After the Carlton game, I'm team Buku.

[mjp]

OK.

When I'm wrong I say I'm wrong.

Buku might just make it. Playing in front vs Curnow, flying at the footy...he's still not a first choice key back for me but if he can play on Curnow he can play on Cameron. Give him a shot.

And that was NOT a free kick for holding in the last q - that was rubbish of the highest order...and yes, Curnow still had 10-shots on goal but the kid was great and broke up a heap of attacks.

Pick him against Geelong. I'm still not a total believer but that was a huge leap in - um, basic defensive competence?

Well done to the development team and backs coaches and well done to Bevo and the MC for giving him another go at it.

[Grantysghost]

Totally agree. I've been on the fence, I thought there was too much of a gap in basic feel for the game to overcome; but wow I'm happy to be wrong. He looked the part and was in the right spots more often than not.

That was a watershed performance. I'm super happy for him. He was getting under their skin too as the longer the game went the more Mckay in particular started to try and verbal him and get under his skin to put him off.

[Mitcha]

Solid effort on a very good player. Sure Curnow had a heap of shots on goal but Buku must have taken at least a half a dozen intercept marks. Weitering is regarded as one of the gun defenders in the game and although the commentators couldn't shut up about how many intercept marks he picked off they failed to mention that Marra had a breakout game kicking 4, having 13 score assists and career high possesion numbers. Buku was every bit as influential as Weitering.

[Eastdog]

Really good game from Buku. I thought he did really well. Gave him 1 vote on the Woof player awards.

[1eyedog]

OK.

When I'm wrong I say I'm wrong.

Buku might just make it. Playing in front vs Curnow, flying at the footy...he's still not a first choice key back for me but if he can play on Curnow he can play on Cameron. Give him a shot.

And that was NOT a free kick for holding in the last q - that was rubbish of the highest order...and yes, Curnow still had 10-shots on goal but the kid was great and broke up a heap of attacks.

Pick him against Geelong. I'm still not a total believer but that was a huge leap in - um, basic defensive competence?

Well done to the development team and backs coaches and well done to Bevo and the MC for giving him another go at it.

I dunno 3.7 and one miss kinda tells me otherwise.

[Happy Days]

I think to the eye live he played much better and didn’t do any of that stuff (getting out bodied badly one on one, running under the ball, etc) that’s made him so tough to watch, but giving up 11 shots is crazy even if one or two were from rubbish free kicks. I was shocked when I saw Curnow’s stats post game as it really seemed like Buku mostly put the clamps on him.

[Grantysghost]

I dunno 3.7 and one miss kinda tells me otherwise.
That's not a fair guide to the way Buku played.
Curnow went roaming high a lot to get kicks and was having long pings that missed.
Buku was still very good despite that stat.

[GVGjr]

I enjoyed his performance but I do wonder if Curnow had a 5 goal and 5 point match and we lost the game how his performance might have been viewed.
Happy to keep Khamis and Gardner on the list as back-ups and Khamis might even force his way into a regular spot.

[Sedat]

He did as well as could be expected for someone with limitations against the most prolific key forward in the game. Never shirked any contest and on occasions when he was beaten, it was simply fair and square against a better quality opponent.

Also the free against him in the 2nd qtr that kick-started Curnow was garbage - if that is paid all the time, there would be 100 frees a game.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Nice post

If any other coach had beaten Carlton with Buku and Lobb as the two key defenders they would be being hailed as a coaching genius

[chef]

Yeah nah, not for me. We need JOD and Jones back desperately.

Would prefer Buss to be getting these opportunities.

[SlimPickens]

Good god no. Buku tried his guts out but Curnow destroyed him, maybe as the third tall if others are missing.

[MrMahatma]

I saw the good stuff he did, and he did plenty.

But if you're a defender and your opponent is kicking 3.7, you've not only been soundly beaten, you've been slaughtered.

Now, Curnow is one of, if not THE, best forwards going around, so getting beaten isn't really a surprise, nor proof that Buku can't make it. But the performance hasn't changed my view that he's limited as a defender, and we don't need him as a forward.

