Where does the improvement come from in 2024?

[bulldogtragic]

Keath is cooked
Duryea is cooked
TOB?s body isn?t up to it
Baker is fringe
VDM while regularly selected isn?t consistent and can?t be relied upon

JJ is another year on
Liam Jones is another year on
Lobb is another year on
Libba is another year on
Treloar is a year on

Macrae is a shadow of himself
Smith might not be around or at best can?t be certain to improve

Khamis will kick nearly 40 in the VFL but will be out
Sweet is the dominant VFL ruck but will be out

With no debuts this year, we don?t know what Buss, Clarke or Gags can do

Naughton still can?t kick bags or more than 50 a season
JUH struggles from 35m out now

Ed & Dale probably can?t get better, same for English is he stays on

Who knows where Daniel plays

Weightman is becoming quite inconsistent

You wouldn?t bet the farm on Poulter or Williams dominating next year

Effort seems conditional generally



Darcy is a bright light but his body hasn?t yet been shown to be durable

JOD looks good, but is a second year player

Bont is Bont, but Ward shows you need to tag him hard



So how do we find improvement to get back into the finals and not fall further down the ladder? I?m not readily seeing how this gets better before it gets much worse.

[angelopetraglia]

Keath is cooked
Duryea is cooked
TOB?s body isn?t up to it
Baker is fringe
VDM while regularly selected isn?t consistent and can?t be relied upon

JJ is another year on
Liam Jones is another year on
Lobb is another year on
Libba is another year on
Treloar is a year on

Macrae is a shadow of himself
Smith might not be around or at best can?t be certain to improve

Khamis will kick nearly 40 in the VFL but will be out
Sweet is the dominant VFL ruck but will be out

With no debuts this year, we don?t know what Buss, Clarke or Gags can do

Naughton still can?t kick bags or more than 50 a season
JUH struggles from 35m out now

Ed & Dale probably can?t get better, same for English is he stays on

Who knows where Daniel plays

Weightman is becoming quite inconsistent

You wouldn?t bet the farm on Poulter or Williams dominating next year

Effort seems conditional generally



Darcy is a bright light but his body hasn?t yet been shown to be durable

JOD looks good, but is a second year player

Bont is Bont, but Ward shows you need to tag him hard



So how do we find improvement to get back into the finals and not fall further down the ladder? I?m not readily seeing how this gets better before it gets much worse.

That is definitely a glass is half empty analysis. A strawman. Maybe we need to do a steelman view to balance it.

[bulldogtragic]

That is definitely a glass is half empty analysis. A strawman. Maybe we need to do a steelman view to balance it.

Feel free to counter these points. I’m listening.

[angelopetraglia]

Steelman view below

Keath is cooked Yes. Looks like it. Can he recpature his 2021 form?
Duryea is cooked Hard to mount any argument against this
TOB?s body isn?t up to itMaybe one more year post knee op he can get better
Baker is fringe He showed some positive elements in a few games. Has a penetrating kick.
VDM while regularly selected isn?t consistent and can?t be relied upon Has the athletic attrbutes to play the game. Pace and running ability. He has not had a solid run at it with constant injuries. With a solid preseason we may see an improvement.

JJ is another year on Yes. But he showed this year he still has it. Just needs his body to coperate.
Liam Jones is another year on Yes. But he proved he has some good footy left.
Lobb is another year on Only 30. Still young for a big man. Look at Max Gawn. His last game was a great way to finish.
Libba is another year on Has showed zero signs of slowing down. Probably his best year.
Treloar is a year on Great sign that his body held up for most of the season. Played some great footy at times.

Macrae is a shadow of himself Had a poor year. But super consistent in the years and years prior. Was he carrying something? Can he get back to his prior form?
Smith might not be around or at best can?t be certain to improve Had an interrupted preseason. Full pre-season in our brand new facility, who knows how good he can be.

Khamis will kick nearly 40 in the VFL but will be out Agree
Sweet is the dominant VFL ruck but will be out Agree

With no debuts this year, we don?t know what Buss, Clarke or Gags can do Hard to judge as we did not see the at senior level, but all showed something in the VFL

Naughton still can?t kick bags or more than 50 a season The way we gave our forward line service this year we didn't exactly give him a great chance. He fights for every ball in the air and on the ground. Best football is still ahead of him. Probably the best contested mark in the game.
JUH struggles from 35m out now He is 21. Can be anything. Has not even gone close to his potential yet. Massive upside

Ed & Dale probably can?t get better, same for English is he stays on Dale didn't have his best year. Can he recapture his AA form? Ed can and will get better. English is still young for a ruckman. Look at the Gawn progression.

Who knows where Daniel plays He is versaitle! Good asset to have.

Weightman is becoming quite inconsistent 11 tackles in his last game. If he can bring that pressure every week we would look like a different team. Also, one of the most accurate shots on goal in the history of the game. Still young with plenty of upside.

You wouldn?t bet the farm on Poulter or Williams dominating next year No. But who knows what Poulter's upside is with a full AFL preseason. He showed plenty of promosing sides.

Effort seems conditional generally Lots of upside with consitent effort.



Darcy is a bright light but his body hasn?t yet been shown to be durable He hasn't stopped growing. He has showed enough that he has the assets to be a superstar. He has to get some luck with his body, surely.

JOD looks good, but is a second year player JOD was amazing. What a first year. What can he do with a full AFL preseason.

