What COULD hold us back (2024 edition).

[mjp]

If you could choose only ONE thing that you think could compromise our 2024 season, what would it be?

Off the top of my head:

- Lack of clarity around key defensive rolls (yes, Jones, but who is next? And "what" is JOD?)
- Lack of defensive group balance - we have runners and we have talls but do we have any actual defenders?
- Too many inside mids who are unable to play 'other' positions (Liber, Macrae, Treloar etc).
- Lack of forward cohesion - particularly between Jamarra and Naughton.
- Talented juniors with unclear roles/undefined positions who probably need to play (Darcy, Jones, Bedendo, Gallagher...)...but WHERE? They all seem to be in positions where the incumbents are strong.
- The questions swirling around coaching (aka Bevo) and the pressure the club will be placed under if there are some early losses could be extreme.

I'm sure there are others!

[ReLoad]

Its all about the coaching. There will be a lot of scrutiny on it, and round 1(2 for melbourne) shapes as a huge game for us, Melbourne as shambolic as they are will be hunting us, they will come out harder than we've ever seen them before, as they know what it will do to us.

We fumble that game, we're in trouble, and all the cracks will open wide and all of the points you raise will come out/gain attention.

[Sedat]

We are still a little thinner for talent at the bottom 6/bench players in our best 24 than other teams.

[Grantysghost]

We are still a little thinner for talent at the bottom 6/bench players in our best 24 than other teams.

Thinner you say?

[Countrydog5]

For mine it would be a game plan that is not clear, simple and easy to follow. We have the talent in the group, and I think if we have a strong plan the players can adhere to we'll perform well. As Reload mentioned above, it's all about the coaching for us i'd say

[Grantysghost]

I'm one or two. It's the defense that has me the most worried. I'll choose option 1 as that's the brief.

We have some great rebounding defenders, who don't seem to rebound anymore (think we were last in 23?). Dale and Richards need to get the balance sorted between defending and attacking. Where does Caleb fit now? Defence seems to be not on the cards.

Our talls - I'm not sold down there at all. Jones is good yes, but OLD and do we really think he can play another season like 2023. That was a point to prove year, so I am loathe to think he can play to that standard again. Having said that, he will certainly give himself the best opportunity with the way he prepares.
Keath - cooked in 22.
Gardner - like, but limited and has peaked. He's a second tall at a pinch and is really just that. IF he can be consistently good at his one wood and then adequate at other parts like distribution then he will be useful. However I'm not relying on him to make our defence better.
JOD - awesome but kid, and is he a KPD, an intercept, a half back so many questions re his best use case. I don't think he's a KPD. I see him more as intercept.
Buss - no idea, good prospect.

Lock down small? We just don't have anyone really. Richards I guess ? Duryea is shot.

Edit: I forgot Coffield. Will be good if he stays fit, I really don't know a lot about him.

[Happy Days]

In addition to the stuff already said re our bottom 6, we have a late-2000s era backline that has at least 3 excellent ball users in it but no intercept threats to let them put speed on the ball (not to mention taking some air out of an opposition when they inevitably get a run on against us). And arguments about his height notwithstanding, I’ve got no confidence that adding Coffield does anything to address it.

[hujsh]

All the above can be made worse or better depending on buy in. How many of our genuinely good players will be happy to play a role in the team to the best of their ability if it makes the team better but their statistical output worse? Can Macrae/Treloar focus less on the ball and getting it 30 times a game and focus more on stopping the ball from exiting a stoppage if Libba doesn't win it? Who's our Trent Cochin?

[Bulldog4life]

I like the fact that a tough bastard when playing is now line coach of our backs.

[bornadog]

Last year we lost 5 or 6 games by around a goal.

For 2024, the ability to keep fighting and run out a game comfortably is my concern. We need to learn off the Pies - never give up till the The individual of perfectly adequate proportions sings

[Jumping Jones]

Only reason we would not make top 6 is injuries to our back 6. Too many players primed for big seasons IMO

[Axe Man]

Last year we lost 5 or 6 games by around a goal.

For 2024, the ability to keep fighting and run out a game comfortably is my concern. We need to learn off the Pies - never give up till the fat lady sings.

Now, now BAD, you can't say that anymore. The individual of perfectly adequate proportions thanks. ;)

[bornadog]

Now, now BAD, you can't say that anymore. The individual of perfectly adequate proportions thanks. ;)

good pick up :D

changed

[CM Punk]

Coaching and our defence, which go hand in hand

[MrMahatma]

If English's concussion lingers and we don't see the best of him this season.

[Mofra]

Playing 'Gods and clods' again (to borrow a Southpark term)

We have 'Gods' who are as good as any top 8-10 players in the competition, however they are so good our 'clods' seem to regress.
If we're 5 points down with 2 minutes to go, half the playing group are hoping Bont or Libba pull a miracle out of their hat.
If you look at Collingwood - experts at winning the close ones - all 18 players on the ground seem to think "it could be me".

Until we get a more even spread of contribution (even if that means Bpont/Libba/Treloar get a few minutes less in the centre every game) I'm not sure we can really lift ourselves into contention.

