Lake and Wight

[Prince Imperial]

Just some random thoughts tonight about these guys. I've always had Rick Kennedy as the best Bulldogs full back that I have seen, but I reckon Lake has gone past him. Terrific mark, a Charlie Sutton medalist. The most important player in our side.

Wight, I have been very critical of, but his game tonight was very good. 17 disposals, a goal, many good spoils and no obvious errors. Tom Williams will have to play well for Willi to get into the side. Our depth in the backline is suddenly looking strong.

[hujsh]

And the positive of injuries shows it's face again.

1st choice goes out.

2nd choice steps up

2nd becomes good enough to be 1st

1st comes back

2 good players all of a sudden.

(in this case Williams is 1st and Wight is 2nd)

[Go_Dogs]

Agree with the consensus of this thread. Wight has shown a lot to start the year off - still makes the occasional blunder, but I doubt Williams or Everitt would have acquitted themselves any better. His ability to run hard forward and snag a goal is very important - and pleasing.

Lake has been great, starting to wind himself into some terrific form, much like he did for the majority of last year. Really holds the defence together and is developing into a great leader of the backline. Still not perfect, but his consistency is pretty bloody good these days and his marking and reading of the play continues to set a very high standard.

[GVGjr]

Lake was terrific last night with his marking and after a slow start to the season is working into his 2007 type form. Wight has been interesting, his form has been inconsistent but every now and then he shows you something that makes you think he might not be far away from being a permanent fixture in the team. I am still not convinced that he will make it as a defender especially when Williams, Everitt and perhaps McDougall are fit and available but I know the club were keen to try him as a forward and he might be given some opportunities there.
The jury might still be out on Wight but he has probably turned back the discussion of him being replaced by Skipper as a defender for a few weeks.

[mjp]

(in this case Williams is 1st and Wight is 2nd)

What exactly has Williams ever done to earn such exalted status at our club? His 13 games (5 kicks, 5 handballs, 5 marks, 1 tackle) - and those are the numbers - seem to become more highly thought of with every passing week.

And I am not meaning to single out your comments hujsh - I am just tired of reading about the return of Williams - who really is nothing more than a 'kid with potential' (with apologies to Laurie Holden).

[Go_Dogs]

What exactly has Williams ever done to earn such exalted status at our club? His 13 games (5 kicks, 5 handballs, 5 marks, 1 tackle) - and those are the numbers - seem to become more highly thought of with every passing week.

And I am not meaning to single out your comments hujsh - I am just tired of reading about the return of Williams - who really is nothing more than a 'kid with potential' (with apologies to Laurie Holden).

Exactly right mjp regarding the Williams over-hype, but don't you get the feeling at the same time that had Williams been fit, he would've been persisted with ahead of Wight for the role, and that now Wight has moved ahead through his good work while Williams has been out injured?

I don't think Hujsh was trying to make the point that Williams is our out and out gun CHB, merely that he was probably ahead of Wight in the coaches pecking order and now that might not be the case.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Lake = Henderson >>>Kennedy >>> Croft >>>


>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

Tony Campbell

[1eyedog]

What exactly has Williams ever done to earn such exalted status at our club? His 13 games (5 kicks, 5 handballs, 5 marks, 1 tackle) - and those are the numbers - seem to become more highly thought of with every passing week.

And I am not meaning to single out your comments hujsh - I am just tired of reading about the return of Williams - who really is nothing more than a 'kid with potential' (with apologies to Laurie Holden).

Dunno, in those games though he gave me the impression of poise, calmness and clean decision making. All his disposal were clean and he looked creative too. Often this speaks volumes to me and I reckon with half a dozen games under his belt he will become permanent down back. He is rated very highly for a reason.

[LostDoggy]

What exactly has Williams ever done to earn such exalted status at our club? His 13 games (5 kicks, 5 handballs, 5 marks, 1 tackle) - and those are the numbers - seem to become more highly thought of with every passing week.

And I am not meaning to single out your comments hujsh - I am just tired of reading about the return of Williams - who really is nothing more than a 'kid with potential' (with apologies to Laurie Holden).

I agree with you MJP. He is obviously highly regarded by the club for potential however we need to see him actually become a player.

[soupman]

I think the main difference between Wight and Williams and the main reason Williams is rated higher by our supporters is that when Williams gets the ball he inspires confidence that he is going to use it well, while when Wight gets it most people sort of cringe and take the viewpoint that if he doesn't turn it over its alright, regardless of whether hes kicking to a lead or kicking backwards to Lake.

On the matter of disposal though, do you find that when most players stuff up by getting holding the ball against them or screwing up a pass into the forwardline everyopne gets pissed off (especially when its Gia), but when Will Minson does the same thing everybody sort of goes "Oh Will you drongo" and laughs. He's the only player supporters seem to find amusing when he stuffs up.

[hujsh]

I don't think Hujsh was trying to make the point that Williams is our out and out gun CHB, merely that he was probably ahead of Wight in the coaches pecking order and now that might not be the case.

