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The Coon Dog
04-05-2008, 11:08 PM
This just keeps happening. It's not good enough. Last week something similar happened in the Freo v Geelong game & goodness knows how many more times it happens where we don't know it has happened.

Is there a better way of time keeping? A39, is it still reliant upon time keepers visually seeing umpires raise their arm to signal time on/off?

AFL embarrassed over timekeeper mistake (http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/afl-embarrassed-over-timekeeper-mistake/2008/05/04/1209839433121.html)

The AFL admits its timekeepers made an embarrassing and unacceptable mistake which wiped several seconds off the clock late in St Kilda's nail-biting win over Richmond.

Richmond coach Terry Wallace angrily demanded answers from the league over the incident after the Saints won 17.8 (110) to 16.11 (107) at Telstra Dome last night.

With the Tigers trailing by four points, Richmond's Kelvin Moore hit the post with a set shot from 30m with about a minute to play.

The resultant Saints' kick-in was initially called back and had to be retaken, but the time clock was allowed to run while that was happening, Wallace believing about 14 seconds was lost.

Richmond then won the ball in midfield and worked it back to youngster Jack Riewoldt, who had a set shot from just outside 50m after the siren, which failed to make the distance.

AFL football operations manager Adrian Anderson today conceded the time was lost as a result of human error, with the two timekeepers failing to notice the umpire's signal to stop the clock.

"We've spoken to the timekeepers involved and they're unable to explain it other than obviously being very apologetic," Anderson told Melbourne radio 3AW.

"They are unable to explain how they made this mistake.

"They've got a good viewing position, particularly at the MCG and Telstra Dome and when the umpire calls time-on they stop the clock and it didn't happen in this case."

Wallace said last night the AFL needed to be held to account, given fines were regularly dished out to clubs over various infringements.

"We are playing a super-professional sport here, it cannot be making mistakes like that," Wallace said.

"Can we have a fining system? Can we go to the AFL and fine them if they want to fine us?

"We've probably had someone step over the line or do the wrong thing on the interchange and we'll get slapped with a please explain why.

"Well, who explains to us?"

Anderson said he could fully understand Wallace's anger.

"We share that frustration and we have to work via the umpiring department to make sure everything's done to make sure it doesn't happen again," he said.

"From time to time we are going to have human error, but we certainly want to minimise that and as far as we're concerned an error has happened which is unacceptable and we're as frustrated as anybody about it."

Anderson said the timekeepers responsible would be dealt with by the umpiring department, which oversees their role, and would have harmed their chances of selection for future matches.

"We just have to make sure via the umpiring department we make sure we've got the right people in those roles," he said.

Dry Rot
04-05-2008, 11:39 PM
When exactly is time called off, and on?

ledge
04-05-2008, 11:53 PM
When the umpire whistles and tells them too.

Dry Rot
04-05-2008, 11:58 PM
When the umpire whistles and tells them too.

Fine, and technically when should he do that?

The Coon Dog
05-05-2008, 12:05 AM
Fine, and technically when should he do that?


When play 'stops', such as when a team scores, when the ball goes out of bounds, when the field umpire signals for a ball up & then it starts back on when he has bounced it.

There can be all sorts of other instances when time off is signalled, ie injury, wrong player taken kick, player assumes advantage & plays on but field umpire believes no advantage etc...

These stoppages all rely upon the field umpire raising one hand above his head to signal to the time keepers. This is all dependent upon the time keepers seeing & acting upon the signal.

Dry Rot
05-05-2008, 12:09 AM
Thanks.

IIRC today the clock kept running while a blood rule was sorted out. Ditto a few times when there was a ball up.

westdog54
05-05-2008, 03:08 AM
I'm stunned that the AFL have not been more proactive on this and other matters in relation to communication between officials. Ok, maybe not stunned, but pretty disappointed. TCD is dead right, as is Wallace (I shivered as I typed that:D). Its simply not good enough.

