Best Players Never to Win a Brownlow

[Scraggers]

You don't have to look far from our backyard to find some absolute guns that never took home Charlie. EJ, Hawk, Grant, Bont to name a few. But there a number of players who we would consider legends that never got adorned with the medal ... Leigh Matthews and Wayne Carey are the first two to spring to mind.

Who do you think was stiff to not win the Brownlow??

[Twodogs]

Dempsey won a Brownlow

[Scraggers]

Dempsey won a Brownlow

Doh !! editing now (Face-palm)

[Twodogs]

Doh !! editing now (Face-palm)

There weren't many highlights back in those days so any sort of success stuck in the memory.


As to your question about the best players not to win one I still think that the most dominant player I saw was Royce Hart. He would be a very deserving Brownlow medal winner.

[Dry Rot]

Dempsey won a Brownlow

I know that you are thinking Ben Harrison, but are too afraid to post that

[bornadog]

Leigh Matthews never deserved a Brownlow because he was a thug. May have been one of the best to play, but not the fairest.

EJ Whitten also played it hard, but often not the fairest, but wasn't a thug like Matthews.

[Twodogs]

Leigh Matthews never deserved a Brownlow because he was a thug. May have been one of the best to play, but not the fairest.

EJ Whitten also played it hard, but often not the fairest, but wasn't a thig like Matthews.

Completely agree.

[Axe Man]

Slightly off track but related - just saw that Bont is 10th on the all time list of average Brownlow votes per game.

The only player ahead of him to never win a Brownlow is Harold Bray who must have been unlucky not to claim the medal in the 1940/50s for St Kilda.

It's quite possible that Bont surpasses Gary Ablett Juniors all time votes record of 262 (he is just 93 behind), yet never wins the Brownlow, which would be a travesty.

[GVGjr]

Surely Pendlebury and Brent Harvey were both good enough to win brownlows?
For us Grant obviously got enough votes one year but missed out with a dodgy suspension

[Sedat]

Leigh Matthews never deserved a Brownlow because he was a thug. May have been one of the best to play, but not the fairest.

EJ Whitten also played it hard, but often not the fairest, but wasn't a thug like Matthews.
Matthews was certainly a dirty player later in his career but was he all that dirty in the 70's at his peak? I missed his 70's imperial phase as a player - his stats throughout the 70's were pretty amazing for a rover/small forward.

Would you class Dipper and Lockett as cleanskins? Greg Williams as well?

[ledge]

Pendlebury by a mile . Smooth , clean, the absolute model of the perfect footballer.
Bont much the same but he still has 3 or 4 years to win one.
Natanui would be in that category too.
How the hell Pavlich never won one is beyond belief.

[Axe Man]

Pendlebury by a mile . Smooth , clean, the absolute model of the perfect footballer.
Bont much the same but he still has 3 or 4 years to win one.
Natanui would be in that category too.
How the hell Pavlich never won one is beyond belief.

Surprisingly Pendlebury has never gone close to winning a Brownlow, his closest was 7 votes behind the winner and highest finish has been equal 4th a couple of times. He's just been very good and consistent over a long period.

Do you really rate Pendlebury as a miles better player than the likes of Matthews, Carey, Ablett Snr, Dunstall?

[ledge]

Surprisingly Pendlebury has never gone close to winning a Brownlow, his closest was 7 votes behind the winner and highest finish has been equal 4th a couple of times. He's just been very good and consistent over a long period.

Do you really rate Pendlebury as a miles better player than the likes of Matthews, Carey, Ablett Snr, Dunstall?

As far as fair yes .. it?s supposed to be best and ? fairest?
Only Dunstall would go closest to fairest in any of those.
The others were great players i am not debating that but fair no.
Matthew?s bought the game into disrepute he was the furthest from fair.
Carey was dirty , Ablett senior wasn?t exactly fair either.
It was called tough back then doesn?t mean it was fair.
My point is if you combine both Pendlebury is up there above them in the fair department and none of us doubt what a great footballer he has been.
We confuse the Brownlow with just best player but fairest is included.
In the last few years sadly it?s just a best midfielder award.

[EasternWest]

Bont. Bont. Bont.

Probably biased, (certainly biased) but Bont is one of the best players I've ever seen. It actually shocks me he hasn't won't at least one Brownlow yet.

Don't get me wrong, the Brownlow is a fool's medal - but while it exists it's a travesty he hasn't won it.

