Ins and Outs Round 17 v Carlton

[bornadog]

This is a must win to show we have lost no confidence.

Williams should be back from injury, Higgins was ok at Willy. Is Johnno fully fit, how did the ankle come up?

In Williams, Higgins

Out Tiller, Harbrow

[DOG GOD]

why would u drop harbrow, he was the only one that showed fwd defensive pressure.

[Go_Dogs]

Could Hill possibly be a chance, as he was probably unlucky not to play this week and from the few reports I've read seemed to go ok on the weekend?

Will be interesting to see what happens with Williams to as I know GVGjr was suggesting that perhaps he may benefit from a week at Willy before coming back into the side.

Higgins must be getting close too, would add another decent forward/midfield rotation spot. Just hope he's continued working on his defensive efforts.

[The Coon Dog]

why would u drop harbrow, he was the only one that showed fwd defensive pressure.

Because you can't get a game on purely forward defensive pressure. His kicking & decision making were poor on Saturday. 4 of his 6 kicks were turnovers.

[Go_Dogs]

Because you can't get a game on purely forward defensive pressure. His kicking & decision making were poor on Saturday.

I tend to agree. His defensive pressure was fantastic, but he does need to offer more. The previous week against Melbourne he led up and presented well. He needs to do more of the same and kick a few more goals to become a regular.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I would have thought they'd need to give Higgins more time at VFL level to get fit

If Williams comes in I'd suspect it would be for Tiller

[Crizza]

Just putting this out there - should we drop Johnno so that his ankle repairs properly rather than playing injured and risking further damage - but also ensuring his body is ready to fire come finals.

Whilst it is a must win game - i do think we can win without Johnno and allow him to get the ankle right

[bornadog]

Just putting this out there - should we drop Johnno so that his ankle repairs properly rather than playing injured and risking further damage - but also ensuring his body is ready to fire come finals.

Whilst it is a must win game - i do think we can win without Johnno and allow him to get the ankle right


I tend to agree, we need him towards the end of the season. If there is any indication of any injury, lets rest him afew weeks.

[LostDoggy]

Totally agree. It's not as if he's giving us anything anyway playing half-fit. Johnno being Johnno, he's not the kind of player who's going to be much value if he's not mostly there physically. His decision making is suspect and he can disappear for long stretches in a match, but he brings an incredible physical presence, a bulldog attitude, and a difficult match up IF he is match fit. Otherwise -- and I hesitate to say this about a much beloved captain -- he tends to be more of a liability than an asset.

[Mantis]

Totally agree. It's not as if he's giving us anything anyway playing half-fit. Johnno being Johnno, he's not the kind of player who's going to be much value if he's not mostly there physically. His decision making is suspect and he can disappear for long stretches in a match, but he brings an incredible physical presence, a bulldog attitude, and a difficult match up IF he is match fit. Otherwise -- and I hesitate to say this about a much beloved captain -- he tends to be more of a liability than an asset.

Yet you still gave him 2 votes for our best player this week on the back of one 'inspirational' centre clearance.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I thought Will was very poor on the weekend.
Given Street's consistently good form for Williamstown over the course of the year, should he be given reward, and Will a spell in the VFL?

I think Hill to come in for Harbrow. I was one who thought Harbrow deserved a shot above Hill against Geelong, and whilst I still think Jarrod has alot of long term value for us, there is no dbout that his offensive skills need work. His defensive efforts were excellent, but he more than negated this with poor decision and execution.
Williams to come in for Tiller, also.

I would've thought Higgins will need at least another week with Willy.

[Mantis]

When does Hahn come under pressure? His last 2 games have seen him grab a grand total of 11 possessions. Yeah I know he has a sore foot, but does he need a week off?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Tiller for Williams.

I don't think Harbrow should be dropped on the back of one game? Hill was ordinary for a month prior to being dropped the first time around, I wouldn't mind giving Harbrow the opportunity to atone. He brings something different to our side. His intensity, enthusiasm and defensive pressure is first class and country miles ahead of Hill. His offensive work certainly needs improving, but I think he's better placed to work on that in the AFL rather than at VFL level where he cruises each week.