Bont is Bont, but Ward shows you need to tag him hard Bont could win he Bronwlow. An absolute star of the game still in his absolute prime.



So how do we find improvement to get back into the finals and not fall further down the ladder? I?m not readily seeing how this gets better before it gets much worse.

[GVGjr]

From a player perspective there is still a lot to get excited about but there real improvement should come from a restructured football department.

I look at the way that Ugle-Hagan improved his marking this year and if there is no doubt further improvement he can make and he will be a hell of a player for opposition teams to counter going forward. He can be a 40 goal a season forward next year.

Darcy is going to be a heck of a player for us and after two wretched years managing injuries and disruptions to his career I'm very bullish of his ability to come in and be a solid player for us.

Weightman had an up and down season and we just need to find a couple of games more where he performs at the higher end and his 34 goal season could easily be a 40 goal season.

We got nothing from new draftees Busslinger, Clarke and Gallagher but that will change next year and they'll add some depth to our squad.

O'Donnell finished the season strongly and after a full pre-season I can see him being a regular defender for us and his ability to intercept a real weapon for us.

Poulter makes a few errors but acquitted himself pretty well. To me there is some upside there.

I think we will see better versions of English and Lobb in 2024.

There is a still a bit to get excited about especially if Naughton and Richards can kick it up a bit next season.
The challenge comes for us to find a way of solving the rubik cube that is Bailey Smith and if we can achieve that it will be a huge boost for the side.

[angelopetraglia]

Weightman is another who also had an injury interrupted start to the season. Makes it really difficult to find your best footy.

[angelopetraglia]

Treloar also had ankle surgery and had an interrupted preseason. If you factor that disruption in, he had one heck of a season. He can get better with a full preseason.

[angelopetraglia]

Another positive for improvement. We have extra weeks to prepare than all the teams who made finals. That is a massive advantage. Four teams from the outside the finals made the finals this year.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

A new game plan.

[macca]

From a player perspective there is still a lot to get excited about but there real improvement should come from a restructured football department.

I want to see improvement on the non-player side of things:
1. get in some assistant that is going to challenge Bevo and some of the sh!$%!t tactics used . Get in a Leppitsch type of coach. Have a game plan that makes it harder to get out of the forward line.

2. overhaul the strengthening and conditioning. Why are so many of our players getting soft tissue injuries ?
Its a big concern our younger players are injured more often than not.

3. Young player development : I want to see more upside in our younger players and ingrain in them some aggression and intensity

4. Goal kicking especially under fatigue, maybe that should be point 1, priority 1.

5. tackling and some ferocity. Maybe the new high tackle do not sling rule has changed how hard players go in for tackles? Something has dropped off with the team's intensity this year. Too many games bad starts or let other teams start a 5 goal run.

6. Stop this swinging players around in different positions. Get them settled in one position of their strength and work at it all season. I want to see West more in the midfield. If Libba gets injured for a month, we are totally screwed.

I am not going to comment anymore on list management apart from we need to cut deep this year, at least 8 fringe players need to be cut, and 2 leaving ( Buku and SweeT). Richmond finished 9th in 2009 the year they pickedup Martin , but they let go a whole heap of players. They bottomed out for 2 years. IT was the building blocks to their next preimership(s)

[Danjul]

2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, 2023. Five poor seasons that collectively revealed what not to do. (and don?t give me that rubbish that 8th is a great result)

Saturday August 25 2023 7:30pm. Geelong showed us what to do.

A makeshift team had us on the ropes for an hour. Unable to deliver a knock out blow they faded as many hoped.

In that hour they displayed positioning and synchronised movement that made old players look young and young players look experienced. We need our coaching staff to display some humility and learn a little about how the game has evolved.

If they can?t bear to learn from Geelong then review how West Coast got ahead so quickly the week before.

Time for egos to be set aside and some genuine thinking to be done.

Maybe that will give us a basis for getting out of the hole the club has been enthusiastically digging.

Personally I don?t expect it to happen. That?s what I learnt from those 5 years.

[hujsh]

It can't be individuals that propel the team forward. We had multiple players have maybe career best years but that alone didn't do much. The TEAM has to improve and the individual performances will flow from that.

[Danjul]

Wightman is another who also had an injury interrupted start to the season. Makes it really difficult to find your best footy.

Weightman got a total of 3 goals in 4 consecutive games at the end of the season, GWS to West Coast.

He got 15 in 4 games in the middle. Port to Collingwood. He found his best footy. He lost it again.

(His problem was game plan not injury.)

[GVGjr]

I want to see improvement on the non-player side of things:
1. get in some assistant that is going to challenge Bevo and some of the sh!$%!t tactics used . Get in a Leppitsch type of coach. Have a game plan that makes it harder to get out of the forward line.

2. overhaul the strengthening and conditioning. Why are so many of our players getting soft tissue injuries ?
Its a big concern our younger players are injured more often than not.

3. Young player development : I want to see more upside in our younger players and ingrain in them some aggression and intensity

4. Goal kicking especially under fatigue, maybe that should be point 1, priority 1.

5. tackling and some ferocity. Maybe the new high tackle do not sling rule has changed how hard players go in for tackles? Something has dropped off with the team's intensity this year. Too many games bad starts or let other teams start a 5 goal run.

6. Stop this swinging players around in different positions. Get them settled in one position of their strength and work at it all season. I want to see West more in the midfield. If Libba gets injured for a month, we are totally screwed.

