Melbourne Watch 2023/24

[Testekill]

It feels like we kinda need a thread about everything going on at the Demons at the moment; Smith is getting banned long term as cocaine is classified as a PED during competition, May having clear attitude problems, Oliver going off the rails and only god knows what is up with Simon Goodwin. Feels like there's plenty coming and a dedicated thread might be appropriate.

[chef]

Giving off 00s WCE vibes.

[Rocket Science]

It galls me no end that all they have to hang their hat on from the Goodwin era is a premiership we personally gift wrapped for them and nothing less than them reclaiming their rightful place in the bottom third of ladder will ease that pain.

[GVGjr]

I'm genuinely concerned for Oliver. There are enough worrying signs that he needs a lot of help.
Joel Smith should receive a ban that goes into the season not just the pre-season.
May needs to grow up and start acting like a leader.
Who knows if the stories about Goodwin are accurate but that isn't good.

They would want to have an incident free summer so they can focus on 2024 the way they should.

[azabob]

If we go way back when, Glenn Bartlett basically wanted Goodwin sacked this time in 2020 due to his behaviour.

Bartlett also wanted hair testing done of all senior leaders within the club.

Sadly it appears Melbourne wasn?t a great culture fit for Lachie Hunter to help get his life back on track.

[Grantysghost]

If we go way back when, Glenn Bartlett basically wanted Goodwin sacked this time in 2020 due to his behaviour.

Bartlett also wanted hair testing done of all senior leaders within the club.

Sadly it appears Melbourne wasn?t a great culture fit for Lachie Hunter to help get his life back on track.

Goodwin was with Hird at the Dons too they were both injecting something to make them look more tanned?


He also said this to a photographer :

In December 2005, Goodwin apologised for threatening a newspaper photographer. He was among Crows players drinking at an inner-city hotel in Adelaide, on the same street as The Advertiser newspaper offices.

The newspaper sent a photographer to snap pictures from the street outside the pub. Goodwin saw him and confronted him.

?If you run any photos, I will f***ing kill you,? Goodwin said, according to the photographer

And was banned and fined for betting on games.

[bornadog]

https://www.woof.net.au/forum/blob:https://www.woof.net.au/105c4db5-f125-4893-baf0-b47e3fb81f40http://bit.ly/3Q5emyb

[GVGjr]

From SEN (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/10/22/this-doesnt-happen-cornes-responds-to-gawns-defence-of-dees-culture/)

Kane Cornes couldn’t disagree more with Max Gawn after the Melbourne captain suggested that the club’s culture is strong.

Those comments came after the headlines surrounding Clayton Oliver, the news of Joel Smith’s positive drug test coming to light and Steven May’s best and fairest comments.

Speaking to Channel Seven, Gawn said he was bullish on the club’s culture and said that similar incidents happen at most clubs.

“I am certainly very bullish on the culture that we have built over the last three or four years, that it can withstand adversity like this and we are able to get in the top four again, like we have in the last three years,” Gawn said.

“I am in pretty good dialogue with him (Oliver) and we talk every day, and he’s been at my house for a while, so I think Clayton is going really well.

“I understand the noise that is coming around Clayton could bring someone down, but I feel like the support that he has got around him will help him get through it.

“There has been some stuff over the last few weeks, but I feel like this happens at most clubs – adversity here, adversity there – obviously our adversity has all come at once.”

While Gawn believes similar issues occur at rival clubs, Cornes isn’t so sure, particularly with Smith and his positive drug test.

As Smith was found to have cocaine in his system on game day, Cornes was stunned that the utility used the drug midweek.

“Can I tell you it doesn't happen at most clubs, Max,” Cornes said on SEN Breakfast.

“Can I tell you that players don’t take drugs midweek.

“This does not happen at most clubs. The thought is that okay, ‘All these players get up to this’. That may be true, if I had to guess and I'd be just guessing that four out of 10 players perhaps indulge in this. Some would say more.

“But that would be in the off-season.

“I keep saying this, maybe I am naive with this, but I would be astounded if there are many players doing this a couple of days before a game.

“Max Gawn says this happens at most clubs. Well, no, it doesn't.”

As well as the Smith saga, Cornes again pointed to stories surrounding Oliver and May’s comments as proof that Melbourne’s issues are not prevalent at most clubs around the league.

“At most clubs, your best players don't have significant issues like Clayton Oliver has,” Cornes said.

“This story from Mark Robinson around Clayton Oliver … one East Melbourne resident recently revealed that Oliver after a light training session at Yarra Park in the summer of 2022 bent a number of windscreen wipers on cars in a side street.

“It doesn't happen at most clubs. Your best player doesn't walk down the street, bending the windscreens of cars. This doesn't happen.

“We've got the Oliver (saga), then we've got Smith (test), then we've got May embarrassing himself at the best and fairest saying that they would have won the premiership.

“I know it's in an intimate room, but you've got to be smarter than that. He's 31 years of age, Steven May.

“Max Gawn’s sitting here telling us the culture's good and Simon Goodwin is doing the same.

“I think they need to be a bit more honest about where their football club is at.

“This isn't an isolated event and it's certainly I think, incredibly serious.

“Something drastically wrong is going on with one of your players' lives if he's sitting at home or if he's at a seedy nightclub on a Friday before a Sunday game doing this.

“This doesn't happen, Max, at every other club.”

Reports suggest Smith is expecting to serve a three-month suspension for his positive test which would be served over the off-season.

[Grantysghost]

Is cocaine considered performance enhancing? Either way that ban seems manifestly innaproriate considering he was playing with it in his system.

Surely needs to miss actual games.

I'm all for education, not sure why this went public?

[hujsh]

?This story from Mark Robinson around Clayton Oliver ? one East Melbourne resident recently revealed that Oliver after a light training session at Yarra Park in the summer of 2022 bent a number of windscreen wipers on cars in a side street.

?It doesn't happen at most clubs. Your best player doesn't walk down the street, bending the windscreens of cars. This doesn't happen.


Okay send him to jail please. Teenager in the body of a 26 year old

[Testekill]

Is cocaine considered performance enhancing? Either way that ban seems manifestly innaproriate considering he was playing with it in his system.

Surely needs to miss actual games.

I'm all for education, not sure why this went public?

During competition it's classified as performance enhancing because it's a stimulant, I guess the only reason why it's just a 3 month ban is that they can't prove that he had used it on the day.

[Sedat]

Melbourne look like they are still living in denial - they have single-handedly destroyed the chance of a premiership dynasty though their own hubris. They destroyed the competition in 2021 and then went 10-0 to start 2022. Since then they have fallen apart on the field, and it stems from corners being cut off the field where behavioural standards have been tolerated (and are still being excused today if Gawn's interview is any indication). Talent is not an issue at Melbourne - pound for pound they have so much more overall talent than Richmond 2017-2020.

Ironically if they lost the 2021 GF (as they should have when they were 19 points down and not looking like scoring with 40 minutes to play), they probably would have smartened up their off-field activities and had a proper chance at creating a premiership dynasty. That flag papered over the off-field cracks.

[Topdog]

Sadly it appears Melbourne wasn?t a great culture fit for Lachie Hunter to help get his life back on track.

Players are acutely aware of what is happening at other clubs. That Lachie and Melbourne chose each other speaks volumes in my opinion.

[jazzadogs]

I do really hate Melbourne and LOVE their back to back straight sets knockouts - but they've won the most games of any team over the past three years, 3x top 4 finishes, a flag (and an AFLW flag), and will most likely win the McLelland Trophy for most successful club (men's and women's combined) this year, which gets the players $1 million to divide amongst themselves. Pretty impressive given their terrible culture...

[Sedat]

I do really hate Melbourne and LOVE their back to back straight sets knockouts - but they've won the most games of any team over the past three years, 3x top 4 finishes, a flag (and an AFLW flag), and will most likely win the McLelland Trophy for most successful club (men's and women's combined) this year, which gets the players $1 million to divide amongst themselves. Pretty impressive given their terrible culture...
Nobody remembers Port Adelaide finishing on top at the end of H&A in 2001-2003, only the Brisbane 3-peat.

Relative to their prodigious talent, IMO Melbourne have squandered the opportunity for 2-3 premierships in the last few years. Richmond cashed in big time with 3 flags in 4 years (only Mason Cox catching fire in the 2018 PF stopped them getting a 4-peat) and I reckon this current Melbourne team has a comfortably better list.

It's a critical year for them in 2024. If they flame out again, they are done in this window and with this list.

[SquirrelGrip]

It's a critical year for them in 2024. If they flame out again, they are done in this window and with this list.

Nothing would make me happier!

[jazzadogs]

Nobody remembers Port Adelaide finishing on top at the end of H&A in 2001-2003, only the Brisbane 3-peat.

Relative to their prodigious talent, IMO Melbourne have squandered the opportunity for 2-3 premierships in the last few years. Richmond cashed in big time with 3 flags in 4 years (only Mason Cox catching fire in the 2018 PF stopped them getting a 4-peat) and I reckon this current Melbourne team has a comfortably better list.

It's a critical year for them in 2024. If they flame out again, they are done in this window and with this list.

Agree with all of that, just being a bit of a devil's advocate that if we're having a go at them.... we're not doing much better, unfortunately.

Now Essendon, there's an enemy we can all laugh at!

[MrMahatma]

Nobody remembers Port Adelaide finishing on top at the end of H&A in 2001-2003, only the Brisbane 3-peat.

Relative to their prodigious talent, IMO Melbourne have squandered the opportunity for 2-3 premierships in the last few years. Richmond cashed in big time with 3 flags in 4 years (only Mason Cox catching fire in the 2018 PF stopped them getting a 4-peat) and I reckon this current Melbourne team has a comfortably better list.

It's a critical year for them in 2024. If they flame out again, they are done in this window and with this list.

I reckon Richmond's list was pretty good. Wouldn't say Dees are comfortably better, or even better at all.

It's great to see the Dees implode, but it only gives me an ounce of joy because it means they haven't dominated at the same time that we haven't dominated. I wish we'd finished top 4 the past 2 years.

[Grantysghost]

I reckon Richmond's list was pretty good. Wouldn't say Dees are comfortably better, or even better at all.

It's great to see the Dees implode, but it only gives me an ounce of joy because it means they haven't dominated at the same time that we haven't dominated. I wish we'd finished top 4 the past 2 years.

Agree I think the Demons are insanely over rated at times. Tigers had more balance, I mean they actually had a forward line.
Looking at it from the other angle, maybe they got a bit lucky in 21 and this is more their normal.
When your KPF are Tom Mcdonald and Ben Brown you're hardly crazy good. Strange part is they still didn't address it. Guess they think Petty is the answer with Van Rooyen.

[jeemak]

Is cocaine considered performance enhancing? Either way that ban seems manifestly innaproriate considering he was playing with it in his system.

Surely needs to miss actual games.

I'm all for education, not sure why this went public?

Depends how good the gear is. Good gear, no, no way.

Maybe in the old days where you could just bash into people to be effective, but today's game is a thinking game and it's not a great thinking drug.

[Sedat]

I reckon Richmond's list was pretty good. Wouldn't say Dees are comfortably better, or even better at all.

It's great to see the Dees implode, but it only gives me an ounce of joy because it means they haven't dominated at the same time that we haven't dominated. I wish we'd finished top 4 the past 2 years.
They have a generational ruckman, Petracca is their Dusty, the rest of their midfield is elite and runs deep (much more talented and deeper than Richmond), and they have elite key pillars down back. With that much talent on almost every line, they really should have cashed in, notwithstanding their not great key forwards - we won a flag with Zaine and 180cm Liam Picken as our notional key forwards. Collingwood just won with Mihocek and Frampton!

I'm delighted they have imploded, because I rate their list build incredibly highly - for mine they have under-achieved significantly since 2018 when they first made the PF. They have had the tools ever since then and simply haven't cashed in. Richmond to their eternal credit have, and I reckon coaching has a lot to do with it.

[Testekill]

Demons probably have the most outright talented list to have won the premiership since the Hawks dynasty. We had some stars like Bont, a lot of good reliable workhorses and depth players that played out of their skin in the biggest game of their career. Richmond had a handful of stars and then a lot of very well drilled solid players who knew their roles.

Demons are very strong on most lines outside of their weak forward line. They're absolutely underperforming since 2018 and I'm sure that there are people at the club who are aware of this and the pressure it puts on them.

[GVGjr]

Demons probably have the most outright talented list to have won the premiership since the Hawks dynasty. We had some stars like Bont, a lot of good reliable workhorses and depth players that played out of their skin in the biggest game of their career. Richmond had a handful of stars and then a lot of very well drilled solid players who knew their roles.

Demons are very strong on most lines outside of their weak forward line. They're absolutely underperforming since 2018 and I'm sure that there are people at the club who are aware of this and the pressure it puts on them.

Their list management over a number of years was very good and we seemed to have rated players very similar too them but they out-positioned us in the draft a few times. They need a key forward badly now and have some challenges with their culture. It will be interesting to see if their talent prevails or if they struggle next season.

[MrMahatma]

Demons probably have the most outright talented list to have won the premiership since the Hawks dynasty. We had some stars like Bont, a lot of good reliable workhorses and depth players that played out of their skin in the biggest game of their career. Richmond had a handful of stars and then a lot of very well drilled solid players who knew their roles.

