Fans not wanting us to win/make finals

[Rocco Jones]

Out of interest...

I totally get the frustration. Get wanting it all to end to said frustration, however...

Those who want us to lose/miss finals because it might mean Bevo stays and/or we don't make real change...isn't the club doomed anyway if our board accepts a win against a depleted Geelong as 'good enough'? Like if by definition, we need to be forced into the 'right' call, aren't we stuffed as a default?

If I truly believed I knew better than the board and that the club needed added depths of failure to realise their issues, then I'd want the board gone/massive changes to the club.

FWIW from my perspective, I want Bevo gone. I definitely hope we make finals. If we beat a depleted Geelong and continue the frustrating season in a final vs Blues, my wanting Bevo gone thing won't change in the slightest.

[bornadog]

I don't understand the mentality of not wanting to play finals. The players train all season to play finals and get a chance to go all the way. Finals experience is like gold for them.

There will still be a review on why we didn't make top 4, because that is what the club was aiming for.

[Sedat]

Out of interest...

I totally get the frustration. Get wanting it all to end to said frustration, however...

Those who want us to lose/miss finals because it might mean Bevo stays and/or we don't make real change...isn't the club doomed anyway if our board accepts a win against a depleted Geelong as 'good enough'? Like if by definition, we need to be forced into the 'right' call, aren't we stuffed as a default?

If I truly believed I knew better than the board and that the club needed added depths of failure to realise their issues, then I'd want the board gone/massive changes to the club.

FWIW from my perspective, I want Bevo gone. I definitely hope we make finals. If we beat a depleted Geelong and continue the frustrating season in a final vs Blues, my wanting Bevo gone thing won't change in the slightest.
IMO last week's incredible capitulation against a team who has a) been non-competitive for 2 full seasons and b) didn't really even want to win, will be the catalyst for real change in the footy dept. It doesn't actually matter if we go on a miraculous 5 match run and win the flag from here - the disastrous loss against WC confirms that real changes are required in the footy dept. That performance has given sunlight to the extent of our issues in game plan/ personnel/ fitness & conditioning/ player development/ in-game tactics. If Bevo survives the changes (I think he will), he have no choice but to accept that we need to change the above aspects to get the best out of the team.

But yeah, I want to beat those smug pricks in the shitty pissant pork-barrell toy ground with no wings for the first time in 20 years, even if they wheel out Scratcher Neale, Murray Whitcombe and Terry Bright.

[jeemak]

WCE wanted to win. They attacked the ball and the man ferociously and ran hard all day.

[Axe Man]

I've never not wanted us to win and I'm not about to start wishing loses now.

[The bulldog tragician]

IMO last week's incredible capitulation against a team who has a) been non-competitive for 2 full seasons and b) didn't really even want to win, will be the catalyst for real change in the footy dept. It doesn't actually matter if we go on a miraculous 5 match run and win the flag from here - the disastrous loss against WC confirms that real changes are required in the footy dept. That performance has given sunlight to the extent of our issues in game plan/ personnel/ fitness & conditioning/ player development/ in-game tactics. If Bevo survives the changes (I think he will), he have no choice but to accept that we need to change the above aspects to get the best out of the team.

But yeah, I want to beat those smug pricks in the shitty pissant pork-barrell toy ground with no wings for the first time in 20 years, even if they wheel out Scratcher Neale, Murray Whitcombe and Terry Bright.
If that happens, actually I would be in favour of Bevo being appointed for life as it would be the biggest, most miraculous turnaround from a demoralised disorganised group to slick fighting machine of all time. Reading about Bevo’s demeanour at his press conference makes that seem improbable.

[bornadog]

If that happens, actually I would be in favour of Bevo being appointed for life as it would be the biggest, most miraculous turnaround from a demoralised disorganised group to slick fighting machine of all time. Reading about Bevo’s demeanour at his press conference makes that seem improbable.

I thought he sounded like he has had a cold/flu

watch here and see what you think: https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/1414606/luke-beveridge-were-still-a-chance?videoId=1414606&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1692921548001

[josie]

I want us to have a culture of trying your guts out unconditionally and being tough/standing up for your teammates - best example I can think of is “play like Libba”. I also want a culture where we win even when we are favourites (something historically we’ve been poor at).

