2007 - Ladder Predictor

[LostDoggy]

The object is to list the teams from 1 to 16 at the home and away season?

This is my effort

1) West Coast
2) Sydney
3) Western Bulldogs
4) Fremantle
5) Adelaide
6) St Kilda
7) Melbourne
8) Collingwood
9) Essendon
10) Richmond
11) Geelong
12) Port
13) Hawthorn
14) Kangaroos
15) Brisbane
16) Carlton

[bulldogtragic]

As long as the dogs are top 4, Richmond finsih ninth on percentage and Carlton at the bottom, all is well.

[Sockeye Salmon]

The object is to list the teams from 1 to 16 at the home and away season?

This is my effort

1) West Coast
2) Sydney
3) Western Bulldogs
4) Fremantle
5) Adelaide
6) St Kilda
7) Melbourne
8) Collingwood
9) Essendon
10) Richmond
11) Geelong
12) Port
13) Hawthorn
14) Kangaroos
15) Brisbane
16) Carlton
So every club is going to finish within 3 places of where they did this year?

[Dry Rot]

What about the old theory that a team outside the 8 always finishes in the top 8 (and sometimes the top 4) the following season?

[Sockeye Salmon]

What about the old theory that a team outside the 8 always finishes in the top 8 (and sometimes the top 4) the following season?

Look out for Geelong

[Twodogs]

Look out for Geelong


I've got a sick feeling in my stomach it's going to be Richmond.

[GVGjr]

I've got a sick feeling in my stomach it's going to be Richmond.

That would be a shame. They seem so comfortable just out side of the 8. :)

[BulldogBelle]

That would be a shame. They seem so comfortable just out side of the 8. :)

Richmond has staked the claim on the No. 9 position, I see no reason why they can't sustain that same position in 2007. :)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

1. West Coast
2. Fremantle
3. Western Bulldogs
4. St. Kilda
5. Sydney
6. Melbourne
7. Geelong
8. Adelaide
-----------------------------
9. Hawthorn
10. Richmond
11. Collingwood
12. Port Adelaide
13. Essendon
14. Brisbane
15. Carlton
16. Kangaroos

Collingwood out, Geeling in.

[Twodogs]

It's a horrible feeling isn't it?



To paraphrase their coach "I will fair dinkum spew up"

[southerncross]

Anyone else think the Bombers might be the big improvers?
Probably not based on last night but if Lloyd is fit their forward line looks quality. Michael won't hurt their backline either.
The question remains on their midfield.

[BulldogBelle]

Anyone else think the Bombers might be the big improvers?
Probably not based on last night but if Lloyd is fit their forward line looks quality. Michael won't hurt their backline either.

I see Essendon on the improve, as you mentioned Lloyd up one end and Michael down the other end will be very interesting to watch. The Bombers really missed Lloyd's presence in the team last season.

[Twodogs]

Look out for Geelong



I dunno. The news I'm hearing is that the more things change at the cattery, the more things stay the same.

[Go_Dogs]

West Coast
Fremantle
Sydney
Bulldogs
Adelaide
St Kilda
Melbourne
Port Adelaide

Richmond
Geelong
Hawthorn
Collingwood
Essendon
Carlton
Kangaroos
Brisbane



West Coast will again be minor premier - the list and home ground advantage are huge. Fremantle's forward line is looking pretty good and they will get better. Sydney will be around the mark again. I think we have a good shot this year for top 4 - lots of TD games and the return of some decent players and good inclusions. Adelaide won't drop too far off the pace - they work too hard. The Saints will again play great football and should be around the mark. Melbourne are looking good - and Port Adelaide will surprise a lot of people and charge into the 8.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I dunno. The news I'm hearing is that the more things change at the cattery, the more things stay the same.

Who's gone and done a Carey this time?

[Twodogs]

Who's gone and done a Carey this time?



I understand one of their blokes who should have known better was picked up again for D&D in Ballarat a couple of weekends ago. Certain players still leave the room when other players walk in.



Also they are treated like rock stars in Geelong and live the lifestyle accordongly. There are rumours that they smoke (a lot) and drink copious amounts. Also understand that Harley is a great bloke and likes to get along with everybody but doesnt have the required amount of, shall we say bluntness, to be a good leader.

