Trades

[LostDoggy]

According to the paper Richmond are chasing David Mundy (i dont know why) and Warnock from the Dockers. Dockers will have a clean out this year and could be sitting pretty with draft picks. I was thinking it could be a good chance to trade Farren Ray. Maybe get a top 25 pick for him. He is an honest battler, but with his skills I can never see him becoming A grade. Time for a hard decision?

[GVGjr]

I don't think we should trade Ray as we still haven't seen the best of him. I like the run and carry that he can provide and if he improves his kicking a bit he can be a very important player for us.

[The Coon Dog]

Why stop at Farren, there's a few other duds we could offload. Might get a late 2nd rounder for that Cooney hack, maybe package him up with Griffen who can't run or kick & maybe we could secure Ken McGregor in return???

[LostDoggy]

I don't think we should trade Ray as we still haven't seen the best of him. I like the run and carry that he can provide and if he improves his kicking a bit he can be a very important player for us.

If he can improve his kicking? They have been saying that since he was 17. You have to make tough decisions to build a great side

[LostDoggy]

Why stop at Farren, there's a few other duds we could offload. Might get a late 2nd rounder for that Cooney hack, maybe package him up with Griffen who can't run or kick & maybe we could secure Ken McGregor in return???

A rubbish post Coon Dog, type of parish pump i have come to expect from you. IT was an honest question. I obviously hit a nerve. Why settle for a good side, when u can trade players and build something better?
And no to Ken Mcgregor, use the draft pick on another talented youngster.

[GVGjr]

If he can improve his kicking? They have been saying that since he was 17. You have to make tough decisions to build a great side

Sorry Jerry but I don't think it's necessarily a tough decision to let go of Ray for a top 25 pick, its a silly one.

Just about every player could be traded for the right offer but I doubt that we would consider letting him go unless it was for a needs based player.
Right at this moment with the age of Eagleton, West and even Johnson and Akermanis we need to top up our running players rather than let one of them like Ray go for an unproven player. Remember the same guy who selected Ray would be using that very pick to replace him.
We let McMahon go because there was some issues with his attitude but from my understanding Ray is a very hard worker so I would stick with him.

[1eyedog]

I love Faz, think he finds space beautifully and sure his kicking lets him down but he gets alot of the ball on his own, he is a nice link man through the centre of the ground and I don't see the point getting a 20+ pick for him.

[Mofra]

Ray's courage imporved dramatically last year, saw him backign back into numerous packs. He has improved the defensive side of his game and carries the ball very well on the rebound. In modern football it's not so much the disposals you get, but the total metres gained by a player & how he uses the football, and both are improving for Faz despite an interupted pre-season.

[CraigW]

i thought he played well today. cementing his place on our list

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

According to the paper Richmond are chasing David Mundy (i dont know why) and Warnock from the Dockers. Dockers will have a clean out this year and could be sitting pretty with draft picks. I was thinking it could be a good chance to trade Farren Ray. Maybe get a top 25 pick for him. He is an honest battler, but with his skills I can never see him becoming A grade. Time for a hard decision?

I think his running today was crucial for us. Yes he made a couple of errors (he wasn't alone), but his kicking was quite good.
Unless he wants to go home to WA, I can't see us willingly giving him away. Especially as he is now of the age and experience level where we should start to expect him to kick on.

[LostDoggy]

Fev (not Faz) has turned the Blues down again, contract wise. Anyone interested?

[LostDoggy]

I would have him in my team, but i dont want the behavior to come with it and i wouldnt offload many of our players to get him, we have an exciting side.

[bulldogtragic]

Great game today. A few disposal efforts, but god can the boy run and carry. Made all others out there from both sides look slow.

[LostDoggy]

Quite happy with Ray ATM.

His best is yet to come and we'd only lose on any trade we make.

[LostDoggy]

We do have an exciting side -- a GREAT side, almost. But is anyone else on this forum frustrated at our lack of cutting edge when we are killing teams out of the middle? I know this will sound stupid when we are the highest scoring team etc etc etc, but last week against Brisbane we knocked so many balls into the 50 that no one snaffled. Again this week.