If this means we drop a place or two (or hopefully more) in draft spots so be it.

We will keep the majority of the playing list this year, even if we turn over 8 to 10 or even 12. Why would you want to build a loser culture? Yuk.

However counter to this, I’m not sure our culture (or emotional wellbeing) could bear another humiliating finals loss where we capitulate like we did in the elimination loss to GWS a while ago or the one last year against Freo or that horrible GF 2021. So I’m a wee bit torn. Overall though striving for a winning culture is more sound.

[josie]

If that happens, actually I would be in favour of Bevo being appointed for life as it would be the biggest, most miraculous turnaround from a demoralised disorganised group to slick fighting machine of all time. Reading about Bevo’s demeanour at his press conference makes that seem improbable.

Now that would be a story for the ages. Seeing the turn around since 2016 though I’d still want a thorough review. I’d wonder if Bevo would hang up the coaching boots if we could pull that off, and I’d even pay him out in full (or wealthy benefactors pay him out) as he’d deserve it!!

[Flamethrower]

WCE wanted to win. They attacked the ball and the man ferociously and ran hard all day.

Players always want to win - it is the clubs that tank whether it be playing players in unsuitable positions, or not tagging an opposition star player.

Actually maybe Bevo has been tanking since 2015?????

I definitely want to beat Geelong, Carlton beat GWS, and then the boys have another magic month of finals football cumulating in VFL / AFL premiership number 3.

Just can't see it as it appears we have a fractured football club at the moment.

[mjp]

FWIW from my perspective, I want Bevo gone.

I understand that but I'm still not sure that's the right decision and hate the circus that will surround us as it plays out.



I definitely hope we make finals.

Ummm. Yeah...I want to make it. I'm not really sure I'm super keen to watch it.

My rule has been - since I moved back to Perth in 2008 - attend the FIRST final every year ('cos there might not be another one). I couldn't go to the Saints one in the COVID season but have stayed true to my 'promise'...I can pretty much guarantee you if we draw Carlton at Marvel that I wont be spending the money to head across.



If we beat a depleted Geelong and continue the frustrating season in a final vs Blues, my wanting Bevo gone thing won't change in the slightest.
Agree that whatever happens this weekend shouldn't impact on coaching decisions...he's been at the club for 9 years and "we" should know whether we are in or out!

[Axe Man]

I can pretty much guarantee you if we draw Carlton at Marvel that I wont be spending the money to head across.


Marvel? They wouldn't even let us play the Cows at Marvel. If we make it there will be +80k at the MCG.

[Boots]

I'm fairly sure I have previously gone on the record as saying that it would be better for us to miss the eight, in terms of the fact that that is a sobering position that demands real action.

I don't think I can get to 'I would prefer us to lose' though.

There is a disconcerting sense accompanying this debate though that trying to win against the tide slowly and irreversibly grinds down our best players, like the action of bone on cartilage in an ageing knee. I suspect people preferring a loss cannot imagine a victory in finals, and would like to be free from the gruelling expectations of finals footy altogether so that we can 'play the kids' and glory in a loss full of possibility rather than another phyrric victory.

[GVGjr]

Out of interest...

I totally get the frustration. Get wanting it all to end to said frustration, however...

Those who want us to lose/miss finals because it might mean Bevo stays and/or we don't make real change...isn't the club doomed anyway if our board accepts a win against a depleted Geelong as 'good enough'? Like if by definition, we need to be forced into the 'right' call, aren't we stuffed as a default?

If I truly believed I knew better than the board and that the club needed added depths of failure to realise their issues, then I'd want the board gone/massive changes to the club.

FWIW from my perspective, I want Bevo gone. I definitely hope we make finals. If we beat a depleted Geelong and continue the frustrating season in a final vs Blues, my wanting Bevo gone thing won't change in the slightest.

There could be 4 motivators to this sort of thought amongst some fans

1) The season has been a long one and it's being seen as a car backfiring all the time so we are in a bad need of a service.
2) Expectations not being met and especially after dropping games to the 16th and 18th ranked teams and a heartbreaking loss to GWS before that.
3) Having not made the top 4 at the end of the H&A season in the last 9 years some people would strongly believe it's time for a bigger change.
4) As much as we will never forget our GF win in 2016 it's now time to look forward not backwards.

