The Weak Link

[bornadog]

I was listening to 3 AW on the way out last night and they were asking listerners, who would they trade for, to fill in a gap at their club . One Essendon supporter suggested a Scott Lucas would make the premiership a certainity for the dogs.

That got me thinking about whether we really have one weak link in our side. I mean we can always improve, but with nine wins, one draw and one 3 point loss, we are rated the best performed club in the first 11 rounds since Essendon in 2000.

So my question, is there any position that we have a weak link in to be a serious contender. Personally, love to have a big CHF etc, but we are kicking goals, the midfield is firing, rucks are great and the backline is tight.

[The Coon Dog]

I think all teams can improve, but we are stuck with what we have at present & whilst I'd love J. Brown across half forward, I'll gladly settle for Murph.

[1eyedog]

Think we have the best balance since 1954;) we have good depth now too.

[Twodogs]

An uncompromising, doanythingittakes, hard nut/head case in the defensive half. The sort of bloke who really needs to be locked in a highly secured room between games for everybodies welfare.




Martin Pyke played in 4 premiership teams.

[bornadog]

An uncompromising, doanythingittakes, hard nut/head case in the defensive half. The sort of bloke who really needs to be locked in a highly secured room between games for everybodies welfare.




Martin Pyke played in 4 premiership teams.

Tim callen looks like that sort of bloke but I am not sure if he is.

[LostDoggy]

I think all teams can improve, but we are stuck with what we have at present & whilst I'd love J. Brown across half forward, I'll gladly settle for Murph.

J Brown, thats someone i would be happy for the bulldogs to chase.

[LostDoggy]

An uncompromising, doanythingittakes, hard nut/head case in the defensive half. The sort of bloke who really needs to be locked in a highly secured room between games for everybodies welfare.




Martin Pyke played in 4 premiership teams.



Haha hilarious. Can't disagree.. someone like Mickey Martyn.

Funny thing is Pikey looked a madman when he played but he's such a calm, considered man to listen to when he speaks. Very intelligent too.

Big Mick is a big old softie off the field too, come to think of it.

[LostDoggy]

A fit J. Brown at the Dogs will contest the next seven straight prelim finals, be in five grand finals, and finish with 3/4 premierships. Easily.

Further down the list, Riewoldt is (in my eyes) worth a punt. Top-line talent, will add a lot of value to a near-premiership list.

[Twodogs]

Haha hilarious. Can't disagree.. someone like Mickey Martyn.

Funny thing is Pikey looked a madman when he played but he's such a calm, considered man to listen to when he speaks. Very intelligent too.

Big Mick is a big old softie off the field too, come to think of it.


Mick's a western suburban boy. It's a given he's going to be a little bit crazy.

[bornadog]

With this thread I was thinking more along the lines of the current players and the roles they are playing and do you think we have a weak link amongst them.

Personally I don't think we really have and we do have some depth as well.

[Mantis]

At present I would say our only problem is the lack of a 3rd tall defender. Morris and Hargrave are both better playing on smaller players, hopefully Everitt can stand up over the 2nd half of the year.

As many other poster's have spoken about another tall forward would be handy, but I am very happy with the way our multi-dimensional forwardline is functioning.

But in saying all that we are just one injury away from being in trouble....Touch wood.

[1eyedog]

At present I would say our only problem is the lack of a 3rd tall defender. Morris and Hargrave are both better playing on smaller players, hopefully Everitt can stand up over the 2nd half of the year.

As many other poster's have spoken about another tall forward would be handy, but I am very happy with the way our multi-dimensional forwardline is functioning.

But in saying all that we are just one injury away from being in trouble....Touch wood.

We do not need 3 blokes 195cm down back. IMO that would be a tad top heavy. Lake and Williams are enough and Morris is the perfect 3rd defender at 191cm. Not many teams have 3 6'5 players in their forward line.

[Mantis]

We do not need 3 blokes 195cm down back. IMO that would be a tad top heavy. Lake and Williams are enough and Morris is the perfect 3rd defender at 191cm. Not many teams have 3 6'5 players in their forward line.

Maybe.

