Bulldogs V Hawks - Round 8, 5/5/24 Marvel Stadium 4:00PM AEST

[lemmon]

If we're honest, he's been pretty poor this year. Disappointing.

Yep, I'd play Busslinger next week.

[jazzadogs]

If we're honest, he's been pretty poor this year. Disappointing.

mjp was right

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

This isn't a whinge. Why do our forwards not earn many free's for holding? Is it a by product of our shit delivery to them, and lack of one on one marking contests?

[jazzadogs]

Yep, I'd play Busslinger next week.

Who do you bring in for Buku though?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

This isn't a whinge. Why do our forwards not earn many free's for holding? Is it a by product of our shit delivery to them, and lack of one on one marking contests?

You can't really be held when you never lead.

[chef]

Who do you bring in for Buku though?

Keath.

[jazzadogs]

This isn't a whinge. Why do our forwards not earn many free's for holding? Is it a by product of our shit delivery to them, and lack of one on one marking contests?

Marra getting pulled to the ground a good example.

[Testekill]

This isn't a whinge. Why do our forwards not earn many free's for holding? Is it a by product of our shit delivery to them, and lack of one on one marking contests?

We don't carry on and make a big show of it like other teams.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Truck!!!!!!!

[jazzadogs]

We would need to defy all expectations to win this.

Consistently shown we don't have the mettle for this sort of situation.

[EasternWest]

Geez I don't want to pot Jones but WTF

[DOG GOD]

That’s 10 goals from turnovers

[comrade]

We?re the anti-Collingwood.

[1eyedog]

We're going to lose

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Game up for gravs right now.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I.e. up for grabs.

[chef]

Haha the wizard

[jeemak]

Is that the most typical Aaron Naughton I want to be the hero play you've ever seen?

Why he wouldn't get it back over to Jacko on the inside is beyond me.

[Scraggers]

Oskar Baker is going to take over Dylan Addison’s moniker … Oskar F….ing Baker. Jeeeezus

[DOG GOD]

Even Sicily with 1 arm can outmark Khamis one on one. Oh dear.

[EasternWest]

What a beautiful irony that the death knell will come because Buku was beaten 1 on 1 deep.

[jazzadogs]

How many times do we weakly cough the ball up in the contest??? Could just trap it and kill it but we pop out a shit little handball straight to the opposition. Kills me.

[chef]

We are probably better off losing this anyway, winning after an effort like this wouldn't do us any good.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Gone, we're gone!

[jeemak]

Libba FFS.

[ledge]

I believe we have the players I believe the message is now not working with our coach .. stale.

[EasternWest]

How many times do we weakly cough the ball up in the contest??? Could just trap it and kill it but we pop out a shit little handball straight to the opposition. Kills me.

Also why don't our players ever talk? Our marks are more often than not spoiled by two of our players going for it.

[jeemak]

How was Richard's kick then.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I really don't want to win.

[EasternWest]

How was Richard's kick then.

A thing of beauty.

[Topdog]

It's always Bont

[Topdog]

JUH goes bang, on the full

[bulldogtragic]

Exactly.

[1eyedog]

Missing everything from 50 in front is inexcusable.

[1eyedog]

Wow. OK.

[jeemak]

That's disgraceful.

Can't see how Beveridge survives this. He needs to be put out of his misery, as this group of players will just continue to torture him. And us.

Someone else needs to come in and rip them apart.

[bulldogtragic]

Insert excuses here:

[1eyedog]

That's disgraceful.

Can't see how Beveridge survives this.

Survive he will. There are no consequences.

[kruder]

Fingers crossed for Libba.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Something is rotten iin the football state of Footscray Footbal Reb7bl8c.
Rot can be removed by 8ncision, removal of the ror.

[EasternWest]

Insert excuses here:

"if we could just [insert improvement here that we've never managed despite it being spoke about all the time] we'll be ok"

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Sack him and anyone that wants him to stay.

[angelopetraglia]

This football club is lost. Absolutely lost. Can?t win a close game. Can?t beat cellar dwellers. Hit the front in the last with all the momentum and still can?t win.

Lost. Devoid of confidence or ideas.

[jazzadogs]

I still worry about how much we gain from sacking Bevo and promoting one of our assistants (how different is the message really going to be?!?), but it's hard to argue that the players don't need something different.

Also not convinced a new coach will teach them to hit 20m kicks consistently.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I still worry about how much we gain from sacking Bevo and promoting one of our assistants (how different is the message really going to be?!?), but it's hard to argue that the players don't need something different.

Also not convinced a new coach will teach them to hit 20m kicks consistently.

They won't.

The list needs gutting.

But it all starts with him first.

[Mofra]

I still worry about how much we gain from sacking Bevo and promoting one of our assistants (how different is the message really going to be?!?), but it's hard to argue that the players don't need something different.

