To improve in 2024 we need less from Marcus Bontempelli

[Mofra]

The Bont - yes, he's great. Yes he's just had one of the best season a bulldog player has had.
Yes, he often carried the team this year. Yes he can do everything. And if he does it next year, we're screwed.

Our best years have been due to our 'extraordinary depth' in certain positions - rebounding defenders in the first couple of years in Bevo's reign, midfielders in 2021.
Right now it's Bont - a gap - Libba - a gap - Treloar - daylight. We play like under 15 kids who expect one or two stars to do all of the heavy lifting. It's hardly Bontempelli's fault, but if we are going to put all our eggs in one basket we're going to be a pretty easy team to stop next year.

We need to rest Bont at times away from the coalface. Rotate in the centre more heavily. Try and find a way of getting a more even contribution from the playing group so when the 22nd player gets a chance to really make the play, he does (instead of thinking 'my role is limited, let's see what the Bont does'). Our 'depth' comes in the form of forwardline quality - it actually works pretty well when we don't crowd the shit out of the F50. Our HFFs block exits rather than swamp the contest, even at repeat stoppages.

Bailey Smith gets more rotations, West & Garcia, as smaller hardnuts, gets their rotations. If we manage to draft a mid who earns his spot, they get a taste too. If it means Bontempelli gets statistically worse... well, it's a team game.

During Richmond's almost-threepeat, Cotchin's output dropped dramatically and Riewoldt went to he no 2 KPF option. I don't think they regret those roles at all.

I'm prepared to die on this hill.

[bulldogtragic]

Pretty sure Bont would take some finals wins over another AA too. If we can’t get a more even spread, as you say, we will continue to be predictable and thus more easily beaten. Plus he’s every bit of Pavlich, in that he could be great behind the ball and is a genuine threat up forward. Would be a luxury to see him able to hurt opponents in any and all areas of the ground.

[1eyedog]

You think this year was bad you reduce Bont's midfield minutes it's going to get a whole lot worse in 2024. Smith is a tattslotto ticket, Libba is on the edge of the cliff and Garcia is not even best 22 for for mine. We actually need Bont now more than ever.

There was also a certain someone called Dustin Martin and a very good enabler in Dion Prestia in Richmond's premiership wins and Riewoldt only started playing second fiddle when Lynch arrived.

I get the gist of the thread i.e. speading the load
but those players between 18-22 need to make a contribution for the right reasons and stop sweating on the hard work of others.

[Mofra]

You think this year was bad you reduce Bont's midfield minutes it's going to get a whole lot worse in 2024. Smith is a tattslotto ticket, Libba is on the edge of the cliff and Garcia is not even best 22 for for mine. We actually need Bont now more than ever.

There was also a certain someone called Dustin Martin and a very good enabler in Dion Prestia in Richmond's premiership wins and Riewoldt only started playing second fiddle when Lynch arrived.

I get the gist of the thread i.e. speading the load
but those players between 18-22 need to make a contribution for the right reasons and stop sweating on the hard work of others.
Well, we're in a chicken vs egg argument now - players can make more of a contribution when they get more opportunity to make a contribution.

Has there been a successful team since the late 90s that has relied on one player to constantly drag them across the line? I really can't think of one. If you look at our 2016 side, we still have nowhere near a consensus on the Norm Smith. 2nd in our B&F that year was a role player who had 1 brownlow vote for his entire 253 game career.

[Bulldog Joe]

I want Naughton doing some centre bounce work to add some explosive power to our rotations.

It would also get him away from all the scragging he gets forward.

We certainly need to change the mix to be less predictable. We probably don't lose to GWS in Ballarat if we could have thrown Naughton in the middle when Bont was being heavily tagged.

[josie]

I want Naughton doing some centre bounce work to add some explosive power to our rotations.

It would also get him away from all the scragging he gets forward.

We certainly need to change the mix to be less predictable. We probably don't lose to GWS in Ballarat if we could have thrown Naughton in the middle when Bont was being heavily tagged.

I like the idea. Cannot remember if we tried Cody there during that match.

[Hotdog60]

I think JUH needs to be FF and Naughton CHF and I think he maybe a better kick when he's not 10 meters out from goal it also gives space for JUH to lead into.
But I agree the team as a whole need to start owning their patch of grass.

