Midfield Depth

[jazzadogs]

I feel like our forward planning for the decline of our midfield has been really poor. We have overloaded our list with flankers and utilities, relying more heavily than any other team on our 'core' group of mids.

Current list of centre bounce mids:
Treloar, Bont, Smith, Macrae, Mclean, Libba, Scott, Daniel
Baker (wing), Poulter (wing), Bedendo (wing), Williams (wing), Roarke (wing)

So how have we got in this situation? Here's our midfield ins for the past four off seasons.

2019
In: 1 ?mid (Garcia), 1 wing (Butler)

2020
In: 1 mid (Treloar), 3 ?mids (Scott, Mcneill, Bedendo)
Out: Porter

2021
In: 2 rookie mids (McComb, Parker)
Out: Lipinski, Jong

2022
In: 2 wings (Baker, Poulter)
Out: Dunkley, Hunter, Parker

2023:
In:
Out: Mccomb,

Even going back to 2016 (so since winning the flag), I would say that we have brought in only 7 'genuine' mids and only 4 are left - that doesn't feel like enough to me.

Lipinski, Porter, B Smith, West, Garcia, Treloar, Mccomb

So are we any chance of bringing in a genuine mid any time soon?

[bulldogtragic]

I feel like our forward planning for the decline of our midfield has been really poor. We have overloaded our list with flankers and utilities, relying more heavily than any other team on our 'core' group of mids.

Current list of centre bounce mids:
Treloar, Bont, Smith, Macrae, Mclean, Libba, Scott, Daniel
Baker (wing), Poulter (wing), Bedendo (wing), Williams (wing), Roarke (wing)

So how have we got in this situation? Here's our midfield ins for the past four off seasons.

2019
In: 1 ?mid (Garcia), 1 wing (Butler)

2020
In: 1 mid (Treloar), 3 ?mids (Scott, Mcneill, Bedendo)
Out: Porter

2021
In: 2 rookie mids (McComb, Parker)
Out: Lipinski, Jong

2022
In: 2 wings (Baker, Poulter)
Out: Dunkley, Hunter, Parker

2023:
In:
Out: Mccomb,

Even going back to 2016 (so since winning the flag), I would say that we have brought in only 7 'genuine' mids and only 4 are left - that doesn't feel like enough to me.

Lipinski, Porter, B Smith, West, Garcia, Treloar, Mccomb

So are we any chance of bringing in a genuine mid any time soon?

Rhylee West in three years.

[jeemak]

I'm on record about fifteen times tonight saying I think Cody will go into the midfield over the next two years. He'll be prioritised over West and Garcia which will burn a lot of folks.

To me he can be like a Wingard when he made the change. Good enough in the air, great in traffic, and smart with hand/ foot.

So that's one additional player to your list.

[jazzadogs]

I like the thought of Cody in the midfield, and he did have a few moments this year where he showed the poise in traffic required.

Do our current recruiting team not value mids? Is it just because of JUH/Darcy?

[GVGjr]

I like the thought of Cody in the midfield, and he did have a few moments this year where he showed the poise in traffic required.

Do our current recruiting team not value mids? Is it just because of JUH/Darcy?
It's hard to understand why we have been so reluctant to bring in some midfielders later in the draft and why we've more than happy to bring in slightly more mature players from Footscray or state leagues than through the talent leagues. It's the way that we've rated our list and that we think we are right in the premiership window.

Sure, father son and academy picks have all been key positions players and that's impacted our early trade currency but it's like we only rate midfielders if we can get them early in the draft.

[Bullies]

It's hard to understand why we have been so reluctant to bring in some midfielders later in the draft and why we've more than happy to bring in slightly more mature players from Footscray or state leagues than through the talent leagues. It's the way that we've rated our list and that we think we are right in the premiership window.

Sure, father son and academy picks have all been key positions players and that's impacted our early trade currency but it's like we only rate midfielders if we can get them early in the draft. Very few of the elite mid fielders you see today don't come from the Top 10. We will be paying a high price for small forward Watson but he is considered elite. It also suit our needs as small forwards have become one of the most important roles in the game. Collingwoood going for Schultz to go with Hill and Ginnivan shows just how important they consider the small forward role. It will give us Weightman, Clarke, Jones and Watson. Can see Weightman doing a lot of pinch hitting in the middle and once Jones develops his tank he will push further up the ground. Clarke will be an interesting one next year. He is the type who will play better at the higher level and a very smart footballer.

