Changes for Round 10

[Scorlibo]

OK, so we've had a loss for the first time this season, and the attitude of "if it aint broke, don't fix it" in regards to our starting 22 is no longer relevant. We had quite a few bad players v North, namely Wight, Willliams, Addison, Callan, Ray.

Should we drop any of them for the Hawthorn game? People have been talking about getting TomaWill ready for the Hawthorn game and a match up on Franklin, but where does that leave Wight? On the kid Jarryd Morton? Please, Wight and Williams should not both be playing, especially when they're both playing poorly. Tiller played very well for Willi apparently and he would be a suitable replacement for one of the two, with the added option of swinging him forward.

Addison has shown a lot of courage and heart playing for us this year and it would be a shame to drop him or Callan. Ray should probably be given another go seeing as it is his first game this year.

But then there's young Callan Ward who has been playing very well for Willi and deserves a senior game. There are now NO first or second year players in our line up and only one third year in Dylan Addison. An injection of youth may be just what we need to get us over the line against a Hawthorn side playing with Rioli, Kennedy, Ellis, Morton and Murphy.

There will be headaches of plenty for selectors this week. What changes should be made?

[DOG GOD]

I'd maybe look at wight out, tiller in...what need is there for wholesome changes?

ok, some players had avge games and we lost...it was bound to happen eventually.

[LostDoggy]

Addison, Callan and Ray?
I don't think they were our worst. Gilbee never seemed to be on his man and made a few costly errors, Wight didn't hit a target, and Harris got a bag kicked on him.

Hargrave should play on Buddy next week.
Williams? I dont know.... didn't do much, but didn't do anything too ridiculous.

[Scorlibo]

I'd maybe look at wight out, tiller in...what need is there for wholesome changes?

ok, some players had avge games and we lost...it was bound to happen eventually.

Look, I'm not one to demand changes after every loss, especially after a narrow one following an unbeaten run, but I do believe that good form should be rewarded in the case of Ward and that Williams came into the side way too early, having shown very little at Willi. I can't see Williams being of much use next week if he doesn't take Franklin, and same goes for Wight. If one of them isn't capable then there are options in Morris and Heggers.

[LostDoggy]

I wouldnt bring in Tiller. He couldnt take Roughhead or Franklin anyway. If Wight goes out, i would bring in another midfielder, try and beat them with run

[Scorlibo]

I wouldnt bring in Tiller. He couldnt take Roughhead or Franklin anyway. If Wight goes out, i would bring in another midfielder, try and beat them with run

Oh, no, I wouldn't put him on Franklin/Roughead either. Tiller has become a bit of a utility and could be used as a HBF/leading forward/defensive option on another one of their forwards such as Williams.

I wouldn't be disappointed to see Ward come in for Williams/Wight though. Ward, also, can be used in a variety of roles.

[GVGjr]

It's a shame that McDougall hurt himself because I think he could have been in the mix for the side against the Hawks.

I suspect there won't be a lot of changes and we just need to hope that Williams and Ray will be better for the run. Jerry has a good idea to add another running player and just see if we can get them on the defensive.

[hujsh]

Addison, Callan and Ray?
I don't think they were our worst. Gilbee never seemed to be on his man and made a few costly errors, Wight didn't hit a target, and Harris got a bag kicked on him.

Hargrave should play on Buddy next week.
Williams? I dont know.... didn't do much, but didn't do anything too ridiculous.

His form has improved a lot recently, let's not crucify him.

[GVGjr]

It's a bit hard at the moment to work out who should be dropped but the players in contention to come into the side would have to be from Ward, Stack, Harbrow, Hill, Tiller and maybe O'Keefe and there is not a lot of height there. Streets in good form but there isn't a spot for him.
It's a shame that McDougall is injured because I really think he could have slotted into the backline if needed.

[LostDoggy]

His form has improved a lot recently, let's not crucify him.

Would you prefer Wight or Williams?!
Morris is a chance.... maybe too small though.

How long is McDougall out of action for?

[western cookie]

Ward for eagleton then leave well enough alone. no need to panic over one loss.

[Dogs 24/7]

Ward for eagleton then leave well enough alone. no need to panic over one loss.