I always relate this back to NRL officials being miked up. When it was introduced it had absoultely nothing whatsoever to do with broadcasting. It was an NRL initiative to allow the referee to communicate with his touch judges and vice-versa. Channel 9 latched onto the idea of having the commentators listen in and it went from there.

If the timekeepers had an earpiece that was linked up to the umpires' microphones, all they'd have to do was listen for the words "Time-off/Time-on".

If anything the umpires should all have earpieces as well so that they don't have to run from one end of the ground to the other to clarify a decision.

LostDoggy
05-05-2008, 07:58 AM
It not something new. These simple mistakes have possibly been happening since timekeepers were introduced.
Its this weeks spin by Terry Wallace for losing another game they should have won.

Desipura
05-05-2008, 08:07 AM
When play 'stops', such as when a team scores, when the ball goes out of bounds, when the field umpire signals for a ball up & then it starts back on when he has bounced it.

There can be all sorts of other instances when time off is signalled, ie injury, wrong player taken kick, player assumes advantage & plays on but field umpire believes no advantage etc...

These stoppages all rely upon the field umpire raising one hand above his head to signal to the time keepers. This is all dependent upon the time keepers seeing & acting upon the signal.
"Oh so happy I am........ oh ok back on the topic" I used to see the umpire signal for a ball up as he is about to bounce the ball the players would mill around where he is about to bounce it. The ump would then tell all the players to clear the area so he could bounce it. During this time the ump has not called time on and as a result some 35 seconds has passed by. I'm sure clubs used this as a tactic in the past.

ledge
05-05-2008, 09:59 AM
It not something new. These simple mistakes have possibly been happening since timekeepers were introduced.
Its this weeks spin by Terry Wallace for losing another game they should have won.

Completely agree, Richmond had 3 chances to win in the last 3 mins, how many does he want, he should be looking at the woeful kicking at goal that lost him the game.
Time keeping is not in his control , worry about what he can control, although he has had so many years at the helm now maybe he has no control over his sides kicking.
Your mum could have kicked one of those goals while cooking her spag sauce it was that easy.
I bet if they were in Saints position he wouldnt have said a word!

Sockeye Salmon
05-05-2008, 01:01 PM
Don't let anyone have access to that annoying countdown clock and the problem goes away.

LostDoggy
05-05-2008, 02:28 PM
Don't let anyone have access to that annoying countdown clock and the problem goes away.

Right.
I doubt they could ever make this an exact science sort of thing.
Seconds are lost all the time.
eg. Umps call for time on too late often.

aker39
05-05-2008, 02:33 PM
If anything the umpires should all have earpieces as well so that they don't have to run from one end of the ground to the other to clarify a decision.


They do already, and have done so since the start of last year.

In relation to a field bounce, the rule was changed a couple of years ago, so that as soon as the umpire signals for a bounce, the clock stops, and re commences when it is bounced.

I can understand the time keeper making the mistake last week in the Freo game. He would have been looking at the player who played on after the ball went out of bounds on the full. But the umpire 40m away, called play back, as the wrong player took the kick. I don't think the 8 seconds lost was a major problem.

On Saturday night, the time keeper was clearly at fault. The player bringing the ball back in was called back by the umpire. The umpire has his hand in the air calling time on, and he leaves his hand in the air for a long time. (I'm assuming an instruction after the previous weeks mistake). How the timekeeper didn't see it, I don't know. I saw watching it from my lounge room at home.

DOG GOD
05-05-2008, 03:10 PM
Surely the timekeepers have to be held accountable for this error with a fine or suspension. The game is full on professional yet all these little things keep being a problem. It really isnt good enough for AFL standard.

God help if this happened in a grand final.

LostDoggy
05-05-2008, 04:23 PM
God help if this happened in a grand final.

I'm sure it has.
100+ GF and not one timekeeping error where seconds were lost? I doubt it.
In the end its pretty petty really. It can go either way.
Yes fix the mistakes but its never going to be foolproof.