Making finals isn't a sign of success, especially limping into them, and winning them is vastly more important.
8 teams make the finals so if you make the top 8 and don't go on with it you have only had a slightly above average season and we have had enough of those.

I'm all for beating Geelong and making the finals but I can understand why it might not be as important for everyone. Things do need to change and a finals performance won't mask that for so many people. Winning a final however, will be vastly better received.

Go Dogs

[The Adelaide Connection]

10 weeks ago Carlton were among the bottom 4 conversation and Essendon were being talked about as a possible top 4 finisher.

If we make finals and somehow manage to reboot ourselves to somewhere near our best, on our day we could beat anyone. Is this the most open final series ever? With the Pies and Power coming back to the pack a little it could well be.

I am frustrated as anyone. I am over our vanilla, predictable, seemingly one-faceted game plan. But I don’t get people ‘hoping’ we miss finals. That is bananas. In the deep, dark winters of old when we were have been perennially handcuffed to the bottom would we be talking like this?

[Grantysghost]

My guess is main reasons for that :

1.)Might mean drastic change doesn't occur.
2.)The thought of a Carlton pantsing in a final.
C.)Higher draft position.

The only one I agree with is 2.

[bornadog]

There could be 4 motivators to this sort of thought amongst some fans

1) The season has been a long one and it's being seen as a car backfiring all the time so we are in a bad need of a service.

Go Dogs

I saw a ladder the other day taking out gather round results and we would have finished 8th. The rest of the ladder was pretty much the same as now.

[Grantysghost]

I thought he sounded like he has had a cold/flu

watch here and see what you think: https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/1414606/luke-beveridge-were-still-a-chance?videoId=1414606&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1692921548001

He was asked how he was and he responded emphatically that he was doing well!

Fwiw I too thought he was crook.

[Boots]

I saw a ladder the other day taking out gather round results and we would have finished 8th. The rest of the ladder was pretty much the same as now.

I was so angry at being one of two teams to play a home side in Gather Round at the time, and I'm livid now.

Completely and utterly appalling that PA and Adelaide didn't play each other in that round.

[angelopetraglia]

Jon Ralph

The Cripps ribs setback that will aid the Giants’ finals hopes. Cripps to miss GWS clash.

[Grantysghost]

If we make it and lose to Carlton that would be 5 elimination finals losses in Bevo's tenure.

15 Crows
19 Giants
20 Aints
22 Freo
23 Blues

5 from 9.

[Grantysghost]

Jon Ralph

The Cripps ribs setback that will aid the Giants’ finals hopes. Cripps to miss GWS clash.

Makes sense the Blues wouldn't take any chances with injured players.

[Rocco Jones]

I understand that but I'm still not sure that's the right decision and hate the circus that will surround us as it plays out.

When I say I want Bevo gone, it's from my position atm and I would definitely give him the rest of however long our season is. Also, I acknowledge I don't know a lot of important info. I guess I am trying to relate to the people who are frustrated and angry etc.


Ummm. Yeah...I want to make it. I'm not really sure I'm super keen to watch it.

Totally. I totally get fans on whatever level 'wanting' us to miss finals to avoid the anxiety. I saw your thread after the Eagles games, I was pretty relieved to believe the season was over.


My rule has been - since I moved back to Perth in 2008 - attend the FIRST final every year ('cos there might not be another one). I couldn't go to the Saints one in the COVID season but have stayed true to my 'promise'...I can pretty much guarantee you if we draw Carlton at Marvel that I wont be spending the money to head across.


Yeah no way would I fly over either. Let me make it clear, I totally get a lot of reasons why fans are not looking forward to the possible final. My thing is wanting us to lose so the board are forced into a call. If we believe the board need us to miss finals, then they are so incompetent we should want them out. Being saved from yourself has a very quick expiry limit and if they are that bad, it will come crashing down soon enough. Bevo wouldn't be the main problem in that case, it would be the board.



Agree that whatever happens this weekend shouldn't impact on coaching decisions...he's been at the club for 9 years and "we" should know whether we are in or out!

