Game Day - Bulldogs vs Cats

[GVGjr]

Well this is the one we have all been waiting for. This is the discussion thread for todays game against the all conquering Geelong.

I wonder how the wetter conditions and the home court advantage will impact our performance. My heart says we will win a close one but I am unlikely to put any money on it.

Johnson to get both the first goal and Giansiracusa the BOG honors.

For us to win I think we need a few goals from Brad Johnson.

[Topdog]

Aker first goal and Boyd with most possies.

[Rocket Science]

No team, even one of Geelong's calibre, can expect to carry on regardless with key outs. We're a big, big chance this arvo...provided we come to play.

I think we will.

Dogs by 21.

Cooney with our first major.

[Go_Dogs]

Ray first major. Griffen BOG.

Really, really looking forward to this one. I'm getting sweaty palms. I think we have more match-winners, so if we play hard, get our defensive and pressure game right, we should get over the line. Either way, I'm not going to be too fussed about the result, as long as we play well and give it all.

[Sockeye Salmon]

For some horrible reason I think we're going to get spanked.

[wimberga]

Dogs by 15
Hahn first goal
Morris BOG

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 11pts
First Goal Murphy
BOG Cooney

[Dry Rot]

What's the weather like down at Geelong? Raining?

[The Coon Dog]

Cooney first goal & the Cats by 26 points.

[DOG GOD]

Hahn first goal for dogs....cats by 33 pts (unfortunately)

[The Underdog]

For some horrible reason I think we're going to get spanked.

Because you saw us play last week perhaps.
I'm not sure, we've risen to every challenge this year but Geelong are the best side of the past 18 months by a long way and despite the loss of Ablett and Ling have incredible depth and discipline.

Cooney first goal streaming out of the middle after a couple of bounces.
Cross BOG.
Dogs by 1 point after a slow start. (that's my optimistic prediction:o)

[1eyedog]

First Dogs goal to Welsh
Boyd will play the best for us
I don't reckon we'll get over the line today but my fingers are crossed.

[craigsahibee]

Minson first goal.

12 points our way.

But most of all, no freakin' injuries

[Mantis]

Big test to see how far we have come.

Really looking forward to how we as a team and individuals within the team stand up to the pressure that will be applied to us by Geelong.

Think the Cats might by a bit to good, but think it will be a close game. (under 3 goals)

Just heard that Gamble isn't playing in the curtain raiser so will probably come in for Kelly??

[LostDoggy]

Geelong
Saturday
A partly cloudy day with a little rain, mostly falling late afternoon and
evening. North to northeasterly wind gradually freshening.

[LostDoggy]

dogs by a point

only 5860 seconds left
http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/fullscreen.html?mode=m&year=2008&month=7&day=19&hour=14&min=10&sec=00&p0=152

[Rocket Science]

Just heard that Gamble isn't playing in the curtain raiser so will probably come in for Kelly??

Yep...No Gamble, no Hawkins in the Geelong ressies team...though only the former was named in the Cats emergencies.

[LostDoggy]

An exciting day for the club to be playing 1 v 2 at this stage of the season.

Lets hope we put up a great showing today against a very talented team.

[Scraggers]

Cooney first goal ... unfortunately, Geelong by 31 points

[LostDoggy]

Geelong change
Out: Wojac apparently
In: Gamble

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Welsh first goal and Aker BOG.

He loves the big stage

Dogs by 21 points

[Go_Dogs]

Geelong change
Out: Wojac apparently
In: Gamble

Good news for us (if true), another of their best movers out.

[cinder]

I feel so nervous!!
:S :S

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Good news for us (if true), another of their best movers out.

I'd rather he play (along with Ling/Ablett if they were fit), we need to start playing sides at their best - especially one like Geelong, because we'll more than likely meet them come Finals time.

[Scorlibo]

All even at the half. Loved DFA and Harbs' work, 4 and 5 tackles respectively and leading the way. Umpiring so far has been awful both ways. CARNADOGGIES!!

[LostDoggy]

How many times have I said against quality opposition our small half forward line would break down? Cant pin point passes under pressure like this.

[Dry Rot]

So much for our much vaunted small forwardline.

[Go_Dogs]

So much for our much vaunted small forwardline.

Nothing wrong with the forward line, bad decisions, poor execution and terrible umpiring.

What a sh!tty day.

We're good enough to beat this mob, don't you worry about that. Keep the faith supporters and players, you're better than this, and we'll make them pay in September.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Just could not do it for 4 Quarters. You can't beat Geelong by putting in a good effort for 2 quarters.
Gees the cats are scary good, and we've got some work to do to meet the benchmark they've set.
I'm very disappointed especially with our last quarter effort. We seem to have dropped our heads, discipline and skills have fallen away with the relentless pressure of the Cats.
I hope this hurts the boys hard, and they refocus.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Nothing wrong with the forward line, bad decisions, poor execution and terrible umpiring.

What a sh!tty day.

We're good enough to beat this mob, don't you worry about that. Keep the faith supporters and players, you're better than this, and we'll make them pay in September.

I think we're deluding ourelves if we think on current showing we're within cooee of the Cats. The umpiring hasn't had any effect on the result.

[cinder]

*sigh*

[Scorlibo]

They should be very disappointed with this last quarter. To have put in such a good contest for three quarters to give themselves a chance in the last . . . disgusting. Cooney and Akermanis haven't done anything in the last quarter. Our forwardline has been spanked. So depressed right now.

[Dry Rot]

Nothing wrong with the forward line,

Disagree. Seemed to be no viable leading targets all day. Do agree that delivery and efforts around the HF line were poor.

At least we now know who the best team is.

[ledge]

Gia seems to be the bloke left one out in our forward line when it goes into the square, would have thought Welsh would be a better option to do that with body strength, probably would have marked 95% of them.
Watching it on tv its hard to see whats going on down there i must admit, but it looks like we were just bombing it a lot of times, i dont mind doing that but Gia as the one to take the marks??
We need a tall marking forward, it stuck out today bigtime.

[Rach]

Very disappointed with the 2nd half, especially the last quarter. Who would've thought the score would be all even at half time, and then blown out like it did. :(
Also, I think the umpires need to get their measuring tape out. Some "not 15" metre calls looked pretty dodgy.

[LostDoggy]

Wow

Anyone else feel like you've had your heart ripped out and tredded on?

Mooney didnt drop a freakin mark, hes a freak.

I broke my phone in frustrations with Harbrow...his tackles were great but him and Tiller are not in our best 22, and showed that today..maybe be harsh but we missed defensive pressure from Tommy Gun & Callan badly.

[Scorlibo]

Gia seems to be the bloke left one out in our forward line when it goes into the square, would have thought Welsh would be a better option to do that with body strength, probably would have marked 95% of them.
Watching it on tv its hard to see whats going on down there i must admit, but it looks like we were just bombing it a lot of times, i dont mind doing that but Gia as the one to take the marks??
We need a tall marking forward, it stuck out today bigtime.

Hurry Jarrad, hurry.

[DOG GOD]

Pretty bad last quarter that. dear oh dear, the cats really stepped up when they needed to, and looked too strong around the clearances.Thought our pressure and tackling was really good for the 1st half but we just couldnt sustain it. ALOT of players had quite days especailly Hahn and aker, while Murph didnt do much either. Our backline busted their guts considering the cats had 21 inside 50's to 8 in that last qtr.

The guys really need to get their focus back coz after today, next weeks game againt the blues looms as a danger match that we CANNOT afford to drop.

