Everyone is RIGHT.

[mjp]

Before I start:
- I have shingles right now and it is kicking my butt pretty bad. I went back to coach (had to miss a game the week before - a 1-point lost which i watched online and did not contribute to a positive health outcome!) on Saturday and by half time was really suffering with the stress induced nerve pain that is shingles...anyway - it was spiking again in the 3rd q vs Hawthorn and because I have like, a real job to go to, I turned the tv off in the interests of getting better....

So a lot of the stuff everyone is no doubt complaining about I didn't watch. But I think everyone knows by now I share in the pain.

To everyone saying we should sack Bevo - you're right. The results this season and over the past 18-months have been unacceptable and it really looks like we just need 'something' to change.

To everyone saying we need to stick with him - well, it's another loss by less than 2 goals...we haven't lost by > 22 points since round 2 - and it really has been a season of inches.

I actually feel sorry for Bevo and the coaches right now. Early in the season we were getting smacked and it makes it pretty simple to say "Right - whack - here's a radical change and you can see why...the results speak for themselves".

It's a hard position we're in right now - we play well and establish a lead so the plan (whatever it is and I seriously don't want to debate it) WORKS and why would we change. THEN, we fall apart and fall short - JUST - with enough of a tease at the end of a couple of games (Hawthorn and Collingwood esp) that indicate if we would simply persist everything would be OK.

Perhaps 3 or 4 close losses are equal to one big defeat and are enough to trigger change? I don't know. I know if I was the coaching team and Bevo in particular I would be having serious pause as our best is so clearly good enough yet something is stopping us from executing the plan for 4-quarters.

I guess this belongs in the 'Sharp Axes' thread (great thread by the way) but I just wanted to create one that sort of says whatever side of the fence you are on you are RIGHT and I hope everyone is able to appreciate the dilemma the club decision makers are in right now.

[angelopetraglia]

Agree with the sentiment. It is a dilemma.

But this is a binary game. You either win or you lose. It is the harsh reality of sport. That is why we love it. It is a fine line, but we are not getting the job done. That is not up for argument.

We need to confront the brutal facts.

[bornadog]

Agree with the sentiment. It is a dilemma.

But this is a binary game. You either win or you lose. It is the harsh reality of sport. That is why we love it. It is a fine line, but we are not getting the job done. That is not up for argument.

We need to confront the brutal facts.

But what are the brutal facts? Why have we lost so many close games? What is needed to go one better? Collingwood have shown the never say die attitude - what can be instilled into players to have the killer instinct, or, is that something you are born with.

What is the next move for the next two weeks and hopefully finals.

[bulldogtragic]

No dilemma if we said to Bevo; let’s talk about your contract at the end of 2023. We are a results based organisation and we believe you will get us to top 4 in 2023 so let’s talk then. There’s no rush.

But nooo. The one older brother had to go and screw it all up.

Two years salary on the line, straight out of the soft cap. We signed BMac early and it cost us. We seemingly want to sign everyone early and then wonder why if best laid plans fail we have/might have to pay out big money for nothing. Did we learn nothing from paying out BMac?

Would Bevo be re-signed right now? Would the club have had clandestine conversations with others just in case we didn’t by now?

[angelopetraglia]

But what are the brutal facts? Why have we lost so many close games? What is needed to go one better? Collingwood have shown the never say die attitude - what can be instilled into players to have the killer instinct, or, is that something you are born with.

What is the next move for the next two weeks and hopefully finals.

We need to confront the brutal facts that we are not getting the job done. Not make excuses. Then work through answering the questions that you have posed?

But you can only have crucial uncomfortable conversations about those questions if you confront the brutal facts that something systematic is causing us to lose all those close games from winning positions rather than applying blame to external forces.

As I said in a previous thread. When things go bad, don't look out the window, look in the mirror.

[bulldogtragic]

But what are the brutal facts? Why have we lost so many close games? What is needed to go one better? Collingwood have shown the never say die attitude - what can be instilled into players to have the killer instinct, or, is that something you are born with.

What is the next move for the next two weeks and hopefully finals.

See AP’s great post in the axes thread. Lays out everything in a fair and factual way.

[EasternWest]

But nooo. The one older brother had to go and screw it all up.


Ha! I understood that reference.

https://i.postimg.cc/YC03Sz5V/the-goonies-josh-brolin.gif

[mjp]

See AP’s great post in the axes thread. Lays out everything in a fair and factual way.

