Are you in Camp "IN", Camp "OUT" or Camp "PROVE IT"

[mjp]

It's been an off-season of change.

We had a review, there is a new footy structure off the field and new assistant coaches, new S+C head with a revised approach, full-time at the Whitten Oval rather than flip-flopping between home and Braybrook...not to mention reports of an emphasis on speed of ball movement and team based defending from those attending training.

My question is simple:

- Are you IN? This means you are convinced the changes are all for the better and we are Top 4 bound.
- Are you OUT? This means you still think the 'big problem' remains (the coach) and there will most likely be a performance based coaching change either during this season itself or at the end of the 2024 season. Finals? LOL!
- Are you in 'Team Prove It'. You have been burnt before (specifically in 2022 and 2023) and whilst you are hopeful, you just can't get truly on board the train until you see proof of the changes on the field.

[Rocco Jones]

Very much camp prove it but I'm agnostic.

[soupman]

I'm sceptical, but I'm in. What's the point of it all if you aren't prepared to go along for the ride?

[bornadog]

I am always IN - the supreme optimist :)

Some great off field changes, new facilities, no excuses.

[Happy Days]

I’ve talked myself into far worse Bulldogs teams being in. I’ll never be out.

[Mantis]

I'm camp prove it... As much talent as we've ever had access to, but we've been ''smelly'' the last 2 seasons and I want to see performances to match the talent before I start spruiking us as a top 4 team.

[hujsh]

I like the changes in concept but it all means nothing until we see it translate to something on-field. We've had good vibes and talk of top 4 plenty in recent history so I'm not sold.

[Sedat]

It's been an off-season of change.

We had a review, there is a new footy structure off the field and new assistant coaches, new S+C head with a revised approach, full-time at the Whitten Oval rather than flip-flopping between home and Braybrook...not to mention reports of an emphasis on speed of ball movement and team based defending from those attending training.

My question is simple:

- Are you IN? This means you are convinced the changes are all for the better and we are Top 4 bound.
- Are you OUT? This means you still think the 'big problem' remains (the coach) and there will most likely be a performance based coaching change either during this season itself or at the end of the 2024 season. Finals? LOL!
- Are you in 'Team Prove It'. You have been burnt before (specifically in 2022 and 2023) and whilst you are hopeful, you just can't get truly on board the train until you see proof of the changes on the field.
I'm in the IN camp with a bullet. We should be expecting silverware this year and contending for it for the next 3-5 years minimum.

If it all goes belly-up this year, at least we died on our feet this season instead of living on our knees like we have done the past 2 years.

There is no guarantee for success of course, but we must show absolute single-minded intent in our pursuit of it - I don't think the entire organisation from the president down to the boot-studder showed that unrelenting intent to get better after the self-destruction in the last 40 minutes of 2021 (when we were honestly on the cusp of football greatness - that lost premiership would have been the stuff of folklore after all the obstacles put in our path during that finals series). Credit to everyone involved, we have been extremely proactive in striving for excellence this off-season. As I said at the time, the deep shame of that West Coast loss left the club with nowhere to hide, and the call has been heeded.

Pendlebury just won a flag at 36yo. We have Bont for another 8-9 years at the same level - IMO we simply have to cash in, and no reason why it shouldn't start with 2024.

[chef]

I dont trust this group so im in the prove it camp.

[mighty_west]

I'm in, i believe what has happened with the review and changes is what had to happen to take the next step, things clearly weren't right with what was happening, Bevo is obviously a very good coach but just needed to be stripped back a bit with responsibilities and mindset freshened up, it kind of reminds me a bit of what was going on with Geelong mid 2000's with Bomber and a lot of supporters were frustrated with him and the direction they were heading before a big review of their club, the rest has been history, now i'm not saying we'll win 3 Premierships (although it would ne nice) but with all in place now with a clear view and mindset, fresh faces (Bubba, we all love ya but time was probably right for change) i reckon things will head north for us, as a team we finally have a real structure in place with a real spine and real key position players not having to punch above their weight or height, still development left with certain players and things just have to click into place, the seeds have been planted.

