Tassie or Sydney

[Twodogs]

No brainer from where I sit. Tassie is a traditional football state that needs shoring up. AFL must look after it's own backyard and ensure it's strong before it starts to grow into areas that have to be developed.



If we ignore Tassie we'll lose it as an AFL area and we cant afford to do that.

[LostDoggy]

Agree, but the AFL interprets the facts differently:

Tassie is ALREADY an AFL state, and they get Hawthorn games down there to keep them occupied, while West Sydney, a "growth corridor" has no AFL presence and will be snapped up by soccer and league if we don't get a foothold in asap, thus, higher priority.

[Sockeye Salmon]

They keep telling us that Tassie can't support an AFL team.

They also say that they are prepared to spend $100M to get the team from West Sydney up and going.

Here's an idea. Give the $100M to Tassie to invest. They could use $8-$10M a year and their investment could still keep up with inflation.

$7M from the AFL's annual distribution that all clubs get.

Instead of having to find the $22-25M the AFL keep going on about (forgetting about the annual distribution when it suits them) they would only have to find $7-9M.

[craigsahibee]

2 more teams equals 1 more game on TV.

The TV audience in Sydney is far greater than the audience in Tassie.

Tasmanians will continue to watch footy on TV no matter where the game is. Sydneysiders are a fickle bunch and will not sit down to watch a game that does not involve one of their own.

The AFL's largest source of revenue is TV rights.

Networks will be drooling at the thought of increasing their ratings in the Sydney market through the addition of a 2nd team out of Sydney thus pumping up the deal even further.

Tassie's best chance of a team is through the relocation of a Melbourne based club and that will only happen if the CBF (competitive balance fund) / ASD (or whatever it's called) is reviewed and watered down over a number of years where some clubs are threatened with extinction or relocation.

I'm not naive enough to think that because we are enjoying some on field success this year and the redevelopment is progressing that we will be immune from this.

Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon & possibly Richmond have enough support to confidently believe they could stay in Melbourne. The others, and that includes us will have to continue to maximise memberships and corporate sponsorships just to survive. This is not a groundbreaking new fact, but it just highlights the importance complacency plays in the decline of any organisation.

[Twodogs]

Tasmanians will continue to watch footy on TV no matter where the game is. Sydneysiders are a fickle bunch and will not sit down to watch a game that does not involve one of their own.



This is where I reckon the argument falls down. Tasmanians wont just sit down and watch if we continue to treat them with contempt. They'll switch off and something else will take their interest.



We cant just assume that Tassie are 100% onboard. And I cant see AFL continuing at it's current standard without Tasmania's input of players, crowds and money. We ignore our backyard and chase magic Sydney beans at the games peril.

[gohardorgohome]

I go to Sydney about 25 times a year for work, so I feel like I have a good feel for the place.

Play the Swans at Homebush every home game. That will give all in Sydney the chance to see AFL footy. A Western Sydney team will never work. Too many closed minded Nuff Nuff Rugby Leave Fans and migrants who have no interest in sports.

Tassie is a footy state. The Green Bay Packers are a sucessful NFL team in a city of 100000 people . Cant see why tassie should not be included.

They just need to get the North Tassie v South Tessie situation sorted out.

[craigsahibee]

This is where I reckon the argument falls down. Tasmanians wont just sit down and watch if we continue to treat them with contempt. They'll switch off and something else will take their interest.

We cant just assume that Tassie are 100% onboard. And I cant see AFL continuing at it's current standard without Tasmania's input of players, crowds and money. We ignore our backyard and chase magic Sydney beans at the games peril.

There will still be net audience gain from Sydney with an extra team based there even if the good folk down in Tassie switch off.

Personally, I would love to see a team from Tassie in the AFL before West Sydney, but like David Smorgon says, whether we like it or not, it's a business now more than a game.

[ledge]

Gohardorgohome you hit the nail on the head, its the 2 competitions they have down there that irks the AFL, if they cant sort that out how can they possibly organize a real footy team, remember the siren trouble down there?

[The Pie Man]

There clearly would be no trouble generating interest in Tassie to support an AFL club - in Western Sydney on the other hand, they not only put the future of the new club in jeapordy, but also the future of the existing club (in the Swans) How many Swans fans would possibly defect?