It is a great post. As I am trying to say here though, the 'close' nature of the games/losses really does throw a few extra jokers into the deck. It's a challenging situation when you are both clearly the best and clearly the worst side on the field every week...

I think everyone would acknowledge though that this game (Hawthorn) followed a different pattern to the other similar close losses.

Vs Sydney, we dominated possession and couldn't score.
Vs GWS we dominated possession and couldn't score (and Toby Greene did the things he does).
Vs Hawthorn they obliterated us around the ball and we couldn't get our hands on it.

I totally get why at the moment you are saying 'hard facts' (I know that's not a direct quote) should = hard decisions...I equally understand people who would say "Geez, we aren't far away...let's work out what lever we need to adjust and we could go all the way".

[bulldogtragic]

It is a great post. As I am trying to say here though, the 'close' nature of the games/losses really does throw a few extra jokers into the deck. It's a challenging situation when you are both clearly the best and clearly the worst side on the field every week...

I think everyone would acknowledge though that this game (Hawthorn) followed a different pattern to the other similar close losses.

Vs Sydney, we dominated possession and couldn't score.
Vs GWS we dominated possession and couldn't score (and Toby Greene did the things he does).
Vs Hawthorn they obliterated us around the ball and we couldn't get our hands on it.

I totally get why at the moment you are saying 'hard facts' (I know that's not a direct quote) should = hard decisions...I equally understand people who would say "Geez, we aren't far away...let's work out what lever we need to adjust and we could go all the way".

I posted a thread a few weeks back that didn’t get much attention. But it’s the same thing, it’s a Rorshack Test. You can see systemic failure, but I can understand (not agree) that some see somewhat unlucky losses. Personally I see things starting to mount up that something is NQR.

[Mantis]

It is a great post. As I am trying to say here though, the 'close' nature of the games/losses really does throw a few extra jokers into the deck. It's a challenging situation when you are both clearly the best and clearly the worst side on the field every week...

I think everyone would acknowledge though that this game (Hawthorn) followed a different pattern to the other similar close losses.

Vs Sydney, we dominated possession and couldn't score.
Vs GWS we dominated possession and couldn't score (and Toby Greene did the things he does).
Vs Hawthorn they obliterated us around the ball and we couldn't get our hands on it.

I totally get why at the moment you are saying 'hard facts' (I know that's not a direct quote) should = hard decisions...I equally understand people who would say "Geez, we aren't far away...let's work out what lever we need to adjust and we could go all the way".

For 45min we were statues and it was unacceptable. I can deal with the other losses, but yesterday hit different.

[The bulldog tragician]

Condolences on the shingles by the way mjp. It's the worst and can take a long time to recover fully, rest at the start is key though.

I find the prospect of sacking Bevo unpalatable but that is the emotion in me, the part that remembers how he transformed our club, the resilience and tenacity that our team showed in that magical period of 15-16. The persistence of the issues we've had has shaken my faith. This year they have really stolen my joy in footy. It will be hard to go on Sunday. If we win by 100 points, if we scrape in, I still won't trust this team.

If we LOSE...how come it doesn't seem as impossible as it should?

Bevo should not have been re-signed so early. It puts us in that ugly territory that no one wants to be in.

I lament the fact that we botched things at the end of '22. The loss to Freo should have had major flashing lights. Whatever was decided then hasn't worked (what was that exactly?) ... if it's true that we worked on a new game plan over summer and then had to abandon it after round 2, only to replace it with the style that has proven so brittle...that is kinda crazy and points to a coaching group that's lost its way.

[jeemak]

Sorry to hear you're unwell MJP, and more so given it's shingles which I've heard is a horrible thing to deal with. All the best on your recovery.

[azabob]

I posted a thread a few weeks back that didn’t get much attention. But it’s the same thing, it’s a Rorshack Test. You can see systemic failure, but I can understand (not agree) that some see somewhat unlucky losses. Personally I see things starting to mount up that something is NQR.

I couldn't engage because I don't know what the Rorshack Test was and looking up the definition confused me even more.

[1eyedog]

For me it's a moot point. We threw in our lot with Bevo and signed him until 2025 he is absolutely 100% coaching next year.

We cannot afford to pay two coaching salaries for the next two years. We've made our bed.

[MrMahatma]

I'm in the "stick with Bevo but something needs to change" and I assume that the "something" is going to be assistant coaches.

I agree with the premise of the thread though. We're all scratching around to work out why we're not winning, and what changes will change the outcome.

