What's in a name? Plenty

[BulldogBelle]

Good article...

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x227/freeds1/EJ.jpg

What's in a name? Plenty (http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/whats-in-a-name-plenty/2008/06/02/1212258739493.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1)
The Age
Peter Hanlon | June 3, 2008

TOMORROW morning, at a not-so-long-ago decaying ground in Melbourne's inner-west, another step will be taken in a football club's rejuvenation. The club sits third on the AFL ladder, has just beaten the top team, and is enjoying its best start to a season ever.

These are heady times for this club, which is as proud of its history as rivals who boast of much more than just one day of ultimate glory. Given past struggles just to survive, it is a time to celebrate its very being. To rejoice in who it is.

It's a shame you have to scroll all the way down to the fine print to be reminded of this club's true name: Footscray.

It is more than 11 years since the administration of then-new president David Smorgon complemented its new off-field personnel with a change of name, playing venue, logo and club song, along with a new coach in Terry Wallace. At the time, the club's membership had dipped to just over 10,000 — lower than when it won the 1954 flag.

Then, the club was seeking a new beginning, having played its last game at Whitten Oval. As Smorgon said yesterday, few people leaving the ground after the Bulldogs had beaten West Coast that day would have believed that any heavy machinery moving in a decade later would have been charged with anything but demolition.

But that was then. The Doggies are now alive and well, with more than 27,000 members, continuing AFL largesse and the fruits of government funding materialising at their Whitten Oval home. The new Elite Learning Centre, to be opened tomorrow, is just one stage of a development that will bolster a football club and benefit a community.

Arguably, the time for a new beginning was right in 1996. But, as callers to talkback radio in recent days have proposed, maybe now is a good time to go back, while moving proudly forward. For that song to again begin: "Sons of the 'Scray".

Smorgon says a reversion from the trading name Western Bulldogs to Footscray Football Club is not on the agenda, "nowhere on the list of 100 things we've got to do". While he is president, he says, it will not happen.

He doesn't doubt that, to many, the name is important. "But I say to those people, we've moved on. We are the Western Bulldogs, and we're creating our history on the back of the Footscray Football Club history."

The change was made, Smorgon says, because of a belief that the club's identity was limited, that as Western Bulldogs they could better tap into sponsorship, build coteries and other support from the entire western region of Melbourne, with its 600,000-plus people. "We felt that Footscray was a restriction on growing our brand."

But football supporters do not see their club as a brand. They see it as players, people, a jumper. Something to love, that their mum and dad loved before them. Something to cheer and be cheered by. Something that gives them hope. Of no club is this truer than the Dogs.

Smorgon says the change has been a success, although not all that was hoped for has been achieved. Research shows 55% of members reside in the west, up from 50%. Given the migration to one of Melbourne's boom regions in the past decade, this can hardly be seen as endorsement of the "brand" name.

The transition certainly wasn't seamless, with premiership full-forward Jack Collins tackling Smorgon's administration at the time under the banner of "Footscray Forever".

A website, "Footscray Not Western Bulldogs", maintains the rage today, carrying an AFL ladder featuring Northern Blues, Eastern Hawks, Central Demons, Country Cats, etc. "Grab a street directory and try and find West Coast Eagles or Port Power in them, let alone Western Bulldogs," it barks, concluding that "the only west or western I want to know about is Scott West".

Smorgon is not concerned that, in a competition hell-bent on expansion, the word "Western" may soon be shared with another team, residing in the Sydney market that so tantalises the AFL.

As for North Melbourne's recent decision to embrace its identity and relegate Kangaroos to nickname status, he could not comprehend that club's thinking.

Yet surely the notion of catching support with an all-encompassing name sells short those 27,000-plus members, who proudly see their club just as it is styled in the last line of their song: "The team of the mighty west." People who would be proud to again call their club Footscray, no matter where they live.

[LostDoggy]

What a negative attitude towards the main point of the story - opening of the ELC.

Fair dinkum.

If it was Collingwood, the press would be falling all over them.

[bornadog]

The Western Bulldogs name is here to stay, so get over it.

Stupid article, how about talking about the redevopment and the benefits its going to bring to not only the club but for people in the WESTERN suburbs.

[alwaysadog]

No longer can we expect most journalists to actually tell us what is going on or even to report a single fact. Today the craft is all about hype, opinion and attempts to stir up controversy. At least this piece was true to the new credo.

[Rocket Science]

whatever the merits of the journalism employed here, and I'd agree the arguments made aren't the most compelling ones I've come across, personally I'd still love to see the club's name restored.

[LostDoggy]

Western Bulldogs are here to say and I wish people would stop complaining about it. Though I would have no objections to us changimg our name back to Footscray, I am just tired of hearing people complaining about it.

