It's just a sense of relief.

[mjp]

Whatever that was back on Friday night - and I'm still not sure 'WHAT' happened - but my overwhelming feeling is of relief. We played some pretty good footy this year but for some reason no matter how well we were going, a 'FALL' (like on Friday) always just 'felt' imminent.

I am left with a few regrets from the weekend. I have noted the criticism of individuals (Jamarra, Tim etc) and I guess I agree with most of it...remember though, players don't always play well and how it 'looks' rarely reflects the effort they are putting in. Jamarra can be terribly laconic - I'm sure he IS trying...anyway, I guess where I'm going is there is just no point coming at individuals as we ultimately live and die as a group.

Legislating on Liber, Duryea etc after that game??? If you don't call it out before the game then you can't after the game...it's one game.

All that said, I am pretty unhappy with a few things:

1/. Sicily.

Allowing him to run around and do whatever he wanted...it's maddening. He is better at his job (intercepting the footy and starting possession chains) than any player on our list is at their job. He is an EXPERT at taking intercept marks. How we continue to let these type of players (Stewart, May, Taylor) dominate against us I will never know. Stop trying to lead up on him...he DOES NOT CARE. Stick an elbow in his back and bring the ball to ground.

2/. Naughton in the ruck.

We have 2x excellent ruckman (Lobb and English) and a 3rd in waiting (Darcy). If it was all about forward balance...well, we knew that before the game...It just seemed ridiculous that he was in there...why go with this in the most important game of the year???

3/. Bont forward in q3.

Yep - he was getting beat. But don't take him out of the game. Bont moving out of the midfield was a win for Hawthorn...why give it to them? Fight it out - or go to half-back or a wing and get involved that way...going forward of the game where we already had 3x talls AND were battling for entries...what was the plan? Bont forward is a great lever to pull - but you can only pull that lever if we are getting the ball.

[bulldogtragic]

Do we yet know who was theoretically on Sicily? I’m still if anyone was on him.

[mjp]

Do we yet know who was theoretically on Sicily? I’m still if anyone was on him.

Well - he started behind the footy and it was 6 on 6.

There continues to be a narrative that when you are on a dangerous interceptor the key is to lead up on them and 'play THROUGH' their direct opponent. THIS NEVER WORKS. NEVER.

I doubt Sicily knows who he was on either...his answer would be:

"I get to wherever I am needed".

"We work as a defensive unit and we all have a role to play to be successful" etc.

He does whatever he wants and the oppo have to stop him. We didn't even try.

[bulldogtragic]

Well - he started behind the footy and it was 6 on 6.

There continues to be a narrative that when you are on a dangerous interceptor the key is to lead up on them and 'play THROUGH' their direct opponent. THIS NEVER WORKS. NEVER.

I doubt Sicily knows who he was on either...his answer would be:

"I get to wherever I am needed".

"We work as a defensive unit and we all have a role to play to be successful" etc.

He does whatever he wants and the oppo have to stop him. We didn't even try.

If it never works, and watching our games, that’s hard to dispute. Then what is Bevo hoping for? From memory he used West on Stewart to better affect in Geelong. But other than that, I’d love to know why he’s got theories he won’t really ever back down from. Watching Sicily predictably rip us to shreds (while Scimshaw killed Marra) was helpless.

[mjp]

If it never works, and watching our games, that’s hard to dispute. Then what is Bevo hoping for? From memory he used West on Stewart to better affect in Geelong. But other than that, I’d love to know why he’s got theories he won’t really ever back down from. Watching Sicily predictably rip us to shreds (while Scimshaw killed Marra) was helpless.

West has really developed in this role. I was convinced he would be in the side for this reason right up until he didn't run out.

Then I was immediately worried.

[bornadog]

West has really developed in this role. I was convinced he would be in the side for this reason right up until he didn't run out.

Then I was immediately worried.

West should have played instead of Gallagher

[mjp]

West should have played instead of Gallagher

Yeah - I get that but that's still relying on an individual to fulfill a task...players do get injured which is why you need to have a system in place for these things that multiple players 'understand'.

Sadly there is no system for 'be a gun clearance winner' or 'be a great interceptor' (or any other number of things) so some players are truly irreplaceable...the role on an interceptor should not be one of those you wouldn't think.

[bulldogtragic]

West has really developed in this role. I was convinced he would be in the side for this reason right up until he didn't run out.

Then I was immediately worried.

Not to side track your thread. I hate how West has so few credits in the bank even in a breakout season. While say Gags, for some reason has plenty even though it was fairly obvious what would happen with him Friday night. I still don’t understand what the MC logic was.

[Ozza]

Whatever that was back on Friday night - and I'm still not sure 'WHAT' happened - but my overwhelming feeling is of relief. We played some pretty good footy this year but for some reason no matter how well we were going, a 'FALL' (like on Friday) always just 'felt' imminent.