I LOVE Big Will, he's GREAT value, but he hasn't snaffled many balls pumped in. Hahn did REALLY REALLY well today with the contested marks, but I can't help but think someone like J.Brown or Fev would kick well over 100 goals in our team with the numbers of inside 50s we get in and how many clearances we win out of the middle. Our midfield is clearly in the top 2 going around, but I have a feeling we don't capitalise as much as we probably could.

[The Coon Dog]

Fev (not Faz) has turned the Blues down again, contract wise. Anyone interested?

Imagine what Carlton would want in return, something like Cooney & our 2nd round draft pick (knowing our first is already spoken for with Ayce Cordy). No, for 4 reasons:

a) It would cost us too much, trade wise.
b) He's a ratbag & leopards don't change their spots.
c) He'd be on top dollar so salary cap becomes a concern.
d) Could see him being a destabilising influence.

[LostDoggy]

We do have an exciting side -- a GREAT side, almost. But is anyone else on this forum frustrated at our lack of cutting edge when we are killing teams out of the middle? I know this will sound stupid when we are the highest scoring team etc etc etc, but last week against Brisbane we knocked so many balls into the 50 that no one snaffled. Again this week.

I LOVE Big Will, he's GREAT value, but he hasn't snaffled many balls pumped in. Hahn did REALLY REALLY well today with the contested marks, but I can't help but think someone like J.Brown or Fev would kick well over 100 goals in our team with the numbers of inside 50s we get in and how many clearances we win out of the middle. Our midfield is clearly in the top 2 going around, but I have a feeling we don't capitalise as much as we probably could.

Thats what Jarrad Grant and Boumann are for. It will just take time.

[hujsh]

Imagine what Carlton would want in return, something like Cooney & our 2nd round draft pick (knowing our first is already spoken for with Ayce Cordy). No, for 4 reasons:

a) It would cost us too much, trade wise.
b) He's a ratbag & leopards don't change their spots.
c) He'd be on top dollar so salary cap becomes a concern.
d) Could see him being a destabilising influence.

That's where the club should be commended for who they recruited. Hudson Welsh Aka are all good people and wouldn't get caught pissing on a wall

[bold-dogg]

Hit a nerve here too, Jerry. Farren Ray is one of my favourite players. And yep, his best is yet to come, A-grader, even. Desperately hope we keep him.

[Dogs 24/7]

Fev (not Faz) has turned the Blues down again, contract wise. Anyone interested?

Interesting but his primary reason for not signing on with Carlton now is that he wants the behaviour bonus included in the 2M plus package rather than a separate clause like they have proposed. In my opinion this makes him an even bigger risk.
Id prefer not to get him because we have worked to hard to get good citizens at the club over a long period. We cannot afford bad press.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Ray is exactly the kind of guy you should try to trade for.

Would get him fairly cheap right before he starts to play his best footy.


That's why Sydney went so hard at Gilbee a few years ago (thank Christ he was still contracted and Eade was clever enough to talk him out of going).

[LostDoggy]

I like Ray.
He looks a bit stunned and overwhelmed at times, but when he runs and backs himself, he does quite well. I noticed today that when he handballed was when he got into trouble. When he kept running and kicked, he made much better decisions, and some talent was on show.
I don't think we should let him go, let him develop a bit more and gain a bit more confidence. I think he'll be playing a role in our future, as he seems very, very fast, and his long arms are a plus! I like him on the wing, adds a lot of run and carry. He could be fairly versatile. Quite good overhead, just makes some stupid decisions (such as giving away a stupid 50, resulting in Collingwood goal!)
He's fairly young, and just hasn't developed as fast as some others. Give him a litte more time.

[hujsh]

Anyone have an idea who could be the interested club? (for Fev)

Looking like winning the colman if Carlton keep their attacking form up

[LostDoggy]

Thats what Jarrad Grant and Boumann are for. It will just take time.

True. Good one.

Patience, grasshopper, as they would say.

