Bulldogs V Cats - Round 4 (Gather Round), 6/4/24 Adelaide Oval 8:10pm AEST

[whythelongface]

I'd rather swap Dale and Williams - move Williams to half back where he does his best work and move Dale further up the ground and get him to utilise his pace and good foot skills.

Not a bad idea. When Williams gets into the game he is good. Just doesn’t do it enough.best position is behind the ball

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Max Laughton

Geelong now 18-3 against the Bulldogs since the 2009 finals, and the third of those losses was last year with the Dogs playing for finals and the Cats totally cue in the rack. One of the great modern footy hoodoos.

I'll forego a future flag just to beat them at full strength once.

[comrade]

Max Laughton

Geelong now 18-3 against the Bulldogs since the 2009 finals, and the third of those losses was last year with the Dogs playing for finals and the Cats totally cue in the rack. One of the great modern footy hoodoos.

That is insanity given we?ve made 2 GFs & finals a bunch of times. Bunnies.

[Mantis]

I thought Macrae was pretty good when he came on.

If pretty good is having 1 kick then I?d hate to see what poor looks like?

The way the game was being played, and how gassed Geelong were it would?ve been more beneficial to have Garcia as the sub.

[jeemak]

We've also had to play them more at their home ground than many others.

I'd like to get a crack at them at the MCG again at some point.

[angelopetraglia]

Treloar just absolutely gutted in the post match TV interview.

You can knock him for a lot of things, but you can?t question his commitment, preparation and how much it means to him. Passion in spades.

[jeemak]

If pretty good is having 1 kick then I?d hate to see what poor looks like?

The way the game was being played, and how gassed Geelong were it would?ve been more beneficial to have Garcia as the sub.

Bevo stuffed up going against his own logic about Jack. He needs to play the full game (or be subbed out), and can't be the sub.

[ledge]

I think even though we lost Bont will get three votes.
Thought our backline held up pretty well when we didn’t just let them run through the middle.
Our problem is not our forward line it’s our kicking into it . Proven today , JUH was great once we lowered our eyes.
Darcy will be a huge headache for clubs this year.
Daniel had a shocker.
Macrae livened us up when he came on.

[Hotdog60]

Treloar may have got a fair bit of it but felt he did little to help our cause.
Daniel has become a liability.
Maybe it's time to swap Dale and VDM around and see how it goes at least Dale knows were the goals are from 15 metres out and we would break even with VDM in the backline.

[Grantysghost]

They just showed the Stengle "mark" again, and it was clear one hand wasn't on the ball when the ball was well behind the line.

Terrible bullshit decision.

That was never a mark. Why review when you still guess? Should always take the lesser.

[kickit2Koly]

I'd rather swap Dale and Williams - move Williams to half back where he does his best work and move Dale further up the ground and get him to utilise his pace and good foot skills.

yeah good call, although if we are dropping/ subbing Macrae and and Daniel he should be held to the same standard.

[jeemak]

There was one play where VDM got the ball on the outer wing/ flank and put a decent entry in, and it then went near side pocket and VDM was all of a sudden there putting pressure on.

At that point people potted him for being shit for not executing the pressure as well as you might like, but nobody really acknowledged he covered 80m to do it in rapid time.

I'm not a VDM fan by any stretch, but a bit of balance is needed in assessing what he does, versus what someone else might do in his place. Not sure we have anyone else on the list willing to run like that.

[whythelongface]

Treloar may have got a fair bit of it but felt he did little to help our cause.
Daniel has become a liability.
Maybe it's time to swap Dale and VDM around and see how it goes at least Dale knows were the goals are from 15 metres out and we would break even with VDM in the backline.


I don’t get the criticism of Treloar. Sure there were a couple of poor decisions but if you get the ball that much it happens. Thought he was excellent overall.

[josie]

I am still seething over the free against Flea when he was trying to handball to West and the umpire called it insufficient bullshit. They took that all the way for a goal.

Anyway, at one stage I thought we were going to get smashed, but we fought on.

Yeah-that was a bad decision by ump. That and the Stengle mark which wasn?t. We were lucky Cameron didn?t kick accurately but then again he was extremely influential marking so well everywhere (aaargh).

[The Bulldogs Bite]

There was one play where VDM got the ball on the outer wing/ flank and put a decent entry in, and it then went near side pocket and VDM was all of a sudden there putting pressure on.

At that point people potted him for being shit for not executing the pressure as well as you might like, but nobody really acknowledged he covered 80m to do it in rapid time.

I'm not a VDM fan by any stretch, but a bit of balance is needed in assessing what he does, versus what someone else might do in his place. Not sure we have anyone else on the list willing to run like that.

You need to do more than run in this game. His effort is great, but a lot of his running is dumb running. It's not actually pressuring the opposition when you run past the player , or make yourself the 'over the top' handball cone.

If we want a runner, let's go get a marathon runner.

[angelopetraglia]

Cody Weightman 8 tackles tonight with a busted elbow is a great effort. That is the second most tackles he has ever had in a game.

[Sedat]

And one of our 3 wins since 2009 against Geelong was Harry Taylor crapping the bed after the siren. Total bunnies.

[kickit2Koly]

He was excellent in 2022 and should have been All Australian. Agree that he wasn't great last year and that he's been patchy after an interrupted start to the year.

Yeah you’re right, I should have been more specific. He hasn’t been good for 12 months.

[josie]

I'll forego a future flag just to beat them at full strength once.

Yeah, nah.

[Hotdog60]

He annoys me in the lethargic way he moves. One passage of play he lets Cameron go past him and didn't move at all to put any sort of pressure on him just kept jogging in a straight line with arms flapping.
If he doesn't get pill there's not much happening after that. It might be because of all the injuries he's had in the past who knows.
I don't see live game so my perspective is narrow.

[hujsh]

Treloar 37
Bont 35
Libba 35

Each of them also kick a goal. Yet we lose the game and the inside 50m count as well.

I think with us that's not the best way to judge if we're at our best. Yes those three are important players but to some extent the more we rely on them the worse we are. When we're doing really well others are stepping up and taking some of the load themselves. Sanders had 23 touches, Richards 21. No one else had over 20.

Obviously there were other important contributors, Darcy 3 goals, Jones lots of intercept marks, Weightman pressure and a couple goals, but that's too much in the hands of too few. We needed more from JJ, Bramble, Dale, Baker (though I think what he brought was impactful actually), Daniel, Gallager, Naughton, Vandermere and Williams.

I'd also hope for more from English TBH. If he was better than Stanley it wasn't by much.

We can't ask for much more from those three you mentioned (though I'd take a bit less from 2 of them at times in exchange for improved defensive efforts and more sound decision making) but there's a lot more we can ask for from nearly the majority of the 22.