I still think this is the most exciting group of players of seen in R,W&B. I also think that there's the same issues (set shot conversion, going missing for a quarter... for example) that seems to haunt us.

[bulldogtragic]

I couldn't engage because I don't know what the Rorshack Test was and looking up the definition confused me even more.

Ink blot test. Where you just say whatever you see. People see different things looking at same ink blot. Despite it being the same. Was used as a personality test back in the day.

[Grantysghost]

Get well MJP!

[bornadog]

- I have shingles right now and it is kicking my butt pretty bad.

Hopefully a quick recovery. My wife had it many years ago, and wasn't pleasant for her.

[angelopetraglia]

I got shingles after my third COVID Vaccine, my wife got it just after her second COVID Vaccine. Don't know if it was just a coincidence but that is what happened.

Super painful and knocked us both for six. All the best for a speedy recovery.

[Hotdog60]

May be there's nothing wrong with the plan (what ever that is) but the cattle to implement it. If player A is given a task and he is either too slow, not strong enough or not mentally capable. So give it player B and its not much different so the hands get tied.
When we are allowed to play our way we can be quite brutal but if the screws are applied or we get given a taste of our own medicine we don't have the speed and mongrel to stop it.

[DOG GOD]

Get well soon MJP.

Is it the players conditioning that can be incorporated into the close losses?
We use ALOT of petrol tickets to get those 20 point leads. A lot of running, a lot of inside 50’s for in most part, little result on the scoreboard. Many many times I e watched games and by the 10 min mark of the 3rd we look out on our feet. Are we just not fit enough ? Who is the conditioning coach and how long has he been at the dogs ?

I’m not saying this is THE reason. I also think our lack of leadership on field, lack of player focus, the coaches unable to generate a plan B etc etc are also in the mix.

[SonofScray]

May be there's nothing wrong with the plan (what ever that is) but the cattle to implement it. If player A is given a task and he is either too slow, not strong enough or not mentally capable. So give it player B and its not much different so the hands get tied.
When we are allowed to play our way we can be quite brutal but if the screws are applied or we get given a taste of our own medicine we don't have the speed and mongrel to stop it.
Then it’s the wrong plan. Simple as that.

Bevo has been on record saying he will use what is available to him and build a style that suits the personnel.

[Mofra]

No dilemma if we said to Bevo; let?s talk about your contract at the end of 2023. We are a results based organisation and we believe you will get us to top 4 in 2023 so let?s talk then. There?s no rush.

But nooo. The one older brother had to go and screw it all up.

Two years salary on the line, straight out of the soft cap. We signed BMac early and it cost us. We seemingly want to sign everyone early and then wonder why if best laid plans fail we have/might have to pay out big money for nothing. Did we learn nothing from paying out BMac?

Would Bevo be re-signed right now? Would the club have had clandestine conversations with others just in case we didn?t by now?
Coach payouts are generally capped at 6 months, regardless of the time left on their contract.

[Mofra]

For 45min we were statues and it was unacceptable. I can deal with the other losses, but yesterday hit different.
Maybe it hit different because we had the most obvious lever to pull all season (tag Newcombe) and we did it half an hour late, and with the wrong player.

[bornadog]

Coach payouts are generally capped at 6 months, regardless of the time left on their contract.

Are you sure? I read that Simpsons payout at Eagles would be huge and that is why he is being kept on? Gotta pay for those hungry Jacks Franchises

[azabob]

Are you sure? I read that Simpsons payout at Eagles would be huge and that is why he is being kept on? Gotta pay for those hungry Jacks Franchises

The six month clause is likely linked to afl assistance packages.

Eagles can afford to pay out Simpson, but they will go over the soft cap and get taxed.

[bulldogtragic]

Coach payouts are generally capped at 6 months, regardless of the time left on their contract.

I thought the six month rule is conditional. In that you need to be a basket case club the AFEL is funding because they can’t turn a profit - hence why Saints/Ratten was six months. The AFEL don’t want to be in effect paying these huge coach pay outs. Since we turn a profit, it wouldn’t apply.


I found this extract:

The new AFL rule stipulates that every contract exceeding $215,000 struck with coaches and staff at debt-ridden and AFL-assisted clubs must be approved by Auld and include a settlement of no more than six months.

[HOSE B ROMERO]

Get well soon MJP.

