The pick 4 deal

[GVGjr]

I've mentioned already today that we probably need to wait to see what other deals get done to really get the picture of how this deal might look but on face value do you see this as a positive or a negative outcome for the club?

I'll attach a poll with some options more than the typical yes or no options (this not a referendum :))

[hujsh]

I've mentioned already today that we probably need to wait to see what other deals get done to really get the picture of how this deal might look but on face value do you see this as a positive or a negative outcome for the club?

I'll attach a poll with some options more than the typical yes or no options (this not a referendum :))

So it won't need a majority of the other boards support to pass?

[GVGjr]

So it won't need a majority of the other boards support to pass?

4 states need to pass this and I'd say we need 60% plus

[bulldogsthru&thru]

If in doubt vote no. We don't know what G will do to us if we vote yes. :p

[Axe Man]

This is more like a plebiscite in that what we think has no bearing on the decision.

[hujsh]

I've said we've overpaid but my stance is begining to soften as father son/academy/AFL compensation ****ery gets accounted for. It initially felt like we'd need to finish top 4 to balance out the trade but maybe simply making the 8 evens things out. There's also the ability with all these bids to bundle up some picks and move ahead in the draft so there's a long way to go yet before we really can gauge this whole thing

I'm still in the overpaid camp for now but I'm open to changing my mind by the end of the 24 draft

[Hotdog60]

I went with number two but I sit between 2 and 3 as it's more the compo picks and the sliding of your natural pick that shits me.
Maybe all compo picks should be future picks so it doesn't disrupt the clubs plan in the current year.

[GVGjr]

I went with number two but I sit between 2 and 3 as it's more the compo picks and the sliding of your natural pick that shits me.
Maybe all compo picks should be future picks so it doesn't disrupt the clubs plan in the current year.

I nearly went with multiple choices in the poll but um....stuff it :)

[jazzadogs]

I think we overpaid significantly, but on your question of whether it's positive or negative for the club...that is greyer. We will still get Watson and Croft, so it is a positive outcome.

But we miss out on the future 1st, whoever that might be...it's hard to judge at this stage because it hinges on the 2024 pick location but it does feel weighted against us.

[LostDog]

Hmm Weightman and Watson

That means never seeing Scott or McNeil again is plus
I just don't think these 2 are up to it, good VFL level only

[MrMahatma]

On paper, all things being equal, I think we overpaid. BUT - I also wanted us to bring in a top end talent in a position of need - so I went with #2.

Of course, all things are not equal. There's f/s, academy picks both this year and next, which push everything we've paid back. Plus, there's the depth of both drafts.

[angelopetraglia]

Due to future picks being involved and the unknown nature of the father son nomination, this is incredibly difficult to judge. If we finish top four next year, Croft and the Wizard look like stars we will look like geninuses. If we finish bottom four and our pick #4 doesn't have a great start we could like fools.

Time will tell.

[GVGjr]

I think this sums up Sam Power and Dom Milesi with the thought of getting Nick Watson in

1203

They'll be going rock climbing

[LostDog]

Agreed I hope Watson is not Nathan Hrovat 2.0

[angelopetraglia]

Based on the same finishing ladder positions this year will happen next year.

What we are getting.

Pick 4 2034
Pick 46 331
Pick 56 194
Pick 40 429 (future third)

Total 2988


What we are giving up.

Pick 10 1395
Pick 17 1025
Pick 10 1395 (Future first)

Total 3815

[G-Mo77]

Stop it Angelo, we're already dead.

[angelopetraglia]

Stop it Angelo, we're already dead.

Ha .....

[angelopetraglia]

If we win the Premiership and Gold Coast get the Wooden Spoon

What we are getting.

Pick 4 2034
Pick 46 331
Pick 56 194
Pick 37 483 (future third)

Total 3042


What we are giving up.

Pick 10 1395
Pick 17 1025
Pick 18 985 (Future first)

Total 3405

[Grantysghost]

Based on the same finishing ladder positions this year will happen next year.

What we are getting.

Pick 4 2034
Pick 46 331
Pick 56 194
Pick 40 429 (future third)

Total 2988


What we are giving up.

Pick 10 1395
Pick 17 1025
Pick 10 1395 (Future first)

Total 3815


So 827 points = about Pick 23. That's what we lost.

[MrMahatma]

Based on the same finishing ladder positions this year will happen next year.

What we are getting.

Pick 4 2034
Pick 46 331
Pick 56 194
Pick 40 429 (future third)

Total 2988


What we are giving up.

Pick 10 1395
Pick 17 1025
Pick 10 1395 (Future first)

Total 3815


And in practice pick 4 becomes 6 with bids, and 10 becomes ? 12? 13? 14? 17 becomes 20+? And next year there's also round 1 bids expected, so pick 10 is actually pick 13?

It'll be interesting to see what the ACTUAL deal is, but will need to be post draft night NEXT year before it's done (and then we'll still have to wait a few years to see how the players turn out).

[Rocco Jones]

FYI

- Pick 4 will probably end up being pick 6
- Pick 10 will probably end up being pick 14 (looking likely to be a pick we'd have had to use to match Croft)
- Pick 17 will probably end up being pick 22

[The Bulldogs Bite]

FYI

- Pick 4 will probably end up being pick 6
- Pick 10 will probably end up being pick 14 (looking likely to be a pick we'd have had to use to match Croft)
- Pick 17 will probably end up being pick 22

I think this is the clincher. We likely knew Pick 10/14 was in danger, at which point it changes everything.

I'm of the philosophy that you get in as much high end talent into the club as possible. Realistically these are selections in the top 6 each year.

Sometimes it's not about 'winning' the trade. It's about doing what's best for the list. Perhaps, at least I hope, this is it.

[GVGjr]

This from SEN (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/10/09/the-reason-why-bulldogs-gave-up-three-first-rounders-for-pick-four/)

Gold Coast and the Western Bulldogs have engaged in the second official move of this year’s trade period with a swap of picks.

The Suns sent their coveted pick four to Whitten Oval alongside picks 46, 51 and a future third-round selection, with the Dogs parting with picks 10, 17 and a future first-rounder.

It sees Gold Coast come out well on top in terms of the points value attached to each pick, should the Bulldogs and Suns finish in similar ladder positions next year.

But with the Suns likely to match bids on four academy prospects in the first round and the Bulldogs making moves of their own, a little more clarity arises.

Bulldogs list manager Sam Power explained his side of the deal to AFL Trade Radio.

“A number of reasons. We get (pick) four back, a couple of third-rounders this year and a future third from Gold Coast as well,” Power began.

“It’s really with how highly we rate the top end of the pool this year, the types of players that are there in that group really align to our needs.

“Also taking into consideration academy bids, father/son bids, that’s part of our decision making.”

While on face value it doesn’t look a great deal for the Western Bulldogs, SEN’s Tom Morris moved to explain the decision.

Both clubs are looking to avoid academy and father/son picks swallowing up higher draft picks.

“It’s important to understand that the Gold Coast Suns and the Western Bulldogs have different priorities,” he began.

“While the Western Bulldogs are looking to get father son Jordan Croft in and the Suns are looking to recruit their academy picks, by and large the Dogs want a pick at the top of the draft to get at least one elite talent…

“They hope the Croft bid won’t come in the top four, but the Gold Coast Suns want a suite of picks that equal however many points they think is needed to match the bids that come for the four academy players.