I am left with a few regrets from the weekend. I have noted the criticism of individuals (Jamarra, Tim etc) and I guess I agree with most of it...remember though, players don't always play well and how it 'looks' rarely reflects the effort they are putting in. Jamarra can be terribly laconic - I'm sure he IS trying...anyway, I guess where I'm going is there is just no point coming at individuals as we ultimately live and die as a group.

Legislating on Liber, Duryea etc after that game??? If you don't call it out before the game then you can't after the game...it's one game.

All that said, I am pretty unhappy with a few things:

1/. Sicily.

Allowing him to run around and do whatever he wanted...it's maddening. He is better at his job (intercepting the footy and starting possession chains) than any player on our list is at their job. He is an EXPERT at taking intercept marks. How we continue to let these type of players (Stewart, May, Taylor) dominate against us I will never know. Stop trying to lead up on him...he DOES NOT CARE. Stick an elbow in his back and bring the ball to ground.

2/. Naughton in the ruck.

We have 2x excellent ruckman (Lobb and English) and a 3rd in waiting (Darcy). If it was all about forward balance...well, we knew that before the game...It just seemed ridiculous that he was in there...why go with this in the most important game of the year???

3/. Bont forward in q3.

Yep - he was getting beat. But don't take him out of the game. Bont moving out of the midfield was a win for Hawthorn...why give it to them? Fight it out - or go to half-back or a wing and get involved that way...going forward of the game where we already had 3x talls AND were battling for entries...what was the plan? Bont forward is a great lever to pull - but you can only pull that lever if we are getting the ball.

Bont was forward a lot in the second quarter as well. And we made the rod for our own backs here. We didn't have our 3 talls on the ground at the same time at any stage that I can recall, and then when we were uncompetitive ahead of the ball, we go and put our best player there (when he wasn't on the bench for significant periods. It was a horror show. It was staggering that we moved so far away from what has been successful, during a final. And that includes not having West in the side to occupy Sicily. Or perhaps if we had the three talls out there - Sicily has to play on one of them!

[bulldogtragic]

Bont was forward a lot in the second quarter as well. And we made the rod for our own backs here. We didn't have our 3 talls on the ground at the same time at any stage that I can recall, and then when we were uncompetitive ahead of the ball, we go and put our best player there (when he wasn't on the bench for significant periods. It was a horror show. It was staggering that we moved so far away from what has been successful, during a final. And that includes not having West in the side to occupy Sicily. Or perhaps if we had the three talls out there - Sicily has to play on one of them!

Make it make sense!

[Ozza]

Not to side track your thread. I hate how West has so few credits in the bank even in a breakout season. While say Gags, for some reason has plenty even though it was fairly obvious what would happen with him Friday night. I still don’t understand what the MC logic was.

Great point. Gallagher just gets played, regardless.

We've got a coach who fills many many roles with athletic attributes. I would say he gets the balance wrong with this year in year out.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Whatever that was back on Friday night - and I'm still not sure 'WHAT' happened - but my overwhelming feeling is of relief. We played some pretty good footy this year but for some reason no matter how well we were going, a 'FALL' (like on Friday) always just 'felt' imminent.

I am left with a few regrets from the weekend. I have noted the criticism of individuals (Jamarra, Tim etc) and I guess I agree with most of it...remember though, players don't always play well and how it 'looks' rarely reflects the effort they are putting in. Jamarra can be terribly laconic - I'm sure he IS trying...anyway, I guess where I'm going is there is just no point coming at individuals as we ultimately live and die as a group.

Legislating on Liber, Duryea etc after that game??? If you don't call it out before the game then you can't after the game...it's one game.

All that said, I am pretty unhappy with a few things:

1/. Sicily.

Allowing him to run around and do whatever he wanted...it's maddening. He is better at his job (intercepting the footy and starting possession chains) than any player on our list is at their job. He is an EXPERT at taking intercept marks. How we continue to let these type of players (Stewart, May, Taylor) dominate against us I will never know. Stop trying to lead up on him...he DOES NOT CARE. Stick an elbow in his back and bring the ball to ground.

2/. Naughton in the ruck.

We have 2x excellent ruckman (Lobb and English) and a 3rd in waiting (Darcy). If it was all about forward balance...well, we knew that before the game...It just seemed ridiculous that he was in there...why go with this in the most important game of the year???

3/. Bont forward in q3.

Yep - he was getting beat. But don't take him out of the game. Bont moving out of the midfield was a win for Hawthorn...why give it to them? Fight it out - or go to half-back or a wing and get involved that way...going forward of the game where we already had 3x talls AND were battling for entries...what was the plan? Bont forward is a great lever to pull - but you can only pull that lever if we are getting the ball.

Great points.

