Bulldog ONLY Trade News

[bulldogtragic]

Reports afel media that we have offered our F1 for GCS Pick 13 (they got from us this year). 6 clubs chasing the pick.

Carlton have offered up F1 & F2. So we might need to add pick/s to beat them if we really want it.

[EasternWest]

Reports afel media that we have offered our F1 for GCS Pick 13 (they got from us this year). 6 clubs chasing the pick.

Prima facie why would they go for this?

[bulldogtragic]

On face value why would they go for this?

They have an academy kid again, so it’s likely to go to the highest bidder. Currently Carlton with an extra F2. But they might want the points this year, so our picks from CD, Jack &/or 47 might do it.

Assuming Smith & F2 is 1st & F1. Big assumption.

That’d give us 13, 17, 35 or so this year plus, and a first next year still with a lot of spare salary cap.

[bulldogtragic]

The club thinks we are finishing top 8 or higher again.

[chef]

I'd rather hold our F1, will probs be a top 10 pick next season.

[EasternWest]

They have an academy kid again, so it’s likely to go to the highest bidder. Currently Carlton with an extra F2. But they might want the points this year, so our picks from CD, Jack &/or 47 might do it.

Assuming Smith & F2 is 1st & F1. Big assumption.

That’d give us 13, 17, 35 or so this year plus, and a first next year still with a lot of spare salary cap.

My head is spinning and I don't understand any of this. That's why we've got you.

[bulldogtragic]

My head is spinning and I don't understand any of this. That's why we've got you.

Essentially we won the trade casino with GCS and want to bet it all, double or nothing. I posted this morning we could try this, but would need some convincing. I’d really want to know we’ve got the first & F1 for Smith. If this occurs, then I’m happy to trade a F1 for Pick 13 this year, knowing there’s still one for next year.

Sounds like it’s going to be fierce competition for it.

[whythelongface]

They have an academy kid again, so it?s likely to go to the highest bidder. Currently Carlton with an extra F2. But they might want the points this year, so our picks from CD, Jack &/or 47 might do it.

Assuming Smith & F2 is 1st & F1. Big assumption.

That?d give us 13, 17, 35 or so this year plus, and a first next year still with a lot of spare salary cap.

Do we go to the draft or will we be making a play for someone? Interesting 10 days ahead

[Happy Days]

Prima facie why would they go for this?

My man said “Prima facie”

[bulldogtragic]

Do we go to the draft or will we be making a play for someone? Interesting 10 days ahead

That’s the fascinating thing. North & WCE are putting up picks 2 & 3 for multiple firsts and an F1.

If we turned Smith, CD, say 46 & 47, F1 & F2 for an out and out gun midfielder at Pick 3 & F2 would we want that from North?

So there’s an opportunity to rise to the really pointy end.

Or trade aggressively.

Or load up of late first round talent.


It’s another ballsy moved from Power whichever way he ultimately goes if he does it again.

[EasternWest]

My man said “Prima facie”

I didn't at first. But then I changed it because I wanted to sound more intellectumual because I was wading in waters too deep for me.

[Grantysghost]

That’s the fascinating thing. North & WCE are putting up picks 2 & 3 for multiple firsts and an F1.

If we turned Smith, CD, say 46 & 47, F1 & F2 for an out and out gun midfielder at Pick 3 & F2 would we want that from North?

So there’s an opportunity to rise to the really pointy end.

Or trade aggressively.

Or load up of late first round talent.


It’s another ballsy moved from Power whichever way he ultimately goes if he does it again.
Deeper draft I think we take the picks and use them.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I didn't at first. But then I changed it because I wanted to sound more intellectumual because I was wading in waters too deep for me.

BT don't play like that.

[bulldogtragic]

Deeper draft I think we take the picks and use them.

Playing with numbers. If we need to supplement our F1. If we can get 46 for Jack. 46 & 47 = Pick 29 in points to add to our F1. That’s a strong offer to GCS. If we can get 25 for CD (30 after bids) say a F3 if necessary to add for argument sake. Smith & F2 for 17 & F1.

2024: Natural Picks 13, 17, 25 & 35 and delisted free agent
2025: First (Geel), JOD elevated, LOTS of salary cap (FA?)
2026: West and perhaps Cooney

[bulldogtragic]

The Age also confirming we are after Pick 13 too.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

What if we want Butters next year?

[bulldogtragic]

What if we want Butters next year?

He’s signed until 2026. If he comes before then they’ll be asking for Marra.

[mjp]

He’s signed until 2026. If he comes before then they’ll be asking for Marra.

I'd do that.

[bulldogtragic]

Monday AM Update:

- Dogs after GCS Pick 13
- Dogs have 4 year offer for XOH
- Saints going to fight not to give up Pick 46 for Jack
- Garcia & CD yet to advise the club of intentions
- Sounds like Geelong’s offer is 17 (20+) alone for BS

[GVGjr]

Monday AM Update:

- Dogs after GCS Pick 13
- Dogs have 4 year offer for XOH
- Saints going to fight not to give up Pick 46 for Jack
- Garcia & CD yet to advise the club of intentions
- Sounds like Geelong’s offer is 17 (20+) alone for BS

Good summary.

After our early interest in Barrass and Houston, I'm a little surprised we aren't currently linked to at least one more player from another club but there is plenty of time for that to happen.

[bornadog]

Monday AM Update:

- Dogs after GCS Pick 13


From AFL site

The Demons and Bulldogs have both offered their future first-round pick in exchange for Gold Coast's pick 13, while the Swans have put forward picks 19 and 22.

[chef]

I'd do that.

Me too.

[azabob]

I am fully on board with trading our F1 and other picks to get GCS pick 13.

The draft appears to be stacked with midfielders in the first 20 odd picks.

As they stand, taking picks 13, 17, 35 and 47 to this years draft is crazy good and something we should do.

[Axe Man]

From AFL site

The Demons and Bulldogs have both offered their future first-round pick in exchange for Gold Coast's pick 13, while the Swans have put forward picks 19 and 22.

Carlton are offering their F1 and F2. Unless Gold Coast expects us to be crap next year I don't think we are going to win the auction with just our F1.

[bulldogtragic]

Carlton are offering their F1 and F2. Unless Gold Coast expects us to be crap next year I don't think we are going to win the auction with just our F1.

Yep. The question is is whether they want an F2 or points equal to a Second this year. We can do that easily enough if we want to up our offer.

[bornadog]

From The Age


The Bulldogs are also expected to drive a hard bargain with St Kilda for premiership midfielder Jack Macrae.

A source with knowledge of the negotiations, who would not be named to speak freely, said the Western Bulldogs were prepared to hold Macrae to his contract if the right deal can?t be found.

Macrae was on the fringes of selection in 2024 and ended up starting as a sub in the elimination final after being overlooked for James Harmes, who was playing his first match since round 12.

Macrae is contracted until 2027. An industry source, who preferred to remain anonymous while negotiations were under way, confirmed that the Saints were not keen to hand over pick 46 for the 30-year-old, who has battled for a permanent position in the Bulldogs? midfield in the past two seasons.

Both clubs are expected to use historic examples of trades of contracted veterans to argue their case when it comes to the trade.

[bulldogtragic]

From The Age

Seriously 46 is a straight up fair deal. Do it and move on.

[comrade]

Pick 46 too much for Jack ****ing Macrae? Alright, Saints.

[Mantis]

Pick 46 too much for Jack ****ing Macrae? Alright, Saints.

The system is completely broken.

Noble is potentially worth pick 13, but Macrae pick 60 something??

[angelopetraglia]

The system is completely broken.

Noble is potentially worth pick 13, but Macrae pick 60 something??

Agree.

