Forward structure - what would YOU do?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

What forward structure do you want to see?

Over a period of time we've committed to being the land of the giants, at times playing all of Naughton, Marra, Lobb, and Darcy while always playing at least 3.

It clearly hasn't worked.

I don't expect us to change it, but here's what I'd do.

Drop Lobb. He's been a severe disappointment. I don't know what to do with him for the remainder of his contract.

Promote Darcy. Play him where needed - at times it'll be as a CHB, at times it'll be as a ruck to chop out English, at times it'll be forward. He simply has to play and I get the argument we'd rather settle him into 1-2 positions but for now, given our defensive woes, we'll need him to be flexible. He's good enough to deliver that.

Play Bedendo. Can we figure out if he's worth keeping? He's been around long enough. Play him as the 'third' tall i.e. Fritsch. If it doesn't work after 4-6 weeks, re-evaluate, but let's find out if he has anything to offer because in terms of his skill set we'd be better off with a mobile medium forward than another lumbering big.

The problem is 3 KPF's can't simultaneously mark the ball. When the ball is won by the opposition, at least 1 - often 2 of them - are being run off with ease. We can drop Lobb and replace him with Darcy but it won't fix this issue.

In time, I'd be trying to get Arty and Clarke into the side. They might not be as fit as VDM or McNeil, but I'm convinced both have more to offer. I'll live with their fatigue and rotate them as needed.

What would YOU do (not what you think we'll do)?

[Ozza]

Move Naughton to defence.

Play Jamarra and Lobb as the two tall forwards until Darcy pushes Lobb out (soon).

[SquirrelGrip]

Naughton, Jamarra, Lobb is a good mix. For most of the game yesterday however, we didn't have the three of them on the field at the same time. Or if we did, it was when English was on the bench. If we are going to have three big guys up forward, play them and stretch the opposition.

Naughton simply must play higher up, occasionally swapping with Jamarra to give him a run. I suspect we were spooked by May, so gave Naughton a role that he failed miserably at. If he can't be a defensive forward and stop May, what hope do we have if he is actually playing defence?

Play English up forward at least 30% of the game. We started to do that more yesterday than last year, but unfortunately Lobb was smashed by Gawn more than Tim was, and had a poor game in the ruck.

Whoever else is playing forward needs to just watch the effort and intensity of Rhylee West. It doesn't matter who it as long as they play with the same effort as Rhylee.

And of course more sessions with Brad Johnson. If we kick straight, we are right in the hunt. Poor kicking for goal by Cody and Jamarra let us down.

[Happy Days]

I dunno. I like Naughton forward, he’s good at it and yesterday notwithstanding is our best forward at keeping the ball inside 50. Not to mention our leading goalkicker for several years.

What do we do if we move him and we still suck because our mids refuse to cover the ground that the opposition does?

[54Bulldog16]

I can’t but help think on what a new senior coach would do, without the pressure of this is just how things are, or what players expect or dictate their position should be.

1. I’ve always been pro-Naughton forward, but May/McDonald/Lever showed us the importance of great contested marking/intercept defense. Naughton to CHB, yes it’s been a long time and it will take some to gel, but his marking and ground ball/ defensive is what our backline is crying out for.
2. JUH out the square. Darcy / English swapping ruck/foward, playing deep as an option when JUH leads.
3. Lobb CHF leading up the wings. Let’s use lobb’s engine and great kicking skills.
4. Bedendo to play the Fritsch role.
5. West and Weightmen small pressure forward, stay on the ground!! Crumbing front and centre.

[mighty_west]

I actually wouldn't change too much apart from bringing Darcy in for Lobb and giving Weightman more midfield time where he was trialed in the pre season, not actually too sure what role or position McNeil played yesterday but he looked like got his spot and many agreed on here he earn't his place on the back of being a threat up forward against the Hawks booting several goals.

Darcy plays deep but gives English a chop out in the ruck, i always think an opposition with a decent resting ruck always looks more dangerous and Darcy should be better than just a resting ruck given his ability to mark at the highest point, it should give us a big advantage, he's not injured just play him, Lobb will always be Lobb, some days you might get a little bit more but at the end of the day, he's just Lobb, was at the Giants and at Freo.