Is it the players conditioning that can be incorporated into the close losses?
We use ALOT of petrol tickets to get those 20 point leads. A lot of running, a lot of inside 50’s for in most part, little result on the scoreboard. Many many times I e watched games and by the 10 min mark of the 3rd we look out on our feet. Are we just not fit enough ? Who is the conditioning coach and how long has he been at the dogs ?

I’m not saying this is THE reason. I also think our lack of leadership on field, lack of player focus, the coaches unable to generate a plan B etc etc are also in the mix.

Matt Inness? He's probably been there 5 years.

[Grantysghost]

Matt Inness? He's probably been there 5 years.

Chris Bell as well.

[angelopetraglia]

Matt Innes has been at the club for 9 years and 10 months.

He was VFL Strength and Conditioning coach for one year.
He was High Performance Coach for another year.
For the last 8 Years he has been the Head of Sport Science and Physical Performance.

[azabob]

Chris Bell as well.

I reckon Chris Bell does a good job. He’s more rehab, yeah?

[angelopetraglia]

I reckon Chris Bell does a good job. He’s more rehab, yeah?

Official title is Head of Sports Medicine. He has been at the club since 2014. "My current role manages the medical and rehabilitation teams that optimize the performances of the Western Bulldogs Football Club AFL / AFLW / VFL teams."

[bornadog]

Matt Innes has been at the club for 9 years and 10 months.

He was VFL Strength and Conditioning coach for one year.
He was High Performance Coach for another year.
For the last 8 Years he has been the Head of Sport Science and Physical Performance.

Nothing wrong with Matt at all. Highly experienced with a great background. I don't believe we are lacking conditioning at all.

[jeemak]

Matt Innes has been at the club for 9 years and 10 months.

He was VFL Strength and Conditioning coach for one year.
He was High Performance Coach for another year.
For the last 8 Years he has been the Head of Sport Science and Physical Performance.

He's only competent when we're winning.

[jeemak]

I reckon Chris Bell does a good job. He’s more rehab, yeah?

Conservative rehab.

[bulldogtragic]

Conservative rehab.

Ticks boxes better than anyone I know.

[DOG GOD]

Nothing wrong with Matt at all. Highly experienced with a great background. I don't believe we are lacking conditioning at all.
Really? There’s been games where players like macrae and English look like they are running in quicksand 5 mins into the 3rd.

[GVGjr]

Coach payouts are generally capped at 6 months, regardless of the time left on their contract.

It depends if the club is getting AFL assistance. Saints only had to payout Ratten 6 months. WC need to pay the full amount of Simpson's contract and the same would apply for us with Bevo if it ever got to that stage.

[azabob]

Ticks boxes better than anyone I know.

He does, but you must admit our players come straight back in after a long lay and don't look like they've missed a beat.

[bulldogtragic]

He does, but you must admit our players come straight back in after a long lay and don't look like they've missed a beat.

Chuuch

[The Doctor]

Wishing you a speedy recovery Mike.
Doc

[MrMahatma]

Really? There’s been games where players like macrae and English look like they are running in quicksand 5 mins into the 3rd.

Dunkley's comments didn't help.

But nor have regular fade outs.

To be fair, we were coming pretty hard on Sunday. Another 2-3 mins and we'd win, so I wouldn't say that was fitness.

[GVGjr]

Before I start:
- I have shingles right now and it is kicking my butt pretty bad. I went back to coach (had to miss a game the week before - a 1-point lost which i watched online and did not contribute to a positive health outcome!) on Saturday and by half time was really suffering with the stress induced nerve pain that is shingles...anyway - it was spiking again in the 3rd q vs Hawthorn and because I have like, a real job to go to, I turned the tv off in the interests of getting better....

So a lot of the stuff everyone is no doubt complaining about I didn't watch. But I think everyone knows by now I share in the pain.

To everyone saying we should sack Bevo - you're right. The results this season and over the past 18-months have been unacceptable and it really looks like we just need 'something' to change.

To everyone saying we need to stick with him - well, it's another loss by less than 2 goals...we haven't lost by > 22 points since round 2 - and it really has been a season of inches.

I actually feel sorry for Bevo and the coaches right now. Early in the season we were getting smacked and it makes it pretty simple to say "Right - whack - here's a radical change and you can see why...the results speak for themselves".

It's a hard position we're in right now - we play well and establish a lead so the plan (whatever it is and I seriously don't want to debate it) WORKS and why would we change. THEN, we fall apart and fall short - JUST - with enough of a tease at the end of a couple of games (Hawthorn and Collingwood esp) that indicate if we would simply persist everything would be OK.