I am not going to comment anymore on list management apart from we need to cut deep this year, at least 8 fringe players need to be cut, and 2 leaving ( Buku and SweeT). Richmond finished 9th in 2009 the year they pickedup Martin , but they let go a whole heap of players. They bottomed out for 2 years. IT was the building blocks to their next preimership(s)

I'd like to challenge a few of those points Macca but I see where you are coming from.

1) Our assistant coaches would be challenging Bevo and that is part of the reason why we have them in place but the buck stops with the coach. They suggest and he decides what will be implemented. I don't think it's as easy as saying bring a Leppa in and it changes that dynamic.

2) It looked like a few of the clubs had an advantage in the strength and conditioning area. I know some have dismissed the Skinner Reserve experience and how it might have impacted the playing list but I saw first hand how many players were rotating through the rehab group through a lot of the pre-season and I'd say we lost a lot of momentum there.

3) Player development is a key area and I agree the challenge is more with our younger group. Not having a home ground for the players rotating through at Footscray can't have helped us despite Footscrays impressive late season run.

4) It's not just fatigue, we miss very gettable goals early in quarters and in games. Definitely an area we need to fix and we shouldn't be shy about bringing in someone from outside of the club if it's going to help. This is a technique challenge.

5) Our tackling could improve but I don't think it's a technique based challenge for us.

6) Moving players around needs to happen but you can't be a midfielder at Footscray for a number of weeks racking up possessions and come in and play on a forward flank and expect the same form outline.

I'll add that selection integrity needs to improve, it's one of the areas we have struggled with for a few seasons now.

[jeemak]

It's really hard to nominate specific coaching elements that will make us better. We need to be a resourced as thoroughly as we can be in the footy department and back that to give the players the best opportunity to thrive.

As for the players, they need to be accountable and stop being so ****ing soft and flaky. Their bullshit has cost people their jobs and will continue to do so until the club settles.

The game plan and the messaging was good enough for ten rounds after round two. They played to it with intent and our indicators and results were excellent.

It boggles the mind to think anything else other than player intent and commitment changed. Just like in previous seasons where we showed good results could be achieved. They need hard truths, they need to own their performance. Bevo backs them in and they shit all over it, sometimes, and then don't. I want them to be managed way more closely, given hard and direct feedback - it's time they grew up and stopped being unaccountable for their bullshit fluctuations in game, week to week.

Cody has eleven tackles last night after a really shit effort that cost us a goal. Do you really think it was coaching that made him be soft as butter in the fist instance, and do you really think it was coaching that made him tackle better afterwards?

Marra literally doesn't try for a few quarters, but then steps up. Must have been bad coaching in the first instance, and then good coaching in the last right? It's bullshit, it's up to him and his effort - he's the only person who can control that.

Does coaching make players choose to run back after a few goals against, or is it up to the players from the get go?

It's time to work these ****ing guys harder and more ruthlessly. They've had it their way, it's not worked, and it's now time to sort them out.

[jeemak]

And if that means that Bailey Smith needs to get a ****ing hair cut and not be on socials or doing modelling work, then **** it, the guy needs to get a hair cut and stop modelling and get off socials or he can **** off.

It's not a leisure event, it's AFL football and a privilege to play for our football club at the highest level.

Seriously, it's so obvious to see because it's all on them when you can clearly see the difference if they decide to try, or they don't. Mollycoddled and entitled wankers.

That video of them being abused was terrible, but at the same time I'm actually glad they got a dose. The bubble they exist in needs bursting sometimes. They need to get back to planet earth and understand that at the elite level, where they're lucky to be in the position they're in comes with a trade off where giving effort and concentrating is permission to play, not a value add.

[hujsh]

It's really hard to nominate specific coaching elements that will make us better. We need to be a resourced as thoroughly as we can be in the footy department and back that to give the players the best opportunity to thrive.

As for the players, they need to be accountable and stop being so ****ing soft and flaky. Their bullshit has cost people their jobs and will continue to do so until the club settles.

The game plan and the messaging was good enough for ten rounds after round two. They played to it with intent and our indicators and results were excellent.

It boggles the mind to think anything else other than player intent and commitment changed. Just like in previous seasons where we showed good results could be achieved. They need hard truths, they need to own their performance. Bevo backs them in and they shit all over it, sometimes, and then don't. I want them to be managed way more closely, given hard and direct feedback - it's time they grew up and stopped being unaccountable for their bullshit fluctuations in game, week to week.

Cody has eleven tackles last night after a really shit effort that cost us a goal. Do you really think it was coaching that made him be soft as butter in the fist instance, and do you really think it was coaching that made him tackle better afterwards?

Marra literally doesn't try for a few quarters, but then steps up. Must have been bad coaching in the first instance, and then good coaching in the last right? It's bullshit, it's up to him and his effort - he's the only person who can control that.

Does coaching make players choose to run back after a few goals against, or is it up to the players from the get go?

It's time to work these ****ing guys harder and more ruthlessly. They've had it their way, it's not worked, and it's now time to sort them out.

If there's any truth that the players were upset to have lost Rowan as a coach and that impacted their performance... well that is partly on them isn't it?

Hadn't thought of it from that perspective before as there's a pretty strong narrative about the coaches being at fault. They might be. They aren't alone though

[jeemak]

If there's any truth that the players were upset to have lost Rowan as a coach and that impacted their performance... well that is partly on them isn't it?