“I think 10 and 17 are so strong that they’ll be able to package them up… you might ask why have the Suns done this deal with the Dogs now when other deals could have come… they have given clubs plenty of notice, so given there was no better deal than 10, 17, a future first and a swap of late picks (it’s a win-win).

“Although Jordan Croft hasn’t yet nominated the Dogs, the Dogs are very confident that he will and if and when he does, they’ll have enough picks to be able to match whatever bid for him, which won’t come in the top four.”

AFL Media’s Cal Twomey rated Croft as the 11th best prospect in his September Phantom draft rankings.

Croft has until the end of October to signal his intentions of joining the Bulldogs, while the Suns hope to match bids on academy prospects Jed Walter, Ethan Read and Jake Rogers, all likely to come in the first round.

[bulldogtragic]

“A number of reasons. We get (pick) four back, a couple of third-rounders this year and a future third from Gold Coast as well,” Power began.

It’s really with how highly we rate the top end of the pool this year, the types of players that are there in that group really align to our needs.

“Also taking into consideration academy bids, father/son bids, that’s part of our decision making.”

Lual sliding passed Pick 40?

[MrMahatma]

“A number of reasons. We get (pick) four back, a couple of third-rounders this year and a future third from Gold Coast as well,” Power began.

It’s really with how highly we rate the top end of the pool this year, the types of players that are there in that group really align to our needs.

“Also taking into consideration academy bids, father/son bids, that’s part of our decision making.”

Lual sliding passed Pick 40?

I heard it more that the picks we gave up are going to be pushed back quite a bit and we don't really rate that part of the draft (and potentially next year same story).

But I kind of hear what I want to so that I can remain positive about everything the dogs hierarchy do :)

[bulldogtragic]

I heard it more that the picks we gave up are going to be pushed back quite a bit and we don't really rate that part of the draft (and potentially next year same story).

But I kind of hear what I want to so that I can remain positive about everything the dogs hierarchy do :)

I was pointing out that Sam Power said he needed to consider academy bids. They can only happen for us from Pick 40.

So I’m wondering if we think we are a good shot at securing Lual if his bid formed part of the thinking on the deal. Maybe it’s a hint there’s a good chance we secure Lual via the NGA too.

[Uninformed]

So, yes, we overpaid. But it was a very strong market we had to beat, so we may not have overpaid by too much.

Getting what we think will be the best outcome for the club by overpaying a little for a trade makes sense to me. All that remains to be seen is whether the recruiting team are astute judges of talent.

[macca]

Interesting Twomey suggest Croft 11 th pick , which makes sense to get pick 4 ( gun midfielder) , which becomes. Pick 6 , mentioned above.
Just hope the 5 picks before us dont nominate Croft, maybe there is a gentlmens agreement on which club picks what.
In Sam we trust.

Lets see how this plays out on draft day

[GVGjr]

Interesting Twomey suggest Croft 11 th pick , which makes sense to get pick 4 ( gun midfielder) , which becomes. Pick 6 , mentioned above.
Just hope the 5 picks before us dont nominate Croft, maybe there is a gentlmens agreement on which club picks what.
In Sam we trust.

Lets see how this plays out on draft day

Exceptionally risky move for any club to put in an early bid on Croft now that we have pick 4. He's going to take a while to develop and that will factor into where clubs rank him.

[DOG GOD]

I voted #1
Giving up 10,17 and F1 (I think we will finish 10-14 next year) for #4 is bad enough, but if we picked Watson with that pick, I will be absolutely livid.

[angelopetraglia]

The father-son giant who convinced the Dogs to sell the farm Marc McGowan October 9, 2023 — 5.53pm

On the surface, the Western Bulldogs paid a whopping price for Gold Coast’s in-demand pick four.

The Dogs handed over three first-round picks on Monday – selections 10 and 17 this year, and their top one next year – while getting numbers 46 and 51 and a future third-rounder to complete their return.

No one else was willing to pay so much, but there was method to the (perceived) madness, and it all centres on a 200-centimetre kid by the name of Jordan Croft, son of 186-game Bulldog Matthew. More on him later.

List boss Sam Power was honest when he said the decision owed, in part, to how highly they, and everyone else, rate the top-end of this year’s draft crop. Recruiters believe there is a gap between the best eight or nine kids and the rest.

It is an eclectic bunch, from power-packed No.1 elect Harley Reid, to key forward Jed Walter, the silky Zane Duursma, Tasmanian midfielders Colby McKercher and Ryley Sanders, tall swingman Daniel Curtin, and gifted small forward Nick Watson.

Rivals believe Watson is firmly on the Bulldogs’ radar, and operated on the assumption for weeks that the Suns would score pick 10, which is already being hunted by the likes of North Melbourne and Melbourne.

Gold Coast plan to match bids on four excellent academy prospects – Walter, unicorn ruckman Ethan Read, midfielder Jake Rogers and speedster Will Graham – so this deal goes a significant way to them doing that. They will keep wheeling and dealing across the next week or so.

Whichever way the Dogs go, they should find a good one, but make no mistake, they did this because they expect Croft to nominate as father-son eligible. He is tipped to attract a first-round bid anywhere from about pick 10 through to the mid-teens

The 18-year-old forward-ruck, who is managed by leading agent Tom Petroro, has until the end of this month to make his call.

Power said they were “really keen” to secure Croft, but the highly touted teenager kept his cards closer to his chest when he spoke to this masthead at the draft combine at Marvel Stadium at the weekend.

“It really depends, to be honest. I’ve still got a little bit of time to decide, and talk to family [about] if I’m going to declare father-son,” Croft said. “I’ve always grown up going for the Bulldogs, so it would be an honour to play for that club, if they were going to take me. I just want to be able to play footy, wherever that is, whether that’s interstate or in Melbourne.”

That last line is the intriguing part.

Croft is the modern key-position archetype, at 200 centimetres and with impressive agility and endurance. He finished fourth in the two-kilometre time trial at the combine, taking barely six minutes to complete it. But he is light and will take time to develop.

The Bulldogs were once bereft of talls on their list, but these days are the envy of the competition, with an extraordinary collection of promising talls, including Aaron Naughton, Tim English, Sam Darcy, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan, James O’Donnell and Jedd Busslinger.

That logjam is something Croft must consider when he makes his decision.

“I definitely need the time to develop. Being a taller player, I’ve definitely got to put on a little bit more weight to take on those bigger bodies at the next level,” he said. “But it’s a luxury for [coach Luke] Beveridge and the coaching staff to have so many talls, and definitely a benefit for the club.”

Croft kicked 23 goals in 11 games for the Calder Cannons this past season in the Coates Talent League and represented Vic Metro at the AFL Under-18 Championships, including a three-goal haul against South Australia.

For the Dogs, their chips are in. Those extra late picks from Gold Coast were also with Croft and matching a bid in mind, with their draft hand, after No.4, set to be wiped out if he does attract a bid in the first round.

But they are also committed to bringing in St Kilda’s Nick Coffield, and have expressed interest in contracted Demon James Harmes.

Link: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/the-father-son-giant-who-convinced-the-dogs-to-sell-the-farm-20231009-p5eavq.html

[angelopetraglia]

"Croft is the modern key-position archetype, at 200 centimetres and with impressive agility and endurance. He finished fourth in the two-kilometre time trial at the combine, taking barely six minutes to complete it. But he is light and will take time to develop."