[The Underdog]

According to the paper Richmond are chasing David Mundy (i dont know why) and Warnock from the Dockers. Dockers will have a clean out this year and could be sitting pretty with draft picks. I was thinking it could be a good chance to trade Farren Ray. Maybe get a top 25 pick for him. He is an honest battler, but with his skills I can never see him becoming A grade. Time for a hard decision?

I think honest battler is underselling him. His defensive game has improved and he's very good in close often slipping through tight defensive situations to get the ball free. How often do you see him get caught by an opponent? His run today was crucial for us and yes his kicking isn't elite but I think he's taken the Mcmahon role nd given it a harder edge both defensively and in close. I'm not sure getting a speculative pick in the mid 20's is better value than a guy who is currently in our best 22 and still improving.
Oh yeah and Richmond have a pretty good run home and have already ruled themselves out of a priority pick so I wouldn't get too excited about what they have to offer.

[LostDoggy]

According to the paper Richmond are chasing David Mundy (i dont know why) and Warnock from the Dockers. Dockers will have a clean out this year and could be sitting pretty with draft picks. I was thinking it could be a good chance to trade Farren Ray. Maybe get a top 25 pick for him. He is an honest battler, but with his skills I can never see him becoming A grade. Time for a hard decision?

Jerry, I don't always agree with your thinking, however, there is some merit with this suggestion.

We have a strong mid field rotation, with a number of young players at Williamstown who could play there, given the chance.

We could still do with a key forward - no one at Williamstown has the form to play CHF or FF. We're all holding out for Grant to step-up, but he isn't up to it yet, whether due to injury or lack of form/experience. We simply don't have a wealth of big bodied players (or players with strong frames and form) at Willy. Excluding Skipper and Doogs (one at least won't be at the club next year).

Ray, unfortunately, has over the last couple years showed a lot of potential, but has delivered to most of our expectations. One key flaw is his inability to run with the ball and finish off. Can do it extremely well on occasions, but more often, seems to struggle with the delivery. Seems to run a step or 2 too many, and then lacks accuracy and penetration. Today was one of his better days.

It's only mid season, Ray has the opportunity to step up, or he could be considered for trade. He has played over 60 games and would draw a reasonable offer.

I don't recommend we trade Faz; I simply see him as a tradable asset if he doesn't lift his game to level expected by the club.

[GVGjr]

I don't recommend we trade Faz; I simply see him as a tradable asset if he doesn't lift his game to level expected by the club.

As I said a little earlier, everyone is up for a possible trade but I wouldn't trade Ray for a pick in the 20 to 25 mark which is where I think Jerry was heading.
We are going to lose significant experience in the next two seasons and I don't think we need to slash the list of the reasonably experienced players that have yet to reach their best.
We are a genuine contender now, and should be over the next few years, and we are not in a rebuilding phase

[Mantis]

Would not trade Ray for anything less than a top 3 pick, but in reality I wouldn't trade him at all.

The OP'er has a habit of making outlandish statements.

[LostDoggy]

Ray is not worth a top 20 let alone top 3. I think we should have traded him a few years back.
Its his indecision and skills that let him down.

[Scraggers]

but I can't help but think someone like J.Brown or Fev would kick well over 100 goals in our team with the numbers of inside 50s we get in and how many clearances we win out of the middle. Our midfield is clearly in the top 2 going around, but I have a feeling we don't capitalise as much as we probably could.

I think someone like Jonathon Brown or Fevola would make us one dimensional (alot like the Dockers and Pavlich) ... the most exciting thing about our brand of footy is that it is hard to shut down ALL of of goal scoring opportunities. If Jono is not on song, we have Aka, Welsh, Eagleton, Murphy, Cooney (when he's resting) etc etc etc ... Case in point ... Hahn's three goals today. Right now, we have a number of avenues to goal, and i like it that way !!:)

[The Underdog]

That's where the club should be commended for who they recruited. Hudson Welsh Aka are all good people and wouldn't get caught pissing on a wall

Didn't you know that Hudson and Welsh have discipline issues? Just ask the Crows:rolleyes:

[Twodogs]

Before we start packing his bags and organising the farewell party let's stop for a second and think through a couple of things.


