Coaching Questions: The +1 Defender.

[mjp]

Just a quick structure question.

I noticed last night (and it happens a bit) that when we end up with a SPARE behind the footy, it is so often Duryea who is that spare.

Now - I find this interesting as there are generally two kind of schools of thought here:

#1. The 'Spare' should be your best 'PLUS' defender...that way, you can let the players with high level 1-v-1 skills to take their oppo and just do what you do best. Be the extra. Let the 'other' players be 1-v-1.

#2. The 'Spare' should be your best DEFENDER. Get everyone else to go 1-v-1...and free up your 'smartest' player who is best able to sum up the situation. This - of course - means that another player who might not be quite as adept is forced to play 1-v-1 footy.

There's another element of being the spare...that is the player who will be LOOSE if you win the ball back - so they need to be able to sum things up with ball in hand and identity the 'best' ball movement mode (fast, medium, slow etc) given the state of the game...

Given Duryea seems to be a good 1-v-1 player I guess we've gone with #2. Does this mean he's the best decision maker with the ball and without the ball in the back half?

If yes, I have lots of thoughts!! Does this complicate the "Duryea replacement question"?? Does this mean we need to seriously think about getting him back on the main list and giving him a new contract? OR - does this all mean that Duryea isn't the 1-v-1 player I have always thought he was and we are trying to take him OUT of those situations??

[comrade]

He?s the most experienced, smartest defender we have so I think we just try our best to make him the spare to free up and help his teammates - whether it?s in a contest or just directing traffic. He?s fine 1 on 1, but better as the plus. We need to find a replacement for him, for sure. Williams is a candidate.

[Mofra]

Let's step back a bit - who was pushing back as the extra?
On TV it looked like English channeled his inner Scott Wynd to be that player pushing back, letting Darcy take ruck duels in the F50.

It was the role he excelled at a few years ago when we struggled for KPDs so he had to do it to support the defenders. Given we're running with three talls in the F50 so English probably closes space rather than helps if he runs forward, I'm happy to keep running with it.

The spare needs to be smart & experienced so the only other candidate we have for the 'spare' is Dale, and no team is going to allow him to stay as the spare for long - he'll get a defensive forward to follow him everywhere which makes it easy to create a leading lane for the other opposition forwards (negating our spare). Duryea seems a pretty good option in the role for the guy no opposition coach is going to play close.

[macca]

Let's step back a bit - who was pushing back as the extra?
On TV it looked like English channeled his inner Scott Wynd to be that player pushing back, letting Darcy take ruck duels in the F50.

It was the role he excelled at a few years ago when we struggled for KPDs so he had to do it to support the defenders. Given we're running with three talls in the F50 so English probably closes space rather than helps if he runs forward, I'm happy to keep running with it.

The spare needs to be smart & experienced so the only other candidate we have for the 'spare' is Dale, and no team is going to allow him to stay as the spare for long - he'll get a defensive forward to follow him everywhere which makes it easy to create a leading lane for the other opposition forwards (negating our spare). Duryea seems a pretty good option in the role for the guy no opposition coach is going to play close.

Great point mofra. I was reminiscing of Wynd when English took some of those marks at the back. Wynd was a defensive pillar in those years of 96-97.

I reckon that is where we are going to get max value with English. He will also provide the tall marking option on the kickout. It is good now that Lobb is down back as well, so it gives 2 talls now in the back half of the ground.

Duryea is such a good reader of the ball and his experience has showed this year. Just knows where to find it and be in the right places.

[Go_Dogs]

Given our current defensive group is it a surprise? Let’s see how it looks when we’ve got a full complement.

[Uninformed]

Duryea strikes me as good one on one, very smart reading the play and giving the assist and, though not in the Dale class, still very sound with distribution.

Can see why the coaches like him playing on.

[mjp]

Let's step back a bit - who was pushing back as the extra?


Well - English was the ruckman at the stop so he wasn't the extra. Duryea was the extra.

Now - English could push back in general play but pretty hard to be the ruckman at the stop and the spare btb.

[jazzadogs]

Could it be because he's the best on field coach, mjp? So we trust him to make the right decisions for when HE needs to go, but also coach the other defenders into when THEY need to go/cover off/change position?

Have you noticed this with Duryea previously, or just last night?

I wonder if Jones comes in for Coffield at some point, assuming Buku and Lobb also play, whether Buku becomes the spare as per your first option - the best plus defender who is not so good 1v1.

[Mitcha]

Just a quick structure question.

I noticed last night (and it happens a bit) that when we end up with a SPARE behind the footy, it is so often Duryea who is that spare.

Now - I find this interesting as there are generally two kind of schools of thought here:

#1. The 'Spare' should be your best 'PLUS' defender...that way, you can let the players with high level 1-v-1 skills to take their oppo and just do what you do best. Be the extra. Let the 'other' players be 1-v-1.

#2. The 'Spare' should be your best DEFENDER. Get everyone else to go 1-v-1...and free up your 'smartest' player who is best able to sum up the situation. This - of course - means that another player who might not be quite as adept is forced to play 1-v-1 footy.