I didn't think Eagleton was that bad today and he played well the previous week. I agree that there is no need to panic.

[The Coon Dog]

Ward for eagleton then leave well enough alone. no need to panic over one loss.

Mantis, you have found a friend! ;)

[hujsh]

Would you prefer Wight or Williams?!
Morris is a chance.... maybe too small though.

How long is McDougall out of action for?

Morris is the same height as Hargrave.

Hargrave can't play on Franklin. A Williams or Rioli would suit him better. Williams can at least match Franklin in height and strength.

[Scorlibo]

Would you prefer Wight or Williams?!
Morris is a chance.... maybe too small though.

How long is McDougall out of action for?

Morris and Hargrave are the same height - 190cm. Morris is quicker though, which makes him the better defender and more capable on Franklin. Franklin is 196cm, the same as Williams and 4cm shorter than Wight.

[Stevo]

Morris is the same height as Hargrave.

Hargrave can't play on Franklin. A Williams or Rioli would suit him better. Williams can at least match Franklin in height and strength.

Williams was in far better form last year when Franklin ripped him apart and I think Franklin is in far better form that last year as well. It would be a huge task for Williams to be expected to play on him.

I would have a look at
Williams on Roughead
Lake on Franklin
Morris on Williams
Hargrave on Rioli

[Scorlibo]

Williams was in far better form last year when Franklin ripped him apart and I think Franklin is in far better form that last year as well. It would be a huge task for Williams to be expected to play on him.

I would have a look at
Williams on Roughead
Lake on Franklin
Morris on Williams
Hargrave on Rioli

Interesting. As a physical match up, Williams on Franklin and Lake on Roughead is the best, but Lake is our number one defender and it is practical therefore I guess for him to go to the number one forward - Franklin. I would switch Morris and Heggers around though, Rioli is probably too quick for Heggers. Would you then demote Wight Stevo? If so who would you bring in?

[Stevo]

Interesting. As a physical match up, Williams on Franklin and Lake on Roughead is the best, but Lake is our number one defender and it is practical therefore I guess for him to go to the number one forward - Franklin. I would switch Morris and Heggers around though, Rioli is probably too quick for Heggers. Would you then demote Wight Stevo? If so who would you bring in?

My logic is
Our best defender Lake on their best forward Franklin
Williams better athletically than Roughy
Haragrave is a lot quicker than you think and could match Junior Boy
Morris to blanket the dangerous MWilliams

I need to work out the "ins n outs" a bit later.

[GetDimmaBack]

Before we change too much, does anyone know if are there any injuries?

[1eyedog]

[QUOTE=carnascray;39656]A series of incidents involving Wight during the third quarter make the choice clear. He cost us the game. ]Just can't understand why he was left on the ground tonight.[[/B]/QUOTE]

100% agree.

[bornadog]

Wights biggest problem is his decision making. He made a few costly errors tonight, but also did a couple of good things. I don't believe he will get dropped against Hawthorn and at the moment he is playing better than Williams. What we need to do is work out what is his role and what is Williams role. Wight has to consider himself lucky as therean't any other talls that can come in. Unless we bring in Street and leave Minson in the forward line. I thought a few times tonight, when Minson was resting, the forward line lacked height.

Players not performing to their ability are: Gilbee, Eagles, Addison which means one may have to be dropped. As Jerry said, we need an injection of some pace and maybe Harbrow needs to come back in. Others that can be considered are Ward, Hill and Tiller.

Changes:

In: Harbrow, Street

Out: Eagleton, Wight

[The Bulldogs Bite]

OUT: Wight, Johnson.
IN: Everitt, Harbrow.

Wight for Everitt - although Jnr. Spider isn't dominating the VFL, I'd like to see us fast track his development. His run & carry could be important too because at the moment, Gilbee's struggling, whilst Lake & Callan aren't good ball users. At the very least, Everitt couldn't play worse than what Wight did tonight and at least, as I said, we'd be getting games into a future quality player.