[dog town]

For every team so much depends on injury. Will watch the saints with great interest. If Lyon can effectively get them playing the sort of style he has been quoted as wanting them to play then they will be hard to beat. They are already a briliant stoppage team and with Lyon formerly in charge of Sydneys midfield it is going to add up to something pretty hard to beat IMO. Also they have forwards who can play a similar style to Sydney with Roo leading up the ground and so many other versatile options.

Yoy can make a case for every team making the 8 other than probably Carlton so I find these things hard to predict. You can guarantee at least one highly rated team will have a massive fall from grace. Freo should go well given the list they have but I could certainly see them having the odd flat patch and missing the finals. Never rated Chris Connolly. Melbourne have a good list but always appear to have that soft under belly and are prone to bad years when you least expect it.

[mjp]

1) Adelaide - I personally see no reason why the best team for 95% of 2006 wont be there again. Potential weakness in the ruck I suppose, missing Hentschall maybe...
2) Melbourne - Powerful midfield, dependable backline, good forward structure. I still think these guys are the best Melbourne based team.
3) West Coast - Nicoski injured again is a worry. Have talent, but I remain unconviced about Lynch and the forward setup. Put a couple of losses down as teams really target these guys at Subi.
4) Sydney - Not silly enough to suggest they will fall beyond 4th 2 years in a row...(last year I said 6yj). Everitt a worry though - he is not Jason Ball.
5) Western Bulldogs - I still think 16 wins is a best case scenario, with 14 more likely. In a more even year than 2006, that will be about here.
6) Port - To me, the team that will rise the fastest. Tredrea will be back and make a huge difference.
7) Fremantle - Not convinced about these guys. Midfield is still slow, and who knows what the impact of Tarrant will be.
8) Kangaroos - Smokey for me. I just have a feeling about these guys, and think that a couple of their young talls could start to have a huge impact on the competition.
9) Essendon - Good bookends - mids still too slow.
10) Richmond - Midfield of undersized bodies (Foley, Tambling) and honest triers (Johnson) but the best of them (Coughlan) is out again. Backline is undersized and selfish (refer exhibit a - J. Bowden) and forward line still too Richo focussed.
11) Geelong - A rabble. Talent will win them some games, but will still lose when they shouldn't. Made the wrong decision on the coach.
12) St Kilda - List is not that good, with a good third simply not up to league footy.
13) Hawthorn - Talented young list, but not quite as good as they like to think. Still need experience - and a reliable forward line - to make a consistent impact.
14) Collingwood - Who is going to kick goals? If Didak makes it back, that will help.
15) Brisbane - I wanted to make them bottom - J. Brown factor stopped me. Backline a real worry.
16) Carlton - I would think 5 or so wins...and another wooden spoon.

[Dry Rot]

Big call mjp having saints at #12. Agree port could surprise, and Pies on a big slide.

[bornadog]

Anyone else think the Bombers might be the big improvers?
Probably not based on last night but if Lloyd is fit their forward line looks quality. Michael won't hurt their backline either.
The question remains on their midfield.

I don't like the bombers midfield and I believe this will be their down fall. Prediction - same as last year.

[dog town]

Big call mjp having saints at #12. Agree port could surprise, and Pies on a big slide.
He is right about the depth on their list though. They carry 5 or 6 players most weeks. I think alot depends on how well they take to Lyon with them. He is making noises about playing a fairly similar style to the swans which would suit them a bit better IMO. They lack a bit of pace but Montagna and a couple of others were starting to show signs towards the end of the year.

Dont see North making it as MJP does. They seem to go better when everyone writes them off but I just dont think they have the cattle.

[westdog54]

For mine...

West Coast
Adelaide
Western Bulldogs
Melbourne
Fremantle
Sydney
Geelong
Hawthorn

Richmond
Essendon
StKilda
Port Adelaide
Collingwood
Brisbane
Carlton
Kangaroos

West Coast and Adelaide will be 1 and 2, in the regular season, its them then daylight.

Sydney are looking very underdone, and they can't expect to keep giving the rest of the competition a head start and storm home late, they'll miss the 4 this year.

I'll cop flak for Geelong and Hawthorn, but I believe they have very talented lists. Hawthorn showed some excellent signs late last season, I believe they will do very well this year. Geelong have made the tough call on Steve Johnson, I think they will be a different unit to the joke they served up last year.

Essendon's 2006 was a blip on the radar, nothing more nothing less. They'll have Hird and Lloyd back, and I believe most teams won't be able to contain those 2 plus Lucas. Midfield is achilles heel.