Perhaps 3 or 4 close losses are equal to one big defeat and are enough to trigger change? I don't know. I know if I was the coaching team and Bevo in particular I would be having serious pause as our best is so clearly good enough yet something is stopping us from executing the plan for 4-quarters.

I guess this belongs in the 'Sharp Axes' thread (great thread by the way) but I just wanted to create one that sort of says whatever side of the fence you are on you are RIGHT and I hope everyone is able to appreciate the dilemma the club decision makers are in right now.

First up, I hope you get better soon. Shingles is not something I'd wish upon anyone.

I also think the Sharp Axes thread is a good one and both the sack and keep Bevo comments have been by in large informative.
I've detailed why I don't think there needs to be a change to Bevo or the assistants but we now know Rohan Smith won't be part of our coaching group next year. Is it the start of something bigger? I really don't know.
I also don't know much about the contracts we have in place with the other assistants which might shape our approach.

Some points I think we need to consider in this debate:
You can't train on a venue like Skinner Reserve for as long as we did with no amenities and for it not to have an impact.
You can't have a VFL team with no home ground base without having an impact to the players pushing to get promoted.
You can't have a poorly set-up football department with no GM of Football and for it not to have an impact.
Then consider soft cap impacts (they are real), a massive redevelopment that has to be diverting the focus of the executive team and perhaps we have also missed some progress in the development of players, got some of our recruitment wrong and we might have not got this side as fit as some other clubs.

As supporters we rightly had lofty ambitions for the season and so did the club for that matter.
Bevo is the face of the footy department and I get why people see that the buck stops there and perhaps it needs to but I don't think it's all on him and we need to factor in the reasons why we've come up short on expectations so far.

[mjp]

You can't train on a venue like Skinner Reserve for as long as we did with no amenities and for it not to have an impact.


I've heard a couple of the players mention Skinner Reserve on the Danny/Boyd pod as in, can we PLEASE get back to the club and soon...no doubt it has had an impact.

[bornadog]

I've heard a couple of the players mention Skinner Reserve on the Danny/Boyd pod as in, can we PLEASE get back to the club and soon...no doubt it has had an impact.

No doubt an impact (small me thinks), but gee, no way should be an excuse.

That ground had a couple of million spent on it, it is not a cow paddock. Wow, no where to get a latte :D

[MrMahatma]

No doubt an impact (small me thinks), but gee, no way should be an excuse.

That ground had a couple of million spent on it, it is not a cow paddock. Wow, no where to get a latte :D

A goal a game? Gets us 3 wins.

[bornadog]

A goal a game? Gets us 3 wins.

That is not down to the ground

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I have lost faith, never loyalty in Bevo after last weekend and so the season and the hope of buliding for finals.
We limp in not from injury or talent rather because we are limp, need a blue pill.
The coach must be held accountable no doubt.
Bevo would be snapped up but McRaes are thin on ground.
What I do not know but would like to is, what is the players' attitude atm?
I feel those that've left, Stringer, Young, Dunkley may've been because of the playing groups attitude to them as disapproving, perhaps less so of Dunkley.
Bevo seems to be saying his job is helping the group achieve what they want.
Is the tail wagging the dog somewhat too much?

[bulldogtragic]

I would also go as far to say that both Chris and Matt's roles have been compromised this year with having to train and do pre season at Skinners. Track was hard so lots of injuries and they probably didn't want to train them as hard as what they would have liked. Those that did get injured also seem to get injured again and a lot of those injuries - groins etc were blamed on the surface. Didn't make their jobs easy considering they are used to training and running on soft and spongey surfaces.

So. Are you Chris or Matt? :D

[GVGjr]

I've heard a couple of the players mention Skinner Reserve on the Danny/Boyd pod as in, can we PLEASE get back to the club and soon...no doubt it has had an impact.

Players were commenting on it back in November 22 and it didn't start to improve until Jan 23 and then was a lot better by Feb.
At the same time it would have been very frustrating for the coaches seeing so many players being rotated through the rehab group.

[Grantysghost]

Players were commenting on it back in November 22 and it didn't start to improve until Jan 23 and then was a lot better by Feb.
At the same time it would have been very frustrating for the coaches seeing so many players being rotated through the rehab group.

Yes I asked the question in November.

Wasn't a positive response.

Head shake, it's too hard.

[bornadog]

Yes I asked the question in November.

Wasn't a positive response.

Head shake, it's too hard.