It's like Friday night we reverted back to all the shenanigans of 2023 and 2022. It was truly mindboggling.

The roller-coaster ride just continues on its merry way. Trust issues will be back for another instalment in 2025. Urgh.

[Ozza]

It is hard for me to fathom that we have only won a final in 2 of the 10 season Beveridge has coached us for.

Happy to give a pass for 2015 coming from nowhere and losing a close final. And you certainly get many extra credits for 2x Grand finals. But the 'failure' years are stacking up a bit - even with him being our most successful coach (which has an admittedly low historical benchmark).

I would say that this year is a failure with the talent we have. And would say that 2023, 2022, 2020, 2019, 2018 & 2017 are failures also.

He has one year on his contract. I would be very against an extension.
My hope is that he is coaching for his life in 2025 - and that yields a positive outcome with multiple finals wins as the pass mark.

[azabob]

Does anyone have some theories on why Ugle-Hagan started the game on the bench?

It was bloody puzzling on the night, and I am still none the clearer on it.

[mjp]

Does anyone have some theories on why Ugle-Hagan started the game on the bench?

It was bloody puzzling on the night, and I am still none the clearer on it.

Having watched the game, the puzzle isn't that he started on the bench...it was that he went on the ground at all. Boom-Tish.

I'm here all week.

[bornadog]

Does anyone have some theories on why Ugle-Hagan started the game on the bench?

It was bloody puzzling on the night, and I am still none the clearer on it.

Does it make a difference to the result - no

[Ozza]

It set the tone that we wouldn't play the 3 talls at the same time.

[kickit2Koly]

West should have played instead of Gallagher

Agreed, He seemed the perfect match up for Sicily having done similar rolls before.

Although not sure he would of made a heap of difference, we got completely outworked.

[bulldogtragic]

Does it make a difference to the result - no

Not to put words in Aza’s mouth. I think he’s simply asking why our leading goal kicker started on the bench.

Like why start rucking Darcy earlier in the year and have Tim elsewhere to start the match.

They are fair enough questions and I’d love to know the answer if Bevo was offering the answer.

[MrMahatma]

I've largely avoided reading the diagnosis. I went on a wild tear Friday night and didn't stop drinking until 2am and it's taken me a few days to get my equilibrium right. Don't get me wrong - I was hanging with a bunch of mates and it was probably the most fun I've had in years... just a wild shame about the footy.

Reading the comments here reminds "Yeah, we were all saying "where is Bont?" "Why is Naughton in the ruck?". I think I was happier more or less being unable to recall much of the evening. Just seems like we got beaten by things we shouldn't have been beaten at.

[bulldogtragic]

It set the tone that we wouldn't play the 3 talls at the same time.

Then the flow on question is why play them all then. Why not add West to go to Sicily or add in another runner? Bring in Khamis and maybe play him forward or back depending on how Lobb was going. Seems we played a man down effectively.

[Sedat]

I suppose Bevo had seen enough of English being strong-armed at stoppage and even worse, in his usual strength around the ground, so he pulled the Naughton lever to get a hypothetical lift in competitiveness around the ball. It didn't work but something needed to be done.

Bont forward is what everyone has been advocating so that we have less reliance on the Bont or bust narrative (ie: 2022/23 playbook), and also to help break a hard tag and take the tagger to uncomfortable places. Deploying Bont forward has worked very well all season - however it relies on our rucks/midfield maintaining a stranglehold on the game and getting territory in our favour, which didn't happen obviously.

Long bombs to snake just doesn't work in finals, and Sicily/Scrimshaw duly ate it up all night with aplomb. Did the key forwards consistently work hard enough to provide an outlet for the back 6? Didn't look like it.

Cannot disagree with West being marked harshly compared to others (arguably Garcia in this boat as well). But really the 22-24 magnets didn't decide Friday night - our 1-6 magnets simply failed to get it done, which puts you well behind the 8-ball.

Together with the 15 or so senior players who all had really poor nights, so too did Bevo and the other coaches in the box without a doubt. They couldn't stop Hawthorn's short kicking possession game (we've lose that same way all season). Our mids/coaches had no idea how to combat Hawthorn using Amon/Impey defensive side of every stoppage, virtually allowing us to win dirty clearance and inevitably gifting it straight back - 11 goals conceded from turnover the end result. The comprehensive failure on Friday night is a shared responsibility for mine.

[Jeanette54]

I hate to say this but, we played to expectations on Friday night, and I am sure all of us had that spectre of dread going into the game.

Why is it that certain teams always rise to the big occasions, whereas we regularly seem to revert to hapless ineptitude.

I have followed this club since the 1950's, and I am another feeling the relief that our season is over. It's no fun waiting for our inevitable poor performance, always when it matters most.

[Grantysghost]

Does anyone have some theories on why Ugle-Hagan started the game on the bench?