That is quick for someone over 200cm tall. 3 min/km pace. The boy has some endurance.

[Go_Dogs]

Only just catching up on the news.

I voted for “should’ve kept our hand” but could’ve easily voted for “we’ve overpaid” however it’s early to say that with too much confidence until we see who we land, how all the bids land and the picks move, and then of course the performance of the players we select or otherwise would’ve been able to select if we hadn’t made the trade.

I realise our firsts we are trading are late firsts (and one of them you can call a second most likely) but it feels a lot of move up 6 spots or even 10 spots in the draft. If we land a generational talent, all will be forgotten.

[Twodogs]

The father-son giant who convinced the Dogs to sell the farm Marc McGowan October 9, 2023 — 5.53pm

On the surface, the Western Bulldogs paid a whopping price for Gold Coast’s in-demand pick four.

The Dogs handed over three first-round picks on Monday – selections 10 and 17 this year, and their top one next year – while getting numbers 46 and 51 and a future third-rounder to complete their return.

No one else was willing to pay so much, but there was method to the (perceived) madness, and it all centres on a 200-centimetre kid by the name of Jordan Croft, son of 186-game Bulldog Matthew. More on him later.

List boss Sam Power was honest when he said the decision owed, in part, to how highly they, and everyone else, rate the top-end of this year’s draft crop. Recruiters believe there is a gap between the best eight or nine kids and the rest.

It is an eclectic bunch, from power-packed No.1 elect Harley Reid, to key forward Jed Walter, the silky Zane Duursma, Tasmanian midfielders Colby McKercher and Ryley Sanders, tall swingman Daniel Curtin, and gifted small forward Nick Watson.

Rivals believe Watson is firmly on the Bulldogs’ radar, and operated on the assumption for weeks that the Suns would score pick 10, which is already being hunted by the likes of North Melbourne and Melbourne.

Gold Coast plan to match bids on four excellent academy prospects – Walter, unicorn ruckman Ethan Read, midfielder Jake Rogers and speedster Will Graham – so this deal goes a significant way to them doing that. They will keep wheeling and dealing across the next week or so.

Whichever way the Dogs go, they should find a good one, but make no mistake, they did this because they expect Croft to nominate as father-son eligible. He is tipped to attract a first-round bid anywhere from about pick 10 through to the mid-teens

The 18-year-old forward-ruck, who is managed by leading agent Tom Petroro, has until the end of this month to make his call.

Power said they were “really keen” to secure Croft, but the highly touted teenager kept his cards closer to his chest when he spoke to this masthead at the draft combine at Marvel Stadium at the weekend.

“It really depends, to be honest. I’ve still got a little bit of time to decide, and talk to family [about] if I’m going to declare father-son,” Croft said. “I’ve always grown up going for the Bulldogs, so it would be an honour to play for that club, if they were going to take me. I just want to be able to play footy, wherever that is, whether that’s interstate or in Melbourne.”

That last line is the intriguing part.

Croft is the modern key-position archetype, at 200 centimetres and with impressive agility and endurance. He finished fourth in the two-kilometre time trial at the combine, taking barely six minutes to complete it. But he is light and will take time to develop.

The Bulldogs were once bereft of talls on their list, but these days are the envy of the competition, with an extraordinary collection of promising talls, including Aaron Naughton, Tim English, Sam Darcy, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan, James O’Donnell and Jedd Busslinger.

That logjam is something Croft must consider when he makes his decision.

“I definitely need the time to develop. Being a taller player, I’ve definitely got to put on a little bit more weight to take on those bigger bodies at the next level,” he said. “But it’s a luxury for [coach Luke] Beveridge and the coaching staff to have so many talls, and definitely a benefit for the club.”

Croft kicked 23 goals in 11 games for the Calder Cannons this past season in the Coates Talent League and represented Vic Metro at the AFL Under-18 Championships, including a three-goal haul against South Australia.

For the Dogs, their chips are in. Those extra late picks from Gold Coast were also with Croft and matching a bid in mind, with their draft hand, after No.4, set to be wiped out if he does attract a bid in the first round.

But they are also committed to bringing in St Kilda’s Nick Coffield, and have expressed interest in contracted Demon James Harmes.

Link: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/the-father-son-giant-who-convinced-the-dogs-to-sell-the-farm-20231009-p5eavq.html

What's a unicorn ruck?

[Scraggers]

What's a unicorn ruck?

A ruck with a horn

[angelopetraglia]

What's a unicorn ruck?

A 202cm ruckman who ran the third fastest time at the 2km draft combine 5:56. Only three people went under six minutes.

"And Walter mightn’t be the only Suns academy prospect in the top five, with Ethan Read continuing to surge up draft boards following his phenomenal game against Vic Metro on Sunday. A 200cm ruck, Read blew scouts away with his ability to cover the ground and play essentially as a fourth midfielder on his way to 23 disposals, nine marks (three contested) and 15 hit-outs."

[GVGjr]

How much pressure will the club and Sam Power be under if we perform badly next season like Freo did this year and the future pick ends up being in the top 8?

[bulldogtragic]

How much pressure will the club and Sam Power be under if we perform badly next season like Freo did this year and the future pick ends up being in the top 8?

Heads will roll. Whether Power is one of them will be whether he was directed to execute the trade or pushed it himself.

[azabob]

Heads will roll. Whether Power is one of them will be whether he was directed to execute the trade or pushed it himself.

Footy department heads don’t roll, you know this!

[bulldogtragic]

Footy department heads don’t roll, you know this!

He will do an even more serious review into himself. That’ll teach him!

[Grantysghost]

How much pressure will the club and Sam Power be under if we perform badly next season like Freo did this year and the future pick ends up being in the top 8?

Isn't that more likely than not on recent exposed form?
We did lose to West Coast, Hawthorn and struggled to get passed a Cats VFL side.
I actually have us outside the 8 next year. There are at least 8 sides I think are currently better than us.

We have better players, we don't play better though.

[Rocco Jones]

FWIW, with projections, it's looking like:
- pick 4 becomes 6
- pick 10 becomes 15
- pick 17 becomes 23

[Twodogs]

A 202cm ruckman who ran the third fastest time at the 2km draft combine 5:56. Only three people went under six minutes.

"And Walter mightn’t be the only Suns academy prospect in the top five, with Ethan Read continuing to surge up draft boards following his phenomenal game against Vic Metro on Sunday. A 200cm ruck, Read blew scouts away with his ability to cover the ground and play essentially as a fourth midfielder on his way to 23 disposals, nine marks (three contested) and 15 hit-outs."

Thanks Ang.

[Twodogs]

A ruck with a horn

A ruck who's been to uni to study corn.

[hujsh]

FWIW, with projections, it's looking like:
- pick 4 becomes 6
- pick 10 becomes 15
- pick 17 becomes 23

1751 points (6) vs 1927 (15+23)

Difference is worth pick 58

[bulldogtragic]

1751 points (6) vs 1927 (15+23)

Difference is worth pick 58

Looks good except that pesky F1.

[Grantysghost]

FWIW, with projections, it's looking like:
- pick 4 becomes 6
- pick 10 becomes 15
- pick 17 becomes 23

Might be 7 if Read is bid on early!

[bornadog]

Is the cunning plan to move Naughton back in a couple of years time?

[Grantysghost]

Is the cunning plan to move Naughton back in a couple of years time?