[josie]

If English's concussion lingers and we don't see the best of him this season.

Really good point. It?s a concern for his long term wellbeing and also likely whether we make finals or not.

[Dazza]

Backline and accuracy

[SonofScray]

The two that come to mind for me would be:

A knock on the head to English.

- momentum and prospect really hinge on his game gathering momentum and going in a linear fashion. His physical side of the game wanes as the knocks mount up. Hoping he maintains a strong appetite.

A disorganised, dispirited, distracted senior coach.

- all said and done. Hoping the changes get the best out of him this year and we see a bloke enjoying the job, in front of a team playing with a clear purpose.

[Uninformed]

Now, now BAD, you can't say that anymore. The individual of perfectly adequate proportions thanks. ;)

And don't dare mention weight!

[Uninformed]

I think it gets back to cohesion or good old fashioned teamwork.

If the talent in this team can gel together and replicate the chemistry of 2016, nothing will stop us.

As Bevo said after 2016 when asked what the secret of that chemistry was, he said 'like every coach, I wish I knew. If you could bottle it you would never lose.'

We have a more talented midfield and, even if Tim went down, I think Lobb and Darcy would do as well as Boyd and Roughead.

Our backline is fine. I give you Fletch and Hamling! Our foward line is way better.

All that is missing is that elusive spirit of 2016. (Barring injuries to Bont and Libba of course!)

[GVGjr]

There are a number of potential challenges for us for us and could unravel the season for us.

The most pressing one from my perspective is our exposure to an extended absence with Tim English battling some concussion challenges because going into the season with Lobb having to play as mainly a sole ruck for an extended period unsettles the team balance. Sure we want him to play a bit more in the ruck and help Tim manage his workload but we also need for him to kick 30+ goals for the season as well.

[Uninformed]

There are a number of potential challenges for us for us and could unravel the season for us.

The most pressing one from my perspective is our exposure to an extended absence with Tim English battling some concussion challenges because going into the season with Lobb having to play as mainly a sole ruck for an extended period unsettles the team balance. Sure we want him to play a bit more in the ruck and help Tim manage his workload but we also need for him to kick 30+ goals for the season as well.

Do you think we could manage with Lobb in Tim's role and Darcy in Lobb's. You would have to get 20 goals out of Darcy I would think and Lobb can ruck extended periods with his tank.

[GVGjr]

Do you think we could manage with Lobb in Tim's role and Darcy in Lobb's. You would have to get 20 goals out of Darcy I would think and Lobb can ruck extended periods with his tank.

For a short term it's more than a fair position to be in but if it's for an extended period that has to be risky.
From my perspective Darcy shouldn't be the 2nd ruck just yet but clearly he will need to fill that role on occasions this year.
I also don't think Lobb can be a full time ruck man for the majority of the season and be effective at that.

[Go_Dogs]

What could hold us back?

Inability to run out games / retain control / stop a run on. I don?t know exactly which category that fits in, but to me we have enough talent on paper, we?ve made coaching changes, it?s whether that intangible belief and willingness to play roles + long game for the betterment of the team is there. If it is, we should be able to address what I?m concerned about because it?s either in the head directly or as a result of it.

[EasternWest]

If Bont hurts his back from having to carry our entire side yet again.

[FrediKanoute]

1) Attitude - are they up for it this year and are they prepared o push through!

2) Selection Integrity - no team, not matter how cohesive tolerates a lack of selection integrity. Spots in the team have to be earned through form and performance.

[D Mitchell]

I think it gets back to cohesion or good old fashioned teamwork.

If the talent in this team can gel together and replicate the chemistry of 2016, nothing will stop us.

As Bevo said after 2016 when asked what the secret of that chemistry was, he said 'like every coach, I wish I knew. If you could bottle it you would never lose.'

We have a more talented midfield and, even if Tim went down, I think Lobb and Darcy would do as well as Boyd and Roughead.

Our backline is fine. I give you Fletch and Hamling! Our foward line is way better.

All that is missing is that elusive spirit of 2016. (Barring injuries to Bont and Libba of course!)

I agree with the thrust of your post but let me be picky about 3 parts. The first 2 bolded bits, team chemistry and ruck situation, ignores the impact of the 3rd man up rule ban, the impact of Bont going over the top can't be over estimated. The 3rd bolded bit, the forward line, can't agree, it's over rated. I'd give your ;) left testicle for a Clay Smith, a Tory Dickson, a Josh Dunkley, especially a Jake Stringer.

[Jasper]

With our playing list we are over represented by small or mid sized forward who aren't productive enough in getting the football are being effective in other positions. One of Clarke, Bedendo, O'Neil, West and Arthur Jones really need to step forward and make an impact.

[D Mitchell]

With our playing list we are over represented by small or mid sized forward who aren't productive enough in getting the football are being effective in other positions. One of Clarke, Bedendo, O'Neil, West and Arthur Jones really need to step forward and make an impact.