Also not convinced a new coach will teach them to hit 20m kicks consistently.
The group lacks that 'something' that Beveridge gave the group in 2015. Espirit de Corps. There was just the odd contest where the first contest was lost, and the desperation to impact the second contest just wasn't there.
It's a group-wide malaise

[Topdog]

Another week another shit result.

[Topdog]

1 win (vs North), 6 losses. No problem, here comes Dr Bulldog to help.

[kruder]

Jones, Duryea and Treloar all showed their age in the last. Get Garcia in the guts Bevo FFS!!!!!

What review is next? We have changed structure off field, new assistants um now what?

[BornInDroopSt'54]

It was mentioned in the broadcast he had offers of up to 11 years!


Something is rotten iin the football state of Footscray Footbal Republic.
Rot can be removed by incision, removal of the rot.
We need better leadership in the coaching.
Bont and Libba elite on field leaders.
Bevo has lost my loyalty by results, self evident.
A sad day in our history.
The players do not want enough, we need a rocket or new coaches or a new players' psych.

[angelopetraglia]

9 games in a row we have loaf a game by single digits.

[bulldogtragic]

Nice to know we can beat up poor teams. If only we could play them 23 times a season plus finals.


Extremely early crow there


I?m assuming they won?t shit the bed today?.

My fault for believing we are at worst flat track bullies?

[jazzadogs]

The group lacks that 'something' that Beveridge gave the group in 2015. Espirit de Corps. There was just the odd contest where the first contest was lost, and the desperation to impact the second contest just wasn't there.
It's a group-wide malaise

We also miss the cracking in foundations that BMac gave the young players.

We were losing, but BMac (along with Boyd and Morris) made sure they gave a shit.

These guys don't seem to care.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Well at least we only had to sit through 7 rounds of garbage football before we knew the season was done.

So long 2024. Thanks for not wasting anymore of my time.

[macca]

When we hit the front , and the ball went fwd , the first player tonight was Hawks player. I kind thought , our players dont want it enough.

JUH body language has been poor. He needs to work into space more and stop running into other forwards.

[angelopetraglia]

In the last quarter how many important 50/50 balls or stoppage clearances or important ground balls did we lose and lose really badly?

That was the game. We got beaten and they were either out the front of the stoppage in space or we lose a really bad 50/50 like Sicily/Buku on the wing. Also, whenever a ball got somewhere into space we were outnumbered.

What a mess.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

We also miss the cracking in foundations that BMac gave the young players.

We were losing, but BMac (along with Boyd and Morris) made sure they gave a shit.

These guys don't seem to care.
Bring back B. Mac.and cracking in.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Bevo is like O'Bama, 'yes we can', all family and self empowerment.
We need Martin Luther King, evangelist of our right to show our greatness.
We nedd a different leader.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

We also miss the cracking in foundations that BMac gave the young players.

We were losing, but BMac (along with Boyd and Morris) made sure they gave a shit.

These guys don't seem to care.


Bevo is like O'Bama, 'yes we can', all family and self empowerment.
We need Martin Luther King, evangelist of our right to show our greatness.
We nedd a different leader.
And a different culture no less.

[jazzadogs]

Bevo is like O'Bama, 'yes we can', all family and self empowerment.
We need Martin Luther King, evangelist of our right to show our greatness.
We nedd a different leader.

We need Trump. Melbourne are the Capitol and we need to incite a riot.

[EasternWest]

We need Trump. Melbourne are the Capitol and we need to incite a riot.

https://i.postimg.cc/BvCJtBCX/a2acaf17-9404-42ef-80ed-8f0b89c5da23-text.gif (https://postimages.org/)

[angelopetraglia]

I was at the ground and I lost count.

How many times did a butchered, horrific kick coming out of our D50 directly cost us a goal?

Two in the third. JJ to English in the last. Jones bad decision in the last.

Not coming out of D50 but the Charlie Clarke grabber on the wing resulted in another direct goal.

How many others? We gifted them goals. You can?t be competitive against anyone doing that.

[jazzadogs]

I was at the ground and I lost count.

How many times did a butchered, horrific kick coming out of our D50 directly cost us a goal?

Two in the third. JJ to English in the last. Jones bad decision in the last.

Not coming out of D50 but the Charlie Clarke grabber on the wing resulted in another direct goal.

How many others? We gifted them goals. You can?t be competitive against anyone doing that.

At 3 quarter time we had given up 46 points from turnovers. Definitely added to that in the last quarter.

[angelopetraglia]

At 3 quarter time we had given up 46 points from turnovers. Definitely added to that in the last quarter.

Without looking at the stats, we gave up more in the last quarter.

We could not force turnovers or make Hawthorn even down the line coming out of D50. How classy were they coming out of D50?

