Willy Game

[Go_Dogs]

How did we go? Anyone get down and take a look?

[hujsh]

17.21-123 Williamstown
def.
15.16-106 North Ballarat
Williamstown
Goal Kickers: W. Skipper 3, D. Galea 3, G. O''Keefe 3, C. Ward 3, J. Grant 2, P. Street, D. Stretton, L. Picken
Best Players: G. O''Keefe, F. Ray, W. Skipper, D. Stretton, S. Tiller, J. Cloke
North Ballarat
Goal Kickers: M. Greig 2, J. Spolding 2, M. Sewell 2, O. Stephenson 2, C. Garlett 2, J. Smith 2, D. McConnell, R. McHugh, M. Wundke
Best Players: T. Roach, A. Swallow, B. Goodes, G. Urquhart, J. Smith, M. Sharkey


The radio had Street as the BOG. O'Keefe and Ray had plenty of ball

[The Coon Dog]

17.21-123 Williamstown

def.
15.16-106 North Ballarat

Williamstown
Goal Kickers: W. Skipper 3, D. Galea 3, G. O''Keefe 3, C. Ward 3, J. Grant 2, P. Street, D. Stretton, L. Picken
Best Players: G. O''Keefe, F. Ray, W. Skipper, D. Stretton, S. Tiller, J. Cloke
North Ballarat
Goal Kickers: M. Greig 2, J. Spolding 2, M. Sewell 2, O. Stephenson 2, C. Garlett 2, J. Smith 2, D. McConnell, R. McHugh, M. Wundke
Best Players: T. Roach, A. Swallow, B. Goodes, G. Urquhart, J. Smith, M. Sharkey

VFL Website (http://www.sportingpulse.com/round_info.cgi?a=MATCH&fixture=27375720&c=1-118-0-67835-0&pool=-1)

[LostDoggy]

17.21-123 Williamstown

def.
15.16-106 North Ballarat

Williamstown
Goal Kickers: W. Skipper 3, D. Galea 3, G. O''Keefe 3, C. Ward 3, J. Grant 2, P. Street, D. Stretton, L. Picken
Best Players: G. O''Keefe, F. Ray, W. Skipper, D. Stretton, S. Tiller, J. Cloke
North Ballarat
Goal Kickers: M. Greig 2, J. Spolding 2, M. Sewell 2, O. Stephenson 2, C. Garlett 2, J. Smith 2, D. McConnell, R. McHugh, M. Wundke
Best Players: T. Roach, A. Swallow, B. Goodes, G. Urquhart, J. Smith, M. Sharkey

VFL Website (http://www.sportingpulse.com/round_info.cgi?a=MATCH&fixture=27375720&c=1-118-0-67835-0&pool=-1)

That just shows how these reports can be incorrect. Peter Street wasn't in the best players however the commentators on Double SS voted him as BOG by a long way.

They also said McDougall played well.

[hujsh]

Some stats i found on BF

O'Keefe had 28 disposals and his 3 goals were in the first half.

Ward had 16 disposals

Ray played HB and O'Keefe did too in the second half setting up attacks.


Skinny and Tommy were quiet. More than happy for them to get form before coming into the side.

[GVGjr]

I went along and will write up a report later. O'Shea got injured in the reserves game. Looked like a rib or a lung injury and he needed the ambulance.

[GVGjr]

The reserves had a tight win and much like the firsts it was pretty much even until the end.

Shaw and Reid never played and I was told that Reid was a late withdrawal which left the team with just 3 on the interchange and some players were feeling the pinch.

Mulligan was in the ruck and while he ran around a lot his inability to hold his marks really hurts his game. I know the club is keen to play him as a key defender but he is currently needed in the ruck.

Boumann started as a forward and just kept making poor decisions and really wasn't a factor in the game early. He moved to defense in the 2nd half and was a lot better.

O'Shea played mainly as the centre half forward and was very poor in the first half. He had a set shot from 35 and landed it well short and his inability or poor concentration of kicking through the ball really hurts his game. He improved in the 2nd half but then copped that bad injury in a marking contest lat in the game.

