Forget the missed goal, vs Carlton McNeil was Heart and Soul

[mjp]

Just reading through a few of the 'ins and outs' proposed for Geelong.

I kind of get McNeil being on the outs list. Kinda.

But that was a heart and soul performance. For me, I don't understand how you leave someone how after an effort like that - the bloke was in EVERYTHING and his pressure and effort up forward was the equal of West and Weightman...I mean, sure, he missed a set shot from 7m out (and has a reputation for doing exactly that), but, I mean...hasn't a corner been turned in his performances?

[Happy Days]

He does do a lot of little stuff well, and if anything has transferred over from that bizarroworld pre season effort against the Hawks it’s some pretty good body work when one out. He was pretty impactful without a heap of the ball on Saturday and he’s been like that a few times this year. I won’t get the same frustration seeing him named as I got when he was back in for the Port game anyway.

I think the angst to get Garcia in the team, which I don’t fully disagree with, has made him even more of a lightning rod.

[Grantysghost]

https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExZjBpdWpzazU3MGtsaTc1dXpycjgxcm5ybTdjMWhhd 203ejFrMTJ1ZiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/3016In3PO5FO8Uo7v7/giphy.gif

[Axe Man]

GG hacking Woof accounts left, right and centre.

[Grantysghost]

GG hacking Woof accounts left, right and centre.

I see it but I dooooooooont believe it.

[Sedat]

The 2 minutes up to and including his goal square miss was peak McNeil. Fantastic defensive pressure on multiple occasions, huge workrate to somehow win a 1-on-1 aerial contest and then completely fluffing his lines from point blank range. It is obviously a technical issue, because he hits his instep and goes left more often than not when missing shots at goal.

I keep thinking about the first 6 rounds of 2021 and we were 6-0 with genuine small pressure forwards in our structure for the first time in ages (McNeil and Scott at the time). He really works hard and has a crack, and we just look better when we have multiple small pressure forwards (shout out to West and Weightman as well - both are much more than just pressure forwards, but they absolutely apply the heat when needed).

[The Underdog]

I see it but I dooooooooont believe it.

Starting to get crowded on the McNeil bus. Less people throwing rocks at it too.

[MrMahatma]

If we have to forget the goal, do we forget the run down tackle too?

Surely a forward's ability to convert from the goal square, and importantly their ability to NOT convert, simply HAS to be a consideration for match committee. If you can't kick goals from there then hang them up.

[Mantis]

If we have to forget the goal, do we forget the run down tackle too?

Surely a forward's ability to convert from the goal square, and importantly their ability to NOT convert, simply HAS to be a consideration for match committee. If you can't kick goals from there then hang them up.

Nerves are a wonderful thing!

Go and check Anirban Lahiri's missed putt to win the LIV golf tournament o/n... without pressure he makes that putt 100 times out of 100, but in the moment his putting stroke failed, and he was left looking like a beginner.

[mjp]

If we have to forget the goal, do we forget the run down tackle too?

It doesn't work like that - BOTH are part of the package. But he played with an attitude that in many respects led the way for us...

Sometimes you just have to take the bad to get the good. And the only way to become confident kicking goals in an AFL game is to actually kick goals in an AFL game...given opportunity, he will overcome the yips (because his field kicking is fine).

[MrMahatma]

Nerves are a wonderful thing!

Go and check Anirban Lahiri's missed putt to win the LIV golf tournament o/n... without pressure he makes that putt 100 times out of 100, but in the moment his putting stroke failed, and he was left looking like a beginner.

I get it, and that's also kind of the point. Round 18 nerves got to him. What if it's a final?

Credit to him for putting in the effort and being resilient enough to keep fronting up though.

[ReLoad]

Heart and Soul alone doesn't win premierships.

We've lost a lot of close games, this was exactly the moment that would have ended the game, put a nail in it, shot the blues dead between the eyes, but he missed an unforgivable miss.

I'm sorry, but there's players of equal heart and soul that wont stuff that up, surely that is the answer?

[Go_Dogs]

He almost tried to kick through that set shot too hard, which seems like the opposite problem to what I’ve seen previously.