However. We damaged Macrae's value during the year. We dropped him. Played him as a sub in the final. So we told the footy world he is surplus to our needs. Why would you play top value for a player who can't make the best 22 of a team that can't get past the first week of the finals?

[Happy Days]

I am fully on board with trading our F1 and other picks to get GCS pick 13.

The draft appears to be stacked with midfielders in the first 20 odd picks.

As they stand, taking picks 13, 17, 35 and 47 to this years draft is crazy good and something we should do.

Can we use GC as a holding company to trade our future first for our current first in perpetuity? Honestly would be a great bit if nothing else.

[comrade]

Agree.

However. We damaged Macrae's value during the year. We dropped him. Played him as a sub in the final. So we told the footy world he is surplus to our needs. Why would you play top value for a player who can't make the best 22 of a team that can't get past the first week of the finals?

He?s contracted and the Saints want him. He?s not surplus to their needs, which is the most important element. Pay a more than fair price and get a deal done, rather than convince a player to request a trade then lowball the seller and deal in bad faith. From the outside looking in, we?re expected to act like door mats by the footy world.

[angelopetraglia]

He?s contracted and the Saints want him. He?s not surplus to their needs, which is the most important element. Pay a more than fair price and get a deal done, rather than convince a player to request a trade then lowball the seller and deal in bad faith. From the outside looking in, we?re expected to act like door mats by the footy world.

Agree. We have leverage as he his contracted. However, my point is still valid. His value would have been higher if we traded him last year.

[Mantis]

Agree. We have leverage as he his contracted. However, my point is still valid. His value would have been higher if we traded him last year.

I fully understand Macrae?s value has been lessened by our use of him, but when compared to Noble one would think their respective worth would be similar.

Maybe Noble holds a little higher value, but not to the level that is being reported.

[Grantysghost]

I'd do that.

And you wanna be my latex salesman......

[Axe Man]

The system is completely broken.

Noble is potentially worth pick 13, but Macrae pick 60 something??

I don't think anybody thinks Noble is worth pick 13 and that's not the deal being proposed:


Collingwood, meanwhile, is targeting the pick as part of the John Noble trade to the Suns. That would require the Magpies to also give up a future first-round pick, but they would also look to get back pick 23 from Gold Coast in return.

[G-Mo77]

Agree.

However. We damaged Macrae's value during the year. We dropped him. Played him as a sub in the final. So we told the footy world he is surplus to our needs. Why would you play top value for a player who can't make the best 22 of a team that can't get past the first week of the finals?

Sadly you're right. I think 46 is fair for both parties and think they'll fall to that eventually I can't blame them for trying though.

We hardly played him and we are over paying him, they're kind of doing us a favour by taking him off our books and those deals tend to be very lop sided. We got Treloar for a downgrade of picks, we're not that desperate to clear space as much as Collingwood were back then but it's heavily in our favour, supporters are not going to be pleased if they're expecting a lot in return.

[bornadog]

Agree.

However. We damaged Macrae's value during the year. We dropped him. Played him as a sub in the final. So we told the footy world he is surplus to our needs. Why would you play top value for a player who can't make the best 22 of a team that can't get past the first week of the finals?

Although he was sub a few times, still ended up with 19 games for the year

[Axe Man]

Sadly you're right. I think 46 is fair for both parties and think they'll fall to that eventually I can't blame them for trying though.

We hardly played him and we are over paying him, they're kind of doing us a favour by taking him off our books and those deals tend to be very lop sided. We got Treloar for a downgrade of picks, we're not that desperate to clear space as much as Collingwood were back then but it's heavily in our favour, supporters are not going to be pleased if they're expecting a lot in return.

I don't disagree with what you are saying but the prevailing narrative that he was playing VFL for most of the year simply isn't true. He played 3 VFL games. The first was when he was returning from injury at the start of the season. The only other time he was out of the side was from rounds 21-23 when he played 2 VFL games. 19 AFL games is not hardly playing him, especially when he wasn't available for selection for the first couple of weeks.

[lemmon]

Agree.

However. We damaged Macrae's value during the year. We dropped him. Played him as a sub in the final. So we told the footy world he is surplus to our needs. Why would you play top value for a player who can't make the best 22 of a team that can't get past the first week of the finals?

All of those things are true, but also irrelevant. He's contracted, so at the end of the day his value is whatever we deem it to be. It's the same with XOH - we'll have to give up whatever GWS deem valuable enough to release him from his contract.

At the end of the day, it's an 18-team competition and there's no point giving a leg up to rivals unless we're receiving compensation that we deem fair value.

[jazzadogs]

AFL website says Sam Power will be on trade radio at 1pm. Would love a summary from anyone who is able to listen in!

[azabob]

AFL website says Sam Power will be on trade radio at 1pm. Would love a summary from anyone who is able to listen in!

jazzdogs, not sure if you know or not but there will be a podcast replay up throughout the day.

[jazzadogs]

jazzdogs, not sure if you know or not but there will be a podcast replay up throughout the day.

Thanks. What's the ratio of ads to content during the podcast? Can't be worse than the live product.

[Hotdog60]

AFL website says Sam Power will be on trade radio at 1pm. Would love a summary from anyone who is able to listen in!

Played a straight bat and gave away nothing.

[my plums]

Played a straight bat and gave away nothing.

He said a lot without saying anything at all.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Played a straight bat and gave away nothing.


He said a lot without saying anything at all.

So which was it? :D

[bornadog]

AFL website says Sam Power will be on trade radio at 1pm. Would love a summary from anyone who is able to listen in!


Played a straight bat and gave away nothing.

*Bailey Smith - Looking for a lot more - when pressed what that is said just looking for a lot.
* Macrae - No chats with Saints at this stage. Unless it suits Dogs, won't be giving him away
* Caleb Daniel - No indication from his management about staying or going.
* XOH - No comment, he is a contracted player
* Looking at athletic mids
* Pick 13 - If we don't get that, we are open to trading for other opportunities to get into round 1
* Dan Housten - I missed exactly what he said.

[Countrydog5]

List managers, media members and player managers alike would all hate how close Sam keeps his cards to his chest. I'm starting to think he's stitched his eyelids to his forehead because the man does not blink, or give even the slightest of hints as to what he's thinking. It's hilarious

[jazzadogs]

*Bailey Smith - Looking for a lot more - when pressed what that is said just looking for a lot.
* Macrae - No chats with Saints at this stage. Unless it suits Dogs, won't be giving him away
* Caleb Daniel - No indication from his management about staying or going.
* XOH - No comment, he is a contracted player
* Looking at athletic mids
* Pick 13 - If we don't get that, we are open to trading for other opportunities to get into round 1
* Dan Housten - I missed exactly what he said.

Contracted no comment.

[jazzadogs]

List managers, media members and player managers alike would all hate how close Sam keeps his cards to his chest. I'm starting to think he's stitched his eyelids to his forehead because the man does not blink, or give even the slightest of hints as to what he's thinking. It's hilarious

I ended up being able to listen and it was very funny how they crossed back to the hosts who immediately slammed him for being boring and not giving them anything to talk about.

Stupid Sam Power doing his job, rather than creating #content about who he thinks is #gettable.

Edit: just realised the hosts are Tom Morris and Dan Hanneberry who both famously love the Bulldogs.

[bornadog]

"We think Bailey is worth a lot. We expect a lot for him."


- Sam Power on Bailey Smith

[chef]

"We think Bailey is worth a lot. We expect a lot for him."


- Sam Power on Bailey Smith

Sadly we don't have any hand. Uncontracted puts us in a beggar position.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Sadly we don't have any hand. Uncontracted puts us in a beggar position.

There were rumours about hawks offering pick 5 for him last year. You wonder what, if any, offers we had and what we may have knocked back.

