Ok, now I'm starting to believe...

[westdog54]

I know I'm being a tad premature when I say this, and I know that there's a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go, but not even in '98 did I feel this much optimism at this stage of the season.

After the StKilda game I said that if we were 6 and zip after we played West Coast I'd get excited. That was before it turned out that West Coast are rubbish without Judd and Cousins.

Now that we're 6 and a half after a win on the road against a team that by rights could call us their 'bitches' over the last few years, its hard not to walk around with a smile on your face at the moment.

I know we've got a lot of work to do to catch Hawthorn and Geelong, but against Sydney we showed that we will not be ignored, nor taken lightly this season.

[1eyedog]

Yes agreed, it's a very nice feeling, kinda like being in love all over again.

[1eyedog]

The media is on us like ants on candy

[LostDoggy]

I am trying to remember that there is a long way to go yet, but each week I it is becoming a bit harder. If we continue to improve, who knows what we could do in the finals this year. But at the moment it is to early to tell.

[Big Dog]

A fit and firing West and Ray will definetely bolster our midfield stock (with fingers crossed we wont sustain too many more injuries) in the coming weeks

Plus there are a couple of fringe players who i'm hoping will be playing their hearts out to Williamstown over the next couple of weeks (Harbrow, Williams, Everitt)....plus some youthful depth in Ward and O'Keefe....

Providing we can maintain their concentration, aggression, attack on the ball and run, then hopefully we should have a very successful H&A season...

"It might not be our year, but it just might be our premiership" ;-)

[Twodogs]

Scary, aint it?


Yesterday was a huge test for us. I was keeping my powder dry until we'd played a side that always troubled with and beat them on their own terms. Closing the game up at the end, locking the ball, forcing contest after contest and backing ourselves to win against Sydney has got me thinking all sorts of things.



Looks like I picked the wrong season to quit sniffing glue-things are only going to get more intense each week.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

It is very exciting and I hope that the club can get a heap of milage out of it and get the membership up and going.

what are the thoughts out their to get a few more wanting to sign up,

The prospects of getting Grand Final tickets?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Scary, aint it?


Yesterday was a huge test for us. I was keeping my powder dry until we'd played a side that always troubled with and beat them on their own terms. Closing the game up at the end, locking the ball, forcing contest after contest and backing ourselves to win against Sydney has got me thinking all sorts of things.



Looks like I picked the wrong season to quit sniffing glue-things are only going to get more intense each week.

Have you ever seen a grown man naked?

[Mantis]

Scary, aint it?

Yesterday was a huge test for us. I was keeping my powder dry until we'd played a side that always troubled with and beat them on their own terms. Closing the game up at the end, locking the ball, forcing contest after contest and backing ourselves to win against Sydney has got me thinking all sorts of things.

Looks like I picked the wrong season to quit sniffing glue-things are only going to get more intense each week.

But they were ripe for the picking yesterday, with no Hall in the team we had no excuses.

Yes Sydney are a good team, but they aren't the team they were 2 or 3 years ago. And yes we had to prove to ourselves that we could match it and beat a team who play a foreign style, but realistically Sydney will not challenge for the flag this year.

Our real challenges will come over the next few months, if we can answer them as well we may let ourselves to become a little excited.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Mantis, we could also say that we had players missing. i think that brian Lake is a good matchup for Hall and their would have been no change in result.

Yes fully agree with the challenges of the up coming month but IMO the side looks more confident and a hardness that I haven't seen since the days of Romero, Libba, Dima and Smith.

Bring them on I'm sure we will win more than we lose.

[LostDoggy]

Our real challenges will come over the next few months, if we can answer them as well we may let ourselves to become a little excited.

Spot on.

In the next 5 or so weeks we have 3 away games and a game against North.

Of those 3 away games 2 of them are against real contenders, Port and Hawks.

North have had the wood on us of recent times and it will be very interesting to see how we respond to yet another game of hard in contested footy.

If we come oot of this block in good form, then I will get excited, possibely sniff some glue with 2 Dogs....:cool:

[Mantis]

Mantis, we could also say that we had players missing. i think that brian Lake is a good matchup for Hall and their would have been no change in result.