I agree with mjp - McNeil was great, he worked hard and won contests or influenced them meaningfully when he had no right to. He’d then get on his bike and create an option, draw an opposition player.

He’s getting there. He’s going to make some mistakes. Bont misses goals sometimes too.

[mighty_west]

Most of us were raving about him before round one for his performances in those Hawks praccy matches, he didn't seem to have any issues kicking for goals in those games for memory? He's similar i guess with VDM and Arty where they can do good things, run hard, do the pressure things well but let themselves down too often, as noted on the weekend McNeil seemed to work his ass off and put himself in really important positions to make a few vital plays, but then miss that sitter right in front.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

He works hard.

About all I can give.

[Go_Dogs]

He works hard.

About all I can give.

Still not seeing it? Fair enough.

To me he’s the Dahlhaus from 2015 era. Maybe I’m underrating Dahl.

[Happy Days]

Still not seeing it? Fair enough.

To me he’s the Dahlhaus from 2015 era. Maybe I’m underrating Dahl.

Bruh. In 2015 Dahl had 590 possessions. He was a full on jet for a hot minute there. I want to love McNeil but that’s insanity.

[Go_Dogs]

Bruh. In 2015 Dahl had 590 possessions. He was a full on jet for a hot minute there. I want to love McNeil but that’s insanity.

Maybe 2014 Dahl then. Or 2013? Some early version of Dahl before he was awesome at playing midfield minutes.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Maybe 2014 Dahl then. Or 2013? Some early version of Dahl before he was awesome at playing midfield minutes.

Definitely underselling Dahl's impact. He was a lone shining light in his first year or two.

[Scorlibo]

I didn't give votes for the Port game but if I had then I would have given McNeil the 4. Thought he brought a heap of intensity and backed it up against Carlton. Truly line ball decision on that pressure forward role between he and Vandermeer at the moment.

[bornadog]

I didn't give votes for the Port game but if I had then I would have given McNeil the 4. Thought he brought a heap of intensity and backed it up against Carlton. Truly line ball decision on that pressure forward role between he and Vandermeer at the moment.

You can still vote.

[Scorlibo]

You can still vote.

Closes the Tuesday after the weekend doesn't it?

[jazzadogs]

McNeill was 95% great on Saturday night, and is absolutely not in the mix to get dropped.

I think you can still question his ability to be consistent and 'make it', because anyone consistently missing set shots like that has an uphill battle...but there's no way he is dropped after that.

He needs to maintain that intensity and spend a few hours 1 on 1 with Johnno and the sports psych to sort out those set shots.

[bornadog]

Closes the Tuesday after the weekend doesn't it?

Go for it. Closes Tuesday 8pm

[Grantysghost]

Go for it. Closes Tuesday 8pm
I think it was the Port game being referenced?

[MrMahatma]

You can still vote.

Should there be a “Woof Under 10s encouragement award where everyone gets a ribbon”? I’d vote for McNeil in that one.

[bornadog]

I think it was the Port game being referenced?

argh, yes. Thanks I went back and re read it.

[bulldogtragic]

I just saw the miss. FMD he’s THE worst goal kicker I’ve ever seen. He tries hard, but bloody hell you just can’t keep doing this and getting games. Or maybe you can.

[bornadog]

I just saw the miss. FMD he’s THE worst goal kicker I’ve ever seen. He tries hard, but bloody hell you just can’t keep doing this and getting games. Or maybe you can.

Did you watch the beautiful handpass to JUH who then snapped a goal. I think it was the 3rd quarter.

He did some very nice things on the night. Too bad he missed that goal. At the ground I said I can't watch this as he came in to kick

[bulldogtragic]

Did you watch the beautiful handpass to JUH who then snapped a goal. I think it was the 3rd quarter.

He did some very nice things on the night. Too bad he missed that goal. At the ground I said I can't watch this as he came in to kick

I’m not potting his overall game per se. He did a few nice things. But the bloke can’t putt and keeps being invited to play the majors and blowing chances on missed 1 foot tap ins.

[1eyedog]

Just reading through a few of the 'ins and outs' proposed for Geelong.

