Wight v Williams [Archive] - Whitten Oval Online Forum

Dry Rot

08-05-2008, 02:51 PM

Is it fair to say that when Williams rejoins the team, he will displace Wight?

Is that just automatic when Williams is considered fit, or will he have to earn his place?

Wight seems to be slowly improving, staying free of injuries and on balance deserves his place and has proven this, this year.

Williams seems to be all amazing potential, but nothing really proven so far. Has he ever ripped open a VFL game? Should he have to show some consistent good form to displace Wight who appears to be playing as well as his limits allow in a winning team?

Mantis

08-05-2008, 03:32 PM

I just don't think it is Wight who is or should be looking over his shoulders. At present there would be atleast one other mid/ tallish defender who would go before Wight.

The Bulldogs Bite

08-05-2008, 03:37 PM

Williams will be made to earn his spot back into the lineup, IMHO.

As you said, he's got a lot of potential, but he really hasn't proven anything at either level yet. I think it's important for him to play some games of football in the VFL and find some form before being thrown back into the 'deep end'. He's inexperienced and has a lot to learn - plus he's coming off another long layoff, so for mine it only makes sense for Williams' return to the senior side to be a gradual step-by-step process.

Wight's been a handy contributor, too. He still makes a few mistakes during games, but he's continuing to improve and is quite easily holding his spot in the side at the moment. He's versatile, too; been able to play down back when needed and do a satisfactory job basically every week, had stints in the ruck & played up forward. The pleasing thing is that Wight gives a 110% and it shows through his aggression and intensity for the game. He's actually OK when the ball hits the ground because he fights for it. The most encouraging thing though has been his confidence to actually run off his opponents and make them chase, often ending up having shots for goal. He probably could've and should've kicked a few more, but he's still managing this most weeks.

In a side that's won six and drawn one, why make the change? If Williams was an established CHB then there's merit. At the moment though, and certainly at THIS point in time, Wight's actually ahead of Williams in development and gives us a bit more. of course that could change over the coming weeks once Tommy begins to play some football again, but Wight deserves to be rewarded for his good effort just as much as Williams should be made to earn his stripes back.

Twodogs

08-05-2008, 05:38 PM

Wight's tough and instinctvely puts his head over the ball and always goes when it's his turn. That's a priceless quality in a footballer.

GVGjr

08-05-2008, 06:01 PM

Wight's tough and instinctvely puts his head over the ball and always goes when it's his turn. That's a priceless quality in a footballer.

Esranit, Bornadog and I were discussing that very point last night. Even if Williams does force his way into the side there is no reason why Wight wouldn't be used as a forward or in a role coming off the bench.

LostDoggy

08-05-2008, 07:33 PM

GVGjr

08-05-2008, 08:15 PM

The worst possible thing we could do to Cam's development is to continue to throw him around and not let him settle. He played his best footy in 06 when he was allowed to settle down back and its no coincience that the same has happened this year.

Normally I would agree but the club did prepare his as a CHF over the pre-season before having to move him back into defence when the injuries to Williams and Everitt occurred.

LostDoggy

08-05-2008, 08:39 PM

I just don't think it is Wight who is or should be looking over his shoulders. At present there would be atleast one other mid/ tallish defender who would go before Wight.

I'm with you Mantis. He may have been a regular player for a few seasons however he gives away too many free kicks, his disposal can be questionable and a spell may do him the world of good.

Would be disappointed to see the developing players like Wight get excluded.

Dancin' Douggy

08-05-2008, 09:26 PM

I'm with you Mantis. He may have been a regular player for a few seasons however he gives away too many free kicks, his disposal can be questionable and a spell may do him the world of good.

Would be disappointed to see the developing players like Wight get excluded.

Could you just #@$%$#%&*&^% say who it is?

Mantis

08-05-2008, 10:02 PM

Could you just #@$%$#%&*&^% say who it is?

Ryan Hargrave.

Dancin' Douggy

08-05-2008, 10:12 PM

Thought so. Can't say I have a strong opinion either way but definitely one to be superseded by a better option eventually.

dog town

08-05-2008, 10:24 PM

I reckon Hargrave has been pretty good value this year. He looks awkward and can give up some goals but his creativeness is vastly underrated and he is genuinely tough. Unless we pick up a couple of pretty bloody good defenders in a mid season draft then I would say Hargy is pretty safe. Did a pretty good job on O'Loughlin last week as well.

1eyedog

08-05-2008, 10:49 PM

Ryan Hargrave.

The new scapegoat? Hargrave is one of the first pick IMO and will continue to be.

The Coon Dog

08-05-2008, 10:55 PM

The new scapegoat? Hargrave is one of the first pick IMO and will continue to be.

I'm finding it hard to work out why some would look at Shaggy or Cam Wight for that matter to be dropped. I'm happy Shaggy's there.

GVGjr

08-05-2008, 10:58 PM

The new scapegoat? Hargrave is one of the first pick IMO and will continue to be.