Wood played on the wing and did some nice things. He kicked a couple of goals but still has a lot of learning to do. I can see why the club (and others) were keen on him but he is, as they say, a project player.

Lynch had a very good game and was busy and skillful and he kicked 3 goals. Another week in the magoos and he should be ready for a promotion.

For the firsts. There was no sign of Harbrow by the way and the Seagulls really struggled with the Roosters today before getting that break on them and winning the game.

Skipper mainly played as the full forward and whilst he was mobile and a good target he wasted his chances and should have done better.

Ward started as a midfielder and spent some time forward. Once again he put in a little purple patch and kicked a couple of goals in no time. He was very classy today without being a star.

Stack played as a defender and was OK without being much better than that. He just wasn't in the play enough.

McDougall was the key defender and did a good job. He handballed to some of his team mates that were flat footed but he really did try hard and I thought it was a good game by him. Needs to kick it a bit more.

Grant was very quiet today and started as the forward pocket. He kicked a goal but was much like Stack in that he didn't do a lot wrong but he didn't have an influence on the game.

O'Keefe had a good game today. He started as a HFF before moving into the midfield. He got a lot of the ball but at times I didn't think his kicking was as good as previous weeks. He kicked 3 goals and was very busy and must be pressing for a senior game.

Tiller was used in defence today and whilst he might not have had huge possessions I really liked his game. He used the ball well and generally made the right decisions. I had some doubts about him at the start of the season but I can see him making good progress and he really has been used in a variety of positions so far this season.

Street rucked for nearly all of the game and while the commentators talked him up it wasn't a great game by him. He did all right around the ground but his tap work didn't give the struggling midfield clean possession too often. He will be handy if something happens to Minson or Hudson but he might spend significant time with the Seagulls this year.

Williams started on the bench and went on and off in defence for the majority of the game. His trademark tackling skill was still there but he was well short of a gallop and will be better for the outing.

Everitt with his leg still heavily strapped would be happy to get through the game. His trademark run and carry wasn't as evident and he clearly needs 3 more weeks playing footy before he will press for a senior berth. He played as a defender.

Ray was very good off half back. He needs another week at the Seagulls because he clearly isn't fit enough but he had the same run to his game. I didn't notice him marking the ball as well as he was last season.

[Sockeye Salmon]

You missed O'Keefe.

Please tell me someone played well.

[GVGjr]

You missed O'Keefe.

Please tell me someone played well.

Check again....actually I was in the process of editing it before you pointed it out.

:o

[mighty_west]

Excellent report there GVGjr, the O'Shea injury sounds very nasty indeed, needing an ambo to take him away.

:(

[GVGjr]

Excellent report there GVGjr, the O'Shea injury sounds very nasty indeed, needing an ambo to take him away.

:(

He throws himself around that much this one didn't look serious at first. He went up high for a mark and I think he hurt his ribs or lung. When he didn't get up straight away you just knew it was far more than him being winded. They had to stretcher him off and then a few minutes later the ambo was there.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Tiller was used in defence today and whilst he might not have had huge possessions I really liked his game. He used the ball well and generally made the right decisions. I had some doubts about him at the start of the season but I can see him making good progress and he really has been used in a variety of positions so far this season.



I think Tiller has improved the most of any player on the list over the last 6 months, perhaps with the exception of Josh Hill. If he can improve the same amount over the next 6 months then I will be ecstatic. Seems to me he has been a very consistent performer so far in 08.

What does he need to do to make the next step? Does anybody have a crystal ball as to what position he might play?

[hujsh]

I'm surprised that Tiller has done well back. I saw him as a key forward but not one who is too strong in the air. (not that i had too much to go on)

Would anyone say his marking in contests has improved? Or do i have no idea what I'm talking about?

[LostDoggy]

Excellent report there GVGjr, the O'Shea injury sounds very nasty indeed, needing an ambo to take him away.

:(

Its actually quite scary watching Paulie play, he just doesnt care sometimes, just throws his body in, myself and a friend were talking about this last year, he did something really brave, but really stupid, i think he may have got knocked out or something.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I'm surprised that Tiller has done well back. I saw him as a key forward but not one who is too strong in the air. (not that i had too much to go on)

Would anyone say his marking in contests has improved? Or do i have no idea what I'm talking about?

