Mark Williams and that gesture

[GVGjr]

What did everyone think of Mark Williams choking gesture last night?

I liked the way that Clarkson got on the front foot and basically said that if Mark Williams from the Hawks didn't get on the phone and apologise to the Port Power then he didn't have a future at the club.

Whilst it is an impressive show of control and vision by Clarkson but is the game getting to precious when a gesture like that is seen in such a serious light?


This from the Hun

HAWTHORN coach Alastair Clarkson last night made an extraordinary post-match apology to his Port Adelaide counterpart, Mark Williams.

It came after Williams's Hawthorn namesake made a mock choking gesture towards the Power coaching box towards the end of yesterday's 15-point win at Aurora Stadium.

The Hawk forward had kicked the sealing goal in Hawthorn's come-from-behind victory when he put his right hand to his throat, mimicking the Port Adelaide coach's controversial salute after the 2004 premiership.

Hawthorn's victory over its one-time nemesis extended its unbeaten run to eight, but Clarkson was furious with the ungracious gesture of his unpredictable forward.

He even threatened to show Williams the door if he had a repeat of his behaviour.

"Can I make an apology to the Port Adelaide Footy Club, because the gesture our Mark Williams made at the end of the game was not in line with the way we like to go about our footy?" Clarkson said.

"We like to be humble and gracious in victory, and not put on performances like that. That's the quickest way to find the exit door at our footy club . . . we don't accept that sort of behaviour at our club."

Clarkson said he had told Williams his actions were unacceptable and that he expected him to call the Port Adelaide coach to apologise.

Williams tried to make that call last night as the two teams made their way to the Launceston airport, but it is believed the Port coach's phone was switched off.

"I will be expecting that our Mark Williams gives Mark Williams from the Port side a call . . . if he will, indeed, accept the call, because if I was 'Choco' Williams, I don't even know if I would want the call," Clarkson said.

The Power coach had a dig back at his namesake in his press conference last night.

"I saw it . . . he hadn't touched the ball all day," he said. "I don't need his call. I couldn't care less. Footballers do strange things, but it doesn't help us win the game."

Williams had only 10 possessions and struggled throughout the game before kicking his sole goal at the 25-minute-mark of the final term.

It is not the first time Williams has come under fire for bizarre post-goal celebrations. Clarkson made him ditch the infamous "rifleman" salute four seasons ago, and he has produced several other flamboyant goal celebrations.

While the Williams incident clearly frustrated Clarkson, he was delighted with the way in which his team came back from a 38-point deficit in the second term after being jumped in the first quarter.

"Port jumped out to a bolter like they did this time last year down here, and we slowly pegged them back in that game as well," he said. "Fortunately, today we were in front when the siren went; last year we weren't."

Clarkson praised skipper Sam Mitchell for having the courage to come back from a heavy knock early in the game, ending up being one of the team's best players, alongside Brad Sewell, Jordan Lewis and Chance Bateman.

The Hawks lost defender Brent Guerra with what appeared to be a hamstring tear, while Ben McGlynn is on report for making front-on contact with Kane Cornes in the first quarter.

Luke Hodge, who is missing with a hamstring injury, had an operation on Thursday night to remove his appendix, but the club was confident it would not set him back further.

[1eyedog]

20 years ago who would care? It was probably done in bad taste, I dunno, seems a bit over the top for Clarkson to say that. A quiet word would have been in order but I think they have worked pretty hard on their public image and especially on Williams himself down at Glenferrie Road. Funny that Williams didn't really have any influence on the game up until then, makes him look a bit of a dill. Also, Port won a Premiership in 2004, Hawthorn haven't since 1989? The same chocking gesture could be leveled at Hawthorn's finals appearance last year, where North smashed them. Choco seemed to handle it pretty well I reckon, like water off a duck's back but there is no doubt that 20 years ago if Choco was playing he would laid Williams out. Players like Williams and Milne are cheeky little buggers because they know no one is going to clean them up on the footy field (unlike yesteryear). I reckon Milney and Williams need to be cleaned up, that'll quieten them down, but now I'm rambling....

[Go_Dogs]

Hopefully Port make finals and knock the Hawks out, haha.

I don't think anyone will read too much into it, although I'm sure privately the Port coach wouldn't have been too impressed. I also think Clarkson is right, better to win with grace and be humble - it wasn't even a show of arrogance, it was just a pretty disrespectful gesture.

[ledge]

I tip my hat to Clarkeson he has shown he is the boss, he will get such respect for that.
Williams? well honestly dont know where that came from , its not a history thing because Hawks choked last year against them at same arena. What an absolute dill and yes i agree if it was 15 years ago he wouldnt dare do it.
I rekon the umpires should allow 1 free hit rule from any player at Port , maybe knock some sense into him.
Brogan be a good one to give it.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I loved coach mark williams response, where he said I presume it was something to do with him not having touched the ball

[Go_Dogs]

I loved coach mark williams response, where he said I presume it was something to do with him not having touched the ball

Yes, his dry wit is first class imo.