Hill doesn't bring enough to the table. He misses opportunities to kick goals and often misses targets - perhaps he's slightly better than Harbrow in this area, but marginally. He's too easily pushed off the ball and doesn't apply enough pressure. Hill's younger and will be much better next year and beyond, I just personally think we're going to get more out of Harbrow at this point in time. If Jarrad struggles again this week then entertain a swap, but I think he deserves the chance to redeem himself. We had plenty of passengers on the weekend and whilst Harbrow turned the ball over a few times, he applied more pressure than anybody else. At least he won the ball - if he can improve his offense, he'll be pretty dangerous.

To me, it just sends the wrong message if we drop Harbrow. He's worked extremely hard to get back in the side and played one average game, through no lack of endeavor. He's young and made a few mistakes - big deal. The players that let us down were senior players - Akermanis, Hahn, Murphy, Johnson, Welsh, Minson, Morris, Lake etc.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

When does Hahn come under pressure? His last 2 games have seen him grab a grand total of 11 possessions. Yeah I know he has a sore foot, but does he need a week off?

I was thinking the same thing yesterday, but thought I'd be shot down at suggesting it. Apparently he's fully fit according to Eade, no? Either way, it's obvious Hahn is struggling lately as he's not able to get to as many contests. If he doesn't mark the ball, then he's virtually been a witches hat to the opposition the last two weeks.

I wouldn't mind seeing Hahn rested this week, and Johnson too.

I didn't pay a lot of attention to the way Aker moved on Saturday, but is he still limited? He's not having the same impact as he was prior to the break so perhaps he'll need a rest soemtime soon too.

[LostDoggy]

Yet you still gave him 2 votes for our best player this week on the back of one 'inspirational' centre clearance.

Probably more an indictment on the rest of the team than necessarily saying he was magnificent eh?

I wouldn't be alone in finding it hard to find worthy vote-getters over four quarters, I'm sure. Was happy with his effort if not his actual results (which is my point about him being not fully fit), and yes, putting himself in the centre and getting the ball was quite good, as was his tackle that gave him a shot on goal. That was a concrete a contribution as any on a pretty scrappy day for the Dogs in general, no?

[LostDoggy]

To quote myself:

--

2 - Johnno - Ok, I know it's an unfashionable vote, but in the first three quarters he did some very good things. Let himself down with some easy misses, but at one stage when the game was there to be won he went and put himself in the middle and won the clearance. Inspirational, captain-type stuff. He's definitely not 100% though is he.
1 - Coons - got a bit of the ball. Is it just me or is he not thinking through his disposal? He has incredible kicking skills but he's missing the mark a lot or just dropping it short. Something's NQR.

--

Hardly glittering praise for my 2 and 1 vote-getters! I was struggling a bit to find worthy players.

[GVGjr]

Because you can't get a game on purely forward defensive pressure. His kicking & decision making were poor on Saturday. 4 of his 6 kicks were turnovers.


Not only that but it makes it impossible for his team mates to know where to lead. Everyone loves his work ethic but he still has a lot to learn and Williamstown isn't a bad spot to learn it.

[Mantis]

Hardly glittering praise for my 2 and 1 vote-getters! I was struggling a bit to find worthy players.

So was I. I just didn't give anyone 1 vote.

[Mantis]

I was thinking the same thing yesterday, but thought I'd be shot down at suggesting it. Apparently he's fully fit according to Eade, no? Either way, it's obvious Hahn is struggling lately as he's not able to get to as many contests. If he doesn't mark the ball, then he's virtually been a witches hat to the opposition the last two weeks.

I wouldn't mind seeing Hahn rested this week, and Johnson too.

I didn't pay a lot of attention to the way Aker moved on Saturday, but is he still limited? He's not having the same impact as he was prior to the break so perhaps he'll need a rest soemtime soon too.

See I don't worry about that.;)

On Aker I have mentioned somewhere else that Aker seemed very 'old' again on Saturday. I suppose when your chasing tail for much of the day you get pretty worn out so that when you finally do get the ball you don't have a lot of energy to show your skills.

[bornadog]

See I don't worry about that.;)

On Aker I have mentioned somewhere else that Aker seemed very 'old' again on Saturday. I suppose when your chasing tail for much of the day you get pretty worn out so that when you finally do get the ball you don't have a lot of energy to show your skills.

