Western Bulldogs or Footscray? Where do you stand?

[Grantysghost]

If the club asked you to vote today on which name you wanted for our AFL sides what would you choose?

Stick with our current moniker : Western Bulldogs or restore the name Footscray?

Have a vote and give us your reasons!

[Grantysghost]

I'll start.

I've never been one for nostalgia. It smells bad, and whilst The Beatles may be the world's greatest band, Now and Then was best left in John Lennon's draw. The guy with Catcher in the Rye didn't even like it.

The Western Bulldogs encompasses all of the magnificent west, wonderful multi cutural suburbs like the St. Albans of Buku Khamis and the Hoppers Crossing of Brad Johnson; or even further west the Daylesford of Chris Grant and the regional centre of Ballarat where we now have a significant presence.

I get the progressive latte sipping lefties (joke I'm more one that not) want to own Footscray again as it's now hip and gentrified, however you're fooling yourselves brah, the Footscray this team was named after is long gone, it's working class roots replaced with man buns and hipster beards born in facial mud and doc Martin boots.

I mean crikey, the heroin dealers in the mall even have eftpos now.

And wont you think of the kids: all those supporters 30 and under who probably have only ever identified as Western Bulldogs supporters. Let's be forward thinking my fabulous wooftain friends.

So, no I say, the past has had its day, western bulldogs not footiscray!

Rocco I throw my gauntlet at your feet :cool: !!

[hujsh]

And wont you think of the kids: all those supporters 30 and under who probably have only ever identified as Western Bulldogs supporters. Let's be forward thinking my fabulous wooftain friends.

Also over 30

[angelopetraglia]

Too much time has passed. We changed our name in 1997.

As an example. My teenage children LOVE the Western Bulldogs. They never knew Footscray. Too many supporters would never had exposure to Footscray. Say you were 10 in 1997. You are now 37. So any supporters who are under ~35 have no affilation.

Also, our most successful era ever has been under the Western Bulldogs. I would just leave it. It ain't perfect, but it is who we are now.

[jazzadogs]

I'm not really fussed either way, but if I was genuinely given a members vote I'd go Footscray.

I'm 34, only remember the team as Western Bulldogs, but I think it is a really generic name and our history is important to recognise.

I don't think being Footscray would affect any of our corporate partnerships, and I don't think it would have any negative effect on fans/membership numbers.

[Hotdog60]

I'm 64 and I wouldn't go back to locking in a suburb that may be and I am guessing 80% of its population doesn't follow Australian rules.
Changing to the Western Bulldogs gives anyone in the western suburbs an alliance to the club if they want to follow a club.
Footscray nearly died it's time to let sleeping Dogs lie so I voted to stay to move forward you have to change with the times.

[chef]

Carn the Scray

[GVGjr]

My slight personal preference would be for a return to the Footscray name but I feel that ship sailed a while back.
To be honest I feel that because nothing is really broken we don't need to fix it.

I voted Footscray but I don't think undoing the previous change does anything positive.

I wonder if it would have a change to (Genuine) memberships numbers or not?

[GVGjr]

My slight personal preference would be for a return to the Footscray name but I feel that ship sailed a while back.
To be honest I feel that because nothing is really broken we don't need to fix it.

I voted Footscray but I don't think undoing the previous change does anything positive.

I wonder if it would have a change to (Genuine) memberships numbers or not?

We probably have a lot of members who have always just supported the Western Bulldogs. I quite like the balance of the AFL and VFL names for our teams.

[angelopetraglia]

We probably have a lot of members who have always just supported the Western Bulldogs. I quite like the balance of the AFL and VFL names for our teams.

Agree. I like the balance too. I also like the F.F.C. on the back of the jumper too.

[Grantysghost]

We probably have a lot of members who have always just supported the Western Bulldogs. I quite like the balance of the AFL and VFL names for our teams.
Plus the Aflw team has only ever been named Western Bulldogs.

In all honesty as long as the name Bulldogs is included and we are red white and blue I would be happy.

Western Melbourne Bulldogs for eg. but then Ballarat isnt included.