[Jeanette54]

If the Saints trade of Jack Macrae doesn't happen, would he still play for us? I have no doubt that he has been told he may not get to play in the position he wants this season, but still hoping he remains with us.

I hate this time of year; Jack should be a Bulldog for life.

[angelopetraglia]

If the Saints trade of Jack Macrae doesn't happen, would he still play for us? I have no doubt that he has been told he may not get to play in the position he wants this season, but still hoping he remains with us.

I hate this time of year; Jack should be a Bulldog for life.

He is contracted. He doesn't have a choice. If we don't trade him. He will play in the red, white and blue.

[angelopetraglia]

Sam Power three minute interview for those interested.

https://x.com/traderadio/status/1843113161811181994

[angelopetraglia]

"We are waiting on an answer from Caleb Daniel, he has plenty to think about. We think we can provide him with an ideal playing position." - Brady Rawlings, North Melbourne List Manager

[angelopetraglia]

"Ivan is a contracted player and there' a fair bit of work to do. Exactly the same with Jack Macrae. We have run a dual narrative with the draft and trade. We will go to the Draft again this year." - David Misson, St Kilda GM of Footy

[azabob]

Thanks. What's the ratio of ads to content during the podcast? Can't be worse than the live product.

One or two adds at the start then zero until the end. The only way to listen.

[Countrydog5]

I ended up being able to listen and it was very funny how they crossed back to the hosts who immediately slammed him for being boring and not giving them anything to talk about.

Stupid Sam Power doing his job, rather than creating #content about who he thinks is #gettable.

Edit: just realised the hosts are Tom Morris and Dan Hanneberry who both famously love the Bulldogs.

Approach a famously tight lipped list manager for an interview, be shocked and upset said list manager gives nothing away. Really stunned the two Einstein's in Morris and Hannebery

[Sedat]

One or two adds at the start then zero until the end. The only way to listen.
Yes, but it doesn't feel the same without hearing ads for Robot Building Supplies and Ace Gutters every 5 minutes.

[jeemak]

Yes, but it doesn't feel the same without hearing ads for Robot Building Supplies and Ace Gutters every 5 minutes.

Can somebody get Franco off the toilet? It?s not connected!!

[Grantysghost]

Sam Power three minute interview for those interested.

https://x.com/traderadio/status/1843113161811181994

Thanks AP! Love Sam, he winds people up by being so vanilla but that's exactly what I want.
Did he accidently say court there!?

[Scraggers]

What is Sam Power's record when being bent over on deals? From my recollection he has stood firm and done us good. I can't recall a deal that was well-unders what we were asking for (please correct me if I'm wrong)

If I am correct, I am happy to play hard ball with Bailey Smith and let him walk to the PSD. I would rather get Sweet FA than lose a deal to Geelong. Happy to play real hardball here ... play stupid games, win stupid prizes ... happy to get nothing for him and Richmond get a free hit (like them more than Geelong) :p

[GVGjr]

*Bailey Smith - Looking for a lot more - when pressed what that is said just looking for a lot.
* Macrae - No chats with Saints at this stage. Unless it suits Dogs, won't be giving him away
* Caleb Daniel - No indication from his management about staying or going.
* XOH - No comment, he is a contracted player
* Looking at athletic mids
* Pick 13 - If we don't get that, we are open to trading for other opportunities to get into round 1
* Dan Housten - I missed exactly what he said.

Good summary
Regarding Houston, he basically just said there is a lot of interest in him but he's contracted.

Bloody hard to expect more direct or detailed answers unless a player has actually put in a request to come too us.
Power is copping a bit of stick for his straight bat answers but it's not like he can share much more than what he has.

[Grantysghost]

Good summary
Regarding Houston, he basically just said there is a lot of interest in him but he's contracted.

Bloody hard to expect more direct or detailed answers unless a player has actually put in a request to come too us.
Power is copping a bit of stick for his straight bat answers but it's not like he can share much more than what he has.
Lots of flogs on socials isn't there.

The sky is falling and no one will make it stop.

What exactly do they want him to say?

[jazzadogs]

We have increased our offer to Garcia, from two years to three years. To me this indicates that we are valuing his signature higher now that our other targets are highly unlikely. Hope he stays and works on his deficits.

[DOG GOD]

I'd do that.

100%

[bulldogtragic]

Monday AM Update:

- Dogs after GCS Pick 13
- Dogs have 4 year offer for XOH
- Saints going to fight not to give up Pick 46 for Jack
- Garcia & CD yet to advise the club of intentions
- Sounds like Geelong?s offer is 17 (20+) alone for BS

Monday PM Update

- Collingwood now strong favourites for GCS Pick 13
- XOH unlikely to be released
- Saints haven?t made a formal offer for Jack
- Garcia offer from us increased to 3 years, CD yet to decide
- Geelong still sound a long way off


We are firing more blanks than Tom Cruise.

[Happy Days]

- Collingwood now strong favourites for GCS Pick 13
- XOH unlikely to be released
- Saints haven?t made a formal offer for Jack
- Garcia offer from us increased to 3 years, CD yet to decide
- Geelong still sound a long way off


We are firing more blanks than Tom Cruise.

We can always recruit Ethan Hunt out of the VFL team though.

[GVGjr]

We have increased our offer to Garcia, from two years to three years. To me this indicates that we are valuing his signature higher now that our other targets are highly unlikely. Hope he stays and works on his deficits.

He should jump at a 3 year offer. He's still got some improvement to achieve as well.

[DOG GOD]

Monday PM Update

- Collingwood now strong favourites for GCS Pick 13
- XOH unlikely to be released
- Saints haven?t made a formal offer for Jack
- Garcia offer from us increased to 3 years, CD yet to decide
- Geelong still sound a long way off


We are firing more blanks than Tom Cruise.

Geel has a dunk/Bris vibe all over it. I can see it going down to the last 1/2 hour and we accept pick 17 and 17 only.

[Eastdog]

Geel has a dunk/Bris vibe all over it. I can see it going down to the last 1/2 hour and we accept pick 17 and 17 only.

Yeah I know what you mean. I hope we don’t give in that easily and get the best possible deal.

Him being out of contract makes a difference.

[azabob]

North are offering Caleb Daniel a four year contract according to Mitch Cleary.

Currently he has two more years remaining.

[1eyedog]

Another two Bulldog Premiership players potentially running around against us next season. Sheez.

Not sure Geelong are factoring in the boost to membership and merchandise sales Smith will bring in next year. How do you quantify it though?

[Eastdog]

Yes, but it doesn't feel the same without hearing ads for Robot Building Supplies and Ace Gutters every 5 minutes.

And Spitwater :D

[Grantysghost]

North are offering Caleb Daniel a four year contract according to Mitch Cleary.

Currently he has two more years remaining.
He'd be mad not to take that. He needs to look after himself.

[bulldogtragic]

He'd be mad not to take that. He needs to look after himself.

Yep. And North have to offer up 25 (30 after bids) too.

Win-Win.

[1eyedog]

You can't say we don't have a clear plan re. the type of players we're after or that we're not turning over the list (or keeping our vets a year too long).

[1eyedog]

What is Sam Power's record when being bent over on deals? From my recollection he has stood firm and done us good. I can't recall a deal that was well-unders what we were asking for (please correct me if I'm wrong)

If I am correct, I am happy to play hard ball with Bailey Smith and let him walk to the PSD. I would rather get Sweet FA than lose a deal to Geelong. Happy to play real hardball here ... play stupid games, win stupid prizes ... happy to get nothing for him and Richmond get a free hit (like them more than Geelong) :p

We're running a business no one at the club would cut their noses to spite their faces, and rightfully so!

I wasn't happy with the Dunkley numbers or the Stringer numbers at the time but I was proven wrong on that count.