Hall always gives us trouble, Lake has certainly improved, but Hall is an extremely important player for Sydney. Yes West was missing and he is still a good player, but less important than he was a couple of years ago.


Yes fully agree with the challenges of the up coming month but IMO the side looks more confident and a hardness that I haven't seen since the days of Romero, Libba, Dima and Smith.


Don't make me laugh.

[LostDoggy]

Don't make me laugh.

Dimma was hard at it, maybe not great in the skills department but never took a backward step

Smith I agree.

[Twodogs]

Bugger the calm rational approach. It's sooner than you think boys.


I understand that we all want to keep a lid on expectations and we dont want to get ahead of ourselves but this start has been almost perfect. I go to a lot of preseason training and the build up went better than it has since Wallace's days. The increased size of the players was very noticible and the players adapted to the more physical and patient gameplan pretty quickly. I saw them do what they did at the end of the game a heap of times a lot in January, febuary and march and I've been hanging out to see if they could choke a side effectivly. Yesterday we did and I'm big Kev excited about it.


I could also write a thousand words on how important it is that Hahn and Murphy play two contrasting styles in the forward line that are both mega important, how Will Minson is playing the role he was born for and why Tim Callan and Cam Wight are essential to our chances but it's time for bed.

[FrediKanoute]

I think we are good. An unbeaten start to the season is fantastic.

BUT - I don't think we are quite as good as the Hawks or the Cats. I think they are still the yardsticks this season so for us to win a flag we need to be better than them.

[LostDoggy]

This season still seems not real to me.
Im super happy with the start, though i dont think we are as good as 6-1-0.
I think we have been a little lucky with the first 6 games in melbourne.
Although the win over Sydney did give me alot more confidence.

Im already personally expecting the bulldogs to win which i think is not a good mind set to get into this early, as if we/when we do lose ill be pissed off and write us off right away.

Fremantle next round, better win :P
Cooney/Griffen better not get hurt in V vs DTeam.

[Twodogs]

I think we are good. An unbeaten start to the season is fantastic.

BUT - I don't think we are quite as good as the Hawks or the Cats. I think they are still the yardsticks this season so for us to win a flag we need to be better than them.



Again I see that bottle as half full.


I reckon neither Hawthorn or Geelong hold as many terrors for us as say a Sydney or an Adelaide in a final. If there have to be dominant teams ity might as well be ones we have a good recent record against.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Hall always gives us trouble, Lake has certainly improved, but Hall is an extremely important player for Sydney. Yes West was missing and he is still a good player, but less important than he was a couple of years ago.



Don't make me laugh.

Come on Mantis, when we had these guys running around side hated playing us as they knew they where in for a bugger of a day.

I know the game has changed but you cant tell me that the hairs on your neck didn't rise when they targeted a player (eg; a young ben cousins) before the ball was bounced.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Again I see that bottle as half full.


I reckon neither Hawthorn or Geelong hold as many terrors for us as say a Sydney or an Adelaide in a final. If there have to be dominant teams ity might as well be ones we have a good recent record against.


Believing is everything and we have ample of that at this time. I think that we have matched up with the cats and hawks better than swans and crows of late.

[bold-dogg]

I thought Sydney threw everything at us, and they are contenders. Dogs were committed, hard, ran straight at them, and some deity guided the ball through the sticks.
We copped Richmond and Essendon as good as they'll play all year, beat St Kilda fair and square.
The luck of the good early draw (and good pre-season) helps us ease into the season, get the game plan up, and confidence right.
It looks like even ye gods are smiling.
How good is Cooney?

[GVGjr]

I thought Sydney threw everything at us, and they are contenders. Dogs were committed, hard, ran straight at them, and some deity guided the ball through the sticks.
We copped Richmond and Essendon as good as they'll play all year, beat St Kilda fair and square.
The luck of the good early draw (and good pre-season) helps us ease into the season, get the game plan up, and confidence right.
It looks like even ye gods are smiling.
How good is Cooney?

