Hawthorn vs Geelong

[LostDoggy]

As a football watcher ive been lookin forward to this one!

It was a cracker, everything you would want in a game..

Geelong or Hawthorn winning had advantages for us, now that Hawks have lost, if we beat Carlton we can get some breathing space and get closer to locking in 2nd spot.

Question is....If the first week of finals had us penciled in at #2 vs Hawks #3 - would it be at the dome? or the MCG regardless?

[GVGjr]

Yes I wished we could have performed like the Hawks did against the Cats. I'm not sure how the final series will be managed but I did think it was a good game to watch.

We need to get over the next couple of weeks before being too concerned on who or where we will be playing.

[hujsh]

Both teams were wasteful.

Geelong overused it. It's great to not be selfish but sometimes you need to take responsibility and kick the goal.

Hawthorn just can't kick straight.

Good game though.

[The Coon Dog]

Question is....If the first week of finals had us penciled in at #2 vs Hawks #3 - would it be at the dome? or the MCG regardless?

You would have to think it would be at the MCG.

If all 4 Victorian clubs were to host a final in the first week, then one game would have to be played at the Dome.

1 v 4
2 v 3
5 v 8
6 v 7

The sides that finish 1, 2, 5 & 6 will get to host a final in the first week. Bet the AFL want Sydney to finish 5th or 6th now.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Personally found it a little hard to watch the game, particularly as it was close, after our disaster last week. Hawks played well and sustained the pressure for most of the game. Still finding it hard to take that we rolled over in the second half, we are much better than that and IMO a better side than Hawthorn.

Hawks have problems finding goals outside of Franklin/Roughead, though both are very dangerous and entertaining. Rioli I thought played very well tonight too.

[LostDoggy]

Personally found it a little hard to watch the game, particularly as it was close, after our disaster last week. Hawks played well and sustained the pressure for most of the game. Still finding it hard to take that we rolled over in the second half, we are much better than that and IMO a better side than Hawthorn.

Hawks have problems finding goals outside of Franklin/Roughead, though both are very dangerous and entertaining. Rioli I thought played very well tonight too.


Agree with you. I think Williams played a good game tonight as well. Hawthorn are talented but still undisciplined - comes with maturity.

[Dry Rot]

After last week and tonight, Hawthorn > Dogs?

[BulldogBelle]

Flood your backline. Insane pressure on Geelong forwards when they have the ball both offensively and defensively. No easy passes conceded i/s Geelong D50. This is a must. Hold up play when Geelong in possession at every opportunity. Catch them on counter attack via two pronged marking fowards and 3 or 4 half forwards/wings breaking forward at speed. Must kick goals not points!

[The Coon Dog]

After last week and tonight, Hawthorn > Dogs?

Very simple way to look at it.

[G-Mo77]

I've said this to a lot of people this year the only team that can beat Geelong is Geelong. They almost cost themselves a game tonight IMO. They are over possesing the football far to much and it will come and bite them in the butt eventually.

BUT they still one the game so it is hard to fault them. :o

[LostDoggy]

After last week and tonight, Hawthorn > Dogs?

After we played them? Dogs > Hawthorn,

to the tune of:
6 goals,
32 scoring shots to 12
15 scoring players to 4
A million inside 50s to their 15
A thousand more centre clearances
200+ more disposals

Come on. Dogs >>>>> Hawthorn.

The only reasons it was this close tonight were:

a. Geelong pumped the Hawks in the first quarter, so the Hawks HAD to go defensive and short to not get blown out. The Dogs, on the other hand, were only 14 points down at 3 quarter time and had the largest lead of the game until then, thus attacking in the 4th quarter but miscalculating badly.

b. It's at the G, where it's easier to keep possession, which is what the Hawks basically did, and STILL lost.

and c. The Dogs softened up the Cats over 3+ quarters last week. It would be hard for Geelong to come out and play a blinder after their very tough effort last week.

[Dry Rot]

Very simple way to look at it.

Agreed. Hawks were competitive for 4 quarters, we weren't.

Simple really. Hawks > Dogs NB over the last few weeks.

And I have a bad feeling about the Manuka Oval game v Swans.

[Dry Rot]

After we played them? Dogs > Hawthorn,



And what's been the form line of the two teams since?

When was the last time we played really well? We have been playing like shit since, IMO.

[BulldogBelle]

And I have a bad feeling about the Manuka Oval game v Swans.


Why? If we are playing close our to optimum level, we should account for Sydney IMO.

[LostDoggy]

And what's been the form line of the two teams since?

When was the last time we played really well? We have been playing like shit since, IMO.

True.

Mitigating factors: still winning games (apart from the Cats game of course) relatively comfortably. Long, long pre-season had to have a drop off somewhere in the season and the middle six games would have been the ideal drop off after a great start and building back up for the finals.

Performance against Carlton -- an improving but clearly inferior side -- this week will hopefully provide some clues as to when the upward graph starts to kick in. If we blow this one badly I'll agree the season's shot, but if there's a considerable upswing, look out September.

[Dry Rot]

Why? If we are playing close our to optimum level, we should account for Sydney IMO.

When did we last do that?