It's our tall forwards who aren't productive enough. We've sacrificed small-mediums who kick accurately, create scoring opportunities out of nothing, chase, tackle, apply pressure and bring a bit of the unexpected to the fray, like Smith, Dickson, Dunkley, Stringer in favour of under performing talls like Lobb, Ugle-Hagan, even Naughton and the trend looks likely to continue with the Darcy and Croft recruitments, hopefully destined for defence but unlikely with O'Donnell around. West has been disappointing and Jones too fragile.

[Mantis]

It's our tall forwards who aren't productive enough. We've sacrificed small-mediums who kick accurately, create scoring opportunities out of nothing, chase, tackle, apply pressure and bring a bit of the unexpected to the fray, like Smith, Dickson, Dunkley, Stringer in favour of under performing talls like Lobb, Ugle-Hagan, even Naughton and the trend looks likely to continue with the Darcy and Croft recruitments, hopefully destined for defence but unlikely with O'Donnell around. West has been disappointing and Jones too fragile.

Like where do you even start with this?

Seems like you are willing to die on the hill with your views, and whilst I don't have time to pick it apart to the length it probably deserves, so I'll just tackle one point - if you think JUH was underperforming last year then you & I are poles apart in the expectations of a young KF... he is on target to be a 50 goal a season forward this year (and every other season for the next 10) which is a nice position to be in.

[D Mitchell]

Like where do you even start with this?

Seems like you are willing to die on the hill with your views, and whilst I don't have time to pick it apart to the length it probably deserves, so I'll just tackle one point - if you think JUH was underperforming last year then you & I are poles apart in the expectations of a young KF... he is on target to be a 50 goal a season forward this year (and every other season for the next 10) which is a nice position to be in.

Bolded bit. We've been hearing that for 3 years, now, still averaging a touch above a goal a game and he's only one of them. When the Club invests so much in 3 talls yet they average fewer than 5 goals a game (4.68 in 2023) and we finish just in or just out of the 8, that's underperforming. My view on the tall forwards is based upon what I observe at games and statistics.

[Grantysghost]

Bolded bit. We've been hearing that for 3 years, now, still averaging a touch above a goal a game and he's only one of them. When the Club invests so much in 3 talls yet they average fewer than 5 goals a game (4.68 in 2023) and we finish just in or just out of the 8, that's underperforming. My view on the tall forwards is based upon what I observe at games and statistics.
Marra ? That’s a tad unfair he’s only been on the list since 2021 (drafted 2020) and had a hugely interrupted junior program due to covid.

[EasternWest]

Yeah Marra's a jet. He's the least of our concerns.

[GVGjr]

Bolded bit. We've been hearing that for 3 years, now, still averaging a touch above a goal a game and he's only one of them. When the Club invests so much in 3 talls yet they average fewer than 5 goals a game (4.68 in 2023) and we finish just in or just out of the 8, that's underperforming. My view on the tall forwards is based upon what I observe at games and statistics.

Marra didn't have a normal lead up to his draft year and and played minimal football and Darcy had a similar challenge. Marra also got off to a slow start because he wasn't seen as fit enough. What's happened over the last 2 years though as he nears 50 senior games of experience has been very promising. Kicking 5 goals in a couple of games and 4 in another last year are real signs of his potential. He's also been impressive over this preseason so I'm very optimistic of his future. He's far from the finished product and nowhere near his best so his best football is clearly in front of him. The stats and even some of the vision might not be telling the real JUH story just yet.

[Sedat]

What could hold us back?

Inability to run out games / retain control / stop a run on.
It's simply not an option for this perpetual problem to continue rearing its ugly head for the 3rd consecutive season.

[hujsh]

Bolded bit. We've been hearing that for 3 years, now, still averaging a touch above a goal a game and he's only one of them. When the Club invests so much in 3 talls yet they average fewer than 5 goals a game (4.68 in 2023) and we finish just in or just out of the 8, that's underperforming. My view on the tall forwards is based upon what I observe at games and statistics.

I don't know where you were hearing that Marra, as a first year player, was set to have a 50 goal season but maybe that's more an issue with who you're hearing these things from.

Jarmarra has been steadily improving every year, clearly works hard, has tons of talent, has stood up in big moments of big games and his trajectory lines up with pretty much any key forward of the last couple of decades.

Let him cook

[D Mitchell]

Marra didn't have a normal lead up to his draft year and and played minimal football and Darcy had a similar challenge. Marra also got off to a slow start because he wasn't seen as fit enough. What's happened over the last 2 years though as he nears 50 senior games of experience has been very promising. Kicking 5 goals in a couple of games and 4 in another are real signs of his potential. He's also been impressive over this preseason so I'm very optimistic of his future. He's far from the finished product and nowhere near his best so his best football is clearly in front of him. The stats and even some of the vision might not be telling the real JUH story just yet.

The topic is what could hold us back. The 2023 forward set up and personnel held the team back in 2023. Unless there is change, it will continue to do that. Ugle-Hagan is but one of the constituents of the underperforming forward line. The 3 talls structure hasn't worked, Bont aside, the other half of the forward 6, a bit of a merry go round, don't or can't do enough to compensate. It's the team and wins that matter, not an individual's development.

