Collingwood 2023 Premiership Team - How it was built?

[angelopetraglia]

Always fascinating to look at Premiership Teams and look at how the list was built.

Drafted Six Players

Murphy #39 2017 Draft
Maynard #30 2014 Draft
Sidebottom #11 2008 Draft
Pendlebury #5 2005 Draft
McCreery #44 2020 Draft
De Goey #5 2014 Draft


Father Son / Academy Four Players

Moore #9 2014 Draft
Quaynor #13 2018 Draft
J Daicos #57 2016 Draft
N Daicos #4 2021 Draft


Traded Nine Players

Howe (Traded in complex four team trade)
Frampton (Future third round)
Hill (The Giants trade Hill and its round-three selection (pick No.40) to Collingwood for its round-three selection (43) and its future second-round selection)
Elliott (Traded to Collingwood at the end of 2011 in a deal with Greater Western Sydney (GWS) whereby GWS could pre-list players and on-trade to other clubs)
Mitchell (Collingwood essentially handed over two third-round picks ? No. 41 and 50)
Cameron (Sydney has received pick No.56 in return for trading Cameron and pick No.62 to Collingwood.)
Hoskin-Elliott (Traded to Collingwood for their second round pick of the 2017 AFL draft)
Lipinski (The Bulldogs acquired pick No.43 from the Magpies to get the deal done)
Crisp (traded to Collingwood along with picks 5 and 25 for Dayne Beams prior to the 2014 AFL draft)


Rookie / Signing Four Players

Markov (added in 2023)
Mihocek (2018 Rookie Draft)
Cox (2015 Rookie Draft)
Ginnivan (2021 Rookie Draft

[angelopetraglia]

So let's explore the breakdown a little more.

Drafted They only had six players in their list from a traditional draft. 26%. Three of those were first rounders who were are all prime movers for them. Pendles, De Goey and Sidebottom. All the others you would have to say they nailed those picks.

Father Son / Acadamey Well they have stuck gold here. You would say on 2023 form they are A Graders. They have 18% of their team and three AAs and one in the AA list all coming from the luck of father son and academy. Including three that were nominated in the first round of the draft. Without these four top end players they are not at the pointy end of the competition.

Traded 9 or 39% of the players have come from trades. Most of them super influential players. Cameron allowed them to move on Grundy. Hill basically won the Grand Final for them with a game for the ages. Howe has been incredible since crossing over and taking up that intercepting defender role. Crips has played 200+ consectutvie games.

Rookie 4 rookies or 39% of the team. So rookies were almost important in the make up as drafted players. Mihochek has been a relevation in an undersize foward lne and Cox has performed well in some big games when it matters.

So the list has not been built on any specific method, but each avenue open to any team has played a crucial role. You would have to say that Father Son / Academy has been incredibly important to them. Also, getting the most out of vetran high quality picks like Pendles and Sidebottom has been crucial.

[The bulldog tragician]

I had the strange feeling yesterday that the Pies are both miles ahead of us - it feels like only in 2016 did I see us show the attributes that they display in their desire and competitiveness - but not that far ahead of us in the overall range of talent and abilities.

I thought the areas where they clearly outperform us are:

1. Fitness. They are not just psychologically ready to win close ones, they win all those close games and never show those signs of fatigue that we do. Running out the match yesterday in the heat was another great example. The longevity of Pendlebury and Sidebottom also says they?re great at managing older players.
2. Consistency and concentration. Even when GWS smashed them early, they never got far enough ahead. Yesterday there were a couple of points where it looked like Bris would slice them open, but somehow you look at the scoreboard and they?re within a goal. They don?t concede those red time goals you can bank on happening for us, in fact, the after the siren goals were the difference.
3. Selflessness and camaraderie. That is from the top down, where their assistant coaches have obviously been able to park their own egos, and the senior coach isn?t threatened by the voices around him. You can see the players care for each other. Somehow we?ve lost that. There is also a place for ratbags. de Goey isn?t my cup of tea, but they get the best out of guys like him and even Ginnivan.
4. Leadership. Pendlebury passes the baton to Moore, who looks like he loves every moment, but the former captain is on hand to assist with his leadership, as too Sidebottom. Both were critical yesterday as ?elder statesmen? leading the way. We have Bont? and then? I do wonder who our next captain will be, and I think we?re in danger of wearing down our champ without more on and off field support. Bevo has recently declined in the sort of leadership that he gave us early on and while you can easily say what the Pies stand for I?m less sure with us.

What else can we take and learn from the premiership team?

Ed: just saw Angelo Petraglias post, maybe these should be merged mods?

[FrediKanoute]

We have done well with FS and Academy picks. We have done well with our top end draft picks. What is our problem?

[jeemak]

We have done well with FS and Academy picks. We have done well with our top end draft picks. What is our problem?

I think there's a bit of a gap with who we've brought in, versus who they've brought in from elsewhere.