[Pleather Sole]

Footscray for sure. I understand why the generification decision was made but I think it was a bad decision. No-one could pay my Essendon, Carlton, Richmond, Melbourne, St Kilda, Geelong or North Melbourne supporters enough to switch their clubs name to something nebulous. My cousin would but he goes for GWS....
My young adult kids who grew up in Sydney all prefer Footscray too. Theres already too much meaningless marketing in AFL I think the benefits outweigh the cons. There was something shameful about the re-name, be healthy to acknowledge and reclaim Footscray.

For all teams Footscray Bulldogs be it AFL, V, W, VFLW. The team of the mighty west.

[Rocket Science]

The corporatisation of our identity still feels like a sad capitulation.

To desperately propose yourself as something else after a century because you feel so encumbered and diminished by who you are, and by extension the area and people you represent. Sad.

Sadder still because some nineties marketing spivs said so.

Yeah they were desperate times, but we erred.

More specifically, the actual name adopted was weak as piss, meaningless. It projects dilution, not pride or strength. It speaks of and for, nothing.

Some smarter, braver stewardship could've handled things differently, and suspect they might if faced with the same set of difficult choices today.

Carna Scrays.

[jazzadogs]

We probably have a lot of members who have always just supported the Western Bulldogs. I quite like the balance of the AFL and VFL names for our teams.

The rare self quote and response. Kudos to the king!

[GVGjr]

The rare self quote and response. Kudos to the king!

It was either that or an edit :)

[Scorlibo]

I've never really understood the change to 'Western' except as a branding exercise to make it clear to the league that we were attempting to broaden the fan base and therefore the club's revenue.

Does anyone new to the game and living in the Western suburbs really strike up affinity with the name? Most newbies to the game I've come across need it explained that Western is 'Western suburbs of Melbourne'. They tend to think that we're a WA team, and why wouldn't they in a national competition?

We're still based in Footscray, Footscray is still the heartland of the West, and it's a REAL PLACE. Search for Western on google maps and you'll see where your nearest Western Union outlet is located.

Should Carlton rebrand to the Northern Blues? Should Hawthorn to the Eastern Hawks? Please. A football club needs a place to call home!

And this isn't about nostalgia. I've barracked for the Western Bulldogs for the vast majority of my life. Footscray just makes sense.

[Grantysghost]

I've never really understood the change to 'Western' except as a branding exercise to make it clear to the league that we were attempting to broaden the fan base and therefore the club's revenue.

Does anyone new to the game and living in the Western suburbs really strike up affinity with the name? Most newbies to the game I've come across need it explained that Western is 'Western suburbs of Melbourne'. They tend to think that we're a WA team, and why wouldn't they in a national competition?

We're still based in Footscray, Footscray is still the heartland of the West, and it's a REAL PLACE. Search for Western on google maps and you'll see where your nearest Western Union outlet is located.

Should Carlton rebrand to the Northern Blues? Should Hawthorn to the Eastern Hawks? Please. A football club needs a place to call home!

And this isn't about nostalgia. I've barracked for the Western Bulldogs for the vast majority of my life. Footscray just makes sense.
Hawthorn train in Mulgrave and play in Richmond.
These names are pretty meaningless now.

[Scorlibo]

Hawthorn train in Mulgrave and play in Richmond.
These names are pretty meaningless now.

Not in hearts and minds. If you grow up in another country or city and have since moved, your mail gets delivered to your new address but that doesn't make it 'home'.

[Happy Days]

This is some Port Adelaide shit. I don’t care about it at all.

[Happy Days]

And yes I’m aware that posting on the internet about how much you don’t care about something is for dorks.

[SonofScray]

I've never really understood the change to 'Western' except as a branding exercise to make it clear to the league that we were attempting to broaden the fan base and therefore the club's revenue.

Does anyone new to the game and living in the Western suburbs really strike up affinity with the name? Most newbies to the game I've come across need it explained that Western is 'Western suburbs of Melbourne'. They tend to think that we're a WA team, and why wouldn't they in a national competition?

We're still based in Footscray, Footscray is still the heartland of the West, and it's a REAL PLACE. Search for Western on google maps and you'll see where your nearest Western Union outlet is located.