Tiller has improved quite a lot. His body has filled out a bit and he seems more co-ordinated. He's a flanker, though, not a KPP.

[GVGjr]

I'm surprised that Tiller has done well back. I saw him as a key forward but not one who is too strong in the air. (not that i had too much to go on)

Would anyone say his marking in contests has improved? Or do i have no idea what I'm talking about?

Tiller has improved in a few areas mainly skill, decision making and fitness but his marking remains something that needs a fair bit or work.

[bornadog]

The more I see and read about OKeefe he is really impressing. I thought Ward would get a game before he did , but now I am thinking he will get a call up first.

[Go_Dogs]

As always thanks for your detailed report GVGjr.

As Tiller is pretty mobile and his skills/decision making appear to have been big improvements this year, would he be a shot to take a running half back role?

[Sockeye Salmon]

As always thanks for your detailed report GVGjr.

As Tiller is pretty mobile and his skills/decision making appear to have been big improvements this year, would he be a shot to take a running half back role?

I think that's his best chance to make it.

[GVGjr]

As always thanks for your detailed report GVGjr.

As Tiller is pretty mobile and his skills/decision making appear to have been big improvements this year, would he be a shot to take a running half back role?


I think that's his best chance to make it.


I tend to agree that a running defenders role might be OK for him but he should also be looking at the way Scott Welsh plays in the forward line with a view of becoming a mobile 3rd tall forward.

I'm not 100% convinced that he will make the grade but he is improving.

[Go_Dogs]

I tend to agree that a running defenders role might be OK for him but he should also be looking at the way Scott Welsh plays in the forward line with a view of becoming a mobile 3rd tall forward.

I'm not 100% convinced that he will make the grade but he is improving.

Interesting idea re: Welsh. Tiller does seem to have some similar assets, however not sure if he yet has the hands above head that Welsh has. He's certainly quick on the lead as he showed in his few games last year, and pretty good below his knees. I'm guessing from the fact he's played quite a bit of defence over the past year or so he's got pretty good, or at least improved defensive efforts when up forward too.

It's going to be interesting to watch how he develops physically over the next few years. He could end up being a pretty massive bloke still - so may indeed end up a KP eventually, just from my opinion of his body. At the moment it seems his most likely shot would be as a backline runner as it is our barest cupboard, but if we get a few injuries or severe losses of form up forward he could also be useful in that role. At worst he should develop into a player who gives us a bit of versatile depth. Let's hope he keeps improving.

[Desipura]

Interesting idea re: Welsh. Tiller does seem to have some similar assets, however not sure if he yet has the hands above head that Welsh has. He's certainly quick on the lead as he showed in his few games last year, and pretty good below his knees. I'm guessing from the fact he's played quite a bit of defence over the past year or so he's got pretty good, or at least improved defensive efforts when up forward too.

It's going to be interesting to watch how he develops physically over the next few years. He could end up being a pretty massive bloke still - so may indeed end up a KP eventually, just from my opinion of his body. At the moment it seems his most likely shot would be as a backline runner as it is our barest cupboard, but if we get a few injuries or severe losses of form up forward he could also be useful in that role. At worst he should develop into a player who gives us a bit of versatile depth. Let's hope he keeps improving.

Also interesting is that Tiller is listed at 191cm which is 4cm taller than Welsh 187cm.

[mighty_west]

Also interesting is that Tiller is listed at 191cm which is 4cm taller than Welsh 187cm.

That height difference really cancels itself out, considering Tiller when forward is a leading type, rather than a jumping or pack contested mark of the ball, where's Welsh can take pack marks.

Therefor Welsh can play taller than his height suggests, Tiller can't, from what i have seen of him anyway.

[dog town]

Loved what I saw of O'Keefe in the little snippets that were around on draft day. Seems very clever and a good decision maker. Will watch his progress with great interest.

