3 things learned from Rd 4 vs Geelong 2024

[GVGjr]

Please list the 3 things learned from our R4 encounter against Geelong

[GVGjr]

Bump

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

1. As heartbreaking losses go, this is one of the more pleasant ones. I feel we can build off this one.
2. Buku is still raw, but he's also now got some elite traits as well.
3. West will play every game this season. It's taken a long time, but he's almost an established best 22 now.

[Mofra]

1. West's transformation into Clay Smith mk2 is complete.

2. We can match it with the best, but we need to find a way to win. Geelong controlled the corridor tonight which meant we had to fight a lot harder to make the same gains.

3. Sometimes you can play well and still lose. Football sucks like that.

[Bullies]

1. I think having Garcia as sub would have made a difference tonight. In and under at the contest and would have given us some more run when we needed it at the end.

2. Naughton needs to play like he did on the last 10 minutes for the entire game. He makes such a difference when he does.

3. Buku is improving but still needs to learn to play on key position players. Henry and Cameron were able to turn him inside out on a few occasions but he still backed himself.

[westbulldog]

1. Sam Darcy with an extra 8kg will be a force in the AFL.
2. Tom Liberatore is so amazingly strong in the clinches he could win a greco-roman gold in Paris.
3. Chris Scott's barber should be de-registered.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

1. I think having Garcia as sub would have made a difference tonight. In and under at the contest and would have given us some more run when we needed it at the end.

2. Naughton needs to play like he did on the last 10 minutes for the entire game. He makes such a difference when he does.

3. Buku is improving but still needs to learn to play on key position players. Henry and Cameron were able to turn him inside out on a few occasions but he still backed himself.

Maybe, but I actually thought it was a great chance for Macrae to step up and show he still belongs in the CB's... he got the opportunity, and he was largely ineffectual. I worry for Jack. He's been amazing, but it does look like he's got some work to do to find a new role or a new club I feel.

[Bullies]

Maybe, but I actually thought it was a great chance for Macrae to step up and show he still belongs in the CB's... he got the opportunity, and he was largely ineffectual. I worry for Jack. He's been amazing, but it does look like he's got some work to do to find a new role or a new club I feel. Jack was never going to put any pace on the game unfortunately. Garcia with his bash and crash at stoppages and pace on the spread would have been handy in the last.

Like you i think the game has just so quick that guys like Macrae and Daniel will struggle to play every game. Could be horses for courses roles.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

1. We need to forget about past reputations. Daniel should be in the VFL and Macrae has his challenges.

2. Some of the young pups continue to show signs. Gallagher, Darcy, Sanders and to a lesser extent Khamis. Need to keep blooding new talent.

3. Dale needs a new position. He can't defend and his rebound game isn't what it used to be. Wing or half forward for me.

[Bullies]

1. We need to forget about past reputations. Daniel should be in the VFL and Macrae has his challenges.

2. Some of the young pups continue to show signs. Gallagher, Darcy, Sanders and to a lesser extent Khamis. Need to keep blooding new talent.

3. Dale needs a new position. He can't defend and his rebound game isn't what it used to be. Wing or half forward for me. I'd like to see Bailey Dale on the wing. Has he size and pace to play the role. Needs to be removed from the back line as he is becoming a liability. Just seems to have his lost run and his confidence in his disposal.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I kind of feel like another thing I've learned is that we don't necessarily need to be tall down back to play well against tall forward lines. We just need to be confident we limit their access to speedy football.

[hujsh]

I kind of feel like another thing I've learned is that we don't necessarily need to be tall down back to play well against tall forward lines. We just need to be confident we limit their access to speedy football.

Is it fair to say our defensive system gets a big tick so far? We've actually got an intercept game now.

[bornadog]

1, No Liam Jones and we would be stuffed.

2. Finally learnt we don't just lie down and take it.

3. We had 9 players with less than 50 games - is this a new mini rebuild?

[angelopetraglia]

1, No Liam Jones and we would be stuffed.

2. Finally learnt we don't just lie down and take it.

3. We had 9 players with less than 50 games - is this a new mini rebuild?

We had 9. Geelong had 3.

But not too much in average age and games. The difference was 50-100 games. Dogs 1 V Cats 6.

Dogs 26yr5mth V Cats 27yr2mth. Dogs 111 games avg. Cats 132 games avg.