It was bloody puzzling on the night, and I am still none the clearer on it.
Maybe to throw off the Hawks matchups I've got nfi.

[SquirrelGrip]

Does anyone have some theories on why Ugle-Hagan started the game on the bench?

It was bloody puzzling on the night, and I am still none the clearer on it.

Yet with him on the bench we scored perhaps our quickest goal of the year from the opening bounce.

[1eyedog]

Whatever that was back on Friday night - and I'm still not sure 'WHAT' happened - but my overwhelming feeling is of relief. We played some pretty good footy this year but for some reason no matter how well we were going, a 'FALL' (like on Friday) always just 'felt' imminent.

I am left with a few regrets from the weekend. I have noted the criticism of individuals (Jamarra, Tim etc) and I guess I agree with most of it...remember though, players don't always play well and how it 'looks' rarely reflects the effort they are putting in. Jamarra can be terribly laconic - I'm sure he IS trying...anyway, I guess where I'm going is there is just no point coming at individuals as we ultimately live and die as a group.

Legislating on Liber, Duryea etc after that game??? If you don't call it out before the game then you can't after the game...it's one game.

All that said, I am pretty unhappy with a few things:

1/. Sicily.

Allowing him to run around and do whatever he wanted...it's maddening. He is better at his job (intercepting the footy and starting possession chains) than any player on our list is at their job. He is an EXPERT at taking intercept marks. How we continue to let these type of players (Stewart, May, Taylor) dominate against us I will never know. Stop trying to lead up on him...he DOES NOT CARE. Stick an elbow in his back and bring the ball to ground.

2/. Naughton in the ruck.

We have 2x excellent ruckman (Lobb and English) and a 3rd in waiting (Darcy). If it was all about forward balance...well, we knew that before the game...It just seemed ridiculous that he was in there...why go with this in the most important game of the year???

3/. Bont forward in q3.

Yep - he was getting beat. But don't take him out of the game. Bont moving out of the midfield was a win for Hawthorn...why give it to them? Fight it out - or go to half-back or a wing and get involved that way...going forward of the game where we already had 3x talls AND were battling for entries...what was the plan? Bont forward is a great lever to pull - but you can only pull that lever if we are getting the ball.

Agree with all of this. We were getting killed in the midfield and it was 20 points the diff and I looked at the next centre bounce after another Hawthorn goal and notice Ed Richards at half back. Fast forward five minutes, same margin and I notice Ed Richards at half forward.

[Bullies]

Yet with him on the bench we scored perhaps our quickest goal of the year from the opening bounce. Also does it matter these days where you start. A lot of good players start on the bench and get rotated on fairly quickly and then a good player comes off for a rest.

[Boots]

Yeah - I get that but that's still relying on an individual to fulfill a task...players do get injured which is why you need to have a system in place for these things that multiple players 'understand'.

Sadly there is no system for 'be a gun clearance winner' or 'be a great interceptor' (or any other number of things) so some players are truly irreplaceable...the role on an interceptor should not be one of those you wouldn't think.

In Martin Flanagan’s “A Wink from the Universe” there’s a revealing interview with Easton Wood about how he became an intercept defender. In a nutshell, Bevo tells (or at least back then he told) the players to just do what felt natural, and he coaxed out their innate talents by encouraging their enjoyment of their own skill.

This is also behind Picken’s emergence from tagger to forward, and I assume more recently the discovery of Lobb’s defensive talents and Ed Eichards’ midfield excellence.

I feel like this “momentum” coaching is visible in all of Bevo’s coaching decisions and is part of why we wind up with so many almost great players. Naughton and Marra, for eg, have some miraculous skills but they both also demonstrate that fixing your deficiencies aren’t as important to Bevo as revelling in your strengths.

I just feel like we’re constantly prey to one or two players having a dip in self-belief, and that puts us permanently on a knife edge. You can lose that in an instant but it takes more than three hours to get back, meaning we can be scintillating if we’re left to our own devices, but lose a game from any position.

If Bevo has a flaw, it’s that 5D chess doesn’t mesh well with a team full of single points of failure. He’s an artist, not an engineer, and it shows.

[Mantis]

I get the sentiment of the thread & the post, but I'm still pissed off.

We had more to give this year... and for reasons that the MC & playing group continue to ignore we find ourselves on holidays already.

We lost like we always do, and I think we've all had enough of that.

[GVGjr]

Friday night wasn't a sense of relief for me in any form. Some Bulldog friends and I had even inquired about reserving a plane for the trip to SA so I certainly wanted and expected us to go further.

I agree that the Bont move forward and the lack of effort to curb Sicily were concerning parts of a terrible night and unfortunately an all too common theme to our efforts over the years.