StKilda and Collingwood will drop. Collingwood got lucky last year, and it showed in the finals. As for the Saints, while history may prove them correct over Grant Thomas, it won't be this year. I can't see Ross Lyon taking that list to the finals this year.

Port is still another year or two off being a finals force, and Tredrea is in his twilight years. Will be a shadow of himself.

And I honestly believe Carlton has what it takes to get off the bottom this year. With Murphy back, Gibbs thrown in, Walker sneaking under a radar or two, Whitnall and Fevola doing some of the best work of their careers last year, I just can't see them on the bottom again. And I really don't get the naysayers who think that Gibbs is untried and could turn out to be a hack. IMO that is absolute codswallop. He's been playing against men since he was 16, in the toughest and most competitive state league in the country. Not only will he play round 1, I'd be shocked if he wasn't top 10 in the Blues B&F

[mjp]

Tredrea is in his twilight years. Will be a shadow of himself.



Hey wd, we obviously disagree on a heap of things, and most of them I am happy with the agree to disagree approach. But Tredrea is 28 for goodness sake. The guy was injured for most of last year...I simply cannot call 28 'twilight' and personally think he has 5 seasons left.

Still one of the top couple of forwards in the league, and whilst he is not a favorite of mine (or more widely in Victoria) probably - along with Lloyd - the most consistently brilliant forward of the past decade.

[Twodogs]

Big call mjp having saints at #12.



Not such a big call, as Mike says the bottom part of their list is, frankly, abysmal and not up to AFL footy. Also I'm not sold on Riewoldt and kosi. Roo doesnt hurt the opposition when/where he gets most of his kicks and kosi just doesnt get on the park enough. Gehrig isnt the most consistant forward going around and their midfield is still a little one paced for mine.


The only real wildcard, and improvement, I can see is how the players react to a new coach.

[dog town]

Hey wd, we obviously disagree on a heap of things, and most of them I am happy with the agree to disagree approach. But Tredrea is 28 for goodness sake. The guy was injured for most of last year...I simply cannot call 28 'twilight' and personally think he has 5 seasons left.

Still one of the top couple of forwards in the league, and whilst he is not a favorite of mine (or more widely in Victoria) probably - along with Lloyd - the most consistently brilliant forward of the past decade. Agreed. Tredrea doesn't get the press over here that say Brown and even guys like Pavlich and Hall get but when fit he has arguably performed better. Bit of a concern on his loose knee caps. Once your patella starts popping out like you are always never to far away from a spell on the sidelines. Hope he gets a fair run at it this year except for our game of course.

I will also watch Collingwood with interest. Based on the individual talent on the list you could mount a big argument for them finishing bottom 4 . The argument against is that Malthouse has never coached in a style that allows any single player to really dominate and tends to get ordinary teams playing in a very unified and disciplined way. It is all very structured and disciplined with Malthouse which allows him to get plenty out of a fairly average list. I am always amazed by how little slack he cuts his young players with alot of draftees lasting just a year or two but his record speaks for itself.

[westdog54]

Hey wd, we obviously disagree on a heap of things, and most of them I am happy with the agree to disagree approach. But Tredrea is 28 for goodness sake. The guy was injured for most of last year...I simply cannot call 28 'twilight' and personally think he has 5 seasons left.

Still one of the top couple of forwards in the league, and whilst he is not a favorite of mine (or more widely in Victoria) probably - along with Lloyd - the most consistently brilliant forward of the past decade.

He'll be useful and is a good leader, but IMO he is pas his best.And if he proves me wrong I'll happily acknowledge as much on here. If, and only if, he proves me wrong.

[mjp]

He'll be useful and is a good leader, but IMO he is pas his best.And if he proves me wrong I'll happily acknowledge as much on here. If, and only if, he proves me wrong.

Fair enough. But what exactly might he have to do in order to prove you wrong? I am still bristling at this - you have just said one of the most dangerous players I have ever seen and a legit 'power' forward (though I hate that term) of the type the Dogs have been screaming for as long as I can remember will be 'useful'.

The list of tall forwards in the league would (even in 2007) go something like this:

Riewoldt (Jumps to the top simply as he has not been injured)
Pavlich
Lloyd (injured last year)
Brown (injured last year)
Hall
Nietz
Lynch
Fevola
Rocca
Thompson

I have probably missed someone (Ablett or Ottens? Franklin???), but Tredrea remains in the top half of that group.