Everitt on Gamble was a nightmare match-up.

[Scorlibo]

Very disappointed with the 2nd half, especially the last quarter. Who would've thought the score would be all even at half time, and then blown out like it did. :(
Also, I think the umpires need to get their measuring tape out. Some "not 15" metre calls looked pretty dodgy.

Yea I was soooo angry at those calls. Umpiring was very bad but at the same time it didn't lose us the game.


Wow

Anyone else feel like you've had your heart ripped out and tredded on?

Mooney didnt drop a freakin mark, hes a freak.

I broke my phone in frustrations with Harbrow...his tackles were great but him and Tiller are not in our best 22, and showed that today..maybe be harsh but we missed defensive pressure from Tommy Gun & Callan badly.

Yes I do feel like I've had my heart ripped out and treaded on

Yea Harbrow went missing in the second half and Tiller apart from a couple of nice spoils on Mooney had a bad game. For all the talk of who Geelong was missing it didn't make much of a difference in the end with Gamble, Kelly and Prismall all having good games. It was the players out for us that made most difference.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

They should be very disappointed with this last quarter. To have put in such a good contest for three quarters to give themselves a chance in the last . . . disgusting. Cooney and Akermanis haven't done anything in the last quarter. Our forwardline has been spanked. So depressed right now.

Aker has been very poor all day. Has he cracked the sads since being told off about doing the handstand? He's playing crap football. No pressure, looks dis-interested, poor decision making/skills. He needs to shape up, and fast.

Hahn was fit? You're lying. He did absolutely nothing again today. No pressure at all and this combined with Aker meant Geelong had a free ride across half back.

Lake was horrible all day. Mooney's a good player but nothing more. Lake's beaten some of the best forwards in the comp, yet he was spanked today. He turned the ball over regularly when he had it too. Indecisive too and had to rush a few behinds because of it. Perhaps his worst game for the club.

Morris was equally as bad. Constantly playing from behind he was out-played by a thousand country miles.

I could rant on more, but it's pointless. The defense was disgraceful, aside from Hargrave & Gilbee we were hammered. Lake, Morris & Addison all had their worst games for the club whilst Everitt was beaten easily too. Hargrave/Gilbee were about the only two players for us willing to work hard, carry the football and generally use the ball properly. If Williams was fit enough, he should of played - what's the point of holding him back another week? We've 'babied' him since he was drafted and he's been constantly getting injured, if he was down there today, it would of given us some flexibility. In the end, TILLER had to play on Mooney!

The forwards were pathetic too. Aside from Harbrow & Johnson, they refused to pressure in the second half. The delivery into the forward half was shocking too. Long bombs - WHY? The only way we win games if we constantly move around creating space for themselves and for others. All day we were happy to stand flat footed and as a result the Geelong defense had a day out. Milburn had 19 possessions in the first quarter - that's just poor on our behalf. EVERYONE knows that Geelong generate plenty of run off half back, yet we simply allowed them to. Welsh, Minson, Murphy, Hahn & Aker were very poor all day.

Gia/Eagleton/Hargrave/Gilbee were pretty good, but the rest of the team let themselves down. Cooney, Griffen, Cross & Boyd lost the midfield battle with Ablett & Ling missing - it's not particularly encouraging.

I don't wanna sound like a drama queen, especially as I'm writing on raw emotion at the moment, but I'm very disappointed and angry at what we dished up. We played ten or so minutes of good football in the first half of the second quarter, but aside from that, we were too handball happy - CONSTANTLY putting our team mates under pressure, we missed targets by foot, we had absolutely no forward structure whatsoever, our backs played from behind & we were second to the ball.

The thing that kept us in the game was our pressure - once that dropped off, we were always going to be belted. The fact that it was 70 odd points on a day where we had a lot to prove is hurtful. We're a long, long way off unfortunately.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It was the players out for us that made most difference.

I wish I could agree.

Higgins injured his ankle in Round 2 - hardly can count him as a 'difference' since we've had a good season without him.

West has played 4? games. Again, as good as West is, it's not a viable excuse because we've beaten good teams without him. Nevertheless, I hope he's back soon - we definitely need him.

Williams I will agree on - our backs were slaughtered today and we really missed him.

Ablett, Ling & Wojcinski out hurts us today more than it hurts them, because they're all key players of their side - two with genuine pace, and Ling with ball winning ability/tagging. All that gone yet they still smashed us.

So for mine, players out isn't an excuse we can use at all - but West & Williams need to be brought back ASAP based on today.

[Scorlibo]

TBB, Tiller, Harbrow, Everitt for Williams, Callan and West would have been bloody nice today, whereas the three inclusions for Geelong all did very well.

Two players who can hold their head up high today are Gilbee and Addison. Gilbee was one of the only players who could take Geelong on effectively with his run and carry and precise foot skills. Addison was hard at it as usual, made all the right decisions, tackled well and was good with his disposal.

[ledge]

Bulldog bite, yes raw emotion does get to us, but lets be positive if we played as bad as you have said, we played the top side by a mile, had so many players playing badly but still only lost in one 1\4 .
We did play them at the cattery, that wont happen again.
Signs are good if what you wrote is all true.
I hurt too, but we might play them in finals, let them meet us being cocky, thinking we arent any better than we were.
Other positive is we saw our deficiencies and saw how they structure against us, let them have a game that all in all meant little.
Geelong any side will struggle to beat twice in a season, i am happy to just beat them once as long as its not todays game.

[hujsh]

How many times have I said against quality opposition our small half forward line would break down? Cant pin point passes under pressure like this.


So much for our much vaunted small forwardline.

Maybe if we kicked it to their advantage once in a while?

[Rocket Science]

Gutted.

Little of constructive merit can come from reflecting on a wound this raw, this early.

Will suggest the worrying signs were noticeable early irrespective of the competitive scoreline up to the main break. Sheer endeavour and heart kept us in it during the first half...that predictably took it's physical and mental toll, and once fatigued the errors crept in, the heads dropped, the momentum shifted in an instant, and suddenly she was all over bar the shouting. Shattering.

In terms of where we go from here: This result can either end up being an extremely valuable lesson learnt the hard way...or a debilitating millstone.

It's up to the group. Flags don't come easily. File it away and use it.

[LostDoggy]

Maybe if we kicked it to their advantage once in a while?

My point exactly Hujsh, you cant pin point passes under pressure. You need an outlet.
All those WOOFers who have been saying 'i dont think a player like Jonathon Brown would fit in our forward line structure' might like to reconsider.

[Mantis]

Where do you start??

Forwards: Selfish, lazy.... Doesn't help when we are outnumbered, but Murf, Aker, Hahn, Johnson (injury??) had no effect on the game and were unwilling to work hard enough. We all have bad days, but youy still have to contribute defensively when things aren't going your way.

The decision to allow Geelong to have spare men in defence killed us.

Midfield: Out-numbered at the contest and unwilling to work hard enough. Too many out-riders and too many not willing to chase. Gia (good up forward), Cross and Boyd all looked extremely slow. Cross's unwillingness to kick hurt us big time. When your under the pump and you have no players free you can't handball to a 50:50 contest. His kick to handball ratio was about 25% which is not good enough in closely fought contests.

Eagleton and Ray didn't use the ball well enough and were unable to provide any run and carry.