[The Pie Man]

I won't complain - in 96 I understood the need to broaden our appeal and to date they've done that. Smorgon (and Irene Chatfield/Peter Gordon before them) are legends. I personally would love to see us called Footscray again, but I won't complain.

What I do note is the since JB changed the Roos back to North Melbourne, they crack 30,000 members. I don't think it would kill our 'brand' name. But no compaints, seriously, just worth a thought.

Also, if we won a flag, it would be nice to see our captain on the dais say something like 'this is for the scray' like Kirk/Sydney did with the Bloods. It's important to recognise that history

[Twodogs]

I've lived almost my entire life within a decent torp's range of Whitten Oval. My family have lived in Footscray for generations. I'm devoted to my team and a proud native of my home suburb but I wish to **** that we'd get over the whole Footscray thing. It's gone, it's no longer our name.


We arent The Prince Imperials anymore, we arent Footscray anymore, we are The Western Bulldogs.

[The Doctor]

I've lived almost my entire life within a decent torp's range of Whitten Oval. My family have lived in Footscray for generations. I'm devoted to my team and a proud native of my home suburb but I wish to **** that we'd get over the whole Footscray thing. It's gone, it's no longer our name.


We arent The Prince Imperials anymore, we arent Footscray anymore, we are The Western Bulldogs.


Thats what I love about Bulldog supporters. We know who we are and where we came from. I love the passion of the locals who have stood by the club all their lives.

I've never lived in Footscray. The closest I've come is spending one Friday night in a panel van in the WO carpark the night before a game! Yet I feel just as much a part of the Scray as anyone else because that is the quality of the supporter base and the whole fabric of the club.

[BulldogBelle]

I've lived almost my entire life within a decent torp's range of Whitten Oval. My family have lived in Footscray for generations. I'm devoted to my team and a proud native of my home suburb but I wish to **** that we'd get over the whole Footscray thing. It's gone, it's no longer our name.

I feel the same as you do Twodogs, name was changed for the betterment of the club to survive and grow. I lived in Spotswood as a child then moved out Essendon way. I have never been upset with the name change and quite happy with our club being known as the Western Bulldogs.

It does get a little tedious everytime the subject is brought up about changing our name back to Footscray especially lately because the Kangaroos reverted back to North Melbourne.

It really is a non issue for me and I don't care what we are called as long as the spirit of the club is retained and that no merger or relocation happens.

Everyone has their own views on why we should be called Footscray and others are quite happy with being known as the Western Bulldogs. Either way if it came to a vote - I would retain the name Western Bulldogs.

[The Coon Dog]

I feel the same as you do Twodogs, name was changed for the betterment of the club to survive and grow. I lived in Spotswood as a child then moved out Essendon way. I have never been upset with the name change and quite happy with our club being known as the Western Bulldogs.

It does get a little tedious everytime the subject is brought up about changing our name back to Footscray especially lately because the Kangaroos reverted back to North Melbourne.

It really is a non issue for me and I don't care what we are called as long as the spirit of the club is retained and that no merger or relocation happens.

Everyone has their own views on why we should be called Footscray and others are quite happy with being known as the Western Bulldogs. Either way if it came to a vote - I would retain the name Western Bulldogs.

Agree 100%!!

[LostDoggy]

Thats what I love about Bulldog supporters. We know who we are and where we came from. I love the passion of the locals who have stood by the club all their lives.

I've never lived in Footscray. The closest I've come is spending one Friday night in a panel van in the WO carpark the night before a game! Yet I feel just as much a part of the Scray as anyone else because that is the quality of the supporter base and the whole fabric of the club.

great post.

I agree that is what I have always loved abot being a Bulldog supporter, you do not have to live in the Footscray or the Western suburbs to feel like a part of the club, as long as you know just one other Bulldogs supporter.

[LostDoggy]

great post.

I agree that is what I have always loved abot being a Bulldog supporter, you do not have to live in the Footscray or the Western suburbs to feel like a part of the club, as long as you know just one other Bulldogs supporter.

Very true, I don't think I know any other club members/supporters that celebrates its success like our club. When I am in the car with the kids we are always on the lookout for other doggie members and they get a big thumps up when they are spotted. Do we live in the West? No the North East which is Collingwood and Carlton's stronghold. Do I feel part of the West and the Western Bulldogs - absolutely:).

[LostDoggy]

Either way if it came to a vote - I would retain the name Western Bulldogs.

Well, it has come to a vote of sorts, it seems. Check out the online poll for the Age sports section today.

http://www.realfooty.com.au/polls/voted.html

I voted no, just so it's clear.