[GVGjr]

Very few of the elite mid fielders you see today don't come from the Top 10. We will be paying a high price for small forward Watson but he is considered elite. It also suit our needs as small forwards have become one of the most important roles in the game. Collingwoood going for Schultz to go with Hill and Ginnivan shows just how important they consider the small forward role. It will give us Weightman, Clarke, Jones and Watson. Can see Weightman doing a lot of pinch hitting in the middle and once Jones develops his tank he will push further up the ground. Clarke will be an interesting one next year. He is the type who will play better at the higher level and a very smart footballer.

Have a look at the Swans who have drafted the likes of Gulden, Warner, Rowbottom and McInerney outside of the 1st round let alone the top 10. They also drafted Jordon Dawson with a pick in the 50's.

Perhaps it's our player development but we've focused more on bringing in slightly more mature players from the state leagues than drafting and developing some midfield depth from the talent leagues.

[Mantis]

What’s the point of drafting midfielders if we turn them into flankers?

Our midfield group for the last 3 seasons has been Bont, Libba, Macrae, Treloar with Dunkley & Baz as the add-ins.

That’s it.

[GVGjr]

What’s the point of drafting midfielders if we turn them into flankers?

Our midfield group for the last 3 seasons has been Bont, Libba, Macrae, Treloar with Dunkley & Baz as the add-ins.

That’s it.

We had to throw Daniel into the midfield to replace Macrae this year as well.

[bornadog]

I feel like our forward planning for the decline of our midfield has been really poor. We have overloaded our list with flankers and utilities, relying more heavily than any other team on our 'core' group of mids.

Current list of centre bounce mids:
Treloar, Bont, Smith, Macrae, Mclean, Libba, Scott, Daniel
Baker (wing), Poulter (wing), Bedendo (wing), Williams (wing), Roarke (wing)

So how have we got in this situation? Here's our midfield ins for the past four off seasons.

2019
In: 1 ?mid (Garcia), 1 wing (Butler)

2020
In: 1 mid (Treloar), 3 ?mids (Scott, Mcneill, Bedendo)
Out: Porter

2021
In: 2 rookie mids (McComb, Parker)
Out: Lipinski, Jong

2022
In: 2 wings (Baker, Poulter)
Out: Dunkley, Hunter, Parker

2023:
In:
Out: Mccomb,

Even going back to 2016 (so since winning the flag), I would say that we have brought in only 7 'genuine' mids and only 4 are left - that doesn't feel like enough to me.

Lipinski, Porter, B Smith, West, Garcia, Treloar, Mccomb

So are we any chance of bringing in a genuine mid any time soon?

One year on and we are worse off. Sanders was drafted but now losing a few players.

As Jeemak mentioned in post #3, should Cody be now training as a mid instead of p[laying the small forward role?

[GVGjr]

One year on and we are worse off. Sanders was drafted but now losing a few players.

As Jeemak mentioned in post #3, should Cody be now training as a mid instead of p[laying the small forward role?

I'm not against moving Weightman to the midfield or even the back line because he's not playing the role of a smaller forward.
Love his enthusiasm but if we could find a couple of players better suited to a small forwards role it could be worth considering.

[bornadog]

I'm not against moving Weightman to the midfield or even the back line because he's not playing the role of a smaller forward.
Love his enthusiasm but if we could find a couple of players better suited to a small forwards role it could be worth considering.

Agree he doesn't really play the small forward role, he wants to leap at everything but he is a great set shot (except last few weeks). If we can get a really good small forward who can replace his goals and even kick more, he should be trialled as a mid, or even HBF.

[Bullies]

Agree he doesn't really play the small forward role, he wants to leap at everything but he is a great set shot (except last few weeks). If we can get a really good small forward who can replace his goals and even kick more, he should be trialled as a mid, or even HBF. I would like to see Caleb as our small foward. Reads the ball well and is very smart around goals and is in and under. Let him reinvent himself.

[bornadog]

I would like to see Caleb as our small foward. Reads the ball well and is very smart around goals and is in and under. Let him reinvent himself.

Great suggestion

[Axe Man]

I would like to see Caleb as our small foward. Reads the ball well and is very smart around goals and is in and under. Let him reinvent himself.

How many good small forwards are slow? I don't see it. What they do in defence is as important as what they do in attack and both require some pace.

[azabob]

Beveridge has indicated that "utilities" are our priority for list management gaps.

I wonder if this will progress Freijah into the midfield group this preseason or he will continue to train with the defenders.

We are desperate for the Sanders pick to pay off.

[Grantysghost]

I would like to see Caleb as our small foward. Reads the ball well and is very smart around goals and is in and under. Let him reinvent himself.