It was our best result even considering the comeback against the Saints

[1eyedog]

We just have to find a way to beat Franklin and Roughead and we're right up there.

Lake and Williams:cool:

[LostDoggy]

We are a far better team than the Hawks. They are much flashier, with their shiny, fashionable forward line, but our midfield more than matches theirs, our forwardline actually has a far better scoring and conversion rate, and the depth of our team is quite telling -- Hawthorn have already played three rookies this year and are stretched thin, Dogs have four second/third year players coming back from injury that are no shoo-in for the side, who would be a walk-up start any other season and in most other teams.

I do think the lid has to be kept on, if only for a more steady, even development morale-wise, but the lid coming off Hawthorn is just ridiculous -- they have NOT proven a single thing yet. Beating Collingwood is no great feat. This Dogs team already did it comprehensively in a FINAL two years ago and it was merely a step in our long-term development.

I seriously don't think the Hawks will make the top 4 this year. There will be a significant fall-off for a lot of their younger players, and injuries will test their depth.. 22 weeks is a long time, and two middling/trigger-happy forwards does not a team make.

[The Underdog]

This win certainly felt significant. Although it is only a home and away win, it seemed to signify a coming of age. We are well on our way to being a top 4 side. We still have some deficiencies, but our midfield and forward line are pretty damn good.

[LostDoggy]

We are a far better team than the Hawks. They are much flashier, with their shiny, fashionable forward line, but our midfield more than matches theirs, our forwardline actually has a far better scoring and conversion rate, and the depth of our team is quite telling -- Hawthorn have already played three rookies this year and are stretched thin, Dogs have four second/third year players coming back from injury that are no shoo-in for the side, who would be a walk-up start any other season and in most other teams.

I do think the lid has to be kept on, if only for a more steady, even development morale-wise, but the lid coming off Hawthorn is just ridiculous -- they have NOT proven a single thing yet. Beating Collingwood is no great feat. This Dogs team already did it comprehensively in a FINAL two years ago and it was merely a step in our long-term development.

I seriously don't think the Hawks will make the top 4 this year. There will be a significant fall-off for a lot of their younger players, and injuries will test their depth.. 22 weeks is a long time, and two middling/trigger-happy forwards does not a team make.

I think that you are right and that is why I am looking forward to round 10, we will finnaly have a chance to peove that we may just be contenders.

[westdog54]

We are a far better team than the Hawks. They are much flashier, with their shiny, fashionable forward line, but our midfield more than matches theirs, our forwardline actually has a far better scoring and conversion rate, and the depth of our team is quite telling -- Hawthorn have already played three rookies this year and are stretched thin, Dogs have four second/third year players coming back from injury that are no shoo-in for the side, who would be a walk-up start any other season and in most other teams.

I do think the lid has to be kept on, if only for a more steady, even development morale-wise, but the lid coming off Hawthorn is just ridiculous -- they have NOT proven a single thing yet. Beating Collingwood is no great feat. This Dogs team already did it comprehensively in a FINAL two years ago and it was merely a step in our long-term development.

I seriously don't think the Hawks will make the top 4 this year. There will be a significant fall-off for a lot of their younger players, and injuries will test their depth.. 22 weeks is a long time, and two middling/trigger-happy forwards does not a team make.

I think that my dad summed Hawthorn up well. They're only 1 injury away from being just another ordinary team. You get 3 guesses at which injury we're referring to.

[bornadog]

Just because we had a slip-up against Richmond and dropped the 2 points. .

Still fuming over that one. Should have put them away in the first quarter when we kicked 4.10.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

If any side suffers a couple of injuries to key players, it'll effect the entire side - whether it be us, Geelong, Hawthorn or any other team.

Give credit where its due; the Hawks look super impressive. I'd argue their depth is probably better than ours, especially up forward & in the midfield. Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis, Sewell & Crawford are all very good midfielders that have a combination of strength/aggression & skill. Osborne, Ladson & a couple of their other players provide good back-up too. Tuck hasn't cracked too many games, but he's waiting in the wings too.