[Dry Rot]

For those predicting Saints' fall from grace in 2007, couldn't you have applied most of your reasons 12 months ago? They did OK last season.

[GVGjr]

For those predicting Saints' fall from grace in 2007, couldn't you have applied most of your reasons 12 months ago? They did OK last season.


I'm not sure that they will slip too far but it really does depend on Gehrig staying focused and Kosi and Reiwoldt staying fit.

[mjp]

For those predicting Saints' fall from grace in 2007, couldn't you have applied most of your reasons 12 months ago? They did OK last season.

Actually, I think they made a mistake last year by allowing Pecket, Thompson, Powell et al to play on. Now they are left with more holes to fill with untried youngsters (I know Thompson is going again - so what), their CHB had an ordinary year then broke his leg, they have recruited two over-the-hill ruckman to go with the two they already have who cant play, drafted lunatics like Sweeney, have Hayes coming off a knee, question marks still over Milne, Gehrig's desire unknown, rookie coach, Del Santo still struggling with a tag, Harvey another year older, Kosi - well, enough said.

To be honest, I think they have more holes to fill than ever and more questions hanging over their head than any other side except perhaps Adelaide (2 years finals choke). How far exactly can Reiwoldt and Ball take them? I agree that they were OK last year DR, and they match up well against us because of their (potentially) big forward line with Kosi the x-factor, but I dont think they have improved and I dont think they will be all that successful.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Actually, I think they made a mistake last year by allowing Pecket, Thompson, Powell et al to play on. Now they are left with more holes to fill with untried youngsters (I know Thompson is going again - so what), their CHB had an ordinary year then broke his leg, they have recruited two over-the-hill ruckman to go with the two they already have who cant play, drafted lunatics like Sweeney, have Hayes coming off a knee, question marks still over Milne, Gehrig's desire unknown, rookie coach, Del Santo still struggling with a tag, Harvey another year older, Kosi - well, enough said.

To be honest, I think they have more holes to fill than ever and more questions hanging over their head than any other side except perhaps Adelaide (2 years finals choke). How far exactly can Reiwoldt and Ball take them? I agree that they were OK last year DR, and they match up well against us because of their (potentially) big forward line with Kosi the x-factor, but I dont think they have improved and I dont think they will be all that successful.


I agree. Peckett, Thompson & Powell were finished two years ago - they offer very little. They are taking up another 2 or 3 positions that they could have been blooding youngsters in.

Kosi/Hamil/Hayes - Fantastic players, but the first two are repeatedly injured and Hayes is coming off a knee reco. If these 3 aren't at their best, The Saints won't win a Grand Final let alone make one. It's that simple, IMO.

Harvey being a year older can't help them either. Their midfield is slow and they don't kick enough goals. Thus, a lot depends on Gehrig - who is getting on and had a couple injuries last year himself - and Riewoldt, who has obvious kicking problems.

McGuire's out too, so it's hard to see where they'll improve. They have a bunch of class players, but too many of them are injured or are over 30 and on their last legs. Of course, if Riewoldt, Gehrig & Kosi fire at the same time they'll probably beat anyone - but it rarely if ever happens.

I think their list is overrated, they've had their chance and they blew it. Their midfield is getting slower, and other sides midfields are getting faster/better.

IF Hamil/Kosi/Gehrig stay fit and Riewoldt, Hayes, Dal Santo & Ball can play quality Football they'll be in the Top 4, but it's a hell of a lot of IF's and highly unlikely.

[Dry Rot]

IF Hamil/Kosi/Gehrig stay fit and Riewoldt, Hayes, Dal Santo & Ball can play quality Football they'll be in the Top 4, but it's a hell of a lot of IF's and highly unlikely.

OK - i'm sold. A few injuries and i can see that they're stuffed.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

OK - i'm sold. A few injuries and i can see that they're stuffed.

You could argue that same case for every side - but for St. Kilda it's a little deeper. They don't have much depth, and with McGuire out, their supposed 'weak' backline is weakened even more.

Thus, a lot relies on their key players - Hamil, Kosi, Gehrig, Riewoldt, Hayes & Ball - 5 of which have struggled with injuries in recent times.