That?s surely game plan. We allow the second worst team in the comp to basically walk the ball out. Get behind us into space how many times?

[comrade]

We really need to take some lessons from Collingwood. They were close to rock bottom, a laughing stock for their list mismanagement, the racism issues etc yet they were able to completely turn it around and quickly. The time for inaction has passed, the entire club needs to be shaken up and new blood needs to come in and take over.

[angelopetraglia]

We won the clearances 44-28!!!!!

Belted them but watching it live it didn?t feel like that. When we lose clearances they are inevitably put the front and into space.

We did win some good centre clearances that resulted in goals.

But it also highlight our structure and systems are a mess.

[angelopetraglia]

We outscored them from clearances by 45 points. Our best result since 2021.

But we were outscored by 52 points from intercept possessions. Our worst result since 2018.

[angelopetraglia]

They just waited for us to cough it up and punish us.

Under a closed roof in perfect conditions, how do you explain so many blatant turnovers?

[bulldogtragic]

They just waited for us to cough it up and punish us.

Under a closed roof in perfect conditions, how do you explain so many blatant turnovers?

We are not a good football team. We don?t have enough good footballers. Our skills are shit and development kills players futures and coaching won?t helping.

[merantau]

That was a terrible performance - a non-performance.
It would have been totally unjustified if we had snatched a win at the end.

[josie]

Melbourne Victory won in an amazing match - went to penalty shootout and goalkeeper Izzo a hero. Just thought I?d mention it for those who support Victory (even if just a tad), so your weekend end ends in a sweet note despite all the doom & gloom for we loyal woofers.

Hope our doggies can salvage some from the season. C?mon boys, dig deep.

[macca]

We really need to take some lessons from Collingwood. They were close to rock bottom, a laughing stock for their list mismanagement, the racism issues etc yet they were able to completely turn it around and quickly. The time for inaction has passed, the entire club needs to be shaken up and new blood needs to come in and take over.

They even managed to find room for negating forward in Frampton, and a player who could not find a spot on our list in Lipinski!

[jazzadogs]

They even managed to find room for negating forward in Frampton, and a player who could not find a spot on our list in Lipinski!

It's literally just an updated Bulldogs 2016 with Cordy/Frampton and Biggs/Lipinski.

As a club, we have been through worse. But can we find someone as magical as Bevo to get us out again?

[angelopetraglia]

Melbourne Victory won in an amazing match - went to penalty shootout and goalkeeper Izzo a hero. Just thought I?d mention it for those who support Victory (even if just a tad), so your weekend end ends in a sweet note despite all the doom & gloom for we loyal woofers.

Hope our doggies can salvage some from the season. C?mon boys, dig deep.

Yes. Melbourne Victory member. I chose to the Bulldogs game over the Victory game. Ha.

[Bullies]

When we hit the front , and the ball went fwd , the first player tonit was hawks player. I kind thought , our players dont wamt it enough.

JUH body language has been poor. He neexs to work into space more and stop running into other forwards. I think Marra needs to decide if he wants to be there. I watched him closely and he wasn't interested. At one stage English kicked a goal and every forward went to him except Marra. As you said he wasn't interested in working himself into the game. If things don't go his way the toys are out the cot.

[angelopetraglia]

1:33 left on the clock when Marra takes his kick. The mark is inside 50m. Small to zero angle. He hits the behind post. How?

Even after a poor day, we had moments we could have seized yet didn't show up when it counted.

[Eastdog]

We just are not that good and that was proven with that performance tonight against a very ordinary side at the moment in the Hawks.

We aren?t going far this year and need a change to the senior coach and also get serious about trading some players out who are not up to it.

Love Bevo for what he did in 2016 and I?ll be forever grateful for the greatest day in our supporting lives but since then it hasn?t been that good except for the 2021 season making a GF which I believe got him that new contract.

Not confident now next week going to the G playing the Tigers but will probably win.

[macca]

If Hawks had kicked straight, the should have won by 5 goals. They are an ordinary side, and we just made them look better tonight.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Marra has escaped criticism this year. He's been putrid.

Selfish, lazy and the only consistency in his game is his ability to blow opportunities.

He needs to be challenged.

[josie]

I?m with you Eastdog. So much at stake next week.

[angelopetraglia]

Bevo

Tonight we could not move the ball from our backend. That's the game. Up until two weeks ago we had given up the least score in the competition from the defensive area from our ground. Tonight we turned it over 24 times and Hawthorn score 8.4 which is world record scores. Some were so blatant we could not defend them.

(Bevo spot on. 100% where we lost the game.)

[macca]

Connor McDonald kicked 3 goals tonight. Where has he come from ?

He was on their rookie list a few years ago. He is clealry talented enough to play in this team.

What is wrong with our player development?
This kid has come from nowhere and has outscored JUH today.