Too slow I think. He can't do the chase down harassing stuff say a Pickett does.

[JanLorMill]

Too slow I think. He can't do the chase down harassing stuff say a Pickett does.
No slower than West.

[mighty_west]

I'm not against moving Weightman to the midfield or even the back line because he's not playing the role of a smaller forward.
Love his enthusiasm but if we could find a couple of players better suited to a small forwards role it could be worth considering.

All fair but he's also our best set shot for goal, i'd like to see him do a pre season with the midfield group ditto with West, they can both give us a spark in the midfield.

[mighty_west]

How many good small forwards are slow? I don't see it. What they do in defence is as important as what they do in attack and both require some pace.

If they're smart enough they don't need to be super quick imo, just crafty and Caleb can get under packs, has that ability to scoop the ball up cleanly and make a play, that could be dangerous in amongst the tall forwards.

[mjp]

If they're smart enough they don't need to be super quick imo, just crafty and Caleb can get under packs, has that ability to scoop the ball up cleanly and make a play, that could be dangerous in amongst the tall forwards.

Small forwards are born, not made.

[Stevo]

Beveridge has indicated that "utilities" are our priority for list management gaps.

I wonder if this will progress Freijah into the midfield group this preseason or he will continue to train with the defenders.

We are desperate for the Sanders pick to pay off.

I might have missed that AB, where did you see that?

[GVGjr]

All fair but he's also our best set shot for goal, i'd like to see him do a pre season with the midfield group ditto with West, they can both give us a spark in the midfield.

If we were playing 2 tall forwards rather than 3 I think we keep Cody forward as much as we can but if we assume we need 3 smaller forwards on the ground at all times well that's not really his strength. He flies for a lot of marks leaving us with minimal smaller forwards when we don't mark it which isn't ideal
Your point is well made but I'd consider other roles for Cody.

[angelopetraglia]

I might have missed that AB, where did you see that?

I believe he has mentioned it a few times. The context is that we had multiple dratfs where wer priortised talls due to the opportunties i.e. Darcy, Marra, Buss and Croft and we have not taken enough high end mids and utlities (obviously tried to rectify that last year with Sanders).

[jDogs]

Can anyone else see Williams training as mid this preseason? I have a feeling this could happen if we pick up an O'Driscoll type and we don't bring in a Peatling type. Have always felt he could be good in there, plus Bevo happened to mention a few weeks ago how he thought he could be one to go in there.

[azabob]

I might have missed that AB, where did you see that?


I believe he has mentioned it a few times. The context is that we had multiple dratfs where wer priortised talls due to the opportunties i.e. Darcy, Marra, Buss and Croft and we have not taken enough high end mids and utlities (obviously tried to rectify that last year with Sanders).

AP is correct.

He mentioned it most recently in his after-match press conference from Friday night.

[azabob]

Can anyone else see Williams training as mid this preseason? I have a feeling this could happen if we pick up an O'Driscoll type and we don't bring in a Peatling type. Have always felt he could be good in there, plus Bevo happened to mention a few weeks ago how he thought he could be one to go in there.

I don't see why not. Didn't he also get like 1021 possessions in one underage match before being drafted?

[jDogs]

I don't see why not. Didn't he also get like 1021 possessions in one underage match before being drafted?

56 touch game which put him on the draft radar.

[jazzadogs]

One year on and we are worse off. Sanders was drafted but now losing a few players.

As Jeemak mentioned in post #3, should Cody be now training as a mid instead of p[laying the small forward role?

Great bump of this incredibly clever, good looking and forward thinking poster.

It's a real mess we find ourselves in. Three more out the door this year in Baz, Macrae and Garcia (although based on their most recent games, they are more high half forwards) - how many will we bring in? So much of our list management discussion is focussed on getting a small defender, tall back, small forward...we need more midfielders who can influence at stoppages.

[JanLorMill]

Can anyone else see Williams training as mid this preseason? I have a feeling this could happen if we pick up an O'Driscoll type and we don't bring in a Peatling type. Have always felt he could be good in there, plus Bevo happened to mention a few weeks ago how he thought he could be one to go in there.
Another slowish mid is not what we need.

[bornadog]

Another slowish mid is not what we need.

We need a good outside with speed

[macca]

Beveridge has indicated that "utilities" are our priority for list management gaps.

I wonder if this will progress Freijah into the midfield group this preseason or he will continue to train with the defenders.

We are desperate for the Sanders pick to pay off.

That would be just a bad idea.

Jack of all trades master of none.

Can't we just get fast players who can kick properly ?