1/ Farren broke his leg three weeks before the season started. For a player whose main strength is gut running this is just about the worst injury you can suffer. Every step you take hurts, a lot, and Farren's game involves a lot of hard running. The long lay off during his recovery robbed him of the fitness base he had built up over preseason-a preseason, incidentally, in which he was one of the most impressive performers and he was excellent in the practice matches and NAB cup games before his injury.

2/ Farren applies more physical pressure than most of our players. He gets to contest after contest and makes sure that no oppostion player gets an easy ball.


We have a strong mid field rotation, with a number of young players at Williamstown who could play there, given the chance.

Our midfield is well set for burst runners. Farren isnt a burst runner his strength is endurance-run, run and run until you spew, wipe yourself down and then start running again. Apart from Daniel Cross we just dont have anyone who covers the distance that Farren does.

[craigsahibee]

i thought he played well today. cementing his place on our list

I agree. He was pretty consistent in each quarter today. Keep him.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Before we start packing his bags and organising the farewell party let's stop for a second and think through a couple of things.

1/ Farren broke his leg three weeks before the season started. For a player whose main strength is gut running this is just about the worst injury you can suffer. Every step you take hurts, a lot, and Farren's game involves a lot of hard running. The long lay off during his recovery robbed him of the fitness base he had built up over preseason-a preseason, incidentally, in which he was one of the most impressive performers and he was excellent in the practice matches and NAB cup games before his injury.

2/ Farren applies more physical pressure than most of our players. He gets to contest after contest and makes sure that no oppostion player gets an easy ball.

Our midfield is well set for burst runners. Farren isnt a burst runner his strength is endurance-run, run and run until you spew, wipe yourself down and then start running again. Apart from Daniel Cross we just dont have anyone who covers the distance that Farren does.

I think you've hit the nail on the head TwoDogs, the break in his leg is one that takes a bit of time to get right afterwards. He is an elite athlete, with his running ability, he seems to get shots on goals often in last quarters. His kicking has improved but its an area he needs to keep working on.

I think Eade has developed Farren nicely. His tackling and ball winning stuff has improved, he has added weight to his frame and he's really in the next batch of player a rung down from Griffen who we hope will step up to about Griffens level of play this year. And of course we hope Griff will step up to Cooneys level next year.

[Mofra]

Our midfield is well set for burst runners. Farren isnt a burst runner his strength is endurance-run, run and run until you spew, wipe yourself down and then start running again. Apart from Daniel Cross we just dont have anyone who covers the distance that Farren does.
Boydy could do it but his ability in close & his love of getting his hands dirty mean he is more usefull elsewhere.

Hill will do it in the future (awesome VO2 max capacity apparently) but has at least 2 pre-seasons before he is near his best.

Ray is realistically in our best 22 as a run & carry winger and showed some real dash along the wings today.

[1eyedog]

Didn't you know that Hudson and Welsh have discipline issues? Just ask the Crows:rolleyes:

It wasn't so much that they have discipline problems, by all accounts its because Craig is a bit of a domineering prick and Hudson and Welsh are two that stood up for themselves while the rest of the team grin and bear it.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think someone like Jonathon Brown or Fevola would make us one dimensional (alot like the Dockers and Pavlich)

It's a good point you raise, because I think our 'balance' far out weighs any other. Brown is a superstar but aside from Bradshaw they don't have too many other options to kick goals. If Brown's kept quiet, they struggle to win games. Ditto Fremantle, St. Kilda & Carlton. Hawthorn have even struggled in recent weeks when Franklin hasn't been able to kick his 5 or so goals. I suppose the thing in Hawthorns favour is they also have Roughead who they can look for, but a player like Franklin almost commands the ball every time so it can hurt and dry up the other options when they're not used.

Not having a main target but having several is the future of football and a large reason why we're a top football team this year. Akermanis was beaten badly today but Hahn managed to boot 3 and set up a couple. Welsh was effective too. Murphy always manages to kick a couple even if he's not having a superb game and the likes of Gia, Gilbee, Griffen, Eagleton & Cooney all find themselves in goal kicking positions too.