Really hurts that Daniel is looking so lost

[jeemak]

That was never a mark. Why review when you still guess? Should always take the lesser.

The decision was clearly as soon as he touched it he was deemed to be controlling it, and that's just bullshit given his hand positions once the ball crossed the line.

Arseholes will say it was fine, but it's not.

[bornadog]

That was never a mark. Why review when you still guess? Should always take the lesser.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1776564521231859754

AFL are a joke as a so called professional sport admin

[angelopetraglia]

Treloar

37 touches
A great goal under pressure to give us a chance
5 tackles
561 metres gained (only behind Bont)
6 clearances (only behind Libba and Bont)
6 inside 50m
11 contested possesions (only behind Libibba and Bont)

Yes, he does rush a few kicks around the corner at times for easy turnovers. His disposal effeciency was only 60%. But Libba is 65% and Bont is also 60% yet they don't get the same scrunity for it. His possesions are generally in traffic and under pressure.

[jeemak]

I don’t get the criticism of Treloar. Sure there were a couple of poor decisions but if you get the ball that much it happens. Thought he was excellent overall.

How did you like the bit where the Cats were sixty out and he didn't put any frontal pressure onto the ball carrier and Henry got the easy lead up mark?

That was unbelievably bad.

However, his output outweighs the negatives, but he should still be subject to criticism like everyone else.

[bornadog]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GKewjo6aUAAtJoe?format=jpg&name=large

[jeemak]

You need to do more than run in this game. His effort is great, but a lot of his running is dumb running. It's not actually pressuring the opposition when you run past the player , or make yourself the 'over the top' handball cone.

If we want a runner, let's go get a marathon runner.

But VDM can play football better than marathon runners, so we should keep him until we find someone who can run like he can and play football better than he can.

[kickit2Koly]

That was never a mark. Why review when you still guess? Should always take the lesser.

what I don’t understand is why it was reviewed in the first place. The goal umpire didn’t call for it, he was waving the flag when Richo was kicking in.

[whythelongface]

He annoys me in the lethargic way he moves. One passage of play he lets Cameron go past him and didn't move at all to put any sort of pressure on him just kept jogging in a straight line with arms flapping.
If he doesn't get pill there's not much happening after that. It might be because of all the injuries he's had in the past who knows.
I don't see live game so my perspective is narrow.

Whom are you referring to?

[jeemak]

Treloar

37 touches
A great goal under pressure to give us a chance
5 tackles
561 metres gained (only behind Bont)
6 clearances (only behind Libba and Bont)
6 inside 50m
11 contested possesions (only behind Libibba and Bont)

Yes, he does rush a few kicks around the corner at times for easy turnovers. His disposal effeciency was only 60%. But Libba is 65% and Bont is also 60% yet they don't get the same scrunity for it. His possesions are generally in traffic and under pressure.

He had a fantastic game, as did Libba.

But both did things at times I didn't like, particularly in the area of not locking the football in and creating another stoppage. The Cats were killing us on the spread in the first half and these guys should have done everything they could to stop that.

[jeemak]

Whom are you referring to?

Flappy McFlapface. Who else?

[Hotdog60]

Whom are you referring to?

My comment on Treloar

[whythelongface]

what I don’t understand is why it was reviewed in the first place. The goal umpire didn’t call for it, he was waving the flag when Richo was kicking in.

Good point. Was it the field umpire that referred it or was it a directive from the VAR/ DRS (or whatever they call it) umpire

[jeemak]

Now to watch NUFC shit the bed!!! Yay, team sports!!!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

But VDM can play football better than marathon runners

I need convincing on that.

Tongue in cheek I know, but he ain't good enough. Let's move on. We need a small forward who can actually hit the scoreboard (Stengle would have been nice).

[angelopetraglia]

How did you like the bit where the Cats were sixty out and he didn't put any frontal pressure onto the ball carrier and Henry got the easy lead up mark?

That was unbelievably bad.

However, his output outweighs the negatives, but he should still be subject to criticism like everyone else.

Yes. That looked bad. However, I just think he was absolutely cooked. We probably are not rotating enough of the midfield time.

Treloar on his podcast this week. He said he played better against the Eagles as Jacko coming in meant they could share the midfield time better, he said he plays his best footy when he has more burst energy rather than trying to play the entire game in the midfield. He said the balance was much better against the Eagles than against Melbourne.

This week against Cats. Centre Bounce Attendances.

English 27
Bont 26
Libba 25
Treloar 23


Sanders 12
Darcy 5
Gallagher 5

I don't think we are getting this right.

[bornadog]

Good point. Was it the field umpire that referred it or was it a directive from the VAR/ DRS (or whatever they call it) umpire
They check every score, so yes video checkers

[mighty_west]

Unfortunately we've seen this movie time and time again and the ending never changes, a few umpiring decisions here and there, Stengles mark (was ALWAYS going to be a mark as much as we hate it as the side view showed it had slotted in Stengles hands with a bee's thingy still in front of the line) but then Williams clear push in the back with that last goal......... as for Richo to go on about having controlled it? he doesn't have to control it in that split second as long as it hits the mits and doesn't bobble out at any time, love Richo but c'mon.

A lot to like about the game as like others said, we get beaten by a few goals if it's 2023, our fitness and willingness is there but i'm still not convinced with our fast running game style especially against the better sides and in big finals because once we turn it over it can get ugly on the rebound, quite often also in pack situations far too many times we just watch them take an easy grab and not contest it, that's frustrating, those easy goals a few times straight after we slot one plus that end to end without touching the ball are inexcusable.

Have wanted Garcia in since round 1 and still want him in, he will be manic with his pressure and go hard for anything, players like Dale just don't, old man Duryea put his body on the line copping a big hit, not sure Dale would have done that, if we play Dale it has to be on a wing where he can just roam free.

Geez i hate losing to those clowns.

[angelopetraglia]

He had a fantastic game, as did Libba.

But both did things at times I didn't like, particularly in the area of not locking the football in and creating another stoppage. The Cats were killing us on the spread in the first half and these guys should have done everything they could to stop that.

Agree. I think we need to give them more rest and rotate more players through the midfield. See my other post. It is an energy thing. They are such passionate, win at all cost beasts.

[kickit2Koly]

Good point. Was it the field umpire that referred it or was it a directive from the VAR/ DRS (or whatever they call it) umpire

no idea but I thought only the goal umpire can call for a review?!

[jeemak]

I need convincing on that.

Tongue in cheek I know, but he ain't good enough. Let's move on. We need a small forward who can actually hit the scoreboard (Stengle would have been nice).