[DOG GOD]

We have done well with FS and Academy picks. We have done well with our top end draft picks. What is our problem?
They play as a team with everyone knowing their role.
We play selfish

[josie]

Been mentioned by other woofers, we don’t have those tough nuts like the 2016 team (Clay, Picken, Morris). Pies have them (McGreery, Maynard, De Goey, Mihocek, …..). They are also able to hold their heads high (not fold up) and focus on what the game needs even if they make a mistake that leads to an oppo goal. Their ability to slow it down, speed it up, change angles, play keepings off when needed is amazing. I liken them to a really good musical group who enhance each other’s strengths. And low fumble count. Particularly impressed by players like Quaynor who hardly ever makes a mistake and can lay a decent tackle, you always feel confident he and many of their other players will win or at least halve one on ones or even when outnumbered.

[bulldogtragic]

List.

They gave up signing all the big names to huge money, huge year contracts including the AA ruckman. They now spread that salary cap around role players like Bobby Hill, Lippa, Frampton, McStay, WHE etc. - We are going to pour most of our salary cap into a few players like they were doing in the Buckley era.

They also use the rookie list to find young talent and develop them, and not just top up with depth types. Our specialty now.

They also seem to crack the shits at De Goey & Ginnivan over their off field behaviour, but keep them enough on the straight and narrow to harness their talent. We for whatever reason have had to force our guys out of the club for bugger all.

[The bulldog tragician]

List.

They gave up signing all the big names to huge money, huge year contracts including the AA ruckman. They now spread that salary cap around role players like Bobby Hill, Lippa, Frampton, McStay, WHE etc. - We are going to pour most of our salary cap into a few players like they were doing in the Buckley era.

They also use the rookie list to find young talent and develop them, and not just top up with depth types. Our specialty now.

They also seem to crack the shits at De Goey & Ginnivan over their off field behaviour, but keep them enough on the straight and narrow to harness their talent. We for whatever reason have had to force our guys out of the club for bugger all.

This seems to say it’s not the “intangibles” or coaching/buy-in I mentioned but personnel?

[bulldogtragic]

This seems to say it’s not the “intangibles” or coaching/buy-in I mentioned but personnel?

I think our problems are many and varied. We’ve apparently got a ruckman who will only play first ruck, an inaccurate KPF who doesn’t want to play defence again and a young midfield who said hdd ex didn’t like having to play a different role for the team this year. Nearly 1/7 of our best 22 only want to play where they want to like spoilt kids in junior footy. I don’t think anyone in the Collingwood set up would be pulling this anti team first stuff. They seem to be buying what their coach is selling. I don’t get the feeling we were this year.

They also play things like, natural small forwards. They work hard both ways. They seem to have selection integrity and their bottom players are vastly better than McComb, McNeil and VDM. They also moved on club favourites, which is something we won’t do. Even if it means a quick rebuild and sling shot back up the ladder. We will hold our guys until they’re pried from our cold dead hands.

Thinking more about it today, I think our next move is backwards. So I just hope like hell our F1 isn’t for sale but for something spectacular. Even then…

[Bullies]

Excellent points you made. It can turn very quickly though. Collingwood were 17th 2 seasons ago but agree we have work to do. GWS showed this year how quickly it can turn (new personnel does help). We have the talent but we fall away with our bottom 6 each week.Our bottom 6 week as pointed out by many when we won the flag was part of the reason we won the flag.

You need full on buy in by all the players and the Pies have that. Each one knows their role and are happy to sacrifice their own game for the benefit of the team. We seem to have players who sulk when played out of position. They also buy for their needs and target those players. We buy whatever is left.

Will be an interesting next year and with new facilites there is no reason they can't turn it around. Don't under estimate how a good work environment will benefit the team and be good for morale.

[bornadog]

I think there are two main areas that we can learn from both Collingwood and Brisbane.

1. Small forwards that can kick goals - how good were Bailey, Cameron, Bobby, McGrath, Elliot, throughout the season.

2. Belief - Pies are never beaten, and have won many close games including the Prelim 1 point and GF 4 points.

[bulldogtragic]

Excellent points you made. It can turn very quickly though. Collingwood were 17th 2 seasons ago but agree we have work to do. GWS showed this year how quickly it can turn (new personnel does help). We have the talent but we fall away with our bottom 6 each week.Our bottom 6 week as pointed out by many when we won the flag was part of the reason we won the flag.

You need full on buy in by all the players and the Pies have that. Each one knows their role and are happy to sacrifice their own game for the benefit of the team. We seem to have players who sulk when played out of position. They also buy for their needs and target those players. We buy whatever is left.

Will be an interesting next year and with new facilites there is no reason they can't turn it around. Don't under estimate how a good work environment will benefit the team and be good for morale.

What is the common thread with Collingwood and GWS turning at around quickly? It rhymes with sack the coach. Their culture changed, not just the facilities.

[1eyedog]

We have done well with FS and Academy picks. We have done well with our top end draft picks. What is our problem?