[DOG GOD]

That would be just a bad idea.

Jack of all trades master of none.

Can't we just get fast players who can kick properly ?

Yep agree…should be simple, but nothing with this club is simple

[kruder]

Can anyone else see Williams training as mid this preseason? I have a feeling this could happen if we pick up an O'Driscoll type and we don't bring in a Peatling type. Have always felt he could be good in there, plus Bevo happened to mention a few weeks ago how he thought he could be one to go in there.

Bevo mentioned it on 360 recently that they see Williams having the ability to play inside mid.

[bornadog]

Bevo mentioned it on 360 recently that they see Williams having the ability to play inside mid.

What do you think? I think he is too slow

[kruder]

What do you think? I think he is too slow

I think too much is being made of speed being the issue on Friday night we just didn't turn up, worth noting PA has plenty of speed in the midfield got smashed. Ive always thought he can play inside mid, has a nice step and a neat kick I think we need to add speed/skill on the flanks more so.

[WBFC4FFC]

Don’t we have Cooney’s son and another West eligible in next year’s draft. Also, another Darcy as well (as ruck perhaps).

So three mids (of various types) could be at the club in a little over 12- months time.

[macca]

Can anyone else see Williams training as mid this preseason? I have a feeling this could happen if we pick up an O'Driscoll type and we don't bring in a Peatling type. Have always felt he could be good in there, plus Bevo happened to mention a few weeks ago how he thought he could be one to go in there.

If Williams plays in midfield, I hope Baker or Poulter fill the Wings spot. Both need to go up another level and be accurate kicks in the forward line delivery and for shots at goal.

[azabob]

If Williams plays in midfield, I hope Baker or Poulter fill the Wings spot. Both need to go up another level and be accurate kicks in the forward line delivery and for shots at goal.

My only concern is that neither Poulter or Baker have been able to make the wing opposite Bailey Williams their own. Not sure they are the answer if Williams moves to an inside mid.

[SquirrelGrip]

My only concern is that neither Poulter or Baker have been able to make the wing opposite Bailey Williams their own. Not sure they are the answer if Williams moves to an inside mid.

I agree. We want to improve our wing position. I’m interested in what O’Driscoll could provide here, perhaps Houston. Baker and Poulter are good depth, but we won’t improve they are first team wings next year. Caleb Daniel too needs to find a permanent spot and ended up rotating wing at the end of the season. Could Arty step up here?

[GVGjr]

My only concern is that neither Poulter or Baker have been able to make the wing opposite Bailey Williams their own. Not sure they are the answer if Williams moves to an inside mid.

They're good depth players but I agree they had their chances to to become somewhat regular players and didn't grasp them.

[Grantysghost]

My only concern is that neither Poulter or Baker have been able to make the wing opposite Bailey Williams their own. Not sure they are the answer if Williams moves to an inside mid.

We've got some wing issues.

I think Baker is better than Poulter. But clearly he's doing something wrong.

It's why I look at Caleb Windsor and think DAMN IT!

Anyway - what's Hunter doing next year x^]

[bulldogtragic]

They're good depth players but I agree they had their chances to to become somewhat regular players and didn't grasp them.

What are the odds both get extended next year? I’d say not high if their form line maintains.

[GVGjr]

What are the odds both get extended next year? I’d say not high if their form line maintains.

If I was Baker I'd have a close look at how Bramble established himself in the team as a regular player then have a look at the aging Duryea and JJ and my talks to the coaches would be about a potential change to the back line. It's worth a shot and he should realise that his chances of becoming a regular winger with us has come and gone.

[bornadog]

If I was Baker I'd have a close look at how Bramble established himself in the team as a regular player then have a look at the aging Duryea and JJ and my talks to the coaches would be about a potential change to the back line. It's worth a shot and he should realise that his chances of becoming a regular winger with us has come and gone.

Baker played in the backline in the last few VFL games in the H&A and I thought he did well. Not sure where he played in the last final.


I think Baker is better than Poulter. But clearly he's doing something wrong.

I think he is not consistent for 4 quarters and only plays in bursts

[GVGjr]

Baker and Poulter were on the wings in the last final.
They've pretty much trained there and even in scratch matches are placed on the wing.
With a full preseason training as a defender it might be his best chance at getting another contract

[josie]

Baker played in the backline in the last few VFL games in the H&A and I thought he did well. Not sure where he played in the last final.



I think he is not consistent for 4 quarters and only plays in bursts

Baker can turn it over a bit but he does have toe & never gives up. I do think both teams have been a bit guilty of not giving it to him when he has made good position.