I'm just a bit worried when a team throws a resting ruckman up forward. We can get caught out a bit.

[1eyedog]

Maybe.

I'm just a bit worried when a team throws a resting ruckman up forward. We can get caught out a bit.

I understand, but let's look at some scenarios. Say Brisbane throws Charman forward and Bradshaw and Brown are playing. Morris would go to Bradshaw, Williams to Brown and Lake (only 3 or 4 cm shorter than Charman would go to him).

Say Ottens went forward with Mooney and Lonergan/Gamble down there. Williams to Ottens, Lake to Mooney and Morris to Lonergan/Gamble.

Sydney throws Jolly or Everitt forward, Lake to Hall, Williams to Jolly/Everitt and Morris to O' Loughlin.

Essendon throws Hille forward. Lake would go to Hille, Morris to Lloyd and Williams to Lucas.

I see where we could be underdone with height. Say Campbell went forward for the Hawks and our backmen had to pick up Roughie, Buddy and Campbell all 195cm+, Morris might struggle against that scenario but he has beaten Riewoldt twice this year and has prove capable of punching above his weight in any case. My point is I think we have the perfect balance down back atm are very flexible with our match ups. As twodogs? suggested a hard nut Archer type player would put the icing on the cake.

In effect Morris becomes the switch man as he goes to the shortest of the oppositions forwards, Williams almost always goes to the resting ruckman unless he is too strong for him and Lake the established power forward. IMO most teams these days are keen to play at least 3 crumbing forwards, North and ourselves play more than that at times. I cannot see a combination in the AFL that we cannot currently counter, of course an injury would change that as you say.

[Twodogs]

If Hawthorn are throwing Campbell forward we have them all but beaten.

[1eyedog]

If our backs had to pick up our forwards I would have

Williams on Murphy
Lake on Minson
Morris on Welsh

I think our back line covers every forward combination in the AFL is what I am saying.

[1eyedog]

If Hawthorn are throwing Campbell forward we have them all but beaten.

Agreed, T'was just a hypothetical.

[1eyedog]

Maybe.

I'm just a bit worried when a team throws a resting ruckman up forward. We can get caught out a bit.

Mantis, as you may have gleaned I am quite interested in your comments and wonder what type of back setup you would have if you feel Morris is too undersized to cope. From your post I am assuming you want three big 195cm defenders down there as well as Morris? Can you give me an example of your setup?

[Sockeye Salmon]

If our backs had to pick up our forwards I would have

Williams on Murphy
Lake on Minson
Morris on Welsh

I think our back line covers every forward combination in the AFL is what I am saying.

Murphy would be too agile for Williams. Morris would be the perfect matchup for him. Williams would be good on Welsh.
Lake on Minson of course.
Johnno would be a problem, Hargrave would have to do it.
Everitt on Hahn
Gilbee on Aker

[LostDoggy]

Though J Brown would look sensational in a dogs jumper I don't feel that the team would improve dramatically because of him being there. I think the forward line is functioning well, we have scored over 100 points a game this year. As the saying goes if it aint broke don't fix it. I think a KP backman would be more benificial for our club so for mine Scarlett would be my choice.

FB: Addison Scarlett Callan
HB: Morris Lake Williams

Add Shaggy and Everitt to that and I think it looks pretty strong.

[LostDoggy]

Though J Brown would look sensational in a dogs jumper I don't feel that the team would improve dramatically because of him being there. I think the forward line is functioning well, we have scored over 100 points a game this year. As the saying goes if it aint broke don't fix it. I think a KP backman would be more benificial for our club so for mine Scarlett would be my choice.

FB: Addison Scarlett Callan
HB: Morris Lake Williams

Add Shaggy and Everitt to that and I think it looks pretty strong.

Ours is a make-shift forward line that is functioning well at the moment. If you dont think J BROWN would make a massive difference to our forward line, i seriously question your 'football brain'.

Jonathon Brown couldnt play Minson's role in the goal square? he would kick 80 goals/yr

[Mantis]

Mantis, as you may have gleaned I am quite interested in your comments and wonder what type of back setup you would have if you feel Morris is too undersized to cope. From your post I am assuming you want three big 195cm defenders down there as well as Morris? Can you give me an example of your setup?