Hadn't thought of it from that perspective before as there's a pretty strong narrative about the coaches being at fault. They might be. They aren't alone though

Our defence was good enough in 2021, it was good enough for ten games or so this year. Even more.

There's changes in personnel that make a difference, but at the same time it's not like every AFL team is running their own defence that's unique to their own club.

The principles that apply to Collingwood and us, or St Kilda and the Blues are the same.

However, the biggest element in all of it is whether the players decide to execute it or otherwise. Ours did/ have done sometimes to great effect, but also haven't and guys like Smith are collateral.

They're arseholes.

The biggest change in my view needs to be about how we manage the effort and egos. Get everyone to buy in to whatever is on the table and be consistent with it.

[Vred]

Where does our improvement come from in 2024?
For me it's all about coaching and game plan, nothing else.

I do think we have the majority of the pieces (maybe missing one good winger and lockdown small) but honestly, we need a complete change in gameplan and game-style.

Fix these and we' can push top 4.

[jeemak]

Being single point sensitive to Liam Jones and not having any continuity in our back six really hurt us this year.

Fluctuating effort in our forward half and not protecting the defence with decent forward pressure left whatever was left terribly exposed.

[FrediKanoute]

Where to start!

This year Lobb was supposed to improve us and provide the missing link, with another year into English, JUH, B Smith meaning we had the right blend of experience and youth. This didn't materialise. Unlucky run with injuries, form, game plan isues and finally just attitude.

So how does it turn around?

Wins this year:

1) Jones - what a difference he made to our defence;
2) West - cemented his spot in the 22 and increased midfield minutes;
3) JUH - showed really good progress
4) English - has finally arrived as a ruckman
6) JJ to the backline - wow

Busts

1) Smith - was a bust this year. Went backwards.
2) Macrae - not his usual year
3) bACKLINE - just so unsettled all year with players coming in and out due to form and injury
4) Goalkicking - its not just missing goals, but also missing clutch goals at key points
5) Lobb - whilst the last game helps square the leger a little, for what we paid he is a bust
6) Lack of player development - did anyone emerge this year (West aside?)

How do we improve in 2024?

a) New coach - really believe that Bevo's useby date is up
b) New Assistants - if you wont change the coach then change the assistants
c) Select on form and merit - gifting games to guys who haven't earnt them doesn't do anyone any good.
d) Play players in positions - settle guys down and let them develop. Yes versatility is important, but becming expert in your role is key to overall improvement.

[SonofScray]

Hopefully a fit Garcia presses for selection again.
Cleary can develop and fill a role in a backline that was a house of cards.
We desperately need to nail draft picks and get at least one young, quick midfielder in the mix who can push for selection early.
Goalkicking.


The biggest improvement will come from a change in coach and moving away from the disorganised, distracted, footy he has us playing.

[ReLoad]

A tagger.

An actual lock down, shut someone down, do a job tagger.

It would make a huge difference to our team and change the free reign opposition coaches have against us.

[bulldogtragic]

A tagger.

An actual lock down, shut someone down, do a job tagger.

It would make a huge difference to our team and change the free reign opposition coaches have against us.

I agree. But Bevo has refused a traditional tagger for 9 years. Why would his 10th (should the club avoid the decision to move him on) season see him abandon his core beliefs?

We take Bevo for good and bad. No tagger, his ruck ideas, some selection favourites and a general stubbornness. That got him to two GFs. Also never got us top 4 and some very disappointing seasons. To radically change what we do, I can only see a new head coach doing it. Bevo being effectively forced into changing things he doesn’t believe in doesn’t seem like it would work to me.

But you’re dead right. I wonder what our arson looks like if Finn Macguiness was playing for us. Probably finals at a minimum. But that thinking is not our guy for the next two contracted seasons.

[GVGjr]

If there's any truth that the players were upset to have lost Rowan as a coach and that impacted their performance... well that is partly on them isn't it?

Hadn't thought of it from that perspective before as there's a pretty strong narrative about the coaches being at fault. They might be. They aren't alone though

Smith was a popular coach from the playing group perspective and he was a tremendous communicator with his training drills etc so much like in any professional environment once the news comes that a popular boss would be departing it would have been felt by some and in this instance but the wider group. Seeing Rohan run into the change rooms at 3 quarter time at Ballarat to check on Josh Bruce showed he was very invested in his players. He will be missed but we appear to be heading in another direction and the players and other coaches need to move on.

[MrMahatma]

I?m sure we train for it, but finding an approach to winning the close ones would turn it around.

If you look at Collingwood last season, compared to us this season, the close ones killed us. We prob shouldn?t have been in close battles with some, but still could?ve finished much higher on the ladder if we even won 50% of those under 2 goals.

[Bullies]

Another positive for improvement. We have extra weeks to prepare than all the teams who made finals. That is a massive advantage. Four teams from the outside the finals made the finals this year. Also a big plus is we are no longer at Skinners Reserve. Massive plus.

[macca]

A tagger.

An actual lock down, shut someone down, do a job tagger.

It would make a huge difference to our team and change the free reign opposition coaches have against us.

Play Toby mclean in this role , he has enough footy IQ to hurt opposition when he gets the ball.
If Deboer can play ay GWS when tbey were marching towards prelims , Toby has him covered

[Hot_Doggies]

We need to add speed to the midfield, McLean is not the answer

[bornadog]

A new game plan.

