Rate the coaches as players

[Dry Rot]

Of the current 16 coaches, I only saw Roos play.

What was each like as a player?

[ledge]

Good post dry, i have always looked at coaches and there style and how the team plays , to me i tend to notice the team has the strengths the coach had as a player.
Wallace with us had a great midfield.
Malthouse is the biggest example of this, he was a backman and every club he has coached has always had the measliest backline.
Daniher at Melb had Nietz and Shwartz, much the same as him tall and could take a mark, and used them well.
Thomas at St kilda had an awesome forward line but seemed to have no idea how to structure it, Thomas wasnt a forward.
Sheedy at Essendon was a tough trying, dirty back pocket. When he took over at Essendon he had built that tough dirty look into them, eg rules were changed because he taught players to keep hold of players when they marked , thats so obvious he was a backman.
Eade was dasher and we play his way also.
Brisbane with Leigh Matthews are hard bodied and strong, play a lot like he did, barge through and hit hard.
Ratten at Carlton is building up his midfield, where did Ratten play?
OF course i dont know how some of the coaches played as some only played a few games.
Pagan was an exception at Nth, think he only played a handful of games in a back pocket, but his side was built from the under 19s and worked there way through, he had players that were that good he built his game around them (Carey)
Its quite obvious this is going to happen as coaches are going to coach what they know.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I think Woosha had it a few years ago but is in rebuilding.
Havey - Well Freo have no hope.
Roos always the loose defender that picked up easy kicks as the extra man, no wonder the swan have no speed.
Mark williams - I cant place the side as i feel they are so dominated by the Corns factor.

[MikeSheahan]

My list in order of playing ability and acheivements.
1. Matthews
2. Worsfold
3. Roos
4. Williams
5. Wallace
6. Eade
7. Harvey
8. Ratten
9. Malthouse
10. Knights
11. Thompson
12. Laidley
13. Lyon
14. Clarkson
15. Bailey
16. Craig

[ledge]

Surprises me you have Malthouse so low and Eade below Wallace.

[GVGjr]

Surprises me you have Malthouse so low and Eade below Wallace.


Wallace was a far better footballer than Eade in my opinion.

[MikeSheahan]

A very hard list to do, but I feel that Wallace had more impact in the Hawthorn engine room than Eade, but both were great. Mick Malthouse was a very good player but not a great one. By the way, my list applies to AFL only, so Neil Craig has to be 16, but I'm certainly aware of his longevity in the SANFL.

[ledge]

Sorry didnt read post properly was going just on coaching side of things

[1eyedog]

My list in order of playing ability and acheivements.
1. Matthews
2. Worsfold
3. Roos
4. Williams
5. Wallace
6. Eade
7. Harvey
8. Ratten
9. Malthouse
10. Knights
11. Thompson
12. Laidley
13. Lyon
14. Clarkson
15. Bailey
16. Craig

Surprised 3 or 4 of these guys are below Woosha.

[ledge]

Surprised 3 or 4 of these guys are below Woosha.

Remember this is on playing ability and coaching put together, i tend to agree with the list,not far off at all.
Which ones would you put above Woosha and why?
Roos probably?

[MikeSheahan]

I thought Worsfold at 2 was an easy choice. Two time premiership captain does enough for me. An absolute fearless leader was Woosha.

[ledge]

But in playing wise its not Roos fault he never played in a premiership side, actual fact, can you imagine how hard it would have been playing at Fitzroy for years.
And then he proved himself to Sydney as a player and played well.
Moved on to a Premiership coach too in a side that never really looked like doing it.
We dont like his game plan but its different , which shows initiative and has got him the ultimate prize.
Both Woosha and Roos were great players and are good coaches, a close one for me.

[Dry Rot]

Remember this is on playing ability and coaching put together


No. I'm purely asking about them as a player.

[Dry Rot]

Surprised 3 or 4 of these guys are below Woosha.

What was he like as a player?

Position? IIRC he was a feared defender.

[ledge]

What was he like as a player?

Position? IIRC he was a feared defender.

He was a very, very good player, hard and honest, a lot of skill too.
Would get a game in any AFL team and probably would have captained in all of them too.

[Bulldog Revolution]

He was a very, very good player, hard and honest, a lot of skill too.
Would get a game in any AFL team and probably would have captained in all of them too.

Started off as a skilful midfielder but then converted into a half back hit man - I personally didn't think he was that good. Sure he was a good defender and stuck to a task but he was in a super talented team and was a long way from one of the best of them. Good team player but doesn't stack up against a lot of these guys

I like the ranking list MS, but I saw it more as:

1. Matthews
2. Roos
3. Wallace
4. Ratten
5. Eade
6. Williams
7. Knights
8. Worsfold
9. Thompson
10. Harvey
11. Malthouse
12. Laidley
13. Lyon
14. Clarkson
15. Bailey
16. Craig

[1eyedog]

I thought Worsfold at 2 was an easy choice. Two time premiership captain does enough for me. An absolute fearless leader was Woosha.