[GVGjr]

1 - We are far fitter than 12 months back.
2 - Geelong are better than I thought
3 - Liam Jones is critical to the teams success, I sort of knew that but tonight's effort confirmed it.

[angelopetraglia]

1 - We are far fitter than 12 months back.
2 - Geelong are better than I thought
3 - Liam Jones is critical to the teams success, I sort of knew that but tonight's effort confirmed it.

What do we put this down to? New fitness coach?

[GVGjr]

What do we put this down to? New fitness coach?

New fitness coach is a positive
Training at the Whitten Oval over the summer is far better for the list than 12 months back
Fewer injuries is a factor as well.

[Mantis]

1/ Hack kicks out of the clearance will be the death of me.

2/ We still have too players who get lost in (defensive) transition and our defenders can?t deal with clean ball.

3/ We have several players on long term contracts who are/ look cooked. I guess contracts aren?t worth as much these days, but we are going to have to pay most of their wages if we move them on and lots of money being spent for little return.

[AshMac]

1. A flattering scoreline earnt through individual brilliance which masks being beaten by all the old problems with our team system. Tonight was the test for me on whether we?ve addressed the issues and we failed.

2. Our players outplayed them, their coaching system out coached us

3. The score review/Stengel goal would be labelled ?the difference? if it happened to the pies or tigers - doubt we?ll hear much at all about it this week

[westdog54]

1. I already knew Libba was a beast, but that was something else. Just incredible.
2. The AFL fantasy system undervalues Intercept marks. Neither Buku nor Jones topped 50 points yet they were absolutely immense.
3. Bring that effort and endeavour next week and we flatten Essendon.

Bonus Geelong edition: Gryan Miers doesn't waste a kick and his gut running is Bailey Smith level.

[AshMac]

Bonus Geelong edition: Gryan Miers doesn't waste a kick and his gut running is Bailey Smith level.


He really was outstanding. His ability to find a target and hit them on the chest. I noticed as the game went on his efficiency by foot deteriorated - but he just opens up the game so much

[Grantysghost]

1. The gap in footy iq between us and the best teams hasn't closed. Dumb decisions cost us constantly.

2. The father son gods really are smiling on us. Has Bont produced an heir yet?

3. Geelong play a low energy dependable brand, same as Melbourne. They all buy in they all play their role and they invariably have success.
If the Cats had the output from their stars we had I think they would have won comfortably.

[1eyedog]

1. 8 point game which will come back to bite us later in the season. If you think the real difference was only a few points you're kidding yourselves. It was a Geelong game for most of the night. They were effortless moving the ball forward while we scrapped and fought. Our endeavour was good but our skills were actually pretty terrible.

2. Naughton has been running around like a headless chook since 2022.

3. We leaked at least 5 goals because we could not / did not secure the ball in a contest. Duryea and Williams are the only two players who consistently do this well most of our players just panic, Libba being the exception. Concerning that our best medium defender is 33 in a few weeks. Duryea has been outstanding.

[Sedat]

1. A flattering scoreline earnt through individual brilliance which masks being beaten by all the old problems with our team system. Tonight was the test for me on whether we?ve addressed the issues and we failed.

2. Our players outplayed them, their coaching system out coached us

3. The score review/Stengel goal would be labelled ?the difference? if it happened to the pies or tigers - doubt we?ll hear much at all about it this week
Agree with your first 2 points but not the 3rd - Collingwood still haven't shut up about Wayne Harmes 45 years ago and Anthony Rocca in 2002, nor Richmond about Tom Lynch review against Brisbane a couple of years ago.

It was sobering to once again see us get absolute maximum output from our top end players but still always look off the pace last night against a methodical, professional, much more even outfit. I do think we are closing the gap against the very best though, and have made strides in changing our game plan both when we have the ball and when we don't - we lose that game by 5+ goals in 2022-2023. We are still prone to hack kicking it out of a stoppage - our clearance numbers are skewed because they are generally dirty clearances that the best teams structure up behind the ball to intercept, whereas the opposition get very clean and dangerous looks from their clearances against us (no better example that 2021 GF, but insert about a dozen games since then).

We are definitely growing our intercept marking game - there is a shift. But we are still behind the likes of Geelong and Melbourne who have a very well-established and robust defensive intercept game.