[Grantysghost]

I'm reluctantly in the out camp, with the proviso that I think we've made some really good moves in the off season.
My concern, which hasn't changed for a long time, is that our defence just doesn't cut the mustard.

[EasternWest]

we've been ''smelly'' the last 2 seasons.

I've not seen a more appropriate description of these last two years than this.

[lemmon]

Prove it.

There's a positive feeling around pre-season, but there was last year too. We faced some adversity in 2023, but again, so does every club. We also had the best player in the game running through the middle, an All Australian ruck and our side looked great on paper for most of the season.

Time for this group and this coach to put up or shut up.

[bornadog]

I'm reluctantly in the out camp, with the proviso that I think we've made some really good moves in the off season.
My concern, which hasn't changed for a long time, is that our defence just doesn't cut the mustard.

The one area I am worried about

[54Bulldog16]

I get hooked every year. I?m all IN!
I think there is enough improvement naturally in the forwards to make us 2 goals better. Midfield is better than serviceable, with more focus on quick movement and bursting forward to aid the forwards. I think Pratt will work wonders with team defence, not just the back 6. Should save us 2 goals a game, I know that?s really quite a generalist statement. I?m coming into the season confident!

[ShibbyUp]

It's been an off-season of change.

We had a review, there is a new footy structure off the field and new assistant coaches, new S+C head with a revised approach, full-time at the Whitten Oval rather than flip-flopping between home and Braybrook...not to mention reports of an emphasis on speed of ball movement and team based defending from those attending training.

My question is simple:

- Are you IN? This means you are convinced the changes are all for the better and we are Top 4 bound.
- Are you OUT? This means you still think the 'big problem' remains (the coach) and there will most likely be a performance based coaching change either during this season itself or at the end of the 2024 season. Finals? LOL!
- Are you in 'Team Prove It'. You have been burnt before (specifically in 2022 and 2023) and whilst you are hopeful, you just can't get truly on board the train until you see proof of the changes on the field.

Everyone should be in the "Team Prove it" because;

1. Dogs supporters should always be skeptical/pessimistic about everything.
2. How would anyone know if the changes are going to work or not at this point in time?

[ledge]

I am camp in, my only concern is the same as a lot of posters . The run ons against us.
If the defence works we will be extremely hard to beat.
New coaches and reshuffle is very positive, reviews and adjustments should be done every year.
If we don’t look renewed/ refreshed with enthusiasm this year I can’t see Bevo seeing out his contract.
In saying that I am very confident we will come out fully loaded.

[Jeanette54]

I think we need to establish a criterion for judgement.

Is it a finals appearance, is it a finals win? Is it solely a premiership or is a Grand Final appearance a pass mark?

Or could it rest on the personal growth of players and coaching staff? And how would you measure that?

I have been "in" for more than sixty years, without questioning (well, except for the Royce Hart era), but I can't wait another sixty-two years for a premiership. After all, I used to think immortality is a long shot, but hey, someone's got to be first. I guess I now know it won't be me.

[Mofra]

I like to Prove it Prove it, I like to... Prove It!

If we can keep Liam and JOD on the paddocks as KPDs, and sort our wings out, we should be very competitive. Big IFs though.

[GVGjr]

I get why the Prove it camp will get a lot of votes but I just see many more positives than where we were 12 months back

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Prove it due to being burnt the last 2 seasons.

However we finally did address the burning issues this off-season so it's time to deliver on the field. The talent is there so the excuses are gone.

If it weren't for the last 2 seasons there'd be no other option than to be IN.

[Mantis]

I get why the Prove it camp will get a lot of votes but I just see many more positives than where we were 12 months back

Certainly lots of positives, but there's just as many questions/ unknowns about how we will play when the ball bounces to start the season, these include:

1/ Will JOD be able to hold up as no.2 KPD.
2/ Will JUH & Naughts improve their ability to convert.
3/ Will our midfield defend.
4/ Will our wingers become consistent performers?