So really, it's very difficult to cover all our options. This is why I rate our midfield/forward line more dangerous than say Hawthorn. Our midfield kicks plenty of goals, whereas the Hawks rely mainly on Franklin, Roughead & Williams. Geelong is our ultimate challenge because they play a similar style to us that incorporates 8-12 players kicking goals every week and not the same two or three.

[GetDimmaBack]

It wasn't so much that they have discipline problems, by all accounts its because Craig is a bit of a domineering prick and Hudson and Welsh are two that stood up for themselves while the rest of the team grin and bear it.

Interesting that one of the weekend papers carried a short piece on Craig admitting that "...he might have been a little hard..." on the Crowboys last year...

[The Bulldogs Bite]

On Ray, as others have said, his gut running is crucial to this side and particularly on grounds like the MCG where there's always plenty of space. He made some fantastic dashes today that really opened up the play and I thought his skills were good too. He's a good mark overhead but as another said, he gets to a lot of contests to apply pressure, so to trade him would hurt our dynamics as we haven't got a lot of endurance runners - hence our 10m spurts or so of real quality football. That's OK as long as we have the balance, if Ray goes, it leaves us short.

Over the next two years Hill will overtake Eagletons position on the wing, and it's well noted Hill's VO2 max capacity is one of (if not the) best in the club. To have these two running up and down the wings will be deadly, especially with Hills aerial ability.

[1eyedog]

Interesting that one of the weekend papers carried a short piece on Craig admitting that "...he might have been a little hard..." on the Crowboys last year...

Didn't see it, but from unreliable accounts I must say I have heard Craig struggles on the personal side with his players.

[lowedog]

Faz was a top 5 pick. You dont too many of them. Poor old Tim Walsh was number4, yet couldnt get out there, so every game he gets is only going to improve his future value, to the club, either as a 250 game player or as a trade in the future. Either way he isnt on the trade radar. Guys like, and I think he's the unluckiest player on our list, but big Skip is probably worth a 3rd rnd pick, and then you'd look at some of the younger guys that have genuine value, ie Addison, Hill or even Higgins. Dont shout me down, because when the GC17 team starts getting 15 of the first 20 picks, they are going to trade some of them. You don't get something for nothing and we are going to have to trade some players, and I guarantee they will chase a couple of the ex GC boys in Hahn and Williams, so we need to be proactive. In saying that as well, I really don't want to trade anyone of those players i mentioned and hope they dont but we all know tat we can't keep them all.

[bornadog]

Faz was a top 5 pick. You dont too many of them. Poor old Tim Walsh was number4, yet couldnt get out there, so every game he gets is only going to improve his future value, to the club, either as a 250 game player or as a trade in the future. Either way he isnt on the trade radar. Guys like, and I think he's the unluckiest player on our list, but big Skip is probably worth a 3rd rnd pick, and then you'd look at some of the younger guys that have genuine value, ie Addison, Hill or even Higgins. Dont shout me down, because when the GC17 team starts getting 15 of the first 20 picks, they are going to trade some of them. You don't get something for nothing and we are going to have to trade some players, and I guarantee they will chase a couple of the ex GC boys in Hahn and Williams, so we need to be proactive. In saying that as well, I really don't want to trade anyone of those players i mentioned and hope they dont but we all know tat we can't keep them all.

We know we have to drop 5 players to bring in 5 more draftees. Players under the pump at the end of this year are:

OShea - late starter to footy from Qld, needs to find footy smarts.

Skipper - Injuries, too short for ruck, not really a KPP. Would love to see him out there but can't see it.

McDougall - has to show something in the next two months or luck has to go his way (hate to say, but an injury to a tall so he can get a game)

Street - again unlucky and again needs luck to get a game (see above)

Lynch - Hate to drop him, may have to either use as trade bait or rookie list him.

If West retires, then there may be a spot for one of the above, preference would be to keep Lynch at least another season.