[GVGjr]

The topic is what could hold us back. The 2023 forward set up and personnel held the team back in 2023. Unless there is change, it will continue to do that. Ugle-Hagan is but one of the constituents of the underperforming forward line. The 3 talls structure hasn't worked, Bont aside, the other half of the forward 6, a bit of a merry go round, don't or can't do enough to compensate. It's the team and wins that matter, not an individual's development.

I agree the forward line can be a challenge for us. Getting some players to start impacting games more is the key.

[lemmon]

I think external pressure is going to be huge. Bevo simply doesn't have the luxury of working his way into the season - I think he's the most under pressure coach in the league and if we aren't 3-3 at worst after six rounds, the media are going to be feral. It's really hard to shield a group from that and Beveridge looked worn down by the constant barrage at the back-end of 2023.

We feel like a group that needs a few good news stories to start shifting momentum.

[Grantysghost]

The topic is what could hold us back. The 2023 forward set up and personnel held the team back in 2023. Unless there is change, it will continue to do that. Ugle-Hagan is but one of the constituents of the underperforming forward line. The 3 talls structure hasn't worked, Bont aside, the other half of the forward 6, a bit of a merry go round, don't or can't do enough to compensate. It's the team and wins that matter, not an individual's development.

Interesting, I think it's been not too bad DM but respect your view.
Apart from shizen goal kicking! We've got a goal kicking coach right?

[bornadog]

Interesting, I think it's been not too bad DM but respect your view.
Apart from shizen goal kicking! We've got a goal kicking coach right?

He had 70 scoring shots in 2023 - a little bit of accuracy and he could get 50 goals. He isn't our problem overall, there are other areas to address.

[D Mitchell]

Interesting, I think it's been not too bad DM but respect your view.
Apart from shizen goal kicking! We've got a goal kicking coach right?

bolded Bit

It isn't necessarily goalkicking that's the problem. Surprised me, too but, unless I'm missing something or misreading, 2023 figures from AFL Tables show that 2 of the 3 talls kicked more goals than behinds (the 3rd equal) as did the team total

Lobb 24 goals 18 behinds
Naughton 44 goals 33 behinds
Ugle-Hagan 35 goals 35 behinds

Team 276 goals 215 behinds

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/teams/bullldogs/2023_gbg.html (https://afltables.com/afl/stats/teams/bullldogs/2023_gbg.html)

[hujsh]

bolded Bit

It isn't necessarily goalkicking that's the problem. Surprised me, too but, unless I'm missing something or misreading, 2023 figures from AFL Tables show that 2 of the 3 talls kicked more goals than behinds (the 3rd equal) as did the team total

Lobb 24 goals 18 behinds
Naughton 44 goals 33 behinds
Ugle-Hagan 35 goals 35 behinds

Team 276 goals 215 behinds

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/teams/bullldogs/2023_gbg.html (https://afltables.com/afl/stats/teams/bullldogs/2023_gbg.html)

More useful than that , in my opinion, is the Shots at Goal number from the AFL site




JUH

93 Shots

35 goals

37.6%



Naughton

88 shots

44 goals

50%



Lobb

48 shots

24 goals

50%






Weightman: is at 57.6% and Bont 50%
English one of our best with 16 goals at 76%

[Axe Man]

More useful than that , in my opinion, is the Shots at Goal number from the AFL site




JUH

93 Shots

35 goals

37.6%



Naughton

88 shots

44 goals

50%



Lobb

48 shots

24 goals

50%






Weightman: is at 57.6% and Bont 50%
English one of our best with 16 goals at 76%

I'm glad someone has listened to me, I've been banging on about looking at shots at goal rather than simply scoring shots for years!

[Grantysghost]

When it falls short and into your team mates lap : it's a pass.

[Axe Man]

When it falls short and into your team mates lap : it's a pass.

What you are saying is that Marra just needs his teammates to mark more of his shanks and then his stats won't look so bad? ;)

[Grantysghost]

What you are saying is that Marra just needs his teammates to mark more of his shanks and then his stats won't look so bad? ;)

How dare you!

Also, yes.

[mjp]

When it falls short and into your team mates lap : it's a pass.

It's actually a score assist.

[Mantis]

The topic is what could hold us back. The 2023 forward set up and personnel held the team back in 2023. Unless there is change, it will continue to do that. Ugle-Hagan is but one of the constituents of the underperforming forward line. The 3 talls structure hasn't worked, Bont aside, the other half of the forward 6, a bit of a merry go round, don't or can't do enough to compensate. It's the team and wins that matter, not an individual's development.

I personally think the forward set up is more of an issue than the performance of the talls.

Our continued want/ need to find a spot for an extra mid and have them roll up from HF creates more issues than wins.. we need to get to a point where the likes of Libba & Macrae don't play in the forward 6 as they don't impact the scoreboard or defend when the opposition have the ball. Our mids (except Bont) play in the midfield or rest on the bench and if they all can't fit in, well only the best survives.