My feelings are that when we are stretched it is because Hargrave not Morris is playing on a taller player.

For instance when we were playing Hawthorn earlier this year Morris was doing a great job on Williams and we were reluctant to make a switch there so when Campbell went forward (and yes the Hawks were struggling) we put Hargrave onto him which didn't work in our favour.

[The Coon Dog]

For instance when we were playing Hawthorn earlier this year Morris was doing a great job on Williams and we were reluctant to make a switch there so when Campbell went forward (and yes the Hawks were struggling) we put Hargrave onto him which didn't work in our favour.

By & large I think Shaggy competes against the bigger forwards, but in doing so he tends to play from behind & gets caught out slapping arms, holding the jumper or placing his hands in the back.

Unfortunately, it usually ends up in a shot on goal.

[LostDoggy]

Though J Brown would look sensational in a dogs jumper I don't feel that the team would improve dramatically because of him being there.

!!!

Welshie and Johnno won't be around forever. Nor will Aker. If we were thinking in five-year blocks would you still feel the same way muttley?

I can't imagine a single team that wouldn't benefit from having the best/most influential key position player in the league by a country mile.

[LostDoggy]

i probably should have added an AS in that sentance. The point I was trying to make is I think we would see more improvement in getting Scarlett apposed to Brown because Its an area that is probably our weakest ATM I was more thinking in the immediate term if ie if we could pick one player from the team today for this week sort of scenario.

5 years on we would be hoping that Grant would be well and truely established by then having 5 preseasons under his belt one would hope he has a bit of size to him by then and well and truely established in the team. And brown would surely be past his peak.

[Desipura]

By & large I think Shaggy competes against the bigger forwards, but in doing so he tends to play from behind & gets caught out slapping arms, holding the jumper or placing his hands in the back.

Unfortunately, it usually ends up in a shot on goal.
Don't you mean "shot AT goal"

[LostDoggy]

Sure Browny will be past his peak in 2013 but we would have already won three premierships in the meantime and Grant would be ripe to take over the mantle of no.1 kpp after playing a major part in the dynasty. (I said "in 5-year blocks", not in 5 years time, meaning for every one of the next five years...) Johno, Aker and Welsh will probably be close to retirement in 2010/11, leaving (potentially)Murph, Minnow, Gia, Hahn, Harbrow, O'Keefe and Grant who will be 21/22 (future draft picks notwithstanding). A gun KPP will complement that bunch nicely, don't you think?

Scarlett would be great but where would that leave Lakey? Plus isn't he older?

[Desipura]

What Muttley is saying is not as silly as it sounds. If we had Brown would we be more one dimensional and therefore more predictable going forward? Weigh that up against the more avenues for goal we currently have and less reliant on any single one player.
Or would we still have multiple avenues to goal as well as having J Brown in the forward line? This would most likely be the case if you where to win a grand final with a J Brown.
Individual players do not single handledly win premierships. How many premierships did Lockett win?

[LostDoggy]

Yeah, Desipura, I made the same point in a thread a while ago about over-rating a team's reliance on kpps (Lockett, Ablett etc never won a flag). Having said that though, our team scores heavily through a lot of creativity and good match-ups and skill and structure (and Minnow's done a great job in straightening up the team a bit), so I'm not saying we'll rely on a saviour to come and take us to the flag. Having said that, though, a really seasoned, PROVEN kpp like Brown would complement our forwardline no end.

There is no doubt that under finals type pressure there will be times when we'll just have to bomb it long and someone like Brown who can take a contested mark and is a proven pressure kicker will be invaluable, even if he adds 2/3 goals a game personally. I can think of a few turnovers from aimless bombs into the 50 from your Wights and Callan's that may not have happened were there a quality lead or contest at the end of the ball. Also, imagine how many goals Welsh will kick if he's picked up by the next defender down from the one he's currenly copping. (Hahn would probably spend a bit more time in rotations, Murph and Aker can be used more flexibly around the ground.)