According to Voss, Aker has never played well against Geelong

[The Coon Dog]

According to Voss, Aker has never played well against Geelong

I guess Voss forgot this:

'McLeod, a hot pre-count favorite, missed out in Rounds 20 and 21 when the Crows had big wins over North Melbourne and Hawthorn. Then the room at the Gabba, jammed full with 450 guests, erupted when Akermanis polled three votes against Geelong in the penultimate round to wrest back the lead by two.'

Link (http://lionsprincess.tripod.com/id7.html)

[LostDoggy]

I guess Voss forgot this:

'McLeod, a hot pre-count favorite, missed out in Rounds 20 and 21 when the Crows had big wins over North Melbourne and Hawthorn. Then the room at the Gabba, jammed full with 450 guests, erupted when Akermanis polled three votes against Geelong in the penultimate round to wrest back the lead by two.'

Link (http://lionsprincess.tripod.com/id7.html)

Yes I thought that was incorrect. There were a few years when who ever was BOG against Geelong at Geelong late in the season won the brownlow.

[The Pie Man]

I thought Will was very poor on the weekend.
Given Street's consistently good form for Williamstown over the course of the year, should he be given reward, and Will a spell in the VFL?

I think Hill to come in for Harbrow. I was one who thought Harbrow deserved a shot above Hill against Geelong, and whilst I still think Jarrod has alot of long term value for us, there is no dbout that his offensive skills need work. His defensive efforts were excellent, but he more than negated this with poor decision and execution.
Williams to come in for Tiller, also.

I would've thought Higgins will need at least another week with Willy.

Does Tom Williams need a week at Willy? Been out for a month now.

I'd like to see Tiller @ FF for a few weeks - mobile, can provide defensive pressure in the forward 50 way more effectively than Will when it hits the deck. I'm jumping on the give Street a game wagon.

Do they risk Higgins?

[Crizza]

Higgins has played two at Willi now? - If so i think he should come in - he needs to get a couple of games under the belt before he can produce some exciting form for finals.

Williams should play a game at Willi.

There is something to be said for not making too many changes and allowing those players who under performed to show their true colours and respond.

I would think about Higgins in for Johnno - I really think we need Brad at 100% for finals anything less and we suffer dramatically.

[Go_Dogs]

Did Wight play for Willy on the weekend? Could he be an option worth trialling up forward over the next few weeks, along with Tiller?

After all the 'Wight for CHF' talk over summer, we've yet to see him spend more than about 10 minutes there during a game.

[Sedat]

Yes I thought that was incorrect. There were a few years when who ever was BOG against Geelong at Geelong late in the season won the brownlow.
Also remember the game in the wet at the Gabba around 2005 from memory. Aker kicked an amazing goal from the boundary and then put his hand over his mouth in mock surprise. He got something like 200+ champion data ranking points that day, one of the highest recorded games by an individual for the year.

Voss talks through his arse.

[hujsh]

Also remember the game in the wet at the Gabba around 2005 from memory. Aker kicked an amazing goal from the boundary and then put his hand over his mouth in mock surprise. He got something like 200+ champion data ranking points that day, one of the highest recorded games by an individual for the year.

Voss talks through his arse.

that was the second one. Did it twice in a minute or so

[Bulldog Revolution]

Higgins has played two at Willi now? - If so i think he should come in - he needs to get a couple of games under the belt before he can produce some exciting form for finals.

Williams should play a game at Willi.

There is something to be said for not making too many changes and allowing those players who under performed to show their true colours and respond.

I would think about Higgins in for Johnno - I really think we need Brad at 100% for finals anything less and we suffer dramatically.

If Johnson isn't fit then we should play someone else but Higgins just wont be fit enough to play after 2 games of VFL - one in which he played 2-3 quarters and then another where he got more game time. After all he missed 12-14 weeks. Shaun needs another two before he should even be considered IMO.

[bornadog]

If Johnson isn't fit then we should play someone else but Higgins just wont be fit enough to play after 2 games of VFL - one in which he played 2-3 quarters and then another where he got more game time. After all he missed 12-14 weeks. Shaun needs another two before he should even be considered IMO.

Eade quoted today that Johnno will play.