Yes i was. Williams was set to be the chosen CHB and Wight would be the forward but with the injury to Williams we have developed Wight into a better CHB than he was.


Williams gets hype because he's pick no.6 and the club rates him. Probably better potential than Wight.

[bold-dogg]

Wasn't the hope for Williams that he's a "magnificent athlete", powerful body, "hits the ground running", will have a commanding presence, something special. But he'd want a lot of experience and at least 50 games in the 1sts before he could master the game and realise his talents. Due to injury has he played 50 games in the reserves yet? He's 21, two years younger than Wight.
Wight has different attributes that we hope could ultimately prove a nightmare matchup: height, athleticism, big engine. Clayton seems to like finding players outside of the square, athletes that bring something different to the game, from rugby states, or from basketball, or the Tiwi Islands.
Wight, Williams, Lake, Everitt, Morris could make a backline really solid AND spectacular. Looks overtall, but of course some of these guys could settle in different positions.
Wight looking like he can hold down CHB gives Williams more experience and the chance to polish his skills with WILLIAMStown, improve disposal, not give away so many free kicks etc., and eventually come into CHB, or even CHF at 20 brilliant disposals a game.
I'm hopeful, and here's to Tommy 2 or 3 years down the track. He'll play CHB before then, but looking to that "something special". In the meantime we're all impressed with Cam Wights effort and guts, a real Bulldog.

[BulldogBelle]

I have always been a fan of Wight's and he is coming along nicely. The club is quite pleased with his efforts of late and will give him every chance to further improve.

Like a few others I am also over hearing about Williams and his potential. Sure he has had some bad luck with injuries but until he finally gets on the park and strings over 10-15 games in succession only then will we really know his true worth. I will reserve judgement till then.

[Dancin' Douggy]

It's purely physical. Wight doesn't have the upper body strength of Williams. As a physical specimen, Williams looks like the type to take on big strong power forwards. Wight still looks like a beanpole and is easily out muscled. Not his fault, but it's the reason why the club is placing so much faith in Williams.
Wight is a brilliant player to have on the bench. Very versatile, tall, fast and can kick goals. But Williams can really lock down CHB for 10 years. I don't think Wight can.

[GVGjr]

It's purely physical. Wight doesn't have the upper body strength of Williams. As a physical specimen, Williams looks like the type to take on big strong power forwards. Wight still looks like a beanpole and is easily out muscled. Not his fault, but it's the reason why the club is placing so much faith in Williams.
Wight is a brilliant player to have on the bench. Very versatile, tall, fast and can kick goals. But Williams can really lock down CHB for 10 years. I don't think Wight can.

I'm not sure that I agree with that. Sure Wight isn't a beast of a player but I haven't seen him out muscled this season too often. I think looks must be deceiving if you think Williams is vastly superior in this area. I agree Williams is more likely to be a 10 year player than Wight but that is largely based on potential and some people don't always deliver on potential.

[LostDoggy]

It's purely physical. Wight doesn't have the upper body strength of Williams. As a physical specimen, Williams looks like the type to take on big strong power forwards. Wight still looks like a beanpole and is easily out muscled. Not his fault, but it's the reason why the club is placing so much faith in Williams.
Wight is a brilliant player to have on the bench. Very versatile, tall, fast and can kick goals. But Williams can really lock down CHB for 10 years. I don't think Wight can.

I agree with the comments about both players. Williams has burst and is able to take-off at CHB and quickly have the ball in the forward line. Yes, he has big improvement in him but already he has more attack in his game than Wight.

Despite his lack of grounding in the game, Williams' decision-making is good and his disposal is superior to that of Wight

The more games Williams plays the better he will become as his marking skills and reading of the game improve. As somebody said earlier, he gives away too many free kicks at this stage, something which will improve as he gains poise through experience.

Williams has the potential to match it with the power forwards like Brown, Hall, Franklin and Mooney. Wight has not.

[The Doctor]

I agree with the comments about both players. Williams has burst and is able to take-off at CHB and quickly have the ball in the forward line. Yes, he has big improvement in him but already he has more attack in his game than Wight.

Despite his lack of grounding in the game, Williams' decision-making is good and his disposal is superior to that of Wight

The more games Williams plays the better he will become as his marking skills and reading of the game improve. As somebody said earlier, he gives away too many free kicks at this stage, something which will improve as he gains poise through experience.

Williams has the potential to match it with the power forwards like Brown, Hall, Franklin and Mooney. Wight has not.


I think you and DD have summarised the differences between Wight and Williams very well. I'd just like to add that in their relatively short careers Williams has shown by some margin he can play at the higher level better than Wight.

I worry about Wight at CHB. If I were an opposition coach I would be directing as much of my attack through him as possible.

If you look at last Saturday night's game v Eagles it was Wight's opponent Kennedy who was causing us all the early trouble. He constantly left Wight in his wake. When the game was up for grabs we were exposed in this crucial area. This happens a lot and not by just good players. The unlisted Jeremy Dukes of Port Melb ripped him to pieces in the VFL last year.