Article in the Age earlier this week about the crowd at ANZ stadium for the Collingwood game, using that as a justification for a new Western Sydney team or Sydney would fill the SCG every week if they were all Swans fans. I personally find that a pretty long bow to draw, I can't see a Western Sydney team getting much support at all - they should be thankful the Swans are up and going and have a base to work from - leave it at that.

Gold Coast and Tassie I 100% support

[Sedat]

I go to Sydney about 25 times a year for work, so I feel like I have a good feel for the place.

Play the Swans at Homebush every home game. That will give all in Sydney the chance to see AFL footy. A Western Sydney team will never work. Too many closed minded Nuff Nuff Rugby Leave Fans and migrants who have no interest in sports.

Tassie is a footy state. The Green Bay Packers are a sucessful NFL team in a city of 100000 people . Cant see why tassie should not be included.

They just need to get the North Tassie v South Tessie situation sorted out.
QFT. Western Sydney is an AFL wasteland. Throwing good money after bad. This is dyed-in-the-wool League heartland and will always be. Suburbs like Bella Vista, Blacktown, Campbelltown, Auburn, Penrith and Parramatta will never embrace AFL - actually pretty much any suburb west of Balmain except for Pennant Hills.

The 2-3 million people that live west of Sydney are a mirage seducing the AFL.

[Pembleton]

Tassie is a footy state. The Green Bay Packers are a sucessful NFL team in a city of 100000 people . Cant see why tassie should not be included.


The Packers have the very committed support of the whole NFL mad state of Wisconsin. Wisconsin's population is about 5.5 million, Tassies is a bit under 500k. They are also one of the most recognisable brands in the huge American sporting market, established over the course of 90odd years. I am not sure if Tassie could support an AFL club, but either way the Packers aren't a good analogy.

I don't really see the point of AFL expansion. The AFL doesn't have shareholders looking for dividends, so purely making more money isn't a good enough reason. However, wouldn't pretty much all of the objections being raised here about why West Sydney will never embrace a team have equally applied to Sydney as a whole 25 years ago?

On your basic point TwoDogs, the AFL has increased it's presence in Tassie with increasing numbers of games over the past (insert number, i'm not exactly sure) years or so. So, I think its a bit of a stretch to say the AFL is ignoring it. That is not to say they shouldn't be doing more there either, but they have been putting some work into the state for awhile.

How big would a Tassie club be? I'd be pretty annoyed if they bankrolled a smallish expansion team there under the guise of looking after footy heartland whilst the true heartland of the league, Melbourne, has a number of clubs with near 30k paid up members being pushed into playing 'home games' all over the country.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Has a 2nd franchise ever worked without a ready-made supporter base?

Port Adelaide did - but they've had a successful club for 120+ years.
Freo has - despite the basketcase they have become - but East and South Freo have hated the rest of Perth for a century as well.

Look at basketball. North Melbourne Giants, South East Melbourne Magic, Victoria Titans, South Dragons... no-one cares. Supporters don't switch clubs without a bloody good reason (like Port getting their own side).

Anyone in Sydney - from anywhere in Sydney - who has an interest in AFL are already on the Swans. Why would they swap sides because another team is closer to home? I live in Ashburton, surely I should have jumped on board Hawthorn or Melbourne by now?

Will a 2nd Melbourne soccer team work? Why would anyone already on the Victory swap over? Will all these 1,000's of new supporters suddenly jump up from somewhere?

[Pembleton]

Has a 2nd franchise ever worked without a ready-made supporter base?

Port Adelaide did - but they've had a successful club for 120+ years.
Freo has - despite the basketcase they have become - but East and South Freo have hated the rest of Perth for a century as well.

Look at basketball. North Melbourne Giants, South East Melbourne Magic, Victoria Titans, South Dragons... no-one cares. Supporters don't switch clubs without a bloody good reason (like Port getting their own side).

Anyone in Sydney - from anywhere in Sydney - who has an interest in AFL are already on the Swans. Why would they swap sides because another team is closer to home? I live in Ashburton, surely I should have jumped on board Hawthorn or Melbourne by now?

Will a 2nd Melbourne soccer team work? Why would anyone already on the Victory swap over? Will all these 1,000's of new supporters suddenly jump up from somewhere?

I don't think the NBL is a good example because its a league where the whole comp has had the arse fall out of it. When the sport was going well, 3 teams in Melbourne were going well. If the AFL ends up in the situation the NBL is in, it is a given that the expansion teams, and many others, will be in all sorts of trouble.