I suspect we are itching to get the likes of JOD and Freijah into the senior team as soon as they are bashing the door down. Ditto Arty and Clarke in the front half.

[Grantysghost]

Re the goal review. It was wrong (couldn't tell for sure).
Williams also shoved Blicavs in the back for our last goal so there's no point worrying about umpires. It evens out.

[Topdog]

1. It is possible for Tom Stewart to not be best on ground.
2. See 1
3. See 2

[Bullies]

He really was outstanding. His ability to find a target and hit them on the chest. I noticed as the game went on his efficiency by foot deteriorated - but he just opens up the game so much Agree. If Cats make a play for Bailey we should trump it and offer Miers a contract. Our forwards would love that kindd of delivery.

[ratsmac]

Re the goal review. It was wrong (couldn't tell for sure).
Williams also shoved Blicavs in the back for our last goal so there's no point worrying about umpires. It evens out.

True but I'm happy to get away with the Williams push because Hawkins has made a career out of doing that in gets praise for being too big and strong. That stat will never even out

[ratsmac]

I'd like to see Bailey Dale on the wing. Has he size and pace to play the role. Needs to be removed from the back line as he is becoming a liability. Just seems to have his lost run and his confidence in his disposal.

I'm surprised we haven't tried this already. He has been treading water across half back for a while. He does seem to have all the attributes to be a good wingman skill wise but does he have the tank? It would be a similar role as how he plays off half back but with more connection with our forwards. I like it

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Sam Darcy is ready to improve our side.
Rhylee West is ready to improve our side.
Harvey Gallagher is ready to improve our side.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Ryley Sanders is ready to improve our side.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Moreover, Sanders and West have similar builds, strong short legs and big hips, great for balance and changing direction a la Leigh Matthews and good for breaking and landing tackles and negotiating traffic.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Buku too will improve us now.
Backed his judgement against the best marking forward line and won with Liam.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I'd use Buku as a swing man, great goal kicker too but we won't.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Naughton was ok but can do a lot better.

[Rocket Science]

Naughton's such a fearsome athlete but after seven years in the system might still well be the most agricultural footballer in the comp.

Unless he's taught better forward craft and prepared to work smarter not harder to evolve his game we're basically looking at the finished product which makes me worry we're overpaying for a decoy forward with one trick who's too easily curbed.

We need more impact, more regularly beyond laying the odd tackle.

[mighty_west]

1. Hopefully Liam Jones has another 6 years in him like Lobb.

2. Too many passengers, our depth is supposed to be good now, but is it really? Do we get enough out of our bottom 6? and if not, do the next best 6 knocking the door down make that difference?

3. Weightman and West are good small forwards, but we still need a sneaky crumbing type and we have one developing, i've been against playing Charlie until he's really ready and banging the door down like Darcy did, like Garcia is and like Lobb is doing but perhaps it's time to unleash the little beast and give us a spark up forward.

[Critter]

1. I can't help but feel we contributed to this loss at team selection. Cameron roamed free, up hill and down dale, while his nominal opponent stayed back to play the interceptor role. When the opposition has a gun key forward such as Cameron, we need to respect his ability and assign a defender to stand him. JOD should have been selected with the brief to run with Cameron all day and negate him as best he could.

Buku is an interceptor. His ground skills and tackling skills are very shaky, particularly the latter. That telling free kick he gave away demonstrates this. He's a third-tall defender, no more.

Better yet, why not play Naughton where he belongs? At CHB. Leave JUH as the main lead-up forward and have a mix of Darcy, English & Lobb share the ruck and deep forward role. (It would have been nice to have Lobb to relieve Tim when Stanley once again took him to school and had the Cats midfielders exiting from the front of the centre bounce.)

2. Our entry into the forward line isn't improving. Too many long, loopy kicks to clusters of players. We now have a kicking coach, how about we get a forward coach who understands leading patterns and forward structure. Let's train leading patterns, creating space, feinting and kicking hard and low to dangerous positions. How about we aim to kick 3 or 4 four straight forward simple goals per game.

3. A defence strategy that includes abandoning your structure to allow defenders to push up deep, regardless of the positioning of their opponent, is fraught with risk. If there is a turnover, the opposition forwards have a clear path to goal. And if one of them is Gryan Miers you will pay. We did.