There's another element of being the spare...that is the player who will be LOOSE if you win the ball back - so they need to be able to sum things up with ball in hand and identity the 'best' ball movement mode (fast, medium, slow etc) given the state of the game...

Given Duryea seems to be a good 1-v-1 player I guess we've gone with #2. Does this mean he's the best decision maker with the ball and without the ball in the back half?

If yes, I have lots of thoughts!! Does this complicate the "Duryea replacement question"?? Does this mean we need to seriously think about getting him back on the main list and giving him a new contract? OR - does this all mean that Duryea isn't the 1-v-1 player I have always thought he was and we are trying to take him OUT of those situations??
You forgot option 3 The Goddard spare where you just go back to pad your stats, accept handballs and outlet kicks from actual defenders and point and get cranky when they get beaten and you don't get the easy ball on a platter not to mention the unprovoked attack on a bowl of pretzels.
Doc is grossly underated by most and together with Liam Jones holds our back half together when our mids dont work back hard enough. Looking forward to when Jones returns I can only see Coffield being the one to miss with Buku becoming the third key back.

[lemmon]

I think when you look at the backline over the weekend, Duryea almost has to play as the loose. Buku and Lobb are having to play accountable and take the key forwards. Coffield seemed to be doing the same with Henry.

Bramble hasn't demonstrated a capacity to impact in the air and I think that's the weakest point in Dale's game. Freijah looks like he might develop into a player that can do it, but he hasn't show it yet.

That only really leaves Duryea - he's a smart ball reader and will get to the right spots, plus he's brave in the air for his size. I agree with the on-field coach element - I imagine he's doing a lot of instructing in terms of getting Bramble and Freijah to the right spots and to the right opponents, which probably leaves him as the loose.

I imagine that probably looks a little different if Jones is in the side and Buku or Coffield can play smaller. That probably means Duryea has to play a more accountable small defender role and we prefer one of those bigger guys as the intercept marker in the air. It seemed like Buku was the guy getting loose and taking intercepts during his first crack in the side at the start of the season.

[Go_Dogs]

Given our current defensive group is it a surprise? Let’s see how it looks when we’ve got a full complement.

Assume it was the case again for parts yesterday based on the commentary. Seemed Buku did this a it also.

[SquirrelGrip]

I wasn't at the game but it looked like at times Rhylee came off half back at centre bounces. Am I right in that Bont did that as well? Bramble started on a wing, but did he then go back to defence?

It certainly looked like we were trying something different yesterday, but I just couldn't tell on TV and the commentators didn't pick anything up.

Can anyone help here?

[jazzadogs]

I wasn't at the game but it looked like at times Rhylee came off half back at centre bounces. Am I right in that Bont did that as well? Bramble started on a wing, but did he then go back to defence?

It certainly looked like we were trying something different yesterday, but I just couldn't tell on TV and the commentators didn't pick anything up.

Can anyone help here?

There was a post on the GameDay thread from someone who was at the game, saying this is what happened. Very surprised the channel 7 experts didn't pick up on it /sarcasm/

[SquirrelGrip]

There was a post on the GameDay thread from someone who was at the game, saying this is what happened. Very surprised the channel 7 experts didn't pick up on it /sarcasm/

So I wonder what was the set up in each arc and what then happened after the bounce. Who went where?

[Mitcha]

There was a post on the GameDay thread from someone who was at the game, saying this is what happened. Very surprised the channel 7 experts didn't pick up on it /sarcasm/

The channel 7 commentary team phoned it in during most of the second half. Most of the chat was about Pendlebury's upcoming 400th game and BT wouldn't let it go, ruined the coverage and quite frankly disrepectful for what was happening out on the ground.

[jazzadogs]

The channel 7 commentary team phoned it in during most of the second half. Most of the chat was about Pendlebury's upcoming 400th game and BT wouldn't let it go, ruined the coverage and quite frankly disrepectful for what was happening out on the ground.

I think there was five minutes left in the final quarter when BT said "and I guess we should talk about the Bulldogs who have been very impressive". Thanks BT.

[jazzadogs]

So I wonder what was the set up in each arc and what then happened after the bounce. Who went where?

I wondered the same thing.

It must have been the 'fake' half back (Bont, West) moves to the middle, and one of the nominated wings or forwards moves to defence?

Or do Sydney have a half forward who always moves up to be an extra mid, and this was just our way of negating that tactic?

[Sedat]

The channel 7 commentary team phoned it in during most of the second half. Most of the chat was about Pendlebury's upcoming 400th game and BT wouldn't let it go, ruined the coverage and quite frankly disrepectful for what was happening out on the ground.
I am always bemused by the anti Fox Footy commentary sentiment sometimes aired here. They are far from perfect but they are a mile in front of the total garbage served up by ch 7. Next year will be bliss not having to listen to those useless pricks ever again.

