Where are our runners???

[dog town]

This is mainly a question for the posters who are able to get to some of the VFL matches.

Realistically how far off are the likes of Lynch, Stack, Reid, Ward, O'Keefe and these types of guys from being able to have an impact at AFL level? We have managed to give our side a bit more of a hardened and organised edge around the stoppages and contested play in general so far this year but we have continued to lose a bit of run.

I called it back in 2005/2006 that we had poor running depth even though we often ran sides into the ground in those years. Most agreed with me in numerous threads over the last couple of years that it would become a concern down the track. We have now lost Smith and Mcmahon within the space of 2 seasons and although our start to the season has been impressive I see many signs that we could fall away pretty quickly with injuries to any of our key runners. We have played 2 of the quickest sides in the comp over the last two weeks and could easily have lost both of them. All credit to the boys for getting the job done but these sides clearly worried us for run all over the ground. What worries me is that we dont have any clear reinforcements waiting in the wings other than the injured Ray, Higgins and Everitt.

I usually think pace is a little overrated but we still rely on it a bit for the way we play. With Aker and Eagle only getting older I really worry about where the back up will come from. Even Cooney has developed as more of an inside grunt player who rarely gets outside.

Perhaps I am over reacting after two weeks against pretty quick sides. After all we didnt lose either game but I think we should learn the lessons from our poor second half of last season. Do you guys see any of the players who are currently running around in the VFL being capable of giving us a bit of a burst if they were called upon this season?

[LostDoggy]

We are faster than Geelong. Pace isnt the issue, we just arn't good enough

[Dry Rot]

We certainly look relatively slower but are we or are other sides faster?

Can we get more out of small forwards like Gia and Aker?

[LostDoggy]

We are faster than Geelong. Pace isnt the issue, we just arn't good enough

Good enough to do what?

Not lose? If anything, we are too good to serve up the tripe we've been serving up the last couple of weeks, and yet, we've come away with a something from both of them. The structure is looking far more sound, most players have had a good pre-season, our younger players are getting better, almost every player except Johnno and maybe Gia are better than they were last year, we've unearthed a couple of raw gems, the VFL players are pushing for spots, there has been mental application in hanging on in tight games and coming from behind, the recruits have all performed at least serviceably, and there are quite a few key players coming back from injury.

So, to sum up so far: good results, increased depth, positive change, clear natural improvement, more potential improvement to come, a more balanced list, relatively successful recent recruitment.

What more could the team reasonably be doing, after the disappointment of last year, to encourage a positive outlook? We haven't achieved anything yet, and the last game was terrible, but surely the team is far ahead of most people's expectations at this point. How many wins did you pick them for before the start of the season?

Or do you think we're somehow overachieving by drawing with Richmond? Because if you think we're UNDER-achieving that means you think we're quite a good team, but if you don't think we're any good and are lucky to have won the last few games then we must be very lucky, and I'd take lucky any day of the week.

Seriously, what point are you trying to make?

[LostDoggy]

We certainly look relatively slower but are we or are other sides faster? Can we get more out of small forwards like Gia and Aker?


You don't think Aker has been good? He could kick a few more miracle goals, but apart from that he's stood up at crucial times.

I do think that Gia's been a disappointment so far. His disposal is okay, and he kicks the goals he's expected to, but his lack of pace stands out in the team and in today's game. His compensating factors are his potentially sublime skills and decision making, but these have been way down on the standard he is capable of. He also hasn't added too much to the intensity of our contest around the ball generally, apart from a few good tackles. It has to be a fitness issue with his limited pre-season, as I know that he mentally tries as hard as anyone. A really, really hard 'pre-season' type program to get him right for the second half of the season and finals would be ideal, if we could get someone else into the side to cover for him... (CALLAN WARD!)

[Dry Rot]

You don't think Aker has been good? He could kick a few more miracle goals, but apart from that he's stood up at crucial times.