Hard to know why we are falling short so often when it gets to the pointy end and while I'm a believer in Bevo I just wonder if the way he shields, protects and supports the players is creating a bit of a softer underbelly to our list. They might at times need a bit of a healthy level of anxiety to balance things out and get a better outcome.

[Sedat]

I get the sentiment of the thread & the post, but I'm still pissed off.

We had more to give this year... and for reasons that the MC & playing group continue to ignore we find ourselves on holidays already.

We lost like we always do, and I think we've all had enough of that.
Yep, I'm very agitated with the unexpected (yet familiar) manner of our demise this season. This is an open season and premierships don't come around easily or often. That's why 2021 pisses me off more now than it did on the night - you need to nail your chance when it comes, which conversely is why I love 2016 so much aside from the obvious.

[kruder]

Do we yet know who was theoretically on Sicily? I?m still if anyone was on him.

He started on Caleb Daniel, obviously the plan from their prospective was to have him on of of the least dangerous forwards, I reckon he even lined up on McNeil at stages.

[Sedat]

Friday night wasn't a sense of relief for me in any form. Some Bulldog friends and I had even inquired about reserving a plane for the trip to SA so I certainly wanted and expected us to go further.

I agree that the Bont move forward and the lack of effort to curb Sicily were concerning parts of a terrible night and unfortunately an all too common theme to our efforts over the years.

Hard to know why we are falling short so often when it gets to the pointy end and while I'm a believer in Bevo I just wonder if the way he shields, protects and supports the players is creating a bit of a softer underbelly to our list. They might at times need a bit of a healthy level of anxiety to balance things out and get a better outcome.
The soft underbelly started with the 2019 EF. Quite a few of the players from then are now key senior members of the team. How you perform in big games is how the opposition judge you, and if you fail you are targeted/challenged in the future. That's why what we did in 2021 was brilliant and undersold, and winning tough in hostile environments like Brisbane and Adelaide redressed the soft underbelly tag (until 16 goals in 35 minutes showed up of course). And because of that late 2021 capitulation and our inability to properly and forensically review it straight after and make immediate changes that off-season, it opened up the soft underbelly once again so that we cough up a 40 point lead in the next final we play and then miss finals altogether in 2023 when in the box seat to qualify with 3 weeks to go.

Friday night will expose the soft underbelly even more, whether we like it or not. We have to get ruthless as a club from the top down and simply nail our chance next time we make finals.

[Happy Days]

If we had snuck in again like in 2022 and got belted, then maybe, but we didn’t. We earned our way in and were the comfortable favourites, and we looked so much steelier and resolute than the last two years. The runs of goals against had stopped, the defence was stronger, the forward line more dangerous, and the midfield quicker. Yet we lost in the exact same way as we always lose, and looked completely helpless in doing it.

It’s not a relief to be stuck in purgatory again and I don’t know how anyone could think otherwise.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

If we had snuck in again like in 2022 and got belted, then maybe, but we didn’t. We earned our way in and were the comfortable favourites, and we looked so much steelier and resolute than the last two years. The runs of goals against had stopped, the defence was stronger, the forward line more dangerous, and the midfield quicker. Yet we lost in the exact same way as we always lose, and looked completely helpless in doing it.

It’s not a relief to be stuck in purgatory again and I don’t know how anyone could think otherwise.

Spot on. We looked to have finally turned the corner. The ghosts of 2021, 2022 and 2023 finally put to bed. Yet we lost the exact same way when the heat was turned up.

I've been a big critic of this group and they even had me fooled. Again.

Another year pissed away. Bont turns 30 next year.

[Topdog]

I hate to say this but, we played to expectations on Friday night, and I am sure all of us had that spectre of dread going into the game. .

Exactly this, I went into the game dreading a raygun performance

[Ozza]

I get the sentiment of the thread & the post, but I'm still pissed off.

We had more to give this year... and for reasons that the MC & playing group continue to ignore we find ourselves on holidays already.

We lost like we always do, and I think we've all had enough of that.

Yeah I'm completely pissed off with the way that this era is being wasted.
We've had many many seasons in my life where we didn't have the talent and were far lower on the ladder, when I was more engaged as a fan because I had faith in what we were trying to do.

Premierships simply don't come much more 'winnable' than the last two seasons where there haven't been any great sides. We were stiff in 2008-2010 that Rocket's teams ran into some extraordinarily good sides such as Geelong, Collingwood, Hawthorn and a St Kilda side that was their absolute best chance of winning a second.

I don't think anyone is looking back on Collingwood last year, and whoever wins this year and seeing a great side. So, with this in mind it is incredibly frustrating to still have not finished top 4 for the 14th year straight and give ourselves a chance. Imagine the Cats win again this year! They just keep finishing top 4 and peppering away at it.

[mjp]

I get the sentiment of the thread & the post, but I'm still pissed off.


That's why it's a relief mate. I don't have to be agitated or pissed off anymore.