Yep. If the board decide to make their decision based on beating a depleted Geelong, forget all else, they are not the board we want.

[mjp]

When I say I want Bevo gone, it's from my position atm and I would definitely give him the rest of however long our season is. Also, I acknowledge I don't know a lot of important info. I guess I am trying to relate to the people who are frustrated and angry etc.


I think we *should* be better.

But I also get frustrated at the large number of people who want the coach sacked but who seem to wish that at least half of our players:

1/. Were NEVER on an AFL list because they are simply NO GOOD.
2/. Deserved a shot but now needs to be REMOVED from an AFL list.

I just think you need to 'pick a lane'.

The list is good and the coach needs to go.
The list is no good/over-rated and the coach needs 'one more' chance.

You can add to this everyone who is piling on the AC's (what did they ever do) and saying that they aren't challenging Bevo etc and therefore THEY need to be sacked...I know I've posted about this before, but the senior coach runs the show - so if you are saying we need 'stronger' AC's who will 'challenge' Bevo then you need to change into the 'sack Bevo' camp. If we aren't tagging that isn't an AC 'problem' - that is a footy philosophy problem and it comes from the top.

I totally get that everyone is upset and frustrated - and I am too - but to me it isn't like they aren't trying and whilst the last two weeks haven't been tip top (they have been an utter disaster) losing close games to Port, Collingwood, GWS etc is just the way it goes...they are good teams who are trying as well. Every time we win it should be a bit of a celebration and as supporters I think we've forgotten that...we don't accept wins these days (I'm guilty too) - I want us to win PLAYING WELL...it is not fair we apply that as a criteria.

The footy club needs to decide what they want a coach to be - from top to bottom - and they MUST know Bevo well enough to know whether or not he fits those criteria. If he does - roll with it. If he doesn't - roll him out. The result last week shouldn't impact that. The result this week certainly shouldn't impact that. The kind of losses that get coaches sacked are those 150+ point 'take a look in the mirror' type losses we have witnessed...yes, we lost to the bottom team and we SHOULD have won easily, but it was close and but for a bit of luck we could have won...they ARE trying. They AREN'T playing well...but they ARE trying.

[ReLoad]

Guys and Gals this is really simple; we WANT to make finals, so GWS doesnt.

Oh and theres a lot of extra cash if we make the finals, im all for that too.

[SonofScray]

I want us to win this weekend. Then win a final. Then win another one. And another one. And another one.

Top 4, and a Prelim was my pass mark for the year. We?ve missed the top four, but the rest remains in play, so that?s what I want.


I also want Bevo out of the coaching department, and I imagine there are folk who agree that see us losing as a catalyst for change there. I know folk who want us to lose because our footy has been so pathetic at times this year that they don?t think we deserve to be there.

That line of thinking isn?t for me. Got to be in it to win it. Go and win and keep winning.

Regardless of what happens, I?ve made my mind up in the coaching scenario. Flag, or fail, the preferred outcome for me is a change of coach.

[macca]

Guys and Gals this is really simple; we WANT to make finals, so GWS doesnt.

Oh and theres a lot of extra cash if we make the finals, im all for that too.

I want our team to make finals . We win , half the equation is submitted .
The other half, I want Carlton to win this week, so we make finals . geez. I feel dirty saying that.

[mjp]

Flag, or fail, the preferred outcome for me is a change of coach.

So - in the incredibly unlikely (aka impossible) scenario where we went through and WON the grand final you would still sack the coach?

That's COLD as ice mate. If I could think of a decent movie analogy I'd use it but that is some pretty clear-eyed decision making.

[Go_Dogs]

Can?t wait till we win. Rabbit put the hat.

And then have to wait till 9pm Sunday to see if bloody CARLTON of all teams will do us a favour and win?. This weekend is going to be miserable one way or another!

[jeemak]

So - in the incredibly unlikely (aka impossible) scenario where we went through and WON the grand final you would still sack the coach?

That's COLD as ice mate. If I could think of a decent movie analogy I'd use it but that is some pretty clear-eyed decision making.

It's Bond villain type stuff.

[Mofra]

I can't imagine a scenario where I'd want the Bulldogs to lose.
Regardless on your stance on the coach, it may be the last game for McLean (a bullgod) and Crozier, and a review may well make massive off-field changes regardless of the result tomorrow.