Johnno expected to be fit
By Jennifer Witham
3:17 PM Tue 22 July, 2008

Brad Johnson is expected to play this weekend
WESTERN Bulldogs skipper Brad Johnson is expected to face Carlton this weekend despite twisting his ankle against Geelong on Saturday at Skilled Stadium.

Johnson went over on the ankle during the first term of the match and didn't retake the field until the second quarter. He managed to play out the game, but was hampered by the injury.

"It's not too bad. There's been a fair bit of bruising come out of it," coach Rodney Eade said on Tuesday.

FULL ARTICLE HERE:http://westernbulldogs.com.au/tabid/4112/Default.aspx?newsid=63884

[GVGjr]

Does Tom Williams need a week at Willy? Been out for a month now.

I'd like to see Tiller @ FF for a few weeks - mobile, can provide defensive pressure in the forward 50 way more effectively than Will when it hits the deck. I'm jumping on the give Street a game wagon.

Do they risk Higgins?

I think Williams does need a week at Williamstown because it isn't as if he has a record of stringing 10 plus games in a row. I wouldn't risk Higgins either. It's a shame Williamstown is playing this weekend.

[1eyedog]

According to Voss, Aker has never played well against Geelong

I remember a game against Geelong at the Gabba in the pouring rain when Aker kicked two miracle goals from the boundary line to win them the game. Voss has been on the ice again if he can't remember that one because he was also playing.

Errrr, I just read the above posts (but I also remembered it!)

[1eyedog]

Ok, so who do you want to rest this week?


Williams at Willi, Higgins still at Willi fair enough

But Johnson, Hahn and some people saying Aker needs a rest? Geez there goes our forward line. Anyone would think we're not trying for a top 4 spot or something. And you thought our forward line looked ordinary last week.....

[Mantis]

Ok, so who do you want to rest this week?

Williams at Willi, Higgins still at Willi fair enough

But Johnson, Hahn and some people saying Aker needs a rest? Geez there goes our forward line. Anyone would think we're not trying for a top 4 spot or something. And you thought our forward line looked ordinary last week.....

Willi aren't playing this week.

Hahn has had an average of 5.5 possessions per game over the past 2. Is this sort of output helping our forwardline to function?

[1eyedog]

Willi aren't playing this week.

Hahn has had an average of 5.5 possessions per game over the past 2. Is this sort of output helping our forwardline to function?

No it isn't at all. I meant Williams and Higgins will play one more game with Willy before coming into the senior team, although considering Eade loves Tom so much he may come straight back in. Hahn's goal in the 1st quarter on Saturday was inspirational but agreed he did nothing else for the remainder of the game. I believe he has the capacity to kick goals like that more consistently throughout a game again. Poor Mitch he was copping it left right and centre after a serious injury before the season even started now he has played two shockers in a row and people are jumping on his back again. He will bounce back and if I were some of the posters calling for Mitch to be dropped I would be thinking of many other players across the ground who have now put in two bad ones and I'm not just talking Johnno and Aker.

[Mantis]

He will bounce back and if I were some of the posters calling for Mitch to be dropped I would be thinking of many other players across the ground who have now put in two bad ones and I'm not just talking Johnno and Aker.

The posters on this board are pretty dumb so name some names.

[The Coon Dog]

The posters on this board are pretty dumb so name some names.

Twodogs, firstdogonthemoon, Sockeye Salmon, Ernie Sigley, Westdog54, borgy & hujsh. Is that enough? :D

[alwaysadog]

I guess Voss forgot this:

'McLeod, a hot pre-count favorite, missed out in Rounds 20 and 21 when the Crows had big wins over North Melbourne and Hawthorn. Then the room at the Gabba, jammed full with 450 guests, erupted when Akermanis polled three votes against Geelong in the penultimate round to wrest back the lead by two.'

Link (http://lionsprincess.tripod.com/id7.html)

This says more about Voss than it does about Aker.