[Happy Days]

Bont. Bont. Bont.

Probably biased, (certainly biased) but Bont is one of the best players I've ever seen. It actually shocks me he hasn't won't at least one Brownlow yet.

Don't get me wrong, the Brownlow is a fool's medal - but while it exists it's a travesty he hasn't won it.

So close, but Bont has actually won two Brownlows.

[EasternWest]

So close, but Bont has actually won two Brownlows.

I don't understand this but you're much smarter than me and so I accept it as truth.

[Happy Days]

I don't understand this but you're much smarter than me and so I accept it as truth.

He actually won in 2021 and 2023, the AFL just gave them to other people in what’s becoming an increasingly mean spirited joke against Ollie Wines in particular.

[D Mitchell]

Robbie Flower.

[Grantysghost]

Robbie Flower.
Seconded boy he was a star

[GVGjr]

Robbie Flower.

Wonderful player and he had a very successful sporting goods store. There were some brilliant wingers in his day as well.

[D Mitchell]

Seconded boy he was a star
So smooth, had all the time in the world. Playing for 1970s Melbourne ruined his chances. I once attended a small social gathering, fewer than a dozen of us. There was one bloke big noting himself about how he knew a number of (unnamed) Essendon players offering to obtain autographs. Flower was among us, partner of a young lass. He could have destroyed the big noter, didn't say a word.

[Twodogs]

Matthews was certainly a dirty player later in his career but was he all that dirty in the 70's at his peak? I missed his 70's imperial phase as a player - his stats throughout the 70's were pretty amazing for a rover/small forward.

Would you class Dipper and Lockett as cleanskins? Greg Williams as well?

Matthews was a thug from day one. He destroyed Barrie Robran's knee from behind in 1974 in a state game

Have a look at some of his he man acts. Punching blokes from behind, whacking them when they were watching the ball, clothes lining them when they were running past not expecting physical contact. They say he took it and handed it out but from what I saw he was a cowardly sniper. Giving him any award with "fairest" in the description would have been a sick joke


https://youtu.be/i3usWhXxITA?si=_kPjjf8tImfsRL-U

[Mofra]

Bont was robbed last year.

Dare I say - Chris Grant? Twice?

West held the record for most Brownlow votes ever recorded by a Bulldog - did Bont overtake him?

[Prince Imperial]

Bont was robbed last year.

Dare I say - Chris Grant? Twice?

West held the record for most Brownlow votes ever recorded by a Bulldog - did Bont overtake him?

West - 175
Bontempelli - 169

Dempsey received 176 votes playing for Footscray but adjusting for the 1976 and 1977 seasons when two umpires awarded votes, his vote count is 148.5.

Ware - 130
Whitten - 112
Liberatore - 112
Grant - 112
Schultz - 111
Boyd - 108
Macrae - 106

[bornadog]

He actually won in 2021 and 2023, the AFL just gave them to other people in what’s becoming an increasingly mean spirited joke against Ollie Wines in particular.

Neil winning was a joke

[jeemak]

Matthews was a thug from day one. He destroyed Barrie Robran's knee from behind in 1974 in a state game

Have a look at some of his he man acts. Punching blokes from behind, whacking them when they were watching the ball, clothes lining them when they were running past not expecting physical contact. They say he took it and handed it out but from what I saw he was a cowardly sniper. Giving him any award with "fairest" in the description would have been a sick joke


https://youtu.be/i3usWhXxITA?si=_kPjjf8tImfsRL-U

A nasty arsehole given leeway because he was also an amazing footballer.

[Twodogs]

A nasty arsehole given leeway because he was also an amazing footballer.

Yep. He was a great player, but an arsehole is the best description of him.

[bornadog]

A nasty arsehole given leeway because he was also an amazing footballer.

When you look at that footage, you can see what a thug he was. All unnecessary given he was a good player. Don't forget he was also charged by Police for what he did to Neville Bruns.


Yep. He was a great player, but an arsehole is the best description of him.

and still is.

[EasternWest]

He actually won in 2021 and 2023, the AFL just gave them to other people in what’s becoming an increasingly mean spirited joke against Ollie Wines in particular.

Poor Lewis Taylor.

[Before I Die]

Yep. He was a great player, but an arsehole is the best description of him.

Another vote for ARSEHOLE. The game was slower, but much more violent then. Matthews wasn't the only thug playing at that time, but he was a thug among thugs. Each time he entered the field of play it was with intent to maim someone.

