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mjp
17-07-2024, 02:33 PM
Important players (for them):

Dangerfield:
- Not what he was but still led the Cats in metres gained last week. Will drive hard with his legs out of clearance which we (and every team to be fair) struggles to handle. Contested ball winner, clearance winner. In theory dangerous when resting forward but reality generally a bit different.

Cameron:
- Gun tall forward who 'seems' most dangerous when starting deep and being given license to run wherever with the goal square as his start and end point. Kicks goals by the bucketful.

Stewart:
- Was a half-back who didn't play on anyone and just took intercept marks. Now is an inside mid who doesn't play on anyone and takes intercept marks. Traditionally our number #1 receiver in games vs Cats.

Holmes:
- Hard running mid. More outside than inside but goes when it's his turn. Excellent transition runner.

Miers:
- Annoying half forward with an annoying kicking style who is really good at one thing - mid-forward connections. Sadly for us, it's quite an important thing. Luckily (for us) it's a skill that is somewhat compromised with the cats more fluid/post Hawkins forward line (though if Rohan keeps planting himself deep that could become a real issue).

That's kind of it. I mean, yeah, they have a nice small forward (Stengle) and a tricky half-forward match-up (Dempsey) but their backs are workmanlike - they get the job done through game-plan (Chris Scott creates a plus one and they have a disciplined and effective though bordering on illegal seal and support style system) and well, that's kind of it.

They are set up to kick 12-14 goals every game and restrict the oppo to around abouts 8-10...like I said, they do it through system in the mids/behind the ball with talent leading the way inside forward half. The decline (and now absence) of Hawkins has compromised this method...I am guessing they are hoping Rohan together with a young tall like Neale can generate 2-3 goals per game and right the ship - it certainly worked against Collingwood last week and Essendon the week before, but they couldn't deal with Carlton's mids the week before and whilst they still probably scored ENOUGH vs the Blues for their usual plan to 'work', Carlton had nearly 60 inside 50's and were able to isolate and overwhelm the Geelong backs.

========

So. There is a clear 'method' to beat Geelong and in many ways we executed that method very well way back in gather round (round 4)...we dominated clearance that night and - despite the final numbers - 'mostly' dominated inside 50's. Sadly in q3 we let ourselves down and the Cat's kicked 6 goals...that should NEVER have happened and ultimately despite our strong last quarter we couldn't quite get it done. What's the method:

Own the mids:
- Geelong aren't strong in this area and are kind of set up to 'break even'. To beat them, win clearance, win hard ball and win the loose ball.

Own the footy:
- Geelong at their best get out to a quick 2-3 goal lead then defend with the footy/own possession for large tracts of the game. They are confident/competent with ball in hand and don't panic when sharing the ball around (unlike so many other sides). Don't let them do this - and in contrast, it is important to find hit-ups through the corridor and 'pull them apart' defensively to break their seal and support system.

360-degree forwards:
- Geelong will 100% come forward to defend with the fatside players sliding behind the defensive group to provide support (this is kind of a contrast to Carlton in terms of defensive system). Forwards need to be active - fishing both horizontally and vertically AND continually changing positions (deepest to highest, highest to deepest) with the ball in transition to disrupt those defensive patterns. Honestly? I think this is almost a bridge too far for Jamarra who seems to want a 'set' reference point and I'm not sure this is a game for him at his current stage of development...Darcy breaks systems by taking catches with his go-go-Gadget arms and Naughton (if he plays) does the same by jumping on heads and generally crashing into people...

===========
What do we need to do NOW we didn't do in Round 5?
- I've kinda been all over the place in what I've written so far (sorry) but it's been more stream of consciousness than an actual preview. But the #1 thing is we have got to share the load. Last time we had the 3x leading possession winners on the ground (you know who) but only 6 of the leading 17...that's quite frankly unacceptable and the total lack of drive from behind the footy - pretty quiet nights for Dale, JJ, Bramble, Duryea et al - really told as the game went along. Join in boys.

Outside of that, I can't see how we win if we don't win the inside 50-count by at least 10 (that's only 2.5 entries per quarter and we should get that many out of winning at the stop) - we just HAVE to get multiple chances against this defensive system - and it goes without saying that our small forwards need to get to work with chase/tackle/intercept pressure...I would play West, Weightman, VDM and McNeil and try and get them wound up into a bit of a frenzy before the game - even risking a couple of free kicks/50m penalties by just being a bit over the top aggressive...those backs - outside of Toohey who swings a bit from one-end to the other these days - are not great kicks and need to be put under serious heat.