I do think that Gia's been a disappointment so far. His disposal is okay, and he kicks the goals he's expected to, but his lack of pace stands out in the team and in today's game. His compensating factors are his potentially sublime skills and decision making, but these have been way down on the standard he is capable of. He also hasn't added too much to the intensity of our contest around the ball generally, apart from a few good tackles. It has to be a fitness issue with his limited pre-season, as I know that he mentally tries as hard as anyone. A really, really hard 'pre-season' type program to get him right for the second half of the season and finals would be ideal, if we could get someone else into the side to cover for him... (CALLAN WARD!)

I think you misunderstood me.

I meant that they may have to spend more time in the midfield.

[CraigW]

We replaced our runners because we were getting pushed of the ball too easily. Will Richmond and Essendon learn from our mitakes? You have to get the ball to run with the ball. Simple.

[Mantis]

We replaced our runners because we were getting pushed of the ball too easily. Will Richmond and Essendon learn from our mitakes? You have to get the ball to run with the ball. Simple.

We can get the ball, but we don't have enough players who can run and carry the ball and importantly players who can effectively distribute the ball by foot. Our good kicks or supposeded good kicks in Gilbee, Griffen and Eagleton can't get there hands on the ball. We are left with Gia, Boyd and Cross being our ball carriers and they simply aren't doing a good job at it.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I'm with DT on this one. We really need Ray back and I'd like to see someone with genuine pace come on.

We have no-one who can get near the likes of Davey.

Geelong have some bigger bodies but they still have real footspeed with blokes like Wajinsky and Stokes.

[Mantis]

I'm with DT on this one. We really need Ray back and I'd like to see someone with genuine pace come on.

We have no-one who can get near the likes of Davey.

Geelong have some bigger bodies but they still have real footspeed with blokes like Wajinsky and Stokes.

Like who? Lynch? From reports he is a million miles away from being ready to play in the Dogs team again. Harbrow looks slow, shin splints causing problems again?

Agree Ray is sorely missed.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Like who? Lynch? From reports he is a million miles away from being ready to play in the Dogs team again. Harbrow looks slow, shin splints causing problems again?

Agree Ray is sorely missed.

That's my point, it doesn't look like there is much pace waiting in the wings.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

That's my point, it doesn't look like there is much pace waiting in the wings.

It's a bit of a worry.

For some reason we don't have too many midfielders ready to take the next step into the side. Where are our 20-22 year olds? Higgins was about the only one, and he's gone for 12+ weeks. Aside from that we've got last years draftees & the year before. Stack, Harbrow & Lynch have been disappointing this year. Stack seems to be cruising in the VFL, although apparently played well on the weekend, whilst Harbrow has looked really ordinary in the AFL & Lynch slipping way back.

The signs have been pleasing thus far in '08, but I'm worried we could crash & burn if we receive anymore injuries. Ray will be a huge inclusion when fit, but it's a real shame Higgins is out for so long. Williams/Everitt will be welcomed inclusions provided they play as well or better than last season.

With these four quality players to return, that means Wight probably plays reserves & ditto Harbrow & Addison. Although Wight/Addison have done OK in parts, those inclusions make our side look a lot better.

Time will only tell.

[MrMahatma]

You can only fit 22 in your 22. We've got Eagleton & Hill who are completely 'outside' players. Arguably Gilbee also. Cooney & Griff are outside/inside players who can run and carry, and have good pace, and then there's Boyd, Cross, West who play mostly inside.

The difference between this year and previous years is guys like Griffen and Cooney had previously played much more of an outside role, running and receiving from West et al rather than getting their own ball.

I don't think we're desperate for pace - across the board we're pretty quick. What we'd probably want is one super quick guy to take over from Eagleton - however skills are more important than pace - so would rather a skillful player than just a quick guy.

[1eyedog]

I reckon the loss of West over the past 2 weeks has really made our ball movement look ordinary. Usually it is West who gets the ball and feeds it out to the runners, now our runners (Cooney, Griffen) are expected to get the ball when Crossy goes off for a rest. Boyd is a bloody good player but he is not a consistent hard ball get player. True, our runners are receiving more hard ball gets from Hudson from what they did from Street last year but just really think we miss West feeding it out. I also agree that we really miss Ray as well, with Jordy gone Ray is one player who finds space and likes to bounce and carry (even though his disposal is often poor).