Like Jamarra's positioning and overall game apart from his shaky kicking for goal, but Naughton has to play further up the ground to be that marking option and run his opponent around, getting up to the wings and peeling back around centre half forward especially when Weightman is in the forward line and given Cody's ability to jump, when Naughty gets beaten he tends to drop his head and look like he just gives up, it simply means he just has to work harder to get seperation and open up the forward line for others, he doesn't have to kick 4 or 5 goals to have a good game.

McNeil deserves to be dropped but i wouldn't hate him used as a small forward this week, still think he's ahead of Jones and Clarke given their later pre season form, VDM has to go.

All that said, if we don't fix our defensive game all over the ground it really doesn't matter what you structure up with.

[bornadog]

I can’t but help think on what a new senior coach would do, without the pressure of this is just how things are, or what players expect or dictate their position should be.

1. I’ve always been pro-Naughton forward, but May/McDonald/Lever showed us the importance of great contested marking/intercept defense. Naughton to CHB, yes it’s been a long time and it will take some to gel, but his marking and ground ball/ defensive is what our backline is crying out for.
2. JUH out the square. Darcy / English swapping ruck/foward, playing deep as an option when JUH leads.
3. Lobb CHF leading up the wings. Let’s use lobb’s engine and great kicking skills.
4. Bedendo to play the Fritsch role.
5. West and Weightmen small pressure forward, stay on the ground!! Crumbing front and centre.

You still have a pretty tall forward line, with only West and Weightman playing the smaller role.

Can we bring in another small, and rotate English and Lobb off the interchange bench?

[54Bulldog16]

You still have a pretty tall forward line, with only West and Weightman playing the smaller role.

Can we bring in another small, and rotate English and Lobb off the interchange bench?

I’d take Lobb out of the forward 50 altogether, although listed as CHF, I’d have him up the ground. The two real tall forwards are JUh and Darcy. Bedendo bring the 3rd marking target. But yes, would need a wing pushing up offensively, that could also apply pressure coming back the other way.
Dunno, just what we have now is not working.

[JanLorMill]

Naughton targetted twice inside f50 yesterday. If we aren't going to him why we even playing him as a forward?

[azabob]

Over the past 24 hours it is clear that our forward line is too one dimensional and cannot put defensive pressure on to save our lives.

This has been an issue for a number of years.

I said earlier I would like two key forwards and a medium sized forward in Weightman or give Bedendo four to six weeks in that role if he continues his vfl form. Then three smalls around them and one of those roll up as the extra midfielder if that is still our game plan desire.

A counter argument to how do we replace Naughton goals is using the Darcy Moore example.

Collingwood moved Darcy Moore back after he was a regular 30 to 40+ goal kicker.

Has Collingwood replaced him like for like or the structure he provided in defence helped offset the goals he no longer kicks.

I?m not concerned with Naughton ability to play in defence, he will thrive within a few weeks.

The one nagging thing in the back of my mind is would he go back to defence as a happy camper or be a bit salty?

One last thing, flags are won by defensive actions, not offensive actions.

[Grantysghost]

Over the past 24 hours it is clear that our forward line is too one dimensional and cannot put defensive pressure on to save our lives.

This has been an issue for a number of years.

I said earlier I would like two key forwards and a medium sized forward in Weightman or give Bedendo four to six weeks in that role if he continues his vfl form. Then three smalls around them and one of those roll up as the extra midfielder if that is still our game plan desire.

A counter argument to how do we replace Naughton goals is using the Darcy Moore example.

Collingwood moved Darcy Moore back after he was a regular 30 to 40+ goal kicker.

Has Collingwood replaced him like for like or the structure he provided in defence helped offset the goals he no longer kicks.

I?m not concerned with Naughton ability to play in defence, he will thrive within a few weeks.

The one nagging thing in the back of my mind is would he go back to defence as a happy camper or be a bit salty?

One last thing, flags are won by defensive actions, not offensive actions.

I get the feeling he would be salty. He might have to lose the headband if he's not the biggest bull in the paddock.

[bornadog]

Over the past 24 hours it is clear that our forward line is too one dimensional and cannot put defensive pressure on to save our lives.

This has been an issue for a number of years.

I said earlier I would like two key forwards and a medium sized forward in Weightman or give Bedendo four to six weeks in that role if he continues his vfl form. Then three smalls around them and one of those roll up as the extra midfielder if that is still our game plan desire.

A counter argument to how do we replace Naughton goals is using the Darcy Moore example.