Comment on Ray, too good to let him go. His main weakness is decision making and disposal skills.

[Topdog]

1 thing I noticed with Ray yesterday that I believe was crucial is that he started kicking with his right foot. There was 1 time in the last quarter where I cringed because he went on his left side but then he straightened up and used his right. Kick hit one of our guys right on the chest.

He is a very damaging player when he thinks it through.

[Go_Dogs]

1 thing I noticed with Ray yesterday that I believe was crucial is that he started kicking with his right foot. There was 1 time in the last quarter where I cringed because he went on his left side but then he straightened up and used his right. Kick hit one of our guys right on the chest.

He is a very damaging player when he thinks it through.

Agreed. I tend to think that his kicking issues are mainly at top pace and under pressure, which therefore effects his decision making, and thus his execution can sometimes look poor.

He's demonstrated his good ball use a number of times over his career, just needs to be more consistent in picking the correct option and playing within his limitations.

Certainly wouldn't be looking to trade him, as although he has a great motor as his main strength, his toughness, over head ability and defensive efforts are also going very well and if he continues to work hard and improve on his game he'll definitely be a very good player.

[LostDoggy]

Ray is very high on the mantle in terms of being wanted by the club the only way he would go is IF he wanted to leave off of his own accord. Cant see that happening anytime soon. Club has invested way to much into him.

[1eyedog]

1 thing I noticed with Ray yesterday that I believe was crucial is that he started kicking with his right foot. There was 1 time in the last quarter where I cringed because he went on his left side but then he straightened up and used his right. Kick hit one of our guys right on the chest.

He is a very damaging player when he thinks it through.

I think he's going to be a very exciting player, Faz gets one of those murmurs through the crowd when he gets the ball, you know, that excited rumble. Some of those rumbles are critical, but I think most are good.

[Dancin' Douggy]

According to the paper Richmond are chasing David Mundy (i dont know why) and Warnock from the Dockers. Dockers will have a clean out this year and could be sitting pretty with draft picks. I was thinking it could be a good chance to trade Farren Ray. Maybe get a top 25 pick for him. He is an honest battler, but with his skills I can never see him becoming A grade. Time for a hard decision?

In my opinion this is a perfectly reasonable post.
Personally I think we should keep Ray but I can't stand it when people come out with all guns blazing just because someones asked a question. It would be fair to assume Farren's kicking skills can be a worry and no one could honestly say he's playing like a number 4 draft pick and is 'untouchable'.

But any one can see he has ENORMOUS potential. He thinks outside the square and half the time it's too lateral for our own players to keep up with. But as he matures and as his team mates get a feel for the way he plays he's a very dangerous weapon to have.

I think we should keep him but thanks for raising an interesting point of discussion Jerry.

[Twodogs]

In my opinion this is a perfectly reasonable post.
Personally I think we should keep Ray but I can't stand it when people come out with all guns blazing just because someones asked a question. It would be fair to assume Farren's kicking skills can be a worry and no one could honestly say he's playing like a number 4 draft pick and is 'untouchable'.

But any one can see he has ENORMOUS potential. He thinks outside the square and half the time it's too lateral for our own players to keep up with. But as he matures and as his team mates get a feel for the way he plays he's a very dangerous weapon to have.

I think we should keep him but thanks for raising an interesting point of discussion Jerry.


Farren isnt untouchable but would you be happy is we did this deal?


. Maybe get a top 25 pick for him.


I certainly wouldnt.



This part of the OP is where it starts to verge into fantasy;


He is an honest battler, but with his skills I can never see him becoming A grade.

Frankly referring to Ray as an 'honest battler' and inferring he has no skills is an insult to him and the only reason for making a statement is to provoke a negative response.

Either that or it displays an astonishing ignorance about football. For instance to say that skills, and by skills I assume that Jerry means marking and disposal, is the sole criteria to judge how valuable a player is overloooks about 75% of what a player needs to able to do. Besides Farren is probably the best overhead mark for players of his size on our list Daniel Cross excepted.