Demons are very strong on most lines outside of their weak forward line. They're absolutely underperforming since 2018 and I'm sure that there are people at the club who are aware of this and the pressure it puts on them.

On what basis are they so talented? I’m not saying they’re shit, but they had 1 All Australian this season. Even we had 2.

[Grantysghost]

On what basis are they so talented? I’m not saying they’re shit, but they had 1 All Australian this season. Even we had 2.

Charlie Spargo.

[azabob]

The media is coming for them hard. They are now rehashing events that have been previously reported and adding a slight twist and reporting it as new and exclusive.

[W W Biscuit]

In terms of the Demon's star-studded list and their list management in general, I wouldn't want to forget that the current iteration of their team was built on some fairly preferential treatment over the years by the AFL, either through act or omission. Being allowed to keep high draft picks on the back of tanking (e.g., 2013), extremely generous compensations for departed players (think Scully, Frawley...), some very dodgy draft manoeuvring (Jack Viney), gifted a high-profile coach...

North Melbourne are currently trying their best to imitate the Melbourne FC model. If, in a few years time, the Kangaroos have an almighty list that are winning premierships for fun, I will be similarly reserved in my praise for their achievements.

[MrMahatma]

In terms of the Demon's star-studded list and their list management in general, I wouldn't want to forget that the current iteration of their team was built on some fairly preferential treatment over the years by the AFL, either through act or omission. Being allowed to keep high draft picks on the back of tanking (e.g., 2013), extremely generous compensations for departed players (think Scully, Frawley...), some very dodgy draft manoeuvring (Jack Viney), gifted a high-profile coach...

North Melbourne are currently trying their best to imitate the Melbourne FC model. If, in a few years time, the Kangaroos have an almighty list that are winning premierships for fun, I will be similarly reserved in my praise for their achievements.

I reckon our list is as good as Melbourne’s. Theirs is a bit more physically mature in some key spots. But ours has the talent.

[Grantysghost]

In terms of the Demon's star-studded list and their list management in general, I wouldn't want to forget that the current iteration of their team was built on some fairly preferential treatment over the years by the AFL, either through act or omission. Being allowed to keep high draft picks on the back of tanking (e.g., 2013), extremely generous compensations for departed players (think Scully, Frawley...), some very dodgy draft manoeuvring (Jack Viney), gifted a high-profile coach...

North Melbourne are currently trying their best to imitate the Melbourne FC model. If, in a few years time, the Kangaroos have an almighty list that are winning premierships for fun, I will be similarly reserved in my praise for their achievements.

Word WW.

The Demons are the AFLs side after they basically ceased to exist as a going concern during the Mark Neeld years.
They brought in Jackson, Roos and armed them with as much assistance as their tight rope would allow without massive blow back and here we are.

[Bulldog Joe]

I am currently overseas on a trip and one of our companions is a bit Melbourne tragic.
The message she is getting from fellow Demon supporters is that the current issues are somehow related to Lachie Hunter.

Have we placed Lachie in the Melbourne camp to infiltrate and destroy as an undercover agent?

[hujsh]

I am currently overseas on a trip and one of our companions is a bit Melbourne tragic.
The message she is getting from fellow Demon supporters is that the current issues are somehow related to Lachie Hunter.

Have we placed Lachie in the Melbourne camp to infiltrate and destroy as an undercover agent?

Supposedly these issues have been there in some form or another since 2020 or earlier (when the president wanted to sack Goodwin) so if Hunter has played any role it's just been in making the existing wound fester a bit more.

I do like the idea though

[Sedat]

In terms of the Demon's star-studded list and their list management in general, I wouldn't want to forget that the current iteration of their team was built on some fairly preferential treatment over the years by the AFL, either through act or omission. Being allowed to keep high draft picks on the back of tanking (e.g., 2013), extremely generous compensations for departed players (think Scully, Frawley...), some very dodgy draft manoeuvring (Jack Viney), gifted a high-profile coach...

North Melbourne are currently trying their best to imitate the Melbourne FC model. If, in a few years time, the Kangaroos have an almighty list that are winning premierships for fun, I will be similarly reserved in my praise for their achievements.
No doubt about it, they had enormous assistance early doors in their list build as you have highlighted above. They did then start to nail their picks as well to be fair. All up, it makes their under-achievement since 2019 even more apparent.

I can also see North following a similar trajectory, especially if they nail their picks for the next couple of years. They sure have had a fair old leg-up from City Hall.

[Grantysghost]

Supposedly these issues have been there in some form or another since 2020 or earlier (when the president wanted to sack Goodwin) so if Hunter has played any role it's just been in making the existing wound fester a bit more.

I do like the idea though

Yes, you just to have to search Glenn Bartlett and you'll find all you need.

[ReLoad]

I say, terrible business ol’ chap. One simply doesn’t air one’s dirty laundry for all and sundry.

It reminds me of the time the chateau la tour ‘63 was corked.

Frightful business, I’m heading down to Sorrento for a few months til this all blows over.

[KT31]

I say, terrible business ol’ chap. One simply doesn’t air one’s dirty laundry for all and sundry.

It reminds me of the time the chateau la tour ‘63 was corked.

Frightful business, I’m heading down to Sorrento for a few months til this all blows over.

Is it wrong that I read this in my head as Doctor Bombay?

[Testekill]

I am currently overseas on a trip and one of our companions is a bit Melbourne tragic.
The message she is getting from fellow Demon supporters is that the current issues are somehow related to Lachie Hunter.

Have we placed Lachie in the Melbourne camp to infiltrate and destroy as an undercover agent?

The rot was there years ago considering that the president openly wanted to fire Goodwin.

[Twodogs]

I am currently overseas on a trip and one of our companions is a bit Melbourne tragic.
The message she is getting from fellow Demon supporters is that the current issues are somehow related to Lachie Hunter.

Have we placed Lachie in the Melbourne camp to infiltrate and destroy as an undercover agent?

Lachie is like a cuckoo in the nest?

[Twodogs]

In terms of the Demon's star-studded list and their list management in general, I wouldn't want to forget that the current iteration of their team was built on some fairly preferential treatment over the years by the AFL, either through act or omission. Being allowed to keep high draft picks on the back of tanking (e.g., 2013), extremely generous compensations for departed players (think Scully, Frawley...), some very dodgy draft manoeuvring (Jack Viney), gifted a high-profile coach...

North Melbourne are currently trying their best to imitate the Melbourne FC model. If, in a few years time, the Kangaroos have an almighty list that are winning premierships for fun, I will be similarly reserved in my praise for their achievements.

Bingo.

[GVGjr]

So Pert and Goodwiin fronted SEN and talked about some of the troubles the club has faced mainly Oliver and Smith and even with May.
Pert said it was the most professional and strong culture he's been associated with in his 40 year AFL career.

It's a ballsy move to front the media but I sensed Pert and Goodwin were well scripted to answer the questions before they were asked.

Goodwin reconfirmed he doesn't take drugs and he's sick of the way this has constantly been speculated on.

Goodwin also said he has not spoken to Joel Smith since news of his positive test was released which seems strange to me if the professional culture is as strong as they were trying to sell.

[Grantysghost]

So Pert and Goodwiin fronted SEN and talked about some of the troubles the club has faced mainly Oliver and Smith and even with May.
Pert said it was the most professional and strong culture he's been associated with in his 40 year AFL career.

It's a ballsy move to front the media but I sensed Pert and Goodwin were well scripted to answer the questions before they were asked.

Goodwin reconfirmed he doesn't take drugs and he's sick of the way this has constantly been speculated on.

Goodwin also said he has not spoken to Joel Smith since news of his positive test was released which seems strange to me if the professional culture is as strong as they were trying to sell.

Pert is the ultimate baller. Complete gamer.

Smart move getting out on the front foot.

Goodwin was at the Crows and Dons during dubious times, then had a president sacked who wanted to call it out.

You don't have to be Einstein.

[Twodogs]

I see Oliver is saying he suffers from ADHD and it was an adverse reaction to the medication that caused him to fall over the night he ended up at Footscray Hospital.

ADHD is a real bastard and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. But I'm medicated for ADHD too and I've never passed out from the effects.

[Grantysghost]

I see Oliver is saying he suffers from ADHD and it was an adverse reaction to the medication that caused him to fall over the night he ended up at Footscray Hospital.

ADHD is a real bastard and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. But I'm medicated for ADHD too and I've never passed out from the effects.

Would be a pretty low play to blame that if it wasn't true. Seems like something Melbourne would do.

[Twodogs]

Would be a pretty low play to blame that if it wasn't true. Seems like something Melbourne would do.

I have no doubt that Oliver probably does suffer from ADHD. His decision making and the problems he has all point to it, but the "my medication made me fall over and hit my head" story doesn't add up to me.

[EasternWest]

I have no doubt that Oliver probably does suffer from ADHD. His decision making and the problems he has all point to it, but the "my medication made me fall over and hit my head" story doesn't add up to me.

Yeah it stinks.

Like, I hope he's alright and if he has a problem he gets proper care, but it's not helpful to demonise actual medication like that.

[Grantysghost]

I have no doubt that Oliver probably does suffer from ADHD. His decision making and the problems he has all point to it, but the "my medication made me fall over and hit my head" story doesn't add up to me.

It does make sufferers search for balance from experience.
Red Bull or Vodka or both?

[jeemak]

Cultures with a bit of looseness are all good and well when there's little expectation but since WCE there's been the Hawks in 08, ourselves in 16 and Melbourne in 21 that haven't really dealt with the expectations of excellence post flag.

Will be interesting to see how Collingwood go.

[Grantysghost]

Cultures with a bit of looseness are all good and well when there's little expectation but since WCE there's been the Hawks in 08, ourselves in 16 and Melbourne in 21 that haven't really dealt with the expectations of excellence post flag.

Will be interesting to see how Collingwood go.

How did the Tigers do it ?

Considering that initial Broad photo I'm pretty surprised.

[mjp]

How did the Tigers do it ?

Considering that initial Broad photo I'm pretty surprised.

Lynch arriving after premiership #1 had a fair bit to do with it.

[Testekill]

https://www.watoday.com.au/sport/afl/joel-smith-to-test-new-anti-doping-provision-20231101-p5egqy.html


Melbourne forward Joel Smith is pushing to become the first AFL player to access a special anti-doping provision that would enable him to serve a ban of just one month after testing positive to cocaine on the day of a match.However, Smith’s prospects of having his case expedited by the AFL and Sport Integrity Australia are being frustrated by the lack of an AFL-approved drug treatment program needed to satisfy a requirement of the World Anti-Doping Code.
Smith is the first AFL player to test positive to a drug listed as a “substance of abuse”, a carve-out for commonly used recreational drugs adopted in 2021 by the World Anti-Doping Agency and all signatories to its code.
Under the provision, athletes who test positive to cocaine, ecstasy, heroin or cannabis or their metabolites are offered a three-month suspension instead of the mandatory, four-year penalty for other banned substances – as long as they convince anti-doping authorities they didn’t take the drug to gain a performance benefit.
The penalty can be further reduced to one month if an athlete completes a drug treatment program approved by the organisation with responsibility for managing their anti-doping infraction. In Smith’s case, that organisation is the AFL.
To make practical use of this provision, Smith needs the anti-doping system to move far more quickly than it normally does in Australia, where other recent cases involving AFL footballers and party drugs have taken between a year and 18 months to resolve.
Smith tested positive to cocaine and its metabolite, benzoylecgonine, on August 20 after Melbourne’s round 23 match against Hawthorn. He was formally notified of the test result on October 10 and has already served three weeks of a provisional suspension.
The AFL Players Association is representing Smith in his anti-doping case. Due to the confidentiality of anti-doping processes, sources from the AFLPA, AFL and Sport Integrity Australia declined to publicly discuss the case.
This masthead confirmed that Smith had waived his right to have a “B” sample analysed.
Discussions are continuing between the AFL and AFLPA and Melbourne player welfare officials to find a treatment course that will satisfy the anti-doping code.
To access the “substance of abuse” provision Smith must demonstrate that he ingested cocaine before 11.59pm on the day before the match and that, at the time he provided the sample, the concentration of cocaine in his system was below 10 nanograms, or one hundred-millionth of a gram, per millilitre of urine.
In the meantime, Smith is facing the opprobrium of his coach and club. Senior coach Simon Goodwin, in an interview recorded on Sunday, told SEN Radio he had not spoken to his player since the club was notified of his positive test.
“I can only go by how I feel, and when I first heard, I was incredibly angry, frustrated, to think that potentially we have a player in round 23 on the eve of a finals series not doing everything possible to help the success of our footy team,” Goodwin said. “I can only imagine that same feeling would be permeating through our supporter base.
“I haven’t spoken to Joel. I am going to let that process play out because I have a level of anger, of frustration towards it.”
Melbourne have indicated that Smith may face disciplinary action beyond any anti-doping penalty imposed by the AFL.
Smith, the son of retired Melbourne player Shaun Smith, had his most productive season with the club this year, playing 14 of 42 career games and establishing a regular spot in the senior team. At age 27, he is contracted until the end of next year.
Prior to his positive test, he was due to report for club pre-season training at the start of December.
CHIP LE GRAND






Feels a bit weird that he can just take his WADA suspension during his holiday. Also with how quickly cocaine goes through the system he either had to use it the day of the game or had a late night out on it the night before. You have to be absolutely COOKED for cocaine or amphetamines to be detectable after 48h.