[Rocket Science]

Any other compelling reasons besides 'get over it' as to why those who have various issues with the identity change foisted upon them should forfeit the right to harbour those thoughts?

Don't start with the 'it's ancient history' routine either, as if the extent of a wrong diminishes as time passes since the deed.

It doesn't state the total number of those who've voted yet, but according to that particular poll 69% want the name changed back to Footscray, as opposed to 31% in favour of the current name...Nuthin' in that I suppose?

[The Coon Dog]

Who cares???

I couldn't care less what we were called as long as we remained the AFL presence in the Western Region of Melbourne.

Footscray/Western Bulldogs, it's all the same to me.

[Twodogs]

Any other compelling reasons besides 'get over it' as to why those who have various issues with the identity change foisted upon them should forfeit the right to harbour those thoughts?

Don't start with the 'it's ancient history' routine either, as if the extent of a wrong diminishes as time passes since the deed.

It doesn't state the total number of those who've voted yet, but according to that particular poll 69% want the name changed back to Footscray, as opposed to 31% in favour of the current name...Nuthin' in that I suppose?



Nothing at all it's not an official plebiscite, it's just a newspaper poll.


Before I got too excited about the result I'd be asking a few questions: What is the actual wording of the poll question? Who gets to vote? Can you vote more than once?



Fact of the matter is evrything is going well onfield and the club is united with staff, coaches, players, admin and supporters all singing from the same song sheet. Why you'd want to endanger all that and risk a dispute just to revisit a decision made 11 years ago is beyond me. Why not just go back to being Prince Imperials and really be done with it?

[Sockeye Salmon]

This is the sort of poll that those opposed will feel strongly about it and will all vote.

Those in favour won't care so much and would be less likely to vote.

Personally, I don't care much either way, probably leaning slightly towards keeping it as is. I haven't been bothered about it enough to vote.

I understand why it was done and I actually think it has made a difference, maybe not as significantly as they hoped it would.

There are an awful lot of Bulldog jumpers at Auskick clinics all over the Western Suburbs these days and that has to be a good thing.

[Rocket Science]

I only mentioned the poll after it was raised by another poster and am not using it as major underpinning of my feelings on the topic, as expressed earlier in the thread. My view is my view whether I'm part of a majority or otherwise, just thought the result worth mentioning in passing...and it's now gone up to 70% so there.

The wording couldn't be more straight forward I might add: "Should the Western Bulldogs revert to being called Footscray?" Hard to see how that phrasing might unjustifiably skew the results. There's also a "/voted.html" ending added to the URL once you vote and view the results, so I gather votes are kept to singles only.

Anyway, I find the mention of 'official plebiscites' interesting...given there wasn't one required when the name was changed.

One suspects if a poll of members was taken at the time of the identity change, those still harbouring regrets these days might be more inclined to 'get over it', even if those in that camp were fairly and squarely defeated.

I also don't think we're so fragile as a club that we should be frightened of revisiting this discussion. Our clubwide identity is a valuable asset and rightfully stirs people with an interest in such matters.

[hujsh]

Given Dane Swan won player of the round 2 weeks in a row i doubt that every voter was a bulldog supporter.

[Twodogs]

I only mentioned the poll after it was raised by another poster and am not using it as major underpinning of my feelings on the topic, as expressed earlier in the thread. My view is my view whether I'm part of a majority or otherwise, just thought the result worth mentioning in passing...and it's now gone up to 70% so there.


Fair point. I've always held the belief that an opinion cant be wrong. Understand your point about majority and minority opinions as well-people who know me well will tell you I dont often back down from mine no matter how many others howl me down.




The wording couldn't be more straight forward I might add: "Should the Western Bulldogs revert to being called Footscray?" Hard to see how that phrasing might unjustifiably skew the results. There's also a "/voted.html" ending added to the URL once you vote and view the results, so I gather votes are kept to singles only.

It's a fair question. But I'd like to have a look at the entire page set up to judge exactly how impartial The Age are being but Realfooty wont load for some reason.



Anyway, I find the mention of 'official plebiscites' interesting...given there wasn't one required when the name was changed.

Not one specifically but I remember getting a members questionare in '96 asking what our preference between a merger, relocation or a name change were.


One suspects if a poll of members was taken at the time of the identity change, those still harbouring regrets these days might be more inclined to 'get over it', even if those in that camp were fairly and squarely defeated.

It's done and dusted. The only thing to the club would gain by revisiting the issue is destabilisation (if that's a real word!) Look I'd love to be still following a club called Footscray playing out of Western Oval in the AFL but those days are gone. Doesnt stop me yelling "'Arnascray" when the boys run out though-that'll never die.