Defence: Lake=embarrassing, obviously can't play CHB and with no other options he was forced to, but was horrible. Don't know who's idea it was to allow Addison to play as the spare man, he should be our tight BP player, not our linkman. He couldn't do either job today and looked out of his depth. Thought our defence battled pretty hard for 3 qtr's, but the shear weight of possession was always going to mean that the dam wall was going to break, and boy did it.

Back to the drawing board's Mr.Eade.

[Happy Days]

The main dissapointments for mine were our blatant refusal to play in front. True, our midfield got the absolute suitcase flogged out of them, but on the rare occasion that we did actually win the clean ball, we had no-one to kick it to.

Secondly, Brian Lake seemed to have one of his much publicised brain-fades, except this one lasted about 120 minutes. His disposal was awful and he got smacked around Luke Ronchi style by Cam Mooney, hardly a Brown or a Pavlich.

But perhaps worst of all was Dale Morris's performance. Easily the worst game I've seen him play in a doggies jumper.

And don't get me started on Aka...enough to make you think Peter Rohde snuck back into the coaches box at half time.

[Mofra]

We might have considered putting a CHB in the side. As much as some don't rate him, I think Wight would have helped with our flexibility today - we had Tiller on Money at one point - no disrespect to Tiller, but he is way too small to play on Mooney. Skinny was outsized on Lonergan, then found himself on Mooney. When Ottens went forward, there was the juggle of Lake to Ottens, Everitt to Mooney & Tiller on Lonegan.

This is before we discuss our refusal to make a contest on our HF line.

[wimberga]

We might have considered putting a CHB in the side. As much as some don't rate him, I think Wight would have helped with our flexibility today - we had Tiller on Money at one point - no disrespect to Tiller, but he is way too small to play on Mooney. Skinny was outsized on Lonergan, then found himself on Mooney. When Ottens went forward, there was the juggle of Lake to Ottens, Everitt to Mooney & Tiller on Lonegan.

This is before we discuss our refusal to make a contest on our HF line.

Im pretty sure Tiller and Mooney are both around 196cm

[GVGjr]

Im pretty sure Tiller and Mooney are both around 196cm

Tiller is slated at 191cm and Mooney about 193cm

[GVGjr]

We might have considered putting a CHB in the side. As much as some don't rate him, I think Wight would have helped with our flexibility today - we had Tiller on Money at one point - no disrespect to Tiller, but he is way too small to play on Mooney. Skinny was outsized on Lonergan, then found himself on Mooney. When Ottens went forward, there was the juggle of Lake to Ottens, Everitt to Mooney & Tiller on Lonegan.

This is before we discuss our refusal to make a contest on our HF line.

Pretty much agree with this. There also seemed to be a bit of uneasiness between Akermanis and Johnson and they didn't seem to be in sync at all.
FWIW, I think dropping Hill was a mistake as well.

[LostDoggy]

I know a lot of the good folk here love Harbrow but I was very disappointed in his decision making and skills today. He cost us a couple of goals in that third quarter with some dreadful errors and at the moment I don't think he is good enough to be in the side.

[hujsh]

I wouldn't worry too much about today's match. We played bad and lost. The season will not end.

Not long ago Geelong looked vulnerable loosing to Collingwood and have recovered quite well.

We won't play at Kardinia Park again.

Hopefully we hit better form entering finals. (The tapering may come into effect here)

[hujsh]

My point exactly Hujsh, you cant pin point passes under pressure. You need an outlet.
All those WOOFers who have been saying 'i dont think a player like Jonathon Brown would fit in our forward line structure' might like to reconsider.

Your point is valid but we not only didn't we pin point passes, we kicked to the advantage to the Geelong players by kicking it to the side the Cat player was on.

No doubt that John Brown would be nice but i guess we have to use what we've got:(

[ledge]

I thought Eagleton and Harbrow tried real hard today, Harbrow was forced to tackle all day because of the bad delivery, so couldnt use his elusive skills in the forward line, yes he made a couple of mistakes but there were a lot worse from more seasoned players.
Still cant figure why Gia was our go to forward one out when Welsh would have been a better option.
Gias game was great today, only one who stood up.
Griffen was good in first half but died off.

[hujsh]

We might have considered putting a CHB in the side. As much as some don't rate him, I think Wight would have helped with our flexibility today - we had Tiller on Money at one point - no disrespect to Tiller, but he is way too small to play on Mooney. Skinny was outsized on Lonergan, then found himself on Mooney. When Ottens went forward, there was the juggle of Lake to Ottens, Everitt to Mooney & Tiller on Lonegan.

This is before we discuss our refusal to make a contest on our HF line.

Saw Hargrave on Ottens and just felt this game may be gone

[hujsh]

I wonder if Hill should have played today.

Harbrow's pressure was great but he didn't seem a valid attacking option.

There was one contest where Johnson was wrestling with Hunt and Harbrow stood waiting for the crumb. The ball went out of bounds and Johnson made a gesture that looked like he was telling him to go over the top and mark the ball. Hill would not have hesitated and while we were bombing the ball in early Hill would have been somewhat dangerous.

[Mantis]

I know a lot of the good folk here love Harbrow but I was very disappointed in his decision making and skills today. He cost us a couple of goals in that third quarter with some dreadful errors and at the moment I don't think he is good enough to be in the side.

I am unashamed fan of Harbrow's, I think he will be a terrific player for the club. One thing he does is give 100% and give's repeated efforts which is more than I can say about a few of his more accomplished team-mates (Looking at you messers Johnson, Akermanis & Giansiracusa)

Yeah he made some silly mistakes, but he is one player who will learn from them which will make him a better player.

He may not be in our best 22 at the end of the season, but he certainly is at present. Atleast with him playing we have one of our forwards chasing and applying pressure on a consistent basis, without him we would have none.

[LostDoggy]

I am unashamed fan of Harbrow's, I think he will be a terrific player for the club. One thing he does is give 100% and give's repeated efforts which is more than I can say about a few of his more accomplished team-mates (Looking at you messers Johnson, Akermanis & Giansiracusa)

Yeah he made some silly mistakes, but he is one player who will learn from them which will make him a better player.

He may not be in our best 22 at the end of the season, but he certainly is at present. Atleast with him playing we have one of our forwards chasing and applying pressure on a consistent basis, without him we would have none.

I don't think that is a good enough reason for him to be maintained.At times he runs around in circles like a headless chook when he has the ball and it does not provide the guys playing forward of him any idea on what he is likely to do. It might look exciting but normally he coughs the ball up as well.
Let him learn his craft at Willy because imo Hill offers so much more at the moment.

[1eyedog]

Pretty bad last quarter that. dear oh dear, the cats really stepped up when they needed to, and looked too strong around the clearances.Thought our pressure and tackling was really good for the 1st half but we just couldnt sustain it. ALOT of players had quite days especailly Hahn and aker, while Murph didnt do much either. Our backline busted their guts considering the cats had 21 inside 50's to 8 in that last qtr.

The guys really need to get their focus back coz after today, next weeks game againt the blues looms as a danger match that we CANNOT afford to drop.

Everitt on Gamble was a nightmare match-up.

I'm a huge Hahn fan, but he was dreadful, didn't even do the one percenters

[GVGjr]

I don't think that is a good enough reason for him to be maintained.At times he runs around in circles like a headless chook when he has the ball and it does not provide the guys playing forward of him any idea on what he is likely to do. It might look exciting but normally he coughs the ball up as well.
Let him learn his craft at Willy because imo Hill offers so much more at the moment.