I kind of get McNeil being on the outs list. Kinda.

But that was a heart and soul performance. For me, I don't understand how you leave someone how after an effort like that - the bloke was in EVERYTHING and his pressure and effort up forward was the equal of West and Weightman...I mean, sure, he missed a set shot from 7m out (and has a reputation for doing exactly that), but, I mean...hasn't a corner been turned in his performances?

So which forward do you drop for Naughton? VDM? We have to drop someone!

[jeemak]

So which forward do you drop for Naughton? VDM? We have to drop someone!

I'd drop Gallagher and shuffle the lineup with Sanders the sub and Naughton and Garcia starting. I don't think Treloar gets up which is why I think my proposed changes can happen.

[Mantis]

Did you watch the beautiful handpass to JUH who then snapped a goal. I think it was the 3rd quarter.


It was a nice bit of play.

But both at the game and then watching the replay it looked very ?throwish?.

Not sure it?s possible to handball in that way and get the ball going in that direction.

[mjp]

I'd drop Gallagher and shuffle the lineup with Sanders the sub and Naughton and Garcia starting. I don't think Treloar gets up which is why I think my proposed changes can happen.

I am not sure I would play Poulter. But I'm not exactly sure on what he's being asked to do...he is taking 'holding your width' to a new level. Maybe it is just a literal interpration of an instruction, maybe we do want him that far on the outside...I don't know. Without understanding what he's being tasked with he's a tough one to evaluate.

I don't think there's any way Gallagher should be selected but I've felt that way for at least 6-weeks and every week he's in the side.

[bornadog]

I am not sure I would play Poulter. But I'm not exactly sure on what he's being asked to do...he is taking 'holding your width' to a new level. Maybe it is just a literal interpration of an instruction, maybe we do want him that far on the outside...I don't know. Without understanding what he's being tasked with he's a tough one to evaluate.

I don't think there's any way Gallagher should be selected but I've felt that way for at least 6-weeks and every week he's in the side.

We do refuse to attack via the corridor and head to the wings at all cost. Poulter played a pretty good game being a link man on the wing, especially the last quarter.

[mjp]

Poulter played a pretty good game being a link man on the wing, especially the last quarter.

He certainly played on the wing.

[Mantis]

He certainly played on the wing.

He played wider than the boundary umpire.

[Axe Man]

He played wider than the boundary umpire.

Better get him some hi-vis in case he wanders on Moorabool Street during the game Saturday night. Although to be fair it is situated where the wing should be.

[mjp]

He certainly played on the wing.

As I said, I don't know what he was being asked to do...

[GVGjr]

He certainly played on the wing.

70% of his possessions were within about 10 mtrs of the Marvel boundary line. He's going to have to adjust to that at Sedat Park and I suspect the club might adjust the boundary lines at the WO tomorrow if we are going to do any real match sim.

1459

[angelopetraglia]

70% of his possessions were within about 10 mtrs of the Marvel boundary line. He's going to have to adjust to that at Sedat Park and I suspect the club might adjust the boundary lines at the WO tomorrow if we are going to do any real match sim.

1459

Is Whitten Oval now the dimensions of Docklands?

[GVGjr]

Is Whitten Oval now the dimensions of Docklands?

Yes, that is what I was told when I did a tour. Apparently they can also do some adjustments to the width of the ground if they so choose. I'm not sure if they can move the goal posts at one end or not.

[bornadog]

As I said, I don't know what he was being asked to do...

He also took 6 marks, and had 17 disposals. Moved the ball well between HBF to HFF

[Sedat]

70% of his possessions were within about 10 mtrs of the Marvel boundary line. He's going to have to adjust to that at Sedat Park and I suspect the club might adjust the boundary lines at the WO tomorrow if we are going to do any real match sim.

1459
He will make a killing selling pies in the crowd at No Wings Shithole Park this weekend

[The Doctor]

Just reading through a few of the 'ins and outs' proposed for Geelong.

I kind of get McNeil being on the outs list. Kinda.

I mean, sure, he missed a set shot from 7m out (and has a reputation for doing exactly that), but, I mean...hasn't a corner been turned in his performances?