[Uninformed]

I am so "in" that I can't see even the remotest possibility that we don't take home the silver this year, the first of many in the next few years!

We are a monty! (Isn't it a great time of year?)

On this I am in total accord with the players, coaches and fitness staff (and even some of the supporters.) They know what I know.

Dead set certainties, we are!

[mjp]

2. How would anyone know if the changes are going to work or not at this point in time?

Kids don't have to see Santa to know he exists.

Some people just believe cos they believe...maybe they trust Bont, ride with Jones, think Jamarra is the anointed one...it doesn't matter why but it's OK to believe!

[Rocket Science]

Nothing but bone-deep fatigue for hearing all the right noises while seldom following through.

Show us it hurts. Show us you've learned. Show us you mean it.

[josie]

I think we need to establish a criterion for judgement.

Is it a finals appearance, is it a finals win? Is it solely a premiership or is a Grand Final appearance a pass mark?

Or could it rest on the personal growth of players and coaching staff? And how would you measure that?

I have been "in" for more than sixty years, without questioning (well, except for the Royce Hart era), but I can't wait another sixty-two years for a premiership. After all, I used to think immortality is a long shot, but hey, someone's got to be first. I guess I now know it won't be me.


Agree with this. I?m a bit of a ditherer. If we lose 3 or 4 early games the doubt will set in for us fence sitters. I?m always invested though, even when we not expecting finals. Given the changes I?d think a lot of woofers expect to make top 6. When I?m optimistic I think we should make top 4 & at least make a preliminary.

[Twodogs]

Bryan Ferry always says it best.


https://youtu.be/VRH1XNslvWQ?si=rCMOLOI7pogCBJ3H

[Mavericks]

prove it camp but leaning towards in.

I believe our list is top 4 material. No way our coaching and fitness could be as bad as 23. Worse coaching I have seen and that includes Hart, Rhode and Macca. That being the case we still should have made finals. Helps having the best player on the league.

With a modern game plan, improved fitness, better match day coaching, end of game simulations and delvelopment of JOD and JUH, not including improvement in others everything points to a top 4 finish. What I do not know is which Bevo has turned up. Is it great Bevo, ok Bevo or basket case 2023 Bevo. If it is 1 or 2 we will finish top 4. If it is 2023 version we will not make finals.

[mjp]

I think we need to establish a criterion for judgement.


Didn't I do that in the OP?

IN = Top 4.
Out = Coach sacked either during season or at the conclusion.

I tried to make it as cut and dried as I could...I actually agree with your post in terms of what "I Believe" might mean but in terms of the poll it should be clear as clear can be.

[G-Mo77]

I'm reluctantly in the out camp, with the proviso that I think we've made some really good moves in the off season.
My concern, which hasn't changed for a long time, is that our defence just doesn't cut the mustard.

I'm out.

I actually think our Defence holds up OK. It seems I'm alone when I read these type of threads. :)

Anyways..........

My issue has been and still is the want and will to work which is mainly directed at our midfield and lesser extent forwards. The ball gets walked out of the middle unpressured time and time again, it moves out of the forward line way too easily also. When you watch the elite teams the work rate is incredible, the pressure is intense and their decision making in these pressure cookers are terrific. In my eyes these are 3 things we are absolutely terrible at. I just can't see our team flicking the switch and changing their attitude on the field. I honestly think our ladder position was very flattering last season, we were awful! There are quite a few teams below us who IMO are in much better positions than we are to improve just on natural progression alone and have been aggressive to try and get better. We had a review, moved some people around in the coaching box and offices and brought in some re-treads on the field. It really doesn't excite me or give me much confidence going into 2024. So yeah, I'm out quicker than Kramer was in the contest.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I'm out.

I actually think our Defence holds up OK. It seems I'm alone when I read these type of threads. :)

Anyways..........