I agree with TBB, a new game plan and throw in some new players that will fill some gaps.

Our game plan is to dominate possession and force a stoppage to win the clearance then bombard the inside 50s. As soon as other teams start dominating possession, we can't seem to get the ball back. We need a re think of this and come up with something better that fits the modern game. Collingwood, Melbourne have shown if you move the ball quickly from the backline forward you win games. We did this briefly in a couple of game, like the first quarter of the Richmond game and kicked 9.

[Bullies]

Play Toby mclean in this role , he has enough footy IQ to hurt opposition when he gets the ball.
If Deboer can play ay GWS when tbey were marching towards prelims , Toby has him covered We are better off developing and educating a player who is going to become a mid fielder. Have them play run with roles and at the same time develop their own game. Have them learn of the best going around and the next step for them is to become a mid in their own right. Maybe West if he has the tank.

[Sedat]

Where does our improvement come from in 2024?
For me it's all about coaching and game plan, nothing else.

I do think we have the majority of the pieces (maybe missing one good winger and lockdown small) but honestly, we need a complete change in gameplan and game-style.

Fix these and we' can push top 4.
Agree with this but the players also need to buy in to whatever game plan we adopt for 2024.

There is a lot of talent on the list, and there is also some really good pieces developing in key position stocks. We do have holes (midfield depth, running power/burst from stoppage, lock-down defender) but they are not insurmountable.

[hujsh]

Smith was a popular coach from the playing group perspective and he was a tremendous communicator with his training drills etc so much like in any professional environment once the news comes that a popular boss would be departing it would have been felt by some and in this instance but the wider group. Seeing Rohan run into the change rooms at 3 quarter time at Ballarat to check on Josh Bruce showed he was very invested in his players. He will be missed but we appear to be heading in another direction and the players and other coaches need to move on.

Don't argue with any of that. Smith sounds a bit like a sacrificial lamb. If the players had kept their end of the bargain there wouldn't be a need for a sacrifice. Didn't exactly prove the club wrong in the following weeks either, only justified the decision further.

[azabob]

Not sure how to word this but our onfield leaders other than Bontempelli seem to suck at influencing the players on ground during the match.

Unsure why but since Bontempelli has become captain we have had too many players cycle through the leadership positions.

Unsure how we fix that or improve for 2024.

[bornadog]

Not sure how to word this but our onfield leaders other than Bontempelli seem to suck at influencing the players on ground during the match.

Unsure why but since Bontempelli has become captain we have had too many players cycle through the leadership positions.

Unsure how we fix that or improve for 2024.

Duryea is certainly a leader in the back line. I think we need someone in the forward line to be more of a leader. Naughton needs to step up more, he is already part of the leadership group.

[D Mitchell]

Don't argue with any of that. Smith sounds a bit like a sacrificial lamb. If the players had kept their end of the bargain there wouldn't be a need for a sacrifice. Didn't exactly prove the club wrong in the following weeks either, only justified the decision further.

Why was Smith not renewed ? That's not clear. He was responsible for the backline, which hasn't performed particularly well for the last 2 years but Bev apparently wanted him to stay. His departure doesn't make any sense if the coach wants him to stay. Losses of less than 2 goals occurred in 6 games (I read that, somewhere). All that was needed was a win in one of them. Is that the fault of defence ? Who made the decision ? Perhaps it's Admin and/or Board are overstepping their areas of expertise or competence.

[lemmon]

Duryea is certainly a leader in the back line. I think we need someone in the forward line to be more of a leader. Naughton needs to step up more, he is already part of the leadership group.

Completely disagree with that. Naughton throwing himself around on Saturday night and his willingness to harass and chase is absolutely leadership. That big mark on the wing for a ball that he had no right to get to was leadership. He misses opportunities in front of goal (so does Bont), but I think he sets a huge example for that forward-line in the way he goes about his footy.

[bornadog]

Completely disagree with that. Naughton throwing himself around on Saturday night and his willingness to harass and chase is absolutely leadership. That big mark on the wing for a ball that he had no right to get to was leadership. He misses opportunities in front of goal (so does Bont), but I think he sets a huge example for that forward-line in the way he goes about his footy.

No doubt he leads by example, what I should have made clear is leadership through organising and directing the forward setup. Just like Duryea does in the backline.

[Critter]

Completely disagree with that. Naughton throwing himself around on Saturday night and his willingness to harass and chase is absolutely leadership. That big mark on the wing for a ball that he had no right to get to was leadership. He misses opportunities in front of goal (so does Bont), but I think he sets a huge example for that forward-line in the way he goes about his footy.

Spot on! There are two players who give their absolute all in their attack on the ball in the forward line, Naughton and Weightman. But for Aaron Naughton, our win/loss ratio this year would be significantly worse. Our problems are in our game plan. Our challenge is to develop a forward game plan that takes maximum advantage from Naughton and Ugle-Hagen. They are Ying and Yang, one plays chaos ball and the other works to patterns; both are elite.

Perhaps small forwards can better read the play from Jamarra's leads and contests than from Aaron's chaos play, so play Jamarra closer to goal. (This certainly looked the case in the second half of the North Melbourne game, when Naughton went to CHB and Weightman worked beautifully around JUH and Rory Lobb to kick 6 goals after half time.) Use Naughton higher up the ground where we can reap advantage from his ability to win contests, be they marking or ground ball. He is blessed with great stamina, similar to Jeremy Cameron, so let him run and watch lumbering KPDs try to keep up with him.