I saw my wife take an overhead mark in a dress and stilettos 10m out from goal in a muck around game that had a few Swannies playing and she nailed it.

If you can't kick a goal from 10m out then you really shouldn't be playing AFL unless you're Dale Morris. As you say, he has history.

[mjp]

I saw my wife take an overhead mark in a dress and stilettos 10m out from goal in a muck around game that had a few Swannies playing and she nailed it.

If you can't kick a goal from 10m out then you really shouldn't be playing AFL unless you're Dale Morris.

Your wife sounds like a real talent...not sure I could kick straight wearing stilettos but to be fair I haven't tried.

Then again, I would probably be a very good bet to kick a goal from where Lachie missed from - I would conservatively kick a footy 500x per week and I'm pretty good. But not sure my kicking skills (or your wife's) would be too helpful since I wouldn't actually get the ball in a game of AFL footy.

He was heart and soul against Carlton. A minute or so after missing the goal that has everyone so "this bloke just can't play" he pushed back and took an intercept mark. He wasn't wallowing or worrying...he was in the moment and playing the game.

Better players than him have missed easier goals...no point worrying about what he can't do. We need to bring the heat inside forward 50m to protect our inexperienced defence. He's a part of that.

[bornadog]

Your wife sounds like a real talent...not sure I could kick straight wearing stilettos but to be fair I haven't tried.

Then again, I would probably be a very good bet to kick a goal from where Lachie missed from - I would conservatively kick a footy 500x per week and I'm pretty good. But not sure my kicking skills (or your wife's) would be too helpful since I wouldn't actually get the ball in a game of AFL footy.

He was heart and soul against Carlton. A minute or so after missing the goal that has everyone so "this bloke just can't play" he pushed back and took an intercept mark. He wasn't wallowing or worrying...he was in the moment and playing the game.

Better players than him have missed easier goals...no point worrying about what he can't do. We need to bring the heat inside forward 50m to protect our inexperienced defence. He's a part of that.

I remember a crucial goal in the 3rd quarter against Freo missed by a star of the game, and our captain. Not hard to do when nerves kick in

[The Doctor]

Your wife sounds like a real talent...not sure I could kick straight wearing stilettos but to be fair I haven't tried.

Then again, I would probably be a very good bet to kick a goal from where Lachie missed from - I would conservatively kick a footy 500x per week and I'm pretty good. But not sure my kicking skills (or your wife's) would be too helpful since I wouldn't actually get the ball in a game of AFL footy.

He was heart and soul against Carlton. A minute or so after missing the goal that has everyone so "this bloke just can't play" he pushed back and took an intercept mark. He wasn't wallowing or worrying...he was in the moment and playing the game.

Better players than him have missed easier goals...no point worrying about what he can't do. We need to bring the heat inside forward 50m to protect our inexperienced defence. He's a part of that.

She's German, they're the best at everything, apparently!

I get the point you are making. I agree he put in. The issue aside from his poor conversion, which is important for forward line players, is that he so rarely produces this kind of performance. He will get another game next week.

[mjp]

She's German, they're the best at everything, apparently!
Interesting. My family heritage is German but my wife is 100% that she is much better at everything that exists in the world than I am. So the whole 'German' thing doesn't work out my way.



The issue aside from his poor conversion, which is important for forward line players, is that he so rarely produces this kind of performance.

To me - based on the fact he started the year in the side and is regularly given opportunities - the way he played vs Carlton is the way he performs at training during match simulation drills. So I guess to me he showed that:

1/. It's "in" him.
2/. Being in the side is important to him because it was just a heart on sleeve, effort based performance.

I hope he is selected this week (along with VDM, West and Weightman). I think we need HEAT on in forward 50m to protect our backs. I think there can be no compromise on this right now (as our mids are not the greatest group of defensive players and the pressure had better come from somewhere).

[jeemak]

I remember a crucial goal in the 3rd quarter against Freo missed by a star of the game, and our captain. Not hard to do when nerves kick in

But at least Bont looks super stylish when he leans back and swings his leg outside to inside and sprays them left.