I rate him and whilst he hasn't been great, I'd be surprised if he was dropped.

bornadog

08-05-2008, 11:04 PM

Williams is still developing and has along way to go, however, if he turns out how the club want him to, he will be the CHB . As for Cam Wight, Eade has already stated that he can see a place for Cam playing on the wing as well as helping out in the ruck through the interchange bench.

I think Cam is improving every week and doing the job he has been asked to do. His decision making skills have improved as he gains more experience.

Sockeye Salmon

08-05-2008, 11:05 PM

Hargrave >>>>> Wight.

Cam Wight has improved a lot but he was coming from a long way back and still has a long way to go.

Mantis

09-05-2008, 07:41 AM

I'm finding it hard to work out why some would look at Shaggy or Cam Wight for that matter to be dropped. I'm happy Shaggy's there.

Who goes then?

It's fact that when Williams is match fit he plays and someone, probably a mid/ tallish defender will make way.

The Underdog

09-05-2008, 09:23 AM

I'm one of the ones who have been fairly happy with Cam Wight this season. He get's beaten sometimes but he also tackles, chases, works forward and as Twodogs said, goes when he has to. It would be unfortunate for him to be dropped to make way for Williams.
I think Williams will have to earn his place although I'm sure they will find a place for him as soon as he has.
I agree that Shaggy is unlikely to be dropped and has probably earnt that position over the years although I'm firmly in the camp that this hasn't been one of his better years so far.
I think Hill's probably ready for a spell, although Ray would seem his natural replacement when fit.
It's nice to have selection quandries due guys being in form and earning a spot, hey?

Mantis

09-05-2008, 10:47 AM

Dunno Mantis, tho that's a good position to be in. Maybe move Shaggy onto a wing & if he's there then you may look at either Hill or Eagleton.

Shaggy has never really played on the wing for his whole career with us, he has always played in defence. Although he has all the attritibutes to being a success on the wing.ie. good hands, long kick and pace I don't think it is as easy as just moving him there and thinking he will go ok.

I personally like what Wight brings to the team, adds a bit of flexibility, can play tall/ small in defence, pinch hit in the ruck and is an option up forward if required.

As the Underdog says it's good to be a position where players need to continually perform to stay in the side. Going back as little as late last year players where getting a game who clearly didn't deserve one. The lack of injuries and the improvement across the board has put us in a reasonaly powerful position.

Sockeye Salmon

09-05-2008, 11:31 AM

The other thing we must remember is that getting dropped is no embarassment nor does it mean that their career is over.

If Shaggy was to get dropped all it would mean was that we had fantastic depth.

Internet forums are typically along the lines of "he's shit. drop him and delist him".

All it really means now is that we've got more than 22 players worthy of a senior spot.

strebla

09-05-2008, 12:55 PM

All players at williamstown really needc to have a huge 2 or 3 weeks before anyone gets dropped from this team including hill and cam wight they do their job week in week out .
i agree that shag is one of the first picked each week he is hard tough and will make his player worh his arse off which is whi micky o so so knackered last week never underestimate how hard shagger works .

rgcarter@net-tech.co

09-05-2008, 03:25 PM

Why not play Williams ,when he is ready, off the interchange bench so that he can gain some match speed and touch.
He could share the role of CHB or perhaps wing ,with the others and then we will all see his future, perhaps more clearly.

1eyedog

09-05-2008, 10:57 PM

Dunno Mantis, tho that's a good position to be in. Maybe move Shaggy onto a wing & if he's there then you may look at either Hill or Eagleton.

Def Ego before Shaggy, Shag's is tough and we need them

Ego for Williams
Hill for Ray

soupman

10-05-2008, 12:44 AM

I think the only guys we should look at dropping are:

Josh Hill: Was brilliant early but has done little since. I think he is right on the edge at the moment, we want to give him game time but unless he picks his form up guys like Everitt and Ray are going to nick his spot.

Nathan Eagleton: Again, started well and does some good stuff. On the weekend against Sydney he did well at times, but I clearly remember him dropping two basic marks that resulting in turnovers and atleast one goal, and I think he screwed up a kick as well. He's been good over the years but I think he's in danger with Farren Ray looking to improve and Hill having impressed. I think Farren will overtake him by the end of the year.

Stephen Tiller: Played alright on the weekend, but probably won't hold his spot. Unfortunate if he misses out, hasn't done anything wrong, and is in a similiar position to Hill in terms of wanting to play him to try him out and get more experience, but guys like Williams, Everitt and West will want his spot.

These are the only three blokes who I can justify dropping, and even then only just. Each of them would be unlucky to miss out, and it means Williams, Everitt, Ray, Ward, O'Keefe and Street each have a tough task ahead in getting back into the side. Haven't been in this position in a while, but its definitely a good thing.

western cookie

10-05-2008, 11:29 AM

Mofra

10-05-2008, 01:30 PM

I'm definately in the Wight corner on this one. Let me explain.

Williams is riding almost solely on two things - altheticism (which is better than near anyone in the AFL) and potential, which puts him in the same braket as about 371,568 other young players.

William's has two major drawbacks - firstly, he is clearly made of tissue paper.
Secondly, he is still learning the game and looks lost unless playing defence where he can be led to the ball.