[whythelongface]

The main things holding us back are:

1. Not taking advantage of forward 50 entries. Whether this is delivery or structure or more likely a combination of both if we can address this then we will most games.
2. Stopping the opposition getting a run of goals. Another Achilles heel for us and an issue we haven?t been able to address. If we can find the ability to lock the ball in when things aren?t going our way it will negate our opponents ability to hit the scoreboard

[Olddog]

I?m loathe to suggest this but an injury to Bont would be a disaster

[Grantysghost]

I?m loathe to suggest this but an injury to Bont would be a disaster

Can we cancel this account G? ;)

[Uninformed]

I agree with the thrust of your post but let me be picky about 3 parts. The first 2 bolded bits, team chemistry and ruck situation, ignores the impact of the 3rd man up rule ban, the impact of Bont going over the top can't be over estimated. The 3rd bolded bit, the forward line, can't agree, it's over rated. I'd give your ;) left testicle for a Clay Smith, a Tory Dickson, a Josh Dunkley, especially a Jake Stringer.

That is very generous of you!;) But I would only want Clay and Tory to replace VDM and West and would expect a Picko to run through there a bit as well. Especially for that price!

But I see your point. It could be an argument for effectiveness is a greater influence than talent.

I hadn't considered the third man up factor, but perhaps we would be able to get similar drive from a superior midfield, especially with Tim in the ruck.

Why I am so enthusiastic about our forward line, though, is because it it the first time in living memory that we have two star KPFs in Marra and Naughts. But I see from your other posts that you don't rate them as I do and the stats you quoted for them are pretty underwhelming.

Be interesting to see, but maybe having good talls is not the missing link I have thought it to be. My bet though is that Marra, Naughts and Cody will all have 50 plus goals this year and Lobb will not be too far behind.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I personally think the forward set up is more of an issue than the performance of the talls.

Our continued want/ need to find a spot for an extra mid and have them roll up from HF creates more issues than wins.. we need to get to a point where the likes of Libba & Macrae don't play in the forward 6 as they don't impact the scoreboard or defend when the opposition have the ball. Our mids (except Bont) play in the midfield or rest on the bench and if they all can't fit in, well only the best survives.

Bringing Sanders and Harmes into the midfield plus Macrae should allow both Bont and Treloar to spend more time forward. Moving Caleb Daniel to play as a small forward with his footy smarts should also be considered.
There has been an over reliance on our tall forwards including Naughton Lobb and Ugle Hagen to kick goals.

[PR0408]

Bringing Sanders and Harmes into the midfield plus Macrae should allow both Bont and Treloar to spend more time forward. Moving Caleb Daniel to play as a small forward with his footy smarts should also be considered.
There has been an over reliance on our tall forwards including Naughton Lobb and Ugle Hagen to kick goals.

CD isn?t the answer in the fwd line. We need elite pressure to help lock the ball in or at least cause a turnover. I think a mixture of 2&3 talks at times with 3/4 small mediums. Weightman,West,VDW, Clarke, Scott & Arty. Other than Cody all need to step up and put their mark on the position to make it their own. For me none of these 5 are a lock and practice games will play a big part.
I?d also hope we reward good for in vfl if someone in afl not performing.

McNeil is another that could grab a spot.

[D Mitchell]

That is very generous of you!;) But I would only....My bet though is that Marra, Naughts and Cody will all have 50 plus goals this year and Lobb will not be too far behind.

Apols, U, I'll remember next time to offer the right. I hope you win your bet but only of it is accompanied by the ball staying forward of centre longer and fewer goals scored at the other end.

[Uninformed]

Apols, U, I'll remember next time to offer the right. I hope you win your bet but only of it is accompanied by the ball staying forward of centre longer and fewer goals scored at the other end.

I live in hope.

I am intrigued at your argument that we have invested too heavily in talls.

While we have suffered a lack of quality talls almost forever two of the three most potent sides I have watched have built around a powerful spine. The Hawthorn glory days of Dunstall, Brereton, Mew and Langford and the Mathew's Brisbane side with Lynch/Bradshaw, Brown, Leppitsch and Mal Michael. So I have always thought that is what we lacked.

But considering the third dominant side, Clarksons 3peat teams, they only really had Roughead and Lake as big KPPs. And then with all the rule changes that change the way we play, do you think we would be better off with less very-talls and more of the athletic, Jeremy Howe, Sicily, Bedendo types?

[mjp]

I am intrigued at your argument that we have invested too heavily in talls.


We do have a lot of talls.

Naughton, Jones, Jamarra, English and Lobb are all going to play.

Then you need another key back.
And you haven't selected Darcy or Croft (unless Darcy is the key back you selected to the line above).

Others on the list include JOD, Gardner, Keath etc...there's a LOT of talls.

It's a lot. "Investment" implies there will be a payoff 'down the line'...maybe there will. But it's hard to see them all fitting in right now.

[DadBod]

Holding us back:

1. Goal kicking - The games we lost last year by small margins, a little more accuracy would make a difference.

2. A genuine game plan to shut down oppo runs - We can't go this year with 5 or 6 goal runs against us.

3. Injury - I love to look of some of the younger players but we lack a little in the Ruck, Mid and outside run.

4. Game plan - we have a great and mobile fwd line, but we need to move the ball better / faster.

5. FWD line continuity - They need to work together better. Shepherd for each other, run those dummies, engage the interceptors etc.