[Happy Days]

So is he Bont or is he Dahlhaus or is he shit I am so confused

[FrediKanoute]

Your wife sounds like a real talent...not sure I could kick straight wearing stilettos but to be fair I haven't tried.

Then again, I would probably be a very good bet to kick a goal from where Lachie missed from - I would conservatively kick a footy 500x per week and I'm pretty good. But not sure my kicking skills (or your wife's) would be too helpful since I wouldn't actually get the ball in a game of AFL footy.

He was heart and soul against Carlton. A minute or so after missing the goal that has everyone so "this bloke just can't play" he pushed back and took an intercept mark. He wasn't wallowing or worrying...he was in the moment and playing the game.

Better players than him have missed easier goals...no point worrying about what he can't do. We need to bring the heat inside forward 50m to protect our inexperienced defence. He's a part of that.

Given we kicked 0.7 in he 1st quarter your point is pretty strong. A good game from McNeil. Handy support player capable of deputising as a pressure player shuld one of our other pressure players go down.

[jeemak]

So is he Bont or is he Dahlhaus or is he shit I am so confused

McNeil vs. Dahl at the same age:

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=I&tid2=8&type=A&pid1=6895&pid2=3556&fid1=O&fid2=O

Not even going to worry about a summary with this comparison. Different positions, Dahl miles ahead.

[hujsh]

McNeil vs. Dahl at the same age:

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=I&tid2=8&type=A&pid1=6895&pid2=3556&fid1=O&fid2=O

Not even going to worry about a summary with this comparison. Different positions, Dahl miles ahead.

So McNeil is Shithaus?

...I'll see myself out

[macca]

So McNeil is Shithaus?

...I'll see myself out

I consider he is at kicking.

He must be hitting all the Kpi to be in the team.
I have a feeling we are going to stick with him. Hopefully 50 games, is the bench mark I tend to judge players. Sooner would be better. But if he can convert than he definitely stays.

[Pleather Sole]

He seems to struggle with the pressure of AFL environment. The crowds, the noise, the nervous energy. He ticks boxes at VFL level and he works hard. When the spotlight is on him in a big game he hasn't learnt the tools of how to execute. Its as simple as working with someone on that transition. Early this year after a brilliant preseason, IIRC he played very well in one game and we were saying he should be delisted every year. So he's more than capable. I assume there is someone at the club with appropriate skills to support him through that?

[Uninformed]

Interesting. My family heritage is German but my wife is 100% that she is much better at everything that exists in the world than I am. So the whole 'German' thing doesn't work out my way.

Is that because your wife is very, very good? Or because you are very, very.......?

[lemmon]

He seems to struggle with the pressure of AFL environment. The crowds, the noise, the nervous energy. He ticks boxes at VFL level and he works hard. When the spotlight is on him in a big game he hasn't learnt the tools of how to execute. Its as simple as working with someone on that transition. Early this year after a brilliant preseason, IIRC he played very well in one game and we were saying he should be delisted every year. So he's more than capable. I assume there is someone at the club with appropriate skills to support him through that?

It's probably a symptom of knowing that he's playing for his career as well. It must be difficult executing your skills knowing you're a poor game or two from being out of the side and probably off the list.

[Critter]

The more I see of McNeil, the more I appreciate what he is bringing to the improvement in the effectiveness of our forward line.

To me, Weightman and West have been major factors in the improved performance of the forward line. Their hard running and tackling enables us to maintain possession for longer periods.

Additionally though, I have also noticed Mc Neil increasingly get himself to dangerous positions, close to goal, at very much the right time - often one out. I think he is developing forward craft. His physicality is improving - enabling him to hold his own against his opponent - he has speed and if he can remove the yips from his kicking, he might even evolve into that mythical creature - a nipsy.

[mjp]

... that mythical creature - a nipsy.

Dare I ask??

[Critter]

Dare I ask??

The will-o'-the-wisp who swoops in, spins magic and kicks the magical goal.

[Grantysghost]

The more I see of McNeil, the more I appreciate what he is bringing to the improvement in the effectiveness of our forward line.

To me, Weightman and West have been major factors in the improved performance of the forward line. Their hard running and tackling enables us to maintain possession for longer periods.