I really don't think training at Skinner effected our season - some inconvenience but nothing more

[GVGjr]

I really don't think training at Skinner effected our season - some inconvenience but nothing more

What are you basing that on BAD? Hard surface, no real amenities and an array of foot type injuries resulting with players rotating through the rehab group plus the feedback the players were giving would indicate it was a bit more challenging than just being inconvenient.

[bornadog]

What are you basing that on BAD? Hard surface, no real amenities and an array of foot type injuries resulting with players rotating through the rehab group plus the feedback the players were giving would indicate it was a bit more challenging than just being inconvenient.

All teams go through stuff like that. eg: Hawks lost use of their training ground for months. We can't be saying that the ground effected our season and that is why we lost games.

No doubt their were issues, but no excuses.

[Grantysghost]

All teams go through stuff like that. eg: Hawks lost use of their training ground for months. We can't be saying that the ground effected our season and that is why we lost games.

No doubt their were issues, but no excuses.

Players said it had an effect.

[GVGjr]

All teams go through stuff like that. eg: Hawks lost use of their training ground for months. We can't be saying that the ground effected our season and that is why we lost games.

No doubt their were issues, but no excuses.

What was the feedback from the Hawks change though? Was the ground they trained on having trouble with a hard surface and did they have better facilities? Their VFL team has a home ground so no change there.

We got off to a slow start to the season with a couple of thrashings and perhaps the Skinner reserve surface played a part in it.
You seem to want to dismiss it as a non factor and that's fine but I saw players coming off the ground repeatedly and heading to the rehab group in the early days.

[JanLorMill]

Players said it had an effect.
Yes Naughton missed 3 easy shots on Sunday because of Skinner reserve

[bornadog]

What was the feedback from the Hawks change though? Was the ground they trained on having trouble with a hard surface and did they have better facilities? Their VFL team has a home ground so no change there.

We got off to a slow start to the season with a couple of thrashings and perhaps the Skinner reserve surface played a part in it.
You seem to want to dismiss it as a non factor and that's fine but I saw players coming off the ground repeatedly and heading to the rehab group in the early days.

I don't believe they trained at Box hill. I would have to ask a mate where they trained

[Grantysghost]

Yes Naughton missed 3 easy shots on Sunday because of Skinner reserve

Really? How did that happen?

[Grantysghost]

I don't believe they trained at Box hill. I would have to ask a mate where they trained

BAD you're using that as your key argument and you don't know where they trained?

I'm starting to doubt your research ;)

[JanLorMill]

Really? How did that happen?
Obviously, he was thinking of the hard surface in pre=season instead thinking ball through the big sticks.

[Grantysghost]

Obviously, he was thinking of the hard surface in pre=season instead thinking ball through the big sticks.

I doubt that happened.

[mjp]

Obviously, he was thinking of the hard surface in pre=season instead thinking ball through the big sticks.

I know the thread is called 'everyone is right' but dismissing things out of hand because they didn't impact us in the Hawthorn game - essentially accusing people of 'making excuses' for the players...well, that 100% isn't right.

You post some awesome stuff mate and whilst I'm pretty certain you could care less about my approval or otherwise, I don't think flippant remarks about some shots in goal in August really assist in a discussion about the venue we were based at in pre-season.

Happy players are united players. Did Skinner have an impact? No doubt. Is it an excuse for losing to the 16th placed team? Of course not...and you know all this mate.

Anyway.

[GVGjr]

BAD you're using that as your key argument and you don't know where they trained?

I'm starting to doubt your research ;)

There's that and not actually getting to Skinner Reserve for a first hand look at the 3m investment as well.
From memory he thought we would be playing VFL games there. I think it's more about defending the clubs decision to be based there during the redevelopment.

[bornadog]

There's that and not actually getting to Skinner Reserve for a first hand look at the 3m investment as well.
From memory he thought we would be playing VFL games there. I think it's more about defending the clubs decision to be based there during the redevelopment.

Who is He?

[JanLorMill]

I know the thread is called 'everyone is right' but dismissing things out of hand because they didn't impact us in the Hawthorn game - essentially accusing people of 'making excuses' for the players...well, that 100% isn't right.

You post some awesome stuff mate and whilst I'm pretty certain you could care less about my approval or otherwise, I don't think flippant remarks about some shots in goal in August really assist in a discussion about the venue we were based at in pre-season.

Happy players are united players. Did Skinner have an impact? No doubt. Is it an excuse for losing to the 16th placed team? Of course not...and you know all this mate.

Anyway.
It was a joke