Johnson has to be rested, he's not playing well at all and is continually making mistakes that he never used to, and that are costing us. He clutches his hamstring after almost every contest he's involved in - he's not right. He struggles to apply any defensive pressure and as witnessed tonight and last week, his goal kicking is way off. Harbrow has been impressive since returning to the VFL. He deserves another call up and is the type of player we need atm IMO.

Ray/Williams will be better for the run. I thought Williams did well tonight, made a couple of errors, but nothing major and he competed/tackled/spoiled well. Ray was average but he needed the run and is going to become important over the coming weeks with his run & carry.

[LostDoggy]

My logic is
Our best defender Lake on their best forward Franklin


Lake might be our best defender but I don't think he has the tank for him to be considered for Franklin. He is also carrying a few injuries .

[LostDoggy]

Changes:

In: Harbrow, Street

Out: Eagleton, Wight

Street isn't what we need. He won most taps at Williamstown but Box Hill won the clearances. The clearances were are reason why we lost today. He got a lot of the ball around the ground but that won't happen at AFL level.

If anyone should come in its Tiller.
Everitt isn't ready.
Even a half fit Johnson is better than Harbrow.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Street isn't what we need. He won most taps at Williamstown but Box Hill won the clearances. The clearances were are reason why we lost today. He got a lot of the ball around the ground but that won't happen at AFL level.

If anyone should come in its Tiller.
Everitt isn't ready.
Even a half fit Johnson is better than Harbrow.

Tiller turns the ball over too much & is a neither here or there player. He's in-between and IMO we need either another KP to replace Wight and/or more run. Everitt is still realistically a little bit away but I think he'd still offer us more than Wight. I'd argue Harbrow would've kicked one of the last three Johnson missed, and obviously apply a lot more defensive pressure.

Johnno needs a rest to get his body right - he's a liability at the moment, we need him to be a weapon like he can be. A fit Johnson would have won the game for us today.

[LostDoggy]

Tiller turns the ball over too much & is a neither here or there player. He's in-between and IMO we need either another KP to replace Wight and/or more run. Everitt is still realistically a little bit away but I think he'd still offer us more than Wight.
Wight will never be a CHB so comparison of height wiith Tiller aren't valid. If Tiller is a neither here nor there player than so is Wight.
Does Tiller turn it over more than Wight? I doubt it. He was dropped for balance reason not because he turned it over.
If Wight good to pinch hit up forward than I'd rather Tiller, and from what I've seen at Williamstown he is at least on a par with Wight defensively.


I'd argue Harbrow would've kicked one of the last three Johnson missed, and obviously apply a lot more defensive pressure.
No offence to Harbrow but we are talking about a club legend and I extremely doubt Harbrow would find himslef in the same positions. Add one of those shot and minus 3 goals.


Johnno needs a rest to get his body right - he's a liability at the moment, we need him to be a weapon like he can be. A fit Johnson would have won the game for us today.
He is far from a liability. 3 goals and the set of a few others might not be his best possible return but its better than we expect from average players. Think you are confusing who lost us the game. Johnno could have won it but wasn't a major factor in putting us in the position we were.

[LostDoggy]

Before we change too much, does anyone know if are there any injuries?

Johnno's been carrying a few all year...

[Desipura]

A series of incidents involving Wight during the third quarter make the choice clear. He cost us the game. Just can't understand why he was left on the ground tonight.

Have to agree, his decision making was poor when under pressure and he does not anticipate where the ball is going to. I do not know whether he can improve the latter in the future.
When Everitt finds some form, he would be the obvious replacement. For next week I would bring in Ward for Wight.

[Go_Dogs]

In: Stack
Out: Wight

Is going to be my gamble of a guess. I would love to see Stack given the role on Cyril.

[1eyedog]

Wight will never be a CHB so comparison of height wiith Tiller aren't valid. If Tiller is a neither here nor there player than so is Wight.
Does Tiller turn it over more than Wight? I doubt it. He was dropped for balance reason not because he turned it over.
If Wight good to pinch hit up forward than I'd rather Tiller, and from what I've seen at Williamstown he is at least on a par with Wight defensively.


No offence to Harbrow but we are talking about a club legend and I extremely doubt Harbrow would find himslef in the same positions. Add one of those shot and minus 3 goals.