[The Doctor]

I think the moderate form of Gilbee and Eagleton hasn't helped any.

With Ray also injured it is easy to see why our running spark isn't so prominent. I reckon Ray would have afield day with our improved clearance work around the ground. McMahon is being missed in this area as he was one of our best.

We are also a bit one paced aroung the middle. Boyd, Giansiracusa, West, Cross, Hahn, Callan don't really burn the turf.

[Topdog]

Spot on Doctor. When Gilbee is on song he looks super quick with his 100m plays, Eagleton is very similar.

Ray coming back and in form will add another dimension to our team.

[Bulldog Revolution]

As well as the return of Ray, Everitt and Williams also add a bit of dash and run to the side when selected.

Lynch has been a big disappointment so far. I had high hopes for him this season and he is struggling. Stack for my money is improving steadily.

OKeefe and Ward dont look far away as players, and could be regular parts of the setup in 09 if they keep improving.

[LostDoggy]

As well as the return of Ray, Everitt and Williams also add a bit of dash and run to the side when selected.

Lynch has been a big disappointment so far. I had high hopes for him this season and he is struggling. Stack for my money is improving steadily.

OKeefe and Ward dont look far away as players, and could be regular parts of the setup in 09 if they keep improving.

Bit harsh, the kid has been injured. He will be a good player, will just take a few years to develop.

[hujsh]

As well as the return of Ray, Everitt and Williams also add a bit of dash and run to the side when selected.

Lynch has been a big disappointment so far. I had high hopes for him this season and he is struggling. Stack for my money is improving steadily.

OKeefe and Ward dont look far away as players, and could be regular parts of the setup in 09 if they keep improving.

Do you mean Harbrow?

[GVGjr]

Bit harsh, the kid has been injured. He will be a good player, will just take a few years to develop.

Not really. He hasn't been as focused on his footy as he should be and we all know that talent alone won't get you over the line if your work ethic isn't spot on.


Do you mean Harbrow?

I think it's Lynch not Harbrow that BR is referring to.

[Desipura]

We are faster than Geelong. Pace isnt the issue, we just arn't good enough
Speaking of harsh, when you make such a comment you may want to back it up with a bit of a specific reason.

[LostDoggy]

Speaking of harsh, when you make such a comment you may want to back it up with a bit of a specific reason.

I dont think pace is the main problem. The backline is to leaky, forward line lacks quality talls, accountabilty is still a concern, etc etc.

[dog town]

I think the moderate form of Gilbee and Eagleton hasn't helped any.

With Ray also injured it is easy to see why our running spark isn't so prominent. I reckon Ray would have afield day with our improved clearance work around the ground. McMahon is being missed in this area as he was one of our best.

We are also a bit one paced aroung the middle. Boyd, Giansiracusa, West, Cross, Hahn, Callan don't really burn the turf.
Ray will certainly help. He is not overly quick but he can and will carry the football. He can also run all day which makes him pretty vital if he can keep the rest of his game up to scratch.

I am not even overly concerned with our lack of genuine game breaking pace although like Scooter I think we need atleast one more guy who can really fly. The main concern is just getting some more players in who are not only strong runners but can use that strength. Cross isn't that quick but his preparedness to use his engine makes him more damaging than any burst ball carrier going around. You dont have to be elite in pace to help us in the running department. We just need a bit of depth and maybe a bit of a top up in pace.

[bornadog]

We are faster than Geelong. Pace isnt the issue, we just arn't good enough

Not sure what you mean we arn't good enough? Isn't being undefeated good enough for you Jerry.?

[bornadog]

We can get the ball, but we don't have enough players who can run and carry the ball and importantly players who can effectively distribute the ball by foot. Our good kicks or supposeded good kicks in Gilbee, Griffen and Eagleton can't get there hands on the ball. We are left with Gia, Boyd and Cross being our ball carriers and they simply aren't doing a good job at it.

Are your comments based on rounds one to 5 or just round 5. I think I agree if its just round 5.