Should Carlton rebrand to the Northern Blues? Should Hawthorn to the Eastern Hawks? Please. A football club needs a place to call home!

And this isn't about nostalgia. I've barracked for the Western Bulldogs for the vast majority of my life. Footscray just makes sense.

Re: establishing the brands as representative of the West.

Footscray has always been emblematic/associated with the broader region of the Western Suburbs. I don’t think it ever really excluded anyone in any meaningful way.

The name change came as part of a suite of positive changes, it’s difficult for folk to untangle them all so that particular element which was unnecessary and just a fad at the time, it’s stuck for us.

[HOSE B ROMERO]

I'm fine either way. I voted for the current set up. I liked the vfl team being Footscray. I can see why they made the change back in '97.

[HOSE B ROMERO]

I'll start.

I've never been one for nostalgia. It smells bad, and whilst The Beatles may be the world's greatest band, Now and Then was best left in John Lennon's draw. The guy with Catcher in the Rye didn't even like it.

The Western Bulldogs encompasses all of the magnificent west, wonderful multi cutural suburbs like the St. Albans of Buku Khamis and the Hoppers Crossing of Brad Johnson; or even further west the Daylesford of Chris Grant and the regional centre of Ballarat where we now have a significant presence.

I get the progressive latte sipping lefties (joke I'm more one that not) want to own Footscray again as it's now hip and gentrified, however you're fooling yourselves brah, the Footscray this team was named after is long gone, it's working class roots replaced with man buns and hipster beards born in facial mud and doc Martin boots.

I mean crikey, the heroin dealers in the mall even have eftpos now.

And wont you think of the kids: all those supporters 30 and under who probably have only ever identified as Western Bulldogs supporters. Let's be forward thinking my fabulous wooftain friends.

So, no I say, the past has had its day, western bulldogs not footiscray!

Rocco I throw my gauntlet at your feet :cool: !!

More gold from GG.

[SonofScray]

It’s not an issue I feel a deep burning passion about anymore, with the club still the Footscray Football Club, the FFC on the short, the VFL team name, and our home base still in the heartland.

I’d change it in a heartbeat though, given the chance.

The one thing that still irritates me is the way the change was made.

[bornadog]

We probably have a lot of members who have always just supported the Western Bulldogs. I quite like the balance of the AFL and VFL names for our teams.

It has been a long time now since the name change and many young Fans don't know who Footscray is.

Like you I like the way the club has split the AFL/VFL names with Footscary still there.

[D Mitchell]

1996. The Club was broke. The Board was in serious talks with North Melbourne, St Kilda and another, can?t remember, now. It sent out a questionnaire to members. It was headed something like "In a merger, what do you want to see preserved ?" with a half dozen options. The club subsequently sent out a letter publishing the results. The name and colours followed by daylight. Too many years have passed, I used to have a copy of that questionnaire and the letter giving the results. Preserving the name 'Footscray' and colours were non negotiables.

1997. Smorgo?s Board takes over, changes the Jumper and home ground then adopts a trading name. No consultation with the members, no vote, a handover from one Board to another, hardly a whisper in protest. That's capitulation, humiliation. I think of a bloke I?ve heard of called Ben Dover. It wasn't marketing that saved the club for the second time, it was pragmatic management

It's the Footscray Football Club Ltd (ACN 005 226 595) t/a Western Bulldogs Vic 1303245W. Not hard to discontinue a business name.

[Uninformed]

Footscray for me. The other is too much like GWS naming for my liking.

[Dry Rot]

The annexation of Footscray must go down as one of most egregious acts of the 20th Century, alongside the Nazi Germany annexation of Sudetenland and the annexation of East Prussia and Koenigsberg by the Soviet Union. Note that Stalin then changed the name to Kaliningrad.

Like the freedom fighters in Ukraine, we must fight to regain Footscray.

And while we're at it, we need to make St Kilda face up to their very murky past.

Pre-World War I, St Kilda wore the colours of the German imperial flag of red, yellow and black, but realised it was bad for membership after the outbreak of war wearing the colours of the Hun, so they changed to their current colours of red, white and black.

These were the colours of the Nazi Swastika flag.

There's something very wrong at that club.

[1eyedog]

Up the Scraggers!