And like I've already said, the aging parts of our forwardline will not be around forever. If a gun CHF/FF at his peak at 27 becomes available we would be crazy not to look at it.

[LostDoggy]

ps. Browny will bring a lot more than just a great player to the team. Being the marquee kpp in the game currently (Buddymania notwithstanding) our profile will immediately become massive in this crowded footy town.

It will cement our place as a serious contender for the next decade, and with our facility upgrade and other initiatives it will be the final signal of intent about our change of identity from the down-and-out battlers to a proud and strong club that will compete at the same level as anyone who dares take them on, on and off the field.

There will also be a massive intimidation factor that he will bring to the team that we just currently don't really have from within the team. There is patronising admiration, but no real deep respect for the Dogs, and for all the wonderful quality we have in the team, apart from Aker there isn't really another player in our team with an industry-wide 'business end of the season' profile.. Johnno is respected but not feared, Murph is a 'sparkling player', and Gilbee the best kick in the business but not widely seen as a player who will win you a grand final. Bring the erstwhile no.1 player in the game, the professionalism of a multiple premiership winner, and invaluable finals (GRAND finals) experience and the kind of influence he will have on the culture of the place and the younger players (especially kpps like Grant) and you have a package worth putting your house on.

[Desipura]

Yeah, Desipura, I made the same point in a thread a while ago about over-rating a team's reliance on kpps (Lockett, Ablett etc never won a flag). Having said that though, our team scores heavily through a lot of creativity and good match-ups and skill and structure (and Minnow's done a great job in straightening up the team a bit), so I'm not saying we'll rely on a saviour to come and take us to the flag. Having said that, though, a really seasoned, PROVEN kpp like Brown would complement our forwardline no end.

There is no doubt that under finals type pressure there will be times when we'll just have to bomb it long and someone like Brown who can take a contested mark and is a proven pressure kicker will be invaluable, even if he adds 2/3 goals a game personally. I can think of a few turnovers from aimless bombs into the 50 from your Wights and Callan's that may not have happened were there a quality lead or contest at the end of the ball. Also, imagine how many goals Welsh will kick if he's picked up by the next defender down from the one he's currenly copping. (Hahn would probably spend a bit more time in rotations, Murph and Aker can be used more flexibly around the ground.)

And like I've already said, the aging parts of our forwardline will not be around forever. If a gun CHF/FF at his peak at 27 becomes available we would be crazy not to look at it.
Totally agree. Would love a Jonathan Brown in our side. You realise how much you need a J Brown when it comes to pressure of finals footy in September. I was just noting that the comment was not as silly as Jerry suggested.

[1eyedog]

Murphy would be too agile for Williams. Morris would be the perfect matchup for him. Williams would be good on Welsh.
Lake on Minson of course.
Johnno would be a problem, Hargrave would have to do it.
Everitt on Hahn
Gilbee on Aker

Fair enough. I'd actually have Callan on Aker, Gilbee wouldn't dare run off him so he would be wasted. You are not going to beat Aker anyway so you may as well put Callan on him and make him earn every touch.

[1eyedog]

What Muttley is saying is not as silly as it sounds. If we had Brown would we be more one dimensional and therefore more predictable going forward? Weigh that up against the more avenues for goal we currently have and less reliant on any single one player.
Or would we still have multiple avenues to goal as well as having J Brown in the forward line? This would most likely be the case if you where to win a grand final with a J Brown.
Individual players do not single handledly win premierships. How many premierships did Lockett win?

That's why Wallace moved Richo up onto the wing

[soupman]

Murphy would be too agile for Williams. Morris would be the perfect matchup for him. Williams would be good on Welsh.
Lake on Minson of course.
Johnno would be a problem, Hargrave would have to do it.
Everitt on Hahn
Gilbee on Aker

Assuming a forward line of
Johnson, Minson, Welsh
Akermanis, Murphy, Hahn

I would match up as follows.

Williams on Welsh. Williams has pace and height, and I think this match up works well. Everitt may be another option here.

Callan on Akermanis. I was unsure on this one, I think Gilbee is too loose to play on Akermanis, Callan should be alright. Still not confident though, Aker is hard to stop.