[W W Biscuit]

Does anyone recall such a fuss being made about Alistair Lynch's choking gesture about nine years ago? I know that it burned many Bulldog supporters deeply, and I still whince every time I see Lynch on Foxtel. Yes, I hold a good, old-fashioned footy grudge.

There was a fair amount of acrimony between the Dogs and the Lions for a couple of years, around the time of the Lynch gesture. It would be interesting to know whether any of the older players have had conversations with Jason Akermanis about these days, or have raised the Lynch incident in particular. As I recall, there was predominantly a 'live and let live' attitude from the Dogs about the whole affair, and Scott West was always rather magnanimous in the media. I wonder though how much it hurt and angered us behind closed doors.

As Doggy supporters, would it have appeased us had Leigh Matthews given Lynch a serve for his unsportsman-like behaviour, a'la Clarkson's response to Mark Williams? Are Clarkson's comments just a sign of changing times - of greater sensitivity to on-field misdemeanors and a heightened responsibility to 'protect the brand?'

Personally, I admire Clarkson for highlighting the arrogance of one of his players. To me, his front-foot approach has reinforced a strong, non-negotiable club culture. If I were a Hawthorn supporter, I would be heartened by this strong show of leadership. If I were a Port supporter, I would respect Clarkson for his non-partisan honesty.

[LostDoggy]

I think that this has been blown way out of proportion, afterall it is not as if he made a racist comment about someone.This is just stupid that he is in this much trouble for something that small IMO.

[LostDoggy]

Where is Ty Zantuck when you need him?
Mark Williams has always been an little arrogant shit and now we know he has a short memory. His machine gun celebrations of past years have gone and it took a-hole like Ty Zantuck to fix it that time.
I believe in karma and he'll get whats coming to him. Hawthorn haven't won anything yet and its these sort of things(arrogance) that can derail their plans.

In regard to Alstair Lynch, Someone from our team should have pointed to their arm and gestured a syringe like movement or pretended he was asleep.

[BulldogBelle]

I loved coach mark williams response, where he said I presume it was something to do with him not having touched the ball

Yes, I had a chuckle over his comments - having met Choco a couple of times when he was asst coach at Essendon I wasn't surprised with his comments.

I remember him saying to me (once he was appointed coach of Port this was during the time they were wooing Chris Grant) that Grant would join the Port stables, I replied he will never leave the Dogs. Once Chris decided to stay, I ran into Choco again and he said "Grant is the only loyal player at the Bulldogs". I have never forgotten that and whilst he was saying all this his face looked so serious. He is the type you definitely wouldn't want to mince words with - he will tear you to shreds.

[MikeSheahan]

I know one thing for sure, and that is Hawthorn won't be looking forward to their next trip to AAMI. Choco would have that image posted on everyone's locker before the match. Perfectly handled by Clarkson, I thought, clearly showing respect for his former employees. Well done, Clarko.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Does anyone recall such a fuss being made about Alistair Lynch's choking gesture about nine years ago? I know that it burned many Bulldog supporters deeply, and I still whince every time I see Lynch on Foxtel. Yes, I hold a good, old-fashioned footy grudge.

There was a fair amount of acrimony between the Dogs and the Lions for a couple of years, around the time of the Lynch gesture. It would be interesting to know whether any of the older players have had conversations with Jason Akermanis about these days, or have raised the Lynch incident in particular. As I recall, there was predominantly a 'live and let live' attitude from the Dogs about the whole affair, and Scott West was always rather magnanimous in the media. I wonder though how much it hurt and angered us behind closed doors.

As Doggy supporters, would it have appeased us had Leigh Matthews given Lynch a serve for his unsportsman-like behaviour, a'la Clarkson's response to Mark Williams? Are Clarkson's comments just a sign of changing times - of greater sensitivity to on-field misdemeanors and a heightened responsibility to 'protect the brand?'

Personally, I admire Clarkson for highlighting the arrogance of one of his players. To me, his front-foot approach has reinforced a strong, non-negotiable club culture. If I were a Hawthorn supporter, I would be heartened by this strong show of leadership. If I were a Port supporter, I would respect Clarkson for his non-partisan honesty.

Interesting angle WWBiscuit

Yes it is for me to hard to enjoy Lynchs commentary - and we had the team of fools do our Swans game on Fox a fortnight a go,

I wouldn't have cared what Leigh had said to Lynch, because I just wouldn't have believed it and all I wanted was to beat them.

There is definitely part of Clarkson that is protecting the brand, but I wonder if part of it is trying to control his group of headless chooks. People can say what they want about this Hawthorn group but I've got a feeling its leadership is flawed; Crawford, Hodge, Lewis, Brown etc are all prone to white line fever moments of insanity - very much like there Coach, and at some stage it might just go horribly, horribly wrong.

If I were a Port supporter I would want my squad very focused on beating them next time, thats the only thing I would care about...words are cheap, actions aren't. I would know that my coach Mark Williams could look after himself because he is a tough customer.

[firstdogonthemoon]

The most amazing thing to me was how much Mark Williams looked like Mark Williams! :eek:

[Rach]

Port did 'choke' I guess, but I don't think there was any need for what he did. Will he get reprimanded or something from the AFL for that?