He is far from a liability. 3 goals and the set of a few others might not be his best possible return but its better than we expect from average players. Think you are confusing who lost us the game. Johnno could have won it but wasn't a major factor in putting us in the position we were.

Sounds like you don't have a spot for Wight Ern, is that right?

[The Underdog]

In: Tiller, Hill
Out: Wight, Addison

My reasoning for these being that Tiller has the versatility to play forward and back in different roles. To be honest if Andrejs was ready he would be in instead. As for Hill for Addison I think we need another decent ball user in the backline. Hill might not be as tough man to man but he can play an attacking role and isn't afraid to take guys on or take risks. Cal Ward unlucky to miss out again but the forward line is pretty solid and he hasn't played back for Willy.

[LostDoggy]

Bring in a kid. Ward, Okeefe or Stack. Not Harbrow or Tiller, i dont think those 2 are up to it.

[LostDoggy]

Sounds like you don't have a spot for Wight Ern, is that right?

I don't have it in for him more than say Eagleton or McDougall. Just believe he isn't good enough and thought that for a while now.

[LostDoggy]

In an ideal world all our players would be as good as Murph.

But on a salary-capped AFL list there will be a range of skills and abilities, and it is the job of the coach and the match committee to get the most out of the list. We have a very balanced list at the moment, and players like Wight et al, are obviously nearer the bottom of our 22 than the top. Having said that, the thing is to be able to teach these players to play to their strengths and minimise the damage they can cause to the team through turnovers etc, and to get the ball in the hands of more skilled ball users. I cannot understand why a Gilbee or a Cooney or a Griffen does not run behind a Wight or Callan or Addison every single time they get the ball and call for it. If this is not always possible, then they should be taught how to wait and then bomb the ball to a PRE-APPOINTED, high-percentage spot on the ground that our own players will congregate in and have numbers at the fall of the ball. It's not rocket science.

I think the coaching staff and us and fans have come to expect TOO even a spread of talent across the ground, which is a great thing, but this has made us expect more from certain players than they will ever be able to deliver, while not really addressing their flaws from a TEAM perspective rather than an individual development one. I remember Rocket talking about developing each player when he first came on board, and we were playing one-on-one footy and getting flogged, but players were growing. Now, that time has long past, and most of the skill development of these players are as close to finished as they'll every be. Cam Wight is not going to get much better. Now is the time to minimise the damage they can do to the team, define their BLOODY ROLE, and plan for ultimate success. We are closer to a flag than most realise or even hope for. This comp is SO even, and we are so close to the cream, that if we can just pinch a few finals here and there you never know what could happen.

Come on Rocket. This is where you earn your bread.

[Cyberdoggie]

I didn't think Eagleton was that bad today and he played well the previous week. I agree that there is no need to panic.

he was no worse than he usually is,

but that is the problem.

He's always awful.

Eagleton and brad johnson are the only slackers we have left in our side.
Eagleton just provides absolutely nothing apart from the occasional long kick into the forward line.

It's not so much what he does, it's more what he doesn't do that annoys everyone.
He's a slacker/downhill skiier that doesn't chase, doesn't tackle, and never tries to make up for his mistakes, so other players have to sprint past him and run into the contest for him.

[Sockeye Salmon]

he was no worse than he usually is,

but that is the problem.

He's always awful.

Eagleton and brad johnson are the only slackers we have left in our side.
Eagleton just provides absolutely nothing apart from the occasional long kick into the forward line.

It's not so much what he does, it's more what he doesn't do that annoys everyone.
He's a slacker/downhill skiier that doesn't chase, doesn't tackle, and never tries to make up for his mistakes, so other players have to sprint past him and run into the contest for him.

Laid more tackles than anyone else yesterday.

[G-Mo77]

Laid more tackles than anyone else yesterday.

Don't let facts get in the way of a rant Sockeye :p

[bornadog]

Laid more tackles than anyone else yesterday.

Eagleton ran with Harvey all day, and even tho Harvey was knocked out and played on, he was well held by Eagleton in the second half.

[bornadog]

Street isn't what we need.