Harbrow appears to be indecisive with his running and it left the forwards flat footed because they couldn't anticipate where to lead to. That being said the forwards were woeful today.

[Sedat]

Am I the only one who is quite philosophical after today's performance? We were hammered in 40 minutes of power football. It's not the end of the world. The likes of Cross, Boyd, Lake, Aker, Welsh, Hudson, Minson and Morris cannot possibly play any worse as a collective group.

Very surprised by the dissing of Addison on this thread. IMO he was one of the few players to enhance his reputation after today. He was feerless and attacked the ball and the man with the ball without any regard for his safety. He may lack polish but he goes in where angels fear to tread.

We have been flat since the Collingwood game - every team has a flat spell during the season. Even Geelong did early in the season. I'd much rather we went through a flat spell in July than in September.

[hujsh]

I wouldn't worry too much about today's match. We played bad and lost. The season will not end.

Not long ago Geelong looked vulnerable loosing to Collingwood and have recovered quite well.

We won't play at Kardinia Park again.

Hopefully we hit better form entering finals. (The tapering may come into effect here)


Am I the only one who is quite philosophical after today's performance? We were hammered in 40 minutes of power football. It's not the end of the world. The likes of Cross, Boyd, Lake, Aker, Welsh, Hudson, Minson and Morris cannot possibly play any worse as a collective group.

Very surprised by the dissing of Addison on this thread. IMO he was one of the few players to enhance his reputation after today. He was feerless and attacked the ball and the man with the ball without any regard for his safety. He may lack polish but he goes in where angels fear to tread.

We have been flat since the Collingwood game - every team has a flat spell during the season. Even Geelong did early in the season. I'd much rather we went through a flat spell in July than in September.

No your not.

If would be more pissed if i watched it on TV but i was just happy to be at the game

[Sedat]

No your not.

If would be more pissed if i watched it on TV but i was just happy to be at the game
Good to hear.

Today was a fantastic opportunity for our players to see first-hand what it is going to take to win a premiership. The knowledge gleaned from today should be invaluable for the rest of the season.

I was watching it on TV, and Geelong play in such a way that it is very difficult not to admire them. Both teams were rusty in the first half (mostly due to the pressure and intensity on the ball carrier) but Geelong's ball-use and decision-making in the last 40 minutes were just about as good as has ever been played. At the minute, they are on another level altogether from the rest of the competition.

[The Underdog]

My point exactly Hujsh, you cant pin point passes under pressure. You need an outlet.
All those WOOFers who have been saying 'i dont think a player like Jonathon Brown would fit in our forward line structure' might like to reconsider.

Are there really any people who say that Johnathon Brown wouldn't fit into our forward line. Of course he ****ing would. He'd fit into anyone's forward line fercrissake. He's the best player in the league. But saying that how many teams have a Brown? Top quality tall forwards don't grow on trees.

[LostDoggy]

Are there really any people who say that Johnathon Brown wouldn't fit into our forward line. Of course he ****ing would. He'd fit into anyone's forward line fercrissake. He's the best player in the league. But saying that how many teams have a Brown? Top quality tall forwards don't grow on trees.


You are right Underdog, top quality key forwards dont grow on trees. Maybe thats why i was very restrained and cautious about my praise of this 'new' Bulldog team/game plan over the past 6 months. A few people took every chance to stick the boot in, im just levelling the scores.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Am I the only one who is quite philosophical after today's performance? We were hammered in 40 minutes of power football. It's not the end of the world. The likes of Cross, Boyd, Lake, Aker, Welsh, Hudson, Minson and Morris cannot possibly play any worse as a collective group.

Very surprised by the dissing of Addison on this thread. IMO he was one of the few players to enhance his reputation after today. He was feerless and attacked the ball and the man with the ball without any regard for his safety. He may lack polish but he goes in where angels fear to tread.

We have been flat since the Collingwood game - every team has a flat spell during the season. Even Geelong did early in the season. I'd much rather we went through a flat spell in July than in September.

I can't remember when I've cared about a 10 goal loss less.

What happens in the wind and rain at Kadinia Park in July has no bearing at all on what happens at the MCG in September.

Didn't Port beat Geelong at KP last year?

[Topdog]

Are there really any people who say that Johnathon Brown wouldn't fit into our forward line. Of course he ****ing would. He'd fit into anyone's forward line fercrissake. He's the best player in the league. But saying that how many teams have a Brown? Top quality tall forwards don't grow on trees.

I'd like to see a quote from someone that said that and meant it.

Anyhow it was a dreadful 2nd half by us and I still don't think a lot of it had to do with not having a key forward. Most of our kicks into the forward 50 went straight to Harley who was by himself by 10 metres.

Doesn't mean a whole lot in the scheme of things IMO but is still disappointing.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I'd like to see a quote from someone that said that and meant it.

Anyhow it was a dreadful 2nd half by us and I still don't think a lot of it had to do with not having a key forward. Most of our kicks into the forward 50 went straight to Harley who was by himself by 10 metres.
Doesn't mean a whole lot in the scheme of things IMO but is still disappointing.

If he was 10 metres away from his opponent, WTF didn't we kick it to our bloke who was 10 metres clear?

[bornadog]

Tiller is slated at 191cm and Mooney about 193cm

Tiller 191 and 88kg

Mooney
195 and 99kg

[bornadog]

What I learnt yesterday.

We were smashed in the ruck by two ruckman who stand over 200cm and Hudson was found wanting. The effect was Geelong's midfield had first use of the ball out of the middle and around the ground. With our midfield down, the forward line had limited opportunities. Any balls going into the forward line were either under pressure or just banged in and the best backline in the AFL cleaned them up. Should Street have played?

As for the backline, Wight should have played at CHB and allowed Lake to play the FB role. Everitt is only 19 and needs muscle and is far from a KPP. At 193cm and 87kg and with 14 games, he is far from ready for a key role. Williams will be a welcome return next week.

We do need a mobile, tall forward, and I mean tall (over 195cm), not a lumbering Minson, this was very evident yesterday. These guys donot grow on trees and it will be years before either, Everitt, Grant, or Boumann are ready. In the meantime, if we are going to deliver the ball into a mid to small forward line, we have to hit these guys on the chest, or Minson has to contest, (in front) and bring the ball to ground.

Murphy, Hahn have been well down for several weeks now and need to find some form. As for Aker, Voss made an interesting observation, he has never played well against Geelong....... interesting.

I also felt that Griffen and Welsh, who have not played for three weeks, were a bit rusty. They will bounce back next week.

[LostDoggy]

I can't remember when I've cared about a 10 goal loss less.

What happens in the wind and rain at Kadinia Park in July has no bearing at all on what happens at the MCG in September.

Didn't Port beat Geelong at KP last year?

Same here SS. I watched the entire game and was satisfied after the first three quarters that there was definitely enough to work with, if not this season, then certainly the next (not that I'm giving up the season yet!).

Our pressure on the ball for the first three quarters was great -- many Geelong players were panicked into mistakes, bad handpasses etc. and we showed that we had enough mass, if not gas, to go with most of the players. The legs ran out in the end and the score blew out, but it's a far different 67 point loss to many that I've seen in the past -- it was essentially being flogged in the last quarter, which is never pleasing, but can often mask the great work that was done in the first three. The team certainly still looks relatively flat but will clean up nicely for the finals. We are not the same team that were beaten comprehensively last year by a similar margin.

Geelong can't play much better than they're doing right now, and peaking in July isn't a great recipe for winning a Grand Final.