Their forward half is pretty hard to stop. Franklin is - at the moment - the best player in the competition and next to impossible to match-up on. Averaging 9 shots on goal a game, that's amazing. Roughead has been really good for the Hawks this year too, he's kicked bags of goals in the last two weeks when Franklin wasn't dominating. He's got a strong pair of hands and busts packs. The combination of these two is far superior to any other FF/CHF combination in the league at the moment. That's saying something. Bradshaw/Brown, Kozzi/Riewoldt aren't bad. It doesn't end there though, because they've got Williams & Rioli who have improved the setup considerably. Both capable crumbers & apply defensive pressure, both intelligent & know where to position themselves, both kick goals & Williams is about as accurate as they come.

Thorp's a young gun that can't get a game in that forward line ATM. More than likely, he'd get one in ours.

They aren't 'unbeatable' because their back half is suspect and the true test will come when they play against us, Geelong, Port Adelaide & Sydney. However, their midfield & forward line is very dangerous and generally, it's pretty difficult to stop all of them from having a big influence on a match.

Geelong is the interesting one; they've shown some signs of weakness in the past few weeks. Sydney had their measure for three quarters, as did Brisbane, and they were lucky to escape with a victory against Fremantle. IMO it's closer than the media tends to think. Seem to either be backing Geelong or Hawthorn all the way, but along with us & Sydney, there's weaknesses to be exploited and I reckon it's just going to come down to 'on the day'.

[Twodogs]

Give credit where its due; the Hawks look super impressive. I'd argue their depth is probably better than ours, especially up forward & in the midfield. Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis, Sewell & Crawford are all very good midfielders that have a combination of strength/aggression & skill. Osborne, Ladson & a couple of their other players provide good back-up too. Tuck hasn't cracked too many games, but he's waiting in the wings too.


While they are all the things you say, tough, aggressive and skilful, they are also one paced. I reckon our plan would be to run them off their feet and then close them down when the game turns in their favour. Same thing we did to Sydney. In fact, in terms of leg speed and age there isnt a lot of difference between Sydney's onballers and Hawthorns. Maybe the Hawks have the Swannies shaded in terms of skills by hand and foot but that's not much good to them if their opponents are 20 metres away with the ball under their arm.

[LostDoggy]

If any side suffers a couple of injuries to key players, it'll effect the entire side - whether it be us, Geelong, Hawthorn or any other team.

Give credit where its due; the Hawks look super impressive. I'd argue their depth is probably better than ours, especially up forward & in the midfield. Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis, Sewell & Crawford are all very good midfielders that have a combination of strength/aggression & skill. Osborne, Ladson & a couple of their other players provide good back-up too. Tuck hasn't cracked too many games, but he's waiting in the wings too.

Their forward half is pretty hard to stop. Franklin is - at the moment - the best player in the competition and next to impossible to match-up on. Averaging 9 shots on goal a game, that's amazing. Roughead has been really good for the Hawks this year too, he's kicked bags of goals in the last two weeks when Franklin wasn't dominating. He's got a strong pair of hands and busts packs. The combination of these two is far superior to any other FF/CHF combination in the league at the moment. That's saying something. Bradshaw/Brown, Kozzi/Riewoldt aren't bad. It doesn't end there though, because they've got Williams & Rioli who have improved the setup considerably. Both capable crumbers & apply defensive pressure, both intelligent & know where to position themselves, both kick goals & Williams is about as accurate as they come.

Thorp's a young gun that can't get a game in that forward line ATM. More than likely, he'd get one in ours.

They aren't 'unbeatable' because their back half is suspect and the true test will come when they play against us, Geelong, Port Adelaide & Sydney. However, their midfield & forward line is very dangerous and generally, it's pretty difficult to stop all of them from having a big influence on a match.

Geelong is the interesting one; they've shown some signs of weakness in the past few weeks. Sydney had their measure for three quarters, as did Brisbane, and they were lucky to escape with a victory against Fremantle. IMO it's closer than the media tends to think. Seem to either be backing Geelong or Hawthorn all the way, but along with us & Sydney, there's weaknesses to be exploited and I reckon it's just going to come down to 'on the day'.