[angelopetraglia]

Bevo

Why the fluctuation again? That is what we are working on to iron it out. To maintain momentum or stop it when there is spike against us.

[angelopetraglia]

Bevo

We are still optimistic we can win more than we lose. It was only a few weeks ago that we were coming at Geelong. We need to say the course and search for our next win.

[angelopetraglia]

Bevo

The morale is OK. They boys took a hit when Baz went down. But we are pretty healthy. We are undefeated at state level. There are some pretty good signs there. But the blend in our team of youth and experience isn't too bad. We are not executing well enough. The outcome at the moment is that we can't win the close ones.

[jazzadogs]

Connor McDonald kicked 3 goals tonight. Where has he come from ?

He was on their rookie list a few years ago. He is clealry talented enough to play in this team.

What is wrong with our player development?
This kid has come from nowhere and has outscored JUH today.

He was pick 26 in the 2021 draft. Same draft we got Darcy, Arty and Cleary.

[macca]

Bevo

Why the fluctuation again? That is what we are working on to iron it out. To maintain momentum or stop it when there is spike against us.

Is Caleb Daniel out, not helping with the kick out accuracy?

Or we don't have enough marking talls to present at half-back on the 50 m arc ?

We really struggled tonight to win it on the 50 m opposition arc. Maybe give it a year for Darcy grow in strength to be that option.

Our wingman don't offer this option.

[angelopetraglia]

Bevo

The competition is tight. You only have to blatantly turn over the ball like we did tonight and you are vulnerable.

[angelopetraglia]

Bevo

We gave up too many easy ones. We didn't have enough delay on turnover. The boys hung in there but the damage was done prior to hitting the lead.

[azabob]

Bevo

The morale is OK. They boys took a hit when Baz went down. But we are pretty healthy. We are undefeated at state level. There are some pretty good signs there. But the blend in our team of youth and experience isn't too bad. We are not executing well enough. The outcome at the moment is that we can't win the close ones.

Supporters morale is not.

[angelopetraglia]

Bevo

I'm not going to hang JJ out to dry, there were a handful of other really telling ones that cost us as much as that one. It is a real shame, as we persevered when we were not playing well. We hit the front. But credit to Hawthorn, they came again.

[angelopetraglia]

Bevo

We didn't get beaten by what we knew. We curbed Newcombes influence with McCrae. We made sure Amon didn't have the influence across half back. We saw Ginnivan as a danger and we took care of him.

So we took care of a lot of things we planned for. But we didn't plan for 24 back half tunovers and giving up 8.4 from them and that is the game. Forward half turnovers is how every club wants to play and we give them credit but there was a lot that were blatant skill errors.

[bulldogtragic]

I don’t want to hear it anymore.

[jazzadogs]

Bevo

The morale is OK. They boys took a hit when Baz went down. But we are pretty healthy. We are undefeated at state level. There are some pretty good signs there. But the blend in our team of youth and experience isn't too bad. We are not executing well enough. The outcome at the moment is that we can't win the close ones.

In December last year?!??!!?!!!!! Why is that still relevant to morale?!?!?

[angelopetraglia]

In December last year?!??!!?!!!!! Why is that still relevant to morale?!?!?

He said morale isn't an issue.

[jazzadogs]

He is spot on that turnovers cost us. Our skills and decisions were horrible. But why??

With JJs kick in...why is English leading at him for a 20m short pass? He should be 70m out creating a contest.

Our structure and workrate ahead of the ball is really really bad, gives our defenders/mids nothing to kick to, and leads to rushed decisions and poor kicks.

[angelopetraglia]

You can be critical on Bevo for many things. Many things.

But one thing I think he always does really well, is articulate where we won or lost the game. His analysis of how and why we lost tonight was 100% spot on.

[angelopetraglia]

Sicily had a busted shoulder and also had an ankle that was stuffed. He told Mitchell he can't play back. He goes forward and still wins telling 1:1s which win them the game in the last quarter.

Buku was completely lost trying to defend him too.

[merantau]

In December last year?!??!!?!!!!! Why is that still relevant to morale?!?!?

Yep. What's next? The boys took it pretty hard when the coffee machine was out of action for a couple of weeks in early February

[G-Mo77]

Just got home. Not disappointed, we didn't even deserve to be that close. Just a very ordinary team which is very poorly coached and selected.

Felt sorry for Clarke today. I wouldn't have subbed him, I would have let him play through all the errors. Hopefully he can recover from that.

[Dogs 24/7]

Are there any stats type figures available for things like GPS numbers? We had a couple today that seemed to be going through the motions.

[Eastdog]

Was speaking to Prince Imperial at half time and we were saying how poor our defensive pressure without the ball was in that 2nd quarter.

Lots of players who are just not in for the contest.

I wonder how we rank overall this season for defensive pressure without ball. Would be on the lower end.