This team wasn't winning unless everything went right. When does everything go right??

[The Bulldogs Bite]

That's why it's a relief mate. I don't have to be agitated or pissed off anymore.

This team wasn't winning unless everything went right. When does everything go right??

It's actually a good question. For us to have a chance, 'everything' has to go right. We simply cannot WILL our way like 2016, or like Sydney did v GWS, or how Geelong do for top 4 on a yearly basis.

We point out the fixture, injuries, and every other excuse for why we haven't made top 4 every year, or why we drop every EF we've been in, and why we continually underperform. Why is it for THIS group, EVERYTHING has to go right? Why are they incapable of swimming against the tide!?

The thing that pisses us off is that we beat ourselves. We do it every time. We do it either at the selection table, in the box, on the ground or as a combination.

Like many, I had started to believe. I thought we could win the flag this year. Despite Hawthorns good form, I thought we'd make it incredibly difficult for them.

We ROLLED over. We looked absolutely helpless. We couldn't win the ball, we couldn't move the ball, we couldn't restrict them, we couldn't do anything but be a footnote in this BS Hok love affair and days after the final, it still enrages me.

24 hours after the game and Weigtman posted 'ya win some ya lose some'. Excuse me, what? You just embarrassed yourself in another final and that's how you're looking at it? You wasted ANOTHER opportunity and less than a day after it, all you can tell me is you win some and lose some? I get you're paid well and have other interests but that's a ****ing loser mentality.

Cody, much like the rest of this group, need to get serious or get out.

[GVGjr]

24 hours after the game and Weigtman posted 'ya win some ya lose some'. Excuse me, what? You just embarrassed yourself in another final and that's how you're looking at it? You wasted ANOTHER opportunity and less than a day after it, all you can tell me is you win some and lose some? I get you're paid well and have other interests but that's a ****ing loser mentality.

Cody, much like the rest of this group, need to get serious or get out.

Until recently I was of the impression that Weightman potentially needs to be moved to the back line but I've changed my mind on that (more about that later) but they are disappointing comments and highlights that the harmonious environment that Bevo has fostered might be a breeding ground for a level of complacency. I'm not seeing that at training but it's hard to not draw that conclusion given our frequently weaker efforts late in the season.

[bulldogtragic]

Whatever happened to you win some, you get hungry to keep on winning?

Such an odd thing for an elite sportsman to say.

[bulldogtragic]

Until recently I was of the impression that Weightman potentially needs to be moved to the back line but I've changed my mind on that (more about that later) but they are disappointing comments and highlights that the harmonious environment that Bevo has fostered might be a breeding ground for a level of complacency. I'm not seeing that at training but it's hard to not draw that conclusion given our frequently weaker efforts late in the season.

I mean… imagine Rocket was coach and your Monday review was Rocket saying ‘what happened Cody, you barely touched it?’.

‘Well Rocket. You win some. You lose some.’

The paint would striped off the walls.

[jeemak]

It's actually a good question. For us to have a chance, 'everything' has to go right. We simply cannot WILL our way like 2016, or like Sydney did v GWS, or how Geelong do for top 4 on a yearly basis.

We point out the fixture, injuries, and every other excuse for why we haven't made top 4 every year, or why we drop every EF we've been in, and why we continually underperform. Why is it for THIS group, EVERYTHING has to go right? Why are they incapable of swimming against the tide!?

.

What can you say about 2021 then? Not sure everything went right in the lead up to the GF, but the group found a way.

To me this particular group of players is inconsistent, but isn't laden with the quality the outside punditry claims, so I kind of expect it.

Defence - had to rob Peter to pay Paul by moving Richards into the midfield. Bramble and Duryea held up in the regular season, got found out a bit Friday as did Jones. Lobb was excellent

Midfield - the wings are inconsistent, overall the area would be rated as slow which kills you in finals. Our ruck seems incapable again of imposing himself on a finals outcome for whatever reason. Can dominate a game due to sheer quality of a few very good players, but if they don't perform the team struggles (honestly, like most teams do if the midfield doesn't yelp) and did I mention, they are slow?

Forwards - three talls, two of which are developing albeit extremely talented. Weightman the only dangerous small, the remainders battlers who can fill space but lack polish meaning we have to rely on ludicrous supply to kick a commanding score

What about that profile says consistent in-season and likely finals dominator? Not a lot to me, unless a LOT goes right at the right time.


Anyway, am I relieved or otherwise? Not really sure. I love footy, and while the team frustrates me sometimes I prefer to be watching them playing than not. I guess I don't have the same expectations on the group others do, because history is a great predictor of the future.

[whythelongface]

I mean… imagine Rocket was coach and your Monday review was Rocket saying ‘what happened Cody, you barely touched it?’.

‘Well Rocket. You win some. You lose some.’

