

[bornadog]

Brandon Zerk-Thatcher

Is he available?

[GVGjr]

Is he available?

There is plenty of speculation that he's looking to make a move from Essendon and that Port are interested.

[1eyedog]

BZT is the only half decent tallish defender who is gettable and he's certainly not a no 1 KPD.
I do like him as a footballer though.

And he's not very good. Did you watch the Swans game? Yikes.

[bornadog]

Ben is very well sought after at the moment:


Hawthorn has entered the race for North Melbourne free agent Ben McKay. Club is chasing key defensive depth and also has interest in Esava Ratugolea.

Essendon, Sydney and Port Adelaide are also eyeing potential moves for McKay, who is one of the last remaining restricted free agents on the market.

[GVGjr]

Ben is very well sought after at the moment:

He's an okay defender and at the right price I can understand clubs being interested in but I doubt he is going to be a difference maker for many teams. North and the AFL would be hoping there is a club that would be willing to pay him overs so it can trigger an early compensation for him.

[Axe Man]

He's an okay defender and at the right price I can understand clubs being interested in but I doubt he is going to be a difference maker for many teams. North and the AFL would be hoping there is a club that would be willing to pay him overs so it can trigger an early compensation for him.

The talk is around 800k x 3 years will be required to trigger band 1 compo and Sydney may be willing to come to the party at that price. Not sure about the others. If Parish leaves via free agency that would rule Essendon out as they won't want to dilute their compo.

[GVGjr]

800k for a slightly above average key defender is crazy money. If Naughton was a key defender he'd be worth North of a million a season.

[whythelongface]

No thanks to Ben. I hope our focus at the trade table and draft time is adding fast midfielders that know how to use the ball and can defend. Really not asking for much.

[AshMac]

800k for a slightly above average key defender is crazy money. If Naughton was a key defender he'd be worth North of a million a season.

Hmmmm, sounds like he would be worth more as a defender than as a forward

[Mofra]

I'm more on the 'sign Marty Hore' for interceptor depth while Buss develops, back in JOD for the no 2 KPD spot and have Gardner & Keath as the competing types for 'next in' in the event of injury or form issues.

I'd be happy to just draft a KPD and have them develop at Footscray,. And let TOB go with a thank you and good luck.

[azabob]

I'm more on the 'sign Marty Hore' for interceptor depth while Buss develops, back in JOD for the no 2 KPD spot and have Gardner & Keath as the competing types for 'next in' in the event of injury or form issues.

I'd be happy to just draft a KPD and have them develop at Footscray,. And let TOB go with a thank you and good luck.

Mofra what positions do you think we need to focus on?

GWS, Adelaide, Fremantle all have a good track record in identify key defender talent from the mid point of the draft onwards.