Welcome aboard. Chef, time for a new batch of macaroons mate!

[bulldogtragic]

Is the cunning plan to move Naughton back in a couple of years time?

$1.2M for an unproven KPD? I hope not.

Croft played full back most of his junior’s apparently. Seems a more obvious candidate.

[bornadog]

Welcome aboard. Chef, time for a new batch of macaroons mate!
Only asking if that is the plan.

[Grantysghost]

Only asking if that is the plan.

Hey don't throw shade on my plane pun.

#badsaysnaughtonback

[Rocco Jones]

Might be 7 if Read is bid on early!

Yep, but that part shouldn't matter unless we actually planned to get Read with the pick.

[Grantysghost]

Yep, but that part shouldn't matter unless we actually planned to get Read with the pick.

This is true will shuffle the players we want up.

[Rocco Jones]

At a guess:
1- Harley Reid: Eagles trade the pick to Hawks is my guess
2- Walter: Suns match bid
3/4- Duursma/McKercher to North with McKay compo pick
5- Curtin goes to the Eagles with the pick they get from Hawks
6- We take Nick Watson

[josie]

At a guess:
1- Harley Reid: Eagles trade the pick to Hawks is my guess
2- Walter: Suns match bid
3/4- Duursma/McKercher to North with McKay compo pick
5- Curtin goes to the Eagles with the pick they get from Hawks
6- We take Nick Watson

If McKercher & Watson available at our pick 4 (really 6) who do woofers want us to pick?

[Grantysghost]

If McKercher & Watson available at our pick 4 (really 6) who do woofers want us to pick?

McKercher from what I've seen.

[Scraggers]

McKercher from what I've seen.

I haven’t seen any of the candidates. But I’d prefer a midfielder to a small forward.

[GVGjr]

Isn't that more likely than not on recent exposed form?
We did lose to West Coast, Hawthorn and struggled to get passed a Cats VFL side.
I actually have us outside the 8 next year. There are at least 8 sides I think are currently better than us.

We have better players, we don't play better though.

Well we don't appear to be factoring that scenario in at all. Fremantle got it wrong last season and the Jackson F1 pick really works for the Dees now.

[Scraggers]

This might be a question for BT, but is there anyway we can turn pick 4 into pick one?

[bulldogtragic]

This might be a question for BT, but is there anyway we can turn pick 4 into pick one?

Tim English added.
Or
Smith for Pick 4 & F2. Then picks 4 & 5 for Pick 1.

[josie]

Tim English added.
Or
Smith for Pick 4 & F2. Then picks 4 & 5 for Pick 1.

Yuk.

[Scraggers]

Tim English added.
Or
Smith for Pick 4 & F2. Then picks 4 & 5 for Pick 1.

Tim is pick one on his own.

Is 4&5 worth more points than pick one ??

[hujsh]

Looks good except that pesky F1.

Well that alone would never be enough to warrant giving up pick 4. They need to gain points as they move up the ladder so it's not surprising something else had to go to them, though giving a future first is really more about next year than this year and they threw some future picks back so maybe I've just argued against my initial point.

[Sedat]

Heads will roll. Whether Power is one of them will be whether he was directed to execute the trade or pushed it himself.
If we fail yet again next year, shouldn't heads roll anyway? From the top of the organisation down.

[bulldogtragic]

If we fail yet again next year, shouldn't heads roll anyway? From the top of the organisation down.

When they review themselves again for a third year straight….

[G-Mo77]

When they review themselves again for a third year straight….

Wait? They've already reviewed our 2023 campaign?

[bulldogtragic]

Wait? They've already reviewed our 2023 campaign?

Sounds like it, apparently they started at the bye so we’re well advanced apparently.

[Grantysghost]

Draft watchers if it's not Watson (I think it is) who out of the remaining mids (say McKercher, Duursma, Reid are gone) would be worth getting.

The Larke Medallist, Sanders, seems like he might be a great acquisition? 6 ft 1 consistent midfielder with lovely skills and the ability to hit the score board.

https://youtu.be/pQi9n0CtyX8?si=4NAnj8f4Vffsg98G

[hujsh]

Draft watchers if it's not Watson (I think it is) who out of the remaining mids (say McKercher, Duursma, Reid are gone) would be worth getting.

The Larke Medallist, Sanders, seems like he might be a great acquisition? 6 ft 1 consistent midfielder with lovely skills and the ability to hit the score board.

https://youtu.be/pQi9n0CtyX8?si=4NAnj8f4Vffsg98G

Based on a particular endorsement yesterday I'd not mind at all if we got Caddy.

[GVGjr]

Draft watchers if it's not Watson (I think it is) who out of the remaining mids (say McKercher, Duursma, Reid are gone) would be worth getting.

The Larke Medallist, Sanders, seems like he might be a great acquisition? 6 ft 1 consistent midfielder with lovely skills and the ability to hit the score board.


He'd be a solid selection for us and don't you love that he hitches up the socks. :)

[Grantysghost]

Based on a particular endorsement yesterday I'd not mind at all if we got Caddy.

He's a forward isn't he? We've probably got enough of those, although I value MJP's opinion highly.

[lemmon]

I really like what I've seen of Sanders and think he'll be a 200-gamer. I think his kicking and outside game is pretty underrated and it's a nice package with the work he does on the inside. Also just looks ready for AFL football and should play a decent amount of senior footy next year.

I'd be intrigued to see how he tests at the Combine because he doesn't look 'quick' but he does manage to run the footy through the front of the stoppage more than you'd think. He has pretty strong hips and a good ability to break a tackle - but I'm not sure that translates to the top level if he doesn't have real physical power and acceleration.

[ledge]

A few negative nanny’s in this group from what I am reading .
I will go the positive way and say it’s a great job to move up the order and still get Croft.
The other picks returning are obviously to get Coffield and Harmes if that’s the plan. Coffield obviously to a need in backline and Harmes to replace Hannan ? I believe Harmes is a harder type which is an improvement.
That’s two experienced players and two newbies. If we have any other picks I would back us to take someone from our VFL team as we tend to do.

[Axe Man]

DOGS’ ‘SMART BUSINESS’ TO ATTACK FRONT-LOADED DRAFT
(https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-trade-2023-all-the-news-and-whispers-from-day-2-of-the-trade-period/news-story/204cd63c0abf14f7b6f7f40706d90ad9)
– Sam Landsberger

It was the swap of precious picks that will appear considerably more appealing by the time round one of the national draft is in the books on November 20.

The flinch reaction from some Western Bulldogs supporters when the club’s first trade was lodged on Monday was one of disbelief.

They could not understand why picks 10, 17 and the club’s first-round pick in the 2024 draft were all sold for Gold Coast’s prized No. 4 selection.

Three first-rounders for one? What were they thinking?

But this was smart business by Bulldogs list boss Sam Power. First of all, there are first-rounders and then there are first-rounders — and picks 10 and 17 will look far less attractive come draft night.

By the time compensation selections for free agents Ben McKay and Jade Gresham are fed into the draft order and then bids are matched for Jed Walter, Ethan Read, Jake Rogers (Suns), Jordan Croft (Dogs) and maybe Will McCabe those picks will hold far less currency.

Pick 10 is likely to become No. 13 or 14 while pick 17 could become No. 23 or 24, which is the equivalent of a first-round selection ordered off Wish.