Yeah the Dunkley one wasn't great nor was the Kelvin Templeton one but luckily a bit before Power's time.

[GVGjr]

North are offering Caleb Daniel a four year contract according to Mitch Cleary.

Currently he has two more years remaining.

This will be a huge test. He seems to love the club, players and coaches but a 4 year deal is compelling.
Most people in his position would ask the club to trade him but Daniel might not.

[jazzadogs]

This will be a huge test. He seems to love the club, players and coaches but a 4 year deal is compelling.
Most people in his position would ask the club to trade him but Daniel might not.

I wonder how the salary compares (I assume his current contract is good money?), and whether the Dogs would extend his tenure by spreading out his salary. Match the years, reduce our salary burden, get close to what north are offering?

I am also comfortable with him cashing in if north are offering more cash, assuming we get a return that reflects that.

[GVGjr]

I wonder how the salary compares (I assume his current contract is good money?), and whether the Dogs would extend his tenure by spreading out his salary. Match the years, reduce our salary burden, get close to what north are offering?

I am also comfortable with him cashing in if north are offering more cash, assuming we get a return that reflects that.

North have some cap room so I'd imagine it could be a lucrative incentive for him.
Lets say he's on 650K with us. They might be offering 2M+ spread over the 4 years.

[jeemak]

North are offering Caleb Daniel a four year contract according to Mitch Cleary.

Currently he has two more years remaining.

Soooo, that's closer to a first round than a second round pick for him then.

He's contracted, we can afford him and we'll use him. If they want to double his tenure then it's time for them to pay up.

AA, Sutton medalist, still plenty of good years apparently. Late first is the compensation.

[jeemak]

Yep. And North have to offer up 25 (30 after bids) too.

Win-Win.

25 isn't enough.

If they're willing to offer up four years then it's actually a massive deal. They need to throw in a sweetener.

[bulldogtragic]

25 isn't enough.

If they're willing to offer up four years then it's actually a massive deal. They need to throw in a sweetener.

Problem 25 is it’s the third pick in the second round. It’s a really good second rounder. Not sure they’d add a F2, unless it was a swap of F2 or swap of F3. If more was demanded and offered maybe their 43 for our 47? Then 47 to Sydney for Parker?

I agree the contract is in the minimum pick 25 range.

It’s definitely getting to the point of not convincing him to stay at this range. He, Jack & Smith is $2M plus the recently savings from Hunter, Schache (lesser) & Dunkley. If we could find players that wanted to play here and take it, that’s be huge.

[G-Mo77]

Again I ask this, how can we expect a high 2nd rounder when we can't even find a place for him in the best 22. They can offer him 10 years, that does not change his value which we completely destroyed in 2024.

[ReLoad]

Again I ask this, how can we expect a high 2nd rounder when we can't even find a place for him in the best 22. They can offer him 10 years, that does not change his value which we completely destroyed in 2024.

Its not the value to us, its rather the value to them.

[bulldogtragic]

Its not the value to us, its rather the value to them.

This. They really want him and he’s contracted. He’s a great addition for them to put their young guns in the middle and have him at HB. He makes them a much better balanced side and a great leader too. If they want that as they do then 25 (30) is the starting point.

[GVGjr]

Again I ask this, how can we expect a high 2nd rounder when we can't even find a place for him in the best 22. They can offer him 10 years, that does not change his value which we completely destroyed in 2024.

Assuming Macrae heads to the Saints then I'd say Daniel is right back into the 22 because basically they were fighting for the same spot.
Daniel actually meets a lot of the requirements that North are chasing and that's why they have put a 4 year deal in front of him.
They're not just taking on his contract, they're appear to wanting to invest in him for the longer term
Perhaps we have to give a little something back too North to even out the deal but if that trade goes through it's good for both teams.
North get the experience, versatility and great team player that he is and we get a pick in the top 30. Their list is already stacked with draft talent so they are open to bringing in a few players to work with and support those youngsters.

[G-Mo77]

This. They really want him and he’s contracted. He’s a great addition for them to put their young guns in the middle and have him at HB. He makes them a much better balanced side and a great leader too. If they want that as they do then 25 (30) is the starting point.

Be realistic here and take our Bulldogs caps off, if we were chasing Caleb would you be happy giving up a high 2nd round pick? I know I wouldn't be, my starting would be a 3rd rounder.

[bulldogtragic]

Be realistic here and take our Bulldogs caps off, if we were chasing Caleb would you be happy giving up a high 2nd round pick? I know I wouldn't be, my starting would be a 3rd rounder.

No bulldog cap here. It’s in effect Pick 30. They’re offering 4 years and have stated they need leaders like him on field and for their balance on field we led they need him. He’s under contract and we don’t have to deal. Without compo picks their natural 3rd would be 39. My position he’s worth slightly more than that owing to him being contracted and them putting up 4 years. He’s got a spot with us next year, unless North back it up. If they do with 25 (30) then we let him go. If not he stays. North are doing the chasing and throwing around large year contracts. North have to pay a fair price if they want that.

[G-Mo77]

The way I see it we don't trade him at all. He's not worth a 2nd on the market right now and is a valuable player if used correctly. Losing potentially 3 senior players and getting some numbers back is a horrible situation for us, we need to tread very carefully here.

[bulldogtragic]

The way I see it we don't trade him at all. He's not worth a 2nd on the market right now and is a valuable player if used correctly. Losing potentially 3 senior players and getting some numbers back is a horrible situation for us, we need to tread very carefully here.

I don’t think he gets traded except for that 25 (3). To me it’s either a good enough pick to warrant the trade or he stays. We need to keep rebuilding on the move and a solid pick helps that. But on this one I’m happy enough to see it go through at a good price or keep him. I’m not overly fussed.

[GVGjr]

Be realistic here and take our Bulldogs caps off, if we were chasing Caleb would you be happy giving up a high 2nd round pick? I know I wouldn't be, my starting would be a 3rd rounder.

It's apples and oranges, North have a plethora of young talent and their needs are vastly different to ours. They've identified Daniel as someone they want to bring into their squad and they might be comfortable enough to pay a bit overs.
I agree that on face value they would be overpaying and perhaps we will have to give something else back but their needs are very different to ours.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

The way I see it we don't trade him at all. He's not worth a 2nd on the market right now and is a valuable player if used correctly. Losing potentially 3 senior players and getting some numbers back is a horrible situation for us, we need to tread very carefully here.

Especially when we're hearing we're considering trading our future 1st. I'm not sure I like the scenario of losing Macrae and Daniel AND trading our future 1st.

[jazzadogs]

When you combine the chat about our best and fairest top 10 all being 27+ except for Richards, and the fact that Caleb and Jack are closer to the fringe than the core of the side now...trading them out and bringing in more young kids is probably exactly what our list actually needs.

This isn't a Norf fire sale of a few years ago where they delisted every single veteran on their list - if we lose Jack and Caleb we still have considerable experience and leadership in the squad.

[bornadog]

When you combine the chat about our best and fairest top 10 all being 27+ except for Richards, and the fact that Caleb and Jack are closer to the fringe than the core of the side now...trading them out and bringing in more young kids is probably exactly what our list actually needs.

This isn't a Norf fire sale of a few years ago where they delisted every single veteran on their list - if we lose Jack and Caleb we still have considerable experience and leadership in the squad.

I said in another thread that we should be hitting the draft and forget the trade unless we bring in a young gun (somehow).

[1eyedog]

Be realistic here and take our Bulldogs caps off, if we were chasing Caleb would you be happy giving up a high 2nd round pick? I know I wouldn't be, my starting would be a 3rd rounder.

For us, no. For North, it makes more sense especially following Clarkson coming out late this season stating they were after good experienced players.