--

ps. Quite annoyed that Addison, Aker and Harbrow are getting the knocks that they are. Addison put his head over the ball every time and saved our bacon on quite a few occasions. Aker made two great tackles in the forward 50 in the second quarter that led to goals. He also crumbed the ball early in the third that led to another goal. The bloke is trying his heart out, sometimes it's just impossible to run guys down all day. On that point, Johnno ran down a player too, as did Harbrow, twice. That's a huge return from a forwardline as far as forward pressure goes.

It's not the forwardline's fault -- Coons and Crossy had a flat-ish day, and Griff, apart from one or two nice things, looked a little bit off the pace too.

There was a 10 minute period in the third term when the game turned -- we had locked them into their forward 50 for 10 minutes, which ended with Johnno running down a defender and getting a free. If Johnno had iced that kick, we would have won the game. But he missed, the ball went down the other end, Jarrod turned the ball over, and Taylor kicked a goal from outside 50 on the run, and momentum was lost and we never recovered. If Johnno had converted, it would have been the Dogs that would have gotten on a roll and potentially blew the margin out the other way.

I'm not too fussed with the loss, by any stretch of the imagination.

[LostDoggy]

And as Jerry mentioned, I remember clearly when Jon Brown was brought up how quite a few of us asked if that would make us too 'one-dimensional' and easy to work out, as if all of a sudden Aker, Murph, Johnno, Welsh etc would disappear into the earth. A Jon Brown in our forwardline would be the makings of Harbrow et al because they would live off his crumbs, and he would kick over 100 goals in a Dogs jumper with the likes of Coons and Aker knocking balls down his throat.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if Riewoldt (now everyone wants him.. I've always said he would be great for the Dogs) or Browny are on the market (and they are!), we would be remiss to not throw everything we have at them. They would cement the next four grand finals for this group of players and reward the team for all their endeavour.

[Go_Dogs]

I think we're deluding ourelves if we think on current showing we're within cooee of the Cats.

I tend to disagree, I think we are easily good enough, and during the first half it really looked as though we could've blown the game open. We choked though under the pressure and perceived pressure that they created, and as such our disposal was poor, decision making poor and a lot of blokes looked rushed and confused.

I think Geelong were worried, I haven't seen them make as many mistakes by hand or foot as they did in the first half.

Sure, the game got away from us in the end, but if I were a part of the coaching staff or playing group, I'd be feeling pretty confident that we can give them a serious shake later in the year.

[ledge]

I tend to disagree, I think we are easily good enough, and during the first half it really looked as though we could've blown the game open. We choked though under the pressure and perceived pressure that they created, and as such our disposal was poor, decision making poor and a lot of blokes looked rushed and confused.

I think Geelong were worried, I haven't seen them make as many mistakes by hand or foot as they did in the first half.

Sure, the game got away from us in the end, but if I were a part of the coaching staff or playing group, I'd be feeling pretty confident that we can give them a serious shake later in the year.

Spot on, let them meet us next time being all cocky because they beat us by 10 goals.
Gives our players more drive to beat them.

[Dry Rot]

My point exactly Hujsh, you cant pin point passes under pressure. You need an outlet.


Agreed - it all looks good against lesser teams, but not really top class ones. The Swans will keep a video of yesterday's game for reference in a couple of weeks.

[Topdog]

Our forward line failed for 1 quarter against the best team in the league.

Panic stations people. Sydney already had a crack at doing it and came out well down.

[Rach]

Anyhow it was a dreadful 2nd half by us and I still don't think a lot of it had to do with not having a key forward. Most of our kicks into the forward 50 went straight to Harley who was by himself by 10 metres.
It looked like for the whole game, Geelong had extra players on the ground. At one stage in the 4th quarter, the ball was kicked into the forwardline to Murphy (I think) and there were about five Geelong players around him. That seemed to happen a lot yesterday, the ball was kicked long into the forwardline to a two or three on one contest, in favour of Geelong. Disappointing :(

[Scorlibo]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if Riewoldt (now everyone wants him.. I've always said he would be great for the Dogs) or Browny are on the market (and they are!), we would be remiss to not throw everything we have at them. They would cement the next four grand finals for this group of players and reward the team for all their endeavour.

Hmm. I would love Riewoldt at the dogs but I doubt him or Brown will leave their current clubs. If they do though, what would we have to give up do you think? Our 1st pick and a current player? We may not have the flexibility this year with low picks, obligation to Ayce Cordy and a list of committed players (no Sam Powers or Pattrick Bowdens to offload).

[bornadog]

I tend to disagree, I think we are easily good enough, and during the first half it really looked as though we could've blown the game open. We choked though under the pressure and perceived pressure that they created, and as such our disposal was poor, decision making poor and a lot of blokes looked rushed and confused.

I think Geelong were worried, I haven't seen them make as many mistakes by hand or foot as they did in the first half.

Sure, the game got away from us in the end, but if I were a part of the coaching staff or playing group, I'd be feeling pretty confident that we can give them a serious shake later in the year.

We should have been five goals up at quarter time but our delivery into the forward line was not good. With the wind howling down that end, we kept going to the wrong pocket ie the left on the goals. In the last quarter, Geelong showed us how to play their ground, ie go to the right pocket and have a shot from that side.

[Scraggers]

Spot on, let them meet us next time being all cocky because they beat us by 10 goals.
Gives our players more drive to beat them.

I agree ... even though it was a last quarter drubbing, I think we learnt more from the game than they did

[LostDoggy]

What I learnt yesterday.

We were smashed in the ruck by two ruckman who stand over 200cm and Hudson was found wanting. The effect was Geelong's midfield had first use of the ball out of the middle and around the ground. With our midfield down, the forward line had limited opportunities. Any balls going into the forward line were either under pressure or just banged in and the best backline in the AFL cleaned them up. Should Street have played?


We were smashed everywhere and the ruck wasn't the main issue. Hudson just failed to get his regular clearances(the ball went through his legs so often).
With Street there would have been the same.

[LostDoggy]

As for the backline, Wight should have played at CHB and allowed Lake to play the FB role. Everitt is only 19 and needs muscle and is far from a KPP. At 193cm and 87kg and with 14 games, he is far from ready for a key role. Williams will be a welcome return next week.

Agree here. Tiller was probably worse than Wight against Melbourne. I'm very disappointed with Lake's game yesterday. I have no problem usually as he lets the forward lead up but usually its 2+ kicks from goal. Mooney killed us.

[LostDoggy]

We do need a mobile, tall forward, and I mean tall (over 195cm), not a lumbering Minson, this was very evident yesterday. These guys donot grow on trees and it will be years before either, Everitt, Grant, or Boumann are ready. In the meantime, if we are going to deliver the ball into a mid to small forward line, we have to hit these guys on the chest, or Minson has to contest, (in front) and bring the ball to ground.

Murphy, Hahn have been well down for several weeks now and need to find some form. As for Aker, Voss made an interesting observation, he has never played well against Geelong....... interesting.

I also felt that Griffen and Welsh, who have not played for three weeks, were a bit rusty. They will bounce back next week.

A champion CHF would be great but I think Minson is ok for the moment. He is under utilized. Mark just after siren would have been a good confidence boost.
Delivery into our F50 was shocking and no forward would have prospered yesterday.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I wasn't as critical of Lake's game as most. Mooney took about 5 of his marks diving low down on the lead, no-one stops that.