[angelopetraglia]

Are there any stats type figures available for things like GPS numbers? We had a couple today that seemed to be going through the motions.

The AFL only give us the top 5 best. They don't give us anything else I'm sure to protect players, probably fair enough, could you imagine the pile on.

But for distance covered. The top five were all Hawthorn! For the distance covered at high speed, four of the top five were Hawthorn!

For overal distance covered, they covered 11km extra. They also covered 4 additional KM at high speed.

In one point of difference, we won the sprints stat for a change. 282 v 257. Repeat sprints we won 22 v 21.

[Pottz]

?[I?m] always confident in decision-making on where you place your influence to evolve into the future and be a team and be a list full of players who can challenge up ahead. We have to find out. We can?t sit on our hands,? Beveridge said.

Anyone have any idea what on earth Bevo is trying to say with this word salad?

[SquirrelGrip]

?[I?m] always confident in decision-making on where you place your influence to evolve into the future and be a team and be a list full of players who can challenge up ahead. We have to find out. We can?t sit on our hands,? Beveridge said.

Anyone have any idea what on earth Bevo is trying to say with this word salad?

Yes he’s saying he’s not afraid to make the hard decisions and make changes.

[angelopetraglia]

Treloar

It fills like at the moment when we are games, even last week against Freo were a goal down with 10 to play, it just feels like when we are in games we don't finish it off. We are not connecting well at the end of games which is dissapointing as I feel like we are leaving a lot out there.

The boys are working extremly hard at the moment. We trained well. We are trying to get better. There is a want to get better. The dissapointing thing is that our connection is off at the moment, whether that is going inside F50 or coming out of our D50.

[jeemak]

He is spot on that turnovers cost us. Our skills and decisions were horrible. But why??

With JJs kick in...why is English leading at him for a 20m short pass? He should be 70m out creating a contest.

Our structure and workrate ahead of the ball is really really bad, gives our defenders/mids nothing to kick to, and leads to rushed decisions and poor kicks.

Because 70m out is where the taller players who can spoil English's marking are expecting him to be, with shorter players closer to goal to grab the loose ball.

If you hit up English thirty metres in front of the taller players he's more likely to retain possession and you can then run off him, go wide or go inboard.

The key is not kicking it to his ankles.

[angelopetraglia]

Robbo

THE HEAT IS ON THE DOGS.

There’s a debate in the NBA at the moment, particularly about the LA Lakers, about whether the manager/coach is to blame or is it the players. It’s a much trickier answer in the AFL. The Bulldogs lost to Hawthorn on Sunday which basically means at 3-5 the finals are out the equation. Please, now, can people accept the Bulldogs are not a great team. Luke Beveridge will feel the heat, but is it the coaches fault that Jason Johannisen missed targets by foot, why the key forwards flew against each other, why Ed Richards make mistakes, why Ugle-Hagan kicked 2.1 and a crucial kick out of bounds at the death, and why Riley Garcia dropped a simple ball in the third quarter when the Bulldogs were on the burst? And why Marcus Bontempelli sat on the bench for seven minutes late in the final quarter? The Bulldogs had 22 clanger kicks to Hawthorn’s 13, so that was nine direct turnovers to the Hawks. That’s all Beveridge’s fault? Perhaps the players can accept responsibility.

[angelopetraglia]

Losing the tackle count this afternoon 71-59 really is not accetpable.

[bornadog]

We conceded 68 points from Turnovers with 24 turnovers in the defensive half. This is not a coaching issue, this is from skill errors.

The skills on display today were pathetic to say the least. JJ 5, Jones 4, Dale 7 and Treloar 10 turnovers.

[jeemak]

We conceded 68 points from Turnovers with 24 turnovers in the defensive half. This is not a coaching issue, this is from skill errors.

The skills on display today were pathetic to say the least. JJ 5, Jones 4, Dale 7 and Treloar 10 turnovers.

Also not getting the ball into Duryea's hands often enough hurt as well. Richards playing in defence instead of up the ground may not have helped in this area either, given his use at times today.

I think while it's difficult to tell watching on TV, we'll acknowledge not having the running and positioning of West and Weightman today may have hurt us. Bringing Ed up and having Garcia and Clarke in those roles, which are bloody tough to fulfill in the modern game without practice, wasn't enough to compensate for their absence.

[angelopetraglia]

Interesting from James Bartel here on Ground Ball Gets. Also Lethal makes sense as always. It was Bont's second highest rated game ever tonight.

https://x.com/FootyonNine/status/1787098498069893218

[bornadog]

Also not getting the ball into Duryea's hands often enough hurt as well. Richards playing in defence instead of up the ground may not have helped in this area either, given his use at times today.