[angelopetraglia]

We all universally thought Jamarra was BOG. He had 13 score involvements.

Guess who else had 13 score involvements? Curnow.

Marra 13
Curnow 13

Daylight

Then a number of players on 7.

Curnow had 10 marks. Marra had 6 marks.

Curnow had a huge influence on the game. I did think that Buky did some very nice things. But he didn't really curb Curnow's influence. The Bulldogs also went inside 50m ten more times than Carlton.

[Ozza]

Fascinating discussion as to whether Buku did well or not.

I would say that 4 or 5 of the 10 shots were fairly unrealistic throws at the stumps. Curnow's had 10 shots from 15 possessions. 13 score involvements - which is the same as Jamarra, who many thought was best on ground.

I would say for the gap between expectations of a fringe player playing on a champion player....Buku has at the very least - had enough good moments to support MJP's optimism. 3 contested marks of his 7 marks overall were all pretty crucial.

I'm still frustrated that we missed out of some development time with him playing forward ruck for 18 months. Ideally he doesn't have to play on Curnow/Cameron level players...but very good to see how he is competing in the air.

[Grantysghost]

Yeah nah, not for me. We need JOD and Jones back desperately.

Would prefer Buss to be getting these opportunities.
What's the reason for JOD love but not Buku chef?

I think the latter has shown far more of late.

I reckon JOD has been pretty ordinary this season.

[chef]

What's the reason for JOD love but not Buku chef?

I think the latter has shown far more of late.

I reckon JOD has been pretty ordinary this season.

I think JOD looks like a decent KPD, has good size, foot skills and natural ability.

Buku looks pretty lost out there and he's more an athlete than a footballer.

[Grantysghost]

I think JOD looks like a decent KPD, has good size, foot skills and natural ability.

Buku looks pretty lost out there and he's more an athlete than a footballer.

Re looking lost, he has certainly improved in that area from what I have seen. Seems like a really coachable player.

I understand the reservations though!

[azabob]

We all universally thought Jamarra was BOG. He had 13 score involvements.

Guess who else had 13 score involvements? Curnow.

Marra 13
Curnow 13



Take out their actual scores and Curnow has only three and Marra has six.

Curnow also played 7% more gametime than Marra.

[mjp]

Fascinating discussion as to whether Buku did well or not.


Buku was awesome.

Take the stoppage goal away and the free-kick that he received away (the one on the 50 that was NOT holding) and he's kicked 1.

Could he have kicked a couple of others? Maybe, maybe not. AFLXSCORE has them as CARL 86 from expected 91.7...so basically "they" should have kicked one more than they did...

As an aside, Bailey Dale was clearly BOG. Sorry.


Sometimes you just gotta watch and give credit where it's due. I didn't think he could do it...he did it. Celebrate the performance.

[bornadog]

Before the game, I was more worried about Buku than Lobb playing on McKay, but Buku really surprised me. You have to consider the way Carlton play, they move the ball very quickly from back to forward 50, which gave both Charlie and Mckay plenty of opportunities, in fact they had 47 inside 50s, where the whole forward line was practically empty.

This gave Charlie a big chance to score, but Buku taking 7 marks as did Lobb, saved many goals. Yeah Charlie missed plenty, but he was having shots from 50 plus metres, on the run, instead of looking for someone to pass to. I thought many of his shots were unrealistic attempts.

Don't forget Charlie is an experienced FF who has taken out a few Coleman medals. He kicked 81 goals last year and 64 the year before, so he is no slouch.

Congrats to Buku for a great effort on Saturday. However, I don't think he is the long term CHB, I see him as our 3rd tall.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

MJP going into bat for the underdogs.

I'm waiting for the VDM thread!

[DOG GOD]

Hmm. Still not convinced. Buku is ok when there?s bodies around him. Might?ve been a different story if buku was 1:1 with curnow in the goalsquare. I?d imagine Curnow would?ve just pushed Buku aside and taken the mark.