[jazzadogs]

Winners of McLelland Trophy for best record in home and away season - Melbourne

Winners of 0/4 finals across AFL men's and women's - Melbourne.

[Grantysghost]

Winners of McLelland Trophy for best record in home and away season - Melbourne

Winners of 0/4 finals across AFL men's and women's - Melbourne.

Should be made to pay it back with interest. What kind of shizen idea is that. Couple of injuries in a ten game season and you could be done, your men's team could finish on top undefeated and someone else gets the million bucks. Give me strength.

[GVGjr]

Melbourne Demons midfielder Clayton Oliver will face court after reportedly being pulled over by authorities for driving with a license that was suspended on medical grounds. This happened after his seizure and it's the normal process that people have their license suspended until they have been given a clearance to resume driving.

[Testekill]

Doing this when that moron who killed 5 people in Daylesford is still in the news is absolute big brain stuff.

[ReLoad]

Doing this when that moron who killed 5 people in Daylesford is still in the news is absolute big brain stuff.

He’s clearly got significant issues for sure.

Would we take him at the dogs?

[Grantysghost]

He’s clearly got significant issues for sure.

Would we take him at the dogs?

Have to be a risk, however on the cheap : yes.

[GVGjr]

He’s clearly got significant issues for sure.

Would we take him at the dogs?

He's about one more questionable decision away from having to do some jail time. Driving with a suspended license is a serious charge and if other stupid decisions have been made in recent weeks and he's been caught he might catch an unsympathetic judge on a wrong day and pay a heavier price than just fines etc.

[ledge]

Melbourne are a carbon copy of us after 2016 .
Players not abiding by rules, Football club and the law.
They have a great list but not living up to it also seems familiar.

[mighty_west]

He’s clearly got significant issues for sure.

Would we take him at the dogs?

No, no way! the club already got rid of Hunter and Stringer for issues within' and out of the club, we wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole, besides, one player isn't the difference between winning and not winning a Premiership imo, Geelong and Hawthorn both showed that with Ablett and Buddy respectively, and whilst Clarry is a very good player, he's not in their class, not by a long way.

Unfortunately my wife and also a workmate have seizers, both have epilepsy and neither are allowed to drive for at least 1 year after a seizer (wifey doesn't drive anyway but still) before going through a barrage of tests, whilst having a seizer they can either completely blank out for a good few minutes (have witnessed that first hand at least 30 times in the space of 2 years) or even worse fall (workmate smashed her face taking her dog for a walk, she was a mess), face droops, frothing, shaking etc, couldn't imagine someone going through that whilst driving, so for Oliver to take that risk and put himself and others in risk is absolutely poor thinking, episodes seem to be completely random too, you never know when and my workmate has had a few driving episodes too after months of being fine, she just spent a week in hospital after being pulled over by police for driving all over the place 2 weeks back) and now can't drive for 12 months.

A mate of mine who works at the Herald Sun is a passionate Dees man, he is so over Oliver and all the issues at the club, you can see it killing him knowing after all those years of being down the bottom, tanking for draft picks etc, being destroyed by Geelong by 5000 points at Kardinia etc finally having one of the best lists and really should have another flag so soul destroying, i don't really bait him as being a lifelong Dogs supporter as we should all know what it's like to have that thrown at us for years.

The best thing they should have done was to trade Oliver, they really did go hard after the no.1 pick to get Reid and could have succeeded if they did dish him off.

[jazzadogs]

He would be very wrong to think this, but given the alleged rumours that his first seizure was related to drug use, he probably felt like the risk off him having another seizure without any drugs in his system was low.

Obviously it's still against the law and he needs to wait for his tests - but I think that would be the thought process of arrogant privileged white man.

[Rocket Science]

Would we take him at the dogs?

If we recruit one more objectionable head from that freakin mob ...

https://i.ibb.co/879TBFz/IMG-7568.jpg (https://ibb.co/3CcGstf)

[bornadog]

Mitch Cleary @cleary_mitch

Clayton Oliver has headed home from Melbourne’s training camp in Lorne to deal with personal medical challenges. Updates later on

[Testekill]

Oliver should not have even been back to training for another six months, he had a seizure like two months ago.

[GVGjr]

Oliver should not have even been back to training for another six months, he had a seizure like two months ago.

It just seems all the way through getting the balance of having him around his team mates and the support the club environment can offer and probably what's best for him in a purely medical perspective has been a struggle and isn't quite working.

[ledge]

I can see early retirement coming.

[josie]

I’m not a Dees fan but really hope Oliver receives wise advice/support & best of medical care. I’d like to see him well and hopefully playing like the match winner he can be, except against us.

[GVGjr]

I’m not a Dees fan but really hope Oliver receives wise advice/support & best of medical care. I’d like to see him well and hopefully playing like the match winner he can be, except against us.

I'd just about back it in that the club and his team mates have rallied around. He will be getting a level of support that many in society with similar challenges wouldn't. Lets hope he understands that some changes in his approach need to happen.

[bornadog]

It feels like we kinda need a thread about everything going on at the Demons at the moment; Smith is getting banned long term as cocaine is classified as a PED during competition, May having clear attitude problems, Oliver going off the rails and only god knows what is up with Simon Goodwin. Feels like there's plenty coming and a dedicated thread might be appropriate.

Melbourne footballer Joel Smith is facing a suspension of two years ? and possibly longer ? for taking cocaine.


EXCLUSIVE via @Robbo_heraldsun

I don't have access top the article. Is two years too long or not enough?

[Grantysghost]

Melbourne footballer Joel Smith is facing a suspension of two years ? and possibly longer ? for taking cocaine.


EXCLUSIVE via @Robbo_heraldsun

I don't have access top the article. Is two years too long or not enough?
Oliver will be fine to play I'm sure.

[bulldogtragic]

Melbourne footballer Joel Smith is facing a suspension of two years ? and possibly longer ? for taking cocaine.


EXCLUSIVE via @Robbo_heraldsun

I don't have access top the article. Is two years too long or not enough?

Sports Integrity Australia deemed as it was on match day it was performance enhancing.

So two years is the penalty.

[Axe Man]

Exclusive: Demons? Joel Smith faces minimum two-year ban for cocaine (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/news/exclusive-demons-joel-smith-faces-minimum-twoyear-ban-for-cocaine/news-story/682242cbc9a8d146ce24b3407e80a81f)

Melbourne footballer Joel Smith is facing a suspension of two years ? and possibly longer ? for taking cocaine.

Smith on Tuesday received a report from Sports Integrity Australia (SIA), which is believed to have found him guilty of taking a performance enhancing drug.

It?s expected Smith will fight the bombshell finding.

The hearing took place before Christmas.

Smith, who turns 28 next month, tested positive for cocaine on game day last year.

The urine sample was collected after the Demons defeated Hawthorn by 27 points at the MCG in round 23.

Smith?s appeal would centre on his camp successfully arguing that only a minuscule amount of cocaine was found in his system, ruling out the performance-enhancing finding.

AFL spokesperson Jay Allen said: ?The AFL advises that the matter involving Joel Smith of the Melbourne Football Club being investigated by Sport Integrity Australia (SIA) under the Australian Football Anti-Doping Code is ongoing.

?Joel remains provisionally suspended and as such he is not permitted to participate in Melbourne?s pre-season training when it recommences in the coming days.

?Due to the ongoing nature of the anti-doping process the AFL will not comment further at this time.?

The AFL Players Association is aware of the SIA letter to Smith.

It is understood SIA did not impose a penalty on the Demons forward, but sources told this masthead the findings pointed to at least a two-year suspension.

The Smith and Demons camps had been hopeful that the swingman would escape with a three-month ban under WADA (World Anti-Doping Agency) rules introduced in 2021.

The clause to escape with a three-month suspension for cocaine or marijuana centres on an athlete agreeing to undergo treatment for substance abuse.

They also must prove ?the substance was used out-of-competition and that its use was unrelated to sporting performance?.

Smith?s issue is that cocaine was detected in his system during competition.

The Herald Sun exclusively revealed on October 19 that the AFL had a fresh drug scandal on its hands following a positive test.

A two-year suspension shapes as a hammer blow for a club firmly in premiership mode, but severely lacking firepower and connection forward of the ball.

Smith and Bayley Fritsch led Melbourne?s goalkicking in last year?s finals series, each kicking four goals as the club was eliminated in straight sets at the MCG for the second consecutive season.

Smith signed a two-year contract extension midway through 2022, with that deal expiring at the end of the coming season.

If Smith fails in his bid to overturn any ban, it could place his career in jeopardy.

The SIA finding comes only weeks after Smith announced on social media his engagement to girlfriend Elise Carroll, with whom he shares a daughter, Tilly.

Several footy greats had earlier hit out at the possibility of Smith serving three months out of competition.

?They (the AFL) seem to reach in and find things that can minimise the impact of the penalty,? coaching legend Mick Malthouse said.

?Unfortunately, the AFL is always about image. If you have a soft penalty, you get a soft result. It?s got to be very, very harsh first up.?

Smith, the son of Dees great Shaun Smith, has played 42 games since he was signed as a Category B rookie in 2016.

[GVGjr]

Melbourne footballer Joel Smith is facing a suspension of two years ? and possibly longer ? for taking cocaine.


EXCLUSIVE via @Robbo_heraldsun

I don't have access top the article. Is two years too long or not enough?

Are you admitting that you follow Robbo on Twitter? How embarrassment :)

[GVGjr]

Demons’ Joel Smith faces minimum two-year ban for cocaine (https://www.codesports.com.au/afl/exclusive-demons-joel-smith-faces-minimum-twoyear-ban-for-cocaine/news-story/682242cbc9a8d146ce24b3407e80a81f)

Click the above link for the full article.

Melbourne footballer Joel Smith is expected to fight a bombshell finding that could leave his career in jeopardy as he faces a big suspension for taking cocaine.

Melbourne footballer Joel Smith is facing a suspension of two years — and possibly longer — for taking cocaine.

Smith on Tuesday received a report from Sports Integrity Australia (SIA), which is believed to have found him guilty of taking a performance enhancing drug.

It’s expected Smith will fight the bombshell finding.

The hearing took place before Christmas.

Smith, who turns 28 next month, tested positive for cocaine on game day last year.

The urine sample was collected after the Demons defeated Hawthorn by 27 points at the MCG in round 23.

Smith’s appeal would centre on his camp successfully arguing that only a minuscule amount of cocaine was found in his system, ruling out the performance-enhancing finding.

AFL spokesperson Jay Allen said: “The AFL advises that the matter involving Joel Smith of the Melbourne Football Club being investigated by Sport Integrity Australia (SIA) under the Australian Football Anti-Doping Code is ongoing.

“Joel remains provisionally suspended and as such he is not permitted to participate in Melbourne’s pre-season training when it recommences in the coming days.

“Due to the ongoing nature of the anti-doping process the AFL will not comment further at this time.”

The AFL Players Association is aware of the SIA letter to Smith.

It is understood SIA did not impose a penalty on the Demons forward, but sources told this masthead the findings pointed to at least a two-year suspension.

The Smith and Demons camps had been hopeful that the swingman would escape with a three-month ban under WADA (World Anti-Doping Agency) rules introduced in 2021.

The clause to escape with a three-month suspension for cocaine or marijuana centres on an athlete agreeing to undergo treatment for substance abuse.

They also must prove “the substance was used out-of-competition and that its use was unrelated to sporting performance”.

Smith’s issue is that cocaine was detected in his system during competition.

The Herald Sun exclusively revealed on October 19 that the AFL had a fresh drug scandal on its hands following a positive test.

[bornadog]

Are you admitting that you follow Robbo on Twitter? How embarrassment :)

No I don't, he blocked me when we traded for Tom Boyd. You may recall he said some nasty things about Boyd, the club etc and I had a go at him. I saw the tweet from Superfooty account

[FrediKanoute]

Rules are rules. Silly thing to do.

[jeemak]

Now I may have recently had cause to look into the efficacy of urine testing for specific drugs........no real reason or paranoia driving it as you could imagine.*

Anyway, with rack, one off usage is usually detectable within urine loosely between 0.5 and a couple of days maximum, regular usage (classified as a few times a week) up to about five days and chronic usage (daily over time) up to between ten and twenty days.

Body composition has a big influence on how long metabolites stay in the system, fat people longer, lean people less. This is an unqualified opinion, however, if he's pissed a hot rack sample after a footy game he's been on it hard in an equivalent time of say a Thursday night before a Saturday afternoon game, maybe even a Friday night versus a Saturday night game, or on game day itself. Otherwise he's had his snout in the trough a lot within the days and weeks leading up to the test.



*I recently had to submit to a urine test by surprise, the job I was going for wasn't advertised thus the requirement wasn't disclosed to me during negotiations. You can imagine my delight when I found out the very next morning after being given some weed by a friend that I was well in the hunt for said job (verbal offer), with only a medical to pass on my way to securing it...........