NO! I want to spend the next hour arguing this very point until my next masochism session starts at 1am (NUFC at home vs. Spurs).

[whythelongface]

My comment on Treloar

Pretty harsh. What more do you want him to do?Seems to me he busts a gut running, maybe he could do more defensively (even though he is a good tackler) but he cracks in and is a bloody good asset

[angelopetraglia]

I think with us that's not the best way to judge if we're at our best. Yes those three are important players but to some extent the more we rely on them the worse we are. When we're doing really well others are stepping up and taking some of the load themselves. Sanders had 23 touches, Richards 21. No one else had over 20.

Obviously there were other important contributors, Darcy 3 goals, Jones lots of intercept marks, Weightman pressure and a couple goals, but that's too much in the hands of too few. We needed more from JJ, Bramble, Dale, Baker (though I think what he brought was impactful actually), Daniel, Gallager, Naughton, Vandermere and Williams.

I'd also hope for more from English TBH. If he was better than Stanley it wasn't by much.

We can't ask for much more from those three you mentioned (though I'd take a bit less from 2 of them at times in exchange for improved defensive efforts and more sound decision making) but there's a lot more we can ask for from nearly the majority of the 22.

Really hurts that Daniel is looking so lost

Agree. We need to share the load better. I don't think Bevo is getting this right at the moment.

[jeemak]

Agree. I think we need to give them more rest and rotate more players through the midfield. See my other post. It is an energy thing. They are such passionate, win at all cost beasts.

Both had instances when they were on their backs and not going to be pinged with the footy, but put it on their boots anyway.

Even if they were going to be pinged it would have at least slowed play.

Complete madness.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

NO! I want to spend the next hour arguing this very point until my next masochism session starts at 1am (NUFC at home vs. Spurs).

The vicious cycle never ends!

[whythelongface]

no idea but I thought only the goal umpire can call for a review?!

Same. If it ain’t requested by the goal umpire then it is game on. You could tell by Richards reaction that he had no idea what was going on.

[jeemak]

Agree. We need to share the load better. I don't think Bevo is getting this right at the moment.

I wonder how we compare to other teams.

[hujsh]

Agree. I think we need to give them more rest and rotate more players through the midfield. See my other post. It is an energy thing. They are such passionate, win at all cost beasts.


I think with us that's not the best way to judge if we're at our best. Yes those three are important players but to some extent the more we rely on them the worse we are.

We can't ask for much more from those three you mentioned (though I'd take a bit less from 2 of them at times in exchange for improved defensive efforts and more sound decision making)



I think we're on the same page here. When we're not getting the contribution from others, those 3 step up. They get the ball but lose the ability to do those little things that matter like the defensive efforts.

[jeemak]

The vicious cycle never ends!

It's niche perversion.

[whythelongface]

How did you like the bit where the Cats were sixty out and he didn't put any frontal pressure onto the ball carrier and Henry got the easy lead up mark?

That was unbelievably bad.

However, his output outweighs the negatives, but he should still be subject to criticism like everyone else.

Not saying he is beyond criticism just that the criticism he attracts is at times harsh given his output.
Where is the criticism of JJ who did SFA tonight. Treloar cops a bit but is consistently one of our best.

[angelopetraglia]

I think we're on the same page here. When we're not getting the contribution from others, those 3 step up. They get the ball but lose the ability to do those little things that matter like the defensive efforts.

100%. Agree. We are in violent agreement.

[Grantysghost]

Treloar was good. I think he lacks a real urgency with his defensive running, and i was annoyed in that secondary stoppage late in f50 he let them come out the front;however, with Bont and Libba doing so much defensive work and not being fast he is an attacking mid so ive made peace with it.

[angelopetraglia]

Intercept Possesions

Khamis 10
Jones 9
Duryea 8

I thought these three were super tonight. The next for intercept possesions was Libba with 6, he was literally everywhere.

[whythelongface]

Intercept Possesions

Khamis 10
Jones 9
Duryea 8

I thought these three were super tonight. The next for intercept possesions was Libba with 6, he was literally everywhere.

Agree they were huge. Duryea was absolutely super. Not only his marking but his 2nd and 3rd efforts were great. Shanked a couple of kicks but happens when you bust a gut and expend your energy

[angelopetraglia]

They kicked some big goals on the run from outside 50m tonight too.

[angelopetraglia]

The Bont handball to West needs a bit more appreciation. It was equisitie.

[jeemak]

Intercept Possesions

Khamis 10
Jones 9
Duryea 8

I thought these three were super tonight. The next for intercept possesions was Libba with 6, he was literally everywhere.

A lot was made of how Geelong set up to intercept but I thought our defensive structure was excellent in terms of creating intercepts.

Our defending between the arcs and allowance of Geelong to spread to outnumber us was what killed us. It was then some of the defending by individuals was exposed.

[jeemak]

They kicked some big goals on the run from outside 50m tonight too.

It's literally party time when they play us. They've pinged ridiculous goals over the journey.

[Bigdog]

I like Buku. There is a lot to work with. But his still not fit enough. He gets found out at ground level and misses easy tackles.

I think his defensive efforts will improve with more senior exposure. I think he will be a reliable league footy player in 12 months time if he gets the game time.

[angelopetraglia]

He had a fantastic game, as did Libba.

But both did things at times I didn't like, particularly in the area of not locking the football in and creating another stoppage. The Cats were killing us on the spread in the first half and these guys should have done everything they could to stop that.

Just watched the replay of this. I don't think there was that much more he could do. Even he ran a bit harder, it was not going to make a difference. He was inbetween two of players.

[Rocket Science]

Intercept Possesions

Khamis 10
Jones 9
Duryea 8

I thought these three were super tonight. The next for intercept possesions was Libba with 6, he was literally everywhere.

Yeah, tonight vindicated the decision to keep Duryea around who stood up against torrid opposition and remains the best (and only) small genuine defender on our list and gee whiz maybe we should do something to rectify that at some point.

[angelopetraglia]

The VDM kick to Marra under extreme pressure for a goal was very, very good. I know we can all whack him. But credit where credit is due.

[jeemak]

Just watched the replay of this. I don't think there was that much more he could do. Even he ran a bit harder, it was not going to make a difference. He was inbetween two of players.

My view on it is you run at the player with the footy and not worry about the other guy as you should have a team mate also pressing up. Force the player to execute the skill properly under pressure.

If it's on the half back line or on the wing, then it's different. But you can't let an easy entry in from sixty metres out against a team like Geelong. It's not OK.

[angelopetraglia]

Why VDM gets a game.