Actually let's compare Crossy with Farren. Both great endurance runners, both good overhead, both good tacklers. Crossy was drafted in 2000 and really didnt have an impact until late 2004, with 2005 as his breakout year-that's five years on the list before he started producing consistant football. Farren was drafted in 2003 and based on his preseason form before his injury he was set to stamp his place in the team-in his fifth year. From the first time I saw Crossy there was no way I would have taken a mid 20s draft pick for him. Sure he had trouble with his kicking but the guy had other quailties that more than made up for his kicking.

[Scorlibo]

Farren's run and carry can be very important to the team and I think he has improved in most facets of his game, but not his kicking. It looks to me to be the same issue with his method which it has always been and that is that he lets the ball go too early and it moves too much on its way down. Why hasn't this been addressed? Five seasons now and still the same awful drop :o. Nevertheless he is still a player well worth keeping because of his run and reading of the play.

[LostDoggy]

Street won't be traded/delisted. He'd only go if he wanted to get a chance somewhere else. He'd be playing AFL football if he was at another club. Just go down to the VFL and watch how much he dominates. Ruckman peak between 27-32. This is where he is now. I sleep a lot better at night knowing that if Hudson or Minson go down we have an AFL ready ruckman to take their place.

[LostDoggy]

Farren isnt untouchable but would you be happy is we did this deal?


I certainly wouldnt.

This part of the OP is where it starts to verge into fantasy;

Frankly referring to Ray as an 'honest battler' and inferring he has no skills is an insult to him and the only reason for making a statement is to provoke a negative response.

Either that or it displays an astonishing ignorance about football. For instance to say that skills, and by skills I assume that Jerry means marking and disposal, is the sole criteria to judge how valuable a player is overloooks about 75% of what a player needs to able to do. Besides Farren is probably the best overhead mark for players of his size on our list Daniel Cross excepted.

Actually let's compare Crossy with Farren. Both great endurance runners, both good overhead, both good tacklers. Crossy was drafted in 2000 and really didnt have an impact until late 2004, with 2005 as his breakout year-that's five years on the list before he started producing consistant football. Farren was drafted in 2003 and based on his preseason form before his injury he was set to stamp his place in the team-in his fifth year. From the first time I saw Crossy there was no way I would have taken a mid 20s draft pick for him. Sure he had trouble with his kicking but the guy had other quailties that more than made up for his kicking.

Told you he was an honest battler. 15 clubs thought the same.

[westdog54]

Told you he was an honest battler. 15 clubs thought the same.

I'm sure there will be plenty of people to point out when you've been wrong on this forum, as there have been PLENTY of such occurences. I'm still waiting for your list of 6 players to delist, as well as the 6 you'd draft. But hey, you wouldn't want to risk saying something and being wrong about it.

Gutless wonder. Nothing more, nothing less.

[LostDoggy]

I'm sure there will be plenty of people to point out when you've been wrong on this forum, as there have been PLENTY of such occurences. I'm still waiting for your list of 6 players to delist, as well as the 6 you'd draft. But hey, you wouldn't want to risk saying something and being wrong about it.

Gutless wonder. Nothing more, nothing less.

Street,Skipper,West,EAgleton,Mcdougall,Ray and Oshea.
I wouldnt know which 6 kids to draft, i havent seen them all play.

[LostDoggy]

jerry, are you really a Bulldogs supporter?

Maybe more than you CoonDog. We all show it in different ways.

[Desipura]

Told you he was an honest battler. 15 clubs thought the same.
Geez thats childish. Its like me bringing up a post I commented how we should at all costs should draft Franklin with our 1st pick.
I also said that Daniel Cross would not make it as a footballer due to his lack of pace and foot skills.

[bornadog]

Street,Skipper,West,EAgleton,Mcdougall,Ray and Oshea.
I wouldnt know which 6 kids to draft, i havent seen them all play.

OShea is 19 years old, 192cm and still learning the game. At minimum, he should be rookied.

Skipper has been given a new contract and Eagle has another year to run. We can't afford to pay them out.