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Now I may have recently had cause to look into the efficacy of urine testing for specific drugs........no real reason or paranoia driving it as you could imagine.*

Anyway, with rack one off usage is usually detectable within urine loosely between 0.5 and a couple of days maximum, regular usage (classified as a few times a week) up to about five days and chronic usage (daily over time) up to between ten and twenty days.

Body composition has a big influence on how long metabolites stay in the system, fat people longer, lean people less. This is an unqualified opinion, however, if he's pissed a hot rack sample after a footy game he's been on it hard in an equivalent time of say a Thursday night before a Saturday afternoon game, maybe even a Friday night versus a Saturday night game, or on game day itself. Otherwise he's had his snout in the trough a lot within the days and weeks leading up to the test.



*I recently had to submit to a urine test by surprise, the job I was going for wasn't advertised thus the requirement wasn't disclosed to me during negotiations. You can imagine my delight when I found out the very next morning after being given some weed by a friend that I was well in the hunt for said job (verbal offer), with only a medical to pass on my way to securing it...........
That is some shit ass luck Jee.

[jeemak]

That is some shit ass luck Jee.

Ha....the weed piece is confounding I guess. I managed to push out the test to a week later, telling the company I had things planned and couldn't align with the clinic, so a Tuesday verbal resulted in a Wednesday week test. Weed sticks around longer but again, chronic usage is what gets you in trouble so I was less stressed by the time the test rolled around. However, the doc on Wednesday told me the company would have the report that night, but they actually didn't get it until late Friday afternoon. And I got the formal offer a little later after a pretty stressful 48 hours.

But by confounding I really mean that getting a positive result for having smoked weed to me isn't failing a drug test.......I say it's actually a pass. And if a company doesn't want me because of that it's not the company for me. I don't do it all the time, or even regularly, but weed's alright.

The odd thing is you get tested for a range of things (outside of the piss test, for example mobility, weight, etc.) for an hour and you don't get to ever see the results. The company does.

Rack is a grey area. And I also need to acknowledge that the weed wasn't "given to me by a friend" like I'm in high school. I smoked it, loved it, and own that I did.

[bornadog]

Ha....the weed piece is confounding I guess. I managed to push out the test to a week later, telling the company I had things planned and couldn't align with the clinic, so a Tuesday verbal resulted in a Wednesday week test. Weed sticks around longer but again, chronic usage is what gets you in trouble so I was less stressed by the time the test rolled around. However, the doc on Wednesday told me the company would have the report that night, but they actually didn't get it until late Friday afternoon. And I got the formal offer a little later after a pretty stressful 48 hours.

But by confounding I really mean that getting a positive result for having smoked weed to me isn't failing a drug test.......I say it's actually a pass. And if a company doesn't want me because of that it's not the company for me. I don't do it all the time, or even regularly, but weed's alright.

The odd thing is you get tested for a range of things (outside of the piss test, for example mobility, weight, etc.) for an hour and you don't get to ever see the results. The company does.

Rack is a grey area. And I also need to acknowledge that the weed wasn't "given to me by a friend" like I'm in high school. I smoked it, loved it, and own that I did.

So you got the role? Congratulations.

[GVGjr]

It will be interesting to see if the AFL find a loophole for Smith to escape out of or if they treat it seriously and take the opportunity to send a strong message to the competition. I tend to think it needs to be a strong message if they actually want to deter it.

[MrMahatma]

So you got the role? Congratulations.

Pretty much what I learnt from the post. Jee got a sweet new role... and maybe a roll.

[Sedat]

It will be interesting to see if the AFL find a loophole for Smith to escape out of or if they treat it seriously and take the opportunity to send a strong message to the competition. I tend to think it needs to be a strong message if they actually want to deter it.
They will send a strong and highly visible message via a stern press conference to show how serious they are about this issue, and then quietly in the background do everything possible to find a loophole to get Smith back playing ASAP. And when they find that loophole, they will very quietly rush out a website statement at "take the trash out" time (Friday late afternoon).

[Dry Rot]

I wonder what the sponsors of the Demons think of the actions of Smith and Oliver?

[Axe Man]

Baz Smith and Jack Ginnivan both got 2 week suspensions for being filmed taking drugs out of season. Joel Smith has has tested positive on a match day which is obviously a worse situation.

If it is true that Smith had such a small amount of cocaine in his system that it would in no way be performance enhancing is 2 years well and truly disproportionate to the crime?

To me the 3 month out of season ban that was mooted seemed too light on, he should miss some games based on the Baz and Ginnivan penalties, but 2 years seems over the top if no advantage was obtained.

[Twodogs]

Ha....the weed piece is confounding I guess. I managed to push out the test to a week later, telling the company I had things planned and couldn't align with the clinic, so a Tuesday verbal resulted in a Wednesday week test. Weed sticks around longer but again, chronic usage is what gets you in trouble so I was less stressed by the time the test rolled around. However, the doc on Wednesday told me the company would have the report that night, but they actually didn't get it until late Friday afternoon. And I got the formal offer a little later after a pretty stressful 48 hours.

But by confounding I really mean that getting a positive result for having smoked weed to me isn't failing a drug test.......I say it's actually a pass. And if a company doesn't want me because of that it's not the company for me. I don't do it all the time, or even regularly, but weed's alright.

The odd thing is you get tested for a range of things (outside of the piss test, for example mobility, weight, etc.) for an hour and you don't get to ever see the results. The company does.

Rack is a grey area. And I also need to acknowledge that the weed wasn't "given to me by a friend" like I'm in high school. I smoked it, loved it, and own that I did.

Yeah I love it too but for one is too many and a thousand ain't enough.

[Twodogs]

Xander McGuire on Twitter just now:


Breaking: Clayton Oliver has not returned to Melbourne for the first day of training in 2024.

Clayton’s welfare team believe he is not yet ready for an AFL environment, but remain optimistic about a return date in the coming weeks.

@FootyonNine @9NewsMelb

[Stevo]

Baz Smith and Jack Ginnivan both got 2 week suspensions for being filmed taking drugs out of season. Joel Smith has has tested positive on a match day which is obviously a worse situation.

If it is true that Smith had such a small amount of cocaine in his system that it would in no way be performance enhancing is 2 years well and truly disproportionate to the crime?

To me the 3 month out of season ban that was mooted seemed too light on, he should miss some games based on the Baz and Ginnivan penalties, but 2 years seems over the top if no advantage was obtained.

There is almost a soft SovCit type public acceptance that taking drugs is inevitable and that AFL community including fans and sponsors should simply turn a blind eye to it for the players who represent our clubs.
I don't know what the penalty should be but 2 years does sound excessive and the 3 months option almost farcical.
This needs to be a 12 week in season ban from representing the club if the AFL is serious about getting the message out there that the players can't be consuming drugs during the season.

[ReLoad]

There is almost a soft SovCit type public acceptance that taking drugs is inevitable and that AFL community including fans and sponsors should simply turn a blind eye to it for the players who represent our clubs.
I don't know what the penalty should be but 2 years does sound excessive and the 3 months option almost farcical.
This needs to be a 12 week in season ban from representing the club if the AFL is serious about getting the message out there that the players can't be consuming drugs during the season.

the thing is its in season. cocaine is a performance enhancing drug. this isn't a societal thing, its cheating.

He can argue as much as he likes that it was at a party etc or whatever, but during the season, players taking it are performance enhanced.

Its no different to during the season if he tested positive for EPO or HGH.

[Bulldog Joe]

the thing is its in season. cocaine is a performance enhancing drug. this isn't a societal thing, its cheating.

He can argue as much as he likes that it was at a party etc or whatever, but during the season, players taking it are performance enhanced.

Its no different to during the season if he tested positive for EPO or HGH.

This is absolutely the truth.

It cannot be exempted as he has clearly taken the drug within the time frame of playing a game.

There cannot be an excuse of "it is only low level" as that still means a level of performance enhancement.

[Axe Man]

the thing is its in season. cocaine is a performance enhancing drug. this isn't a societal thing, its cheating.

He can argue as much as he likes that it was at a party etc or whatever, but during the season, players taking it are performance enhanced.

Its no different to during the season if he tested positive for EPO or HGH.


This is absolutely the truth.

It cannot be exempted as he has clearly taken the drug within the time frame of playing a game.

There cannot be an excuse of "it is only low level" as that still means a level of performance enhancement.

Let's just say for arguments sake his level was so low there was no likelihood that he recevied any performance enhancing effect. Should he receive the same punishment as someone who was fully juiced up on steroids or was undergoing some sort of sophisticated Lance Armstrong type program?

Not everything is black and white, should you receive the same punishment for 10kms over the speed limit as 100kms over the limit? Or 0.05 BAC vs 0.4?

If the facts are he recevied an advantage then by all means throw the book at him, if not there should be some common sense in the punishment.

[ledge]

Let's just say for arguments sake his level was so low there was no likelihood that he recevied any performance enhancing effect. Should he receive the same punishment as someone who was fully juiced up on steroids or was undergoing some sort of sophisticated Lance Armstrong type program?

Not everything is black and white, should you receive the same punishment for 10kms over the speed limit as 100kms over the limit? Or 0.05 BAC vs 0.4?

If the facts are he recevied an advantage then by all means throw the book at him, if not there should be some common sense in the punishment.

I have always been confused when players go in limping for a jab during a game because they twisted an ankle or something , then they come back out like a super fit athlete.
If that jab didn’t enhance their performance what did ?

[Sedat]

I have always been confused when players go in limping for a jab during a game because they twisted an ankle or something , then they come back out like a super fit athlete.
If that jab didn’t enhance their performance what did ?
The argument is that a painkiller jab only gets you to the existing level you are already capable of. PEDs take you to a higher level than you otherwise cannot reach without them.

[Grantysghost]

The argument is that a painkiller jab only gets you to the existing level you are already capable of. PEDs take you to a higher level than you otherwise cannot reach without them.
I'm with ledge. It's horseshit.

We pick and choose historical levels of performance.

Say an athlete is ageing, he has peds to get him to the place he was a year ago; to me that's the same as if you're injured in game and have a jab to get you where you were an hour ago.

[GVGjr]

Let's just say for arguments sake his level was so low there was no likelihood that he recevied any performance enhancing effect. Should he receive the same punishment as someone who was fully juiced up on steroids or was undergoing some sort of sophisticated Lance Armstrong type program?



There should be as close to zero tolerance as there can be for all infringements and even if what Smith took is at the low end it was done in season so there has to earn him a decent whack. At a guess at least 4 to 6 weeks in the playing season even for a minor infringement scaling up to 12 weeks and beyond for more serious levels.
Accepting even minor levels shouldn't be a consideration for leniency.

[GVGjr]

I have always been confused when players go in limping for a jab during a game because they twisted an ankle or something , then they come back out like a super fit athlete.
If that jab didn?t enhance their performance what did ?

I'm not sure why it's confusing.
I've also never seen a player come back on the ground to the extent you have used in your observation and the key difference is the pain killers are administered by an AFL certified medical professional who will be held accountable if it's done incorrectly.
At best the player is now capable of getting through the balance of the game but I think it's delusional if you think they miraculously become a super athlete. They often still look compromised but are more functional. The player will also likely pay a price straight after the game in terms of pain management and the pain killers are a temporary measure not for the longer terms as PED are.

[GVGjr]

From Kane Cornes on SEN

Kane Cornes doesn’t feel much sympathy for Melbourne utility Joel Smith after The Herald Sun reported on Wednesday that the 27-year-old is facing a ban of two or more years for testing positive for cocaine.

Smith tested positive for cocaine in his system on a game day - which is considered performance-enhancing. The positive test occurred after Melbourne defeated Hawthorn by 27 points in Round 23 of last season.

The swingman reportedly received communication from Sports Integrity Australia on Tuesday which is believed to have found him guilty of taking a performance-enhancing drug.

It’s believed that Smith recently fronted a Sports Integrity Australia panel to try and argue that his use of the drug wasn’t performance-enhancing. After that was knocked back, Cornes says the belief is that the Demon will appeal the lengthy ban.

“There was some hope I think from the Melbourne and Smith camp that for non-performance-enhancing drugs, if you can prove that it was taken not for those reasons, that you can get away with a three-month sanction - which would have expired today,” Cornes said on SEN Breakfast.

“But Smith is said to have had correspondence from Sports Integrity Australia who have said, ‘You’re facing two years’.

“It will be up to him to appeal, and the belief is that he will appeal.”

Following Smith’s positive test coming to light in October, Melbourne coach Simon Goodwin told SEN that he was “incredibly angry and frustrated” upon hearing of the news with the issue one of many the Demons faced in the off-season.

Cornes originally criticised Smith for using the drug in the lead-up to an important game ahead of a finals run, particularly as he labelled Smith a “fringe-ish type player”, and he still doesn’t have a lot of sympathy for the 27-year-old’s situation.

“I can understand that anger (shown by Goodwin) … I think it's alarming really that a player could (test positive on game day),” Cornes said.

“With the timeline, I'm not an expert on how long these drugs sit in your system. But a quick Google search will tell you a couple of days.

“The timeline doesn't add up, that you could sit there on a (in the week) before a game on a Sunday and be doing this.

“Look, I'm hardline on these things. I don't have a lot of sympathy for Joel Smith.”