[LostDoggy]

I wasn't as critical of Lake's game as most. Mooney took about 5 of his marks diving low down on the lead, no-one stops that.
5 out of 13 marks.
5 were also inside 50. Only 1 contested. 16 of 18 uncontested possessions for a CHF or FF seems very high.
Lake was no where near him all day.

[Mantis]

ps. Quite annoyed that Addison, Aker and Harbrow are getting the knocks that they are. Addison put his head over the ball every time and saved our bacon on quite a few occasions. Aker made two great tackles in the forward 50 in the second quarter that led to goals. He also crumbed the ball early in the third that led to another goal. The bloke is trying his heart out, sometimes it's just impossible to run guys down all day. On that point, Johnno ran down a player too, as did Harbrow, twice. That's a huge return from a forwardline as far as forward pressure goes.

It's not the forwardline's fault -- Coons and Crossy had a flat-ish day, and Griff, apart from one or two nice things, looked a little bit off the pace too.



There are some parts here that I do not agree with.

Addison was extremely disappointing in my view. I have always stood up for Dylan, but I thought he looked out of place yesterday. Yes he showed some desperation at times, but not all the time, but when he was asked to guard man he couldn't. Stokes led him a merry dance when the game was tight, he just seemed to have no feel for the game or the conditions. I'm not sure who's idea it was to allow him to play as the spare man in defence either.

Aker and the rest of the forwards were let down by the delivery and yes it is hard chasing tails all day, but some days the team needs you to do this and our forwards as a group seemed unwilling to do the hard stuff. In my mind that simply wasn't good enough and once again it was the same players letting us down in this area .ie. Murf, Johnson, Gia & Aker.

[The Pie Man]

There was a 10 minute period in the third term when the game turned -- we had locked them into their forward 50 for 10 minutes, which ended with Johnno running down a defender and getting a free. If Johnno had iced that kick, we would have won the game. But he missed, the ball went down the other end, Jarrod turned the ball over, and Taylor kicked a goal from outside 50 on the run, and momentum was lost and we never recovered. If Johnno had converted, it would have been the Dogs that would have gotten on a roll and potentially blew the margin out the other way.

I'm not too fussed with the loss, by any stretch of the imagination.

I can see where you're going with this, though it's a prerty long bow to draw saying we would have won the game with Johnson not missing that shot - though through this period, I felt we were up to our ears in the game, I was pretty happy despite giving away plenty of possession.

Like Lantern and many others, I can draw pleny of long term positives from this.

* It's July (and that means a few things - obviously not a final and less obvious, cold & windy)
* Williams out - he would've been very handy
* So many players down - Aka, Hahn, Murphy, Lake etc
* Skilled Stadium - wide expanses of the MCG on a still, sunny September day it's not

If we were to win the flag this year, we could be looking back on this game as a massive turning point - we've seen the yardstick play a blinding quarter (much like the West Coast final in 06) we know we can be competitive, we know a fair group can play miles better next time. Ling & Ablett big ins for the next clash should we meet again this year, though Gamble was very impressive, they didn't have a bad player.

Hahn's goal in the 2nd qtr was an interesting moment for mine - just like any game of footy, you're a chance to kick goals with centre clearances - we just didn't win enough of these yesterday, Hudson I'm sure will want to get one back on Ottens next time round. I'd still trust Lake on Mooney...he couldn't play that badly again. Morris' second bad game of his career, I'd have no hesitation throwing him Steve Johnson again and being confident the result will be different.

We, like 14 other teams, broke down across HF against the Cats (how does Milburn get 19 first quarter possessions?) Murphy can play much better than that (he wasn't that bad really, but can have more of an influence)

Will feel a lot better with a solid win against the Blues, so we don't feel a hideous sense of deja vu. Confident we'll be fine.

[Go_Dogs]

5 out of 13 marks.
5 were also inside 50. Only 1 contested. 16 of 18 uncontested possessions for a CHF or FF seems very high.
Lake was no where near him all day.

I tend to think Lake was often caught in two minds as to whether or not he should zone off to help out, say an Everitt, or stay to his man. I noticed a few times he left his man to try and get to be the 3rd man at a contest, couldn't quite make it, his teammate lost the contest and suddenly he was badly out of position.

[aker39]

ps. Quite annoyed that Addison, Aker and Harbrow are getting the knocks that they are. .


Any player that only gets 3 possessions in a half of footy is going to get a bit of stick.

There were plenty of players down Saturday, none more so than Everitt.

[craigsahibee]

We, like 14 other teams, broke down across HF against the Cats (how does Milburn get 19 first quarter possessions?) Murphy can play much better than that (he wasn't that bad really, but can have more of an influence)



The critics will be out again saying we can't go all the way without the traditional CHF. On a narrow ground like Kardinia Park, you do need a strong CHF to funnel the ball through. I still believe we have the forward set up to kick enough goals on the expanses of the MCG.

[LostDoggy]

There are some parts here that I do not agree with.

Addison was extremely disappointing in my view. I have always stood up for Dylan, but I thought he looked out of place yesterday. Yes he showed some desperation at times, but not all the time, but when he was asked to guard man he couldn't. Stokes led him a merry dance when the game was tight, he just seemed to have no feel for the game or the conditions. I'm not sure who's idea it was to allow him to play as the spare man in defence either.

Aker and the rest of the forwards were let down by the delivery and yes it is hard chasing tails all day, but some days the team needs you to do this and our forwards as a group seemed unwilling to do the hard stuff. In my mind that simply wasn't good enough and once again it was the same players letting us down in this area .ie. Murf, Johnson, Gia & Aker.

To reiterate:
Aker made two great tackles in the forward 50 in the second quarter that led to goals. He also crumbed the ball early in the third that led to another goal. The bloke is trying his heart out, sometimes it's just impossible to run guys down all day. On that point, Johnno ran down a player too, as did Harbrow, twice. That's a huge return from a forwardline as far as forward pressure goes.

--

How many run-down tackles inside 50 is a team expected to make? Maybe two, three a game to change the momentum? That's six I can remember off the top of my head, and you think that our forwardline doesn't chase? If delivery is into no-mans-land, a forward can hardly be blamed for being 10 metres behind the play -- those 10 metres are the 10 metres he has managed to get clear and would use to snaffle the ball if delivered to advantage.

I was more disappointed that Scarlett wasn't more physically man-handled. I don't mean breaking his cheekbone, but we should have been happy to give away a couple of 50s by just falling on his head or running through him. At least tackle him hard and make the damn things stick. It was like we missed an opportunity to make a statement to their leaders.

Having said that, I can't think of who in our team would physically intimidate Scarlett. Maybe Hahn.

[Go_Dogs]

To reiterate:
Aker made two great tackles in the forward 50 in the second quarter that led to goals. He also crumbed the ball early in the third that led to another goal. The bloke is trying his heart out, sometimes it's just impossible to run guys down all day. On that point, Johnno ran down a player too, as did Harbrow, twice. That's a huge return from a forwardline as far as forward pressure goes.

--

How many run-down tackles inside 50 is a team expected to make? Maybe two, three a game to change the momentum? That's six I can remember off the top of my head, and you think that our forwardline doesn't chase? If delivery is into no-mans-land, a forward can hardly be blamed for being 10 metres behind the play -- those 10 metres are the 10 metres he has managed to get clear and would use to snaffle the ball if delivered to advantage.