Well Ern what I am saying is that we need a tall forward to be there all day, not part time. When Minson is in the ruck, we go with a small forward line. In the game yesterday, we saw this in the last quarter when it seemed like it was only Johnno going up for a mark and when the ball hit the ground, there was no one there. I would rather Minson be going for the mark and Johnno crumbing (or others). Therefore my logic is, Street would be the backup ruckman. I know you don't rate him, but he has been playing very well in the VFL and he has proven when fit (2006), that he can be a damaging ruckman. The biggest criticism of him has been that he doesn't do enough around the ground, however, I believe he has improved on that this year.

The other alternative is to bring in young Grant and start blooding him in the forward line, but I personally don't believe he is ready.

[Topdog]

Think people are being a bit harsh on Johnson and his defensive capabilities. I think I saw him make more tackles in the past 2 weeks than he did in entire seasons earlier.

[mighty_west]

Alot of people are calling for Wighty to be dropped, yeah he had a shocker, but we can really try & put pressure on their defence, lets put Wighty up forward this week, he can take a decent grab, along side Minson.

Tiller wouldn't be a straight swap for Wighty, he is 10 cm's shorter for starters,and really plays more a flanker role than true tall, they are different types of players.

Everitt still needs more time at Willy, hasn't come into any consistant form, still a week or 2 away for being considered in my opinion.

Boyle hasn't been playing for them, and didn't play for Box Hill on the weekend, so we won't need the extra tall down back, this releases Wight forward, and so far this season, has done a decent job, has kicked a few clever goals, gives us that extra tall option up forward, we can really put pressure on them.

For me, Callan Ward HAS TO come in, he has been sensational at Willy, is all class, give the kid a go, perhaps either Eagleton or Ray could go back to Willy, thats the only change i would make, thats after watching BOTH Dogs & Willy games, and considering match up's etc.

The call for Stack to play on Rioli, Stack plays too loose, would get annihilated, is good on the rebound, runs the lines well, disposal at this stage is a bit of a concern as well, he is a midfielder playing on a half back, i guess a similar role to Jordy.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Hawthorn have only been using Franklin & Roughead up forward. Morris will take Franklin and Lake will take Roughead.

I can't see a matchup for either Wight or Williams. One will not play and I don't think you need to be a brain scientist or rocket surgeon to work out that Wight will go.

I think we need another runner rather than another tall.

Ward will get a go, for mine.



Gee, I wouldn't have minded having Westy in the middle yesterday. Antone know how long off he is?

Does anyone know if Hodge will play?

[Sedat]

Williamstown watchers, is Stack far away from senior selection? Our defensive run and, more importantly, our precision out of defence is one key area that has started fraying at the edges of late. We have Gilbee out of form (who we rely heavily on for the skill and dash off half-back), the likes of Callan and Addision providing the effort but not the polish, and the talls, all of whom are not what you'd call silky skilled by foot. Would someone like Stack add some of that much needed skill and speed off half back? Or is he not quite ready yet? Should we give Tiller a few weeks of consistent senior football to try and make this position his own?

[Sedat]

Does anyone know if Hodge will play?
I work with one of Hawthorn's match day assistants - apparently Hodge is still a couple of weeks away, Dew is very doubtful (spasm, not a tear, but taking a conservative route this time), and Lewis should be right to come back in.

[mighty_west]

Williamstown watchers, is Stack far away from senior selection? Our defensive run and, more importantly, our precision out of defence is one key area that has started fraying at the edges of late. We have Gilbee out of form (who we rely heavily on for the skill and dash off half-back), the likes of Callan and Addision providing the effort but not the polish, and the talls, all of whom are not what you'd call silky skilled by foot. Would someone like Stack add some of that much needed skill and speed off half back? Or is he not quite ready yet? Should we give Tiller a few weeks of consistent senior football to try and make this position his own?

Like i stated, Stack would give run, but skills are not up to speed, misses too many targets, and his defensive game lacks, i'd bring in Ward or Hill ahead of Stacky.

[DOG GOD]

Ward..come on down...your time has come. :)

[LostDoggy]

Give Wardy a go!

Welcome to the team, our next Rising Star nominee and winner of the 2012 Brownlow.