While Smith will likely appeal his ban, Cornes isn’t expecting him to be available for Melbourne in the immediate future as he’ll now have to wait for the process to play out.

“The thing about this and Sports Integrity Australia and anything in relation to a drug violation, it takes time,” Cornes said.

“He may appeal and he would, otherwise his career is gone. He's about to turn 28 facing two years.

“But he'll be stood down until the appeal is heard and who knows how long that would take? These things take forever.”

Smith is facing a maximum four-year ban as a result of the positive test.

[GVGjr]

From SEN

Melbourne star Clayton Oliver hasn’t returned alongside his teammates for the first day of pre-season following the holiday period.

The Demons hit the track on Thursday morning at Casey Fields but the club has confirmed Oliver was absent as he continues to focus on his personal challenges.

Oliver endured a tough off-season which saw him linked to a move in the trade period which followed an ultimatum put to him by the club about his behaviour among other issues.

The midfielder also left the club’s training camp in Lorne and was charged with driving on a suspended license in December.

Melbourne’s GM of AFL Performance Alan Richardson says the club is supporting Oliver as he continues to work through his challenges.

“Clayton has personal issues that he has been dealing with. Clayton has been working extremely closely with his personal medical team, and with the support of key Club staff, in order to manage these challenges,” Richardson said via a statement.

“The Club fully supports Clayton taking this important time out which will allow him to focus on these challenges.

“Our primary focus is Clayton’s overall wellbeing, and we will continue to support him through this period.

“It’s important for Clayton that we respect his privacy and his need for time and space.”

The 2021 premiership player has featured 161 times for the Demons and is a four-time club best and fairest winner.

Melbourne begins their 2024 campaign with an Opening Round clash against Sydney on Thursday, March 7 at the SCG.

[Grantysghost]

I'm not sure why it's confusing.
I've also never seen a player come back on the ground to the extent you have used in your observation and the key difference is the pain killers are administered by an AFL certified medical professional who will be held accountable if it's done incorrectly.
At best the player is now capable of getting through the balance of the game but I think it's delusional if you think they miraculously become a super athlete. They often still look compromised but are more functional. The player will also likely pay a price straight after the game in terms of pain management and the pain killers are a temporary measure not for the longer terms as PED are.
Without intervention though they can't play to the standard the drugs allow. It's not confusing at all for mine.
I'd ban any type of drug that allows someone to achieve a level they wouldn't be able to without it.

[Bulldog Joe]

Let's just say for arguments sake his level was so low there was no likelihood that he recevied any performance enhancing effect. Should he receive the same punishment as someone who was fully juiced up on steroids or was undergoing some sort of sophisticated Lance Armstrong type program?

Not everything is black and white, should you receive the same punishment for 10kms over the speed limit as 100kms over the limit? Or 0.05 BAC vs 0.4?

If the facts are he recevied an advantage then by all means throw the book at him, if not there should be some common sense in the punishment.

My understanding is the levels for a positive are set to catch the performance enhancing level.
If it was truly insignificant it wouldn't be a positive test.

[Dry Rot]

Melbourne begins their 2024 campaign with an Opening Round clash against Sydney on Thursday, March 7 at the SCG.

Demons are a rabble.

Swans will belt them Round 1. Grundy can't wait.

[jazzadogs]

Clayton Oliver's fall is startling, and pretty sad. 6 months ago (or just before his injury, whenever that was), he was being talked up as on track to be the greatest Demon of modern history. 4 B&Fs, a premiership, and hopefully more of each to come...

Obviously none of us know the exact details of his current issues, but I wish him good luck in getting his life back on track (whether that ends up being on field or not).

[GVGjr]

Clayton Oliver's fall is startling, and pretty sad. 6 months ago (or just before his injury, whenever that was), he was being talked up as on track to be the greatest Demon of modern history. 4 B&Fs, a premiership, and hopefully more of each to come...

Obviously none of us know the exact details of his current issues, but I wish him good luck in getting his life back on track (whether that ends up being on field or not).

Sounds like he's going through a horrific challenge at the moment and he needs to start stringing some good days together.

[Vred]

Prediction:
Won't make the 8
Goodwin moved on
Mass exodus of players end of year

[FrediKanoute]

the thing is its in season. cocaine is a performance enhancing drug. this isn't a societal thing, its cheating.

He can argue as much as he likes that it was at a party etc or whatever, but during the season, players taking it are performance enhanced.

Its no different to during the season if he tested positive for EPO or HGH.

That of course assumes that not everyone is taking it.

Lets not forget that its also illegal, a class A drug.

[bornadog]

Clayton Oliver's fall is startling, and pretty sad. 6 months ago (or just before his injury, whenever that was), he was being talked up as on track to be the greatest Demon of modern history. 4 B&Fs, a premiership, and hopefully more of each to come...

Obviously none of us know the exact details of his current issues, but I wish him good luck in getting his life back on track (whether that ends up being on field or not).

He obviously has some major issues in his life and needs help. Hopefully for his sake he sorts things out.

[GVGjr]

This is getting serious now

AFL 2024: Melbourne footballer Joel Smith accused of cocaine trafficking (https://www.codesports.com.au/afl/afl-2024-melbourne-footballer-joel-smith-accused-of-cocaine-trafficking/news-story/c0dda064bb20e99984b27b1944b91c3b)

The failed drugs test probe into Melbourne’s Joel Smith has taken a dramatic turn, with anti-doping investigators accusing the Demon of cocaine trafficking.

Anti-doping investigators have accused Melbourne footballer Joel Smith of cocaine trafficking in a dramatic escalation of his failed drugs test probe.

Sport Integrity Australia officials have uncovered multiple text messages sent by Smith referencing cocaine, after reviewing his phone.

In one message sent to Demons teammates last year, he offered them a quantity of the drug, it is alleged.

This masthead has not confirmed how many Melbourne players the SMS was sent to, or the amount of cocaine offered.

Any attempt to supply a prohibited substance, even in small quantities, can be considered trafficking under national anti-doping regulations.

SIA has asserted to Smith that he has violated several anti-doping rules and asked him to respond by mid-March, before it delivers a finding.

The AFL is understood to be awaiting the outcome of the SIA probe before deciding whether to launch its own integrity unit investigation.

Allegations and evidence could also be referred to police.

Smith, 27, was already facing a suspension of two years after testing positive to cocaine on game day late last season.

He was initially hoping for a ban of three months after his positive urine sample was collected after the Demons defeated Hawthorn by 27 points at the MCG in round 23.

But the ramifications for Smith could now be much more serious, with a potential four-year ban mooted, while Melbourne also faces questions.

The AFL has been approached for comment, but had not responded by the time of publication. Smith’s management and legal teams declined to comment.

A SIA spokesman said the agency did not comment on “operational matters”.

One source close to the probe said Smith should not be “scapegoated” over what they asserted was a wider club issue.

“It looks like they are planning to hang Joel out to dry for behaviour that is commonplace at Melbourne,” the source said.

“It is not unusual for a group of young men who party together to share drugs. Joel might be foolish but he’s hardly Tony Mokbel.

“The club should be taking responsibility for what is happening to Joel instead of blaming him in order to cover up a much wider problem. Joel is not a bad apple in a barrel of clean ones – the whole joint is rotten.”

More if you click the link above and are a member of Code Sports

[bulldogtragic]

I guess they’ll have a MSD pick. So that’s a positive for Melbourne.

Actually, they might likely not. That’s a shame.

Now for the articles for years about how they couldn’t handle success.

[Testekill]

That escalated very quickly from cocaine in his system to trafficking.

[Testekill]

AFL are going to have to find a very large rug considering the allegations.

[bulldogtragic]

That escalated very quickly from cocaine in his system to trafficking.

It’s a very technical interpretation of trafficking. Like how if someone touches someone else can be assault. Just giving any drug to someone else is technically trafficking. Everyone sitting around passing the dutchie to the left hand side are all drug traffickers.

[angelopetraglia]

Melbourne. What a cluster f*^&

[jazzadogs]

“The club should be taking responsibility for what is happening to Joel instead of blaming him in order to cover up a much wider problem. Joel is not a bad apple in a barrel of clean ones – the whole joint is rotten.”


*Chef's kiss*

[Dry Rot]

It seems that they found some very interesting outgoing texts from Smith to other players. I'm more interested in the replies they found.

[Dry Rot]

On field, the Demons have quite a few tall forward problems for the opening rounds of the season.

Tall order facing Dees' attack ahead of Opening Round

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1077497/tall-order-facing-dees-forward-line-ahead-of-opening-round

[josie]

It seems that they found some very interesting outgoing texts from Smith to other players. I'm more interested in the replies they found.

Exactly my thoughts.

[Twodogs]

It’s a very technical interpretation of trafficking. Like how if someone touches someone else can be assault. Just giving any drug to someone else is technically trafficking. Everyone sitting around passing the dutchie to the left hand side are all drug traffickers.

Sports Integrity Australia have a different interpretation of trafficking than the police don't they?

[Bulldog4life]

This is getting serious now

AFL 2024: Melbourne footballer Joel Smith accused of cocaine trafficking (https://www.codesports.com.au/afl/afl-2024-melbourne-footballer-joel-smith-accused-of-cocaine-trafficking/news-story/c0dda064bb20e99984b27b1944b91c3b)

The failed drugs test probe into Melbourne?s Joel Smith has taken a dramatic turn, with anti-doping investigators accusing the Demon of cocaine trafficking.

Anti-doping investigators have accused Melbourne footballer Joel Smith of cocaine trafficking in a dramatic escalation of his failed drugs test probe.

Sport Integrity Australia officials have uncovered multiple text messages sent by Smith referencing cocaine, after reviewing his phone.

In one message sent to Demons teammates last year, he offered them a quantity of the drug, it is alleged.

This masthead has not confirmed how many Melbourne players the SMS was sent to, or the amount of cocaine offered.

Any attempt to supply a prohibited substance, even in small quantities, can be considered trafficking under national anti-doping regulations.

SIA has asserted to Smith that he has violated several anti-doping rules and asked him to respond by mid-March, before it delivers a finding.

The AFL is understood to be awaiting the outcome of the SIA probe before deciding whether to launch its own integrity unit investigation.

Allegations and evidence could also be referred to police.

Smith, 27, was already facing a suspension of two years after testing positive to cocaine on game day late last season.

He was initially hoping for a ban of three months after his positive urine sample was collected after the Demons defeated Hawthorn by 27 points at the MCG in round 23.

But the ramifications for Smith could now be much more serious, with a potential four-year ban mooted, while Melbourne also faces questions.

The AFL has been approached for comment, but had not responded by the time of publication. Smith?s management and legal teams declined to comment.

A SIA spokesman said the agency did not comment on ?operational matters?.

One source close to the probe said Smith should not be ?scapegoated? over what they asserted was a wider club issue.

?It looks like they are planning to hang Joel out to dry for behaviour that is commonplace at Melbourne,? the source said.

?It is not unusual for a group of young men who party together to share drugs. Joel might be foolish but he?s hardly Tony Mokbel.

?The club should be taking responsibility for what is happening to Joel instead of blaming him in order to cover up a much wider problem. Joel is not a bad apple in a barrel of clean ones ? the whole joint is rotten.?

More if you click the link above and are a member of Code Sports

Fast Mokbel is a speed king but can go missing at the drop of a hat. Best is behind him.

[GVGjr]

You have to wonder if it all stops with Smith or if other players are identified and implicated?
Then there is the issue with how hard will the AFL will pursue Smith or any other players
What is becoming clearer is that the strikes system the AFL has in place is flawed.

[bulldogtragic]

Sports Integrity Australia have a different interpretation of trafficking than the police don't they?

To me it reads basically the same.

At least Talia had the sense to say his phone was lost.

[Grantysghost]

Can we restest the 21 blood samples? They really had too much energy for normal people.

[chef]

Can we restest the 21 blood samples? They really had too much energy for normal people.

They all had a bit of a bump at 3 quarter time?

[Grantysghost]

They all had a bit of a bump at 3 quarter time?

Ha - can anyone remember?

[Sedat]

Ha - can anyone remember?
We've all kept the receipts from that fateful night GG ;)

[ReLoad]

It seems that they found some very interesting outgoing texts from Smith to other players. I'm more interested in the replies they found.

And the coach?

[Sedat]

Fast Mokbel is a speed king but can go missing at the drop of a hat. Best is behind him.
I could have cracked the Mokbel case in 5 seconds. His Stephen Pappas passport was as obviously fake as his rug in the photo - no wog spells Steven with a 'ph', we keep it strictly simple with 'v' ;)

[mighty_west]

And the coach?

Nah, he was far too angry about the situation to even talk to Smith, or was it the fact Smith got caught? Hmmmm.

[jeemak]

Apparently Max needs hair tests to tell him if the club he leads has a drug culture:

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/it-is-quite-shocking-gawn-in-the-dark-about-smith-s-alleged-trafficking-20240221-p5f6ki.html

“No culture is ever fixed, I know ‘Trac’ [teammate Christian Petracca] has said this heaps, we are always working on it. In terms of the actual drug culture, the expression that is being used, I go back to that original comment – until someone tells me the hair tests that we have done are proving that we have a drug culture, that is the only marker that we have. In my 10 years, no one has told me we have a drug culture.”


What a croc of shit.