What else? Not much. Defenders defend - be measured with the footy until half-way then break at speed (no stupid goals from defensive half turnovers vs these guys - they are too hard to score against to take chances like that) and our mid group go to work and take them apart...we have a serious midfield advantage on talent alone and we need those guys to take a toll on some pretty average players in the Geelong centre square gang.

Axe Man
17-07-2024, 02:50 PM
Thanks mjp. Can you please elaborate on the seal and support system - I don't think I have come across that term before.

comrade
17-07-2024, 02:51 PM
Ok, I can handle that. My takeaway is that it?s a line ball game at best.

Mantis
17-07-2024, 03:08 PM
Ok, I can handle that. My takeaway is that it?s a line ball game at best.

And we always go really well in line-ball games with Geelong.

Eastdog
17-07-2024, 03:38 PM
Thnaks mjp.

Will be going in as underdogs again so hopefully we can get the job done. A tough ask that is for sure but not impossible at all.

We were so close last time in Gather Round against the Cats and I feel we should have won. We negated Hawkins that night very well but not Cameron who was the difference.

GVGjr
17-07-2024, 03:45 PM
Thanks MJP, lets hope the coaches have worked out some tactics to curb Geelong.
To me, Cameron then Miers pose the biggest threats then Stewart and Stengle. We are going to need to be something near perfect to beat them.

angelopetraglia
17-07-2024, 03:53 PM
Thank you MJP. Great summary.

I believe the key to winning is to stop them getting easy goals "out the back" on either turnover or them getting through our forward press too easily. That is the way they always seem to beat us. We dominate possesion, inside 50m and the territory game, but they make us pay every single time we have a turnover or defensive lapse.

Rocco Jones
17-07-2024, 04:07 PM
And we always go really well in line-ball games with Geelong.

Tbf we got better in line ball games vs Geelong than we do in games we should win vs Geelong.

mjp
17-07-2024, 05:03 PM
Thanks mjp. Can you please elaborate on the seal and support system - I don't think I have come across that term before.

Umm - I can try. They basically 'block'/'check' the leading lane/jumping path of the oppo forwards on the hotline and have a spare come in to intercept. They 'SEAL' the leading lane with one player and use a spare/floater to (support) aka mark it.

Henry, Kolodjashnij, Blicavs, De Koning, Zac Guthrie, Touhy and of course Stewart...they all do it. I think they 100% push the 5m rule to it's absolute limit and often 'hold' vs block but it is very hard to officiate. Half the problem of course is the secondary forwards who let interceptors like Stewart run their own race whilst 'leading to space'...space their team-mates were never gonna see or be able to kick the ball into because, like...pressure in the mids from Atkins, Duncan etc al. You have to play one-v-one against them and just create a contest - don't let them create 2v1's where the '1' is being 'sealed' away from the ball.

Chris Scott is a very good coach as an aside.

Eastdog
17-07-2024, 11:21 PM
Last time v Geelong Round 4 Gather around

Score from turnover Geel 7.6.48 WB 5.5.35
Score from stoppage WB 8.2.50 Geel 5.5.35
Score from Kick In Geel 2.0.12 WB 1.0.6

Score from def half WB 7.2.44 Geel 6.6.42
Score from fwd half Geel 5.4.34 WB 4.5.29
Score from centre Geel 3.1.19 WB 3.0.18

Tackles WB 66 Geel 60
Clearances WB 53 Geel 44
Inside 50 Geel 55 WB 51

Eastdog
17-07-2024, 11:42 PM
Last 5 matches Western Bulldogs


Score sources

Ranked 13 scores from turnover
Ranked 3 scores from stoppage
Ranked 12 scores from kick ins


Score origin

Ranked 10 scores from def half
Ranked 14 scores from fwd half
Ranked 1 scores from centre bounce


Defence

Ranked 15 defence 1v1
Ranked 14 % of 1v1 def contests lost
Ranked 12 total tackles
Ranked 12 tackles inside 50
Ranked 12 spoils






Last 5 Matches Geelong

Score sources

Scores from turnovers ranked 7
Scores from stoppages ranked 6
Scores from kick in ranked 11


Score origin

Score from def half ranked 12
Score from Fwd half ranked 5
Score from centre bounce ranked 4


Defence

Def 1v1 ranked 11
% 1v1 contests loss ranked 2
Total tackles ranked 5
Tackles inside 50 ranked 2
Spoils ranked 15

Eastdog
17-07-2024, 11:48 PM
Western Bulldogs 20:28
Geelong 27:34

https://youtu.be/n1UjsiItoo4?si=SqKj400w_fjP2K7P

jeemak
18-07-2024, 12:43 AM
We have to take the short diagonal kick outside if it's there, a bit like WCE used to do to get themselves out of their back half on the old Subi ground.