I also don't think we're so fragile as a club that we should be frightened of revisiting this discussion. Our clubwide identity is a valuable asset and rightfully stirs people with an interest in such matters


I'd argue that it's not fragillity that matters. We wont get any success as a club if we're pulling in different directions and getting sidetracked by issues that dont directly impact what happens onfield.

[GVGjr]

Any other compelling reasons besides 'get over it' as to why those who have various issues with the identity change foisted upon them should forfeit the right to harbour those thoughts?

Don't start with the 'it's ancient history' routine either, as if the extent of a wrong diminishes as time passes since the deed.

It doesn't state the total number of those who've voted yet, but according to that particular poll 69% want the name changed back to Footscray, as opposed to 31% in favour of the current name...Nuthin' in that I suppose?

I originally was one that embraced the change but now I would fully support the change back to Footscray. I probably won't lose too much sleep over it but I think we got this decision wrong. North have done well to change their team name back and make a stand of it here and I think we should follow suit.

[LostDoggy]

I understand why it was done and I actually think it has made a difference, maybe not as significantly as they hoped it would.

There are an awful lot of Bulldog jumpers at Auskick clinics all over the Western Suburbs these days and that has to be a good thing.


Well said.

Don't kill the goose before it has hatched, or whatever mangled metaphor you want to use.

I love Footscray as much as the next guy, but I don't think we'll find too many Doggies supporters who left footy because of our name change, but I personally know new arrivals to the Western Suburbs who have adopted the team simply because it's their local team now. I doubt that would have happened if it was still a suburb specific name.

It was an incredibly savvy move to in one fell swoop identify ourselves with a whole half of a city. The real benefits will not be seen now, but ten, twenty years down the track when our future and identity is firmly cemented into the entire western suburbs. As SS said, you only have to go to any Auskick clinic out in the West to know that this is true. I have nephews and neices with Essendon and Collingwood parents who live out in the West who are now die-hard Doggies fans because of the work the team does in their school. This is the next generation of Dogs members.

As I've said in another post, the western suburbs of Melbourne is the site of the next non-mining related economic boom, with the area slated to grow at a rate greater than almost any other area in Australia. We are best and uniquely placed to take advantage of that, being the ONLY national sporting team in the area -- no Rugby League, no Soccer. The move has cemented our place in Melbourne as well -- no way the AFL will tear us out of the area now, needing to maintain a presence in the area. There is ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT that if we were still Footscray we would NOT have gotten the state and national government and AFL funding for our brand new facilities.

If our identity remained suburb specific we would be a lot more likely to be talked about in terms of relocation. (The Kangaroos are not a similar case as their name change was not geographical and did not have much logic to it apart from branding -- our name change EXPANDED our geographical identity and made us even more local than before)

With the impending boom and our future assured, why would we slit our own wrists and throw away every advantage we've worked hard to gain over the last ten years just as we on the cusp of reaping the rewards, just to appease some vague notion of nostalgia? If we didn't exist anymore those who want us to change our name back can have all the nostalgia you want.

[LostDoggy]

Compelling reasons enough, Rocket Science? Any compelling reasons why we WOULD change our name back apart from appealing to nostalgia to a past filled largely with failure, instability and near bankruptcy?

You would kill a very real potential to become a super-club on the back of going back to a time that we all feared for our very existence?

[LostDoggy]

ps. I just had a look at the FNWB website, and every reason that the person who put up the site has written for us to change our name back is logically flawed. I COULD go over every single reason and rip it apart rationally but it should suffice that I say he has tried to dress up an emotional argument with a rational veneer.

Now, it's fair enough some (including myself) feel emotionally about the name change, but let's not pretend that it is in any way logical or defensible in a reasonable sense, because it is not. It is a fundamentally irrational position, which is not wrong in itself, but let's at least admit it to ourselves.

I wish we were still Footscray too, in my heart, but my head says that the name change has had nothing but upside to it. Those of us who miss it still call it the 'Scray anyway. We are not, and will never be, the West Coast Eagles (a corporate creation), because there are those of us who will always be here to tell the old stories.

--

ps. Funny story -- A mate and I call up ticketmaster/ticketek (I forget which), and he asks for tickets to the Footscray - Essendon game, and the call centre guy (I will refrain from calling him a muppet) says 'There's no such game this weekend, sir'. My mate repeats himself, and the guy insists that the only game Essendon is involved in this weekend is one against the 'Western Bulldogs'. My mate -- who is nearly 70, and is as dyed-in-the-wool a Dogs man as they come -- couldn't stop laughing. The name change hasn't changed his love for the club one single whit.

Re: the call centre guy, my only rationale for his innocent ignorance would be that Ticketek/ticketmaster have call centres in India/Phillipines/Sydney, where the subtleties of our beautiful game of AFL are clearly lost.