No doubt they LOOK pretty impressive, but this league flatters to deceive. Plenty of teams look impressive (Adelaide 2006, Saints here and there, even Melbourne 2005/2006) when they are in form and winning, but that's a mile away from actually being genuine up-and-at-em contenders.

Their game plan is built around a clogged corridor and a flashy, inefficient forwardline (I will maintain it's more flash than substance still, even though I really rate Williams and Roughie, and Rioli's tackling is impressive). That Clarkson is from the Mark William's (the coach) school of coaching tells me that their style is more suited to home/away games than cut-throat finals.

Of course injuries will affect any side -- that's the nature of injuries -- but this is a side that will lose half its aura just by the injury of ONE person. That's not depth. (although, I will argue that Luke Hodge's injury is pretty significant. He is the other player they are least able to cover the absence of. Without him the midfield becomes just an honest, skillful one rather than a game-breaking one).

ps. averaging 9 shots a game on goal but kicking bags of behinds is very impressive, but not very effective. He will not get 9 shots on goal in many finals. Mark Williams (the forward) will kick 7 goals if he gets 9 shots on goal. Heck, if Mitch Hahn went ahead and blazed away everytime he got the ball in the forwardline he would kick 5 behinds a match.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

While they are all the things you say, tough, aggressive and skilful, they are also one paced. I reckon our plan would be to run them off their feet and then close them down when the game turns in their favour. Same thing we did to Sydney. In fact, in terms of leg speed and age there isnt a lot of difference between Sydney's onballers and Hawthorns. Maybe the Hawks have the Swannies shaded in terms of skills by hand and foot but that's not much good to them if their opponents are 20 metres away with the ball under their arm.

Good point, I missed that one, and that's certainly an area that a couple of sides will be able to test them out on. Players like Ablett & Cooney will really stretch them. Geelong aren't super fast either though, and they dominated last year, so whilst pace is important and game breaking it's been proven to be done without. (See Sydney, too).


Their game plan is built around a clogged corridor and a flashy, inefficient forwardline (I will maintain it's more flash than substance still, even though I really rate Williams and Roughie, and Rioli's tackling is impressive). That Clarkson is from the Mark William's (the coach) school of coaching tells me that their style is more suited to home/away games than cut-throat finals.

Of course injuries will affect any side -- that's the nature of injuries -- but this is a side that will lose half its aura just by the injury of ONE person. That's not depth. (although, I will argue that Luke Hodge's injury is pretty significant. He is the other player they are least able to cover the absence of. Without him the midfield becomes just an honest, skillful one rather than a game-breaking one).

ps. averaging 9 shots a game on goal but kicking bags of behinds is very impressive, but not very effective. He will not get 9 shots on goal in many finals. Mark Williams (the forward) will kick 7 goals if he gets 9 shots on goal. Heck, if Mitch Hahn went ahead and blazed away everytime he got the ball in the forwardline he would kick 5 behinds a match.

Not sure I agree with you on their forward line being purely flashy. Franklin is, sure - but he pulls it off because he's a genuine match winner. Even in matches whereby he hasn't been dominant, he's still managed four goals. Roughead & Rioli really complete their setup though because they add something different. Roughead isn't 'silky' and 'flashy' like Franklin, but he provides contests and is a big presence with strong hands. He's fallen under the radar multiple times this year because all the attention is diverted to Buddy. Rioli as you said tackles well & feeds off the KPF's well. Williams is the small/medium forward that can do a bit of everything. The point is - your defense has to be pretty solid to cover them. Geelong has a super backline and they'll make it hard. Ours? I'm not convinced, at the moment.

I think our midfield could really damage them though. Good mix of strength & pace, and we have plenty of winners up forward. In a Hawks v Dogs game, IMO it's which backline holds out the best because both aren't the strongest in the league.

[Mantis]

Geelong is the interesting one; they've shown some signs of weakness in the past few weeks. Sydney had their measure for three quarters, as did Brisbane, and they were lucky to escape with a victory against Fremantle. IMO it's closer than the media tends to think. Seem to either be backing Geelong or Hawthorn all the way, but along with us & Sydney, there's weaknesses to be exploited and I reckon it's just going to come down to 'on the day'.