Collingwood moved Darcy Moore back after he was a regular 30 to 40+ goal kicker.

Has Collingwood replaced him like for like or the structure he provided in defence helped offset the goals he no longer kicks.

I?m not concerned with Naughton ability to play in defence, he will thrive within a few weeks.

The one nagging thing in the back of my mind is would he go back to defence as a happy camper or be a bit salty?

One last thing, flags are won by defensive actions, not offensive actions.

You realise Bedendo is 191cm and not a small forward

[Grantysghost]

I dunno. I like Naughton forward, he’s good at it and yesterday notwithstanding is our best forward at keeping the ball inside 50. Not to mention our leading goalkicker for several years.

What do we do if we move him and we still suck because our mids refuse to cover the ground that the opposition does?

What did you think of Melbourne's forward line? Clearances and inside 50s were about even.

[azabob]

You realise Bedendo is 191cm and not a small forward

I suggested Bedendo is an option as the medium forward.

[Happy Days]

What did you think of Melbourne's forward line? Clearances and inside 50s were about even.

Without looking at the stats I would’ve thought they would’ve scored a lot off turnover. We might have literally had around the same inside 50s but there’s inside 50s from a quick kick out of the middle and inside 50s where the ball comes in from an opposition player in 100m of space that we’ve just kicked it straight to.

When we were defending a ball coming in on even terms I actually think the backline played pretty well.

[Ozza]

I dunno. I like Naughton forward, he’s good at it and yesterday notwithstanding is our best forward at keeping the ball inside 50. Not to mention our leading goalkicker for several years.

What do we do if we move him and we still suck because our mids refuse to cover the ground that the opposition does?

He's really not that good at it. He has phenomenal traits and ability to pack mark - but he really has very little forward craft for someone who has been playing there for 5+ years. We only targeted him twice yesterday according to David King. Jamarra as the much younger key forward is able to draw the footy regularly because he presents and he has timing/reading of the play.

[Danjul]

What did you think of Melbourne's forward line? Clearances and inside 50s were about even.
I can remember two occasions when the ball came in to a pack in the Melbourne forward line. On both occasions all our players tried to mark the ball and the Melbourne forward who stayed down took the ball out the back for a goal. Most of the time Melbourne succeeded in keeping the area open and capitalising on very good entries. Many of our entries were long bombs to nobody.

[Danjul]

He's really not that good at it. He has phenomenal traits and ability to pack mark - but he really has very little forward craft for someone who has been playing there for 5+ years. We only targeted him twice yesterday according to David King. Jamarra as the much younger key forward is able to draw the footy regularly because he presents and he has timing/reading of the play.
Jamarra is a natural forward who uses movement to make the space around him bigger. He looked excellent even though the delivery into the forward area was poor.

Naughton needs the space further up the ground. He can get bogged down in the goal square. It is part of the reason he kicked only 1 goal in so many games last year (10) and again on Sunday. Our forwards kept getting in his way, another problem which assisted the defenders.

[Mofra]

We need a small forward to actually play the small forward role.
McNeill didn't work out and West was very very good, but got a lot of his ball too high. Weightman needs to understand he's going to get the best opposition small defender week in, week out and work through that.

It's almost at "roll the dice on Clarke" time as unlike the mids we're shoe-horning into the role, he actually is a small forward.

[my plums]

I'm thinking Naughton back, drop Lobb for Darcy and have this set up:

Chook, Darcy, West
Bedendo, Marra, Flea

Use Flea in that resting mid spot and he can do some midfield stints. Desperately need spark in the middle and across the field really. It's too much of the same with the midfield at present. Bont can rest forward too if we want to stretch any sides. The three talls don't work when your best small plays as a third tall type which essentailly leaves you with 4 talls.

You may say this line up is too young, but to me they are all forwards.

[weltschmerz]

I still support the Naughton, Marra, Lobb forward trio. Tell Weightman that if he spoils a teammate again he goes straight to the bench. Give Clarke a shot.

[lemmon]

I still support the Naughton, Marra, Lobb forward trio. Tell Weightman that if he spoils a teammate again he goes straight to the bench. Give Clarke a shot.

Agree with that. We've hitched our wagon to those three, I don't think we can rip it up in round 2.

I think our game style relies on small forwards that can provide tackling pressure. We get the ball in long, need the talls to contest and rely on the smalls to create repeat stoppages in our forward half. We had one forward 50 tackle to half-time on the weekend, we aren't winning games of footy like that.