[bornadog]

I want us to win this weekend. Then win a final. Then win another one. And another one. And another one.

Top 4, and a Prelim was my pass mark for the year. We?ve missed the top four, but the rest remains in play, so that?s what I want.


I also want Bevo out of the coaching department, and I imagine there are folk who agree that see us losing as a catalyst for change there. I know folk who want us to lose because our footy has been so pathetic at times this year that they don?t think we deserve to be there.

That line of thinking isn?t for me. Got to be in it to win it. Go and win and keep winning.

Regardless of what happens, I?ve made my mind up in the coaching scenario. Flag, or fail, the preferred outcome for me is a change of coach.

Well prepare yourself for another year of Bevo.

[Go_Dogs]

Could be worse folks. We could go for the Bombers….

[Mantis]

I always want us to perform well and ultimately win.. I guess I won't know how engaged I will be until the game starts but as it stands, I'm not really looking forward to our game which isn't the norm.

The season, and especially the last 2 games have taken its toll.

[SonofScray]

So - in the incredibly unlikely (aka impossible) scenario where we went through and WON the grand final you would still sack the coach?

That's COLD as ice mate. If I could think of a decent movie analogy I'd use it but that is some pretty clear-eyed decision making.
Yep. Nothing personal, just business.

Of course, during games I get frustrated and emotional about how it?s all going, but I?ve held the view for a long time now. Folk can frame it however they want, but I am really comfortable that my position isn?t driven by emotion and ranting and raving.

Ranieri got the flick from Leicester 9 months after winning the Premier League.
Cassidy got the flick from the Bruins despite a relatively successful tenure, including a Presidents Trophy and playoffs in consecutive years before getting the arse.

In my world of sport, it?s not unprecedented.

Obviously the merits of it are getting tossed about on every Dogs discussion on every platform, not many agree, but I would do it today, Mad Monday after the flag this year and in R2 2018.

It?s not going to happen though, wishful thinking from me to have wanted better than the dispirited, distracted, disorganised shit we?ve been getting, which is a shame because I?ve put my membership on it and will be true to my word. Ah well.

I?ll be at Geelong and barracking for a win regardless.

[soupman]

I'm just tired of feeling like watching us is a chore. I want us to win, and want us to play finals, and I guess I believe we could do something in finals, but mostly i just believe we are going to be disappointing again and instead of being fun it's just gonna be a grind.

Last week (and this) are maybe the first games ever I haven't made any real effort to make sure I watch. If I happen to be free I'll watch, but usually I plan my weekend around being able to see it.

So I guess part of me doesn't want to play finals just so that I don't have this burden of having to try to get excited for what I actually believe will be a repeat of the vast majority of our other elimination finals; a frustrating and turgid display that even if it seems to be going well (as in the Freo game) will end with me feeling flat.

I guess I've just lost the optimism that I usually have, and while winning this week would be fun and finals are always worth playing I won't be overly unhappy to be free of having to think about them.

[Rocket Science]

yes, we lost to the bottom team and we SHOULD have won easily, but it was close and but for a bit of luck we could have won...they ARE trying. They AREN'T playing well...but they ARE trying.

Did you happen to catch Johnno's chat with Cornes about our effort levels MJP?

Because he's not so sure.

[bulldogtragic]

My guess is main reasons for that :

1.)Might mean drastic change doesn't occur.
2.)The thought of a Carlton pantsing in a final.
C.)Higher draft position.

The only one I agree with is 2.

Something like that, but for far more in depth and complicated reasons. Don?t have energy to get it into them.

I?m just sick of this season and regret coming to footy to watching this team. I want this over and I see no benefit to winning, as I don?t think we make finals. If by fluke we did, another public embarrassment in finals would just be gut wrenching. So for a range of reasons, I?d just prefer to take the loss and accept our fate.

I just want this season dragged into the back paddock and have a bullet put in it. A loss does that while ensuring the required heat stays on and frankly we could do with a better pick as a very minor silver lining.

Rhode & BMAC years were shit. But this season for me is one of the worst cluster ****s and worst and unenjoyable season for me. Hence, put me out of misery tomorrow night.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's akin to a toxic ex.