[angelopetraglia]

Bont averages the 10th most Brownlow Medal votes per game in history for all players who have ever played the game.

Bont averages more than Neale, Judd, Ablett Jnr, Martin, Swan, Cripps, Skilton, Mitchell, Stewart, Buckley, Reynolds, Diesel, Pendles, Black, R Harvey, and Cousins just to name a few.

[angelopetraglia]

The following modern players average more Brownlow Medal votes than Bont. Fyfe and Danger. That's it.

[angelopetraglia]

Out of the the top 25 players who have averaged the most the most Brownlow Medal Votes. Only the following have not won the Brownlow. In order of the highest average.

Harold Bray. He played 1941-52. He finished runner up twice and third once in the Brownlow.

Bont.

Clayton Oliver

Keith Shea Only played 39 games for Hawthorn in the 1940s. He finished third twice and fourth once in the Brownlow.

That is it. The other 21 all have a Charlie. Bont is bloody stiff.

[Twodogs]

Out of the the top 25 players who have averaged the most the most Brownlow Medal Votes. Only the following have not won the Brownlow. In order of the highest average.

Harold Bray. He played 1941-52. He finished runner up twice and third once in the Brownlow.

Bont.

Clayton Oliver

Keith Shea Only played 39 games for Hawthorn in the 1940s. He finished third twice and fourth once in the Brownlow.

That is it. The other 21 all have a Charlie. Bont is bloody stiff.

What about Alan Hopkins? He played a fair bit of footy when the voting system awarded 1 vote to the best player and that was. it. He placed 3 or 4 times under that system. I wonder if you converted all his 1 votes to 3 votes what his average would be?

[angelopetraglia]

What about Alan Hopkins? He played a fair bit of footy when the voting system awarded 1 vote to the best player and that was. it. He placed 3 or 4 times under that system. I wonder if you converted all his 1 votes to 3 votes what his average would be?

The source I use (AFL Tables) looks like it adjusts for the double Brownlow vote era but not the pre 1930 era. Let's adjust.

Hopkins votes per year.

1925 1 = 3
1926 2 = 6
1927 2 = 6
1928 3 =9
1929 4 = 12
1930 4 = 12
1931 25
1932 1
1933 13
1934 7

94 votes. He played 151 games.

That's 0.62 votes per game. However he didn't have the luxure of getting a 2s and 1s for the first six seasons of his career.

For context. Bont averages 0.83 Brownlow votes per game. The most in history is Haydn Bunton with 1.04.

[angelopetraglia]

Of all the players to win a Brownlow. The following players have averaged the least votes across their career. Ranked by the worst. Lots of Bulldog Brownlows on that list (and a few ex Bulldog players too).

Templeton
G Healy
B Wilson
Dipper
Hardie
Woewodin
Round
Quinlan
Aker
R Smith
Cooney
Teasdale
Lord
Wanganeen
Wynd
Couch
Libba

For context. Templeton got 6 BOG 3 votes in his career. Bont has 42 and counting.

[Twodogs]

The source I use (AFL Tables) looks like it adjusts for the double Brownlow vote era but not the pre 1930 era. Let's adjust.

Hopkins votes per year.

1925 1 = 3
1926 2 = 6
1927 2 = 6
1928 3 =9
1929 4 = 12
1930 4 = 12
1931 25
1932 1
1933 13
1934 7

94 votes. He played 151 games.

That's 0.62 votes per game. However he didn't have the luxure of getting a 2s and 1s for the first six seasons of his career.

For context. Bont averages 0.83 Brownlow votes per game. The most in history is Haydn Bunton with 1.04.

Give him another 3 X 2 and 4 X 1 votes per season, that's 10 votes a season over 6 seasons. So another 60 votes would take him up to an adjusted total of 154 votes in 151 games.

Not at all bad. He was quite a player. From memory he kicked 7 goals in his first VFA game for us in 1922 at the age of 16.

[Go_Dogs]

Bont definitely stands out.

Pendlebury and Joel Selwood others from recent memory who have consistently been around the top 10 players in the league and not won one. Clayton Oliver one who may end up similar (who knows).

[Axe Man]

Check my post on the first page about Bont AP. ;)

[angelopetraglia]

Check my post on the first page about Bont AP. ;)

Thanks Axe. Missed the reference as I was scrolling through the posts.