They are missing there no 1 ruckman and there CHB. They are still the team to beat.

[Sockeye Salmon]

If any side suffers a couple of injuries to key players, it'll effect the entire side - whether it be us, Geelong, Hawthorn or any other team.

Give credit where its due; the Hawks look super impressive.are all very good midfielders that have a combination of strength/aggression & skill. Osbo I'd argue their depth is probably better than ours, especially up forward & in the midfield. Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis, Sewell & Crawford rne, Ladson & a couple of their other players provide good back-up too. Tuck hasn't cracked too many games, but he's waiting in the wings too.


I'd say midfield depth is their problem. No-one has 2 wingmen, a centre and 2 on-ballers anymore, everyone has 14 midfielders. Their starting 5 is good but when they have a rest they can stuggle.


Their forward line is unbelievable, though, and we don't have a hope in hell of keeping them under 18 goals.

We just have to kick 19...
...and we can.

[Mantis]

Yes, round 16 is a long way off, but if things keep going the way they have, we will have a real opportunity to knock them off their pedestal. They have to play Hawthorn the following week and it could really change the shape of the top 4 and give us a huge confidence booster going into the finals.
At the moment all the stats point to our score power being better than Geelongs. Which means they will have to take us on at OUR game.

SS was talking about Hawthorn.

[Sockeye Salmon]

SS was talking about Hawthorn.

Yes, I was.


Geelong are only firing on 3 cylinders ATM but still managing to get the job done.

We don't play them for so long whatever's happened this year to date isn't really relevant yet.

[ledge]

Yes, I was.


Geelong are only firing on 3 cylinders ATM but still managing to get the job done.

We don't play them for so long whatever's happened this year to date isn't really relevant yet.

A couple of games i think we have only fired on 3 cylinders and got through also, good sides find a way to win.
Hawks worry me because if they bomb it into there forward line we wont stop them,do we play the Sydney game and try and bottle it up or do we try and shoot em out?
Even if we try and bottle it up i think there forwards would still outmark us enough to keep the scoreboard ticking over.
They are a very scary side, i cannot see an obvious weakness.
Tell you the truth Hawks and Cats i dont mind if they beat us in home and away , but when finals come?
Both sides will be hard to beat once in a season let alone twice.
Let them play us in finals with that air of confidence..oh we beat them last time.

[LostDoggy]

It's only round 7. I think Geelong's performance last year has us all thinking that form is sustainable for 22 rounds plus finals, but I really do think that it was a one-off year from an exceptional team (that only started firing after Round 5, if we all remember). If another team is capable of matching that season, it would be Geelong again. Hawthorn are not doing anything that we didn't do in '97, Adelaide did in '06, and Melbourne did in '05. All these teams were pronounced champions elect in Round 10, 18 and 21 (or thereabouts) and neither of these teams actually went on to even make the GF. Like I previously mentioned, teams in form always look impressive, but there's a world of difference between being impressive and winning the whole deal. If they make the finals, the Kangaroos, Sydney and Port are all capable of beating the Hawks on their day. Not to mention two other unbeaten teams.

[westdog54]

A couple of games i think we have only fired on 3 cylinders and got through also, good sides find a way to win.
Hawks worry me because if they bomb it into there forward line we wont stop them,do we play the Sydney game and try and bottle it up or do we try and shoot em out?
Even if we try and bottle it up i think there forwards would still outmark us enough to keep the scoreboard ticking over.
They are a very scary side, i cannot see an obvious weakness.
Tell you the truth Hawks and Cats i dont mind if they beat us in home and away , but when finals come?
Both sides will be hard to beat once in a season let alone twice.
Let them play us in finals with that air of confidence..oh we beat them last time.

Good post ledge.

The funny thing about a forward line like Hawthorn's is that its so complete, it would be nigh on impossible to effectively shut them down.