Total Sprints

VDM 37
Tuohy 27
Holmes 27
Dempsey 26
Stengle 25

Repeated Sprints

VDM 8
Stengle 5
Tuohy 4
Holmes 4
Miers 4

Where is the other running talent on our list?

If VDM is fit, he is playing. Every single week.

[angelopetraglia]

My view on it is you run at the player with the footy and not worry about the other guy as you should have a team mate also pressing up. Force the player to execute the skill properly under pressure.

If it's on the half back line or on the wing, then it's different. But you can't let an easy entry in from sixty metres out against a team like Geelong. It's not OK.

Agree 100% with your thoughts on running at the player with the ball.

However, even if he ran straight at him, I don' think he was close enough to make a difference. Obvisoulsy up to interepration.

[dog town]

How did you like the bit where the Cats were sixty out and he didn't put any frontal pressure onto the ball carrier and Henry got the easy lead up mark?

That was unbelievably bad.

However, his output outweighs the negatives, but he should still be subject to criticism like everyone else.
Treloar is generally under appreciated but he was awful in big contests tonight.

[GVGjr]

I like Buku. There is a lot to work with. But his still not fit enough. He gets found out at ground level and misses easy tackles.

I think his defensive efforts will improve with more senior exposure. I think he will be a reliable league footy player in 12 months time if he gets the game time.

I don't think he can improve his fitness and pace so those limitations will hurt him. Super impressed with how far he's come under Daniel Pratt though.

[angelopetraglia]

I don't think he can improve his fitness and pace so those limitations will hurt him. Super impressed with how far he's come under Daniel Pratt though.

Understand pace. You can't teach speed. However fitness? Fitness you can improve with work can't you?

[jeemak]

I think having to put in huge minutes is going to improve Buku's overall fitness, but he'll have a lower ceiling than others and we're probably close to realising what that ceiling is.

He just needs to work on his craft like a madman to offset it.

[GVGjr]

Understand pace. You can't teach speed. However fitness? Fitness you can improve with work can't you?

He's been in the system for a decent amount of time so I don't think there is a massive amount of improvement to follow.
If you use the 2km time trials the club has been utilizing as a gauge of fitness he's a fair way back.
He's going to need to learn to run in better patterns much like Fletcher Roberts did. He's an impressive interceptor but he is a bit limited when pitted against mobile forwards.

[angelopetraglia]

He's been in the system for a decent amount of time so I don't think there is a massive amount of improvement to follow.
If you use the 2km time trials the club has been utilizing as a gauge of fitness he's a fair way back.
He's going to need to learn to run in better patterns much like Fletcher Roberts did. He's an impressive interceptor but he is a bit limited when pitted against mobile forwards.

OK. Thanks for that info.

How is his work ethic? Is it where it needs to be? I know from a running background, it is amazing how much fitter you can get with just putting in more work (i.e. adding more volume). Speed is much more limited by genetics.

[angelopetraglia]

Bevo in his presser highlighted the sliding doors of the VDM miss and the subsequent not defending the ground properley. 'That was the game'.

[GVGjr]

OK. Thanks for that info.

How is his work ethic? Is it where it needs to be? I know from a running background, it is amazing how much fitter you can get with just putting in more work (i.e. adding more volume). Speed is much more limited by genetics.

He's a terrific trainer but I don't think he has the higher ceiling that others might. I hope I'm wrong.

[angelopetraglia]

He's a terrific trainer but I don't think he has the higher ceiling that others might. I hope I'm wrong.

OK. That is good news. Endurance is also gentically dependant, just less so than speed.

[Scorlibo]

Just got back from the game. First experience at Adelaide Oval, thought it was a great venue. East access around the stadium, well signposted, good atmosphere albeit full of neutral Carlton fans from the previous game.

Kind of surprised to see so many positive comments on the board as my impression at the ground was that we played poorly for most of the game. Our ball movement was lacking fluidity which is understandable against the Cats' defensive game. However they so often were able to beat us on the spread, as well as get clean ball away from the stoppage. Thought it was a real step backwards for our pressure and running between the arcs.

The last quarter fightback showed real grit, but honestly it felt like we had to go back to the old clearance and territory game plan to have a chance at beating them - Libba, Bont and English stepped up big time in the clinches to give us first use. Thought English was well beaten by Stanley up until halfway through the third. Macrae made a big difference when he came on from where I was sitting.

We really missed the run of JJ and Bramble off half back with both of them having down games. Really liked Liam Jones' game on Hawkins. Disappointing that Cameron had the impact he did, whatever plans we had for him didn't come off.

The Cats really sweat on the ball carrier and it's amazing seeing how well they get from contest to contest. Players with good vision in tight like Bont were able to occasionally clear to a player in space (thinking of the handball over the top to West in particular), but by and large we succumbed to their pressure on the tight handballs. We looked most dangerous when we cleared the immediate vicinity even if it was with a toe poke forward.

Overall there's a lot to work on but also a lot to work with, we shouldn't be satisfied with getting close - we could have won this game well.

Also - it has to be said - no way did Stengle control that ball before it crossed the line. Robbed!

[Bigdog]

I hate honourable loss?, but I?m not upset with tonight.

We had some great players tonight, but I still see huge improvement in the team in a game we should have won.

- The defensive structure broke down at halfback 4-5 times tonight because one cog in the wheel got lost or was ball watching. These got punished by goals as Geelong are a good side. This is what happens with a new system. Bring this down to 1-2 by the end of the year and we are 3 goal better side.

- We have had some significant change in our list the last 12 months. I think we have a much deeper list than 2023. We won?t know our best mix until the second half of the year. If we can bank wins while solving some of the positional equations we are in a good spot.

- Forward line connection wasn?t good tonight (Probably wasn?t too bad until the last quarter). This has not been good since 2021 when Bruce was firing. So there are going to be big question marks on whether we can solve this problem. However I think they can get this right. I like Naughton playing up the ground and I love what Darcy can become. Probably missing quality half forwards and small forwards.

- Run off half back. We were really poor tonight running off half back compared with round 2 & 3. This was probably due to the forward weapons Geelong have in contrast to GC and West Coast. If we improve the key pillars by bringing in JOD when his right our defenders will probably be more daring as they should have more defensive trust.

- The improvement in the young players. Darcy/JUH are generational talents. As good as any prospects we have had. Sanders is a 200 game player. Gallagher is going to be a solid role player. JOD hasn?t played yet but is a talent. If we can nurse these guys through the year the team is going to be a lot better for it.

And with all these issues we got beaten by 4 points against the most professional side in the AFL while Jeremy Cameron put on a clinic.

If tonight teaches me anything it?s that we can compete and beat the best.

[angelopetraglia]

Scott.