[Sedat]

Apparently Max needs hair tests to tell him if the club he leads has a drug culture:

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/it-is-quite-shocking-gawn-in-the-dark-about-smith-s-alleged-trafficking-20240221-p5f6ki.html

“No culture is ever fixed, I know ‘Trac’ [teammate Christian Petracca] has said this heaps, we are always working on it. In terms of the actual drug culture, the expression that is being used, I go back to that original comment – until someone tells me the hair tests that we have done are proving that we have a drug culture, that is the only marker that we have. In my 10 years, no one has told me we have a drug culture.”


What a croc of shit.
Easy to say when you are bald, unless they can do beard testing (test results have come in - good news is you aren't on drugs, unfortunately you are an inner city wanker with a predilection for graffiti infested laneways, boutique craft beer and artisan bakeries)

[ledge]

Easy to say when you are bald, unless they can do beard testing (test results have come in - good news is you aren't on drugs, unfortunately you are an inner city wanker with a predilection for graffiti infested laneways, boutique craft beer and artisan bakeries)

Hey I’m bald with a beard !

[Rocket Science]

Gosh. And to think we dispatched Hunter there for a fReSh StArT ...

[Twodogs]

To me it reads basically the same.

At least Talia had the sense to say his phone was lost.

The burden of proof is different from what I've read.

[angelopetraglia]

Brayshaw has retired due to concussion issues. Very sad to see and a big blow to their team.

[Grantysghost]

Brayshaw has retired due to concussion issues. Very sad to see and a big blow to their team.

That's a sad way to end, guy who ended his career got to win a flag.

[bornadog]

Brayshaw has retired due to concussion issues. Very sad to see and a big blow to their team.

I think a lot more will retire this way. At his peak was a very good footballer.

[hujsh]

That's a huge blow for Melbourne but the right decision for him to protect his long term health as much as possible

[ledge]

Gee if anything can go wrong it is going wrong at Melbourne. Sad for Brayshaw hoping it doesn’t affect him in the future.
If Oliver’s problems are nothing sinister, that’s two important players for them having issues Health wise .
And the Smith thing another layer on top of that, a world of pain at the moment.
Be a real interesting season coming up but I still think they are a good side.

[Grantysghost]

Did Picken and the club settle out of court or something? That has gone very quiet.

[GVGjr]

Concussion injuries are going to test this competition
Such a shame for a player right in his prime.

[jeemak]

Gee if anything can go wrong it is going wrong at Melbourne. Sad for Brayshaw hoping it doesn?t affect him in the future.
If Oliver?s problems are nothing sinister, that?s two important players for them having issues Health wise .
And the Smith thing another layer on top of that, a world of pain at the moment.
Be a real interesting season coming up but I still think they are a good side.

Everything's fine at Melbourne. Their captain, coach, CEO, everyone is saying it's all beer and skittles.

[jazzadogs]

Wonder if there were any texts between Joel and Angus...

Concussion is only going to become a bigger issue. From the way his family carried on last year, it feels like this decision (which would have been very hard to make) should have been made a couple of years ago.

[Happy Days]

Did Picken and the club settle out of court or something? That has gone very quiet.

I believe they’re looking to combine all the concussion claims into one class action. Think there’s some holdup in doing that with Picken’s case as his is largely pleaded against the club, whereas the others are pleaded more or less entirely against the AFL.

[angelopetraglia]

He has five years to run on his contract. What happens to that? Is it included in the salary cap if he has to retire due to medical reasons?

[hujsh]

He has five years to run on his contract. What happens to that? Is it included in the salary cap if he has to retire due to medical reasons?

I think it goes to Tim English

[jeemak]

If only Maynard put his open hands out to break his fall (which would have been an easier action to begin with) rather than balling up and caving Brayshaw's head.......

[ledge]

I think it goes to Tim English

More like Bailey Smith

[Grantysghost]

I believe they’re looking to combine all the concussion claims into one class action. Think there’s some holdup in doing that with Picken’s case as his is largely pleaded against the club, whereas the others are pleaded more or less entirely against the AFL.
Thanks HD.

[jeemak]

More from the skipper:

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/he-s-lied-to-me-gawn-opens-up-on-tumultuous-oliver-relationship-20240222-p5f70q.html

[josie]

Brayshaw has retired due to concussion issues. Very sad to see and a big blow to their team.

One of few Dees players I don?t mind. Hope he can lead a healthy life.

[Testekill]

Brayshaw seemed like a decent sort, bloody talented too. Sadly he had a pretty long history of concussions and if it wasn't Maynard then it would have probably been the next head knock.

[GVGjr]

Brayshaw seemed like a decent sort, bloody talented too. Sadly he had a pretty long history of concussions and if it wasn't Maynard then it would have probably been the next head knock.

It just underlines that players with some serious concussions are very vulnerable.

[bornadog]

It just underlines that players with some serious concussions are very vulnerable.

We have a couple in English and Scott

[GVGjr]

Melbourne apparently owe Brayshaw something like 3 Mill on his contract and will need to apply for dispensation to pay some or all of his contract outside of the salary cap.

[Testekill]

It just underlines that players with some serious concussions are very vulnerable.

It's never just one concussion that causes the damage, it's cumulative. One person that should be followed regarding information on concussions is Chris Nowinski, he's a former pro wrestler who had to retire from post concussion syndrome only three years into his career and is now one of the leading experts on CTE.

[SquirrelGrip]

Melbourne apparently owe Brayshaw something like 3 Mill on his contract and will need to apply for dispensation to pay some or all of his contract outside of the salary cap.

It’s an interesting one. What should a player be paid out if he is medically retired? And who should pay - club, AFL or insurer?

[Grantysghost]

It?s an interesting one. What should a player be paid out if he is medically retired? And who should pay - club, AFL or insurer?

I guess he was injured at work and is employed by the club not the AFL.
My guess is the club.
Insurance is an interesting one. I dare say that may be the future however not sure the insurer would take the risk?

Interesting read :https://anziif.com/professional-development/the-journal/volume-44/issue-3/sports-concussions-how-can-insurers-get-ahead-of-the-game

[jazzadogs]

If the club do have to pay out of their salary cap - does that affect what contract you are offering English?

[GVGjr]

If the club do have to pay out of their salary cap - does that affect what contract you are offering English?

It probably doesn't change much but perhaps a slightly shorter contract offer might be made.
The genuine interest by West Coast is what is driving up the contract value and the length of a deal.

[SquirrelGrip]

I guess he was injured at work and is employed by the club not the AFL.
My guess is the club.
Insurance is an interesting one. I dare say that may be the future however not sure the insurer would take the risk?

Interesting read :https://anziif.com/professional-development/the-journal/volume-44/issue-3/sports-concussions-how-can-insurers-get-ahead-of-the-game

Over time the AFL may need to self insure on this. I’m not aware of WorkSafe’s position on professional sports injuries.

[bornadog]

Over time the AFL may need to self insure on this. I?m not aware of WorkSafe?s position on professional sports injuries.

Does it come under Workcare Policy?

edit:

Found this article but no update on findings:

WorkSafe appoints concussion experts to investigate AFL

see here (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/worksafe-appoints-concussion-experts-to-investigate-afl-20201222-p56phy.html)

[ReLoad]

Does it come under Workcare Policy?

edit:

Found this article but no update on findings:

WorkSafe appoints concussion experts to investigate AFL

see here (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/worksafe-appoints-concussion-experts-to-investigate-afl-20201222-p56phy.html)

The interesting part is, Melbourne will be trying to get his contract now paid OUTSIDE the salary cap, this is fraught with so much danger, What if it is back loaded and melbourne got him for nothing early on?

Surely the payout has to stay 100% within the cap. Its no different to having a player who does 3 ACL's and career over too?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

They all had a bit of a bump at 3 quarter time?

It looked more like someone roofied our gatorade about 90 seconds before 3 Qtr time in the 21 GF.
I'll check with GG he'll have a vivid and descriptive recollection of how that that dumpster fire got lit.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Melbourne apparently owe Brayshaw something like 3 Mill on his contract and will need to apply for dispensation to pay some or all of his contract outside of the salary cap.

I hold zero love for Melbourne.. but unless it is somehow shown they knew of this impending decision, or even had a whiff it was a potential outcome and they restructured his contract to reflect them expecting to be able to a) remunerate Brasyhaw fairly, and b) be able to expunge the salary from their cap through medical circumstances, then it should not be an issue.

They're not suggesting that are they? Because if so, then screw them, pay Brayshaw and cop the full salary hit, plus lose say a 3rd round pick for being shit-asses

[bulldogsthru&thru]

It looked more like someone roofied our gatorade about 90 seconds before 3 Qtr time in the 21 GF.
I'll check with GG he'll have a vivid and descriptive recollection of how that that dumpster fire got lit.

GG was drinking the same gatorade on the night it now appears.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

GG was drinking the same gatorade on the night it now appears.

Look that was a difficult night for all, some more than others..... but we'll always have GG going rogue to nestle fondly in our memory

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Look that was a difficult night for all, some more than others..... but we'll always have GG going rogue to nestle fondly in our memory

Well if the gatorade also caused memory loss then I wish I had my hands on some. Maybe it did....maybe that's why we thought there was no point reviewing the game.....hmm this all adds up too well to not be correct.

[bornadog]

Well if the gatorade also caused memory loss then I wish I had my hands on some. Maybe it did....maybe that's why we thought there was no point reviewing the game.....hmm this all adds up too well to not be correct.

What game??? :D

[Mofra]

I guess he was injured at work and is employed by the club not the AFL.
My guess is the club.
Insurance is an interesting one. I dare say that may be the future however not sure the insurer would take the risk?

Interesting read :https://anziif.com/professional-development/the-journal/volume-44/issue-3/sports-concussions-how-can-insurers-get-ahead-of-the-game
Don't the AFLPA have a fund as well that contributes to this?

[Topdog]

Don't the AFLPA have a fund as well that contributes to this?

its for the players not the clubs though. Extra money to help with things like lost earnings and medical expenses I believe.

[Twodogs]

I guess he was injured at work and is employed by the club not the AFL.
My guess is the club.
Insurance is an interesting one. I dare say that may be the future however not sure the insurer would take the risk?

Interesting read :https://anziif.com/professional-development/the-journal/volume-44/issue-3/sports-concussions-how-can-insurers-get-ahead-of-the-game

Apparently AFL playing contracts are between player, the club and the League

https://www.google.com/search?q=are+afl+footballers+club+or+league+employees+in+aus tralia&sca_esv=ded9c88ad4b82f1e&sxsrf=ACQVn0-t3ocZLkhhIwr7T4K1DudueIbc6w%3A1708766992100&source=hp&ei=ELfZZf3HAtKv0-kPpvaZuAw&oq=&gs_lp=EhFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocCIAKgIIADIHECMY6gIYJzIHECMY6g IYJzIQEC4YxwEYrwEYjgUY6gIYJzIHECMY6gIYJzIHEC4Y6gIYJzIHECMY6g IYJzIHECMY6gIYJzIHECMY6gIYJzIHECMY6gIYJzIHECMY6gIYJzIHECMY6g IYJzIHECMY6gIYJzIHECMY6gIYJzIHECMY6gIYJzIHECMY6gIYJ0iGDlAAWA BwAXgAkAEAmAEAoAEAqgEAuAEByAEAmAIBoAI8qAIPmAM8kgcBMQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp

[Grantysghost]

Goody bag?

Yes I made a meme.

https://i.postimg.cc/G2mBTxFJ/Mematic-20240228-182351.jpg (https://postimg.cc/wtnxSJb7)

[Testekill]

Demons looked good against a Blues side that crumpled under the slightest bit of pressure but their forward woes have not been fixed.

[mjp]

Demons looked good against a Blues side that crumpled under the slightest bit of pressure but their forward woes have not been fixed.

Don't worry, they're playing us soon enough! That always seems to cure what ails them.

[Testekill]

I do want to say that it's absolutely cooked of the AFL to have Melbourne go into round one with a game already under their belt while we're going in after two weeks off. Opening Round is just an utter joke.

[hujsh]

I do want to say that it's absolutely cooked of the AFL to have Melbourne go into round one with a game already under their belt while we're going in after two weeks off. Opening Round is just an utter joke.

Cooked, crooked, cock up.

[jeemak]

I do want to say that it's absolutely cooked of the AFL to have Melbourne go into round one with a game already under their belt while we're going in after two weeks off. Opening Round is just an utter joke.

The AFEL would argue that Melbourne is at a disadvantage in being sent to play Sydney first up. I kind of get it, especially if Melbourne has a shit day and gets done easily.

Being reactive to the NRL going to Vegas and thinking it's an opportunity to highlight the game in the northern states is flawed to me though. The AFEL and NRL aren't really in competition and a one-off round in non-traditional geographies won't do a single thing to change the dynamic that exists between the two codes/ leagues.

Compromising the fixture to this extent has no upside, but the buffoons at head office aren't pragmatic enough to see it and it's the type of shit that keeps them fat and happy. What is really amazing is how willing the AFEL is to compromise the fixture further than it already is in order to be seen to be innovating.

[Uninformed]

The AFEL would argue that Melbourne is at a disadvantage in being sent to play Sydney first up. I kind of get it, especially if Melbourne has a shit day and gets done easily.