Additionally though, I have also noticed Mc Neil increasingly get himself to dangerous positions, close to goal, at very much the right time - often one out. I think he is developing forward craft. His physicality is improving - enabling him to hold his own against his opponent - he has speed and if he can remove the yips from his kicking, he might even evolve into that mythical creature - a nipsy.

And he's only 22.

Also - wtf is a nipsy !

[Mofra]

And he's only 22.
That's the rub - he's getting senior AFL games and he's far from the finished product
A former rookie / delistee. I think we're pretty harsh on our players sometimes.

[Critter]

See above

[jazzadogs]

The will-o'-the-wisp who swoops in, spins magic and kicks the magical goal.

In my family Mitch Hahn was called nipsy because my little brother couldn't say Mitchy. I'm thinking either you're my brother, or we weren't the only ones...

[Critter]

In my family Mitch Hahn was called nipsy because my little brother couldn't say Mitchy. I'm thinking either you're my brother, or we weren't the only ones...

I think it dates from 70s/80s. Jeff Farmer and the Krakoeur brothers were nipsies. As was Steve Kolyniuk.

[mjp]

I think it dates from 70s/80s. Jeff Farmer and the Krakoeur brothers were nipsies. As was Steve Kolyniuk.

All 3 of those players from WA.

If they were Nipsies, I guarantee I would have known about it!

[Critter]

All 3 of those players from WA.
If they were Nipsies, I guarantee I would have known about it!

If you were living in Melbourne at the time and following the VFL you?d remember it. Ring Tim Watson and ask him about nipsies.

[mjp]

I think it dates from 70s/80s. Jeff Farmer and the Krakoeur brothers were nipsies. As was Steve Kolyniuk.

But Steve Kolyniuk played nothing like the Krakouers. Who - to be fair, played nothing like The Wiz.

I still don't get how a Will 'o' the Wisp is a Nipsie - or how there is a single category for Kolynuik, Farmer and the Karakouer Brothers but every region has it's own colloquial language.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Did anyone see McNeill get a ball almost in the goal square saturday and his first instinct was to almost try and give it to a teammate

For whatever his critics- McNeill is all team, all the time - and a team needs a few blokes like that

[comrade]

Did anyone see McNeill get a ball almost in the goal square saturday and his first instinct was to almost try and give it to a teammate

For whatever his critics- McNeill is all team, all the time - and a team needs a few blokes like that

His tackling was manic, too. I'm starting to see it.

[Grantysghost]

Guys the McNeil bandwagon is full. It has one seat, and a side car for MJP.

[SquirrelGrip]

Guys the McNeil bandwagon is full. It has one seat, and a side car for MJP.

https://i.postimg.cc/vHLHXQQD/Bandwagon.jpg (https://postimg.cc/0bjsy1Kq)

We are right behind you! The team is better with the speed and team-first attitude of McNeil, VDM and Bramble.

[Grantysghost]

https://i.postimg.cc/vHLHXQQD/Bandwagon.jpg (https://postimg.cc/0bjsy1Kq)

We are right behind you! The team is better with the speed and team-first attitude of McNeil, VDM and Bramble.
Hahaaaaaaa gold! Ok there's room for one more :cool:

[hujsh]

McNeil reminds me of the kind of player I used to be. Hard working, willing to do any role for the team, absolutely terrified of actually having the ball and desperate to hand it off to someone better. All important characteristics for an AFL footballer

[The Underdog]

Guys the McNeil bandwagon is full. It has one seat, and a side car for MJP.

Can I at least drive?

[GVGjr]

Did anyone see McNeill get a ball almost in the goal square saturday and his first instinct was to almost try and give it to a teammate

For whatever his critics- McNeill is all team, all the time - and a team needs a few blokes like that

Sure did, Not sure why that instinct kicked in and it could have gone very badly. It appears we have redesigned his role up forward a bit differently and he is more than holding his spot on merit at the moment and he's playing his role and making a contribution.

[GVGjr]

Can I at least drive?

To quote Michael Scott, the rules on calling shotgun are quite clear.

[Grantysghost]

Can I at least drive?
You're in!