I think while it's difficult to tell watching on TV, we'll acknowledge not having the running and positioning of West and Weightman today may have hurt us. Bringing Ed up and having Garcia and Clarke in those roles, which are bloody tough to fulfill in the modern game without practice, wasn't enough to compensate for their absence.

Duryea had a shocker today

[angelopetraglia]

Duryea had a shocker today

Yes. He had a lot of friends.

[jeemak]

Interesting from James Bartel here on Ground Ball Gets. Also Lethal makes sense as always. It was Bont's second highest rated game ever tonight.

https://x.com/FootyonNine/status/1787098498069893218

There's a poster around here who has been questioning effort (which really helps in winning the ground ball) relentlessly, and on-field leadership.

This particular poster has been kicking into Matthews quite a bit over the years so I suspect he feels a bit conflicted at the moment.

[jeemak]

Duryea had a shocker today

Get the ball into his hands, bring him into the game. I mean he looks really bad when he's playing badly, but really good at times with his use and decision making and safe when we need safety.

[angelopetraglia]

First quarter. It was win the centre clearance or die.

Hawthorn was able to turn the tide in the first term due to the ball movement from their defensive half. The Hawks turned six chains from their defensive half into six forward-50 entries and converted them into 2.1 (13) - while the Dogs could not muster a single point from a defensive-half chain.

Second quarter. Again. We can't move the ball from our D50.

The Dogs' clearance domination was muted in the second term, and they were unable to raise their ball movement to make up for it. From 20 defensive-half ball movement chains, the Dogs only entered forward-50 five times - and only scored a measly 0.2 (2) from these forays forward.

The Hawks brought the game onto their terms in the second quarter, leading contested possessions by 11, tackles by six and inside-50s by four for the term. All three of their second-term goals came from intercept possessions, extending their intercept possession differential to 25 over the Dogs.

Third quarter They make us pay again for defensive half blunders and some incredible goals to make us pay.

Lloyd Meek extended his ruck dominance in the third term, leading hitouts 13-4 over Tim English; however, the Hawks could still only manage two behinds from stoppages for the term. Despite this, two goals from intercept possessions in the third term helped them to keep their slender lead.

Both those third quarter goals to the Hawks were absolute belters on the run and from range. One snap and one banana.

Fourth quarter Dominate clearances again, but can't stop the flow of intercept goals.

The Dogs will rue this loss, having dominated from stoppages throughout the match. The Dogs outscored the Hawks by 45 points from stoppages - their fourth-best total since the start of 2021, and their best in two years. However, they scored 52 points fewer than the Hawks from intercept possessions - their worst differential since Round 16, 2018 - and this proved the difference in the end.

In a battle of two diametrically opposed teams, the intercept possessions win the day, as the Hawks hold on for a seven-point upset. The Hawks outscored the Dogs by 52 points from intercept possessions - their highest differential since Round 10, 2023, and their second-highest differential since the start of 2021.

[Dry Rot]

Unfortunately or perhaps fortunately I had commitments all afternoon and could not watch the game.

I've been reading through this thread, trying to figure out what went wrong and how we lost to the third last team.

Would it be accurate to say that turnovers in our back half was the main reason, or were we just crap across the ground?

I saw a replay of the first hit on Libba. Why on earth was he allowed to return to the field after that?

[josie]

Hi Dry Rot - I agree regarding Libba - did they not see the hit? I?m very concerned for his wellbeing. I realise now I am way more upset about that than losing the game, whether Bevo stays or goes, whether we make the 8, etc.

I digress but having watched 3/4 & start of 4th qtr of VFL game today it is scary watching our game up close - you can hear and see the hits and near hits way more vividly.

It just puts the game into perspective for me.

Back to your Q; I think it was mainly turnovers in back half (based on what Bevo & others are saying), but my gut feel says we were not running or tackling or crashing packs as hard as we should be either. Not sure what stats tell us and I haven?t read articles woofers have provided with links to articles analysing game.

[jeemak]

Great post Josie.

[azabob]

There's a poster around here who has been questioning effort (which really helps in winning the ground ball) relentlessly, and on-field leadership.

This particular poster has been kicking into Matthews quite a bit over the years so I suspect he feels a bit conflicted at the moment.

Name names jeemak, name names.

[Bullies]

Sicily had a busted shoulder and also had an ankle that was stuffed. He told Mitchell he can't play back. He goes forward and still wins telling 1:1s which win them the game in the last quarter.

Buku was completely lost trying to defend him too. Again and again opposition sides play through whoever is on Buku. He gets turned inside out and has no touch. He should not be learning how to defend on the AFL. He needs to learn in the AFL. We wasted a year playing him forward n the VFL last year.

[whythelongface]

Unfortunately or perhaps fortunately I had commitments all afternoon and could not watch the game.

I've been reading through this thread, trying to figure out what went wrong and how we lost to the third last team.