[bold-dogg]

On Tiller: I looked him up quite some time ago on a Werribee site that had archived stats.
Was surprised to see he'd managed about 7 a games a year for 2 or 3 seasons. Each season was interrupted by 4 match layoffs due to different injuries. Was there a knee injury too? I think last year was the first consistent run of games he got. Point is, I think he needs game time. And gee, his consistent multiple goal hauls as a forward in the two's was alright.

[Desipura]

That height difference really cancels itself out, considering Tiller when forward is a leading type, rather than a jumping or pack contested mark of the ball, where's Welsh can take pack marks.

Therefor Welsh can play taller than his height suggests, Tiller can't, from what i have seen of him anyway.
Welsh is not really noted for his pack marks, he too is a leading type.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Welsh is not really noted for his pack marks, he too is a leading type.

I think its really Tillers hands that are the deciding factor on whether he can play like Welsh. Welsh has super hands. Can Tiller develop that in his game?

[knowitall]

Loved what I saw of O'Keefe in the little snippets that were around on draft day. Seems very clever and a good decision maker. Will watch his progress with great interest.

Since draft day, this kid has been terrific. Going at pick 63, he did not really expect much from the Western Bulldogs. All he expected was maybe a consistent season down at Williamstown reserves, or seniors if he is lucky. He has played the first four games for Williamstown seniors (after playing two NAB Cup practise matches against Melbourne with young Callan Ward and James Mulligan, and Carlton) in terrific style (averaging 24.5 possessions a game) and is kicking goals as a midfielder. On the weekend he displayed that he could attack with the ball starting from defense, almost playing as a half back flanker, because of his hard work as an on baller to push back into defense.

This kid is a fantastic kick, has a great footy nouse and has some real raw talent that everyone should keep interest in. IMO he may be a great pick up by Scotty Clayton and the Bulldogs and may have a very successful year.

Good on the kid, and i know i will be watching his form very closely and hope that soon he has the chance to represent the Western Bulldogs.

[knowitall]

I think its really Tillers hands that are the deciding factor on whether he can play like Welsh. Welsh has super hands. Can Tiller develop that in his game?

Tiller is fantastic mark when he attacks the ball and the contest. IMO at the moment he is worrying too much about what his opponent is doing, where he is going to go and how good he is in a contest.

If Tiller attacks the ball at every contest, this will be a huge step in his chase to catch the caliber of Scott Welsh.

[LostDoggy]

Since draft day, this kid has been terrific. Going at pick 63, he did not really expect much from the Western Bulldogs. All he expected was maybe a consistent season down at Williamstown reserves, or seniors if he is lucky. He has played the first four games for Williamstown seniors (after playing two NAB Cup practise matches against Melbourne with young Callan Ward and James Mulligan, and Carlton) in terrific style (averaging 24.5 possessions a game) and is kicking goals as a midfielder. On the weekend he displayed that he could attack with the ball starting from defense, almost playing as a half back flanker, because of his hard work as an on baller to push back into defense.

This kid is a fantastic kick, has a great footy nouse and has some real raw talent that everyone should keep interest in. IMO he may be a great pick up by Scotty Clayton and the Bulldogs and may have a very successful year.

Good on the kid, and i know i will be watching his form very closely and hope that soon he has the chance to represent the Western Bulldogs.


Welcome knowitall. Great to hear the comprehensive assessment of O'Keefe and you obviously have a good handle on things. Any news on how Paul O'Shea is?
How close do you think O'Keefe is to getting a senior game? I remember years ago Mitch Hahn being selected for his first game up in Sydney (I think)

[LostDoggy]

I tend to agree that a running defenders role might be OK for him but he should also be looking at the way Scott Welsh plays in the forward line with a view of becoming a mobile 3rd tall forward.

I'm not 100% convinced that he will make the grade but he is improving.


Tiller is fantastic mark when he attacks the ball and the contest. IMO at the moment he is worrying too much about what his opponent is doing, where he is going to go and how good he is in a contest.

If Tiller attacks the ball at every contest, this will be a huge step in his chase to catch the caliber of Scott Welsh.


It seems like a couple of you rate Tiller highly as a possible long term replacement for Welsh.