I don't care who it is - in 2016 Dunkley and Picken played as defensive, pressure forwards, but we need to find players that will tackle and harrass in the forward half.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Agree with that. We've hitched our wagon to those three, I don't think we can rip it up in round 2.

I think our game style relies on small forwards that can provide tackling pressure. We get the ball in long, need the talls to contest and rely on the smalls to create repeat stoppages in our forward half. We had one forward 50 tackle to half-time on the weekend, we aren't winning games of footy like that.

I don't care who it is - in 2016 Dunkley and Picken played as defensive, pressure forwards, but we need to find players that will tackle and harrass in the forward half.

Yeah i don't think naughton to the backline is fixing our core issue.

Our core issue is poor effort and dumb football.

We're constantly outworked. I just saw vision of Oliver (who had a hugely interrupted pre season) bust a gut from one end of the ground to another to setup a goal. Our guys who had run half the distance couldn't tackle him and Richards who came to meet him at the end of his run had his lazy tackle just brushed aside.

We look lazy, slow and weak. I don't know the reason for it though.

The dumb football has existed for years to the point you just know it won't change. Seriously. Not all flying for the same ball and having guys crumbing is just common sense football. Why can't we get this right?

Until our efforts and smarts are fixed up, it won't matter what structure we have.

[SquirrelGrip]

Agree with that. We've hitched our wagon to those three, I don't think we can rip it up in round 2.

I think our game style relies on small forwards that can provide tackling pressure. We get the ball in long, need the talls to contest and rely on the smalls to create repeat stoppages in our forward half. We had one forward 50 tackle to half-time on the weekend, we aren't winning games of footy like that.

I don't care who it is - in 2016 Dunkley and Picken played as defensive, pressure forwards, but we need to find players that will tackle and harrass in the forward half.

Garcia and West would do whatever is asked of them.

[PR0408]

Agree he is clearly the best option and the practice game when he was with jamarra weightman Treloar Bont English showed he enjoyed playing with those better player rising to the occasion. He kicked 4/5 missed a couple and give a couple off. His front and square work was electric and pressure very good.
My opinion with team. Naughton back, Lobb out Darcy in. We can play 3 fwd talks. We need to cover the ground better when opposition are exiting our fwd half. The game is past 3 key talls.
In saying that I think everyone is overreacting a little. We were in that game and start of the last we kicked 3 consecutive behinds. It was a hot day and the dees already had a game under their belts. Not panicking stations for me. English copping to much as he was pretty good then hurt his hip. He looked dynamic early. McNeil while he had a few clangers covered the ground well and probably deserves another chance. VDM and buku were serviceable and buku had one blemish with that kick is. Dees will be top 4 so not doom and gloom just yet guys.

[bornadog]

Agree he is clearly the best option and the practice game when he was with jamarra weightman Treloar Bont English showed he enjoyed playing with those better player rising to the occasion. He kicked 4/5 missed a couple and give a couple off. His front and square work was electric and pressure very good..

Who are you talking about here?

[PR0408]

Agree he is clearly the best option and the practice game when he was with jamarra weightman Treloar Bont English showed he enjoyed playing with those better player rising to the occasion. He kicked 4/5 missed a couple and give a couple off. His front and square work was electric and pressure very good.
My opinion with team. Naughton back, Lobb out Darcy in. We can play 3 fwd talks. We need to cover the ground better when opposition are exiting our fwd half. The game is past 3 key talls.
In saying that I think everyone is overreacting a little. We were in that game and start of the last we kicked 3 consecutive behinds. It was a hot day and the dees already had a game under their belts. Not panicking stations for me. English copping to much as he was pretty good then hurt his hip. He looked dynamic early. McNeil while he had a few clangers covered the ground well and probably deserves another chance. VDM and buku were serviceable and buku had one blemish with that kick is. Dees will be top 4 so not doom and gloom just yet guys.

Didn?t quote the post but it was in response to Clarke. He is the one I was referring to.

[PR0408]

Who are you talking about here?

Clarke. Apologies didn?t include the previous post where the other poster said include Clarke.

[bornadog]

Clarke. Apologies didn?t include the previous post where the other poster said include Clarke.

No worries.

Love to see Clarke in the team and see what he is made of

[Mantis]

I couldn't make sense on Sunday why we had large chunks of the game where we had 2 tall forwards on the bench at the same time.. it was ridiculous.