Would it be accurate to say that turnovers in our back half was the main reason, or were we just crap across the ground?

I saw a replay of the first hit on Libba. Why on earth was he allowed to return to the field after that?


Same. First game I hadn’t watched for awhile. Had son’s cricket presentation and he decided to look at the score to put me out of my misery. Thankfully the disappointment was tempered by the fact he received a couple of ‘spirit of cricket’ awards.

[bornadog]

Name names jeemak, name names.

Pretty hard to name yourself :D

[azabob]

Pretty hard to name yourself :D

I think we are underestimating jeemak!!

[Hotdog60]

Unfortunately or perhaps fortunately I had commitments all afternoon and could not watch the game.

I've been reading through this thread, trying to figure out what went wrong and how we lost to the third last team.

Would it be accurate to say that turnovers in our back half was the main reason, or were we just crap across the ground?

I saw a replay of the first hit on Libba. Why on earth was he allowed to return to the field after that?

Libba looks sounds and looks concussed even when he's not concussed maybe the Docs need a new diagnosis plan just for Libba. :)

[ledge]

Just watched Bevo and that last bit was pretty scary about are you all on the same page . Abrupt ? yes mate?
He is feeling it?s going to be a huge pile on and needs to turn it around pronto to keep his job.

[merantau]

I rarely look at replays but I've just had a forensic look at Hawthorn's 2nd goal kicked by Meek after a free kick for what I assume was a touch on his right shoulder as an out of position Bont was making a late effort to spoil. (Not his fault btw.)

The build up. After a good break away from defence and a pacy run and side step, Garcia hands off to Clarke who was unable to reach Naughton with a kick and instead hit SHJS (you know who I'm referring to) on the chest.

Hawthorn then chip it around for eight uncontested marks until it lands in the hands of Ward about 65 - 70mts out maybe 25 mts off centre.

Buku is on Meek who is calling for the ball. Bont is nearby. English is on his own 10-15 meters away. Ward kicks towards Meek. English immediately begins to move across to affect the contest. He is closer to the likely drop of the ball at this stage than Meek and has both arms almost horizontal as he intersects the line that Meek is coming from. In a trice Meek has brushed past him, seemingly with no body contact at all and Tim is behind him looking as if he is about to overbalance and fall backwards. Meanwhile Bont makes a desperate lunge and catches Meek tangentially across the right shoulder. Free kick, goal.

The obvious question. Why was Buku on Meek? Why, when there was ample time to set up, and the skipper was right there, was that allowed to happen?
Victory has many fathers but defeat is an orphan. It's about time players started putting their hands up. No coach ever kicked a goal. We had few good players and played dumb football. Hawthorn should have won by 4-5 goals.

[The bulldog tragician]

I rarely look at replays but I've just had a forensic look at Hawthorn's 2nd goal kicked by Meek after a free kick for what I assume was a touch on his right shoulder as an out of position Bont was making a late effort to spoil. (Not his fault btw.)

The build up. After a good break away from defence and a pacy run and side step, Garcia hands off to Clarke who was unable to reach Naughton with a kick and instead hit SHJS (you know who I'm referring to) on the chest.

Hawthorn then chip it around for eight uncontested marks until it lands in the hands of Ward about 65 - 70mts out maybe 25 mts off centre.

Buku is on Meek who is calling for the ball. Bont is nearby. English is on his own 10-15 meters away. Ward kicks towards Meek. English immediately begins to move across to affect the contest. He is closer to the likely drop of the ball at this stage than Meek and has both arms almost horizontal as he intersects the line that Meek is coming from. In a trice Meek has brushed past him, seemingly with no body contact at all and Tim is behind him looking as if he is about to overbalance and fall backwards. Meanwhile Bont makes a desperate lunge and catches Meek tangentially across the right shoulder. Free kick, goal.

The obvious question. Why was Buku on Meek? Why, when there was ample time to set up, and the skipper was right there, was that allowed to happen?
Victory has many fathers but defeat is an orphan. It's about time players started putting their hands up. No coach ever kicked a goal. We had few good players and played dumb football. Hawthorn should have won by 4-5 goals.

That happened several times. Kudos to you for looking at it again in detail.

The isolation of Buku was a big problem v Freo yet we allowed it to happen again with seemingly no counter strategy.

The “dumb footy” and fragility in close games seem to be talked about as if the mental side of footy is only on the players though. We look very confused in our game style, while techniques and mindset in close games can be instilled in the players surely. When Collingwood narrowly missed the GF in 2022 Craig Macrae told them not to be slumped on the ground like losers because that’s not what they are. And of course their record in close games is known to be trained for and practised again and again. (We beat Collingwood by 48 points in round 9 that year).

[Bullies]

That happened several times. Kudos to you for looking at it again in detail.