[Mantis]

Spot on! There are two players who give their absolute all in their attack on the ball in the forward line, Naughton and Weightman. But for Aaron Naughton, our win/loss ratio this year would be significantly worse. Our problems are in our game plan. Our challenge is to develop a forward game plan that takes maximum advantage from Naughton and Ugle-Hagen. They are Ying and Yang, one plays chaos ball and the other works to patterns; both are elite.

Perhaps small forwards can better read the play from Jamarra's leads and contests than from Aaron's chaos play, so play Jamarra closer to goal. (This certainly looked the case in the second half of the North Melbourne game, when Naughton went to CHB and Weightman worked beautifully around JUH and Rory Lobb to kick 6 goals after half time.) Use Naughton higher up the ground where we can reap advantage from his ability to win contests, be they marking or ground ball. He is blessed with great stamina, similar to Jeremy Cameron, so let him run and watch lumbering KPDs try to keep up with him.

That's all good & well, but his field kicking is well below standard and the amount of turnovers that would come from him would be nightmare fuel for us all.

[D Mitchell]

It's really hard to nominate specific coaching elements that will make us better. We need to be a resourced as thoroughly as we can be in the footy department and back that to give the players the best opportunity to thrive.

As for the players, they need to be accountable and stop being so ****ing soft and flaky. Their bullshit has cost people their jobs and will continue to do so until the club settles.

The game plan and the messaging was good enough for ten rounds after round two. They played to it with intent and our indicators and results were excellent.

It boggles the mind to think anything else other than player intent and commitment changed. Just like in previous seasons where we showed good results could be achieved. They need hard truths, they need to own their performance. Bevo backs them in and they shit all over it, sometimes, and then don't. I want them to be managed way more closely, given hard and direct feedback - it's time they grew up and stopped being unaccountable for their bullshit fluctuations in game, week to week.

Cody has eleven tackles last night after a really shit effort that cost us a goal. Do you really think it was coaching that made him be soft as butter in the fist instance, and do you really think it was coaching that made him tackle better afterwards?

Marra literally doesn't try for a few quarters, but then steps up. Must have been bad coaching in the first instance, and then good coaching in the last right? It's bullshit, it's up to him and his effort - he's the only person who can control that.

Does coaching make players choose to run back after a few goals against, or is it up to the players from the get go?

It's time to work these ****ing guys harder and more ruthlessly. They've had it their way, it's not worked, and it's now time to sort them out.

Agree with all of that. A reminder that 6 games were lost by less than a goal. Even if there is no change in the playing list, the coaching team even training regime, with just a smidgeon of your tough love applied, top 4 is possible.

[Sedat]

The assumption seems to be that Weightman is a traditional small pressure forward. He's not. He is basically our Jamie Elliot. If we think he is suddenly going to morph into a pressure tackling machine inside F50 like a Cyril Rioli, that's not really his bag.

It's a clear gap in our list at the moment. Artie Jones has the tools to fill that gap but he's not there yet physically or consistently (interestingly, we had our best form stretch this season when Arty was in the team and impacting defensively in F50). And shoe-horning natural mids in this position is not the answer either (eg: West, Garcia). When our pressure is down in F50 (and it often is), the oppo trampolines it out of there and can slingshot from D50 to scoring opportunities in a blink. It's an area of our game plan that clearly needs focus in the off-season.

[Grantysghost]

The assumption seems to be that Weightman is a traditional small pressure forward. He's not. He is basically our Jamie Elliot. If we think he is suddenly going to morph into a pressure tackling machine inside F50 like a Cyril Rioli, that's not really his bag.

It's a clear gap in our list at the moment. Artie Jones has the tools to fill that gap but he's not there yet physically or consistently. And shoe-horning natural mids in this position is not the answer either (eg: West, Garcia). When our pressure is down in F50 (and it often is), the oppo trampolines it out of there and can slingshot from D50 to scoring opportunities in a blink. Its's an area of our game plan that needs to be rectified in the off-season.

Isnt Arty a wingman? I don't think he's the right guy either.
We need the Wizard Watson.

[bulldogtragic]

The assumption seems to be that Weightman is a traditional small pressure forward. He's not. He is basically our Jamie Elliot. If we think he is suddenly going to morph into a pressure tackling machine inside F50 like a Cyril Rioli, that's not really his bag.

It's a clear gap in our list at the moment. Artie Jones has the tools to fill that gap but he's not there yet physically or consistently (interestingly, we had our best form stretch this season when Arty was in the team and impacting defensively in F50). And shoe-horning natural mids in this position is not the answer either (eg: West, Garcia). When our pressure is down in F50 (and it often is), the oppo trampolines it out of there and can slingshot from D50 to scoring opportunities in a blink. It's an area of our game plan that clearly needs focus in the off-season.

Lohmann.

[ReLoad]

Lohmann.

i watched him as the sub, thought he was ordinary at best!

[bulldogtragic]

i watched him as the sub, thought he was ordinary at best!

Watch him at VFL level. He needs continuity at the next level. Something he hasn’t got up there. Fast, natural forward who loves to tackle and defend.

[DOG GOD]

By your post BT we aren?t making finals for 2-3 years at least. I said before, the Bont era is over.