[ledge]

OK so im a bit one eyed toward Tiller as he lived with my mum in law, but games i have seen him i like him as a forward , strong hands and leads well, i just think he shouldnt be playing in the backline at all as it is taking his strengths away and making him worry about his opponent.
He also is an accurate kick for goal.

[bornadog]

Since draft day, this kid has been terrific. Going at pick 63, he did not really expect much from the Western Bulldogs. All he expected was maybe a consistent season down at Williamstown reserves, or seniors if he is lucky. He has played the first four games for Williamstown seniors (after playing two NAB Cup practise matches against Melbourne with young Callan Ward and James Mulligan, and Carlton) in terrific style (averaging 24.5 possessions a game) and is kicking goals as a midfielder. On the weekend he displayed that he could attack with the ball starting from defense, almost playing as a half back flanker, because of his hard work as an on baller to push back into defense.

This kid is a fantastic kick, has a great footy nouse and has some real raw talent that everyone should keep interest in. IMO he may be a great pick up by Scotty Clayton and the Bulldogs and may have a very successful year.

Good on the kid, and i know i will be watching his form very closely and hope that soon he has the chance to represent the Western Bulldogs.

As I have mentioned previously, I am very impressed so far. Lets hope the kid goes on with it.

[LostDoggy]

Tiller was used in defence today and whilst he might not have had huge possessions I really liked his game today. He used the ball well and generally made the right decisions. I had some doubts about him at the start of the season but I can see him making good progress and he really has been used in a variety of positions so far this season.


Sounds like they got him into the side after a couple of solid performances. He has looked comfortable today and certainly not out of place.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Sounds like they got him into the side after a couple of solid performances. He has looked comfortable today and certainly not out of place.

Yep, I was very happy with his contribution today. 2 goals, and some excellent defensive pressure work, one of which led to a goal in the last quarter.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Tiller is fantastic mark when he attacks the ball and the contest. IMO at the moment he is worrying too much about what his opponent is doing, where he is going to go and how good he is in a contest.

If Tiller attacks the ball at every contest, this will be a huge step in his chase to catch the caliber of Scott Welsh.

Steve did a great job today in his first game of the year. He didn't get too many chances in the air, but attacked the ball, worked hard without it and kicked two excellent set shots for two goals.

[LostDoggy]

OK so im a bit one eyed toward Tiller as he lived with my mum in law, but games i have seen him i like him as a forward , strong hands and leads well, i just think he shouldnt be playing in the backline at all as it is taking his strengths away and making him worry about his opponent.
He also is an accurate kick for goal.

I disagree at this stage of his learning.

Tiller at 191cm is a little short to be a strong kpp (I know he's taller than Welsh and Johnno - but he isn't a hulk that can hold down CHF).

His fast leading, strong marking, and accurate kicking, will always provide him with chance to play FF or FP.

However, with the consistancy of our current forward line (not just in kicking goals ie. Welsh leading fast and taking a key defensive player away from the goal square), he could spend a lot of time on the bench.

By playing Tiller in defence, Eade is offering him the opportunity for greater game time, rotating between forward and defence, whilst teaching him the defensive skills and accountability, which can only be a benefit when playing forward.

With both Tiller and Hargrave in the 22, we can still offer a tallish HBF if Eade was to try Hargrave forward - something that a number of posters have suggested in the past.

Looking forward to bigger and better performances from the Tillerman.

[bulldogtragic]

Love Stevey Tiller. Looks like an AFL footballer. Well done.

[ledge]

Well Tiller did real well today, starting to make in roads into senior selection more often i think.

[Go_Dogs]

Agreed - was very happy with what he did yesterday. He's going to continue getting bigger and stronger too, he looks like a AFL player now. Hopefully he can get a few more games under his belt this season.

[knowitall]

Welcome knowitall. Great to hear the comprehensive assessment of O'Keefe and you obviously have a good handle on things. Any news on how Paul O'Shea is?
How close do you think O'Keefe is to getting a senior game? I remember years ago Mitch Hahn being selected for his first game up in Sydney (I think)

Sorry it's taken me a while to reply.
Paul O Shea' is fine. He was concussed on the weekend pretty badly and news is that he did not train all last week. It is good for him to have the week off and he will be fine to play this weekend at Williamstown reserves.