[josie]

Holding us back:

1. Goal kicking - The games we lost last year by small margins, a little more accuracy would make a difference.

2. A genuine game plan to shut down oppo runs - We can't go this year with 5 or 6 goal runs against us.

3. Injury - I love to look of some of the younger players but we lack a little in the Ruck, Mid and outside run.

4. Game plan - we have a great and mobile fwd line, but we need to move the ball better / faster.

5. FWD line continuity - They need to work together better. Shepherd for each other, run those dummies, engage the interceptors etc.

Agree with you Dadbod.

I'd add a bit of mongrel/tenacity. We saw when Libba went down in Hawks game just how much we rely too heavily on him for that bulldog spirit.

[Uninformed]

We do have a lot of talls.

Naughton, Jones, Jamarra, English and Lobb are all going to play.

Then you need another key back.
And you haven't selected Darcy or Croft (unless Darcy is the key back you selected to the line above).

Others on the list include JOD, Gardner, Keath etc...there's a LOT of talls.

It's a lot. "Investment" implies there will be a payoff 'down the line'...maybe there will. But it's hard to see them all fitting in right now.

Using our riches a classic spine could be Naughton, Jamarra, Jones Darcy. JOD could be your speedy interceptor and Lobb relief ruck.

But if that is too top heavy for todays game you could go Jamarra and Darcy forward with Darcy relief ruck. Jones Naughton back and the rest a bunch of athletic athletic marking mediums and speedy smalls. Would you be vulnerable with that? Or would it give an edge over going tall?

[jeemak]

Continuity in either our first defensive line up or our second string cobbled together lineup across all of the smalls, mediums and talls is what I worry about most.

No doubt we need to get more players around the ball more often to de-risk a Libba in the Hawthorn game at Tassie situation, but that should be an easy enough fix if players commit to getting in the best condition they can and put the work in - with the coaches actually rotating them (and by in the best condition I mean Libba condition. He is fit as **** and it's an overlooked attribute of his game).

Looking back on 2023 we played our best footy when Jones was fit, and we had some stability in the support cast of running or creative defenders. As soon as that came apart with a few injuries, particularly to Jones, JJ and Richards, with inconsistent form and fitness for Gardner and Keath things just stopped being functional.

It meant we couldn't move the ball, and our forward entries were shallow and narrow, stodgy and unclean deep, or to the opposition interceptors. You could see how it was going to unfold, a turnover, quick movement, and a disorganised and low quality defence hung out to dry.

I wouldn't really know a thing about game plans and maximising the talent we have with strategy and set ups.....blah blah blah. Ditto with what's happening with coaching. But, I do know that if you're already thin in an area talentwise, and that area gets hammered with injury and continuity suffers, then you're probably up against it.

If the defence functions well, gets clean ball and uses it quickly and efficiently, then we're more likely to score or at least hold the footy in deep forward. If we can do the latter then our defence is protected, and can do more of the former.

[D Mitchell]

...
I am intrigued at your argument that we have invested too heavily in talls.

..... do you think we would be better off with less very-talls and more of the athletic, Jeremy Howe, Sicily, Bedendo types?

Invested: Naughton looked good from the start as a defender. I imagine it was his marking prowess but he was then shifted to the forward line, then Ugle-Hagan was recruited, Bev starts relieving English of 'round the ground duties and sending him forward. Then in comes Lobb; Darcy and O'Donnell spend their first few games forward. It will be interesting where Croft will be played. I interpret that as a deliberate policy of playing a talls dominated forward structure.

Better off with fewer very-talls: My gripe is that the 3 main targets in the forward line don't score enough and reduce overall defensive capacity. Far be it for me to criticise a game plan devised by a premiership coach and his 24/7 football cohort so I hesitate to say that the tactic of 3 talls is wrong, it may be that the Club has identified that structure as the way for the future. It's not so much the centimetres as the way they play. I'd like to see a Sicily, Tory Dickson, Clay Smith, Liam Picken type in the mix.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Great convo. I don't have anything to add, but it's great reading.

[Bullies]

Using our riches a classic spine could be Naughton, Jamarra, Jones Darcy. JOD could be your speedy interceptor and Lobb relief ruck.

But if that is too top heavy for todays game you could go Jamarra and Darcy forward with Darcy relief ruck. Jones Naughton back and the rest a bunch of athletic athletic marking mediums and speedy smalls. Would you be vulnerable with that? Or would it give an edge over going tall? I would like to see Busslinger as our intercept defender which is a role he played so well in prior to being drafted. I think JOD sooner than later will play wing. So hard to match up on with his height and speed and wouldn't surprise to see him become the "go to" player out of defence.

[Uninformed]

I would like to see Busslinger as our intercept defender which is a role he played so well in prior to being drafted. I think JOD sooner than later will play wing. So hard to match up on with his height and speed and wouldn't surprise to see him become the "go to" player out of defence.

He is a great kick.

Buss. the kick out to JOD advantage. No one will out mark him. Dale takes the handpass. JOD runs with him and either one of them capable of spearing it into Marra who has a good five metres clear on a perfectly timed lead. Maybe in range. If not, who is that short-arse on Darcy.