[hujsh]

Hmm. Still not convinced. Buku is ok when there?s bodies around him. Might?ve been a different story if buku was 1:1 with curnow in the goalsquare. I?d imagine Curnow would?ve just pushed Buku aside and taken the mark.

Am I misremembering or were there not a few contests like that where Buku did alright. Maybe not literally in the goalsquare but somewhere in F50?

[bornadog]

Am I misremembering or were there not a few contests like that where Buku did alright. Maybe not literally in the goalsquare but somewhere in F50?

Yes most of the contests were 1:1

[soupman]

Hmm. Still not convinced. Buku is ok when there?s bodies around him. Might?ve been a different story if buku was 1:1 with curnow in the goalsquare. I?d imagine Curnow would?ve just pushed Buku aside and taken the mark.

Also that's an unfair task. There aren't many defenders in the league who would beat Curnow in a pure one-on-one like that, even without the umpires assistance.

[FrediKanoute]

Buku is young and inexperienced but there is something there.

I'd focus on understanding what Coffield brings to the table in that defence. Nothing against the kid as I know he has had rotten luck with injury, but how he was picked before Naughts is criminal.

[Before I Die]

A little bit of thread, but?.
It was
Pointed out to me by a Carlton supporter that Curnow didn?t miss that goal from the goal square, it was touched by a dogs defender which deflected it into the post. It would have been a point anyway due to the touch. I had a look and he was right. Clearly touched by a diving Duryea.
Now, back on topic ?

[jeemak]

A little bit of thread, but?.
It was
Pointed out to me by a Carlton supporter that Curnow didn?t miss that goal from the goal square, it was touched by a dogs defender which deflected it into the post. It would have been a point anyway due to the touch. I had a look and he was right. Clearly touched by a diving Duryea.
Now, back on topic ?

Just meaningless details BID. Accurate, and entirely appropriate to call out, but meaningless when building a narrative of why Carlton are awesome and were off their food.

Nobody's really worried about what happens after a goal is kicked, or how another centre bounce contest impacts the complexion of a game after a goal. Maybe we kick one more from centre bounces than the four we already kicked if Curnow kicked one of his later attempts, maybe Carlton get on a roll and make it a less comfortable contest.

Ifs and buts, candy and nuts, merry Christmases and all that.

As for Buku, he was fine. He hurt us early with a floater wide in the first quarter that ended with Williams being done, but equally Bramble could have cleared that with a mongrel kick down the line to a contest instead of going hands. Outside of that he was really solid and took a step forward against a very well credentialed opponent.

Having just turned 24 and passing the twenty game mark this season, it's time for him to be a bit more consistent and reliable - with Saturday being a good indication he can. Hopefully it gives him a lot of confidence.

As an aside, I don't have any issues with him being played as a forward (forward/ ruck) last year. It wasn't until October that we knew Naughton would be with us for another eight years, nor did we know for sure Marra would be with us for another two until a couple of months ago (and we still don't know about English). Having Khamis able to play forward and relieve in the ruck if needed was decent hedging or forward planning by the football department.

[azabob]

Buku Khamis on RSN radio this morning - note I will post in a couple of different threads.

https://omny.fm/shows/breakfast-with-harf/buku-khamis-said-the-bulldogs-are-still-searching

[bornadog]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GSuwoPvbkAANeBV?format=jpg&name=medium

[1eyedog]

Buku was awesome.

Take the stoppage goal away and the free-kick that he received away (the one on the 50 that was NOT holding) and he's kicked 1.

Could he have kicked a couple of others? Maybe, maybe not. AFLXSCORE has them as CARL 86 from expected 91.7...so basically "they" should have kicked one more than they did...

As an aside, Bailey Dale was clearly BOG. Sorry.


Sometimes you just gotta watch and give credit where it's due. I didn't think he could do it...he did it. Celebrate the performance.

Our mids and forwards saved our backs and provided Dale with the confidence to run riot. Watching live Buku was caught in no mans land so many times. It was like he was undecided whether he should be playing Curnow one on one / guarding space or cutting the distance between two opponents. He got caught out.