We lost a lot of structure in the last quarter. They dominated us in the clearances. They have a few who get a lot of the ball where we spread it over 6-7 players. We thought it was even over the game though.

[angelopetraglia]

Landsberger

BIGGEST BOGEY IN FOOTBALL

Not sure what more Western Bulldogs can do to beat Geelong. It might be the biggest bogey in football. The Cats have won 22 out of their past 26 matches, and one of those four Bulldogs wins was a dead rubber for Geelong when it rolled over in the final game of last season. On Saturday night, Liam Jones gave Tom Hawkins a bath, Tom Liberatore and Marcus Bontempelli were the best two players on the ground, Adam Treloar wasn’t far behind, Taylor Duryea threw himself at everything and Rhylee West, Buku Khamis and Sam Darcy probably enjoyed career games. It was baffling that so many Bulldogs produced brilliant individual performances and still it seemed this game was on the Cats’ terms until they fatigued in the final quarter. ‘Libba’ had 28 contested possessions (equal fourth-highest of all time) and 19 clearances (equal third-highest of all time) while Jones and Khamis combined for 19 intercepts, for goodness sake. Chris Scott is now 11-3 against Luke Beveridge and the Cats are 4-0 for the first time since 2017. Wonder whether the Dogs seek clarification from the AFL over the score review that awarded Tyson Stengle a mark on the goalline in the third quarter when the soft call was a behind. It was a big overrule. The kicker is that the Dogs yet again have to travel to GMHBA Stadium later this year, which will make it nine trips in 10 seasons excluding 2020 (played in the Gold Coast hub).

[angelopetraglia]

Landsberger

WASTED FUNDS

The combined salaries of Caleb Daniel, Jack Macrae, Rory Lobb and James Harmes would total around $2.5 million. That is a lot of money to be spending on one game instead of four. Lobb and Harmes are in the VFL while on Saturday night Macrae and Daniel were substituted in and out respectively. The Dogs got 11 disposals out of Daniel and six out of Macrae. It is a huge chunk of the salary cap being spent for minimal impact on matches.

[angelopetraglia]

https://x.com/foxfooty/status/1776565697226711343?s=46&t=oMlyiNHry1lhUs8p7uzZ_A

1) Why was this reviewed? I thought only goals could be reviewed without an umpire request?

2) Is that enough evidence in two dimensional footage to overturn the goal umpires view in 3D at close quarters?

We seriously need answers from the AFL.

The margin is under a goal and we have this nonsense going on.

[kruder]

We only targeted Naughty twice inside 50 very similar to the game against Melbourne. Now that is one expensive decoy, are we getting the best out of him?

[Scorlibo]

https://x.com/foxfooty/status/1776565697226711343?s=46&t=oMlyiNHry1lhUs8p7uzZ_A

1) Why was this reviewed? I thought only goals could be reviewed without an umpire request?

2) Is that enough evidence in two dimensional footage to overturn the goal umpires view in 3D at close quarters?

We seriously need answers from the AFL.

The margin is under a goal and we have this nonsense going on.

On the 'when' of controlling the football for a mark - I think it's the point past when if an opponent effected a spoil the umpire would still pay a mark. Not the first moment the ball touches fingers. The ball is still spinning until a metre past the line for crying out loud!

Also wasn't aware that the ARC had the power to call themselves in for a review.

Would like to hear the AFL come out and say they got it wrong but we all know that won't happen.


We only targeted Naughty twice inside 50 very similar to the game against Melbourne. Now that is one expensive decoy, are we getting the best out of him?

Not sure if you'd quite call his role a decoy given he's having a lot of impact up the ground. It would be great if he could start having a larger scoreboard impact as well this season, but I'm happy with his overall impact. Jamarra on the other hand... been shocking for three weeks in a row now.

[Mantis]

Why VDM gets a game.

Total Sprints

VDM 37
Tuohy 27
Holmes 27
Dempsey 26
Stengle 25

Repeated Sprints

VDM 8
Stengle 5
Tuohy 4
Holmes 4
Miers 4

Where is the other running talent on our list?

If VDM is fit, he is playing. Every single week.

All that sprinting for no real impact? he?s missed his calling.

[ledge]

Nothing to do with the result but I like the moment Sanders rang the wrong way.
I remember Rodan doing it against us in Ballarat.
I did it in primary school, it’s an embarrassing moment that haunts you for life.
My question is in Sanders career, will it be a highlight or lowlight ?

[Danjul]

Why VDM gets a game.

Total Sprints

VDM 37
Tuohy 27
Holmes 27
Dempsey 26
Stengle 25

Repeated Sprints

VDM 8
Stengle 5
Tuohy 4
Holmes 4
Miers 4

Where is the other running talent on our list?

If VDM is fit, he is playing. Every single week.

Stengle less sprints but more goals. Same for Holmes and Dempsey. Sprints are not relevant. Scoring is. And VDM can?t because he is gassed from all the sprinting.

Our loss was not caused because of a lack of speed. It was due to a serious lack of linking. Poor entries into the forwards killed us.

[chef]

Richards, JUH, Baker, Jones, Johannison, Khamis and Dale played the whole game with 0 tackles combined. Williams, Duryea, Gallagher and English had 1 each. Thats pretty worrying.

Libba had 9 on his own.

[Danjul]

I hate honourable loss?, but I?m not upset with tonight.

We had some great players tonight, but I still see huge improvement in the team in a game we should have won.

- The defensive structure broke down at halfback 4-5 times tonight because one cog in the wheel got lost or was ball watching. These got punished by goals as Geelong are a good side. This is what happens with a new system. Bring this down to 1-2 by the end of the year and we are 3 goal better side.

- We have had some significant change in our list the last 12 months. I think we have a much deeper list than 2023. We won?t know our best mix until the second half of the year. If we can bank wins while solving some of the positional equations we are in a good spot.

- Forward line connection wasn?t good tonight (Probably wasn?t too bad until the last quarter). This has not been good since 2021 when Bruce was firing. So there are going to be big question marks on whether we can solve this problem. However I think they can get this right. I like Naughton playing up the ground and I love what Darcy can become. Probably missing quality half forwards and small forwards.

- Run off half back. We were really poor tonight running off half back compared with round 2 & 3. This was probably due to the forward weapons Geelong have in contrast to GC and West Coast. If we improve the key pillars by bringing in JOD when his right our defenders will probably be more daring as they should have more defensive trust.

- The improvement in the young players. Darcy/JUH are generational talents. As good as any prospects we have had. Sanders is a 200 game player. Gallagher is going to be a solid role player. JOD hasn?t played yet but is a talent. If we can nurse these guys through the year the team is going to be a lot better for it.