It's no wonder Riewoldt flunks every now and again, because the pressure on him is enormous, and it's not his fault - it's merely because the other key players are always injured.

[Sockeye Salmon]

St. Kilda or Freo will win it.

[Go_Dogs]

I agree with mjp's comments regarding Tredders. Although he has suffered a few injuries to the knees I still think he'll be able to play a very important role for the Power. He doesn't need to play the traditional CHF role anymore, leading up the ground. He can be content to sit around the goal square and straighten up the Power midfield. He'll play a big role this year for them no doubt.

[Dry Rot]

Why Freo? Isn't their midfield a tad slow?

[Twodogs]

How far exactly can Reiwoldt and Ball take them?



What's your opinion on Riewoldt, Mike? To me he doesnt hurt the opposition enough when he has the ball and gos missing a little bit when the other team has possesion.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Why Freo? Isn't their midfield a tad slow?

Definately their biggest weakness.

If I was them, I would have offered Polak and pick 13 for Ray.

[GVGjr]

Definately their biggest weakness.

If I was them, I would have offered Polak and pick 13 for Ray.

If DR was the boss of the trade table Freo would have only had to blurt out Polak for Ray..and
he would have accepted it.
The part he might have missed out was the additional draft pick as the sweetener. :)

[Dry Rot]

Let's have this discussion again after polak's season with the Tigers. :)

[Twodogs]

Let's have this discussion again after polak's season with the Tigers. :)



Done..

[LostDoggy]

West Coast- a machine
Fremantle- if that forward line works...
St Kilda- plenty of talent left, must fire
Bulldogs- barking and biting, on the rise
Adelaide- slower, older, tough as nails
Sydney- tiring game plan, good team ethos
Geelong- have the talent, need the heart
Richmond- someone from last year's bottom 8 has to go up

Hawthorn- young, fast, improving
Melbourne- yo yo time, will entertain
Collingwood- unimaginative, coach can't get more from them
Port Adelaide- where will any drastic improvement come from?
Brisbane- young, got a future, leadership vacuum
Essendon- not enough class, will work hard
Kangaroos- thin as boarding house porridge, will scrag
Carlton- all's right with the world

Brownlow- Pavlich


WA Dogs- Sons of the Far West

[southerncross]

Interesting predictions there Trevnosh
Melbourne are slipping back a fair bit plus the Swans are on a bit of a slide.
No Pies supporter would be happy with 11th either :)

[Sockeye Salmon]

West Coast- a machine
Fremantle- if that forward line works...
St Kilda- plenty of talent left, must fire
Bulldogs- barking and biting, on the rise
Adelaide- slower, older, tough as nails
Sydney- tiring game plan, good team ethos
Geelong- have the talent, need the heart
Richmond- someone from last year's bottom 8 has to go up

Hawthorn- young, fast, improving
Melbourne- yo yo time, will entertain
Collingwood- unimaginative, coach can't get more from them
Port Adelaide- where will any drastic improvement come from?
Brisbane- young, got a future, leadership vacuum
Essendon- not enough class, will work hard
Kangaroos- thin as boarding house porridge, will scrag
Carlton- all's right with the world

Brownlow- Pavlich


WA Dogs- Sons of the Far West

For the most part I agree with this.

Swap Adelaide and Geelong.

[bornadog]

For the most part I agree with this.

Swap Adelaide and Geelong.


I also agree with most of Trevnosh's predictions, but I am really unsure about the Saints? They rely too much on their talls and they don't have a really good mid field which could be their down fall.

[Raw Toast]

Been really enjoying this thread, lots of food for thought. Here is my list for the end of the home and away season (is it just me, or does this season have the feel to it that it could be very very even?).


1. Weagles - still too good, especially at home (I reckon our pace worries them though).
2. Sydney - I think Everitt will fit like a glove.
3. Freo - could be a bit of anything I reckon. A lot rests on the form and health of Sandilands.
4. Dogs - big opportunity this year but will be hunted as well.
5. Dees - quite a nice list but too brittle. Will lead ladder at some stage during season.
6. Adelaide - just getting a bit old for mine, internal strife and might be knocked about a bit by last year's choke.
7. Kangaroos - a big chance to improve I reckon but does Laidley have the courage to keep to an attacking gameplan (pity Thompson if he doesn't).
8. Port Adelaide - Exciting but still Tredrea dependent.
9. Richmond - another 9th would give so much pleasure.
10. Geelong - just don't think they can deal with pressure at either the coaching or playing level.
11. Saints - can't fit them in and do have holes, but I won't be surprised if they make it either. Don't expect to see them playing attractive footy.
12.Hawthorn - fair way to go still IMO, especially with their midfield, and agree that not as good as they think they are.
13. Pies - Expect to challenge for the eight but list has pretty big holes.
14. Essendon - Sheedy's finale. Might surprise if they can build on a decent start but should be found out.
15. Brisbane - big holes in the list and surely there is fire given all the smoke.
16. Carlton - still seem to be falling apart, which can only be viewed with joy.