[1eyedog]

I said in another thread that we should be hitting the draft and forget the trade unless we bring in a young gun (somehow).

We've hit zero targets so far so it looks like that's the only option for us.

[Sedat]

We've hit zero targets so far so it looks like that's the only option for us.
Sometimes hitting zero targets is a big win - I give you Lobbe and Bate as evidence.

[GVGjr]

I said in another thread that we should be hitting the draft and forget the trade unless we bring in a young gun (somehow).

I liked what we did last year in bringing in 5 players from the National draft and it's been a bugbear for a few of us here over many years that we don't seem to hit the draft enough and back ourselves with some later picks. Yes, bringing in Marra, Treloar and Darcy reduced our draft capital but we now need to address it.

If we can get 3 top 30 players through the draft this year and perhaps 1 or 2 a bit later I think that will serve us better. That said, adding needs based players via trades should always be considered.

[The Underdog]

Sometimes hitting zero targets is a big win - I give you Lobbe and Bate as evidence.

If Wingard had chosen us, we’d have avoided this whole Bailey Smith mess.

[Mofra]

Be realistic here and take our Bulldogs caps off, if we were chasing Caleb would you be happy giving up a high 2nd round pick? I know I wouldn't be, my starting would be a 3rd rounder.
We were giving a 2nd rounder for Peatling weren't we, on a similar contract?
North have had more picks recently than Barratt has enemies so they do have draft capital (and cap) to spare.

[1eyedog]

Sometimes hitting zero targets is a big win - I give you Lobbe and Bate as evidence.

There is two sides to every story. Of the current list Bramble, Lobb and Duryea have been fantastic.

Baz, Macrae, Daniel and Garcia creates a bit of a vacuum so hopefully Sanders, Gallagher, Harmes, Poulter, Cleary can step up.

I'm still not convinced our potential outgoings are adequately replaced by what remains on the list (assuming our incomings through the draft are a season or two away from playing), but we're clearly moving very deliberately in a certain direction and that's a positive at this stage.

[Sedat]

There is two sides to every story. Of the current list Bramble, Lobb and Duryea have been fantastic.

Baz, Macrae, Daniel and Garcia creates a bit of a vacuum so hopefully Sanders, Gallagher, Harmes, Poulter, Cleary can step up.

I'm still not convinced our potential outgoings are adequately replaced by what remains on the list but we're clearly moving very deliberately in a certain direction and that's a positive at this stage.
Agreed but I reckon there's been a little too much doom and gloom in relation to post-season discussions around us (not from you), which I personally find surprising for a team that had the best defensive/attacking profile in the competition for the entire 2024 H&A season - the only other 2 teams with comparable balanced profiles were Hawthorn who were white-hot and knocked us off in the EF, and Brisbane who won the whole shooting match.

We have been quite deliberate with our list management strategy this off-season and also who we are specifically targeting that can add to areas of deficiency. The 2021 halcyon days are well and truly over and the game has change significantly even in that short period of time, so we have adapted accordingly this year (2 years too late IMO, but better late than never).

The elite tank one-paced accumulator is not going to get it done in 2025 - Macrae and Daniel are victims of the changing landscape but Daniel has elite disposal and decision-making weapons that are still valuable. Macrae in the right team feeds it to the outside runners, so he would be also be valuable in the right set-up. And clearly we have targeted unsexy players this off-season but those who perform roles which we have in short supply - Peatling as that defensive-oriented mid (to replace the Dunkley hole) and XOH to add to our high-half forward stocks (every team except Geelong, Hawthorn and GWS needs more of these types, not less).

We've also been hamstrung by some overly generous list management contract extensions in recent years that will hopefully be rectified next year.

I don't see the negativity that some others do at the moment. Power is not going to get screwed over in the next 8 days - he's as tough at the trade table as anyone - and we will bring in some more quality via the draft and also potentially bring in some seasoned players to bolster areas of need. I am still concerned with our ruck set-up at stoppages (especially in big games when it counts), but it is what it is.

[Axe Man]

AFL.com.au's Josh Gabelich believes Riley Garcia is set to stay at the Western Bulldogs on a three-year deal.

Garcia had attracted interest from Port Adelaide, who yesterday received a trade commitment from Collingwood's Joe Richards.

But with Bailey Smith and Jack Macrae seeking trades – plus Greater Western Sydney unwilling to let Xavier O’Halloran move – the Bulldogs are determined to keep Garcia.

"I think he'll stay at the Western Bulldogs," Gabelich said this morning.

[mjp]

I liked what we did last year in bringing in 5 players from the National draft and it's been a bugbear for a few of us here over many years that we don't seem to hit the draft enough and back ourselves with some later picks. Yes, bringing in Marra, Treloar and Darcy reduced our draft capital but we now need to address it.


But why does hitting the draft 'HARD' need to mean moving on players who can/are contributing?

I don't know Caleb personally but he has fought for EVERYTHING he has gotten in footy. He was a top 10 (probably top 5) player based on output in his draft year and fell down the order because he's small. He's worn a helmet all his life - in an era when he would have been the ONLY one - because his mum said he had too (and if you think that wouldn't have led to a heap of ridicule AND targeting on field then, well...)...he was (supposedly) overheard telling Bevo he's up to do ANYTHING for the team during the late season game against the Giants...

To me, blokes like this DON'T grow on trees. He's in the leadership group - and he has genuinely led the way in terms of the effort and team first attitude he has displayed.

Was 2024 his best ever season? No. But rule this bloke out at your peril - he is going to find a way...if we trade him, we're gonna regret it.

[kruder]

But why does hitting the draft 'HARD' need to mean moving on players who can/are contributing?

I don't know Caleb personally but he has fought for EVERYTHING he has gotten in footy. He was a top 10 (probably top 5) player based on output in his draft year and fell down the order because he's small. He's worn a helmet all his life - in an era when he would have been the ONLY one - because his mum said he had too (and if you think that wouldn't have led to a heap of ridicule AND targeting on field then, well...)...he was (supposedly) overheard telling Bevo he's up to do ANYTHING for the team during the late season game against the Giants...

To me, blokes like this DON'T grow on trees. He's in the leadership group - and he has genuinely led the way in terms of the effort and team first attitude he has displayed.

Was 2024 his best ever season? No. But rule this bloke out at your peril - he is going to find a way...if we trade him, we're gonna regret it.

Yeah it's interesting after having one below average year that we would consider selling him for a bag of chips. I think we can settle him down back next year particularly now we have plenty of talls around him and lets back him in because we certainly missed his elite disposal this year.

[Axe Man]

Yeah it's interesting after having one below average year that we would consider selling him for a bag of chips. I think we can settle him down back next year particularly now we have plenty of talls around him and lets back him in because we certainly missed his elite disposal this year.

The problem is our preferred back 7 by the end of the season seemed to be 3 talls plus Dale, Bramble, Duryea and Freijah. Who do you tip out? I would be hesitant to move Freijah to a wing yet as I feel like it's a tougher position to play, even though he may end up there eventually.

[mjp]

Agreed but I reckon there's been a little too much doom and gloom in relation to post-season discussions around us (not from you), which I personally find surprising for a team that had the best defensive/attacking profile in the competition for the entire 2024 H&A season - the only other 2 teams with comparable balanced profiles were Hawthorn who were white-hot and knocked us off in the EF, and Brisbane who won the whole shooting match.


100% mate.

The negativity is coming from a pretty tepid performance in a knock-out final...sadly that night several of our biggest/most highly paid players (Bont, Naughton, Jamarra) were poor ==> putrid and we made some 'interesting' selection decisions (Harms > Macrae)...

The impression we have left everyone with is a lot closer to Melbourne's year than Hawthorn/Brisbane's years even though our statistical rankings have us closer to the latter than the former...