Hargrave on Johnson. I think the options with Hargrave are to play on either Johnson or Murphy, and Murphy would be a bit much for Hargrave.

Morris on Murphy. Morris similiarly to Hargrave could play on either of Johnson and Murphy. I think Morris is better equipped to shut down Murphy than Shaggy is though, and made my decision based on that.

Lake on Minson. This is Lakes position, full-back. Only guy other than Williams big enough.

Addison/Gilbee on Hahn. Not confident here, Hahns a hard match up. I would either go with hardness in Addison or look to Gilbee to run off him.

[bulldogsman]

Would love to see griffen and hahn play on each other.

[hujsh]

Forget Scarlett I'd want Egan (has to be fit though)

[Mofra]

My feelings are that when we are stretched it is because Hargrave not Morris is playing on a taller player.

For instance when we were playing Hawthorn earlier this year Morris was doing a great job on Williams and we were reluctant to make a switch there so when Campbell went forward (and yes the Hawks were struggling) we put Hargrave onto him which didn't work in our favour.
Fair point - it does raise the question, how much value does a fit Everitt add to our side?
A 193cm running type who can defend & is an excellent user of the ball?

Give him another pre-season and a fit Williams to work with, and we can leave Shaggy on smaller quicks who can mark - he flogged Farmer a couple of weeks back.

[Mantis]

Fair point - it does raise the question, how much value does a fit Everitt add to our side?
A 193cm running type who can defend & is an excellent user of the ball?

Give him another pre-season and a fit Williams to work with, and we can leave Shaggy on smaller quicks who can mark - he flogged Farmer a couple of weeks back.

We could in time have the best group of tall defenders in the competition.

Lake, Williams and Everitt are all still to play there best footy (Lake is much further advanced, but still improving) and could give us a formidable group of tall defenders, something we haven't had for a long time, if ever.

[Dancin' Douggy]

An uncompromising, doanythingittakes, hard nut/head case in the defensive half. The sort of bloke who really needs to be locked in a highly secured room between games for everybodies welfare.




Martin Pyke played in 4 premiership teams.

They don't get away with it anymore.
Also I think Shaggy and Lake are made of pretty volatile material if it came down to it on Grand Final day. Minson is one with serious white line fever and he's had to tone it down. I think the pieces are in place if the situation demands it.

[Dancin' Douggy]

ps. Browny will bring a lot more than just a great player to the team. Being the marquee kpp in the game currently (Buddymania notwithstanding) our profile will immediately become massive in this crowded footy town.

It will cement our place as a serious contender for the next decade, and with our facility upgrade and other initiatives it will be the final signal of intent about our change of identity from the down-and-out battlers to a proud and strong club that will compete at the same level as anyone who dares take them on, on and off the field.

There will also be a massive intimidation factor that he will bring to the team that we just currently don't really have from within the team. There is patronising admiration, but no real deep respect for the Dogs, and for all the wonderful quality we have in the team, apart from Aker there isn't really another player in our team with an industry-wide 'business end of the season' profile.. Johnno is respected but not feared, Murph is a 'sparkling player', and Gilbee the best kick in the business but not widely seen as a player who will win you a grand final. Bring the erstwhile no.1 player in the game, the professionalism of a multiple premiership winner, and invaluable finals (GRAND finals) experience and the kind of influence he will have on the culture of the place and the younger players (especially kpps like Grant) and you have a package worth putting your house on.

YES BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. EVER..............EVER EVER EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!
So what's the point? Wouldn't it be great if our forward line was Dunstall, Lockett, Hudson Coleman, Coventry and G. Ablett Snr?
We just might have a chance

[craigsahibee]

Murphy would be too agile for Williams. Morris would be the perfect matchup for him. Williams would be good on Welsh.
Lake on Minson of course.
Johnno would be a problem, Hargrave would have to do it.
Everitt on Hahn
Gilbee on Aker

Next intra-club practice match sounds like a ripper

[LostDoggy]

YES BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. EVER..............EVER EVER EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!
So what's the point? Wouldn't it be great if our forward line was Dunstall, Lockett, Hudson Coleman, Coventry and G. Ablett Snr?
We just might have a chance


Haha that's the spirit.