Just keep creeping forward until we're at the halfway mark, and then think about going laterally or directly. Either way, just be patient and get deep enough, instead of just going long and narrow from deep in defence.

Mofra
18-07-2024, 07:57 AM
We have to take the short diagonal kick outside if it's there, a bit like WCE used to do to get themselves out of their back half on the old Subi ground.

Just keep creeping forward until we're at the halfway mark, and then think about going laterally or directly. Either way, just be patient and get deep enough, instead of just going long and narrow from deep in defence.
A few teams killed us last year with this method. IIRC GWS basically walked the ball to the wing time and time again this way. It may be a bit harder to execute on a narrower ground (easier to defend).

Happy Days
18-07-2024, 09:55 AM
Something I’ve noticed with Dangerfield this year - he is trying to do a whole lot and is playing really selfish footy. I would kinda lean into putting our defensive time elsewhere.

Does McNeil have it in him to not let Miers get the ball 40-60m from goal?

Mantis
18-07-2024, 10:37 AM
Something I’ve noticed with Dangerfield this year - he is trying to do a whole lot and is playing really selfish footy. I would kinda lean into putting our defensive time elsewhere.

Does McNeil have it in him to not let Miers get the ball 40-60m from goal?

Wouldn't it be better to get a defender like Bramble or Freijah to do this?

If we are going to continue to play Gallagher, which I'm against he could also be an option.

bornadog
18-07-2024, 10:43 AM
My biggest concern is stopping Cameron. In the past we haven't had a player that could match up on him. Gardner failed, Keath Failed, I don't think Buku could go with him. Does Lobb take him on? Old team mates, who know each others game, except Lobb never played back at GWS, but Lobb played along side Cameron, so should know something about how he plays.

Happy Days
18-07-2024, 10:47 AM
Wouldn't it be better to get a defender like Bramble or Freijah to do this?

If we are going to continue to play Gallagher, which I'm against he could also be an option.

You’re right. For some reason I confused myself into thinking Miers was getting goal assists kicking into his defensive 50.

I feel like Gallagher has been super ineffective to completely lit up as a tagger whenever we’ve tried it so wouldn’t feel great about it.

Grantysghost
18-07-2024, 10:49 AM
My biggest concern is stopping Cameron. In the past we haven't had a player that could match up on him. Gardner failed, Keath Failed, I don't think Buku could go with him. Does Lobb take him on? Old team mates, who know each others game, except Lobb never played back at GWS, but Lobb played along side Cameron, so should know something about how he plays.

I can recall the last game in the match day thread we were all screaming for something to be done as he was playing basically midfield and then floating into the forward gaps in between the lines.

Hopefully we have learnt.

Bullies
18-07-2024, 02:57 PM
My biggest concern is stopping Cameron. In the past we haven't had a player that could match up on him. Gardner failed, Keath Failed, I don't think Buku could go with him. Does Lobb take him on? Old team mates, who know each others game, except Lobb never played back at GWS, but Lobb played along side Cameron, so should know something about how he plays. Just not Buku. Cameron is a clever footballer who goes to where the ball is going to go not to where the ball is. Buku did ok on Curnow but Cameron is a different beast. Buku just can't defend as he gets lost ball watching and has no touch on his opponents. Cameron worked him over the last time we played them. I'm sure Cameron would be hoping Buku plays on him.

whythelongface
20-07-2024, 11:38 PM
Important players (for them):

Dangerfield:
- Not what he was but still led the Cats in metres gained last week. Will drive hard with his legs out of clearance which we (and every team to be fair) struggles to handle. Contested ball winner, clearance winner. In theory dangerous when resting forward but reality generally a bit different.

Cameron:
- Gun tall forward who 'seems' most dangerous when starting deep and being given license to run wherever with the goal square as his start and end point. Kicks goals by the bucketful.

Stewart:
- Was a half-back who didn't play on anyone and just took intercept marks. Now is an inside mid who doesn't play on anyone and takes intercept marks. Traditionally our number #1 receiver in games vs Cats.