The paint would striped off the walls.

Times have changed and for the better. I don?t think that anyone has to put up with that kind of crap in a workplace no matter how well you are paid.

[SonofScray]

Whatever happened to you win some, you get hungry to keep on winning?

Such an odd thing for an elite sportsman to say.

I’ve supported Cody through thin and thin.

[bulldogtragic]

Times have changed and for the better. I don?t think that anyone has to put up with that kind of crap in a workplace no matter how well you are paid.

Ok, let’s remove the aspect of workplace harassment that wasn’t intended. The greater point being, imagine going into your workplace after blowing a contract or other such corporate job non-sporting equivalent event and being so nonchalant about it. In the context of other comments in the thread about Bevo and his familiarity………..

[Grantysghost]

Ok, let’s remove the aspect of workplace harassment that wasn’t intended. The greater point being, imagine going into your workplace after blowing a contract or other such corporate job non-sporting equivalent event and being so nonchalant about it. In the context of other comments in the thread about Bevo and his familiarity………..
It's pretty tone deaf, however I think Cody has a whole spiritual outlook on things which may be just his way of dealing with the loss.
They were the ones out there busting their arses and elbows for the cause.

I saw Bailey Williams smiling after a loss earlier this year, I was annoyed however realised it's just a job for these guys. Does not indicate they don't care of course.

[whythelongface]

Ok, let’s remove the aspect of workplace harassment that wasn’t intended. The greater point being, imagine going into your workplace after blowing a contract or other such corporate job non-sporting equivalent event and being so nonchalant about it. In the context of other comments in the thread about Bevo and his familiarity………..

I get the frustration in his attitude and understand supporters thinking he doesn?t give a rats. Timing was probably pretty off but everyone responds to things differently. If that is how he overcomes his disappointment then so be it. You can tell Cody cares deeply about the team and results- he would be annoyed as anyone about the performance on Friday night. Think we are over analysing this to be frank

[jeemak]

I'm sure some platitudes from Cody would have made us all feel a lot better.

[bulldogtragic]

I get the frustration in his attitude and understand supporters thinking he doesn?t give a rats. Timing was probably pretty off but everyone responds to things differently. If that is how he overcomes his disappointment then so be it. You can tell Cody cares deeply about the team and results- he would be annoyed as anyone about the performance on Friday night. Think we are over analysing this to be frank

It’s the timing more so than the actual words, and I didnt intend on doing a deep dive. It’s like when a loved pet (or person) dies and immediately after it happens they tell you ‘they had a good innings’.

Maybe down the track you accept the broader point they’re trying to make. When the loss is fresh, it’s a little hard to swallow.

But if that’s the message he wants to send out to the world feel better than more power to him. To me, so close to the loss, I just find it pretty incongruent with a lot of professional athletes that just blew a golden opportunity. That was the only take away I had. GVGjr question about whether there’s too much familiarity is a different question that I don’t really know.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm sure some platitudes from Cody would have made us all feel a lot better.

He didn’t really have to say anything though did he? I’m not looking to hear comments of his from other posters to feel better or worse. I think from saying essentially it’s ‘weird’ to half a page of posts about it seems like a lot of energy being spent on nothing of any real consequence other than my view it’s seems a little weird to say it so soon after the loss. Beyond that, there’s way more constructive and consequential things impacting the clubs future.

[whythelongface]

It’s the timing more so than the actual words, and I didnt intend on doing a deep dive. It’s like when a loved pet (or person) dies and immediately after it happens they tell you ‘they had a good innings’.

Maybe down the track you accept the broader point they’re trying to make. When the loss is fresh, it’s a little hard to swallow.

But if that’s the message he wants to send out to the world feel better than more power to him. To me, so close to the loss, I just find it pretty incongruent with a lot of professional athletes that just blew a golden opportunity. That was the only take away I had. GVGjr question about whether there’s too much familiarity is a different question that I don’t really know.

Good points and totally respect what you are saying. Thanks

[jeemak]

He didn’t really have to say anything though did he? I’m not looking to hear comments of his from other posters to feel better or worse. I think from saying essentially it’s ‘weird’ to half a page of posts about it seems like a lot of energy being spent on nothing of any real consequence other than my view it’s seems a little weird to say it so soon after the loss. Beyond that, there’s way more constructive and consequential things impacting the clubs future.

Mate I honestly couldn't give a shit one way or the other. Just presenting another view where if he posted platitudes some would just say "well maybe you should have thought about that before you and your mates........" so on and so forth.

Ultimately I'm out of touch when it comes to understanding how managing elite athletes and their responses to losses works. Probably always was, but definitely am more so now given the generational gap. It's why I've never subscribed to the "we should have all watched the 2021 Grand Final together as a learning experience" sentiments or other things like that. I mean, what the **** would I know?