[Eastdog]

I'm not really fussed either way, but if I was genuinely given a members vote I'd go Footscray.

I'm 34, only remember the team as Western Bulldogs, but I think it is a really generic name and our history is important to recognise.

I don't think being Footscray would affect any of our corporate partnerships, and I don't think it would have any negative effect on fans/membership numbers.

Would vote Footscray as well but honestly not fussed either way as I have been used to the Western Bulldogs. We are still the same club based in Footscray at the Whitten Oval with the over 100 year history and are red white and blue.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

'Western Bulldogs' is very generic and meh to me.

Unrelated but it's why I don't like the 'Western United' name in the A-League - like, is that really the best you can come up with? It's soulless.

Footscray is REAL. It has a soul. It's vibrant and growing. Go back to it.

[Jeanette54]

I remember once writing a small missive detailing the 1950's journey from Vermont (all green and apple orchards then) to the family's spiritual home in Footscray. Back then it was kind of the reverse of Dorothy's journey from the black and white Kansas to the colour of Oz. Footscray was a gritty monotone world of grey, broken only by dull red, tin rooves. Outstanding from this morass of grey, industrial boredom was the tricolour flag atop the John Gent stand, easily seen from my Great Grandmother's Picket Street backyard. Western Oval had a magical feel for a kid of the fifties, and so my heart says yes to club name returning to its Footscray roots.

But I have to say times have changed and it's a new world. Just as I will forever tout EJ as the best Bulldog ever, and never concede that title to The Bont (my Grandfather always loyally supported Alan Hopkins in that argument). So, a new generation of supporters has been born and nurtured with the name Western Bulldogs. I love we still have a Footscray in the VFL, and that Western Oval is still our club's spiritual home. But (whether I like it, or not) the future belongs to the Western Bulldogs, and so I will vote for that. PS. Of course I love the Bont, just don't tell anyone.

[bornadog]

I remember once writing a small missive detailing the 1950's journey from Vermont (all green and apple orchards then) to the family's spiritual home in Footscray. Back then it was kind of the reverse of Dorothy's journey from the black and white Kansas to the colour of Oz. Footscray was a gritty monotone world of grey, broken only by dull red, tin rooves. Outstanding from this morass of grey, industrial boredom was the tricolour flag atop the John Gent stand, easily seen from my Great Grandmother's Picket Street backyard. Western Oval had a magical feel for a kid of the fifties, and so my heart says yes to club name returning to its Footscray roots.

But I have to say times have changed and it's a new world. Just as I will forever tout EJ as the best Bulldog ever, and never concede that title to The Bont (my Grandfather always loyally supported Alan Hopkins in that argument). So, a new generation of supporters has been born and nurtured with the name Western Bulldogs. I love we still have a Footscray in the VFL, and that Western Oval is still our club's spiritual home. But (whether I like it, or not) the future belongs to the Western Bulldogs, and so I will vote for that. PS. Of course I love the Bont, just don't tell anyone.

Double like this post

[Prince Imperial]

I was born in 1968 and I recall writing to David Smorgon supporting the move to Princes Park but opposing the name change. He never responded but all these years later I am of the view that he and his taskforce who took over the club when it was again on its knees were correct.

Emotionally, I would prefer Footscray but we now have 27 seasons of history as the Western Bulldogs including AFL and AFLW premierships and finally financial security and a venue and training/admin facility of genuine quality achieved under this latter name.

Our home for over 100 years was known as the Western Oval which is a key part of our heritage and is reflected in our new name. I'm still not convinced that there are no longer quite common negative views of the suburb in the general community given the social problems that are still evident on any visit to its shopping area.

I'm not a Christian but they believe that Jesus is/was both fully human and fully God. In a similar way, I view our club as both fully Footscray and fully Western Bulldogs and hope we can somehow acknowledge them both. This week goes someway towards that.

Of course given my name, I also believe there should be a third option in this poll and thread...

[D Mitchell]

I was born in 1968 and I recall writing to David Smorgon supporting the move to Princes Park but opposing the name change. He never responded but all these years later I am of the view that he and his taskforce who took over the club when it was again on its knees were correct.......