J.Brown is more available than you think dd.

[Twodogs]

Next intra-club practice match sounds like a ripper



They always are. Personally I think that the intraclub is one of the highlights of the season. In Guido's first preseason he bitchslapped Libba-Libba's reaction was one of the funniest I've seen on a football field.

[Twodogs]

Forget Scarlett I'd want Egan (has to be fit though)


I'm with the H-man on this one. For a gun fullback Scarlett has too many bags kicked on him. He also doesnt seem to plan b either-if he's getting beaten he doesnt seem to think through what he's doing wrong and fix it.

[hujsh]

I'm with the H-man on this one. For a gun fullback Scarlett has too many bags kicked on him. He also doesnt seem to plan b either-if he's getting beaten he doesnt seem to think through what he's doing wrong and fix it.

And Egan can go up the field.


Look at when Egan got injured. Brown was goal-less or had one goal. Went to Scarlett and got 7

[Twodogs]

And Egan can go up the field.


Look at when Egan got injured. Brown was goal-less or had one goal. Went to Scarlett and got 7



Yeah. For a topline player Scarlett is very quick to drop his head.

[FrediKanoute]

J Brown, thats someone i would be happy for the bulldogs to chase.

Its all hypothetical of course, but yes, J Brown I think would be one player we could safely say would be an asset to our side without overly disrupting its structure. I am struggling to think of how many others playing at the moment would fit that mould. Possibly Lloyd.....

[Twodogs]

Its all hypothetical of course, but yes, J Brown I think would be one player we could safely say would be an asset to our side without overly disrupting its structure. I am struggling to think of how many others playing at the moment would fit that mould. Possibly Lloyd.....



A little bit old, injury prone and selfish (IMO) to fit in at our club I reckon.

[1eyedog]

Its all hypothetical of course, but yes, J Brown I think would be one player we could safely say would be an asset to our side without overly disrupting its structure. I am struggling to think of how many others playing at the moment would fit that mould. Possibly Lloyd.....

They would ask to much of us for him and they would play hard ball after the Aker walk out. If we got Lloyd I would renew our memberships but I would not be attending any games, just like we did when Rawlings came to the club.

[The Pie Man]

They would ask to much of us for him and they would play hard ball after the Aker walk out. If we got Lloyd I would renew our memberships but I would not be attending any games, just like we did when Rawlings came to the club.

Geez he was bad...I just can't put into words how disappointing he was (but I'll try) Worst kick for goal...ever. And that schnoz, the girls name, AND WE GAVE HIM 4 YEARS!!!! We basically traded him to North for some used water bottles and towels, and were happy to do it, probably felt it a good deal.

Horrible, hideous travesty of a footballer...who didn't want to be there anyway.

Lucas on the other hand would give us something - doubt it will happen, but it's worth a look if he doesn't stay at Essendon. I could not handle Lloyd - he's not 'finished' but he's really close to it. He'll play 2-3 good games a year for Essendon for the next few years to justify a spot, and will stink it up most of the rest. He's not the style we want either, way too one dimensional. Lucas can pay both ends.

I'd look at Boyle from Hawthorn.

[hujsh]

Geez he was bad...I just can't put into words how disappointing he was (but I'll try) Worst kick for goal...ever. And that schnoz, the girls name, AND WE GAVE HIM 4 YEARS!!!! We basically traded him to North for some used water bottles and towels, and were happy to do it, probably felt it a good deal.

Horrible, hideous travesty of a footballer...who didn't want to be there anyway.

Lucas on the other hand would give us something - doubt it will happen, but it's worth a look if he doesn't stay at Essendon. I could not handle Lloyd - he's not 'finished' but he's really close to it. He'll play 2-3 good games a year for Essendon for the next few years to justify a spot, and will stink it up most of the rest. He's not the style we want either, way too one dimensional. Lucas can pay both ends.

I'd look at Boyle from Hawthorn.

There's him and maybe 2 other young KP forwards on their list after Roughead and Franklin so I've thought we may pick one up eventually