He's inexperienced I get that but to laud one game where your opponent has 11 shots (one OOB) and 10 marks shows just how low the bar has been set for Buku over an extended period of time.

[1eyedog]

That's not a fair guide to the way Buku played.
Curnow went roaming high a lot to get kicks and was having long pings that missed.
Buku was still very good despite that stat.

Nah he didn't really and he only took two of his 8 marks outside F50. Curnow out marked him on 5 occasions, thats ok he's gonna do that but when Buku was in a position to mark he dropped it on two occasions. Well that's how I saw it live and watching the full replay earlier this week.

Obviously I wasn't very impressed but in all honesty I would like nothing more for him to cement a spot as our third defender.

Buku has become a real Bugbear of mine :D

[azabob]

Nah he didn't really and he only took two of his 8 marks outside F50. Curnow out marked him on 5 occasions, thats ok he's gonna do that but when Buku was in a position to mark he dropped it on two occasions. Well that's how I saw it live and watching the full replay earlier this week.

Obviously I wasn't very impressed but in all honesty I would like nothing more for him to cement a spot as our third defender.

Buku has become a real Bugbear of mine :D

Would you believe that,

Khamis took seven marks
Khamis had eight intercept possessions.
Khamis had three contested marks (Curnow also had three contested marks)

Khamis first half was bloody good, his second half wasn't as good, but that is when Curnow stared really testing Khamis by roaming outside 50 and trying to lose him in general play.

Curnow is the best forward in the game, all things considered I reckon Khamis did ok.

[1eyedog]

Would you believe that,

Khamis took seven marks
Khamis had eight intercept possessions.
Khamis had three contested marks (Curnow also had three contested marks)

Khamis first half was bloody good, his second half wasn't as good, but that is when Curnow stared really testing Khamis by roaming outside 50 and trying to lose him in general play.

Curnow is the best forward in the game, all things considered I reckon Khamis did ok.

Sure I believe you have stats just like I do.

Let's see how the pudding tastes on Saturday night.

[bornadog]

Sure I believe you have stats just like I do.

Let's see how the pudding tastes on Saturday night.

We don't have many choices to replace him

[MrMahatma]

Ok ok … I’ll listen

[comrade]

He was sensational tonight. His best game by an absolute mile.

[Axe Man]

Sign the man up now.

[bornadog]

He was sensational tonight. His best game by an absolute mile.

Another 7 marks, was very cool and calm no panicking

[azabob]

Another 7 marks, was very cool and calm no panicking

His last quarter was something else.

[Axe Man]

Is our ideal 3 KPD setup now Jones, Lobb, Khamis? I’m leaving out JOD and Coffield.

[bornadog]

Is our ideal 3 KPD setup now Jones, Lobb, Khamis? I’m leaving out JOD and Coffield.

Really changes things now.

[Axe Man]

Really changes things now.

A month ago Lobb was traded and Buku delisted.

[bornadog]

A month ago Lobb was traded and Buku delisted.

Funny world, who would have thought

[angelopetraglia]

I was wrong. Buku looked so calm tonight.

[JanLorMill]

Excellent. Eating my words

[Happy Days]

Yeah I’d given up too but he was awesome last night. The bad habits are drifting further out of his game each week.

[westdog54]

I've talked to two Geelong supporting mates in the last 24 hours. They are both blown away by Buku and what he was able to produce last night.

His trajectory from where he started our in the system is truly astounding and he hasn't hit his ceiling yet.

He's not the finished product yet but by God it's fun watching him get there.

[Go_Dogs]

Well done Buku and our coaching and development staff.

A brilliant story that’s improving by the week.

[jazzadogs]

A month ago Lobb was traded and Buku delisted.

It's got Hamling and Roberts vibes to it.

[HOSE B ROMERO]

Buku's played 23 AFL games. Has proved his versatility in the 2's whether up forward or down back; which can be invaluable. He's had some big on field challenges at the top level and done extremely well. Does that mean he won't have a shocker? Course not. But it must be a huge boost for him personally and well done to the development coaches and match committee.