O' Keefe has edged himself alot closer in getting a game in the last two weeks. He was never a chance to play in Sydney, and the way Bulldogs are playing at the moment, it will be hard to break into the side especially when guys like Everitt, Williams, Ray, Harbrow, McDougall are all coming back from injury.

[GVGjr]

O' Keefe has edged himself alot closer in getting a game in the last two weeks. He was never a chance to play in Sydney, and the way Bulldogs are playing at the moment, it will be hard to break into the side especially when guys like Everitt, Williams, Ray, Harbrow, McDougall are all coming back from injury.

Interesting that you added McDougall to the list of potential inclusions because I get the feeling that some people still have significant doubts over his ability. I think he is likely to be needed as we edge closer to games against the Hawks and Cats so I hope he gets a couple of more solid outings for the Seagulls.

[ledge]

I imagined Doogs being our main foward when he came over but seeing Eade push Minson into that position, i can only see Doogs being delisted at the end of the year, playing him up back against opposition tall forwards i just dont see it happening, he has strong hands and good build but just hasnt come on. Williams will probably take that role in the future.

[LostDoggy]

I agree Ledge, Skipper and Mcdougall will both be delisted.

[knowitall]

Interesting that you added McDougall to the list of potential inclusions because I get the feeling that some people still have significant doubts over his ability. I think he is likely to be needed as we edge closer to games against the Hawks and Cats so I hope he gets a couple of more solid outings for the Seagulls.

McDougall has all the potential in the World. He needs to learn how to take people on more consistently, because when he does that's when he plays good football. He is still developing as a football, maybe not physically, but definitely mentally.
I think Bulldogs should give him another few weeks playing down at Williamstown until he finds his feet there and is ready to step up again. IMO he has what it takes, but just needs to develop and work out how he plays his best football.

[bornadog]

McDougall has all the potential in the World. He needs to learn how to take people on more consistently, because when he does that's when he plays good football. He is still developing as a football, maybe not physically, but definitely mentally.
I think Bulldogs should give him another few weeks playing down at Williamstown until he finds his feet there and is ready to step up again. IMO he has what it takes, but just needs to develop and work out how he plays his best football.

I agree, he has shown potential in the past and the big guys seem to mature as footballers later than the mids. Doogs is only 25 years old and just needs to focus more on the job. The bulldogs cannot afford to let big guys go especially since we have had very few KPP over the years. If he can stay injury free and play well in the next few weeks, he may get a go against the Hawks as we need a genuine third tall in the backline.

[Dry Rot]

McDougall has all the potential in the World. He needs to learn how to take people on more consistently, because when he does that's when he plays good football. He is still developing as a football, maybe not physically, but definitely mentally.
I think Bulldogs should give him another few weeks playing down at Williamstown until he finds his feet there and is ready to step up again. IMO he has what it takes, but just needs to develop and work out how he plays his best football.

What do you think is his natural position - forward or back?

[knowitall]

What do you think is his natural position - forward or back?

His natural position is a CHB but playing at West Coast he showed great signs that he can play as a forward line KPP. Naturally, he will do the job at centre half back, as in shutting down KPP's such as Sautner yesterday in the VFL, but needs to develop his run from half back into his game. People who think McDougall will be delisted at the end of the year may be on the right track, but Andrew has all the potential in the world, as i said earlier, and once he plays a few consistent games for Willi, he will start playing the football we all want him to play.

[Sockeye Salmon]

His natural position is a CHB but playing at West Coast he showed great signs that he can play as a forward line KPP. Naturally, he will do the job at centre half back, as in shutting down KPP's such as Sautner yesterday in the VFL, but needs to develop his run from half back into his game. People who think McDougall will be delisted at the end of the year may be on the right track, but Andrew has all the potential in the world, as i said earlier, and once he plays a few consistent games for Willi, he will start playing the football we all want him to play.

Meyer played on Sautner; Mcdougall played on Ben Holland