I was more disappointed that Scarlett wasn't more physically man-handled. I don't mean breaking his cheekbone, but we should have been happy to give away a couple of 50s by just falling on his head or running through him. At least tackle him hard and make the damn things stick. It was like we missed an opportunity to make a statement to their leaders.

Having said that, I can't think of who in our team would physically intimidate Scarlett. Maybe Hahn.

Perhaps I was watching a different game, but can't remember those Akermanis tackles Lantern, and the stats didn't credit him with a single tackle.

Harbrow was the only forward whose defensive pressure was up to scratch, imo at least.

[Sedat]

There were plenty of players down Saturday, none more so than Everitt.
Agree with this. He has made steady progress since returning from injury but he lacked poise, desperation and smarts on Saturday. Was a weak link in our defensive 50 on the day. I still believe he is in our best 22 but I think a run up the field onto the wing might make better use of his talents in the current line-up - my preferred best back 6 would be Williams (assuming full fitness), Lake, Morris, Hargrave, Gilbee and Addison.

[bornadog]

Agree with this. He has made steady progress since returning from injury but he lacked poise, desperation and smarts on Saturday. Was a weak link in our defensive 50 on the day. I still believe he is in our best 22 but I think a run up the field onto the wing might make better use of his talents in the current line-up - my preferred best back 6 would be Williams (assuming full fitness), Lake, Morris, Hargrave, Gilbee and Addison.

Tim Callen?

[Rocket Science]

Having said that, I can't think of who in our team would physically intimidate Scarlett. Maybe Hahn.

Surely if Minson's not taking marks he'd at least be handy in this regard too.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Perhaps I was watching a different game, but can't remember those Akermanis tackles Lantern, and the stats didn't credit him with a single tackle.

Harbrow was the only forward whose defensive pressure was up to scratch, imo at least.

Then the stats are straight out wrong. Aker did lay two tackles early on, I remember them clearly.

[Go_Dogs]

Then the stats are straight out wrong. Aker did lay two tackles early on, I remember them clearly.

Fair enough.

[Mantis]

To reiterate:
Aker made two great tackles in the forward 50 in the second quarter that led to goals. He also crumbed the ball early in the third that led to another goal. The bloke is trying his heart out, sometimes it's just impossible to run guys down all day. On that point, Johnno ran down a player too, as did Harbrow, twice. That's a huge return from a forwardline as far as forward pressure goes.

--

How many run-down tackles inside 50 is a team expected to make? Maybe two, three a game to change the momentum? That's six I can remember off the top of my head, and you think that our forwardline doesn't chase? If delivery is into no-mans-land, a forward can hardly be blamed for being 10 metres behind the play -- those 10 metres are the 10 metres he has managed to get clear and would use to snaffle the ball if delivered to advantage.



He only made the tackle because other's had busted there ass chasing and the bloke and he was standing right in front of him. You can believe that his defensive effort's were ok, I believe they were piss weak!!!

And yes the delivery to the forwards was atrocious, but the Geelongt defender's had no troubles reading where the ball was going.

[The Pie Man]

The critics will be out again saying we can't go all the way without the traditional CHF. On a narrow ground like Kardinia Park, you do need a strong CHF to funnel the ball through. I still believe we have the forward set up to kick enough goals on the expanses of the MCG.

Agreed - relieve the pressure from midfield by actually getting on top, and our forward structure will perform like it has 13 other times this year.

One loss like this doesn't rob you of credibility IMO - though a 10 goal thumping in September might, especially if it's 2nd/3rd week in.


There's a lot of work to do, but at least we know exactly what it is and have 6 weeks to do this.

[Sedat]

Tim Callen?
I'd have Addison currently ahead of him in the kamikaze small defender role.

[ledge]

I have a question on what the club wants with Tiller, when he started at the club he was a forward, he came into the side as a leading forward and kicked a couple of goals a game, but he has been playing in the backline at Willy and at the dogs.
Last week against Melbourne he started in the forward line and lead well and got free but was never delivered the ball.
This was noted in previous posts about the Melbourne game.
He showed good hands and speed in the forward line and we all know we lack a key forward.
He is trying his guts out in the backline, but i think he is more a natural forward.
Is there any reason why he hasnt been pushed as a forward?

[The Pie Man]

I have a question on what the club wants with Tiller, when he started at the club he was a forward, he came into the side as a leading forward and kicked a couple of goals a game, but he has been playing in the backline at Willy and at the dogs.
Last week against Melbourne he started in the forward line and lead well and got free but was never delivered the ball.
This was noted in previous posts about the Melbourne game.
He showed good hands and speed in the forward line and we all know we lack a key forward.
He is trying his guts out in the backline, but i think he is more a natural forward.
Is there any reason why he hasnt been pushed as a forward?

Is it football education?

My understanding is that he was brought to the club as a forward - it's nice to have someone 6'2 / 6'3 to be able to play both ends comfortably and provide run from half back - it'd be even better to develop a key forward should you have a young man with the potential to actually be one. Would create more pressure on the Harley's/Scarlett's running out of their back half then Minson, purely through physical capability.

Saw one lead of his honoured in the 1st quarter vs Melbourne, had his arms chopped quite badly, no free kick. Not the only umpiring howler against Melbourne (that Minson mark)

[Mantis]

I have a question on what the club wants with Tiller, when he started at the club he was a forward, he came into the side as a leading forward and kicked a couple of goals a game, but he has been playing in the backline at Willy and at the dogs.
Last week against Melbourne he started in the forward line and lead well and got free but was never delivered the ball.
This was noted in previous posts about the Melbourne game.
He showed good hands and speed in the forward line and we all know we lack a key forward.
He is trying his guts out in the backline, but i think he is more a natural forward.
Is there any reason why he hasnt been pushed as a forward?

By you.....We all know he is your love child.

He isn't alone in not having the ball kicked to him. The Bulldogs team has long been a boys club where the 'senior' players play kick to kick especially when the side is struggling.

[hujsh]

Next time we play Williams should take Mooney. Let Lake take Lonergan or Ottens. Then Everitt might have to play 30-40% of the game as a key backman.

[LostDoggy]

Then the stats are straight out wrong. Aker did lay two tackles early on, I remember them clearly.

I know, SS, it's a mystery. I wonder about this -- I was looking through some stats re: tackles and frees inside 50 for a couple of games (Dogs/Geelong and North/Collingwood) and they straight out contradicted my direct memory of the games. Maybe Champion Data have a different (ie. wrong) definition of tackling because if you asked the blokes tackled they'll sure as hell tell you they were tackled.

[LostDoggy]

I'd have Addison currently ahead of him in the kamikaze small defender role.

No way!

Addison is great and hard as nails, but he's playing out of position in defence. He would develop into a great in and under player if Rocket can teach him how to handball it out asap like your Crosses and Wests.

Tim Callan is a seasoned body and professional who knows how to defend -- when to stick to your man, when to leave him to be third man up, when to get across and spoil, when to guard space. The thing that lets him down is his disposal, but as a defender he is MILES ahead of Dylan at the moment.

[Rach]

I know, SS, it's a mystery. I wonder about this -- I was looking through some stats re: tackles and frees inside 50 for a couple of games (Dogs/Geelong and North/Collingwood) and they straight out contradicted my direct memory of the games. Maybe Champion Data have a different (ie. wrong) definition of tackling because if you asked the blokes tackled they'll sure as hell tell you they were tackled.

I've noticed some tackles that aren't registered as a stat as well. I started to think maybe they only register a tackle if it results in a ball up, free kick etc. But that just seems wrong.
Another thing, is a behind normally registered to the player who kicked the ball, if its touched of the boot or touched on the goal line? Or is that counted as a rushed behind? I've been wondering that lately too.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

No way!