I just thought Roos was a better player than Woosha, Woosha was all go sure but Roos had a touch of class. Woosha wouldn't know class if it bit him on the backside;) I also think Roos is more a revolutionary coach than Woosha, Roos molded a side out of a lot of mediocre players . It could be argued that Woosha already had good cattle in those two grand final appearances. So for mine, yes Roos above Woosha for sure ledge:).

[1eyedog]

Ok here's mine, this is based on playing ability ONLY!

1. Matthews
2. Roos
3. Wallace
4. Williams
5. Worsfold
6. Eade
7. Ratten
8. Harvey
9. Knights
10. Thompson
11. Malthouse
12. Laidley
13. Lyon
14. Clarkson
15. Bailey
16. Craig

IMO Roos, Wallace and Choc were better players than Woosha, possibly even Eade as well but I'll settle for that.

[1eyedog]

I thought Worsfold at 2 was an easy choice. Two time premiership captain does enough for me. An absolute fearless leader was Woosha.

Ok fair enough. I guess I am looking at individual footballing ability for mine.

[gohardorgohome]

1. Matthews **** One of the all time greatest
2. Roos **** Carried Fitzroy for years, one of footys least accountable players, but he backed himself.
3. Wallace ****Lots of bitter and twisted doggies supporters forget how good he was for the Hawks and the Dogs.
4. Thompson **** Quality player and premiership captain.
5. Ratten **** Ball magnet in the midfield.
6. Knights **** I remember him turning around a final by himself angainst the bombers.
7. Worsfold ****Was a great leader and captain. A very good but not great player
8. Harvey ****Very good hard player tough as nails. Got AFL player of the year once in one of the papers in the mid 80's .
9. Williams **** Maybe ranked a little low. He was captain of Collingwood.
10. Eade ****Fast Dashing wingman.
11. Lyon **** Started out as a gun, injuries slowed him down, but he got the most of what he could do.
12. Laidley **** Good North premiership player and Eagles
13. Clarkson **** Not a great player but managed to play oveer 150 games through persistance.
14. Malthouse **** Richmond premiership player tough back pocket.
15. Bailey **** Don t remember much from him playing
16. Craig ****(Did not see play cannot comment) I would say he would be ranked higher, but i did not see him play

[1eyedog]

1. Matthews **** One of the all time greatest
2. Roos **** Carried Fitzroy for years, one of footys least accountable players, but he backed himself.
3. Wallace ****Lots of bitter and twisted doggies supporters forget how good he was for the Hawks and the Dogs.
4. Thompson **** Quality player and premiership captain.
5. Ratten **** Ball magnet in the midfield.
6. Knights **** I remember him turning around a final by himself angainst the bombers.
7. Worsfold ****Was a great leader and captain. A very good but not great player
8. Harvey ****Very good hard player tough as nails. Got AFL player of the year once in one of the papers in the mid 80's .
9. Williams **** Maybe ranked a little low. He was captain of Collingwood.
10. Eade ****Fast Dashing wingman.
11. Lyon **** Started out as a gun, injuries slowed him down, but he got the most of what he could do.
12. Laidley **** Good North premiership player and Eagles
13. Clarkson **** Not a great player but managed to play oveer 150 games through persistance.
14. Malthouse **** Richmond premiership player tough back pocket.
15. Bailey **** Don t remember much from him playing
16. Craig ****(Did not see play cannot comment) I would say he would be ranked higher, but i did not see him play

Williams ranked way too low for mine, he was a great player who probably didn't get the most out of himself but he was super creative, looked like he did things in slow motion, was dangerous in front of goal and did things other players could not. Knights, Harvey and Ratten were very good solid players but for mine, Williams just had that X factor which sets him apart.

[MikeSheahan]

I'm happy with Mark Williams at 4. Became Collingwood captain in his second or third year, such was his influence in what was an average team at the time. Won two Copeland trophies, before Leigh Matthews became the coach and in fact sacked Williams, not only from the captaincy, but the team. Never really got settled at Brisbane Bears, and returned to Port Adelaide when his twin brother died in a building accident in 1990 I think. Played in two more premierships whilst back at Port.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I thought Worsfold at 2 was an easy choice. Two time premiership captain does enough for me. An absolute fearless leader was Woosha.

You really are Mike Sheahan, aren't you?

Being a premiership player just means you played in the same side as other good players - no-one has ever won a premiership on their own.

You could not seriously think John Worsfold was a better player than Paul Roos? That's simply ridiculous.

[ledge]

You really are Mike Sheahan, aren't you?

Being a premiership player just means you played in the same side as other good players - no-one has ever won a premiership on their own.