Holmes:
- Hard running mid. More outside than inside but goes when it's his turn. Excellent transition runner.

Miers:
- Annoying half forward with an annoying kicking style who is really good at one thing - mid-forward connections. Sadly for us, it's quite an important thing. Luckily (for us) it's a skill that is somewhat compromised with the cats more fluid/post Hawkins forward line (though if Rohan keeps planting himself deep that could become a real issue).

That's kind of it. I mean, yeah, they have a nice small forward (Stengle) and a tricky half-forward match-up (Dempsey) but their backs are workmanlike - they get the job done through game-plan (Chris Scott creates a plus one and they have a disciplined and effective though bordering on illegal seal and support style system) and well, that's kind of it.

They are set up to kick 12-14 goals every game and restrict the oppo to around abouts 8-10...like I said, they do it through system in the mids/behind the ball with talent leading the way inside forward half. The decline (and now absence) of Hawkins has compromised this method...I am guessing they are hoping Rohan together with a young tall like Neale can generate 2-3 goals per game and right the ship - it certainly worked against Collingwood last week and Essendon the week before, but they couldn't deal with Carlton's mids the week before and whilst they still probably scored ENOUGH vs the Blues for their usual plan to 'work', Carlton had nearly 60 inside 50's and were able to isolate and overwhelm the Geelong backs.

========

So. There is a clear 'method' to beat Geelong and in many ways we executed that method very well way back in gather round (round 4)...we dominated clearance that night and - despite the final numbers - 'mostly' dominated inside 50's. Sadly in q3 we let ourselves down and the Cat's kicked 6 goals...that should NEVER have happened and ultimately despite our strong last quarter we couldn't quite get it done. What's the method:

Own the mids:
- Geelong aren't strong in this area and are kind of set up to 'break even'. To beat them, win clearance, win hard ball and win the loose ball.

Own the footy:
- Geelong at their best get out to a quick 2-3 goal lead then defend with the footy/own possession for large tracts of the game. They are confident/competent with ball in hand and don't panic when sharing the ball around (unlike so many other sides). Don't let them do this - and in contrast, it is important to find hit-ups through the corridor and 'pull them apart' defensively to break their seal and support system.

360-degree forwards:
- Geelong will 100% come forward to defend with the fatside players sliding behind the defensive group to provide support (this is kind of a contrast to Carlton in terms of defensive system). Forwards need to be active - fishing both horizontally and vertically AND continually changing positions (deepest to highest, highest to deepest) with the ball in transition to disrupt those defensive patterns. Honestly? I think this is almost a bridge too far for Jamarra who seems to want a 'set' reference point and I'm not sure this is a game for him at his current stage of development...Darcy breaks systems by taking catches with his go-go-Gadget arms and Naughton (if he plays) does the same by jumping on heads and generally crashing into people...

===========
What do we need to do NOW we didn't do in Round 5?
- I've kinda been all over the place in what I've written so far (sorry) but it's been more stream of consciousness than an actual preview. But the #1 thing is we have got to share the load. Last time we had the 3x leading possession winners on the ground (you know who) but only 6 of the leading 17...that's quite frankly unacceptable and the total lack of drive from behind the footy - pretty quiet nights for Dale, JJ, Bramble, Duryea et al - really told as the game went along. Join in boys.

Outside of that, I can't see how we win if we don't win the inside 50-count by at least 10 (that's only 2.5 entries per quarter and we should get that many out of winning at the stop) - we just HAVE to get multiple chances against this defensive system - and it goes without saying that our small forwards need to get to work with chase/tackle/intercept pressure...I would play West, Weightman, VDM and McNeil and try and get them wound up into a bit of a frenzy before the game - even risking a couple of free kicks/50m penalties by just being a bit over the top aggressive...those backs - outside of Toohey who swings a bit from one-end to the other these days - are not great kicks and need to be put under serious heat.

What else? Not much. Defenders defend - be measured with the footy until half-way then break at speed (no stupid goals from defensive half turnovers vs these guys - they are too hard to score against to take chances like that) and our mid group go to work and take them apart...we have a serious midfield advantage on talent alone and we need those guys to take a toll on some pretty average players in the Geelong centre square gang.

Think we just about did all the things you stated mjp. The most telling statistic was inside 50s - we won that by 22 (61-38). That is hugely dominant. Final score flattered the Cats.