And with all these issues we got beaten by 4 points against the most professional side in the AFL while Jeremy Cameron put on a clinic.

If tonight teaches me anything it?s that we can compete and beat the best.
I saw the game quite differently. I saw a team that should have won but doesn?t know how to.

How could Cameron get 27 possessions? Because nobody tried to stop him. For much of the game he was left alone. He doesn?t try to take spectacular marks over a pack. He gets space on his side. Makes him a match winner. Why haven?t we got someone playing that way as a forward. Everything in our forward line is based upon a player outmarking seven others. Too one dimensional.

[Danjul]

Richards, JUH, Baker, Jones, Johannison, Khamis and Dale played the whole game with 0 tackles combined. Williams, Duryea, Gallagher and English had 1 each. Thats pretty worrying.

Libba had 9 on his own.
The whole point of Geelong?s game plan is to not get tackled. Get into the open, receive a relatively easy possession and move the ball forward to someone who is thinking the same way.

like speed, tackling is over rated outside of the ruck contests where the game is being restarted. There it is very important.

[whythelongface]

I saw the game quite differently. I saw a team that should have won but doesn?t know how to.

How could Cameron get 27 possessions? Because nobody tried to stop him. For much of the game he was left alone. He doesn?t try to take spectacular marks over a pack. He gets space on his side. Makes him a match winner. Why haven?t we got someone playing that way as a forward. Everything in our forward line is based upon a player outmarking seven others. Too one dimensional.

Agree that we are generally one dimensional although there was definitely some improvement last night eg Dale?s kick to leading Darcy. In saying that when we were chasing the game (towards the end) we did revert back to the one dimensional play of kicking it long - a couple of times there it nearly paid off with Bont and Naughton. We need to evolve and follow a different path.

I feel that Naughton can develop into a Cameron style of player. He is leading further up the ground, has good fitness and is mobile. It has only been in recent years that Cameron has really developed this part of his game. He showed signs at the Giants but was really their go to player. Having Hawkins has allowed him to develop into a CHF with endurance and the ability to roam the ground. With the emergence of Darcy plus Marra, Naughton can take on a similar role. We need to remember our key forwards are 24, 22 and 20 respectively in comparison to Cameron and Hawkins who are 31 and 34. Frustrating as it is to see us continually trying to take pack marks it is maturity, development and game sense that will make us play to our strengths in the future. We should take a lot from last night?s game and one of the key aspects should be how Cameron plays the game.

[Happy Days]

I missed the game but the stats would indicate we should’ve won.

So unlike us.

[Happy Days]

I saw the game quite differently. I saw a team that should have won but doesn?t know how to.

How could Cameron get 27 possessions? Because nobody tried to stop him. For much of the game he was left alone. He doesn?t try to take spectacular marks over a pack. He gets space on his side. Makes him a match winner. Why haven?t we got someone playing that way as a forward. Everything in our forward line is based upon a player outmarking seven others. Too one dimensional.

Can’t believe we didn’t think to try to stop Cameron. Are we stupid?

[angelopetraglia]

Can’t believe we didn’t think to try to stop Cameron. Are we stupid?

When Cameron is up and about like that how do you stop him? He is a hybrid midfielder/forward. He has had run of games where he has basically done what he has wanted.

Why didn?t they stop Bont? Of course they had plans.

It ain?t that easy. Elite players are hard to stop.

[Happy Days]

When Cameron is up and about like that how do you stop him? He is a hybrid midfielder/forward. He has had run of games where he has basically done what he has wanted.

Why didn?t they stop Bont? Of course they had plans.

It ain?t that easy. Elite players are hard to stop.

Reckon your sarcasm detector might be missing an aerial my man.

[angelopetraglia]

Reckon your sarcasm detector might be missing an aerial my man.

Was agreeing with you /)

[Happy Days]

Was agreeing with you /)

Wow Uno reversed. Congrats on agreeing with me and therefore being right though.

[whythelongface]

When Cameron is up and about like that how do you stop him? He is a hybrid midfielder/forward. He has had run of games where he has basically done what he has wanted.

Why didn?t they stop Bont? Of course they had plans.

It ain?t that easy. Elite players are hard to stop.

It is a genuine question- how do you stop Cameron? No one on our defensive list could run with him. You need a couple of players to stop him and then you free up others from their team. It ain’t easy. If it were then other teams would have been successful in nullifying his influence. Rarely happens.

[angelopetraglia]

It is a genuine question- how do you stop Cameron? No one on our defensive list could run with him. You need a couple of players to stop him and then you free up others from their team. It ain’t easy. If it were then other teams would have been successful in nullifying his influence. Rarely happens.

Cats’ coach Chris Scott said the quality of the Bulldogs’ intercept markers – Liam Jones and Buku Khamis – forced his match committee to think laterally about their forward set up. “We thought ... unless we are moving the ball really well, those [Bulldogs’ defenders] were going to be able to read it,” Scott said.

So they moved Cameron to the wing. That is why he is so hard to stop. If you stop him one way, he has another way to play the game.

[angelopetraglia]

Cameron going to the Wing is a bit like Bont going forward. Last week against the Eagles he goes forward and kicks three goals. The great players can play the game multiple ways.

[JanLorMill]

https://x.com/foxfooty/status/1776565697226711343?s=46&t=oMlyiNHry1lhUs8p7uzZ_A

1) Why was this reviewed? I thought only goals could be reviewed without an umpire request?

2) Is that enough evidence in two dimensional footage to overturn the goal umpires view in 3D at close quarters?

We seriously need answers from the AFL.

The margin is under a goal and we have this nonsense going on.
Agreed and sorry to go over this again.
As comrade mentioned we probably would have found a way to lose anyway. The guy from the ARC says the ball is controlled. If you pause the video of course it looks controlled! As you say they are also judging it from a 2d image behind a post which obviously makes the line appear wider where it was ?marked?. How can it be overuled on that evidence?

[angelopetraglia]

Agreed and sorry to go over this again.
As comrade mentioned we probably would have found a way to lose anyway. The guy from the ARC says the ball is controlled. If you pause the video of course it looks controlled! As you say they are also judging it from a 2d image behind a post which obviously makes the line appear wider where it was ?marked?. How can it be overuled on that evidence?

It is ridiculous and the AFL need to come out and say it needs to be black and white for it to be overruled. You can't overrule the umpire call with a call that is in anyway contenious.

The video review was brought in originally to stop howlers like when Hawkins kicked the ball into the post in the Grand Final and it was called a goal. Not to call back points that are 50/50 marked across the line.