You could not seriously think John Worsfold was a better player than Paul Roos? That's simply ridiculous.

Sockeye i thought along same lines but wasnt so blunt.
Scary we agree on something, always nice to have back up and know i dont talk shit all the time.

[1eyedog]

Sockeye i thought along same lines but wasnt so blunt.
Scary we agree on something, always nice to have back up and know i dont talk shit all the time.

Yes I put Roos, Plough and Williams above Woosha for mine. No way Woosha was as good as any of the abovementioned players IMO.

[ledge]

Personally i never had much time for Williams and still dont , but thats a personal prob so i find it hard to rate him .

[MikeSheahan]

no-one has ever won a premiership on their own.

Technically no, but realistically I think Wayne Carey did, TWICE!! North Melbourne would not have got anywhere near the two flags in 96 and 99 without the King!

Still stand by Woosha. This game is all about premierships and Worsfold twice led his men to the holy grail, although I must admit he had some sort of cattle with him. Great players, such as Roos, always look good in a weak side.

Interesting topic this one, and subject to many varied opinions. Love it and respect each individual response.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Technically no, but realistically I think Wayne Carey did, TWICE!! North Melbourne would not have got anywhere near the two flags in 96 and 99 without the King!


Stevens, Archer, McKernan, King, Martyn, Harvey, Grant, Simpson, Blakey, Longmire, Schwass ...

Gee, they actually had a whole lot of good players, didn't they? Enough to win them a premiership or two.

Funnily enough Carey had lots of seasons where he didn't win the premiership - years where he played every bit as well as he did in 96 & 99. Perhaps the others made a difference after all.


Stan Alves played 250 odd games with Melbourne without playing in a final. At 31 he was offered an open clearance and ended up at North where he won a premiership the next year. Did Alves suddenly become a better player at 32? Or did he just find himself surrounded by better players?




Still stand by Woosha. This game is all about premierships and Worsfold twice led his men to the holy grail, although I must admit he had some sort of cattle with him.


Worsfold was just a thug with little skill. His contribution was similar to Charlie Sutton's in 54 - when Charlie could dish it out but his time as a player was close to the end. An important role that you didn't have to be a star to do it (Ronnie Andrews or Roger Merrett were better examples perhaps).




Great players, such as Roos, always look good in a weak side.

You have to get your own ball in a weak side. Roos would have been a star in any side.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Haven't got time to rate them all but.......
1. Matthews. obvious.
2. Roos. obvious.

[The Underdog]

I saw a lot of Roos as a kid and he was an out an out champion.
Matthews is the clear No 1 on the list though. Ross Lyon would have been a better player if not for injuries.
The funniest conversation I ever overheard though was on the way to a Dogs vs Essendon night game at the G probably 7 or 8 years ago. 2 Essendon supporters were having a conversation about Wellman and one of them rated him as equal to or better than Roos. That automatically made him the worst judge of footballers in history in my opinion. I'm still not sure how I kept quiet.

[ledge]

Well it was an Essendon supporter, say no more.

[LostDoggy]

I was surprised Ratten rated quite lowly on a few lists. He was a top-line midfielder, was he not? Him and Old Man Bradley could run all day and pick up possessions at will.

Btw, Brads still runs marathons regularly, apparently (I'm sure someone on this forum would know for sure -- some of my marathon mates see him around a bit). The man is a freak.

[Sedat]

I was surprised Ratten rated quite lowly on a few lists. He was a top-line midfielder, was he not? Him and Old Man Bradley could run all day and pick up possessions at will.
Agreed. Ratten was the clear B&F in a premiership season that the club only lost 2 games in. He was a top shelf inside midfielder who made so many of his playes look much better, and he was consistently top shelf virtually as soon as he commenced his career in 1990 up until he retired. One of the most under-rated players in the last 20 years in the AFL. I'd personally put him ahead of Plough, Rocket and maybe even Woosha.

[GetDimmaBack]

MS, can you confirm that Neil Craig was signed by the Dogs in the 70s?
If so, do you - or anyone else - know why he didn't come?

[Sockeye Salmon]

MS, can you confirm that Neil Craig was signed by the Dogs in the 70s?
If so, do you - or anyone else - know why he didn't come?

We drafted Craig in the 80's without having spoken to him first.

Anyone who bothered to talk to him would have found out he had no interest in moving to Victoria.

[The Coon Dog]

MS, can you confirm that Neil Craig was signed by the Dogs in the 70s?
If so, do you - or anyone else - know why he didn't come?
His wife had just secured a prestigious teaching position in Adelaide & they decided to stay there as a result. I heard him interviewed some time back on the radio.

[Mantis]

His wife had just secured a prestigious teaching position in Adelaide & they decided to stay there as a result. I heard him interviewed some time back on the radio.

Aren't you just a wealth of useless information...