[mjp]

What's your opinion on Riewoldt, Mike? To me he doesnt hurt the opposition enough when he has the ball and gos missing a little bit when the other team has possesion.

As a footballer:

I think he is possibly the hardest working, best presenting tall forward I have EVER seen. He really is prepared to provide a target to his onballers/running defenders on every occasion, and is absolutely fearless with the ball in the air. His decision making by hand can be poor however - looks for the clever option too many times for my liking - and by foot he has a tendency to go short to the boundary more often than not.

His goal-kicking has been much discussed/maligned, but I have a pretty simple theory on this - once you miss, you worry. Once you worry, you are in trouble. His kicking last year reminds me a bit of Rawlings in his first year with us - just too tentative to be effective. I think he will get this right.

I dont believe he has a great prescence on the field though - certainly when we play St Kilda I worry about Gehrig and Kosi (mainly because of that MCG match in 2005) more than Riewoldt. Put it this way, he is not a Carey, Grant (circa 1998) or a Brown in the forward line to me. I guess in some ways the fact that he is so prepared to run far and wide contributes to this - too often he receives the ball in a less than dangerous position. Perhaps this was part of the Thomas game-plan, and will change this year.

Off the field:

I personally think he is a peanut. I know he has won 4 B&F's at St Kilda, but when I hear him complaining that the St Kilda recruiting staff hadn't consulted the players about trades at the end of last year, or on the footy show moaning (on his 500K pa salary) that the players association commitee (voluntary role) arent 'doing anything', then I think of a spoilt, immature cry-baby. And the image of him in the dugout at the GABBA just comes back into my head, and I realise that whatever the reason for that little sook (and none of them are good reasons) he has a long way to go as a leader and St Kilda are still in a lot of trouble.

[mjp]

5. Dees - quite a nice list but too brittle. Will lead ladder at some stage during season.


Not sure I agree with this RT. The players that they have been picking up lately are (I think) the opposite of brittle. To me, Nathan Jones, Brock McLean and Matthew Bate are terrifically poised young players who really lead from the front.

In terms of young leaders, the only one who I rate as highly as McLean is at our club - I just cant shake the image of the SA u18's team in 2004 and that game against Victoria.

[Raw Toast]

Not sure I agree with this RT. The players that they have been picking up lately are (I think) the opposite of brittle. To me, Nathan Jones, Brock McLean and Matthew Bate are terrifically poised young players who really lead from the front.

In terms of young leaders, the only one who I rate as highly as McLean is at our club - I just cant shake the image of the SA u18's team in 2004 and that game against Victoria.

Fair point MJP, it's just that each year of the past few seasons they've had a moment where they look like world-beaters and then they drop away as if they can't handle the expectations. Have almost missed the finals twice after seeming a monty as the best VIC side half-way through the season.

I like their list on paper but many of their older guns (particularly Johnstone, Neitz, Robbo, Green and White) have question marks as to their performance in crunch games that they're expected to win. I do really like Bate though, haven't seen enough of Jones, and dislike McLean in part because he's been so impressive and looks a natural leader.

A still young South Australian showed some decent leadership qualities again today.

[southerncross]

Not sure I agree with this RT. The players that they have been picking up lately are (I think) the opposite of brittle. To me, Nathan Jones, Brock McLean and Matthew Bate are terrifically poised young players who really lead from the front.

In terms of young leaders, the only one who I rate as highly as McLean is at our club - I just cant shake the image of the SA u18's team in 2004 and that game against Victoria.

The Dees like their youngsters with a bit of meat on them don't they?
A few years back we seemed to prefer the more skinny types with the occasional exception. The last few years have netted us Cooney, Griffen and Higgins though.