If you notice we have changed our game plan this year and our midfield has become more accountable. The midfield is more agressive and we are kicking the ball long into the forward line instead of bouncing and running and kicking short into the forward line. Have a look at the long kicks this year once we have passed the centre line.

[bornadog]

Lynch has been a big disappointment so far. I had high hopes for him this season and he is struggling. Stack for my money is improving steadily. .

BR, bit unfair on Lynch, he has been injured with a bad hammy. Give him time.

[Mantis]

Are your comments based on rounds one to 5 or just round 5. I think I agree if its just round 5.

If you notice we have changed our game plan this year and our midfield has become more accountable. The midfield is more agressive and we are kicking the ball long into the forward line instead of bouncing and running and kicking short into the forward line. Have a look at the long kicks this year once we have passed the centre line.

Comments are based on the first 5 rounds. When we have the ball in the hands of Cooney, Griffen, Akermanis and Gilbee and we are on the burst we look dangerous. When the ball is in the hands of our other 'running' players I am not so confident. We have to get a couple more good users of the ball into the team.

[Sockeye Salmon]

BR, bit unfair on Lynch, he has been injured with a bad hammy. Give him time.

Lynch might not have much time.

[hujsh]

Lynch might not have much time.

It's only his second year:confused:

[Sockeye Salmon]

It's only his second year:confused:

He might not get a third.

[ledge]

I noticed Gia got a mention in early threads , did anyone else see him jib competing for a mark at one stage, looked terrible and he knew it.
As much as i would like to say maybe the richmond player tricked him by calling it , but for all accounts i cannot see that was the reason. It cost us a goal and Gia did not look good at all.
Gia has skills, is a great kick and i understand he does a lot off the ball but when its a ball to be won i dont see him in there much.

[1eyedog]

I noticed Gia got a mention in early threads , did anyone else see him jib competing for a mark at one stage, looked terrible and he knew it.
As much as i would like to say maybe the richmond player tricked him by calling it , but for all accounts i cannot see that was the reason. It cost us a goal and Gia did not look good at all.
Gia has skills, is a great kick and i understand he does a lot off the ball but when its a ball to be won i dont see him in there much.

Guido can be a real wuss, a pink balloon blew over the forward pocket at the Lockett end on Saturday and I saw Guido go and pick it up. The rubber man can definately play but he's generally pretty hands off IMO

[Bulldog4life]

Lynch might not have much time.


Not really. He hasn't been as focused on his footy as he should be and we all know that talent alone won't get you over the line if your work ethic isn't spot on.



I think it's Lynch not Harbrow that BR is referring to.


Can you elaborate further on how he has not been focused please GVGjr.

[GVGjr]

Can you elaborate further on how he has not been focused please GVGjr.


Word has it that Lynch hasn't been working hard enough to build on his encouraging first season. Hopefully he will get his act together soon.

[Bulldog4life]

Word has it that Lynch hasn't been working hard enough to build on his encouraging first season. Hopefully he will get his act together soon.

Thanks for that. Pity. The boy's got talent.

[Desipura]

I dont think pace is the main problem. The backline is to leaky, forward line lacks quality talls, accountabilty is still a concern, etc etc.

Not good enough to win the premiership I assume? Fair enough. Add Williams & Everitt to the backline and we should have that part covered. Accountability has been good most of the time however I agree a number of quarters it has not, and as a result has cost us.

Quality talls in the fwd line, agree and it will stay as it is until the likes of Grant understand what is required to play the game at a higher level.

[The Doctor]

I am not even overly concerned with our lack of genuine game breaking pace although like Scooter I think we need atleast one more guy who can really fly. The main concern is just getting some more players in who are not only strong runners but can use that strength. Cross isn't that quick but his preparedness to use his engine makes him more damaging than any burst ball carrier going around. You dont have to be elite in pace to help us in the running department. We just need a bit of depth and maybe a bit of a top up in pace.


I actually think that aside from the obvious calls for a big Jon Brown type getting another explosive midfielder type could be a recruiting priority for us this year. I'd like to see more breakaway pace from our clearances and certainly more precision with our delivery forward. An Embley type maybe?