[AshMac]

Agree with your first 2 points but not the 3rd - Collingwood still haven't shut up about Wayne Harmes 45 years ago and Anthony Rocca in 2002, nor Richmond about Tom Lynch review against Brisbane a couple of years ago.

It was sobering to once again see us get absolute maximum output from our top end players but still always look off the pace last night against a methodical, professional, much more even outfit. I do think we are closing the gap against the very best though, and have made strides in changing our game plan both when we have the ball and when we don't - we lose that game by 5+ goals in 2022-2023. We are still prone to hack kicking it out of a stoppage - our clearance numbers are skewed because they are generally dirty clearances that the best teams structure up behind the ball to intercept, whereas the opposition get very clean and dangerous looks from their clearances against us (no better example that 2021 GF, but insert about a dozen games since then).

We are definitely growing our intercept marking game - there is a shift. But we are still behind the likes of Geelong and Melbourne who have a very well-established and robust defensive intercept game.

I suspect we are itching to get the likes of JOD and Freijah into the senior team as soon as they are bashing the door down. Ditto Arty and Clarke in the front half.

Which point are you arguing? Doesn?t read the Stengle mark

[AshMac]

Sam Darcy is ready to improve our side.
Rhylee West is ready to improve our side.
Harvey Gallagher is ready to improve our side.

I cannot wait for the game where westy puts a show on for all 4 quarters. It?s coming - he is so smart.

Loved the note about his brother Levi looking like a good player for his age. The idea of 2 west boys mirroring the Daicos boys is an exciting prospect - albeit it entirely speculative at this stage

[Jeanette54]

Kingy consistently on Fox Footy says "don't be beaten by what you know". Well Jeremy Cameron was instrumental in our defeat, which was discussed ad-nauseum before the game. And yet we just allowed him to run riot. There didn't seem to be a plan for him, or a suitable selected opponent.

So often we seem to be hamstrung by selection process and a lack of forethought.

Also we need a defensive forward coach, someone to teach forwards that it is their responsibility to stop the opposition spring boarding attacks from their defensive 50. Just as a midfielder must learn to run both ways, so do our forwards.

[1eyedog]

1. Hopefully Liam Jones has another 6 years in him like Lobb.

2. Too many passengers, our depth is supposed to be good now, but is it really? Do we get enough out of our bottom 6? and if not, do the next best 6 knocking the door down make that difference?

3. Weightman and West are good small forwards, but we still need a sneaky crumbing type and we have one developing, i've been against playing Charlie until he's really ready and banging the door down like Darcy did, like Garcia is and like Lobb is doing but perhaps it's time to unleash the little beast and give us a spark up forward.

Where is the double like button.

[1eyedog]

I kinda maybe sorta think that Naughton is a better back than forward. Kinda. Well at least against a top 6 team. When we are being flat track bulies he should play forward but against decent opposition he needs to go back.

[Grantysghost]

I kinda maybe sorta think that Naughton is a better back than forward. Kinda. Well at least against a top 6 team. When we are being flat track bulies he should play forward but against decent opposition he needs to go back.

You've always been an astute poster 1ED.

[AshMac]

I kinda maybe sorta think that Naughton is a better back than forward. Kinda. Well at least against a top 6 team. When we are being flat track bulies he should play forward but against decent opposition he needs to go back.

This is lunacy! We have no one else on our list that can play as a tall forward.

[Bullies]

I cannot wait for the game where westy puts a show on for all 4 quarters. It?s coming - he is so smart.

Loved the note about his brother Levi looking like a good player for his age. The idea of 2 west boys mirroring the Daicos boys is an exciting prospect - albeit it entirely speculative at this stage Isn't the young Darcy boy also dominating in the Juniors? Did he not win the B & F and still have a year to go in his age group.

[Bullies]

I kinda maybe sorta think that Naughton is a better back than forward. Kinda. Well at least against a top 6 team. When we are being flat track bulies he should play forward but against decent opposition he needs to go back. You could not play both he and Buku down back. Neither can play on an opponent as they don't have the defensive skills.

Marra also gets the number 1 defender.