If Wight is going to be beaten by these guys what hope do we have against the real gun CHF's.

Williams may still carry that 'P' (potential) tag but he at least still has it whereas Cam doesn't in my view.

[Desipura]

I think you and DD have summarised the differences between Wight and Williams very well. I'd just like to add that in their relatively short careers Williams has shown by some margin he can play at the higher level better than Wight.

I worry about Wight at CHB. If I were an opposition coach I would be directing as much of my attack through him as possible.

If you look at last Saturday night's game v Eagles it was Wight's opponent Kennedy who was causing us all the early trouble. He constantly left Wight in his wake. When the game was up for grabs we were exposed in this crucial area. This happens a lot and not by just good players. The unlisted Jeremy Dukes of Port Melb ripped him to pieces in the VFL last year.

If Wight is going to be beaten by these guys what hope do we have against the real gun CHF's.

Williams may still carry that 'P' (potential) tag but he at least still has it whereas Cam doesn't in my view.
Also like to add it is when we are winning the ball out of the midfield that Wight gives us something by running fwd and thus creating a loose man. (we saw the best and worst in the 1st qtr of Wight against Kositzcke) When we are being beaten in the middle this forces Wight to have to play one on one which leaves him vulnerable.

If Williams can hold down CHB, Wight might be a more important than you think as it would allow him to play on a smaller type. This would give him a distinct height advantage and a less physical opponent, thus his vulnerability one on one would not be as much as a factor. His non stop running up the ground gives us another loose man.

[Dogs 24/7]

If you look at last Saturday night's game v Eagles it was Wight's opponent Kennedy who was causing us all the early trouble. He constantly left Wight in his wake. When the game was up for grabs we were exposed in this crucial area. This happens a lot and not by just good players. The unlisted Jeremy Dukes of Port Melb ripped him to pieces in the VFL last year.

If Wight is going to be beaten by these guys what hope do we have against the real gun CHF's.

Williams may still carry that 'P' (potential) tag but he at least still has it whereas Cam doesn't in my view.

It's an interesting assessment.
I seem to recall that Lake got soundly beaten by Chad Jones a few times and clearly didn't play him close enough and from memory Kennedy possessions were because he was on the receiving end of some fine midfield work.
I suppose Lake gets a bit more lattitude from the fans than Wight because of past victories but I thought Wight was a fine contributor on the night.
I have no doubts that Williams will be the better footballer if he can himself fit but Wight isn't the liability that some seem to think. I am not suggesting they are your words but he does have a bit of value as far as I am concerned.

[The Doctor]

If Williams can hold down CHB, Wight might be a more important than you think as it would allow him to play on a smaller type. This would give him a distinct height advantage and a less physical opponent, thus his vulnerability one on one would not be as much as a factor. His non stop running up the ground gives us another loose man.

Interesting thought.

In this case I would prefer we give this loose running role to a player who can break the lines with pace or dispose the ball cleverly to break through the lines. THis is where a player like Everitt might be a better option.

[Desipura]

Interesting thought.

In this case I would prefer we give this loose running role to a player who can break the lines with pace or dispose the ball cleverly to break through the lines. THis is where a player like Everitt might be a better option.
Totally agree, as we know he also has the footy smarts.
At 199cm Wight can also pinch hit in the ruck which is an extra bow he has.

[1eyedog]

string?:)

[Bulldog Revolution]

Interesting discussions by all

Wight over the past two weeks has started to look more confident at the level, and is starting games better than he was earlier in the season. I hope he really grabs this opportunity by the scruff of the neck.

Williams is clearly a talent, but completely unable to stay fit for any length of time. At this stage the only conclusion that can be drawn is that his body cannot handle the workload of being an AFL footballer. The club has always taken a long term view of him as an athlete and I'd almost advocate that they leave him in the VFL for all of 2008. I had a similar view of 2007 for him but they put him in the seniors and he was encouraging, but he really needs to stay fit otherwise he will never develop.

Lake was super on Saturday night and looked back to his best post the Hip operation.

[Desipura]

string?:)
string to his bow, yes.

[LostDoggy]

Lake = Henderson >>>Kennedy >>> Croft >>>


>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

Tony Campbell

and dont forget DARCY (David)

[LostDoggy]

On the matter of disposal though, do you find that when most players stuff up by getting holding the ball against them or screwing up a pass into the forwardline everyopne gets pissed off (especially when its Gia), but when Will Minson does the same thing everybody sort of goes "Oh Will you drongo" and laughs. He's the only player supporters seem to find amusing when he stuffs up.

That's because of Will's adorable biceps, of course. He is a lovable rascal though, you have to admit. I think he's forgiven so much because we know he's always giving his absolute, absolute best, despite his obvious limitations, whereas we are less forgiving when other, far more 'talented' players (a certain skinny former Dog turned Tiger) coast along not giving a stuff.

[hujsh]

Yes, Will certainly is not in the team for his ball use (although he could do some work on it)