My issue has been and still is the want and will to work which is mainly directed at our midfield and lesser extent forwards. The ball gets walked out of the middle unpressured time and time again, it moves out of the forward line way too easily also. When you watch the elite teams the work rate is incredible, the pressure is intense and their decision making in these pressure cookers are terrific. In my eyes these are 3 things we are absolutely terrible at. I just can't see our team flicking the switch and changing their attitude on the field. I honestly think our ladder position was very flattering last season, we were awful! There are quite a few teams below us who IMO are in much better positions than we are to improve just on natural progression alone and have been aggressive to try and get better. We had a review, moved some people around in the coaching box and offices and brought in some re-treads on the field. It really doesn't excite me or give me much confidence going into 2024. So yeah, I'm out quicker than Kramer was in the contest.

How quickly I forgot about the effort department. You're right this is our biggest drawback. I'm hoping Sanders can be a positive influence here. It's his mo. If some of the other guys can't get a kick up the bum in this area from seeing a rookie out work them then all hope is lost. Harmes could also be a positive in this sense.

I am curious to know how much fitness plays a part in the apparent laziness of our players. Here's hoping the new fitness team have worked some wonders.

[bornadog]

and brought in some re-treads on the field.

I am not sold on the re-treads as some are. I think Coffield who is still only 24 years old, and if injury free, may be the best of them as the season progresses, but haven't seen him yet. Bramble could barely get a game at Hawks and Harmes couldn't make the Dees team, playing less than half the games last year.

[Hot_Doggies]

I want to be all ?IN? , then I read posts about starting with McNeil , Poulter and co

[SonofScray]

A firm in.

/reserve the right to pile on immediately if things aren't exquisite.

[jeemak]

I'm in the prove it camp, but will take a reasonable level of optimism into the first half of the season and reassess.

With more continuity in defence and better conversion at the right times last year we're a better than average chance to finish fifth (one win, less than 5%). That's how tight or weak the battle for the second half of the eight was.

But that's the problem for mine. Who of JJ, Jones, JOD, Keath, Gardner and whoever else can be depended upon to help us build the continuity? A lot has to go right no matter how fit we might get, how well managed we might be.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Nice thread - no fence sitting, I like it.

This is the least I have been 'involved' in a footy pre-season during my 34 odd years of living. Work, two kids - things are a little different. That makes it hard to get a read on us, although I appreciate all the training reports.

I am in, because we have to be. There are no more excuses. We've made the changes. We recruited for the now (Jones, Lobb, Coffield, Harmes, Bramble) and have kept the core of the list together.

We need to demand more from the likes of Daniel and Dale. They are good players, they need to go to another level. We need to demand improvement from our second-fourth year players - it's time to contribute. We need to demand more from our coaching group, this is make or break.

We were embarrassing last year and still should have made finals.

Our backs have been put to the wall in the last 6 months, and you KNOW that's when this club responds. It always has.

[Topdog]

I'm genuinely surprised there are so many optimistic Bulldog supporters. Little bit jealous of you guys.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I'm genuinely surprised there are so many optimistic Bulldog supporters. Little bit jealous of you guys.

It's pre season! Let's revisit this thread come the mid season bye!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's pre season! Let's revisit this thread come the mid season bye!

Not even.

Round 1 ;)

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Not even.

Round 1 ;)

The match day thread of round 1 will be a cold shower if it all goes south (well, if 2023 form persists).

[Grantysghost]

The match day thread of round 1 will be a cold shower if it all goes south (well, if 2023 form persists).

Demons at the G we'd have to be outsiders.

[lemmon]

I'm genuinely surprised there are so many optimistic Bulldog supporters. Little bit jealous of you guys.

Me too. I just feel like there was so much hype and excitement around our pre-season last year that I'm incredibly wary of what this group will actually do on the field.

This is a side that got battered by Hawthorn and didn't show up against the Eagles six months ago and a lot of us wanted the head coach gone.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Demons at the G we'd have to be outsiders.

it's not really so much about the result as much as it's how we perform. I can stomach a loss of we're competitive and give a good effort. Although naturally round 1 can be taken with a grain of salt. You don’t know what you'll get.