[Sedat]

Watch him at VFL level. He needs continuity at the next level. Something he hasn?t got up there. Fast, natural forward who loves to tackle and defend.
100%. He's not jumping the queue against any of Cameron, McCarthy, Bailey or Rayner. If he has a smart manager, he's moving this off-season and we are the ideal fit.

[hujsh]

Lohmann.

I know he's meant to be quick, but is pressure in his game?

[bulldogtragic]

By your post BT we aren?t making finals for 2-3 years at least. I said before, the Bont era is over.

I’m not prepared to bet we are back in sooner than two. And that involves a fully committed quick rebuild after some really tough decisions. I don’t think that’s happening. So maybe 3-4 years. I hope I’m wrong, but our age profile is old and our depth is poor and our imagination on what to do with players seems stunted. We will probably over pay to keep some players and continue to miss good trade targets. That leaves aside the issue the group looks broken since the 2021 GF and I’m not sure how we get around it.

[bulldogtragic]

I know he's meant to be quick, but is pressure in his game?

Yep. Averages 5 tackles a game the last 2 months in the VFL.

[hujsh]

The assumption seems to be that Weightman is a traditional small pressure forward. He's not. He is basically our Jamie Elliot. If we think he is suddenly going to morph into a pressure tackling machine inside F50 like a Cyril Rioli, that's not really his bag.

It's a clear gap in our list at the moment. Artie Jones has the tools to fill that gap but he's not there yet physically or consistently (interestingly, we had our best form stretch this season when Arty was in the team and impacting defensively in F50). And shoe-horning natural mids in this position is not the answer either (eg: West, Garcia). When our pressure is down in F50 (and it often is), the oppo trampolines it out of there and can slingshot from D50 to scoring opportunities in a blink. It's an area of our game plan that clearly needs focus in the off-season.

At his best that is a part of Weightman's game. His tacking isn't strong but pressure and smothers have been parts of his game since he initially cemented a spot in the side.

I think it has dropped off this year though and now there's a bit of a narrative that he's never been capable of it which I think is inaccurate.

Funnily enough VDM was doing that pressure job magnificently after halftime Saturday night but... where's that been previously?

[Sedat]

At his best that is a part of Weightman's game. His tacking isn't strong but pressure and smothers have been parts of his game since he initially cemented a spot in the side.

I think it has dropped off this year though and now there's a bit of a narrative that he's never been capable of it which I think is inaccurate.

Funnily enough VDM was doing that pressure job magnificently after halftime Saturday night but... where's that been previously?
He definitely has that capacity in him (so does Jamie Elliott) but he is also a marking target (like Elliott). He should be able to do both, you can walk and chew gum at the same time.

VDM did a very effective job blunting Stewart on the weekend, kudos to him. We've got him for another 2 years, so hopefully he can build on that performance so that he can become a bankable player in a specific role. Like a bargain basement Mitch Owens type.

[Critter]

Agree with all of that. A reminder that 6 games were lost by less than a goal. Even if there is no change in the playing list, the coaching team even training regime, with just a smidgeon of your tough love applied, top 4 is possible.

Mebbe, mebbe not. As the man in the Northern Territory TV ad said, you?ll never, never know if you never, never go. Our current forward structure is a honey pot approach. One honey pot and 36 bees all buzzing madly. That?s a hard space for any forward to work in. Let?s try something different.

Our problem is that we have no-one better for this role than Aaron Naughton. He?s our only key forward who can consistently win one-on-one. So we try it, measure the outcome and, if there?s a net benefit, we go with it. In the mean time we do something radical - like coaching his kicking technique. That?s another crazy idea - ?skills training?.

[Dry Rot]

Good OP, and I understand that this is not the thread to talk about a change of head coach, or some sort of hypothetical trades of established players in for say, English, and or Smith leaving.

As the OP states, many of our experienced players have hit their plateau whether that be high or low, and their immediate future is playing at that level or father time seeing them drop off.

So looking at our existing list and and excluding those players, I can only really see improvement coming from JOD, JUH, Weightman (getting more consistent), West, and Garcia. All that isn't going to make much of a difference.

Some of our star younger players have also in a sense hit a plateau: English is not going to get any more intensity and the way things are going, Naughton and Smith are not going to kick any better.

So unfortunately in the absence of a change of head coach and game plan etc, I see minimal improvement across the team and a continual slide down the ladder next year.

[GVGjr]

Why was Smith not renewed ? That's not clear. He was responsible for the backline, which hasn't performed particularly well for the last 2 years but Bev apparently wanted him to stay. His departure doesn't make any sense if the coach wants him to stay. Losses of less than 2 goals occurred in 6 games (I read that, somewhere). All that was needed was a win in one of them. Is that the fault of defence ? Who made the decision ? Perhaps it's Admin and/or Board are overstepping their areas of expertise or competence.

While I agree it's somewhat perplexing we need to view the bigger picture and see how we restructure the footy department rather than isolated cases. If Smith was contracted for 2024 I don't think we would have paid him out to move him on so the timing of an expiring contract hasn't worked for him. If we are also losing Webb, as SEN is reporting, then we will have a very refreshed coaching team in 2024. Lets see who they might be replaced with.

[bornadog]

Good OP, and I understand that this is not the thread to talk about a change of head coach, or some sort of hypothetical trades of established players in for say, English, and or Smith leaving.

As the OP states, many of our experienced players have hit their plateau whether that be high or low, and their immediate future is playing at that level or father time seeing them drop off.