Bolded bits. You were more right than Smorgon. The Club remains the second least supported of Victorian Clubs according to the most recent Roy Morgan survey. Raw numbers might have changed but not proportions. In 1997, the population of Melbourne was 3.3 mil, it's now 5.1 mil, that why the raw numbers have improved. A pity you weren't more persuasive

[Prince Imperial]

Bolded bits. You were more right than Smorgon. The Club remains the second least supported of Victorian Clubs according to the most recent Roy Morgan survey. Raw numbers might have changed but not proportions. In 1997, the population of Melbourne was 3.3 mil, it's now 5.1 mil, that why the raw numbers have improved. A pity you weren't more persuasive

That survey shows we are very close to St Kilda (353k fans over 14 years old to 341k). I very much doubt that we would have been that close to them in 1997 and they almost always had bigger crowds from the 60s onwards than us. However, I strongly suspect that more kids follow us than them today and I reckon it is likely we will go past them in the coming years.

The figures in these annual surveys have some statistical variation and we were ahead of the Demons in the same survey in 2022. Unfortunately, they've were better than us in the 2021-23 years including some match in Perth I vaguely recall. I reckon though back in 1997 they were probably further ahead of us than that last survey.

In terms of club finances, we actually receive the least amount of variable AFL funding of the small Vic 4 and up to $3m less than the Saints and Roos. All of these clubs were stronger than us financially in the late 90s.

There is and was never any hope of us surpassing the other six Vic clubs given their historical success


https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/sydney-swans-are-the-most-widely-supported-afl-club-ahead-of-collingwood-brisbane-and-west-coast

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/winners-and-losers-the-2023-afl-club-funding-ladder-revealed-20230202-p5chix.html

[Hotdog60]

There is and was never any hope of us surpassing the other six Vic clubs given their historical success.

Especially when they are gifted block busters and prime time viewing all that exposure just keeps your supporter base growing.

[angelopetraglia]

Especially when they are gifted block busters and prime time viewing all that exposure just keeps your supporter base growing.

100%

Self fulfilling prophecy.

[D Mitchell]

That survey shows we are very close to St Kilda (353k fans over 14 years old to 341k). I very much doubt that we would have been that close to them in 1997 and they almost always had bigger crowds from the 60s onwards than us. However, I strongly suspect that more kids follow us than them today and I reckon it is likely we will go past them in the coming years.

The figures in these annual surveys have some statistical variation and we were ahead of the Demons in the same survey in 2022. Unfortunately, they've were better than us in the 2021-23 years including some match in Perth I vaguely recall. I reckon though back in 1997 they were probably further ahead of us than that last survey.

In terms of club finances, we actually receive the least amount of variable AFL funding of the small Vic 4 and up to $3m less than the Saints and Roos. All of these clubs were stronger than us financially in the late 90s.

There is and was never any hope of us surpassing the other six Vic clubs given their historical success


https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/sydney-swans-are-the-most-widely-supported-afl-club-ahead-of-collingwood-brisbane-and-west-coast

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/winners-and-losers-the-2023-afl-club-funding-ladder-revealed-20230202-p5chix.html

How wide the variance between 2nd and 3rd worst, how much better managed the Club is than, currently, St Kilda or North, doesn't change the fact that the Club is in no stronger a position, in terms of support than it was pre Smorgon, just much better managed. The business name could have been Tangmalangmloo Bulldogs for all the impact it had on support growth.

Do you not see the irony of support for long term name change coming from someone inspired by the shortest name change in VFA/VFL/AFL history ? What's the story on le changement du nom vers celui d'un membre de la monarchie francaise in largely Cornish originated settled Footscray ?

[Prince Imperial]

How wide the variance between 2nd and 3rd worst, how much better managed the Club is than, currently, St Kilda or North, doesn't change the fact that the Club is in no stronger a position, in terms of support than it was pre Smorgon, just much better managed. The business name could have been Tangmalangmloo Bulldogs for all the impact it had on support growth.

Do you not see the irony of support for long term name change coming from someone inspired by the shortest name change in VFA/VFL/AFL history ? What's the story on le changement du nom vers celui d'un membre de la monarchie francaise in largely Cornish originated settled Footscray ?