The Dogs’ new No. 4 pick will also be bumped – but probably only by two places to No.6.

That will grant the Dogs access to one of Nick Watson, Zane Duursma, Colby McKercher or Ryley Sanders.

The Dogs rate the pointy end of this year’s draft extremely highly and so they are certain to once again secure a star of the future.

Last year St Kilda bemoaned its lack of access to the country’s top teenagers.

“We‘ve got some emerging guns of the competition … but we need more,“ he said at the start of trade period,” then-list boss James Gallagher said.

“Hence the really strong interest in (Jordan) De Goey. Typically your gun midfielders, your champion and your star midfielders, come in the first four, five, six picks of the draft.”

But the Dogs have drafted Tim English, Aaron Naughton, Bailey Smith, Cody Weightman, Jamarra Ugle-Hagan, Sam Darcy, Jedd Busslinger with their first pick over the past seven drafts and that will become eight from eight when a Watson or Sanders walks into Whitten Oval next month.

That player will be partnered by father-son prospect Croft.

A bid on the athletic swingman could’ve come before pick No. 10 and would’ve come before pick No. 17 — so the Dogs simply had to shift those selections anyway.

Otherwise they were at risk of getting chewed up by matching the bid for Croft.

The Dogs also secured picks 46 and 51 from Gold Coast, which means the Dogs can easily match a bid wherever it lands. They also hold No. 38.

And when faces replace numbers this trade will read one of Watson, McKercher, Sanders or Duursma and Croft for two first-rounders as well as one of the selections received for Josh Dunkley.

By he time the bids are made it could be, say, Watson and Croft for pick 13, 24 and next year’s first-rounder.

That is a shrewd move and it also showed the Bulldogs mean business in 2024.

Entering next season without a first-round pick indicates they expect to bounce back into September after a scratchy season was spoiled by a shock loss to wooden-spooner West Coast this year.

Let’s cut to the chase. Powerbrokers at the Dogs believe they have a top-four list and right now they hold a top-four pick.

It is rare for a club in immediate pursuit of a premiership to hold such a precious pick.

[Grantysghost]

This is what it all comes down to as Sam says :

Let’s cut to the chase. Powerbrokers at the Dogs believe they have a top-four list and right now they hold a top-four pick.

Let's hope they're right.

[Grantysghost]

He'd be a solid selection for us and don't you love that he hitches up the socks. :)

He reminds me of JHF.

Check out the goal at around the 2 minute mark from the clearance.

[hujsh]

He's a forward isn't he? We've probably got enough of those, although I value MJP's opinion highly.

If he ends up a 192cm inside/outside mid I don't mind him starting as a forward

We've also seen with the likes of Dunkey and Bont a mid who can clunk a mark inside 50 can be very handy

[jazzadogs]

This is what it all comes down to as Sam says :

Let’s cut to the chase. Powerbrokers at the Dogs believe they have a top-four list and right now they hold a top-four pick.

Let's hope they're right.

Yep. They've gambled on something that seems unlikely based on recent performances.

I understand the benefits, the impacts of academy/fs bids, the risk of doing nothing - but I'm still just not comfortable with giving up the f1.

[1eyedog]

He reminds me of JHF.

Check out the goal at around the 2 minute mark from the clearance.

Sames. He has great vision and disposal as well.

[jazzadogs]

He reminds me of JHF.

Check out the goal at around the 2 minute mark from the clearance.

It's a very nice highlights package. Would complement our mids nicely.

[GVGjr]

Let?s cut to the chase. Powerbrokers at the Dogs believe they have a top-four list and right now they hold a top-four pick.

It is rare for a club in immediate pursuit of a premiership to hold such a precious pick.

This is the point that gets lost on many of our supporters who continually underrate our playing list especially when we don't quite measure up at the pointy end of the season. The club actually thinks we are right in a window and our recruiting and the way we position ourselves for drafts etc is a strong indication that we think we are close.

[The Underdog]

This feels like the classic move of a regime who will look great if it comes off and we're top 4 next season or won't be around for the consequences if it doesn't. And that's all of Grant, Power and Beveridge.

[hujsh]

This is the point that gets lost on many of our supporters who continually underrate our playing list especially when we don't quite measure up at the pointy end of the season. The club actually thinks we are right in a window and our recruiting and the way we position ourselves for drafts etc is a strong indication that we think we are close.

Regardless of how good the playing list are we've demonstrated we're lucky to be a top 8 team and if anything probably aren't in the best 8 teams.

Unless the off field appointments can change that quickly it's hard to accept making these decisions just because of some names on a piece of paper. Demonstrated performance suggests otherwise

[Scorlibo]

So we're going for a hail mary. I don't agree with it, but I'm also excited by the dare of the play. On the face of it, Nick Watson could contribute next year in a position of need. We've been well served by the top end of the draft in recent times, with barely any 'misses', yet our few later picks haven't come on, so the deal at least aligns with our recruiting strengths and strategy.

Having said that, we have definitely overpaid, and the margin on that overpayment could be large if we miss the eight next year as I expect. Miss the eight and we could be in a world of pain, bereft of our first pick and with English and/or Smith potentially out the door (and out of contract). Plus an aging top end who won't be around for the next tilt because we've delayed the rebuild.

Also - how on earth to the media give us a pat on the back for this trade yet drag us over the coals for Naughton's deal? Upside down land.

[Sedat]

This is the point that gets lost on many of our supporters who continually underrate our playing list especially when we don't quite measure up at the pointy end of the season. The club actually thinks we are right in a window and our recruiting and the way we position ourselves for drafts etc is a strong indication that we think we are close.
Yep, and it's well past time for the entire organisation to pony up and deliver on expectations. Otherwise move on and let others in all areas of leadership at the club do the job.

[SquirrelGrip]

Draft watchers if it's not Watson (I think it is) who out of the remaining mids (say McKercher, Duursma, Reid are gone) would be worth getting.

The Larke Medallist, Sanders, seems like he might be a great acquisition? 6 ft 1 consistent midfielder with lovely skills and the ability to hit the score board.

https://youtu.be/pQi9n0CtyX8?si=4NAnj8f4Vffsg98G

I've seen a bit of Ryley this year and if you were picking a player to play now, I'd have him in the top three. He's a victim of his consistency - and IMO he's been the most consistent of any of the potentials year-long - plus he's a victim of the perception that others have more room for improvement. He's the best with his hands in a contest of this year's crop.

For mine he's a 250+ game player wherever he goes.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Hopefully we were planning for the NM compo and it won’t impact our plans. Surely.

Note: Could we have bargained harder after the compound pick went through?

[SlimPickens]

I really like what I've seen of Sanders and think he'll be a 200-gamer. I think his kicking and outside game is pretty underrated and it's a nice package with the work he does on the inside. Also just looks ready for AFL football and should play a decent amount of senior footy next year.

I'd be intrigued to see how he tests at the Combine because he doesn't look 'quick' but he does manage to run the footy through the front of the stoppage more than you'd think. He has pretty strong hips and a good ability to break a tackle - but I'm not sure that translates to the top level if he doesn't have real physical power and acceleration.

He didnt test due to injury

[soupman]

I've had time now to come to terms with this deal.

I guess we had two options (assuming we get Croft around pick 12 which seems likely),

1. Split pick 10 into a bunch of later picks, use 17 on the Croft points and get say three picks around the 30s mark. Keep our F1.
2. Do what we have done, get pick 4 ahead of Croft, get Croft using the third rounders and pick a couple more at the end of the draft.