[PR0408]

Understand pace. You can't teach speed. However fitness? Fitness you can improve with work can't you?
That?s the dumbest thing I have read on here. Of course you can increase your speed especially if you haven?t trained it.
Look on instagram on The speed project profile. Look at the players starting speeds and how much they increase after 6 weeks of training.

[angelopetraglia]

That?s the dumbest thing I have read on here. Of course you can increase your speed especially if you haven?t trained it.
Look on instagram on The speed project profile. Look at the players starting speeds and how much they increase after 6 weeks of training.

The dumbest thing you have read here. Now that is harsh.

Of course you can improve within your own spectrum. But speed is absolutely limited by your genetics. You think if Libba just did speed training and nothing else for two years he would even come close to the top end speed of JJ? Can you train to be explosive out of a stoppage like prime Judd or Cooney? No you can't.

You can not teach top end speed and that is why recruiters look for it and value it so highly. There are definiltey genetic influences on endurance too, but you can improve that relatively better than speed in what is required for AFL football.

[Happy Days]

Dumbest thing I ever read on here was people advocating to trade for Matthew Bate.

[Grantysghost]

Dumbest thing I ever read on here was people advocating to trade for Matthew Bate.

Oh could have had another redhead with Master Bates

[Go_Dogs]

I like Buku. There is a lot to work with. But his still not fit enough. He gets found out at ground level and misses easy tackles.

I think his defensive efforts will improve with more senior exposure. I think he will be a reliable league footy player in 12 months time if he gets the game time.

Agree. Good when he gets a run and jump at it, gets lost and looks very slow when he?s transitioning back from further upfield - opponents are just blowing past him as he runs in sand.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Yeah I'm unconvinced on Khamis.

Intercepting well, which is something we haven't had, but his passive defending and inability to be a physical presence / show the requisite intensity for the contest will hold him back

He's done well to improve this much though.

[mjp]

Yeah I'm unconvinced on Khamis.

Intercepting well, which is something we haven't had, but his passive defending and inability to be a physical presence / show the requisite intensity for the contest will hold him back

He's done well to improve this much though.

Did the lazy high tackle free kick in the last minute with the game on the line not convince you?

Be RELIABLE!!! So frustrating. I know criticising West is akin to shooting bambi but he had two really poor efforts on the camera side in the last couple of minutes as well...the contrast between Petracca's desperation to mark the footy near the boundary on Thursday night and Rhylee letting it go out of bounds last night was stark.

Any way. We can pull the last quarter apart contest by contest but that wasn't where it was lost...pretty sure we all know that happened when we conceded 4 out of 5 goals in q2. Just such a bummer as for large parts of the game we were the better side.

[bornadog]

happened when we conceded 4 out of 5 goals in q2. Just such a bummer as for large parts of the game we were the better side.

We both kicked 4 in the 2nd quarter

[kickit2Koly]

Dumbest thing I ever read on here was people advocating to trade for Matthew Bate.

who was the port Ruckmen we apparently offered a first round pick for? Thankfully they knocked it back.

that was worse, he was out of the league for years later.

[chef]

who was the port Ruckmen we apparently offered a first round pick for? Thankfully they knocked it back.

that was worse, he was out of the league for years later.

Lobbe.

[GVGjr]

who was the port Ruckmen we apparently offered a first round pick for? Thankfully they knocked it back.

that was worse, he was out of the league for years later.

Lobbe wasn't it?

[Happy Days]

who was the port Ruckmen we apparently offered a first round pick for? Thankfully they knocked it back.

that was worse, he was out of the league for years later.

Lobbe. We were so determined to burn that first, personally I would’ve just kept it and drafted Charlie Curnow.

[mjp]

We both kicked 4 in the 2nd quarter

I know. And Geelong kick 4-out-of-5 in one little period...

We kicked 2.
They kicked 2.
We kicked 1.
They kicked 2 more.

In the 3rd, they kicked 6 and we kicked 5.
We kicked 1, they kicked 3.
We kicked 1, they kicked ANOTHER 3.

We kicked 3 goals to 1 in the last q. The last q was NOT the problem. It was the goals leaked in little clusters during the 3rd q - and in particular the 2nd q - when we were on top.

[bornadog]

I know. And Geelong kick 4-out-of-5 in one little period...

We kicked 2.
They kicked 2.
We kicked 1.
They kicked 2 more.

In the 3rd, they kicked 6 and we kicked 5.
We kicked 1, they kicked 3.
We kicked 1, they kicked ANOTHER 3.

We kicked 3 goals to 1 in the last q. The last q was NOT the problem. It was the goals leaked in little clusters during the 3rd q - and in particular the 2nd q - when we were on top.

ok, that explains what you meant.

I think where we lost it was in the second half of the last quarter, when for 5 or more minutes, there were no scores and they denied us the ball, by chipping it around and wasting time. Those 5 minutes were vital to the outcome.

[jazzadogs]

ok, that explains what you meant.

I think where we lost it was in the second half of the last quarter, when for 5 or more minutes, there were no scores and they denied us the ball, by chipping it around and wasting time. Those 5 minutes were vital to the outcome.

I agree with mjp that we lost it earlier in the game when they built the lead. The back to back Stengle goals late in the third which made the lead 28 points were the killers for me...even though we fought hard and finished the quarter with Bont and West goals, we had let them get too far ahead.

[bornadog]

I agree with mjp that we lost it earlier in the game when they built the lead. The back to back Stengle goals late in the third which made the lead 28 points were the killers for me...even though we fought hard and finished the quarter with Bont and West goals, we had let them get too far ahead.

Can't disagree, but we were coming home like a train and with about 13 min to go and only a couple of goals in it, Geelong changed the tempo of the game and stopped our momentum for around 5 or more minutes where neither side scored. The clock ran down and we ran out of time. We should of course never had been behind by 28 points.

[merantau]

There's been quite a lot of comment about Daniel's performance. Last week I commented that he should never be out of the side. He's gone from truffles to tripe in a week. What is his role? He is too good a footballer to be allowed to fall between the gaps.

[Uninformed]

I know. And Geelong kick 4-out-of-5 in one little period...

We kicked 2.
They kicked 2.
We kicked 1.
They kicked 2 more.

In the 3rd, they kicked 6 and we kicked 5.
We kicked 1, they kicked 3.
We kicked 1, they kicked ANOTHER 3.

We kicked 3 goals to 1 in the last q. The last q was NOT the problem. It was the goals leaked in little clusters during the 3rd q - and in particular the 2nd q - when we were on top.

The thing I think hurt us in the last quarter was Geelong using up the clock by holding possession. Is there a way to break that up more quickly?

[Uninformed]

ok, that explains what you meant.