Cody and his ilk aren't stupid. They'd be really clear on what they did and didn't do well Friday, and perhaps letting go of it is the best medicine for a quick recovery.

[Sedat]

It's why I've never subscribed to the "we should have all watched the 2021 Grand Final together as a learning experience" sentiments or other things like that.
If it's good enough to review and analyse every H&A match in great detail, it is absolutely necessary to do the same in a failed GF. Otherwise how can you expect to learn and improve? All you're doing is setting yourself up for future failure by making the exact same mistakes again, and losing in the exact same manner (ergo 2022 EF), adding further fuel to the soft underbelly tag. How we mis-handled that 2021 GF loss in the days afterwards put us in a go-nowhere doom loop for the next 2 years, until we belatedly made changes in our coaching group and high performance dept. It was 18 months too late but we did make meaningful change last off-season, which was reflected in our stronger performance profile in 2024.

[Danjul]

If it's good enough to review and analyse every H&A match in great detail, it is absolutely necessary to do the same in a failed GF. Otherwise how can you expect to learn and improve? All you're doing is setting yourself up for future failure by making the exact same mistakes again, and losing in the exact same manner (ergo 2022 EF), adding further fuel to the soft underbelly tag. How we mis-handled that 2021 GF loss in the days afterwards put us in a go-nowhere doom loop for the next 2 years, until we belatedly made changes in our coaching group and high performance dept. It was 18 months too late but we did make meaningful change last off-season, which was reflected in our stronger performance profile in 2024.
To be fair, they only had to review the second half. The first half was brilliant.

[soupman]

Aside from not having to figure out the logistics of going to the remaining finals, not sure relief is an overwhelming emotion from Friday.

Frustration is probably the word.

It's sucks that we lost, but Hawthorn were awesome, I am not convinced we wouldn't have beaten a bunch of the other finalists, and if we have lost on the same manner to the Hawks but it was week 2 or 3 of finals we would see it as a pretty bug success. I know that doesn't make practical sense btw.

I'm certainly not feeling relief that we now get to/have to discuss:
English as a ruck.....again. Talk of dropping him to the VFL is honeslty just fatiguing.
Jamarras efforts, or perceived lack thereof.
We are too slow
Macrae and Daniels non futures.
Jones and Duryea and Libba going from best 22 certainties to "maybe they shouldn't be key players next year"
Bevo, no good, discuss.
Do the players care enough.
Baffling in game positional stuff, like Naughton in the ruck.

I dunno, relief is so far from what I'm feeling. This is the funnest part of the AFL season, and what all the other supposedly fun parts (Draft, Trade, H and A season, and all the discussion points above) are centred around. In no way do I want it to end prematurely so we can rush back into that stuff.

Absolutely I get the anxiety of worrying about the fall, but this is not one of those things where the fear of something is worse than it eventuating.

[Mofra]

"It's the hope that kills you"

[SonofScray]

"It's the hope that kills you"

What hope?

We’ll just do what we do and accept whatever happens. It is what it is at Footscray. Jobs for life, unconditional love and support and loyalty within the four walls, everything else is external noise.

There’s always next year.

[bulldogtragic]

What hope?

We’ll just do what we do and accept whatever happens. It is what it is at Footscray. Jobs for life, unconditional love and support and loyalty within the four walls, everything else is external noise.

There’s always next year.

Maybe that should be our permanent slogan for membership campaigns?

[The bulldog tragician]

Maybe that should be our permanent slogan for membership campaigns?

After 97 and 98 I thought we should have gone with: Please don’t hate us :)

[Mofra]

What hope?
Before Friday, I thought we were a chance of victory.

That hope.

[jeemak]

If it's good enough to review and analyse every H&A match in great detail, it is absolutely necessary to do the same in a failed GF. Otherwise how can you expect to learn and improve? All you're doing is setting yourself up for future failure by making the exact same mistakes again, and losing in the exact same manner (ergo 2022 EF), adding further fuel to the soft underbelly tag. How we mis-handled that 2021 GF loss in the days afterwards put us in a go-nowhere doom loop for the next 2 years, until we belatedly made changes in our coaching group and high performance dept. It was 18 months too late but we did make meaningful change last off-season, which was reflected in our stronger performance profile in 2024.

I get that it was said we didn't forensically analyse or review the 21 GF, but I don't doubt it was.

Our main issue following the GF was we had coaches stripped from us late and had to scramble to replace them. It would be disingenuous to question the competency of the replacements, because we don't really know. What we can say openly is that losing coaches had a massive impact on the squad (see the response when Rohan Smith was moved on).

Giving the players and coaching personnel such an easy out doesn't sit well with me, I mean, if we just reviewed that one game even though we'd already shown we were susceptible to what happened is kind of piss taking.

But you can hang onto that just like I won't, and I'll still love you.