[jeemak]

Smith and West need to have uninterrupted preseasons so they can be added more prominently to the rotational mix. Jacko needs to slim down and get a bit of spring back into his step and be put on the ball again.

Treloar is better at playing the forward who pushes up role than Jacko as well, and I'd revert back to having the latter being in the first choice of rotations.

Outside of that we need the middle tier and lower tiers to be more consistent in effort and output. There's no excuse for someone like Caleb Daniel to not get his hands on the footy. He's smart, and can run all day. Likewise Williams, it's in his head and he needs to repay the faith shown in him by the club with consistency in effort and concentration.

If these types of things happen and Bont still has massive influence, I'm OK with it.

[1eyedog]

Well, we're in a chicken vs egg argument now - players can make more of a contribution when they get more opportunity to make a contribution.

Has there been a successful team since the late 90s that has relied on one player to constantly drag them across the line? I really can't think of one. If you look at our 2016 side, we still have nowhere near a consensus on the Norm Smith. 2nd in our B&F that year was a role player who had 1 brownlow vote for his entire 253 game career.

Sure Aker in the early 2000s changed the face of two of Brisbane's flags. Won a Brownlow as well. Had some help sure but if you strip it back and really want to assess a players's true value it's what they do in critical minutes in a finals series = Aker. 08-09 onwards Franklin won multiple games off his own boot and later through Richmond's era as I said Martin is the guy.

There's lots of 2023 examples as well no-one has had more 30+ 2 goal games than Butters, Tract, Bont, Daicos. We need to better support a player like this if you have one, and we do. You don't reduce the workload hoping the minions step up. The minions simply need to step up.

I'm not sure if you're saying Bont don't be good or player 18-22 be better to be honest but my argument is we really need Bont to keep being Bont and our 18-22 to pull their finger out or we turn over the list.

It seems like we're kinda doing this.

Appreciating the dialogue.

[Mofra]

I want Naughton doing some centre bounce work to add some explosive power to our rotations.

It would also get him away from all the scragging he gets forward.

We certainly need to change the mix to be less predictable. We probably don't lose to GWS in Ballarat if we could have thrown Naughton in the middle when Bont was being heavily tagged.
It's actually not as weird a suggestion as it sounds.
Jono Brown was taking the odd centre square rotation in the Lions' glory years

[bornadog]

I seem to recall MJP posting up something about the Bont, Libba, Macrae etc having the ball too much and not allowing the lesser lights to influence the game. I will try and search it, as it was an interesting take. Pretty much similar to what Mofra has said.

[Mofra]

Sure Aker in the early 2000s changed the face of two of Brisbane's flags. Won a Brownlow as well. Had some help sure but if you strip it back and really want to assess a players's true value it's what they do in critical minutes in a finals series = Aker. 08-09 onwards Franklin won multiple games off his own boot and later through Richmond's era as I said Martin is the guy.

There's lots of 2023 examples as well no-one has had more 30+ 2 goal games than Butters, Tract, Bont, Daicos. We need to better support a player like this if you have one, and we do. You don't reduce the workload hoping the minions step up. The minions simply need to step up.

I'm not sure if you're saying Bont don't be good or player 18-22 be better to be honest but my argument is we really need Bont to keep being Bont and our 18-22 to pull their finger out or we turn over the list.

It seems like we're kinda doing this.

Appreciating the dialogue.
We're pretty much arriving in a similar place from different perspectives.
Bont absolutely needs to still be him, but there are times he needs to be him outside of the centre square - even for a couple of minutes - if it gets his teammates into the game a bit more. Weightman taking a CBA or playing higher for a few minutes is a good example. If the game is congested, Caleb gets a few minutes as he can actually kick out of congestion.

It's not about Bont being less good, it's really about finding ways to create a greater and more even contribution from the playing group, as the best teams have a more even contribution and even the 22nd picked bloke will have important moments.

[azabob]

I seem to recall MJP posting up something about the Bont, Libba, Macrae etc having the ball too much and not allowing the lesser lights to influence the game. I will try and search it, as it was an interesting take. Pretty much similar to what Mofra has said.

The philosophy is “Less is More” from our top liners.