Look at Adelaide in last year's finals. They're one of the toughest, most defensive sides in the league yet they allowed Franklin 7 goals. And at the death they failed even to fill the holes to allow him the lead, despite having virtually every player on the ground in front of the ball. A lapse? Possibly, but it shows the smarts and ability Buddy has.

For mine a shoot-out looms.

[ledge]

I remember a Jarman doing it to us 10 years ago in a final, just couldnt stop him.

[LostDoggy]

Not sure I agree with you on their forward line being purely flashy. Franklin is, sure - but he pulls it off because he's a genuine match winner. Even in matches whereby he hasn't been dominant, he's still managed four goals. Roughead & Rioli really complete their setup though because they add something different. Roughead isn't 'silky' and 'flashy' like Franklin, but he provides contests and is a big presence with strong hands. He's fallen under the radar multiple times this year because all the attention is diverted to Buddy. Rioli as you said tackles well & feeds off the KPF's well. Williams is the small/medium forward that can do a bit of everything.

I didn't say PURELY flashy, but I still maintain it's more style than substance at the moment. Buddy is definitely a matchwinner, but only if he gets a lot of shots at it. Some other matchwinners like our own Aker only need three or four opportunities to shut a game down or turn a match. My point is that if Buddy is shut down he will have negligible impact on the game. He is the kind of player that needs to play a whole game to influence it.

Roughie is a great mark and kick, but he is thriving on the fact that so much attention is on Buddy. If Buddy gets injured (as many have pointed out) their entire forward structure falls apart because they don't really score from any other avenues -- Buddy, Roughead and Williams kicks a huge percentage of their goals on a weekly basis. This tells me that if you shut them down you don't really have to worry about the rest of the team being able to tear you apart, unlike Geelong with Ablett and Bartel and Corey who can score heavily, and the Dogs with Coons and Griff and Gilbee and Eagle and Aker who don't have to play in the forwardline to score.

-- Point is, over the stretch of a 22 week season, teams work out how to play you. Hawthorn isn't that hard to work out, just hard to shut down (so far), but teams will figure it out.

No question, we'll be better off playing tight. Hawthorn love a shoot-out.

[Sedat]

Look at Adelaide in last year's finals. They're one of the toughest, most defensive sides in the league yet they allowed Franklin 7 goals. And at the death they failed even to fill the holes to allow him the lead, despite having virtually every player on the ground in front of the ball. A lapse? Possibly, but it shows the smarts and ability Buddy has.
They wouldn't have had to worry about clogging up the space for Franklin had Scott Thompson not gifted the ball back to Hawthorn by kicking it OOB on half-back with 20 seconds to go. Adelaide mids would have rightfully expected to retain possession for the last 20 seconds and were probably caught out of position after that errant kick as a result. Franklin kicking 6 goals and Adelaide winning would have been just what the doctor ordered for Neil Craig. Remember that Franklin kicked 6 goals against us early last season at the MCG but his side lost comfortably. What makes Hawthorn so strong this season is that they have Roughead chipping in for 3-5 a week and now Mark Williams lace out on the lead with 3-5 a week as well. Buddy only needs to turn up for half a game because the load is being shared.

[westdog54]

They wouldn't have had to worry about clogging up the space for Franklin had Scott Thompson not gifted the ball back to Hawthorn by kicking it OOB on half-back with 20 seconds to go. Adelaide mids would have rightfully expected to retain possession for the last 20 seconds and were probably caught out of position after that errant kick as a result. Franklin kicking 6 goals and Adelaide winning would have been just what the doctor ordered for Neil Craig. Remember that Franklin kicked 6 goals against us early last season at the MCG but his side lost comfortably. What makes Hawthorn so strong this season is that they have Roughead chipping in for 3-5 a week and now Mark Williams lace out on the lead with 3-5 a week as well. Buddy only needs to turn up for half a game because the load is being shared.

They may have been caught out of position but Crawford kicked it in to another player which would have given the supposedly well drilled Adelaide unit plenty of time to form up.

Roughead and Williams may kick 3-5 a week but as far as I'm concerned its only a very weak defence/midfield that will allow that to happen. I think we're better than that.

[hujsh]

What of their defence?

If we break even in inside 50's we could win