[always right]

Clarkson seems a bit "holier than thou" to me...one of those blokes who goes around talking about the club's priority in making their footballers "better people". Makes me feel nauseous.

Rather than Clarkson being sincere about his desire to be humble, I tend to think it's more about diluting the impact of the gesture in case the Hawks face the Power in the finals. The Power boys might still want to rub Williams face in the dirt but after Clarkson's apology there would be less of a view that William's arrogance towards the Power is shared by his teammates.

[Mantis]

Clarkson seems a bit "holier than thou" to me...one of those blokes who goes around talking about the club's priority in making their footballers "better people". Makes me feel nauseous.



Gives me the shits.

Clarkson is just a very boring person.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Let's not forget the 'Battle of Britain' and Clarkson's king-hit on Russell Aitken (?) that started it.

[craigsahibee]

I think it was Ian Aitken.

I find it astounding that a player like Mark Williams can reveal an arrogant gesture like that when he has yet to achieve anything significant in the game. Footy Karma is a powerful force.

Can anyone remember Browny showing the ball to the Geelong defence at Optus Oval around 99/00 on his way to kicking 7 goals. Misguided arrogance. And who won that match by a couple of points? Geelong.

[BulldogBelle]

The most amazing thing to me was how much Mark Williams looked like Mark Williams! :eek:

Yeah, they do alike don't they? I noticed that also, especially now that Mark Williams (Hawthorn) has that shorter haircut.

[Tugun Goalsneak]

I can't believe how precious and bloody goody - goody we have become..... fair dinkum, the AFL have stifled any individuality and personality out of the current bunch of players and coaches to the point where they all recite the Boy Scouts " Good behaviour code before they run out on the ground. Spitting is forbidden, pissing is now a capital offence, and sledging of any form is just not gentlemanly. Mark Williams (Port Coach ) needs all the crap in the world to be thrown at him, hopefully some of it will stick and give him some sort of personality. After all he is from Adelaide, and therefore should be pitied, not scorned, because he just doesn't know any better. I bet Rick Kennedy wouyld agree. So come on all you Afl footballers, stand up for yourselves, show a bit of personality, venom, grit or whatever it takes to shake off the mould that the AFL have wedged you into over the past few years. We need another Ted Whitten, Dermot Brereton, Dipper, or Douggie Hawkins. Make the game more interesting for God's sake!

[hujsh]

I can't believe how precious and bloody goody - goody we have become..... fair dinkum, the AFL have stifled any individuality and personality out of the current bunch of players and coaches to the point where they all recite the Boy Scouts " Good behaviour code before they run out on the ground. Spitting is forbidden, pissing is now a capital offence, and sledging of any form is just not gentlemanly. Mark Williams (Port Coach ) needs all the crap in the world to be thrown at him, hopefully some of it will stick and give him some sort of personality. After all he is from Adelaide, and therefore should be pitied, not scorned, because he just doesn't know any better. I bet Rick Kennedy wouyld agree. So come on all you Afl footballers, stand up for yourselves, show a bit of personality, venom, grit or whatever it takes to shake off the mould that the AFL have wedged you into over the past few years. We need another Ted Whitten, Dermot Brereton, Dipper, or Douggie Hawkins. Make the game more interesting for God's sake!

Spitting-are you sure can can't spit or is that just the Richmond supporters?
Pissing-who used to piss on the ground?
Sledging- sledging's fine. Anyone can sledge.

[ledge]

Yeah remember the days of telling your opponent how good his mum was the night before then having a beer with them after the game, and that was FDL! These blokes are paid a mint, but sook at the thought of someone looking at them angry!
I bet a lot of great sledging lines have been missed over the years because of this rubbish.
Most players pissed on the ground at 1\4 time behind the little advertizing they used to put up, thought that was why it was invented!
Spitting from my days that was disgusting if you did it on a player but if you did it on the ground perfectly fine.
Kicking i think was the only biggest no-no i ever encountered.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Men are Men and Boys are Boys, If you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

I'm sure Mark (hawks) will not be game to walk down the streets of port and conduct street talk for the footy show. Mark (port) will slot that one away and bring it out when needed to his own advantage.

As far as I'm concerned I'm happy for other sides to act like that but would be disappointed if the dogs did it as we need to keep under the radar a bit.

[LostDoggy]

Does anyone recall such a fuss being made about Alistair Lynch's choking gesture about nine years ago? I know that it burned many Bulldog supporters deeply, and I still whince every time I see Lynch on Foxtel. Yes, I hold a good, old-fashioned footy grudge.

I have been thinking exactly the same thing all day WW Biscuit.

The Lynch incident pi**ed me off so much that I have never liked the person since. And where was the outrage from the media experts then???? they weren't anywher to be seen because Lynch was a favourite!

[W W Biscuit]

The Lynch incident pi**ed me off so much that I have never liked the person since. And where was the outrage from the media experts then???? they weren't anywher to be seen because Lynch was a favourite!

And because a misdemeanor against the Bulldogs doesn't count for as much?

Don't mind me - just the ol' persecution complex playing up again.