You keep hoping it'll get better, there's glimmers of hope that it will, but ultimately you wind up angry, disappointed, and dejected.

I just want the curtain drawn on this era. Footy hasn't been fun for a long while and I see no joy in delaying change another 2 weeks.

[jeemak]

It's hard to articulate in words, though I reckon we all take football way too seriously, and the media saturation makes it all feel worse than it actually is when things aren't going great.

Again, it's hard to put into words exactly though post 2016 when things didn't go exactly how we thought they might we've collectively not taken it at all well. Almost akin to having our toys taken away from us.

Sometimes I think we need to get a grip. Sometimes passion can spill over into something unhealthy, and I feel that's where we're at.

[angelopetraglia]

It's hard to articulate in words, though I reckon we all take football way too seriously, and the media saturation makes it all feel worse than it actually is when things aren't going great.

Again, it's hard to put into words exactly though post 2016 when things didn't go exactly how we thought they might we've collectively not taken it at all well. Almost akin to having our toys taken away from us.

Sometimes I think we need to get a grip. Sometimes passion can spill over into something unhealthy, and I feel that's where we're at.

Once we got got to feel the dopamine of Premiership ecstasy, everything else since isn?t enough to sustain us. Winning isn?t enough. Finals are not enough. Grand Finals are not enough. It all pales into insignificance. A state of football depression has engulfed us.

Just give me another Premiership and I promise I will be happy, for at least a few weeks ?..

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I actually haven't watched a game since the Bombers match. I don't prioritise our games anymore. This group constantly fails to deliver and let's us all down. The same issues have been around a long while. I felt they would inevitably happen again and they have. Although even I never thought we'd lose to west Coast.

We're an absolute shambles at the moment. Plummeting into a firey mess. Although I also think we could turn it around relatively quickly with some shrewd recruiting and personnel changes. Ones that should have happened 1-2 years ago. I think we're way too slow to react. This is as much on the field as it is off it.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Once we got got to feel the dopamine of Premiership ecstasy, everything else since isn?t enough to sustain us. Winning isn?t enough. Finals are not enough. Grand Finals are not enough. It all pales into insignificance. A state of football depression has engulfed us.

Just give me another Premiership and I promise I will be happy, for at least a few weeks ?..

We all expected a dynasty due to our young talent. We expected to become a powerhouse. Not only did it not happen, we absolutely crumbled away.

Yes we can't expect premiership after premiership. But we also shouldn't compare to our wretched past. We can and should be able to match it with the best and we've failed miserably since 2016.

[azabob]

Could be worse folks. We could go for the Bombers….

How’s our week one finals team looking? ;)

[Hotdog60]

Come rain, hail or shine to me its about the team and not the personnel behind it. I don't have favorites as such but there are players I like to watch and coaches I have time for Rocket was one and so is Bevo.
But I don't get attached to the people in the club because it can change so much so I will watch us till they are carrying out on a stretcher never to return.
Don't get me wrong I can curse and swear with the best of them but once the dust settles I'm anyways looking forward to the next game.
Go Doggies.

[1eyedog]

This is like 1980 with Kelvin Templeton when we were crap except we have half a team of Kelvin Templeton's and we're still crap.

I'm too old for this shit.

[jeemak]

We all expected a dynasty due to our young talent. We expected to become a powerhouse. Not only did it not happen, we absolutely crumbled away.

Yes we can't expect premiership after premiership. But we also shouldn't compare to our wretched past. We can and should be able to match it with the best and we've failed miserably since 2016.

We made a grand final in 2021. If that's failing miserably I think that's a great example of what I was trying to say.

[Go_Dogs]

How?s our week one finals team looking? ;)

Can?t wait to give it a bump.

[Mofra]

We made a grand final in 2021. If that's failing miserably I think that's a great example of what I was trying to say.
Like many others here, I saw 7 losing prelims in a row. So I'll put my hand up to being grateful we got Bevo.

Traditionally, teams that get belted in a GF fall away for a couple of years.
See Sydney this year, us in 2022, GWS 2020, Adelaide 2018, Freo 2014, etc.

We're not a significant outlier based on 2022 & 2023 form.