Being reactive to the NRL going to Vegas and thinking it's an opportunity to highlight the game in the northern states is flawed to me though. The AFEL and NRL aren't really in competition and a one-off round in non-traditional geographies won't do a single thing to change the dynamic that exists between the two codes/ leagues.

Compromising the fixture to this extent has no upside, but the buffoons at head office aren't pragmatic enough to see it and it's the type of shit that keeps them fat and happy. What is really amazing is how willing the AFEL is to compromise the fixture further than it already is in order to be seen to be innovating.

And what they pay themselves to do that is flat out theft from the players who actually do the work to earn the money.

[hujsh]

And what they pay themselves to do that is flat out theft from the players who actually do the work to earn the money.

Hell yeah brother

[bornadog]

Should Angus Brayshaw's contract still be included in the salary cap?

Personally I think it should be, but Melbourne is arguing otherwise.

[Axe Man]

Should Angus Brayshaw's contract still be included in the salary cap?

Personally I think it should be, but Melbourne is arguing otherwise.

Would you be happy if English signs a monster deal and is then forced out of the game with concussion and we cop the full whack to our salary cap?

I'm not sure what the right way to go is but there should be clearly established guidelines for concussion related retirements. Perhaps only a certain percentage should be included in the cap? Player welfare should be paramount so we don't want undue pressure on at risk players to continue playing due to the salary cap implications.

[bornadog]

Would you be happy if English signs a monster deal and is then forced out of the game with concussion and we cop the full whack to our salary cap?

I'm not sure what the right way to go is but there should be clearly established guidelines for concussion related retirements. Perhaps only a certain percentage should be included in the cap? Player welfare should be paramount so we don't want undue pressure on at risk players to continue playing due to the salary cap implications.

What about other injuries that may force early retirement?

[hujsh]

What about other injuries that may force early retirement?

I think concussion (not unfairly) deserves some special consideration given just how damaging it is on the quality of life of the athlete. Minimizing any incentive to make a player play with concussion related trauma generally seems a good idea to me.

[comrade]

Would you be happy if English signs a monster deal and is then forced out of the game with concussion and we cop the full whack to our salary cap?

I'm not sure what the right way to go is but there should be clearly established guidelines for concussion related retirements. Perhaps only a certain percentage should be included in the cap? Player welfare should be paramount so we don't want undue pressure on at risk players to continue playing due to the salary cap implications.

They signed him to a large deal knowing his injury history, just like we?d be doing with English. It?s the risk a club takes offering long term deals.

[Axe Man]

What about other injuries that may force early retirement?

I agree with hujsh that concussion deserves it's own set of rules. I know that it is generally repeated concussions that are the issue but I imagine these things are difficult to predict and any player could be one bad concussion away from retirement.

With physical injuries it's extremely rare that a one off injury would force retirement. It is generally things like multiple ACLs or repeated soft tissue injuries that force players out and those guys aren't usually on long deals as their potential retirement is much more foreseeable. The clubs do need to bear some responsibility if they are offering these extra long term deals. Perhaps we need a US model where a certain amount of the contract is guaranteed.

[GVGjr]

Should Angus Brayshaw's contract still be included in the salary cap?

Personally I think it should be, but Melbourne is arguing otherwise.

Both sides of the argument have some merit but I'd favour a 50/50 split just for early retirements due to concussion.

[Go_Dogs]

Both sides of the argument have some merit but I'd favour a 50/50 split just for early retirements due to concussion.

Seems like a reasonable way forward. The NBA have some “waive and stretch” provisions too, which allow a contract to be paid over additional years which could be another option. Less helpful for longer term deals perhaps.

[Happy Days]

I reckon that we should probably keep our powder dry on whether big money contracts paid out to retired players should have to count against the cap personally.

[Bulldog Joe]

What about other injuries that may force early retirement?

I think there should be some relief available, but it should be based on a percentage situation where maybe a 40 or 50% cap relief.

However that should also have some impact on other aspects such as total football spend. The respective clubs also need to find the money themselves for any outside the cap.

[hujsh]

Yeah no issue with a split for me

[GVGjr]

With what we have learned about concussion and how it might impact careers I'd hate to see any club hampered by a good intention contract. I mean if a club signs a dud player for 5 years at big bucks then so be it but if you sign someone and concussion stops their career I'm more open to something like a 50/50 split

[G-Mo77]

Didn't we get the Boyd contract off the books once he retired?

[bornadog]

Didn't we get the Boyd contract off the books once he retired?

Tom Boyd paid back money to club, due to some up front payments. That is the sort if person he is.

[Axe Man]

Didn't we get the Boyd contract off the books once he retired?

Boyd walked away and didn't ask for what he was still owed so there wasn't anything to take off the books was my understanding.

[Axe Man]

Tom Boyd paid back money to club, due to some up front payments. That is the sort if person he is.

I have never heard that he repaid money, just that he walked away from what was remaining.

[bornadog]

Boyd walked away and didn't ask for what he was still owed so there wasn't anything to take off the books was my understanding.

article -

Western Bulldogs reveal premiership hero gave up $2 MILLION when he retired (https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/western-bulldogs-confirm-tom-boyd-handed-back-2m-honour-flag-hero-with-life-membership/news-story/4351b9cbb6ccfad5564354273fbb8c1a)

On a night where the Western Bulldogs honoured Tom Boyd with life membership, the club revealed the 2016 premiership hero handed back $2 million when he walked away from the game earlier this year.

[SquirrelGrip]

I believe when a career is ended for medical reasons that the player's contract should be paid out and not included within the salary cap, but don't believe concussion deserves special consideration. The player with 4 ACLs deserves the same right to the payout.

But what happens if after a couple of years, the player recovers and returns to play?

[Testekill]

I hadn't heard about Boyd giving any money back to the club either, I thought he had just told them to tear up his contract and that he wasn't interested in the contract getting paid out.



edit: I do believe that if a player's contract ends due to injuries then it shouldn't be completely within the salary cap if it can actually be proven that it was the injuries that caused it. A player getting too old and slow to keep on going due to soft tissue injuries is something that happens, traumatic brain injuries or completely shredding a knee is a pretty sudden stop to a career.

No problem with Brayshaw's contract being paid out with half of it being within the salary cap, not so much if we ended up signing a player to a long term contract and we ended up regretting it a year in.

[Hotdog60]

With the likes of retiring early because of concussion the club could pay out to the players super so it will benefit them when they may need down the track.

[Axe Man]

article -

Western Bulldogs reveal premiership hero gave up $2 MILLION when he retired (https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/western-bulldogs-confirm-tom-boyd-handed-back-2m-honour-flag-hero-with-life-membership/news-story/4351b9cbb6ccfad5564354273fbb8c1a)

On a night where the Western Bulldogs honoured Tom Boyd with life membership, the club revealed the 2016 premiership hero handed back $2 million when he walked away from the game earlier this year.

See that article doesn't actually clarify things to me. When they say handed back do they mean he literally paid them back or he figuratively handed back money by walking away from the remaining money due? I reckon it's the second, I don't even think Tom would be generous enough to both pay back money and walk away from the rest of his contract.

[jazzadogs]

I think any payout should come out of the salary cap.

Clubs and players are getting ridiculous with long contracts.

Why did Brayshaw, who was wearing a helmet because of known concussion issues, given such a long contract? If he had been given a 6 year deal and got his first ever concussion in the first season, that's unlucky. This is just poor risk management (and yes, I feel the same about English).

[Sedat]

Half should come out of Collingwood's cap in lieu of the human cannonball Maynard - might make players think twice in the future before lining up a free hit against a completely helpless opponent.

Maybe the bunch of flowers Maynard bought for Brayshaw can come out of Melbourne's cap as a contra tax deduction.

[bornadog]

See that article doesn't actually clarify things to me. When they say handed back do they mean he literally paid them back or he figuratively handed back money by walking away from the remaining money due? I reckon it's the second, I don't even think Tom would be generous enough to both pay back money and walk away from the rest of his contract.

?I actually gave back money?: Former AFL star Tom Boyd on losing his love of playing

[G-Mo77]

From what I remember there was pushback from outside clubs to make it count under the Salary Cap. Don't put much merit into that as my memory is slightly better than a goldfish.

[MrMahatma]

It was advice from a medical panel, or it was a firm instruction from a medical panel, that he should retire. Wasn't it?

So if someone retired cause of 4 knees recos, would that be a "choice" more than something they were forced to do by a panel of AFL doctors?

This article is confusing: https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/melbourne-demons/afl-news-2024-premiership-melbourne-player-angus-brayshaw-announces-retirement-due-to-concussion-brayden-maynard/news-story/f32f0727190a69df053a4b60bd2158ea (https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/melbourne-demons/afl-news-2024-premiership-melbourne-player-angus-brayshaw-announces-retirement-due-to-concussion-brayden-maynard/news-story/f32f0727190a69df053a4b60bd2158ea)

but I respect the verdict of the medical professionals, and the importance of putting my health before my career,” Brayshaw said in a statement on Thursday.

Then...
“The AFL supports the decision by Angus Brayshaw to retire from the game today,” Kane said on Thursday.

[josie]

I think concussion (not unfairly) deserves some special consideration given just how damaging it is on the quality of life of the athlete. Minimizing any incentive to make a player play with concussion related trauma generally seems a good idea to me.

👍🏼 good thinking

[bornadog]

I think concussion (not unfairly) deserves some special consideration given just how damaging it is on the quality of life of the athlete. Minimizing any incentive to make a player play with concussion related trauma generally seems a good idea to me.

Isn't the risk with the Club signing the player on these long term deals. Why should the club get an advantage over other clubs.

[hujsh]

Isn't the risk with the Club signing the player on these long term deals. Why should the club get an advantage over other clubs.

Well this is a precendent all clubs will follow. So no single club will have an advantage

[Grantysghost]

My guess is it will be partially exempt from the cap. Don't agree with it.
Brayshaw should sue them for their lack of sanction for Maynard.
They basically rubber stamped his forced retirement.

[Bulldog Joe]

With the likes of retiring early because of concussion the club could pay out to the players super so it will benefit them when they may need down the track.

Unable to do that as it would probably exceed the super limits.

[Testekill]

A Melbourne Football Club doctor has sensationally *admitted to conducting ?off the books? illicit drug tests ? *allegedly authorised by the AFL ? to help players evade *detection on match days.


The doctor-turned-whistleblower says players who confessed to having taken drugs in the days before AFL games were given secret tests to ensure their systems were clear or were advised to ?fake an injury? so they would not risk being tested and suspended for breaches of the World Anti-Doping Agency code.


Federal MP Andrew Wilkie told parliament on Tuesday night he had received a signed statement from former Demons head doctor Zeeshan Arain in which he accuses the AFL of facilitating the clandestine drug tests at Dorevitch Pathology in Heidelberg.


Mr Wilkie called on Prime Minister Anthony Albanese to intervene in the scandal.


In a stunning address, Mr Wilkie said: ?I rise to bring the house?s attention deeply troubling allegations of egregious misconduct within the AFL provided by former Melbourne football club president Glen Bartlett, former Melbourne football club doctor ZeeshanArain and Shaun Smith, father of Melbourne player and now alleged drug trafficker Joel Smith.


?The allegations include the prevalence of drug abuse and other prohibited behaviour across the AFL, off the books drug-testingof players at Dorevitch Pathology in Heidelberg, facilitated by the former chief medical officer of the AFL Peter Harcourt, the resting of players testing positive in these secret tests, ostensibly on account of injury, wilful inaction by AFL chairman Richard Goyder, and former CEO Gill McLachlan ?.


?Here is what happened as has been described to me: The AFL wants the player to play at all costs and so the cover up begins.


?If there are no illegal drugs in the player?s system they are free to play and if there are drugs in their system the player is often asked to fake an injury.


?They are advised to lie about a condition, while the results of the off-the-book tests are kept secret and are never shared with Sports Integrity Australia or WADA.


?In other words, hundreds of thousands of Australians will watch the game not knowing that the game has been secretly manipulated by the AFL and thousands of Australians will bet on that game not knowing the game has been secretly manipulated by the AFL.


?So next time you hear a player has a hamstring injury, you could be forgiven for wondering what is really going on.


?But as Dr Arain explains this isn?t just a Melbourne problem, it is an AFL problem with multiple players coming to Melbourne from other teams with pre-existing cocaine dependencies more than suggesting that drug testing workarounds are commonplace elsewhere in the AFL.


?The documents in my possession also indicate a shocking unwillingness of senior AFL executives to address drug abuse by players and executives, particularly in relation to cocaine use.


?For instance here are very detailed notes of a telephone meeting between Gill McLachlan, Richard Goyder and Glen Bartlett.?