So looking at our existing list and and excluding those players, I can only really see improvement coming from JOD, JUH, Weightman (getting more consistent), West, and Garcia. All that isn't going to make much of a difference.

Some of our star younger players have also in a sense hit a plateau: English is not going to get any more intensity and the way things are going, Naughton and Smith are not going to kick any better.

So unfortunately in the absence of a change of head coach and game plan etc, I see minimal improvement across the team and a continual slide down the ladder next year.

Hopefully these guys start to contribute - a good bunch of young talent



Cleary, Luke
21yr 5mth


Ugle-Hagan, Jamarra
21yr 4mth


Bedendo, Dominic
21yr 1mth


O'Donnell, James R
20yr 11mth


Raak, Cody R
20yr 10mth


Poulter, Caleb
20yr 10mth


Jones, Arthur
20yr 1mth


Darcy, Sam
20yr 1mth


Gallagher, Harvey
19yr 11mth


Clarke, Charlie
19yr 7mth


Busslinger, Jedd
19yr 5mth

[D Mitchell]

While I agree it's somewhat perplexing we need to view the bigger picture and see how we restructure the footy department rather than isolated cases. If Smith was contracted for 2024 I don't think we would have paid him out to move him on so the timing of an expiring contract hasn't worked for him. If we are also losing Webb, as SEN is reporting, then we will have a very refreshed coaching team in 2024. Lets see who they might be replaced with.

Bolded bit. Is restructure of the footy department for 2024 club policy or is it what forum contributors think ? If the former, who is responsible for
(a) the policy;
(b) why; and, more important
(c) its application ?

If it is policy and if the initiation and implementation is from the Board, then it's a concern. Unless out of the ordinary, Boards should not involve themselves in football operation matters.

[GVGjr]

Bolded bit. Is restructure of the footy department for 2024 club policy or is it what forum contributors think ? If the former, who is responsible for
(a) the policy;
(b) why; and, more important
(c) its application ?

If it is policy and if the initiation and implementation is from the Board, then it's a concern. Unless out of the ordinary, Boards should not involve themselves in football operation matters.

Just my guess but it's been reported that Bevo wanted to keep him and he nearly broke down when he responded to the media about Smith moving on. This means Bevo has been overruled and I assume a bigger restructure will occur.
We need to fix the loss of Chris Maple last year to the footy department set-up so it would appear we are also replacing two assistant coaches as well. It will be a very different footy department next season.

[Grantysghost]

Just my guess but it's been reported that Bevo wanted to keep him and he nearly broke down when he responded to the media about Smith moving on. This means Bevo has been overruled and I assume a bigger restructure will occur.
We need to fix the loss of Chris Maple last year to the footy department set-up so it would appear we are also replacing two assistant coaches as well. It will be a very different footy department next season.

If I was his manager I'd be really concerned about his mental health.
It's not his personal Clique, it's a business. The business of winning footy games.

Really raises an eyebrow for me.

People who actually have to make hard decisions make them more intellectually.

If your mate isn't coach next year isn't that big a deal ffs!

I'm becoming angrier at Bevo for some reason.

I blame SOS.

[kruder]

Talking of improvement any idea of when the players facilities part of the WO redevelopment will be complete? New digs will make that little bit of difference there is no doubt about it.

[bornadog]

Talking of improvement any idea of when the players facilities part of the WO redevelopment will be complete? New digs will make that little bit of difference there is no doubt about it.
Early next year

[Axe Man]

Mick McGuane: The good and bad of the non-finals teams and where they can get better in 2024 (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/mick-mcguane-the-good-and-bad-of-the-nonfinals-teams-and-where-they-can-get-better-in-2024/news-story/06e08ab6a7d5218304502a48fba95636)

WESTERN BULLDOGS

THE GOOD

The Bulldogs have aligned themselves to a brand of football that reflects teams like Melbourne.

They put a real emphasis on contested possession and clearance wins and gain great territory from those.

With a midfield brigade boasting the pre-eminent ruckman in the competition in Tim English, the Brownlow Medal favourite in Marcus Bontempelli and contested ball winning beast Tom Liberatore, it?s little surprise that the Bulldogs were again strong in these areas this year.

They ranked second in the competition for clearance differential and third for contested possession differential.

However, unlike the Demons, they?re not playing finals because other areas of their game are not up to scratch.

THE BAD

The Bulldogs? ball movement has been impacted by poor kicking and unforced errors this year, which have contributed to them ranking 15th in the competition for moving the ball from defensive-50 to inside-50.

Bailey Dale and Ed Richards are weapons off halfback who play with an attacking mindset, but skill execution lets them down at times.

The side?s forward line also needs a rejig, after ranking 10th in the competition for turning inside-50s into scores this season.

Beveridge must consider training Aaron Naughton as a defender over summer and playing an extra small in attack alongside Jamarra Ugle-Hagan or whoever is better form between Rory Lobb or Sam Darcy.

Playing too many talls means the frontline pressure from the Bulldogs has been poor and as good as Cody Weightman has been, he needs more help in that area of the ground.

[angelopetraglia]

"The Bulldogs? ball movement has been impacted by poor kicking and unforced errors this year, which have contributed to them ranking 15th in the competition for moving the ball from defensive-50 to inside-50."

That was a massive issue. It not only stopped us scoring, but it also is how most teams worked out that could score against us. Once we turned it over, the smart sides knew that they took chances with quick ball movement and if it got anywhere near out the back they were a MASSIVE chance to score.