[jeemak]

it's not really so much about the result as much as it's how we perform. I can stomach a loss of we're competitive and give a good effort. Although naturally round 1 can be taken with a grain of salt. You don’t know what you'll get.

You should know you'll at least get effort at the professional level.

[Bigdog]

At the moment I?m out.

My big issues the last 2 seasons have been:

- Lack of speed
- Lack of depth, I don?t think our bottom 6 has bridged the gap it needs to. We really need the draftees from the last couple of years to demand selection (Galagher, Clarke and Bendendo are the ones)
- Lack of cohesion forward

I think we could address the last item as the boys have actually played together for a period given lobb and JUH have been relatively new to our system.

I don?t think we have improved on the other two.

[lemmon]

Demons at the G we'd have to be outsiders.

Even considering their off-season? Tough one, but coming out and winning is a huge statement and exactly the kind of thing we need to rebuild faith. I think they've had just about the most tumultuous off-season of any club and we should be looking to pounce on that.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

You should know you'll at least get effort at the professional level.

Yes but good effort? No.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Even considering their off-season? Tough one, but coming out and winning is a huge statement and exactly the kind of thing we need to rebuild faith. I think they've had just about the most tumultuous off-season of any club and we should be looking to pounce on that.
This year's round 1 is weird. So the dees will play the week before but we won't. Is that an advantage or disadvantage to any team given its the opening round?

[jeemak]

Yes but good effort? No.

I get mentally and structurally it mightn't all come together, or processes might break down. But everyone should be busting a gut every week.

[soupman]

This year's round 1 is weird. So the dees will play the week before but we won't. Is that an advantage or disadvantage to any team given its the opening round?

I think it's a huge advantage to the opening round teams. First games are always weird and to have an extra week on your Round "1" and even round 2 opposition as they still work their way into the season is not a bad thing.

[hujsh]

I think it's a huge advantage to the opening round teams. First games are always weird and to have an extra week on your Round "1" and even round 2 opposition as they still work their way into the season is not a bad thing.

Competition integrity means there's no doping and the betting isn't impacted according to the AFL. That's about as far as their definition goes

[Topdog]

I think it's a huge advantage to the opening round teams. First games are always weird and to have an extra week on your Round "1" and even round 2 opposition as they still work their way into the season is not a bad thing.

Agree, massive advantage to have a game under your belt

[Go_Dogs]

Prove it.

We SHOULD be top 4, we COULD be bottom 10. I’m optimistic our changes should see us play better football more consistently. Lots of other teams will also be eyeing improvement and there are some good sides ahead of us already (on paper and performance). I wont be surprised when we win the flag though and I promise I won't start a premature finals thread before we play WCE in round 23 again.

[hujsh]

Prove it.

We SHOULD be top 4, we COULD be bottom 10. I’m optimistic our changes should see us play better football more consistently. Lots of other teams will also be eyeing improvement and there are some good sides ahead of us already (on paper and performance). I wont be surprised when we win the flag though and I promise I won't start a premature finals thread before we play WCE in round 23 again.

WCE-2023: Never forget

[whythelongface]

IN camp - have we ever had a better list? We ooze top level class. The problem is we rely too heavily on our top level talent and there is a gap to the next tiers. We have added great depth in Harmes and Coffield plus added a ready made mid. Three additional players that are in the next level of players (we can subtract Smith to make it 2 additions). On top of this another preseason into other fringe players such as Darcy, Busslinger, Clarke, JOD and we have a very good 16 to 18 players. Just need the likes of West, Baker, Poulter, Scott, McNeil etc to step up consistently.

The changes to the coaching staff and the addition of Egan will also mean tweaks to the way we play. I can only see us being thereabouts come season?s end.

The only thing stopping us is between our ears.

[Sedat]

WCE-2023: Never forget
That day of shame was our turning point - almost immediately after that debacle, we went to work on a proper full scale review of all footy operations. Had we snuck into the finals/won a final, I doubt we would have taken the steps we did in the off-season.

It might all blow up this year but at least we haven't died wondering.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I'm a true bulldog fan so always live in hope. Why not.