[Rocket Science]

This strikes me a development issue as much as a strategic one because my brain struggles to recall a time when we enjoyed legitimate competition for spots rather than the fruitless deckchair shuffling that passes for our last six picked as our fringe types reliably struggle to meet the grade.

We've even had the coach openly lamenting this but if we're keen to take some heat off our prime movers it'd be ace if someone afforded an opportunity actually seized it and graduated to regular duty.

[Go_Dogs]

I think we need more from people not named Marcus Bontempelli.

[Mantis]

We need the same output from Marcus, we need more from the rest.

[Scorlibo]

Interesting discussion. For many years Bevo's mantra of players playing multiple positions frustrated me. Libba playing forward for instance was the epitome of waste. Yet it does seem as though we have a few players in West, Garcia and Smith who show great promise on ball but struggle elsewhere, and it is tempting to move some chess pieces around to see what they can do in the middle.

West has actually done very well forward of the ball during his two stints in the senior side this year and last. He needs to hit the ground running at the start of next year, we can't afford him to have another down patch to start the season. He's a prime candidate for a point of difference at the centre bounce when needed, but otherwise playing the bullocking forward role.

I probably differ to most on the efficacy of Macrae at half forward this year. Sure, he's not hit the scoreboard very regularly but his ability to get up and have an impact as the extra midfielder has been impressive. I think champion data rated him as the second best mid-forward behind Shai Bolton this year.

Bont to a wing is something I'd like to see trialled, enabling a Garcia or Smith to go into the centre bounce.

One thing's clear in my mind - next year we need to see some experimentation. It might cost us a few games but we can't keep going with the same side and strategy whilst expecting different results, and if anything our list is on the decline. Time to see what the kids can do!

[angelopetraglia]

Interesting clip from Josh Bruce.

Hopefully everyone can prepare themselves like Bont https://www.instagram.com/reel/CxaFZHmRLuB/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[jeemak]

Interesting clip from Josh Bruce.

Hopefully everyone can prepare themselves like Bont https://www.instagram.com/reel/CxaFZHmRLuB/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

So is he not one of the guys going out and smashing the party party on the weekends like some have been purported to do?

Shocked!

[Curly5]

As captain, Bont needs to demand that teammates at least try to emulate his commitment to excellence. Think of captains of other clubs that set team standards - Joel Selwood springs to mind.

[anfo27]

Well, we're in a chicken vs egg argument now - players can make more of a contribution when they get more opportunity to make a contribution.

Has there been a successful team since the late 90s that has relied on one player to constantly drag them across the line? I really can't think of one. If you look at our 2016 side, we still have nowhere near a consensus on the Norm Smith. 2nd in our B&F that year was a role player who had 1 brownlow vote for his entire 253 game career.

Gary Ablett junior. They had plenty of stars in that team but even they recognised Gary's greatness & went out of their way to get the ball in his hands. They figured if Gary has the ball more, good things will happen. This is what we should do more often. Instead we have a ruckman running down the ground who thinks he can deliver the ball & make better decisions than Bont. Know your roll English! Let the bakers bake!
Nothing is stopping the other players from contributing more other that themselves. Stop blaming a great of the game for his team mates being lacklustre. Bobby Hill is a bits player but when the ball is in his area he does everything to make it count. Thats all we ask. I don't want them to get 25 possessions & kick 5 goals. Like Luke Dahlhaus when he started. When the ball was in his area he made his presence count.

[Mofra]

Gary Ablett junior. They had plenty of stars in that team but even they recognised Gary's greatness & went out of their way to get the ball in his hands. They figured if Gary has the ball more, good things will happen. This is what we should do more often. Instead we have a ruckman running down the ground who thinks he can deliver the ball & make better decisions than Bont. Know your roll English! Let the bakers bake!
Nothing is stopping the other players from contributing more other that themselves. Stop blaming a great of the game for his team mates being lacklustre. Bobby Hill is a bits player but when the ball is in his area he does everything to make it count. Thats all we ask. I don't want them to get 25 possessions & kick 5 goals. Like Luke Dahlhaus when he started. When the ball was in his area he made his presence count.
The issue with this is... there's only so much ball to go round. There are only so many CBAs to be spread among the midfield group, and this year indicates that our CBAs were not as evenly spread as they were in previous years.

Bont is brilliant, but we're playing under 15s football where the team seem to now be resigned to a few stars doing everything.