With Johno's impeccable method, certain goal.

[DadBod]

Josie, that's an excellent point. I look at young Sanders and he can certainly play that roll, just not yet and I think West can be an extractor as well. It's part of the reason I think we need to get Macrae back in the centre and we should've kept McLean.

[josie]

Josie, that's an excellent point. I look at young Sanders and he can certainly play that roll, just not yet and I think West can be an extractor as well. It's part of the reason I think we need to get Macrae back in the centre and we should've kept McLean.

Yep we?re almost in 100% agreement there too, except I think Toby had lost a lot of agility and pace. He was one of my faves however I think even he would agree it was time after being cruelled by injuries. At least he was in GF winning side (and was magnificent in that PF against Plastics) as some solace for him and his fans.

Apart from Libba and possibly Bailey Smith & Bont, I think we miss players like Clay Smith and Picken who flew the flag, even Cordy too. I?m hoping some of the younger brigade like Sanders can provide a harder edge.

[Pleather Sole]

I?m loathe to suggest this but an injury to Bont would be a disaster

Thats what we thought when Murphy went down. It was truly awful and I absolutely don't want Bont injured. Our team's reliance on him is stifling. Other players having to step up out of his shadow via another method would be great, Coaches have to find a way to address and instill that, its a big shift in team dynamic. So, sharing and exceeding the workload along with a sound structure, more realistic gameplans that give reward for effort will be a lift. Also, plan B's and C's.

[ShibbyUp]

Agree with you Dadbod.

I'd add a bit of mongrel/tenacity. We saw when Libba went down in Hawks game just how much we rely too heavily on him for that bulldog spirit.

This is why I'm keen to see what Harmes can do. I know he's not highly rated but if there's something he can bring, it's mongrel and a bit of defensive effort. Will be good to see if he can be go in to CB when momentum is against the Dogs and shut down the opposition run out of the front of the square.

[AshMac]

I thought at off-season we needed 3 things. A key defender, effective small forward and a good midfielder. To me, we only addressed one of those needs.

I think our backline will let us down this year.

Other issues I see are similar to those in OP?s opener - but fitness was a key last year and all the hype suggests it?ll be a factor again this year.

[DadBod]

This is why I'm keen to see what Harmes can do. I know he's not highly rated but if there's something he can bring, it's mongrel and a bit of defensive effort. Will be good to see if he can be go in to CB when momentum is against the Dogs and shut down the opposition run out of the front of the square.

It's a fair point with Harmes too. Forgot about him but he adds some two way running and as you said, definite mongrel.

[GVGjr]

This is why I'm keen to see what Harmes can do. I know he's not highly rated but if there's something he can bring, it's mongrel and a bit of defensive effort. Will be good to see if he can be go in to CB when momentum is against the Dogs and shut down the opposition run out of the front of the square.

I'm a bit interested in both how we are going to use him and if he will be given some defensive assignments.
It appears we quickly acknowledged that players who can do some defensive jobs was a bit of a gap in the list and traded for Harmes and quickly brought in Bramble when the window opened.

[Olddog]

Things that could hold us back in 2024

1. Lack of pace in the midfield which too often sees the opposition mids streaming down the ground with our mids in their wake after a turnover - hoping Sanders and Harmes can help to lessen this problem.

2. Lack of a true crumbing forward deep in our forward structure - love Cody W but he prefers to sit on peoples heads (including
those of his teammates) and when he does stay down is just an average crumbed.

3. Not being one of the fittest teams coming into round 1. The debate rages as to best plan around fitness - be super fit to start the season and risk fade out late or come into season a little under done and hopefully come home strong. My observations of recent seasons is that we have trended toward the latter but for me early wins are gold in the bank. There are certainly cases of teams winning flags who have not been at full fitness starting the season but just about all those teams have had the class and skill to win early games and stay in or about the top 8 before powering home - I don’t think we are one of those teams so for me we should aim to be in the top few sides for early season fitness and being able to cover ground for 4 x 30 mins of footy.

[SquirrelGrip]

Things that could hold us back in 2024

1. Lack of pace in the midfield which too often sees the opposition mids streaming down the ground with our mids in their wake after a turnover - hoping Sanders and Harmes can help to lessen this problem.

Don't think Sanders is the answer for pace in the midfield. He is more likely to be still running in the last quarter as the others slow down, but don't expect him to burn others with pace. The answer to stop opposition mids streaming down the ground is for our mids to have a more defensive mindset. Harmes will have that. Will be interesting if the new assistant coaches can improve us in this area.


2. Lack of a true crumbing forward deep in our forward structure - love Cody W but he prefers to sit on peoples heads (including
those of his teammates) and when he does stay down is just an average crumbed.

Charlie Clarke is our hope here. I'm expecting Arty to have a slow start to the season following his injury recovery over summer. Last year he was the "one to watch" coming into Round 1. Clarke I think has that tag this year.