The PI name was a short, long ago part of our history that appears bizarre today but was kind of understandable at the time as the death of the Prince at the hands of the Zulus in 1879 meant he was considered a hero of the British Empire in a way that would have resonated with British Footscray for a short period. Of course, as evidenced by the ... in my above post I am being humorous about the name and I don't believe we should change back to it or that it of any relevance to this debate.

Under the WB monitor we have been more successful in obtaining support from different levels of government for our facilities (substantially more than any other Melbourne club) and from corporate sponsors. Mission who chose us over the Demons are by far our longest major sponsor. Having a broader identity is likely to have helped politically in getting government support as it presents that it for a region and not just one suburb.

Unfortunately, we failed under the Footscray name in the League and were once again on the verge of insolvency at the end of 1996 and we were very widely perceived by all and sundry as losers. The WB now are not. There's a lot of reasons for that but it's churlish to assert that the name change hasn't helped us at all off the field.

It is worth having a read of the recent below article about downtown Footscray which presents it in a very negative light. Rightly or wrongly, this situation has not and is not going to help us get support outside the suburb or the corporate world.

[Currently there are approximately 70 retail spaces empty in Footscray CBD. Little Saigon is a bomb site, along with Forges, which has long gone to Ashley Street and finally closed for good last year. Paint Spot gone. The Western end of Barkly Street has 14 empty shops, including the old Ted?s and Jimmy Wong?s.

What?s odd though is, for all the talk of gentrification there is little sign of it in Footscray. Seddon, Yarraville and WeFo are a very different story.

The weakening economy is hitting hard around here. Reaching Out in the Inner West is doing great work supplying food to over 300 people on Monday evenings. For the first time I am seeing people sleeping in doorways.]

https://thewestsider.com.au/will-downtown-footscray-ever-really-change/

[ledge]

I’m fine with it , we needed to broaden out from just Footscray but we stayed in Footscray, we trade as Footscray, we have FFC on the back of our jumpers and our VFL side is Footscray.
Our roots are very much promoted and respected.
Not sure any club has come close to ours in that regard.
Most big clubs have kept the name but don’t even train at their own ground anymore, lost the history of the ground.
Collingwood . Bombers, Melbourne even the Hawks.
To be honest I think that’s been part of the downfall at the bombers , kicked out of Windy Hill and forced to train at some half arse ground in Tullamarine.
Past Essendon players have mentioned the Hanger has no history no vibe about it.
I’m extremely happy the tasteful way we changed, we had to rebrand.

[dukedog]

I think from a marketing point of view they have it right. I just say 'the doggies' though.

FWIW i like the 'Scray. 'Scray Dogs. hahahaha

[Eastdog]

Would vote Footscray as well but honestly not fussed either way as I have been used to the Western Bulldogs. We are still the same club based in Footscray at the Whitten Oval with the over 100 year history and are red white and blue.

Was really good singing the old Footscray song tonight. I did a good job with the words :D

I think we respect the heritage a lot with the F.F.C signature on the jumper.

[jeemak]

I'm tied to the colours/ the jumper. The red, white and blue as long as it's close to home is all I need.

My grandfather played for the club, both sides of my family are red, white and blue and none of them had a home in Footscray over time. Footscray or Western Bulldogs is OK with me.

There's a reason why you pin your colours to a mast. And not a name.

[Eastdog]

I'm tied to the colours/ the jumper. The red, white and blue as long as it's close to home is all I need.

Still based in Footscray and never really moved away from there as our training base which a few others clubs have.

[Scraggers]

Up the Scraggers!

What did I do to you? :cool:

[Scraggers]

As a young whipper snapper, I fell in love with Footscray. I would travel for hours on trams, trains and buses to watch us play at Western Oval. I cannot thank the “powers-that-be” enough for the 1997 intervention. Without it, we never would have witnessed 2016. But in saying all that, I wish we were still called Footscray. It was so good hearing the Cheer Squad singing that after every goal. Brought back great memories

[Uninformed]

1466

Nice!

[angelopetraglia]

I'm in the Western Bulldogs camp.

But it felt so good last night chanting Footscray!!!!