Considering we probably have 40ish players on our list to draft, maybe the difference between the picks we would've had in the 30s in the first option and the late picks in option 2 is not significant.

So maybe it really is in practical terms our F1 for pick 4.

[WBFC4FFC]

I've had time now to come to terms with this deal.

I guess we had two options (assuming we get Croft around pick 12 which seems likely),

1. Split pick 10 into a bunch of later picks, use 17 on the Croft points and get say three picks around the 30s mark. Keep our F1.
2. Do what we have done, get pick 4 ahead of Croft, get Croft using the third rounders and pick a couple more at the end of the draft.

Considering we probably have 40ish players on our list to draft, maybe the difference between the picks we would've had in the 30s in the first option and the late picks in option 2 is not significant.

So maybe it really is in practical terms our F1 for pick 4.

What's the draft/pick-swap plan if Croft does not nominate the Bulldogs?

Personally, I can't see why he would not nominate. Bruce and O'Brien are gone and within the next two seasons, so will Keith and then Jones. Potentially Lobb as well. The timing should suit his development of when he should be a regular senior player (if good enough).

[bulldogtragic]

What's the draft/pick-swap plan if Croft does not nominate the Bulldogs?

Personally, I can't see why he would not nominate. Bruce and O'Brien are gone and within the next two seasons, so will Keith and then Jones. Potentially Lobb as well. The timing should suit his development of when he should be a regular senior player (if good enough).

Croft is coming. We just sold the farm for him. To me it sounds like it’s been to our mutual benefit to not rush things. He’s on his way.

[choconmientay]

Croft is coming. We just sold the farm for him. To me it sounds like it’s been to our mutual benefit to not rush things. He’s on his way.

Where is all sudden this positivity now coming from BT? :D

[soupman]

What's the draft/pick-swap plan if Croft does not nominate the Bulldogs?


If we have done all this on the premise that he is coming, and he doesn't, well that's a pretty huge fail on our behalf.

I think we have to assume he is coming.

[bulldogtragic]

Where is all sudden this positivity now coming from BT? :D

It would be crazy to do that deal without knowing for a fact he’s coming. Insane and sackable. So I don’t think that.
We are getting 2-4 kids according to Power. We have 7 draft picks right now. They’re only really good for points if you accept it’s 2-4 kids like Power says.
Plus Croft’s last interview was very good in his rhetoric.

I’ve thought he was coming, but having his manager negotiate a longer rookie contract by holding out a bit.

[Grantysghost]

If we have done all this on the premise that he is coming, and he doesn't, well that's a pretty huge fail on our behalf.

I think we have to assume he is coming.

Well, I guess we have to plan on the assumption he is coming, as you'd look a lot worse if you didn't have the picks to match.
I'm not sure why he hasn't nominated yet though. It seems to be a trend of late.

Davey twins didn't nominate for Essendon until the 30th last season.

[FrediKanoute]

What's the draft/pick-swap plan if Croft does not nominate the Bulldogs?

Personally, I can't see why he would not nominate. Bruce and O'Brien are gone and within the next two seasons, so will Keith and then Jones. Potentially Lobb as well. The timing should suit his development of when he should be a regular senior player (if good enough).

But, on the off chance that Croft says no thanks, then I would suggest we split pick if possible, maybe trading back into this years draft and next years. Suffice to say though no one will give us back what we paid.

[bulldogtragic]

But, on the off chance that Croft says no thanks, then I would suggest we split pick if possible, maybe trading back into this years draft and next years. Suffice to say though no one will give us back what we paid.

If Croft hasn’t committed, Grant & Power need to be summarily dismissed. We have one pick in the top 39 picks. 6 later picks. No F1. It would be devastating.

He’s coming.

[choconmientay]

It would be crazy to do that deal without knowing for a fact he?s coming. Insane and sackable. So I don?t think that.
We are getting 2-4 kids according to Power. We have 7 draft picks right now. They?re only really good for points if you accept it?s 2-4 kids like Power says.
Plus Croft?s last interview was very good in his rhetoric.

I?ve thought he was coming, but having his manager negotiate a longer rookie contract by holding out a bit.

You must be referring to the article on Foxfooty?! That was last Friday before the trade period so probably the condition for the nomination is for us to have wiggle room to match any bids.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2023-draft-predicted-picks-jordan-croft-father-son-pick-western-bulldogs-son-of-matthew-bidding-system-points/news-story/9cded51f402d39d2a98cba138999e199

"In order for the Dogs to have the right to Croft and match any rival club bid on him at the draft, he must first nominate the club under the father-son rule.

Speaking to foxfooty.com.au at the national draft combine, Croft said he had always been ?a mad Doggies supporter? growing up, but indicated he was yet to make an official call.

?You definitely have to nominate as father-son, but I?ve still got a bit of time to make that decision and talk with family and my manager,? Croft told foxfooty.com.au on Friday.

?I think it?d be a really great honour to be able to play for the club that you?ve grown up supporting and loved for so long. To be able to give your all to the club, if I get the opportunity, I definitely will be able to. I think that?s what I?ll be looking forward to if I was lucky enough to get drafted to the Bulldogs.?

[The Adelaide Connection]

I am finding peace with the deal, ultimately we need points for Croft etc.

But, I wonder if we were a destination club aka Collingwood if we would be bolder.

Take Bulldogs supporting Butters. He has two years left, but given the same circumstances in 12 months time would Port consider 10, 17 and F1? Would 10 & 17 ultimately be enough?

Theoretically we could then take the #3 deal for Smith and still land our man in the draft.

Lot of pipe dream stuff here. But I think we should chase Butters hard next year. The attraction of home, playing for the WB, and specifically playing with his idol Bont could put us ahead and if we were to lose Smith. This would feel like an upgrade and certainly take the sting out of it.

[bornadog]

The Positive view

Pick 4 (5), is the lowest pick we have had since The Bont. Forget the Academy and FS stuff, not since Bont have we had this opportunity.

[Grantysghost]

The Positive view

Pick 4 (5), is the lowest pick we have had since The Bont. Forget the Academy and FS stuff, not since Bont have we had this opportunity.

Technically we've had pick 1 and 2.

[GVGjr]

Technically we've had pick 1 and 2.

With two picks to come this year and assuming we land Coffield we've got a lot of high end picks on the list

#1 - Ugle-Hagan
#2 - Darcy
#4 - Bontempelli
#6 - Macrae
#7 - Smith
#8 - Coffield*
#9 - Naughton
#13 - Busslinger
#15 - Weightman
#16 - Richards
#19 - English
#20 - Crozier

[bulldogtragic]

With two picks to come this year and assuming we land Coffield we've got a lot of high end picks on the list

#1 - Ugle-Hagan
#2 - Darcy
#4 - Bontempelli
#6 - Macrae
#7 - Smith
#8 - Coffield*
#9 - Naughton
#13 - Busslinger
#15 - Weightman
#16 - Richards
#19 - English
#20 - Crozier

Yet they can’t beat WCE on their home deck to play in finals.

[GVGjr]

Yet they can’t beat WCE on their home deck to play in finals.

If you keep topping up on talent, trading for experienced players and then not delivering when it counts it's not a good mix and it's why there are mixed feelings in the supporter base.