3. Not being one of the fittest teams coming into round 1. The debate rages as to best plan around fitness - be super fit to start the season and risk fade out late or come into season a little under done and hopefully come home strong. My observations of recent seasons is that we have trended toward the latter but for me early wins are gold in the bank. There are certainly cases of teams winning flags who have not been at full fitness starting the season but just about all those teams have had the class and skill to win early games and stay in or about the top 8 before powering home - I don’t think we are one of those teams so for me we should aim to be in the top few sides for early season fitness and being able to cover ground for 4 x 30 mins of footy.

New fitness boss, new approach. You're right OD, fitness is critical. Bevo openly said Round 1 will be the fittest team in his tenure. Let's hope he's right.

[GVGjr]

Things that could hold us back in 2024

1. Lack of pace in the midfield which too often sees the opposition mids streaming down the ground with our mids in their wake after a turnover - hoping Sanders and Harmes can help to lessen this problem.

2. Lack of a true crumbing forward deep in our forward structure - love Cody W but he prefers to sit on peoples heads (including
those of his teammates) and when he does stay down is just an average crumbed.

3. Not being one of the fittest teams coming into round 1. The debate rages as to best plan around fitness - be super fit to start the season and risk fade out late or come into season a little under done and hopefully come home strong. My observations of recent seasons is that we have trended toward the latter but for me early wins are gold in the bank. There are certainly cases of teams winning flags who have not been at full fitness starting the season but just about all those teams have had the class and skill to win early games and stay in or about the top 8 before powering home - I don?t think we are one of those teams so for me we should aim to be in the top few sides for early season fitness and being able to cover ground for 4 x 30 mins of footy.

I'm not too concerned about the pace of the midfield but I agree Sanders and Harmes will add a bit there although they're not speedsters. The run has to come from hard work and having additional depth in our rotations.

The crumbing forward role might fall to Charlie Clarke who's had a terrific preseason and fits that role requirement other than that I assume we will also be relying on West and Vandermeer to support Weightman. I could see Sanders spending some time there as well.

If our fitness levels can be gauged on some increased running drills and having vastly less players rotating through the rehab group then we have to be a long way ahead of where we were 12 months back.

I agree we have some gaps but perhaps they're not as pronounced as they were last year.

[mjp]

1289

I like the 'suffocate' terminology.

[Sam]

Our coaching ie Bevo trying to do too much and not working with the other coaches

[bornadog]

Our coaching ie Bevo trying to do too much and not working with the other coaches

why do you think that?

[Sam]

why do you think that?
Just things I have heard re Bevo and his my way approach and the turn over of assistance as a consequence.

[mjp]

Just things I have heard re Bevo and his my way approach and the turn over of assistance as a consequence.

Has there really been that much turnover?

There was a bit post 2021 GF but the group has been pretty stable really...Smith departure the end of 2023 didn't seem like either Bevo's idea OR Smith's idea.

I think a lot has been made of not much here...I mean, the Hansen departure was a blow but who else are we talking about??

[bornadog]

Has there really been that much turnover?

There was a bit post 2021 GF but the group has been pretty stable really...Smith departure the end of 2023 didn't seem like either Bevo's idea OR Smith's idea.

I think a lot has been made of not much here...I mean, the Hansen departure was a blow but who else are we talking about??

Either way we needed to make some changes, and I think they are all positive.

[Sam]

We have had quite a few leave, I know they blamed Covid for a lot of them.
You could also say some were poached but why would they all leave if it was such a good environment to be in.
We threw everything at Leppitsch and he stayed at Collingwood, why couldn’t we keep our coaches after all they won a flag together
and then Bevo threw them all into different rolls, why?
I won’t go into the Dalrymple debacle.
finally if you read between the lines on the review findings released by the club it sounds like they are saying Bevo needs to change without saying it.
we have too much young talent on this list to balls it up and I don’t want history to repeat itself and
it is a long history I might add.

[mjp]

We have had quite a few leave, I know they blamed Covid for a lot of them.
You could also say some were poached but why would they all leave if it was such a good environment to be in.

I guess this is what I'm asking. Who (WHOM) are you specifically talking about??


We threw everything at Leppitsch and he stayed at Collingwood, why couldn’t we keep our coaches after all they won a flag together and then Bevo threw them all into different rolls, why?

1/. Wasn't Leppitsch simply using our offer to get 'more' from his current club?
2/. WHY would he leave Collingwood for anything other than a senior coaching role?
3/. WHY are we convinced that recruiting him is a good idea?


I won’t go into the Dalrymple debacle.

Happy to discuss it - he wasn't a coach (well, I guess he was back in the Northern Knights days!) but pretty sure Bevo had very little to do with his move to Sydney...just as Longmire had little to do with his move to the Saints.

[Mofra]

1289

I like the 'suffocate' terminology.
That sounds like the NBA equivalent of Richmond's small forward pressure during their 2017-2020 run.

They let more 'talented' smaller forwards walk (Sam Lloyd) in favour of guys who were more defence first, forward second and it worked.

(Ignoring the 6-6-6 rule put a stop to teams replicating that e.g. Hardwick going 4-6-8 whenever Grigg chopped out in the ruck)

[GVGjr]

1289

I like the 'suffocate' terminology.

I've got a good mate who's been preaching something close to this for years. I've just sent him that and he will be pleased.