Addison is great and hard as nails, but he's playing out of position in defence. He would develop into a great in and under player if Rocket can teach him how to handball it out asap like your Crosses and Wests.

Tim Callan is a seasoned body and professional who knows how to defend -- when to stick to your man, when to leave him to be third man up, when to get across and spoil, when to guard space. The thing that lets him down is his disposal, but as a defender he is MILES ahead of Dylan at the moment.

I probably tend to agree.

Addison is tough and has a few highlights per game of this via tackling/bumping/sliding in etc. but his actual defensive work is ordinary. He's often led to the ball, especially against the better sides/players. Addison's hands are probably the worst in the side - I don't know how many times he does an up & under handball that goes straight to the opposition or stops any momentum we had. I think Addison's had a good year, but he might be in trouble come Finals time.

Callan has his own flaws too but he does know when to stay on his man and went to run off. More importantly, I think Callans BEST asset is his ability to be the third man up in a contest. He did this constantly prior to injury, very much Geelong-like, and after watching the team the last weeks it's something we're lacking at the moment.

In terms of a defensive post, I'd probably rather Callan now too - the thing Addison has in his favour is that he can be played up the field a bit at times.

How far away IS Callan though? He's been out for a long, long time.

[LostDoggy]

One more week, then back in the VFL.

[Mantis]

No way!

Addison is great and hard as nails, but he's playing out of position in defence. He would develop into a great in and under player if Rocket can teach him how to handball it out asap like your Crosses and Wests.

Tim Callan is a seasoned body and professional who knows how to defend -- when to stick to your man, when to leave him to be third man up, when to get across and spoil, when to guard space. The thing that lets him down is his disposal, but as a defender he is MILES ahead of Dylan at the moment.

So if or when Callan comes back does Addison make way?

I agree that Callan is a much better small defender compared to Addison.

[LostDoggy]

Dylan has been great all year but even he would be surprised at having played every game. If Callan, Williams, West, Ray and Higgo had all been fit and firing all year, Dylan, Tiller, Wight and Harbrow would have had far fewer games. It's no disrespect to any of the latter four, the first four/five names are clearly in and around our best 22 while the others are clearly developing, fringe players with significant deficiencies in their games. It's basically Dylan's good fortune that Callan was injured the first five rounds, then West went out when Callan came in, and then Callan went out when Everitt came in. He has given it a great shake, but Callan is still a far better defender (for now).

It's good for the depth and future of the team when you can pump as many AFL games into your youngsters when you get the opportunity though.

[ledge]

By you.....We all know he is your love child.

He isn't alone in not having the ball kicked to him. The Bulldogs team has long been a boys club where the 'senior' players play kick to kick especially when the side is struggling.

No it wasnt me !!

[Sockeye Salmon]

He only made the tackle because other's had busted there ass chasing and the bloke and he was standing right in front of him. You can believe that his defensive effort's were ok, I believe they were piss weak!!!



I reckon you're wrong, Cain.

If it's the instance I'm thinking of Johnno laid the first tackle, half-made a second and then got the free for the third.

[Mantis]

I reckon you're wrong, Cain.

If it's the instance I'm thinking of Johnno laid the first tackle, half-made a second and then got the free for the third.

Yeah I watched the tape today and I did see that he put in a couple of efforts in that situation, my wrong.

But my review also highlighted a number of times where he took the 'easy' option. There was a contest in the forward pocket at the city end (outer side) where Johnson waited on the out-skirts of the pack while his team-mate (can't remember who it was) fought unsuccessfully against 2 opponents. Johnson was waiting for the handball out, which didn't come and he didn't impose himself at all on the contest. I can remember going off my nut as this was a terrible example to the team and pretty much summed up the difference between the 2 teams.

One team had numbers at the contest, the other didn't.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Then the stats are straight out wrong. Aker did lay two tackles early on, I remember them clearly.

Me too

[Sockeye Salmon]

Yeah I watched the tape today and I did see that he put in a couple of efforts in that situation, my wrong.

But my review also highlighted a number of times where he took the 'easy' option. There was a contest in the forward pocket at the city end (outer side) where Johnson waited on the out-skirts of the pack while his team-mate (can't remember who it was) fought unsuccessfully against 2 opponents. Johnson was waiting for the handball out, which didn't come and he didn't impose himself at all on the contest. I can remember going off my nut as this was a terrible example to the team and pretty much summed up the difference between the 2 teams.

One team had numbers at the contest, the other didn't.

You got that right!

[1eyedog]

No way!

Addison is great and hard as nails, but he's playing out of position in defence. He would develop into a great in and under player if Rocket can teach him how to handball it out asap like your Crosses and Wests.

Tim Callan is a seasoned body and professional who knows how to defend -- when to stick to your man, when to leave him to be third man up, when to get across and spoil, when to guard space. The thing that lets him down is his disposal, but as a defender he is MILES ahead of Dylan at the moment.

I agree with the summary above, spot on except Callan still struggles to retain his feet after he spoils.

[LostDoggy]

We are a much better team with Tim Callan in it.

Changes the next time we meet the cats?

Tommy Williams - backline
Tim Callan - backline
Scotty West - midfield
Peter Street? - Ruck

Out: Harbrow, Addison, Minson?

Thoughts?

[GVGjr]

We are a much better team with Tim Callan in it.

Changes the next time we meet the cats?

Tommy Williams - backline
Tim Callan - backline
Scotty West - midfield
Peter Street? - Ruck

Out: Harbrow, Addison, Minson?

Thoughts?

I suppose I'm a little surprised to see Addison out of the team and there is very chance that Higgins will be in the mix as well.
FWIW, I would have Addison ahead of Callan.

[1eyedog]

We are a much better team with Tim Callan in it.

Changes the next time we meet the cats?

Tommy Williams - backline
Tim Callan - backline
Scotty West - midfield
Peter Street? - Ruck

Out: Harbrow, Addison, Minson?

Thoughts?

Possibly Higgins too

[bornadog]

We are a much better team with Tim Callan in it.

Changes the next time we meet the cats?

Tommy Williams - backline
Tim Callan - backline
Scotty West - midfield
Peter Street? - Ruck

Out: Harbrow, Addison, Minson?

Thoughts?

I think Street in the ruck would have made a big difference, especially since both Geelong ruckman are over 200cm and really smashed our midget ruckman on Saturday.

[Mantis]

I think Street in the ruck would have made a big difference, especially since both Geelong ruckman are over 200cm and really smashed our midget ruckman on Saturday.

Bulldogs ruckman - Hudson & Minson are both 199cm

Geelong ruckman - Ottens is 202cm, Blake is 200cm.

Not sure there is a huge advantage there.

[ledge]

Bulldogs ruckman - Hudson & Minson are both 199cm

Geelong ruckman - Ottens is 202cm, Blake is 200cm.

Not sure there is a huge advantage there.

Its not really the height of a player that makes that much difference in the ruck when only 1 or 2 cm , its the jump and body positioning.
I would have thoughtboth our ruckmen could jump higher than Ottens and both our ruckman would out body Blake, But visa versa.
In hindsight I think Street would have beaten Blake no problems, body, height and reach.
As i said in hindsight, Eade was probably expectng it to be even in the ruck with the set up and with Ablett out considered our centre to be better than them. It just didnt happen after half time.