[Twodogs]

As a footballer:

I think he is possibly the hardest working, best presenting tall forward I have EVER seen. He really is prepared to provide a target to his onballers/running defenders on every occasion, and is absolutely fearless with the ball in the air. His decision making by hand can be poor however - looks for the clever option too many times for my liking - and by foot he has a tendency to go short to the boundary more often than not.

His goal-kicking has been much discussed/maligned, but I have a pretty simple theory on this - once you miss, you worry. Once you worry, you are in trouble. His kicking last year reminds me a bit of Rawlings in his first year with us - just too tentative to be effective. I think he will get this right.

I dont believe he has a great prescence on the field though - certainly when we play St Kilda I worry about Gehrig and Kosi (mainly because of that MCG match in 2005) more than Riewoldt. Put it this way, he is not a Carey, Grant (circa 1998) or a Brown in the forward line to me. I guess in some ways the fact that he is so prepared to run far and wide contributes to this - too often he receives the ball in a less than dangerous position. Perhaps this was part of the Thomas game-plan, and will change this year.

Off the field:

I personally think he is a peanut. I know he has won 4 B&F's at St Kilda, but when I hear him complaining that the St Kilda recruiting staff hadn't consulted the players about trades at the end of last year, or on the footy show moaning (on his 500K pa salary) that the players association commitee (voluntary role) arent 'doing anything', then I think of a spoilt, immature cry-baby. And the image of him in the dugout at the GABBA just comes back into my head, and I realise that whatever the reason for that little sook (and none of them are good reasons) he has a long way to go as a leader and St Kilda are still in a lot of trouble.



Great assessment. Good point about the Thomas game plan-one of the really interesting things this season is to see how the Saints go with a half decent coach, if Lyon is a half decent coach, or whether their chance has passed them by and they have wasted their chance.

[Go_Dogs]

I would have loved McLean over Ray.

[GVGjr]

I would have loved McLean over Ray.

I don't think Ray was that of a popular pick. Most wanted Bradley over his as well. He needs to have a good season to get the doubters back on side. McLean has really made a name for himself with his ability, skills and his attack on the footy.

[Twodogs]

I don't think Ray was that of a popular pick. Most wanted Bradley over his as well. He needs to have a good season to get the doubters back on side. McLean has really made a name for himself with his ability, skills and his attack on the footy.


And he was a Bulldog supporter.

[GVGjr]

And he was a Bulldog supporter.

It adds something doesn't it? Like a lot of us I was hoping to pick up Urch a few seasons back

["Outstanding"]

1 Sydney
2 Adelaide
3 Fremantle
4 West Coast
5 Melbourne
6 Geelong
7 Bulldogs
8 Collingwood

9 Kangaroos
10 St Kilda
11 Essendon
12 Port Adelaide
13 Richmond
14 Brisbane
15 Hawthorn
16 Carlton

[Twodogs]

It adds something doesn't it? Like a lot of us I was hoping to pick up Urch a few seasons back


I still havent given up hope of Urch. I know, I know I'm insane and in all likliehood he's not going to be the player he looked like being as a junior. But if ever a kid was born to do something Callum Urch was born to wear the tricolour.

[BulldogBelle]

But if ever a kid was born to do something Callum Urch was born to wear the tricolour.

Yes, I think that also it would be good if he eventually made his way over to the Bulldogs sometime soon.

[bulldogtragic]

Fevola was a doggies supporter, I wouldn't have minded him either...

[westdog54]

He'll be useful and is a good leader, but IMO he is pas his best.And if he proves me wrong I'll happily acknowledge as much on here. If, and only if, he proves me wrong.

If there's one thing I don't like its having to eat my words.

Well, *sigh* here I am, a man of my word.

Tredrea was damned impressive on Friday night, in conditions that tall forwards by all rights are excused for having a dirty night.

Was unlucky not to win the BOG medal on the night IMO.

If he can do that in driving rain and freezing cold conditions, imagine him on a still, sunny day on a flat track like TD.

Long story short. I was wrong, and am a man of my word.

[Go_Dogs]

I'm already finished! I had Brisbane for the spoon and Melbourne to play finals!

[southerncross]

Worth having a look at this again. Three coaches have been moved on. Kangaroos and Hawks going great guns and the Doggies, Swans and Crows struggling like anything.

Has the footy world gone crazy? :D

[Go_Dogs]

At least I got the Power right. 1/16.