[1eyedog]

Baker can turn it over a bit but he does have toe & never gives up. I do think both teams have been a bit guilty of not giving it to him when he has made good position.

One thing I wanted to see this year was Baker trialled at half back and Richards have more on ball time. I'm not convinced Baker can defend but like you say he has a crack and has some speed. He also has a penetraing kick.

I was hoping with JJ out for most of the season Bevo might pull the lever. I realise it's not like for like because Ed gives us coverage above his head but thought it would be worth trialling mainly to get Ed in the middle.

[kickit2Koly]

I think long term Gallagher and Friejah will be our wings. I think our most pressing need is a inside burst mid. Would love a Butters or Rayner otherwise hit the draft.

We certainly need midfield depth though. It's crazy to think 3 years ago our Mid depth was the envy of the competition and we had no key position stocks. How quickly things turn.

[azabob]

I think long term Gallagher and Friejah will be our wings. I think our most pressing need is a inside burst mid. Would love a Butters or Rayner otherwise hit the draft.

We certainly need midfield depth though. It's crazy to think 3 years ago our Mid depth was the envy of the competition and we had no key position stocks. How quickly things turn.

Do you think Richards can be the burst inside mid?

[kickit2Koly]

Do you think Richards can be the burst inside mid?

Yeah I do but his ball use is so good I think I'd prefer him as first receiver. If you take Nick Diacos as an example, having to play inside really hurt his ball use this year.

[azabob]

Yeah I do but his ball use is so good I think I'd prefer him as first receiver. If you take Nick Diacos as an example, having to play inside really hurt his ball use this year.

Yeah, good call. I had not thought about it like that.

[azabob]

Yeah I do but his ball use is so good I think I'd prefer him as first receiver. If you take Nick Diacos as an example, having to play inside really hurt his ball use this year.

Yeah, good call. I had not thought about it like that.

[Mofra]

Can anyone else see Williams training as mid this preseason? I have a feeling this could happen if we pick up an O'Driscoll type and we don't bring in a Peatling type. Have always felt he could be good in there, plus Bevo happened to mention a few weeks ago how he thought he could be one to go in there.
He's statistically in the top 5 wings in the competition. Leave him there.

[Danjul]

Baker played in the backline in the last few VFL games in the H&A and I thought he did well. Not sure where he played in the last final.



I think he is not consistent for 4 quarters and only plays in bursts

Baker came on as a sub, got 19 possessions, 4 bounces and 3 goals.
To me that is potential.

After that he got only 3 games and 2 subs. I don?t think he is seen as relevant.

[soupman]

I really like Baker as well and think he gets judged harshly by the MC. Has also been one of our most effective sub options.

Has intensity, speed, can cover the ground, finds the goals, holds his position. I'm.not sure what we are looking fir on the wing that he isn't able to provide to a sufficient level considering the alternatives.

[jeemak]

My issue with Baker, and I'd be surprised if it's not the same with the MC, is that he is completely underwater in defensive third open play. Only Khamis looks worse when a bit of groundball chaos is thrown into the mix.

He's excellent from our half back and forwards from there, runs hard and penetrates by foot.

[kickit2Koly]

My issue with Baker, and I'd be surprised if it's not the same with the MC, is that he is completely underwater in defensive third open play. Only Khamis looks worse when a bit of groundball chaos is thrown into the mix.

He's excellent from our half back and forwards from there, runs hard and penetrates by foot.

I think the biggest issue with Baker is the difference between his best and worst in enormous. At his best he’s a fast hard running wingman who kicks goals(see Gold Coast game). At his worst he misses targets by 15ms and put 3 kicks under no pressure out on the full (see the bomber game).

[Mofra]

One thing I wanted to see this year was Baker trialled at half back and Richards have more on ball time. I'm not convinced Baker can defend but like you say he has a crack and has some speed. He also has a penetraing kick.

I was hoping with JJ out for most of the season Bevo might pull the lever. I realise it's not like for like because Ed gives us coverage above his head but thought it would be worth trialling mainly to get Ed in the middle.
Baker has the advantage of moving the ball forward at all opportunity which is how we seem to be heading as a team - territory and ball speed over trying to be 'perfect' with every disposal.

[anfo27]

What do you think? I think he is too slow

I like the idea myself. I get the feeling Bailey just cruises. He has enormous natural ability but I wonder what his dedication is like. If he dedicated himself fully to getting the best out of himself he would be an awesome inside mid. His tough, a good size, good hands, a step, composure & a penetrating kick. Would have a defensive side to his game as well. I like the idea a lot!