[Sedat]

Which point are you arguing? Doesn?t read the Stengle mark
My bad, I misread your post

[D Mitchell]

This is lunacy! We have no one else on our list that can play as a tall forward.
I agree that, played as a deep forward, Naughton's by far the best tall. He looks to be playing more between the arcs than as a deep forward. Perhaps if he turns 'round to face the goals and starts closer to the defensive arc it'd be much the same. The multiple goalscorers are Weightman, Bont, Darcy, even Baker, implementation of the 3 talls strategy has changed.

[AshMac]

Isn't the young Darcy boy also dominating in the Juniors? Did he not win the B & F and still have a year to go in his age group.

Got to be careful not to get excited. 2 Darcy and 2 west boys all in good form would be very nice.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Got to be careful not to get excited. 2 Darcy and 2 west boys all in good form would be very nice.

Lachie Hunter played 100 with us, great footy genes with McVie lineage haha.

[jeemak]

Anyone wondering why Naughton shouldn't be a key defender only needs to look how he uses the ball by foot in open play while playing up the ground.

It isn't great and slows us down. And I don't know whether his ego is in check enough to hand it off rather than kicking it to the extent he should.

[JanLorMill]

Anyone wondering why Naughton shouldn't be a key defender only needs to look how he uses the ball by foot in open play while playing up the ground.

It isn't great and slows us down. And I don't know whether his ego is in check enough to hand it off rather than kicking it to the extent he should.
Jones isn?t great either. Khamis as well. We had Gardner playing there not long ago that?s worse than all of them.

[jeemak]

Jones isn?t great either. Khamis as well. We had Gardner playing there not long ago that?s worse than all of them.

On Saturday night we left Jones hung out to dry a few times when the risk of a kick to the pocket should have been taken to give a better user a chance to find someone or change the angle*.


*Jones marking centrally and having to find a wide outlet left him too much ground to kick into, and too much margin for error. Getting that slow ball wide opens up the shorts/ laterals or means a narrow kick down the line is more likely to be rushed for a reset.

[Dry Rot]

1. Darcy will be a very good player (haven't seen much of him before)

2. West is now a very good player

3. There is something consistently very wrong with our centre clearances.

[jeemak]

1. Darcy will be a very good player (haven't seen much of him before)

2. West is now a very good player

3. There is something consistently very wrong with our centre clearances.

All of our main three players in the centre are see-ball get-ball players. No matter what. No sensitivity to how it might get behind them and out the front.

Second of the ridiculous 2021 game that didn't happen centre bounce shitshow extravaganza was Libba still chasing it forward when a clear front outlet for the opposition was happening. He does it all the time, they all do something similar every time and a lot of the time they win the ball. It's just that when the opposition wins the ball they have better options around them - or at least more committed ones.

It's just how we are, and while we all know we've got a pace problem with all of our potential/ active centre bounce players, none of them have a strong defensive side to their games. Haven't had for ages, and I'm not sure if it's by design or a product of our recruiting.

[azabob]

It's just how we are, and while we all know we've got a pace problem with all of our potential/ active centre bounce players, none of them have a strong defensive side to their games. Haven't had for ages, and I'm not sure if it's by design or a product of our recruiting.

If it is a recruitment issue it would be hard for those recruits to push out Bontempelli, Liberatore and Treloar - who is our point of difference pace wise and he fell into our lap and we felt obligated to take him.

Maybe they see Sanders and Gallagher as those players.

Makes you wonder why we chased James Harmes in the end.

[EasternWest]

Makes you wonder why we chased James Harmes in the end.

To trigger Happy Days

[azabob]

To trigger Happy Days

And don’t we love it so.

[jeemak]

If it is a recruitment issue it would be hard for those recruits to push out Bontempelli, Liberatore and Treloar - who is our point of difference pace wise and he fell into our lap and we felt obligated to take him.

Maybe they see Sanders and Gallagher as those players.

Makes you wonder why we chased James Harmes in the end.

By recruiting I didn't necessarily mean recruitment as planned, more so as executed. We rolled a dice on taking Treloar and possibly thought Smith mightn't have had a shit year or two of interruptions after smashing a finals series in 2021 - and then doing a knee.

Honestly, Smith having his hiccups and then doing a knee has been a massive spanner in the works and all the Riley Sanders, Harmes or Gallaghers or anyone else being brought in wasn't going to fix up that disruption.

Smith should be taking the game by the scruff at this point based on his start with us and his early development thereafter.