The AFL has a longstanding contract with Dorevitch Pathology to conduct testing for its controversial out-of-competition illicit drugs code.
Match day drug tests are conducted by SIA officers under the world anti-doping code.
The stunning claims are likely to draw the interest of WADA chiefs, SIA and the Albanese Government, which has responsibilities under the global anti-doping code.
Mr Wilkie said the allegations were deeply troubling and called on Prime Minister Anthony Albanese to review the signed statements and ?personally intervene in this matter?.
?It is not an exaggeration to say the off-the-books testing scheme I?ve described sees the AFL effectively involved in a multi-hundred million dollar fraud on governments and taxpayers.
?Aussie Rules football is far too important to our nation. I call for intervention at the highest level and ask the PrimeMinister to personally intervene in this matter ? because right now Deputy Speaker the term white line fever has taken on a different and sinister meaning at the AFL.?
Joel Smith failed an anti-doping drugs test last August after traces of cocaine were detected in his system from a urine sample taken by SIA testers on match-day.
He has since been accused by SIA of cocaine trafficking and faces a lifetime ban from sport.
In Shaun Smith?s statement, detailed by Mr Wilkie, he said: ?If I had known of a massive drug problem in the AFL when my son was 14 I would have said you?re playing baseball, you?re playing something else.
?Something is not right when you get so many broken players.?
Cocaine is considered to be a performance-enhancing substance if detected on game day.
Dr Arain was sacked by the Demons in October 2020 after eight years as head doctor ? just days after raising serious concerns about the club?s culture with chief executive Gary Pert.
Lawyers for Dr Arain hit the club with an unlawful dismissal claim, which led to a significant settlement. Dr Harcourt, an AFL life member who became embroiled in the Essendon drugs scandal, stepped down as the league?s chief medical officer in October 2021.
The AFL and Melbourne are being contacted for comment.
The government Tuesday night blocked attempts by Mr Wilkie to formally table the signed statements to parliament.
- Michael Warner

[bulldogtragic]

**** me sideways.

Essendon like sanctions should be coming.

[jazzadogs]

Am I surprised? No.

Do I think anything will come of it? No.

Do I think the AFL cares about cocaine use? No.

Do I think the AFL cares about the optics of this article? Oh hell yeh.

[jazzadogs]

**** me sideways.

Essendon like sanctions should be coming.

For the AFL organisation? First line says that the tests are AFL sanctioned.

[MrMahatma]

2021 flag even more tainted. What did those players take at half time?!!

[bulldogtragic]

2021 flag even more tainted. What did those players take at half time?!!

Strip them of the 2021 GF. I don’t remember who they played, but they should get they flag now.

[bulldogtragic]

For the AFL organisation? First line says that the tests are AFL sanctioned.

For all.

[bornadog]

For the AFL organisation? First line says that the tests are AFL sanctioned.

AFL is a disgrace of an organisation who make things up as they go along

[Grantysghost]

21 flag has always been pretend.

[jeemak]

Cocaine's sick, lay off it.

Max Gawn said there's no drug problem or culture at Melbourne because they don't get positive hair test results. Everything's OK.

[Dry Rot]

A Melbourne Football Club doctor has sensationally *admitted to conducting ?off the books? illicit drug tests ? *allegedly authorised by the AFL ? to help players evade *detection on match days.


The doctor-turned-whistleblower says players who confessed to having taken drugs in the days before AFL games were given secret tests to ensure their systems were clear or were advised to ?fake an injury? so they would not risk being tested and suspended for breaches of the World Anti-Doping Agency code.


Federal MP Andrew Wilkie told parliament on Tuesday night he had received a signed statement from former Demons head doctor Zeeshan Arain in which he accuses the AFL of facilitating the clandestine drug tests at Dorevitch Pathology in Heidelberg.






Wow! Source and link please.

[Grantysghost]

https://archive.is/Vx44u

If that's true, wow waaaaaay bigger than Dons.

Seriously wtf.

Bevo two time premiership coach!

[Rocket Science]

In absolute awe at the governing body's unmatched knack for challenging the average fan to continue to give a f**k.

[Dry Rot]

https://archive.is/Vx44u

If that's true, wow waaaaaay bigger than Dons.

Seriously wtf.

Bevo two time premiership coach!

Thanks for the link. The Melbourne connection is no great surprise to me, I find it far more interesting the allegations about the AFL itself and senior management.

I'm sure were all very amused about the Melbourne connection. However, I caution you to be careful about what you wish for.

These allegations suggest that the problem is across the AFL, and who knows if our players will get caught up in this.

[josie]

https://archive.is/Vx44u

If that's true, wow waaaaaay bigger than Dons.

Seriously wtf.

Bevo two time premiership coach!

Agree.

If true how will AFL hide it/brush under carpet or who will be sole AFL fall guy who never said anything about it to anyone else in AFL?

[josie]

Agree.

If true how will AFL hide it/brush under carpet or who will be sole AFL fall guy who never said anything about it to anyone else in AFL?

Just read longer/full article. Looks like it goes all the way to the top of AFL.

Thanks to Testekill for posting article. I stay away from TV news but presume it?s been/will be talked about there and presumably on fox & other footy shows/podcasts/radio.

[Vred]

?But as Dr Arain explains this isn?t just a Melbourne problem, it is an AFL problem with multiple players coming to Melbourne from other teams with pre-existing cocaine dependencies more than suggesting that drug testing workarounds are commonplace elsewhere in the AFL.



I hope we haven't traded someone to Melbourne in the last couple of years..

Uh... oh..

God damn it.

[Go_Dogs]

Interesting it referenced players being traded into Melbourne with existing cocaine dependencies.

Massive news if true - also makes it even more odd players actually get caught, like why didn’t Smith do a secret test and fake an injury?

[Vred]

Interesting it referenced players being traded into Melbourne with existing cocaine dependencies.

Massive news if true - also makes it even more odd players actually get caught, like why didn’t Smith do a secret test and fake an injury?

Smith got leaked, on camera, by bystanders. He couldn?t hide it.

I can say with 250% confidence that we got rid of Lachie Hunter for this very reason. Don?t be surprised if we are dragged into this shit storm.

[angelopetraglia]

I have read this article twice. I'm still shaking my head. Unbelivable. Massive cover up. We need anwsers.

[Grantysghost]

Agree.

If true how will AFL hide it/brush under carpet or who will be sole AFL fall guy who never said anything about it to anyone else in AFL?
Their strategy to combat will be interesting.

Deny deny deny i'd say will be the first lever, or disgruntled parties are making the claims (which may well be right).
ABC etc haven't run with it to this point.

[Testekill]

It's probably endemic around the league but the Demons have also clearly been having problems with illicit substances. They're not Eagles mid 2000's but there has been a rot since the start of the decade that has been allowed to grow because they have been performing.

[EasternWest]

I think we should hold our fire on any outrageous comments. We're likely to get hit by tennis balls if we don't.

[bornadog]

I think we should hold our fire on any outrageous comments. We're likely to get hit by tennis balls if we don't.

We would be na?ve to think players don't take illicit drugs, but surely our club is not involved in any testing of players off the books, before games and then declaring them injured - I would hope not?

[Grantysghost]

I think we should hold our fire on any outrageous comments. We're likely to get hit by tennis balls if we don't.

That's a pro move.

[angelopetraglia]

AFL will say their system is working. It is all about player welfare. Player health comes first. Everything else is secondary. We have sought advice from medical experts. This is what they have advised we do. We need to listen medical experts and put player welfare first.

[Topdog]

I hope we haven't traded someone to Melbourne in the last couple of years..

Uh... oh..

God damn it.

This doctor got sacked in 2020 so he isnt referencing Hunter here even though we all believe it would also apply to that trade.

Dr Arain was sacked by the Demons in October 2020 after eight years as head doctor ? just days after raising serious concerns about the club?s culture with chief executive Gary Pert.

[Rocco Jones]

We definitely haven't had anyone on the books into cocaine in the last 10 years or so.

[EasternWest]

We would be na?ve to think players don't take illicit drugs, but surely our club is not involved in any testing of players off the books, before games and then declaring them injured - I would hope not?

I would hope not too, but I have my doubts.

[Hotdog60]

Melbourne will get a massive fine and a slap on the wrist and the AFL will cover the fine through the back door.

[bornadog]

link (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2024/03/26/swans-ceo-tom-harley-comments-on-shocking-afl-wide-allegations-of-secret/)


SEN Chief Reporter Sam Edmund has spoken to the AFL regarding the allegations, saying they're well aware that this happens:

?I?ve spoken to the AFL this morning, the league don?t deny this happens and in fact they admit that it does happen, but they say that it sits well within their medical model,? Edmund told SEN Breakfast.


?If they have a player who has a problem with illicit drugs, they have the ability to test them and make sure they don?t use them on match days and hold them out of play.


?Now, unless they have permission from the player to do otherwise, the league cites medical privacy and that no one would want it known that they might have an illicit drugs problem.


?They argue the idea that the club can say a player is out for two weeks with cocaine use is absolutely fanciful.


?The off the books claim, as raised in parliament, the league will today state that every test is off the books for Sports Integrity Australia and by extension WADA, except for matchday.


?Why? Because those two bodies don?t give a rats about illicit drug use any time outside of the day before a game through to the end of the event.


?It?s worth pointing out again that this is a volunteer policy that the players have agreed to in the first place. One no other code or Olympian volunteers to.?

Further Sam summarises:

AFL says this IS its medical model.

- It is "off the books" for SIA because SIA aren't interested in illicit drugs out of competition.
- It is a volunteer policy that no other code or Olympian adheres to.
- They make no apologies from stopping players taking the field with a drug in their system that threatens their health and could return a long SIA ban.
- Secrecy necessary under doctor/patient privilege.
- Talking a handful of players target tested and not hundreds.

BUT, its clandestine nature (faking injuries) does attract criticism. As is the fact that it's a criminal act at the end of the day.
Certainly a complex space.

[bornadog]

Total disgrace that the AFL doesn't care under their so called drug policy, because in effect, clubs are allowed to hide a positive test

[hujsh]

I mean, why bother at this point? Just say you don't test for recreational drugs anymore and only care if a player has substances in their system gameday that could be performance enhancing or a masking agent. I don't get tested for coke at my workplace, should Hugh McCluggage be any different (outside of gameday)?

[EasternWest]

I mean, why bother at this point? Just say you don't test for recreational drugs anymore and only care if a player has substances in their system gameday that could be performance enhancing or a masking agent. I don't get tested for coke at my workplace, should Hugh McCluggage be any different (outside of gameday)?

Agreed.

[Grantysghost]

I mean, why bother at this point? Just say you don't test for recreational drugs anymore and only care if a player has substances in their system gameday that could be performance enhancing or a masking agent. I don't get tested for coke at my workplace, should Hugh McCluggage be any different (outside of gameday)?

I do, well i am able to tested, but i'd say coke would make me more productive.
Same playing footy.

That's a good response from the AFL. They might have killed it dead.

They did the, oh yeah we do that and it's part of our process. So, too bad so sad.

[hujsh]

I do, well i am able to tested, but i'd say coke would make me more productive.
Same playing footy.

That's a good response from the AFL. They might have killed it dead.

They did the, oh yeah we do that and it's part of our process. So, too bad so sad.

I don't know what your job is but there are jobs where drug testing may be necessary (truck driver for example, even though by my understanding they'd break the tests), I'm not sure AFL footballer at training during the week is one of those jobs though.

The AFL response might take some steam out of the outrage but if you think about it for a couple of seconds doesn't it seem a completely ridiculous 'process'? Like you guys are the ones who put the illicit drug policy in place, why are you also doing these convoluted steps to circumvent it? Just change the policy.

[Sedat]

I think it's ridiculous to strip Melbourne of their 2021 premiership when they only extracted approximately 38 minutes of artificial benefit from their illicit drug use on the day, so I'd be happy enough to stop the clock and declare the premiership final score at 9.5.59 to 5.10.40. Bont as the clear BOG at that time also gets the Norm.

Also looking forward to seeing Shaq, Roarke and Hannan get a retrospective ticker tape parade down Barkly St in due course as the obvious premiership heroes that they are.

[angelopetraglia]

There are lots of jobs that require regular drug testing. It is common across distrubtion centre and manufacutring environments for instance. You need to be zero acohol and also not have any other illicit substances in your stystem.

[hujsh]

There are lots of jobs that require regular drug testing. It is common across distrubtion centre and manufacutring environments for instance. You need to be zero acohol and also not have any other illicit substances in your stystem.

Yes, jobs where you can be a danger to others or yourself is one thing. An AFL player outside of gameday? For all their money and fame, they're just dudes.

[jeemak]

The conflation of sports integrity with being a role model. They're just dudes, sure, but the industry and society doesn't view them that way.

[hujsh]

The conflation of sports integrity with being a role model. They're just dudes, sure, but the industry and society doesn't view them that way.

You can still expect and enforce discretion. That's basically the model we have now. You won't get pinged for doing drugs but if it's filmed and passed around? That's when you get some punishment.

[Axe Man]

You can still expect and enforce discretion. That's basically the model we have now. You won't get pinged for doing drugs but if it's filmed and passed around? That's when you get some punishment.

It's a little inconsistent - someone films you over a toilet cubicle or in the privacy of your own home out of season and you can cop 2 weeks. Test positive on a non-game day in season - no issue.

[Before I Die]

The policy is clearly one of cover up, rather than welfare. It appears its primary aim is to avoid players testing positive on game day. Sure, it avoids any unfair advantage, but what does it do for player health?
This is not a good look and the AFL should slap themselves with a Bringing the Game into Disrepute ban and fine.
Arguing medical confidentiality is rubbish. I bet there were high fives all round when someone thought that loop hole up.