[alwaysadog]

Twodogs, firstdogonthemoon, Sockeye Salmon, Ernie Sigley, Westdog54, borgy & hujsh. Is that enough? :D

Add me to that list

[alwaysadog]

What's the panic we lost only our second game for the season and suddenly we've got a million problems. Admittedly it was a very poor performance but we haven't gone from a top team to cellar dwellers in one week, so let's put some perspective on things.
IMHO no change, unless forced by injury. They got us where we are, now they've dug a little hole so let's give them the chance to climb out.
The Cats got pumped by Collingwood and it made them a better team. That's what we should be aiming for.

[Mantis]

What's the panic we lost only our second game for the season and suddenly we've got a million problems. Admittedly it was a very poor performance but we haven't gone from a top team to cellar dwellers in one week, so let's put some perspective on things.
IMHO no change, unless forced by injury. They got us where we are, now they've dug a little hole so let's give them the chance to climb out.
The Cats got pumped by Collingwood and it made them a better team. That's what we should be aiming for.

Don't disagree with what you have said, but there have been some worrying signs over the past month or so. Hopefully Saturday's game was the kick up the bum we needed and we get back to playing the type of footy we displayed earlier in the year.

One thing for sure is that we looked a much better team with Williams in defence, if he is fit he plays.

[alwaysadog]

Don't disagree with what you have said, but there have been some worrying signs over the past month or so. Hopefully Saturday's game was the kick up the bum we needed and we get back to playing the type of footy we displayed earlier in the year.

One thing for sure is that we looked a much better team with Williams in defence, if he is fit he plays.

Yes we have not been great recently, but we are in unchartered waters and maintaining the degree of intensity needed requires some adjustment. We have played very few games where we put in anything like a four quarter effort. That is what we could not do last weekend. They clogged us up, closed spaces and kept pressure on the ball carrier and denied easy options and we eased off the pressure on them.

Maybe Toomy in, but only if he has kept his fitness. It would not be good for him or us if he were to play underdone.

[The Coon Dog]

Maybe Toomy in, but only if he has kept his fitness. It would not be good for him or us if he were to play underdone.

I reckon he has to play. Ideally you would like to have him run out for Willy this week, but with no game for them, it makes the decision a bit more difficult.

[ledge]

Twodogs, firstdogonthemoon, Sockeye Salmon, Ernie Sigley, Westdog54, borgy & hujsh. Is that enough? :D

Gees I get picked on because of my spelling, I put up silly posts and still dont get on the dumb list!
What do i have to do??
I see Jake Edwards seems to be in and out of the side at Carlton, he in my opinion is the Tiller of Carlton, came into the side as a forward but finds himself all over the place.
We all know his pedigree, he is in his 3rd year at the club and just might be given the flick.
I just wonder if he might be looked at as a forward with us.
In saying that, he wont be a star but forwards are very rare, would we look at him?

[Desipura]

I reckon he has to play. Ideally you would like to have him run out for Willy this week, but with no game for them, it makes the decision a bit more difficult.
Agree TCD, I would think Rocket would want to get as many games into Tommy in the lead up to the finals.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Gees I get picked on because of my spelling, I put up silly posts and still dont get on the dumb list!
What do i have to do??


Don't worry too much, Legdey. You're in a category all of your own!

[Bulldog Revolution]

I see Jake Edwards seems to be in and out of the side at Carlton, he in my opinion is the Tiller of Carlton, came into the side as a forward but finds himself all over the place.
We all know his pedigree, he is in his 3rd year at the club and just might be given the flick.
I just wonder if he might be looked at as a forward with us.
In saying that, he wont be a star but forwards are very rare, would we look at him?

Jake looked a very good prospect from what I saw of him preseason - very quick off the mark, and really seems suited to a leading forward role out of the square

I think we'd love to get him into our team, but at what price I dont know

[ledge]

Don't worry too much, Legdey. You're in a category all of your own!

MMM wheres the spelling nazi when he is needed?

[bornadog]

MMM wheres the spelling nazi when he is needed?

Maybe gone to check his spell checker:D

[Sockeye Salmon]

MMM wheres the spelling nazi when he is needed?

I spelt 'category' wrong at first, as well. I had to go back and fix it up before anyone noticed.

[ledge]

I spelt 'category' wrong at first, as well. I had to go back and fix it up before anyone noticed.

I am finding it very hard to read with tears of laughter.

[GetDimmaBack]

MMM wheres the spelling nazi when he is needed?

Yavol, Commandant?