[hujsh]

Hawthorn have only been using Franklin & Roughead up forward. Morris will take Franklin and Lake will take Roughead.

I can't see a matchup for either Wight or Williams. One will not play and I don't think you need to be a brain scientist or rocket surgeon to work out that Wight will go.

I think we need another runner rather than another tall.

Ward will get a go, for mine.



Gee, I wouldn't have minded having Westy in the middle yesterday. Antone know how long off he is?

Does anyone know if Hodge will play?

Really hoping he is fit and ready. Internet says he's expected back round 10 so I'd say he's another week away

[Sedat]

Like i stated, Stack would give run, but skills are not up to speed, misses too many targets, and his defensive game lacks, i'd bring in Ward or Hill ahead of Stacky.
Thanks for the update, mighty west. I didn't realise his skills weren't flash - we don't need more uncertain foot skills down the back half than we currently already have.

[LostDoggy]

Well Ern what I am saying is that we need a tall forward to be there all day, not part time. When Minson is in the ruck, we go with a small forward line. In the game yesterday, we saw this in the last quarter when it seemed like it was only Johnno going up for a mark and when the ball hit the ground, there was no one there. I would rather Minson be going for the mark and Johnno crumbing (or others). Therefore my logic is, Street would be the backup ruckman. I know you don't rate him, but he has been playing very well in the VFL and he has proven when fit (2006), that he can be a damaging ruckman. The biggest criticism of him has been that he doesn't do enough around the ground, however, I believe he has improved on that this year.

The other alternative is to bring in young Grant and start blooding him in the forward line, but I personally don't believe he is ready.

We didn't lose the game cos Minson was up forward only part of the game, we lost cos we made skill errors. Street won't help that.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I work with one of Hawthorn's match day assistants - apparently Hodge is still a couple of weeks away, Dew is very doubtful (spasm, not a tear, but taking a conservative route this time), and Lewis should be right to come back in.

Sedat,

Could you ask about Crawford's knee?

Thanks

[bornadog]

We didn't lose the game cos Minson was up forward only part of the game, we lost cos we made skill errors. Street won't help that.

We had no target up there for long periods, as we were being beaten in the centre ruck duels, so Minson was being used more in the ruck than he normally would.

[bornadog]

Thanks for the update, mighty west. I didn't realise his skills weren't flash - we don't need more uncertain foot skills down the back half than we currently already have.

I don't agree, Stack played a pretty good game last week and he and Tiller were singled out by the coach for the 10 goal third quarter, where the coach said they gave the team run out of the backline.

However, I do believe Ward should be promoted before any of the young guys.

[Sedat]

Sedat,

Could you ask about Crawford's knee?

Thanks
He didn't train with the group all last week and spent the entire week on the bike, but this is apparently more of a maintenance thing because of his age and because he was unavailable for selection last week due to suspension. There's no knee injury and he is expeced to line up on Saturday.

[bornadog]

Mitchell is up on a serious tripping charge and if found guilty will be ineligible for the Brownlow, but won't miss a game. He is currently second favourite.

[bulldog]

Bring Street In For Wight So We Can Leave Will Up Forward And Expose Hawks Tall Defenders Gilham And Croad That Would Make Welsh And Johnno Dangerous As One Of Them Would Be On Minson All Day

[Sockeye Salmon]

He didn't train with the group all last week and spent the entire week on the bike, but this is apparently more of a maintenance thing because of his age and because he was unavailable for selection last week due to suspension. There's no knee injury and he is expeced to line up on Saturday.

Cheers. Thanks for that.

[LostDoggy]

We had no target up there for long periods, as we were being beaten in the centre ruck duels, so Minson was being used more in the ruck than he normally would.

Street might win more taps but they are less likely to go to our players.
Put in Street and lose a runner which is what we probably need more of..

[hujsh]

Bring Street In For Wight So We Can Leave Will Up Forward And Expose Hawks Tall Defenders Gilham And Croad That Would Make Welsh And Johnno Dangerous As One Of Them Would Be On Minson All Day

Really, Do You Think So. That's Good:p


But then there would almost always be one ruck on the bench.