A second Melbourne franchise in the A-League will be successful. It won't have the dominant crowd (relative to the rest of the comp) numbers of the Vics, but it will be fine. Some of the new club's crowd will be people who simply want want to watch more of the sport. Not everyone follows a sport on the back of a really passionate attachment to a team, and even of those who do, a lot of people who love the sport regularly attend games not involving their team. Also, a lot of people with a passing interest in the MV might be attracted to what is likely to be a relative underdog. I can only imagine that the West Sydney team will get some support like that.

The whole A-League is so new, and the measure of success is so much lower, that its not a good analogy for a second Sydney team in the AFL either. Also, the league itself is currently so small that new teams in itself will improve the competition, and that is not so in the AFL. I just don't believe the general view that 'it will never work'. Look at how the Swans were going 15 years ago, and there was plenty to suggest back then that after a decade iof trying in Sydney there was no future up there. If the AFL puts the effort and money into it, then i think the second Sydney team will eventually be healthy, and i think it will be an easier path than it was for the Swans. Do i think it is worth the financial cost and effort? Not really. I'm not sure why we should give a stuff about whether Australian Football is popular anywhere else, or more popular than this sport or that one. The AFL seems obsessed by this stuff though.

[The Pie Man]

Has a 2nd franchise ever worked without a ready-made supporter base?

Port Adelaide did - but they've had a successful club for 120+ years.
Freo has - despite the basketcase they have become - but East and South Freo have hated the rest of Perth for a century as well.

Look at basketball. North Melbourne Giants, South East Melbourne Magic, Victoria Titans, South Dragons... no-one cares. Supporters don't switch clubs without a bloody good reason (like Port getting their own side).

Anyone in Sydney - from anywhere in Sydney - who has an interest in AFL are already on the Swans. Why would they swap sides because another team is closer to home? I live in Ashburton, surely I should have jumped on board Hawthorn or Melbourne by now?

Will a 2nd Melbourne soccer team work? Why would anyone already on the Victory swap over? Will all these 1,000's of new supporters suddenly jump up from somewhere?


Completely agree with the bolded points, 100%

In the A-League, the only 2nd Melb team that could (in my eyes) work is one with a link to South Melbourne (as dangerous as that is) as they have a pre-existing fan base that aren't too fond of the Victory - maybe a few will defect if they get the name and guernsey right, but not enough to sustain a new club

Sydney Swans are exactly the same - to suggest people were at ANZ Stadium last weekend aren't necessarily fans of the Swans and could maybe jump on a new team is total BS in my view. It can also destablise and divide existing support for the Swans, not a good idea.

BTW - I follow the South Dragons - scared they'll fold though for the very reasons Sockeye mentioned

[hujsh]

This may be like the GNR album 'chinese democracy.' No matter how much money you pump into them you'll always be waiting for a final result (eg fanbase & stable club)

[LostDoggy]

Just following this discussion to its logical end --

What is the upper limit for numbers of clubs in the AFL? We have 16 now, expanding to 18. What 25, 30?

[LostDoggy]

The AFL's largest source of revenue is TV rights.

People need to realise that its the TV channels that run AFL not Demetriou and his mates.
Is it cheaper to televise games from Tassie or from Sydney?
People from Tassie will watch the games either way.

[Dry Rot]

People need to realise that its the TV channels that run AFL not Demetriou and his mates.
Is it cheaper to televise games from Tassie or from Sydney?
People from Tassie will watch the games either way.


2 more teams equals 1 more game on TV.

The TV audience in Sydney is far greater than the audience in Tassie.

Tasmanians will continue to watch footy on TV no matter where the game is. Sydneysiders are a fickle bunch and will not sit down to watch a game that does not involve one of their own.

The AFL's largest source of revenue is TV rights.

Networks will be drooling at the thought of increasing their ratings in the Sydney market through the addition of a 2nd team out of Sydney thus pumping up the deal even further.



Seems pretty simple - TV rights and dollars.

However Sedat is right that western Sydney could be a mirage - it's the heartland of NRL.

[LostDoggy]

I feel sorry for the AFL supporters in Tassie- it's money before passion, i'm afraid.
Surely they can't leave Tassie out in the cold much longer.