[westdog54]

Street,Skipper,West,EAgleton,Mcdougall,Ray and Oshea.
I wouldnt know which 6 kids to draft, i havent seen them all play.

Three questions.

1. Why O'Shea? Only 2 years on the list, project player. You'd be delisting him for a bloke who'd be pick 96. What's the point?

2. Who is our back-up ruckman going to be if Hudson or Minson are injured?

3. Why not reply to my post at the time, rather than wait until:
4 of those decisions have been made for you
Skipper has signed a contract
Its already been clearly established that Eagleton is under contract and would have to be paid out?


Why are you so keen to write off my club (I won't call it your club because I don't believe it is) when it has reached a prelim final this year and has plenty of room for growth next year?

What will we get next year out of picks 64, 80 and 96 that we won't get out of Eagleton, Skipper and O'Shea?

[Scraggers]

What will we get next year out of picks 64, 80 and 96 that we won't get out of Eagleton, Skipper and O'Shea?

I asked myself that very same question ... If we did drop Eagleton for example and pay him out we would only pick up a kid with pick 64 (or a fringe player in the PSD) that would not benefit us in 2009. Whereas Eagleton would probably play all 22+ games and be a contributor ... Therefore logic says forget pick 64 and keep Eagleton one more season.

BUT ... pick 64 could develop there have been hundreds of players (excluding those taken under the old Father/Son rule) that were chosen after pick 64 that have been stars ...

So the question is ... do we drop Eagleton / Skipper / O'Shea and lose a 22+ game contributor / fringe player and take a chance on a post pick 64 player ???

The only reason I am leaning towards saying yes, is the Super-Draw GC17 get next year.

Based solely on this I think we take a punt and drop someone (and only one more) to use pick 64.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I asked myself that very same question ... If we did drop Eagleton for example and pay him out we would only pick up a kid with pick 64 (or a fringe player in the PSD) that would not benefit us in 2009. Whereas Eagleton would probably play all 22+ games and be a contributor ... Therefore logic says forget pick 64 and keep Eagleton one more season.

BUT ... pick 64 could develop there have been hundreds of players (excluding those taken under the old Father/Son rule) that were chosen after pick 64 that have been stars ...

So the question is ... do we drop Eagleton / Skipper / O'Shea and lose a 22+ game contributor / fringe player and take a chance on a post pick 64 player ???

The only reason I am leaning towards saying yes, is the Super-Draw GC17 get next year.

Based solely on this I think we take a punt and drop someone (and only one more) to use pick 64.

Eagleton & Skipper are both safe. Eagleton because he has a year to run on his contract and for the fact that with Ray gone, we're probably going to need at the very least some 'back-up' in the running department. Skipper was re-signed as a back-up to Hudson/Minson, so he too will be safe for another season.

Wight/O'Shea are the two in danger I would think, and probably only because of the compromised draft next year. For that reason, one of them should be sacrificed. I haven't seen enough of O'Shea to judge, but there's a fair argument for Wight.

[LostDoggy]

Some contributors are suggesting that Eagle will be a contributor next year. IMO, Eagle is not even good enough now to be a depth player at this stage of his career. He is about two years past his peak, and half a year past being an asset and has moved, I think, clearly into the liability column. It's not even so much that he doesn't do what he used to be able to, but that his touches actually lead to turnovers or he keeps missing those simple shots at goal that a player in his position should be able to nail regularly.

I know Eagle-bashing is old, but I've always been one to admire what he brought to the team while understanding his faults, but the "back-up run and carry player now that Farren is gone" argument does not fly.

The only way I can see Eagle truly contributing to the team next year is via a Libba-like thorough reinvention of his role. He does have a big engine, not that much pace anymore, and has some nuggety facets to his personality. In and under (would be a huge change but desperate players do deperate things) /tagger/spiritual leader. Otherwise, no good.

[LostDoggy]

I saw Liberatore and Eagleton is no Liberatore!:D

[LostDoggy]

Not saying Eagleton is Libba -- just that he needs to undergo a similarly drastic reinvention to add any value to the list.

Ps. We all saw Libba.