I think where we lost it was in the second half of the last quarter, when for 5 or more minutes, there were no scores and they denied us the ball, by chipping it around and wasting time. Those 5 minutes were vital to the outcome.

Just saw this. How do you stop it though?

[Uninformed]

There's been quite a lot of comment about Daniel's performance. Last week I commented that he should never be out of the side. He's gone from truffles to tripe in a week. What is his role? He is too good a footballer to be allowed to fall between the gaps.

He was almost unrecognisable to the great competitor we have come to know. It may be my eyesight but I though I saw him fumble, a very slight fumble, but something I have never seen him do before.

Hopefully just an off night for him, although he did seem lacking in confidence too.

[angelopetraglia]

Interesting from Robbo in The Tackle. We are good at winning clearances. We are ranked #6 in the comp for clearance differential. We are not so good at defending the turnover.

Defence is King

It?s now a trend at Carlton. The Blues have lost the clearance battle in every game this year. They are the 17th worst team in clearance differential. And Geelong is 18th in clearance differential. Yet, those teams are 4-0 and have a brand that many consider to be top four worthy. While those numbers are an issue, their point of difference at Carlton and Geelong is their defence. Geelong and Carlton are No. 1 and No. 2 for defending turnover, which means that when they lose the ball they are able to defend it strongly. Coaches often tell us the turnover game is the most important factor, and to further that point, all 10 of the past premiers have been ranked in top six for points conceded from turnover. The Blues and Cats are the standouts in that profile.

[bornadog]

Just saw this. How do you stop it though?

Go man to man

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Interesting from Robbo in The Tackle. We are good at winning clearances. We are not so good at defending the turnover.

Defence is King

It?s now a trend at Carlton. The Blues have lost the clearance battle in every game this year. They are the 17th worst team in clearance differential. And Geelong is 18th in clearance differential. Yet, those teams are 4-0 and have a brand that many consider to be top four worthy. While those numbers are an issue, their point of difference at Carlton and Geelong is their defence. Geelong and Carlton are No. 1 and No. 2 for defending turnover, which means that when they lose the ball they are able to defend it strongly. Coaches often tell us the turnover game is the most important factor, and to further that point, all 10 of the past premiers have been ranked in top six for points conceded from turnover. The Blues and Cats are the standouts in that profile.

We've been horrible at defending the turnover our entire time under Bevo post 2016.

[MrMahatma]

Interesting from Robbo in The Tackle. We are good at winning clearances. We are ranked #6 in the comp for clearance differential. We are not so good at defending the turnover.

Defence is King

It?s now a trend at Carlton. The Blues have lost the clearance battle in every game this year. They are the 17th worst team in clearance differential. And Geelong is 18th in clearance differential. Yet, those teams are 4-0 and have a brand that many consider to be top four worthy. While those numbers are an issue, their point of difference at Carlton and Geelong is their defence. Geelong and Carlton are No. 1 and No. 2 for defending turnover, which means that when they lose the ball they are able to defend it strongly. Coaches often tell us the turnover game is the most important factor, and to further that point, all 10 of the past premiers have been ranked in top six for points conceded from turnover. The Blues and Cats are the standouts in that profile.

Wouldn’t being the 17th worst make them the 2nd best?

[Grantysghost]

Did the lazy high tackle free kick in the last minute with the game on the line not convince you?

Be RELIABLE!!! So frustrating. I know criticising West is akin to shooting bambi but he had two really poor efforts on the camera side in the last couple of minutes as well...the contrast between Petracca's desperation to mark the footy near the boundary on Thursday night and Rhylee letting it go out of bounds last night was stark.

Any way. We can pull the last quarter apart contest by contest but that wasn't where it was lost...pretty sure we all know that happened when we conceded 4 out of 5 goals in q2. Just such a bummer as for large parts of the game we were the better side.
Was it Buku or Dale...?

[Uninformed]

Go man to man


Any thoughts on why we didn't do that?

[jeemak]

Any thoughts on why we didn't do that?

Probably worried that going man on man we get exposed by individual defficiencies and an overall talent deficit.

[Uninformed]

Probably worried that going man on man we get exposed by individual defficiencies and an overall talent deficit.

Man on man seems the only way though, unless there is a systematic positioning method, but it seems hard to think what would work.

[comrade]

Interesting from Robbo in The Tackle. We are good at winning clearances. We are ranked #6 in the comp for clearance differential. We are not so good at defending the turnover.

Defence is King

It?s now a trend at Carlton. The Blues have lost the clearance battle in every game this year. They are the 17th worst team in clearance differential. And Geelong is 18th in clearance differential. Yet, those teams are 4-0 and have a brand that many consider to be top four worthy. While those numbers are an issue, their point of difference at Carlton and Geelong is their defence. Geelong and Carlton are No. 1 and No. 2 for defending turnover, which means that when they lose the ball they are able to defend it strongly. Coaches often tell us the turnover game is the most important factor, and to further that point, all 10 of the past premiers have been ranked in top six for points conceded from turnover. The Blues and Cats are the standouts in that profile.

Ewww, I agree with Robbo.

Our defensive group is so brittle (besides Jones) made even worse by our ability to defend the ground higher up (starting with the forward group).

Would it be a stretch to suggest we?re close to a bottom 4 side without Liam Jones.

[bornadog]

Ewww, I agree with Robbo.

Our defensive group is so brittle (besides Jones) made even worse by our ability to defend the ground higher up (starting with the forward group).

Would it be a stretch to suggest we?re close to a bottom 4 side without Liam Jones.

You can look at our defence in a different way. We have the 5th least kicked against us.

[Grantysghost]

Ewww, I agree with Robbo.

Our defensive group is so brittle (besides Jones) made even worse by our ability to defend the ground higher up (starting with the forward group).

Would it be a stretch to suggest we?re close to a bottom 4 side without Liam Jones.

Clearance stats aren't as much an indicator of success as they once were. Turnover and defensive transition. Melbourne lose clearance they dont care they force dirty ball and trust their brilliant defence to create attacking avenues.

[mjp]

I like how we're suddenly holding up Carlton as a paragon of how to defend. They've won by 1 point after being 8-goals down, 5-points, 10-goals (vs North) and now because the umpires cheated.

Apart from the Melbourne game we've probably been better than they have...

[azabob]

I like how we're suddenly holding up Carlton as a paragon of how to defend. They've won by 1 point after being 8-goals down, 5-points, 10-goals (vs North) and now because the umpires cheated.

Apart from the Melbourne game we've probably been better than they have...

Coupled with their "belief" they can win from anywhere.

The hype around Carlton this week will be fever pitch.

[bornadog]

https://youtu.be/u03A2FRjr0w