My concern right now is not the draft and trade period. It's the ability of the coaching team to get us out of the blocks a LITTLE bit quicker so we don't spend all of July and August desperately scratching for victories to try and pinch a spot at the bottom of the 8. It's clear our pre-season's have not been 'RIGHT' for some time now and - Skinner Reserve issues/excuses aside - it really is time to sort that out.

[kruder]

The problem is our preferred back 7 by the end of the season seemed to be 3 talls plus Dale, Bramble, Duryea and Freijah. Who do you tip out? I would be hesitant to move Freijah to a wing yet as I feel like it's a tougher position to play, even though he may end up there eventually.

Bramble has had 1 good year at AFL level, fringe players are notorious for having a good first year after moving and then disappearing while Joel is young still hence still think there is role there for CD.

[jazzadogs]

But why does hitting the draft 'HARD' need to mean moving on players who can/are contributing?

I don't know Caleb personally but he has fought for EVERYTHING he has gotten in footy. He was a top 10 (probably top 5) player based on output in his draft year and fell down the order because he's small. He's worn a helmet all his life - in an era when he would have been the ONLY one - because his mum said he had too (and if you think that wouldn't have led to a heap of ridicule AND targeting on field then, well...)...he was (supposedly) overheard telling Bevo he's up to do ANYTHING for the team during the late season game against the Giants...

To me, blokes like this DON'T grow on trees. He's in the leadership group - and he has genuinely led the way in terms of the effort and team first attitude he has displayed.

Was 2024 his best ever season? No. But rule this bloke out at your peril - he is going to find a way...if we trade him, we're gonna regret it.

I'm genuinely not convinced that we WANT to trade Caleb. If he is offered four years by North, and we only have him contracted for two more, that does become a tricky discussion for a great leader on decent money who didn't play that much (16 games with 8 as sub). We love him, but does that make a four year deal the right choice?

[Axe Man]

Bramble has had 1 good year at AFL level, fringe players are notorious for having a good first year after moving and then disappearing while Joel is young still hence still think there is role there for CD.

Don't get me wrong, I want Caleb to stay but I do struggle to identify a clear role for him going forward. By the same token I am happy for him to be a plug and play solution where needed.

[1eyedog]

Agreed but I reckon there's been a little too much doom and gloom in relation to post-season discussions around us (not from you), which I personally find surprising for a team that had the best defensive/attacking profile in the competition for the entire 2024 H&A season - the only other 2 teams with comparable balanced profiles were Hawthorn who were white-hot and knocked us off in the EF, and Brisbane who won the whole shooting match.

We have been quite deliberate with our list management strategy this off-season and also who we are specifically targeting that can add to areas of deficiency. The 2021 halcyon days are well and truly over and the game has change significantly even in that short period of time, so we have adapted accordingly this year (2 years too late IMO, but better late than never).

The elite tank one-paced accumulator is not going to get it done in 2025 - Macrae and Daniel are victims of the changing landscape but Daniel has elite disposal and decision-making weapons that are still valuable. Macrae in the right team feeds it to the outside runners, so he would be also be valuable in the right set-up. And clearly we have targeted unsexy players this off-season but those who perform roles which we have in short supply - Peatling as that defensive-oriented mid (to replace the Dunkley hole) and XOH to add to our high-half forward stocks (every team except Geelong, Hawthorn and GWS needs more of these types, not less).

We've also been hamstrung by some overly generous list management contract extensions in recent years that will hopefully be rectified next year.

I don't see the negativity that some others do at the moment. Power is not going to get screwed over in the next 8 days - he's as tough at the trade table as anyone - and we will bring in some more quality via the draft and also potentially bring in some seasoned players to bolster areas of need. I am still concerned with our ruck set-up at stoppages (especially in big games when it counts), but it is what it is.

Yeah agreed I actually think the list is in better shape than its ever been and still do think it's a deep finals list, if we can just get a few things right. The personnel we're using at stoppages needs a bit of a shake up and we really need to sort out this small forward circus we've been rolling out.

If we can get another level from Jamarra, Darcy, Sanders and Freijah and some consistency from West we're an immediately better side. If Buss comes on that would be nice too as we really need some surety in that third tall role that Khamis and Coffield have been so far unable to bring.

[bulldogtragic]

Trade Radio:

"I believe the Saints and Dogs are haggling over that late 40s pick for Jack Macrae. The Dogs are not accepting that for him. It seems like one that will drag on for a while."

- Dan Hannebery on the Jack Macrae deal between the Dogs and the Saints

[Grantysghost]

Trade Radio:

"I believe the Saints and Dogs are haggling over that late 40s pick for Jack Macrae. The Dogs are not accepting that for him. It seems like one that will drag on for a while."

- Dan Hannebery on the Jack Macrae deal between the Dogs and the Saints
The beauty of the contract.

[Rocco Jones]

In terms of Macrae and Daniel, it's pretty layered.

What do we see as the potential of them rising above fringe? If we see a them as fringe and probably losing value over the next couple of years, then a salary dump trade really makes a lot of sense even if we don't get much value draft picks wise.

If we trade them, I think the main motive would be salary dumping, do we have strong plan we feel we can execute with the cap space? What value will we get back from freeing up the cap space?

[Sedat]

Trade Radio:

"I believe the Saints and Dogs are haggling over that late 40s pick for Jack Macrae. The Dogs are not accepting that for him. It seems like one that will drag on for a while. Also I'm still gutted by that non-free for contact below the knees from Easton Wood in the 2016 GF and the general umpiring overall. How did we not get a single free kick in the 2nd and 3rd quarters? It was daylight robbery and I will never get over it."

- Dan Hannebery on the Jack Macrae deal between the Dogs and the Saints
Edited to include the full transcript.

[Happy Days]

Dan Hannebery of all people should understand the value in trying to grift St Kilda

[comrade]

I'm genuinely not convinced that we WANT to trade Caleb. If he is offered four years by North, and we only have him contracted for two more, that does become a tricky discussion for a great leader on decent money who didn't play that much (16 games with 8 as sub). We love him, but does that make a four year deal the right choice?

Agreed. Are we all happy to extend Caleb another 2 years on top of his current deal? I wouldn?t be and I love the guy and think he?s pound for pound just about the most talented Bulldog ever.

[Sedat]

Agreed. Are we all happy to extend Caleb another 2 years on top of his current deal? I wouldn?t be and I love the guy and think he?s pound for pound just about the most talented Bulldog ever.
If Caleb chooses us for 2 years over North for 4 years, we would love him even more than we already do. And similarly if he chose the 4 year North offer, nobody would begrudge him in the slightest.

Eternal credit to him for finding a way in the last couple of months this season when he looked almost gone mid season. His size and lack of burst pace were being exposed pretty ruthlessly by the oppo players and coaches, but he overcame and endured to become a really good player late in the season. As MJP articulated, it is amazing for a 167cm player who doesn't have quick wheels to carve out such an outstanding long-term career. Where he plays moving forward I don't know for sure - he remains an elite ball user and decision-maker, and he reads the play as well as anyone. Could he run-with against the inside mid types like a Lachie Neale and hurt them the other way?

[GVGjr]

But why does hitting the draft 'HARD' need to mean moving on players who can/are contributing?

I don't know Caleb personally but he has fought for EVERYTHING he has gotten in footy. He was a top 10 (probably top 5) player based on output in his draft year and fell down the order because he's small. He's worn a helmet all his life - in an era when he would have been the ONLY one - because his mum said he had too (and if you think that wouldn't have led to a heap of ridicule AND targeting on field then, well...)...he was (supposedly) overheard telling Bevo he's up to do ANYTHING for the team during the late season game against the Giants...

To me, blokes like this DON'T grow on trees. He's in the leadership group - and he has genuinely led the way in terms of the effort and team first attitude he has displayed.