Mental toughness

[Bullies]

What is the common thread with Collingwood and GWS turning at around quickly? It rhymes with sack the coach. Their culture changed, not just the facilities. i did say new personnel does help but so does a good work environment.

[bulldogtragic]

i did say new personnel does help but so does a good work environment.

Yeah. But a new coach is the the thing both rejuvenated clubs have in quickly turning things around. Something we won’t do. I remain to be convinced an updated building changes our fortunes around quickly, or at all.

[macca]

Pies have depth :
-replace injured players: McStay , Adams
- cant get a game : Noble, Johnson, Bianco , mcRae
- back their players to fill a hole when likes of Grundy leave.

All the above mentioned. Its their players , fullfilling their roles with agression and not lose a contest . Its the sum of all parts contributing. Any player not team focused gets the chop even Salary cap wise.
They are clean with pickup , fantastic second efforts and just run all day and chase .
Their coaching team and medics can also take alot of credit

[anfo27]

Collingwood play a brave style of footy. Fortune favours the brave they say, so we get no favours. Hoping Bevo decides maybe we should be brave like we were in 2016 & like Collingwood. Take the game on & be brave, the players will come with you.

[Axe Man]

Jack Crisp came from Brisbane as part of the Dayne Beams trade.

[angelopetraglia]

Jack Crisp came from Brisbane as part of the Dayne Beams trade.

Thanks, updated. That is an incredible 39% of their team that was traded in which really does highlight how important trading has become in the modern era.

[Grantysghost]

For me I keep going back to one word.

Belief.

Belief in the leaders.
Belief in the game plan.
Belief in your team mates.

The Pies list is middling. Talent only gets you so far, the rest as 2016 showed us is belief and execution.

My sense with the current Bulldogs side is it feels factional.
Age disparity could be one reason, there's a crop of older guys like Macrae, Treloar, Bont, Crozier, Duryea, Keath who seem like different types to the next biggest cohort of under 23s : Naughton, Marra, Smith, West etc.

Dunkley and Lipinski were probably the bridge/conduit in a way.

If the players no longer believe in the coaches and each other fully then all I can see is more sub par performances.
If we can somehow recapture that lightning with an injection of talent, coaching and playing, a huge pre season, and a great start to 24 on field it may just happen.
At this point I am still a Bevo believer however ask me at round 5 next season.

[Bullies]

Don't forget Bevo like Macrae is now was also the Golden Child of the AFL media after the 2015/2016 seasons.

We had a team that most people enjoyed watching and admired. He turned our team around much like Macrae has done in a short amount of time.

It can quickly change. People will go back to hating the Pies and their arrogance shortly. A few of their players will be older and maybe not have the same hunger. Then the press will come for them. They will be the hunted. In saying that they will probably handle the successs much better than we did.

[angelopetraglia]

Don't forget Bevo like Macrae is now was also the Golden Child of the AFL media after the 2015/2016 seasons.

We had a team that most people enjoyed watching and admired. He turned our team around much like Macrae has done in a short amount of time.

It can quickly change. People will go back to hating the Pies and their arrogance shortly. A few of their players will be older and maybe not have the same hunger. Then the press will come for them. They will be the hunted. In saying that they will probably handle the successs much better than we did.

They have not gone back to back since 1935/36. They probably should have done it in 2011 but Geelong had their measure that year (the only team they lost to incredibly). 1991 They partied that hard after the drought breaker they were zero chance (a bit like us in 2016).

It will be fascinating to see if they can back it up. They have not been a dominant team that they can win games in second gear, they have got absolutely everything out of themselves and won so many close games. They also have five less weeks of preseason than teams like us. Hopefully we can make those five weeks count.

[Danjul]

For me I keep going back to one word.

Belief.

Belief in the leaders.
Belief in the game plan.
Belief in your team mates.

The Pies list is middling. Talent only gets you so far, the rest as 2016 showed us is belief and execution.

My sense with the current Bulldogs side is it feels factional.
Age disparity could be one reason, there's a crop of older guys like Macrae, Treloar, Bont, Crozier, Duryea, Keath who seem like different types to the next biggest cohort of under 23s : Naughton, Marra, Smith, West etc.

Dunkley and Lipinski were probably the bridge/conduit in a way.

If the players no longer believe in the coaches and each other fully then all I can see is more sub par performances.
If we can somehow recapture that lightning with an injection of talent, coaching and playing, a huge pre season, and a great start to 24 on field it may just happen.
At this point I am still a Bevo believer however ask me at round 5 next season.
The consistent theme throughout Collingwoods Finals campaign was how they had a simple game plan and they stuck to it.

No matter who had the ball or where they had it there was a player running to a spot 35 metres ahead at a 20 degree angle.

The distance meant the ball travelled quickly with little error. The small angle denied defending opponents time to get into position to compete. When the teammate received the ball they would pivot and quickly kick to the next. By then the momentum was established.

I would love to see that style of play at the Dogs. It would limit the turnovers and fix the poor linking between our zones.