The isolation of Buku was a big problem v Freo yet we allowed it to happen again with seemingly no counter strategy.

The “dumb footy” and fragility in close games seem to be talked about as if the mental side of footy is only on the players though. We look very confused in our game style, while techniques and mindset in close games can be instilled in the players surely. When Collingwood narrowly missed the GF in 2022 Craig Macrae told them not to be slumped on the ground like losers because that’s not what they are. And of course their record in close games is known to be trained for and practised again and again. (We beat Collingwood by 48 points in round 9 that year). Geelong did it to Buku as well as did Freo. They all play through whoever is on Buku. They know he lacks awareness and touch on his opponents.

[merantau]

I've just taken a look at Hawthorn's 3rd and 4th goal.
THIRD GOAL
Williams shoots for goal and hits the post. From the kick in Treloar is outmarked by Day. Treloar is too slow getting up so Day is able to run about 10 mts off him and drive the ball long to where it is marked by Moore about 52mts out. JJ was standing 5 mts in front of Moore. Had he been shoulder to shoulder with him he would have been able to contest.
When Moore kicks the ball to Dear we have FIVE PLAYERS FORWARD OF THE BALL. Dear, Dale and Durea are the only 3 players near the drop zone but Dale is about 7mt away from Dear and Duryea is 10 mts off him. Dear marks unopposed and Dale and Duryea stand pointing at each other.
FOURTH GOAL
This one is just a complete train wreck. From the bounce the English outpoints Meek and taps to Treloar. He gathers and handballs quickly to Macrae who handballs to English who then, under little pressure delivers a handball to Williams' feet, and immediately ends up on the ground himself, bundled over by Newcomb. Meanwhile Williams, who's done well to gather the errant handball cleanly, is under pressure because the handball was so poor. Newcomb corals him. Williams, instead of passing backwards to Jones who is on his own 20mts away calling for the ball, turns inwards but Newcomb presdures him into delivering a despairing handball to English who has regained his feet just in time to tackle Newcomb.who has gathered Williams' 'hand ball in hope' The ball spills free to McGinness who passes to Gunston on the boundary 52mts out.

Meanwhile Meek has run down to the goal line. From the time Gunston took the mark to the time he kicked the ball on the 50mt line, 22 seconds elapsed. When Gunson kicks English is standing 40mts out at a 45? angle with hands on hips watching him.
The ball comes in, We have Bont, Khamis and Duryea in the goal squre and JJ. Meek on the goal line outbodies Bont, taps it back infield to an unmarked Ward front and centre. He snaps and goals. Hawks in front.

We hear a lot about the great tank English has. It looked like he was running on empty at times during this game.
.
JJ Duryea Dale Williams English and Treloar all played roles in us giving up those rwo goals.

[merantau]

I've just taken a look at Hawthorn's 3rd and 4th goal.
THIRD GOAL
Williams shoots for goal and hits the post. From the kick in Treloar is outmarked by Day. Treloar is too slow getting up so Day is able to run about 10 mts off him and drive the ball long to where it is marked by Moore about 52mts out. JJ was standing 5 mts in front of Moore. Had he been shoulder to shoulder with him he would have been able to contest.
When Moore kicks the ball to Dear we have FIVE PLAYERS FORWARD OF THE BALL. Dear, Dale and Durea are the only 3 players near the drop zone but Dale is about 7mt away from Dear and Duryea is 10 mts off him. Dear marks unopposed and Dale and Duryea stand pointing at each other.
FOURTH GOAL
This one is just a complete train wreck. From the bounce the English outpoints Meek and taps to Treloar. He gathers and handballs quickly to Macrae who handballs to English who then, under little pressure delivers a handball to Williams' feet, and immediately ends up on the ground himself, bundled over by Newcomb. Meanwhile Williams, who's done well to gather the errant handball cleanly, is under pressure because the handball was so poor. Newcomb corals him. Williams, instead of passing backwards to Jones who is on his own 20mts away calling for the ball, turns inwards but Newcomb presdures him into delivering a despairing handball to English who has regained his feet just in time to tackle Newcomb.who has gathered Williams' 'hand ball in hope' The ball spills free to McGinness who passes to Gunston on the boundary 52mts out.

Meanwhile Meek has run down to the goal line. From the time Gunston took the mark to the time he kicked the ball on the 50mt line, 22 seconds elapsed. When Gunson kicks English is standing 40mts out at a 45? angle with hands on hips watching him.
The ball comes in, We have Bont, Khamis and Duryea in the goal squre and JJ. Meek on the goal line outbodies Bont, taps it back infield to an unmarked Ward front and centre. He snaps and goals. Hawks in front.

We hear a lot about the great tank English has. It looked like he was running on empty at times during this game.
.
JJ Duryea Dale Williams English and Treloar all played roles in us giving up those two goals.