Was 2024 his best ever season? No. But rule this bloke out at your peril - he is going to find a way...if we trade him, we're gonna regret it.

We've tend to fall back to drafting mainly in rounds 1 and 2 and trading in experienced players and over time that has pushed our age profile up a bit which and this stands out a bit more when you lose players like Dunkley who in his prime and Smith who's best football might still be in front of him. I'm not wanting to move Daniel on but I can see why he might be tempted to accept a 4 year deal from North and why we might not be prepared to match it.
We have been a bit too patient with holding some of the more marginal talented players on the list a year or two more than we probably should have and to me it's a good to take a risk or two more in the drafts in the right years and this seems to be one of those.

[Uninformed]

Our list is good to great. We have plenty of role players, so the only trade should be for elite talent. The only version of that is Houston and we are unlikely there. Can't see it with the others mentioned for us. A few, or even one, elite talent/s from the draft is what we need. Could be forward, mid or back - small to medium.

[chef]

Was mentioned on the news that if we pay some of Macraes wages pick 27 is on the market for him from the Saints

[GVGjr]

Was mentioned on the news that if we pay some of Macraes wages pick 27 is on the market.

Now that might be tempting. It depends on how much though

[GVGjr]

Caleb Daniel is not expected to actively seek a move to North Melbourne unless the Dogs open the door for him to depart. [@CalTwomey]

[Virgin-Dog]

Now that might be tempting. It depends on how much though
Salary cap is a resource just like picks. If we have no other immediate plans for that money, then forking out 200-300k for a couple seasons to get a better pick seems like a no-brainer imo

Sounds like O’Halloran is the only likely pickup (if at all) so outside of front loading large contracts for existing players, it doesn’t seem like we plan on doing much else with the cash. I’d be happy to see us do it

[bulldogtragic]

Caleb Daniel is not expected to actively seek a move to North Melbourne unless the Dogs open the door for him to depart. [@CalTwomey]

Well, that’s up to North to convince us to open it. Sounds like CD will take up the offer if we get a good trade.

17 from BS
25 from CD
& 27 from Jack (with some salary, maybe even 47 to offset some salary)
35 from our hand

That’s a solid draft, plus the something else from BS (ie F1)

[EasternWest]

Was mentioned on the news that if we pay some of Macraes wages pick 27 is on the market for him from the Saints

Finally a use for the Crameri/Hurley warchest.

[jazzadogs]

Finally a use for the Crameri/Hurley warchest.

I think we should blow it all on Owies.

[hujsh]

'Take the punt': Calls for shock rival swoop as draft threat hangs over Dog's delayed deal (https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-trades-news-rumours-2024-geelongs-negotiations-with-western-bulldogs-stall-over-bailey-smith-will-he-get-traded-will-he-go-into-the-draft-what-pick-will-be-traded-reactions-latest-news/news-story/14d47aaa56211fd3a20f671c29fd05e9)

Geelong's negotiations with the Western Bulldogs over Bailey Smith have reportedly hit a hurdle, in a stalling that if left unresolved, could see the star enter the AFL draft in an ultra-rare scenario.

Out of contract and having nominated Kardinia Park as his preferred home in 2025, Smith?s value has being hotly debated by the two clubs - with the Cats allegedly adamant his current value sits at no more than a first-round pick.

Speaking to Fox Footy?s Trading Day on Tuesday night, Jay Clark provided an update on the official stance of each club at the close of day two of the trade period, and why there is such a variation in their starting points for a negotiation.

'The Dogs want more than the Cats? first-round pick for Bailey Smith,' Clark begun by saying.

'That's based on his 2021 form, he's an elite athlete and highly marketable. His football in 2021 was scintillating, but the Cats are on the other side of the trade table.

'They're saying:'We want to give pick 17, and pick 17 only.''

Taken at pick 7 himself in the 2018 AFL draft, Smith is a player with tremendous upside that at his best, is one of the competition's best players.

However, an ACL injury that saw him miss the entire 2024 season has added a layer of uncertainty around his trade value - among other things, says Clark.

'If he went through to the national draft, the natural draft order will dictate that?s where he would go - pick 17, because which of the clubs are going to take the punt on Bailey Smith',' Clark asked.

'There's an elephant in the room here, it hasn't been a perfect start to his AFL career. Yes, there's been the ACL (injury), but also there?s been the mental health issues, which he's been quite open about.'

Given his status as an out-of-contract player, a non-deal between Geelong and Western Bulldogs would almost certainly see Smith re-enter the draft pool at next month's event - risking the possibility of another rival club acquiring his services before the Cats are able to make use of a selection.

And while that seems extremely unlikely given comments today from Geelong GM Andrew Mackie, it has happened before; albeit only a handful of times in the last 15 years.

'We have had a couple of chats with Sam Power (Western Bulldogs list manager); they have been held with good intent from both parties,' Mackie said on Tuesday afternoon.

Clark highly doubts Smith would be poached by a rival club before Geelong's first-round pick this upcoming draft, in what would be an extraordinary risk for any team who dares.

'If he was to fall to the draft, the Cats would get him for nothing at pick 17, because who there on that list is going to take the punt on a bloke they wouldn't even be able to interview''Clark questioned.

'Paul Connors manages him - you wouldn't even be able to get a seat at the table with Bailey Smith (to discuss a shock recruiting).

'The Cats have been working on this for 18 months, so he would go to the Cats in the draft ' it is clear to me that Geelong hold the upper hand.'

Trading Day host Ben Dixon played devil?s advocate however, suggesting that a club like St Kilda could (and should) take the punt in the highly unlikely scenario Smith does enter the draft.

'If I was St Kilda, I?d be taking the punt - and if you?re going into this draft period and you don't want to upset a manger because you?re going to have future dealings with players and it?s going to affect your relationship, you?re in it for the wrong reasons,'Dixon stated.

'They've lost Seb Ross (delisted), they?ve got (Brad) Crouch who hasn't played a lot of games (injured), they?re after (Jack) Macrae - Bailey Smith is sitting on a platter, and you can take him.

In the proposed instance where a trade for Smith cannot be agreed upon, the midfielder would need to essentially delist himself from the Bulldogs in order to be eligible as a player in this year?s draft.

In recent memory, Jackson Hately (2020), Jack Martin (2019), Jed Lamb (2013), Kurt Tippett (2012) and Nick Stevens (2002) stand out as moves via the pre-season draft of a similar nature to that hypothesised of Smith.

[Grantysghost]

Was mentioned on the news that if we pay some of Macraes wages pick 27 is on the market for him from the Saints
Wow we could have a decent draft hand to get some young talent in.
As hard as it is to see Macrae leave that could be a big win win.

[bulldogtragic]

“ the Cats would get him for nothing at pick 17”

Great intellect. A genius…

[angelopetraglia]

Why do all these journos worship at the altar of Geelong? Are they on Nigel Austin?s payroll too?

[Grantysghost]

“ the Cats would get him for nothing at pick 17”

Great intellect. A genius…
I guess he means the Dogs would get nothing.

PSD sounds nice and all but it's pick 17 and whatever else we can scrap together. Lesson: never let a contract expire.

I'm sick of all the talk when it's clear as a day where it's heading.

[hujsh]

I guess he means the Dogs would get nothing.

PSD sounds nice and all but it's pick 17 and whatever else we can scrap together. Lesson: never let a contract expire.

I'm sick of all the talk when it's clear as a day where it's heading.

1st and a pick swap?

[bulldogtragic]

1st and a pick swap?

Swap F1 & F2 and be done with. It’s not that huge a difference.