On that why is the expectation that tall defenders play >95% of the game, but tall forwards only play 80-85%?... that doesn't make sense to me.

[DOG GOD]

Our mids are the issue. Their refusal to run hard both ways, sacrifice their game, and their ball use are the major issues, and it doesn’t matter how we rotate them, they are a bunch of mids who are lazy and overrated.

[mjp]

I couldn't make sense on Sunday why we had large chunks of the game where we had 2 tall forwards on the bench at the same time.. it was ridiculous.


We're a rotation short for the runners mate...look at the way we line up. The bench needs to be balanced with on-field at the START of the game. But we try to squeeze an extra big in.

The defensive talls HAVE to hold 'cos there are only two (well, one actually) of them!!

[FrediKanoute]

I dunno. I like Naughton forward, he’s good at it and yesterday notwithstanding is our best forward at keeping the ball inside 50. Not to mention our leading goalkicker for several years.

What do we do if we move him and we still suck because our mids refuse to cover the ground that the opposition does?

I think the frsutration around Naughton on Sunday was that we didn't do anything with him. We didn't push him up the ground. We didn't swing him back. We didn't try to isolate him 1 v 1. We just did nothing and his opponent got 25 possessions and he got didly. When I woke up on Sunday morning and say he'd had bugger all possessions I assumed he had gotten injured.

Our forward line is crowded and dysfunctional. Naughton and Marra lead to the same spot and spoil each other. At least Lobb seems to get into different areas. The fact we still haven't solved the leading patterns after 2 or 3 seasons of these guys playing together is an sad indictment on the coaches.

[FrediKanoute]

We're a rotation short for the runners mate...look at the way we line up. The bench needs to be balanced with on-field at the START of the game. But we try to squeeze an extra big in.

The defensive talls HAVE to hold 'cos there are only two (well, one actually) of them!!

We are unbalanced aren't we. In that sense moving Nauighton back makes some sense - Jones at FB, Naughton at CHB. Marram and Lobb as our tall forwards; Cody as the medium that play's tall; a defensive forward and then 2 others.

[AshMac]

I think the core issue is we don?t seem to have a system - atleast one I can see. Until we are organised with every player clear on their role I don?t think it matters what players take the field against the really good sides

[Bulldog4life]

Let's go back to the future. The 60's. Where ruckmen changed in the back pocket to help the backline out. Johnny Schultz did with Murray Zeuschner....sorry if spelling wrong. Lobb in back pocket changing with Tim and Sammy in forward line rucking there if needed.
Let's be creative.

[bornadog]

Let's go back to the future. The 60's. Where ruckmen changed in the back pocket to help the backline out. Johnny Schultz did with Murray Zeuschner....sorry if spelling wrong. Lobb in back pocket changing with Tim and Sammy in forward line rucking there if needed.
Let's be creative.

Who can forget Dempsey taking a million marks in the backline

[Dazza]

I wouldn't mind seeing us go with the 1 KPF and 1 Ruck/KPD method. We'd probably have to stop rolling a HF to stoppages though.

[Bulldog4life]

Who can forget Dempsey taking a million marks in the backline

Yeah a ruckman in the backline saves you having a 3rd tall defender.

[Uninformed]

What would YOU do (not what you think we'll do)?

Play the forward line that the coaches we pay a lot of money to think is the best.

[jeemak]

I'd like us to play everyone higher.

Our best football was when we compressed the defensive half (and then did the same in our forward half) and ran like hell. If May or whoever is intercepting the ball, what's the point of having players behind them? Get everyone around that area and force a stoppage.

Bring our stoppage game back into it.

[Hotdog60]

I think Naughton's plan was to drag May up the field and the instruction was not to kick it to Naughton hence negating the May influence. The trouble was that May move back after the first 5 mins and kept his position and we didn't read the play book and kept kicking to were he was. We tend to trust our forwards too much and against the best defenders we need to lower the eyes and kick the ball to where the oppo best defender isn't. Know where the May's, Moore's and Collins are and keep it away from where they are.
Then we can go to work on the lesser lights.

[Sedat]

I think Naughton's plan was to drag May up the field and the instruction was not to kick it to Naughton hence negating the May influence.
If only he did that in the first 10 minutes of the 2021 GF and ripped May's dodgy hamstring off the bone