Wight has some major assets - his endurance for a big man is phenominal. He does a few things which can't really be taught - head over the ball, backs into packs, etc. When he needs to go, he does. Team non-negotiable task.
His real forte is durability - he is tougher than most give him credit for, and does actually dish a bit out. He is also possibly the most versatile player in the team (Cooney's ruck prowess notwithstanding :D). He played pre-season forward, real season back & in the ruck (keeping a Tall in the forwardline) and has the motor to play in the middle.
He is also averaging almost a goal per game, great for a CHB.

Wight does have his drawbacks. The ball doesn't feel as safe in his hands as it does with a Murphy or Gilbee. I think his handspeed needs to improve if he is to play a mobile forward role (quick handballs to running players seem to be a team specialty). His turning circle is large as you'd expect from a player of his size.

On balance, I'd choose Wight over Williams unless Tommyboy shows something other then just "potential" at Willy. Sadly, at this stage I'm also more inclined to invest gametime in a player who will actually get out on the paddock for more than 15 minutes per season.

ledge

10-05-2008, 02:33 PM

Wight has done more than i expected, really impressed now, he tries his heart out and does the 1%ers

LostDoggy

10-05-2008, 03:37 PM

I agree with someone else on here that suggested we put Williams onto the bench. Wight - has done enough to earn his spot, a serviceable player.

ledge

10-05-2008, 05:00 PM

Can Williams play up forward?
If he is soo good could do the forward pocket 2 talls option. Minson and him.
Plenty of options, and tell me isnt Everitt being made a roaming backman too.
We have a great problem!

Bumper Bulldogs

10-05-2008, 06:55 PM

Would be disappointed if shaggy got cut.

Form is a beautiful thing and the boys IMO would be Hill, Eagleton and Tiler who played against the Swans.

The way I read it we could use Shaggy Wing or HFF as he is a good kick.

P.S thought we where a small side deprived of Height?

The Coon Dog

11-05-2008, 02:24 PM

still believe williams will be something special and needs to be in the side when match fit to further his development. ego is the one in trouble, his kickings not like it once was and his mistakes seem more prominent.

Yeah, I reckon you're right (your brother in law tells me that's a rarity in itself) & welcome to WOOF wc.

lowedog

11-05-2008, 04:10 PM

No real need for drastic change, but if willo is fit, he's in. Probably at the expence of a Tiller/Hill/Eagle, but if that is as some one suggested a problem, then it's a great one to have!

Dry Rot

31-05-2008, 05:07 PM

Was today one of the better games Williams has played? Thought he did damned well.

hujsh

31-05-2008, 05:10 PM

Was today one of the better games Williams has played? Thought he did damned well.

Definitely did a good job and maybe was a little surer with the ball than Wight. Wonder how Franklin was on his own when he got his second though

LostDoggy

31-05-2008, 07:43 PM

There is no way I would play Wight on Franklin.

LostDoggy

31-05-2008, 10:05 PM

No competition. Williams over Wight any day. I think the coaching staff agree 100%.

And Franklin would have been a bit too good for Wighty, I fear.

Having said that it's handy to have a player like Wight not even in our best 22 -- depth is as good as I've ever remembered it.

Mofra

31-05-2008, 10:34 PM

There is no way I would play Wight on Franklin.

Not after today's effort by a Williams still get back to full fitness. Put himself back into the best 22 on the back of today's effort.

The Pie Man

01-06-2008, 10:06 AM

Cam was clearly in trouble after the North game, and I was happy Tiller got an opportunity this week (and took it) I think Eade and co get a huge tick for fast tracking Tom back and giving him one the 3 hardest jobs in footy (along with J Brown & Fev) His athleticism AND size made him the perfect fit.

Anyone notice how much weight Williams has put on as well? In 12-18 months he could be a monster - Cam Wight still looks way too skinny - though playing him forward has merit. Good overhead, and at least he'd be kicking at the sticks and not trying to pinpoint blokes around the ground, where he struggles. Mobile too. If they're serious about this option, they need to play Wight at CHF for Willy and leave him there until he retuns to the seniors. Too often I see blokes played out of position in the VFL. It's obvious they've given up on McDougall.....

DOG GOD

01-06-2008, 12:29 PM

Williams really showed his potential yesterday, especially his performance on buddy 1 on 1. If Tommy can continue to learn the game, and he becomes settled in the 22 for a long period of time, then we have ourselves a GUN.

Sockeye Salmon

01-06-2008, 04:02 PM

So, does Williams back up next week on Reiwoldt or do we go with Morris again?

The Pie Man

01-06-2008, 05:09 PM

So, does Williams back up next week on Reiwoldt or do we go with Morris again?

Was about to write absolutely, though with no Gehrig who knows. I think Lake would more likely go to Kosi and Williams to Reiwoldt. Saints had a predictably big win against Melbourne after the soft tag, this will be a hard game.

Morris was terrific on Reiwoldt, though he still had a big influence on the game, beating him one on one through shear size & reach. I don't think he should play on him again, but gee Morris is a gem hey?