What they fail to mention is Richmond will have a Freo pick before and Smith would be a decent get in the teens to speed up their rebuild and give them a PR win. Also GWS are wanting to package their term picks up to get a Saints pick, say 8. Saints can use 7, trade 8, use 15 and use 16 on Smith before Geelong have a chance. That’s a huge result - Battle for Pick 15 & BS. Bring in Macrae as a friendly face with Cordy there too.

It’s a huge risk Geelong run. But let them and their surrogates run this tripe.

Sam just needs to sit this one to the last minute. Let the draft order change, as it will, and the chances he makes 17 by the ND are slim to none.

[G-Mo77]

This is why it's called silly season. Neither side has said stuff the other. Power was respectful with his response, Mackie was respectful with his repsonse. They're professionals and will work together and get something done. The way the media talk about these negotiations it makes them sound like they're screaming at each other.

The deal will be done, Geelong's 1st with pick upgrades or F2/F3.

[1eyedog]

If Caleb chooses us for 2 years over North for 4 years, we would love him even more than we already do. And similarly if he chose the 4 year North offer, nobody would begrudge him in the slightest.

Eternal credit to him for finding a way in the last couple of months this season when he looked almost gone mid season. His size and lack of burst pace were being exposed pretty ruthlessly by the oppo players and coaches, but he overcame and endured to become a really good player late in the season. As MJP articulated, it is amazing for a 167cm player who doesn't have quick wheels to carve out such an outstanding long-term career. Where he plays moving forward I don't know for sure - he remains an elite ball user and decision-maker, and he reads the play as well as anyone. Could he run-with against the inside mid types like a Lachie Neale and hurt them the other way?

I'd really miss Caleb. A great club man.

[Grantysghost]

1st and a pick swap?
Sounds right to me.

[Grantysghost]

Swap F1 & F2 and be done with. It’s not that huge a difference.

What they fail to mention is Richmond will have a Freo pick before and Smith would be a decent get in the teens to speed up their rebuild and give them a PR win. Also GWS are wanting to package their term picks up to get a Saints pick, say 8. Saints can use 7, trade 8, use 15 and use 16 on Smith before Geelong have a chance. That’s a huge result - Battle for Pick 15 & BS. Bring in Macrae as a friendly face with Cordy there too.

It’s a huge risk Geelong run. But let them and their surrogates run this tripe.

Sam just needs to sit this one to the last minute. Let the draft order change, as it will, and the chances he makes 17 by the ND are slim to none.
Problem is the player just says I'm not playing for anyone but Geelong.

Clubs won't risk having a disgruntled player on their books.

He's getting to the Cats one way or another.

[bulldogtragic]

Problem is the player just says I'm not playing for anyone but Geelong.

Clubs won't risk having a disgruntled player on their books.

He's getting to the Cats one way or another.

It’s a free market. He can say what he wants. The most certain way to achieve it is to trade. But 17 on its own isn’t going to work. Let’s just see what happens with over a week to go.

[mjp]

Clubs won't risk having a disgruntled player on their books.


Ross Lyon might.

[GVGjr]

I'm really trying my best not to unleash my inner Twodogs thoughts about why we shouldn't fold on trading Bailey Smith. Pick 17 isn't a fair outcome but if Geelong want him they'll need to offer more and some creative suggestions by BT could well be the ones that unlock the deal.

[Grantysghost]

Issue is players nominating teams that have nothing to give us.

The system is awfully broken.

[bornadog]

Ross Lyon might.
Yes he is looking for mids

[bulldogtragic]

I'm really trying my best not to unleash my inner Twodogs about why we shouldn't fold on trading Bailey Smith. Pick 17 isn't a fair outcome but if Geelong want him they'll need to offer more and some creative suggestions by BT could well be the ones that unlock the deal.

On top of Pick 17:

1. F1 for F2

Daylight

2. Swap 48 for 38 & F2


Honestly, the F1/F2 option is still a steal. Two picks likely 20+ for Smith & 35-38. I really think that’s got to be the minimum. Pick 17 alone is not worth it.

[kickit2Koly]

Not sure the draft threat is much of a threat anymore.When was the last time a player went to the draft and didn’t get to their desired club? Nick Stevens is the last I remember and that was 20 years ago.

[Grantysghost]

Ross Lyon might.
The new Trevor Barker?

[Grantysghost]

I'm really trying my best not to unleash my inner Twodogs thoughts about why we shouldn't fold on trading Bailey Smith. Pick 17 isn't a fair outcome but if Geelong want him they'll need to offer more and some creative suggestions by BT could well be the ones that unlock the deal.
G I think I speak for all of us here in the woof family when I say, please unleash! I want a rant of epic proportions. It's not healthy to keep it all bottled up anyway.

[jazzadogs]

I love how it's the "natural draft order", "free market" determining his value...except for the fact that "Paul Connors manages him - you wouldn't even be able to get a seat at the table with Bailey Smith" so it is not a free market at all. It's still the same bulls*** market we've been going to for the past 20 years.

[Mofra]

Not sure the draft threat is much of a threat anymore.When was the last time a player went to the draft and didn?t get to their desired club? Nick Stevens is the last I remember and that was 20 years ago.
There have been players sit-out a season though (e.g. Cam McCarthy) and if Baz was selected by one of Richmond's 500 first round picks, we might find out how much football vs social media means to him.

[ledge]

Can we really complain about the draft rules when we have used them to get JUH , Darcy , Croft , West , Libber . Boyd.
Let’s face it we have done extremely well and our list is pretty healthy due to it.
Smith didn’t play this year and we made finals.
We will do ok in this draft , trust Mr Power.

[mjp]

Honestly, the F1/F2 option is still a steal. Two picks likely 20+ for Smith & 35-38. I really think that?s got to be the minimum. Pick 17 alone is not worth it.

So...what's the solution then?

Get hold of a stick - trade the farm for pick 13 (GC) and just say to Geelong "You reckon no-one will take Bailey Smith before your pick...well, just watch us?".

That's not going to happen.

The commentary around this whole thing really sucks right now:

- "Bailey Smith is out of contract so the Bulldogs have to suck it".

- "Jackson Macrae has 3-years to go but is old and could hardly get a game so the Bulldogs have to suck it".

I know Power isn't listening/influenced by all of the noise but at the same time it would really be nice to have a win here...somehow even the new clubs - EVEN Gold Coast who can't wi - seem more highly thought of than us (or at least get the benefit of sympathy)...

Hating this period more than ever rn.

[mighty_west]

More than happy for Caleb to stay, i'm backing him to get his form back and play a role for us, as for Macrae, tough one, i guess a bit like Daniel is he really a lock best 22 player for us now? I believe Daniel can get back there not sure about Jacko with the likes of Ed, Sanders and co coming into the midfield, so if he isn't in our best 22, i wonder if the club told him to look around or that his game time would be limited in his exit meeting? therefor especially with his juicy contract i'm not sure we can ask the world for him, i'd be exploring a possible swap of say our 3rd for their 2nd round selection.

As for Smith, he's uncontracted therefor our hands are tied somewhat, you hear people say contracts aren't worth the paper they've signed on these days etc however, it gives the player security and the club an advantage in making a deal so unfortunately we are not in that position, i think it was Mark Bickley saying on Trade Radio that Baz is worth closer to pick 10 rather than pick 17 and he's probably about right, so we take their 1st round pick and either their 2nd round or future 2nd or swap our 4th for their 2nd, then try and make those two picks the Suns pick 12 (which is what Baz is possibly worth).

Macrae and pick 47 to Saints, Pick 27 to Dogs (unders? overs?)
Smith and future 4th for Pick 17 and 38 (unders? overs?)

Our draft hand could be (before free agency etc etc) picks 17, 27, 35, 38

Or try to Gain Suns pick 12 for 17 and 27, therefor end up with 12, 35, 38