[bulldogtragic]

If you keep topping up on talent, trading for experienced players and then not delivering when it counts it's not a good mix and it's why there are mixed feelings in the supporter base.

Yep. Our top end talent has been excellent. But they’re not winning when they should. Will Watson & Darcy change that any time soon? Probably not. Harmes & Coffield probably not.

I think the club needs to read the room a little better and start to have some genuine dialogue with members and supporters. Some clear and honest communication would be welcome and calm the locals.

[Grantysghost]

If we believe we have a top 4 list, having never reached that under Bevo doesn't exactly show a massive vote of confidence in our ability to extract performance commensurate with our self appraisal.

I'd be failing my annual performance review at work.

How are they making this rating?

Guessing? What are the metrics....?

Then we base our plans off the guess work. It's really concerning.

[Rocco Jones]

If we believe we have a top 4 list, having never reached that under Bevo doesn't exactly show a massive vote of confidence in our ability to extract performance commensurate with our self appraisal.


If we win the flag next year after finishing outside the top 4 again, I'd be happy to give Bevo and co. a pass mark on a technicality.

[1eyedog]

If we win the flag next year after finishing outside the top 4 again, I'd be happy to give Bevo and co. a pass mark on a technicality.

Pass mark and a statue.

[Grantysghost]

If we win the flag next year after finishing outside the top 4 again, I'd be happy to give Bevo and co. a pass mark on a technicality.

Many teams have tried ! Only one has done it. Well the Crows in 98 but that was a very different system. They actually lost their first final and stayed in.
So it's definitely not playing the percentages :)

[Rocco Jones]

Bevo winning us another flag would be lolz. A lot of joy, but also just lolz. Like the ultimate troll job.

[Rocket Science]

It feels the internal philosophy is as long as you've got Marcus Bontempelli playing good football you're functionally in 'the window' no matter the logic and for a pile of reasons simply obligated to play it that way whether the reality agrees or otherwise, and for a much of our post-flag era, of course it hasn't.

Having coaches and administrators who are increasingly anxious to atone, and let's face it stay employed, only reinforces that imperative and probably why as long as we have #4 running around there'll be no true bravery with the list and we sure as hell ain't blowing anything up no matter how restless the proletariat grows.

The most dramatic changes to the list since 2016 have been foisted on us, not by design. So it's otherwise talk of top-four, a little draft largesse, and topping up, and up, and up ...

We can see the cliff coming but we're stuck on these tracks, lest Bevo and Turtle get elbowed out the door.

[bulldogtragic]

It feels the internal philosophy is as long as you've got Marcus Bontempelli playing good football you're functionally in 'the window' no matter the logic and for a pile of reasons simply obligated to play it that way whether the reality agrees or otherwise, and for a much of our post-flag era, of course it hasn't.

Having coaches and administrators who are increasingly anxious to atone, and let's face it stay employed, only reinforces that imperative and probably why as long as we have #4 running around there'll be no true bravery with the list and we sure as hell ain't blowing anything up no matter how restless the proletariat grows.

The most dramatic changes to the list since 2016 have been foisted on us, not by design. So it's otherwise talk of top-four, a little draft largesse, and topping up, and up, and up ...

We can see the cliff coming but we're stuck on these tracks, lest Bevo and Turtle get elbowed out the door.

We haven’t been top 4 for something like 13 years, but pick 5, a project KPP, Harmes & Coffield is taking up there with a rocket?

Kind of hard to take seriously, from a 2023 that started with throwing the game plan out and then choking to the worst team since Fitzroy.

[Topdog]

We haven’t been top 4 for something like 13 years, but pick 5, a project KPP, Harmes & Coffield is taking up there with a rocket?

Kind of hard to take seriously, from a 2023 that started with throwing the game plan out and then choking to the worst team since Fitzroy.

Why not? There is a team coming from outside the top 8 into the top 4 nearly every season. Why not us?

[MrMahatma]

We haven’t been top 4 for something like 13 years, but pick 5, a project KPP, Harmes & Coffield is taking up there with a rocket?

Kind of hard to take seriously, from a 2023 that started with throwing the game plan out and then choking to the worst team since Fitzroy.

With this additions, we’d smoke Collingwood.

[SonofScray]

[QUOTE=Rocco Jones;872031]Bevo winning us another flag would be lolz. A lot of joy, but also just lolz. Like the ultimate troll job.[/l]
Sometimes I wonder if I’d even enjoy it. Then I remember I don’t have to worry. Then I get angry and wonder what it’ll take to actually move him on. Surely when 2024 goes down the drain by quarter time R2 we’ll be relieved of things.

[Topdog]

Is pick 22-24 really a "1st round pick"?
I keep saying we didn't get a 1st round pick for Dunkley so I'm not going to say we gave up 3 1st rounders here.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

[QUOTE=Rocco Jones;872031]Bevo winning us another flag would be lolz. A lot of joy, but also just lolz. Like the ultimate troll job.[/l]
Sometimes I wonder if I?d even enjoy it. Then I remember I don?t have to worry. Then I get angry and wonder what it?ll take to actually move him on. Surely when 2024 goes down the drain by quarter time R2 we?ll be relieved of things.

You wouldn't enjoy us winning a flag? I'm not exactly pro Bevo but if he gets us another flag I'll shut up for another 3 years!

[Rocket Science]

We haven?t been top 4 for something like 13 years, but pick 5, a project KPP, Harmes & Coffield is taking up there with a rocket?

Kind of hard to take seriously, from a 2023 that started with throwing the game plan out and then choking to the worst team since Fitzroy.

Pretty much.

We're also further handcuffed because of our dogged inability to poach difference makers from other clubs.

So okay, fine, we own that and then pivot to maximising the personnel we have by fortifying our coaching ranks with a big off-field fish and uhhh ... errr ... Hmmm, let's just cue the theme to Curb Your Enthusiasm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag1o3koTLWM&ab_channel=ThemeGuy).

[1eyedog]

You wouldn't enjoy us winning a flag? I'm not exactly pro Bevo but if he gets us another flag I'll shut up for another 3 years!

If Bevo gets another flag he can do a full Kevin Sheedy as far as I'm concerned.

[bornadog]

Technically we've had pick 1 and 2.
You didn?t read my post.

[josie]

Pretty much.

We're also further handcuffed because of our dogged inability to poach difference makers from other clubs.

So okay, fine, we own that and then pivot to maximising the personnel we have by fortifying our coaching ranks with a big off-field fish and uhhh ... errr ... Hmmm, let's just cue the theme to Curb Your Enthusiasm (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag1o3koTLWM&ab_channel=ThemeGuy).

And make a shit bow whilst we?re at it.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Does the fact we've traded up to pick 4 mean clubs are less likely to make an early bid for Croft?

If a bid now comes at say 20, it might not mean that's where a bid would have come if we had held onto pick 10/17.

[bulldogtragic]

Does the fact we've traded up to pick 4 mean clubs are less likely to make an early bid for Croft?

If a bid now comes at say 20, it might not mean that's where a bid would have come if we had held onto pick 10/17.

I doubt it. It’ll come when it comes.

[choconmientay]

Damien B (Going to wash my hands and keyboard now) on Trade Radio just told that J Croft has nominated us.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1051912/western-bulldogs-father-son-prospect-jordan-croft-makes-call-on-future

[KT31]

Message from the club to confirm, great news.
Welcome to the club Son of Crofty.