[Grantysghost]

I am always bemused by the anti Fox Footy commentary sentiment sometimes aired here. They are far from perfect but they are a mile in front of the total garbage served in by ch 7. Next year will be bliss not having to listen to those useless pricks ever again.

Are fox commentating all games? It annoys me they do it remotely however you're right they are really far better.

[jeemak]

I am always bemused by the anti Fox Footy commentary sentiment sometimes aired here. They are far from perfect but they are a mile in front of the total garbage served in by ch 7. Next year will be bliss not having to listen to those useless pricks ever again.

I've not noticed anti-Fox commentary sentiment around here, particularly in comparison to the frankly weird and perverted stuff ch7 has dished up over the years.


Were they commentating from the SCG yesterday? I'd like to say if not that had something to do with them not picking up the positional pieces mentioned in this thread, but I'm probably being lenient.

[bornadog]

I am always bemused by the anti Fox Footy commentary sentiment sometimes aired here. They are far from perfect but they are a mile in front of the total garbage served in by ch 7. Next year will be bliss not having to listen to those useless pricks ever again.

I will say, I can't Gary Lyon and Brownie

[Happy Days]

I used to really like BT (his 2016 finals run is nearly as iconic as ours), but did something really awful happen to him recently? He’s an unbelievably miserable guy to listen to now.

[Bulldog Joe]

I wasn't at the game but it looked like at times Rhylee came off half back at centre bounces. Am I right in that Bont did that as well? Bramble started on a wing, but did he then go back to defence?

It certainly looked like we were trying something different yesterday, but I just couldn't tell on TV and the commentators didn't pick anything up.

Can anyone help here?

I didn't pick it up yesterday, but at Geelong, West often started back flank and so did Treloar.
It seemed there that Geelong were bringing a forward into the mids after each centre bounce and we simply used a mid rotation from half back to match them.

[Scorlibo]

Libba was also at half back for a few centre bounces.

Your guess seems most likely jazza? fascinating stuff, and obviously it worked.

Another part of the game that was noticeable was how keen we were to move the ball forward at every opportunity. It had to be a coaching instruction. Everyone was going for the clearing kick out of congestion.

Maybe it?s related to the half back - mid rotation? We created even numbers forward of the ball knowing that we could get them in the air?

[soupman]

The times I noticed West do it he was next to Gulden, so I wasn't sure if it was in a defensive sense. Bont was definitely there to roll up as the plus one though. As someone above said Libba did it at least once as well.

Tbh most of the times I noticed it we won the clearance before they even got to the contest so was largely irrelevant.

[whythelongface]

I didn't pick it up yesterday, but at Geelong, West often started back flank and so did Treloar.
It seemed there that Geelong were bringing a forward into the mids after each centre bounce and we simply used a mid rotation from half back to match them.

Treloar definitely started off the HBF a few times at the centre bounces. He then moved quickly into the square once the ball was bounced. Effectively giving us an extra mid. It didn’t appear like anyone was on him so effectively he was free to roam. Great when we get possession (majority of time) but also allows him to pick up an opposition player running through if they get the ball.

[Bulldog Joe]

Treloar definitely started off the HBF a few times at the centre bounces. He then moved quickly into the square once the ball was bounced. Effectively giving us an extra mid. It didn’t appear like anyone was on him so effectively he was free to roam. Great when we get possession (majority of time) but also allows him to pick up an opposition player running through if they get the ball.

That is definitely what we were doing at Geelong.
Will pay attention this week to see if it is something we continue to do.

[Pleather Sole]

The channel 7 commentary team phoned it in during most of the second half. Most of the chat was about Pendlebury's upcoming 400th game and BT wouldn't let it go, ruined the coverage and quite frankly disrepectful for what was happening out on the ground.

Agreed, BT has been for a long time one of the most unbearable commentators, self indulgent and sometimes plain daft. There are a few in the 7 comms box who are professional and call the game without ego but so much of it is backslapping jocularity without a shred of analysis. The pox team aren't perfect either and can sometimes grind my gears but they do focus on analysis more generally than 7. Paying for Kayo and still being subjected to BT is a con. I've tried abc radio with the telly muted but the broadcast delay is longer now than it was a couple of years ago. Yesterday it was about 10 seconds. So if anyone has any tips on how to slow down the radio that'd be grand.

[azabob]

At times Dale also seemed to start as a wingman, was he trying to break the tag or and then swap with the mid who was at HB?

[MrMahatma]

Agreed, BT has been for a long time one of the most unbearable commentators, self indulgent and sometimes plain daft. There are a few in the 7 comms box who are professional and call the game without ego but so much of it is backslapping jocularity without a shred of analysis. The pox team aren't perfect either and can sometimes grind my gears but they do focus on analysis more generally than 7. Paying for Kayo and still being subjected to BT is a con. I've tried abc radio with the telly muted but the broadcast delay is longer now than it was a couple of years ago. Yesterday it was about 10 seconds. So if anyone has any tips on how to slow down the radio that'd be grand.

You can listen to the radio on the afl app and just pause it for a few seconds to sync up.