[ReLoad]

Given the haggling to get into the top 6 draft picks by a lot of different clubs, this deal looks better and better by the day.

[bulldogtragic]

Given the haggling to get into the top 6 draft picks by a lot of different clubs, this deal looks better and better by the day.

I honestly think it’s going to be a ‘the end justifies the means’ situation.

If we get a gun, but, give up to much with a shit 2024 there’s grumbling
If we get a gun, and go top 4, I and others eat humble pie, as much as we can eat
If we get a kid who clearly ain’t gonna make it, then it’s horrible.

We just gotta nail the pick and have a good season.

[GVGjr]

Given the haggling to get into the top 6 draft picks by a lot of different clubs, this deal looks better and better by the day.

I think so, it does seem that all of a sudden clubs are trying to push up the order. I'm sure if happens a lot and I seem to recall clubs were trying to get a hold of early picks last year but there appears to be a bit of work and positioning done to get up the order now.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I think I read somewhere yesterday clubs might think next year's draft isn't great or is very even.

[choconmientay]

Given the haggling to get into the top 6 draft picks by a lot of different clubs, this deal looks better and better by the day.

The media started to warming to our decision as well.

FOX:

It?s a significant price to pay, but one the Dogs have been prepared to make for weeks.

?We?ve maintained a desire to move up the draft board in 2023 due to the high-level talent available at the top end of the first round,? Dogs list boss Sam Power said.

?Given the uncertainty of academy selections and father-son bids, it was also imperative for the club to explore getting as high as possible and securing Gold Coast?s pick was a priority.?

The Bulldogs? bold determination to move up the draft order has been driven by a desire to acquire either a star midfielder or hybrid forward at the top of this year?s Under 18 class, according to sources spoken to by foxfooty.com.au.


Several rival club recruiters believe the Bulldogs are keen on star Eastern Ranges small forward Nick Watson to partner Cody Weightman and balance the key-position heavy forward line.

A genuine goalsneak, Watson finished as the leading goalkicker of the Under 18 national carnival, booting 14.6 for Vic Metro as he showed off his unbelievable goal sense, speed, finishing ability and cleanliness at ground level. He?s as fun and dynamic a prospect as we?ve seen for a while ? and a player who?ll draw AFL fans through the turnstiles.


There?s also a view the Dogs need elite midfield talent, hence they?ve been linked to two Tasmanian on-ballers at Pick 4: Colby McKercher and Ryley Sanders.

While Sanders ? who?s now tied to North Melbourne?s Next Generation Academy, but the Roos don?t have priority access to him inside the top 40 picks ? won this year?s Larke Medal, rival clubs believe McKercher would make more sense for the Dogs.

A ball magnet with an excellent left-foot kick, great inside-outside balance, workrate, agility, composure and burst from stoppage, McKercher has been likened to Essendon captain Zach Merrett. He finished second in the Larke Medal voting after averaging 33 disposals, six marks, six clearances and five inside 50s across four national championships games.

Link (https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/draft/afl-trade-news-rumours-whispers-2023-western-bulldogs-pick-swap-with-gold-coast-suns-nick-watson-height-stats-colby-mckercher/news-story/ac20e1972e943998b35e63d3860286b6)

[jazzadogs]

I honestly think it’s going to be a ‘the end justifies the means’ situation.

If we get a gun, but, give up to much with a shit 2024 there’s grumbling
If we get a gun, and go top 4, I and others eat humble pie, as much as we can eat
If we get a kid who clearly ain’t gonna make it, then it’s horrible.

We just gotta nail the pick and have a good season.

If the gamble pays off, I'll eat my pie too. But it does feel like a big gamble.

[Grantysghost]

If the gamble pays off, I'll eat my pie too. But it does feel like a big gamble.

Agree. Maybe I'm too conservative but I'd rather we have systems in place that mean we don't have to gamble.

You clearly need some luck, however that should be cream and the cake is solid and process driven.

[Axe Man]

If the gamble pays off, I'll eat my pie too. But it does feel like a big gamble.


Agree. Maybe I'm too conservative but I'd rather we have systems in place that mean we don't have to gamble.

You clearly need some luck, however that should be cream and the cake is solid and process driven.

Pie, cream, cake ..... macaroons?

[jazzadogs]

Pie, cream, cake ..... macaroons?

I'll only eat macaroons if they're served to me in the NETS

[mjp]

Given the haggling to get into the top 6 draft picks by a lot of different clubs, this deal looks better and better by the day.

Right until North nominate Croft with pick two.

[Axe Man]

I'll only eat macaroons if they're served to me in the NETS

I reckon an overcooked macaroon could do some damage in the nets, I would prefer some nice pies.

[ReLoad]

Right until North nominate Croft with pick two.

Thats actually an ok result for us, we would pass and pick one of the better mids instead of Watson.

plus we have way too many tall forwards.

[bornadog]

Right until North nominate Croft with pick two.

is that a chance

[bornadog]

I think I read somewhere yesterday clubs might think next year's draft isn't great or is very even.
A few weeks ago I thought you said next year?s draft was better.

I honestly don?t trust the so called experts

[bulldogsthru&thru]

A few weeks ago I thought you said next year?s draft was better.

I honestly don?t trust the so called experts

Better for mids.....apparently.

[Grantysghost]

Right until North nominate Croft with pick two.

Oh don't.

[Grantysghost]

Pie, cream, cake ..... macaroons?

God I love macaroons. If only there was some way to access them on woof.

[Axe Man]

is that a chance

About 0.01% chance I would say. I don't think any team has ever nominated a player that far ahead of their generally expected draft range.

[bornadog]

About 0.01% chance I would say. I don't think any team has ever nominated a player that far ahead of their generally expected draft range.
Unless they want to be real pricks

[Axe Man]

Unless they want to be real pricks

And cost themselves the player they actually want when we don't match? No team is going to risk that unless they are happy to take the player at that pick. Nobody is rating Croft inside the top 10.

[chef]

God I love macaroons. If only there was some way to access them on woof.

Oh but there is, just place your order and I'll have them ready for pick up.

[GVGjr]

Right until North nominate Croft with pick two.

Anything is possible but I'd say that is a very unlikely scenario. North shouldn't rate him that highly and why would they want to miss out on one of Duursma, McKercher, Reid or Curtin if their bluff was called?
They also don't have an axe to grind with us.

[Grantysghost]

Oh but there is, just place your order and I'll have them ready for pick up.

I think "Send" is the part missing from that post!

[Bulldog Revolution]

I really liked the look of McKercher - but he reminded me of Dylan Stephens in his draft year who I also liked the look of and whose just been traded to North.

Is there a danger McKercher is a dominant outside junior mid who doesn't translate?

[Mofra]

Right until North nominate Croft with pick two.
Good. Welcome to Arden St Jordan, we'll take a top 5 slider thanks

[Stevo]

Good. Welcome to Arden St Jordan, we'll take a top 5 slider thanks

Agree 100%. I would give us an extra player out of the big 5 to consider and we could be able to match any late bid for Lual.

[GVGjr]

I really liked the look of McKercher - but he reminded me of Dylan Stephens in his draft year who I also liked the look of and whose just been traded to North.

Is there a danger McKercher is a dominant outside junior mid who doesn't translate?

He's got a bit more 'inside' type skills than Stephens and he would be a great pick-up for us.