[BulldogBelle]

Well, Rd 11 v St. K good, R.12 v Bris good, r.13 v Coll patchy, r.14 v Port(Darwin) patchy but training run really, rd 15 v Melb poor, rd. 16 v Geel, poor. So, about 4 games. Gotta have a 'lull' at some stage I guess. Has our training 'tapering' theory gained any credibility yet?

[G-Mo77]

When did we last do that?

Against Brisbane. We hammered Port but I really didn't think they were really good that night. Hopefully we start to peak again just before the finals start it would almost be impossible from here to not get a top 4 spot.

[The Pie Man]

I didn't see too much of it last night (I was at the Casino after a work function of all places) but last night was a PERFECT night for football. Still, G in great nick - Skilled Stadium on a windy day it wasn't. Well done to Hawthorn for hanging in there and even hitting the lead in the last quarter, I'm convinced Geelong - as great as they are - are beatable. Hawthorn will walk away thinking they're absolutely a legit flag chance, and I hope we realise last week's 2nd half was unnacceptable, and at our best we're in the same boat.

We win tomorrow and that puts 6 points between 1st/2nd & 2nd/3rd. It appears highly likely that will be the structure of the top 3, strange that 6 weeks out you can almost guarantee we'll play Hawthorn the first week of the finals.

If we do play Hawhtorn, it will likely be at the G - dependant on Sydney finishing 4th, and playing Geelong at the Dome perhaps. Also depends on who finished 5th & 6th as well I guess and whether the Dome will get a run for one of those games.

We'll beat Sydney in Canberra should we return to form tomorrow. I want to see a convincing 6 goal win - no disrespect to Carlton, they've improved signifigantly and will beat us if we don't switch on.

[Go_Dogs]

Pretty good game last night, the pressure from both sides was fairly reasonable, but I for one didn't think Geelong really got their game going.

Luke Hodge, who is one of my favourites was shocking when it counted. The Hawks still lack a few more goal scoring options, and until guys like Mitchell, Hodge, Rioli and Williams can consistently help put on scoreboard pressure they are going to struggle.

[Desipura]

Lets not forget the Cats had Milburn, Ling, Ablett out as well as losing Chapman to a hammy while Hawthorn had who out?
Things can change in footy very fast, injury and form contributing to this.
The last 2 weeks we have been out of form, hopefully that changes from tomorrow onwards..........
Geelong were out of form earlier in the year and came out of it unscathed. If our bad form patch equates to a bad loss against the best team going around at the moment, I'll take that.

[Topdog]

And what's been the form line of the two teams since?

When was the last time we played really well? We have been playing like shit since, IMO.

Well seeing as Hawthorn have lost 2 in a row our form line has been better.

Hawks are a very over rated unit and will be exposed in the finals.

That is the most turnovers I have seen Geelong create by themselves in the past 37 matches (as Bruce told us its been that many). They had guys playing on when 40m out straight in front handballing backwards. That has nothing to do with pressure, just poor play. Make no mistakes the Cats played well well below their best yesterday and Hawthorn did everything they could.

[The Pie Man]

Well seeing as Hawthorn have lost 2 in a row our form line has been better.

Hawks are a very over rated unit and will be exposed in the finals.

That is the most turnovers I have seen Geelong create by themselves in the past 37 matches (as Bruce told us its been that many). They had guys playing on when 40m out straight in front handballing backwards. That has nothing to do with pressure, just poor play. Make no mistakes the Cats played well well below their best yesterday and Hawthorn did everything they could.

I agree, Cats are a better unit, but imagine Buddy kicking straight - the Hawks could be anything

[LostDoggy]

Well, Rd 11 v St. K good, R.12 v Bris good, r.13 v Coll patchy, r.14 v Port(Darwin) patchy but training run really, rd 15 v Melb poor, rd. 16 v Geel, poor. So, about 4 games. Gotta have a 'lull' at some stage I guess. Has our training 'tapering' theory gained any credibility yet?

How is it a 'theory' when Rocket, Scott West, Tim Callan, Aker, Peter Street, Adam Cooney, Brad Johnson and Gia all talked about it in one forum or another in the last four weeks, starting just before the break until (the last one I heard) the Tuesday the week we were playing Geelong? It doesn't need any 'credibility' because that's exactly what's happened.

Just because you don't know something doesn't mean it's not true...

[LostDoggy]

I agree, Cats are a better unit, but imagine Buddy kicking straight - the Hawks could be anything

Imagine Stewie Leowe or Richo kicking straight. The Saints or the Tiges could have been anything.

That's the whole point rhnbtlr.. those of us who don't rate Franklin have always said his inaccuracy has always been his archilles heel and there has never been any indication that anything has changed, and he will thus remain unreliable and inconsistent.

Until he fixes it, you can imagine all you want, because that's the only way the Hawks could be 'anything'.

[LostDoggy]

Pretty good game last night, the pressure from both sides was fairly reasonable, but I for one didn't think Geelong really got their game going.

Luke Hodge, who is one of my favourites was shocking when it counted. The Hawks still lack a few more goal scoring options, and until guys like Mitchell, Hodge, Rioli and Williams can consistently help put on scoreboard pressure they are going to struggle.

exactly Griff. Very good point re: Hawthorn midfielders scoring -- said it time and again, they will not be a contender because gold-scoring midfielders are like hen's teeth and every great, premiership winning side has had a handful of them. These midfielders also pop up to add 'scoreboard pressure' in grand finals when full-forwards (apart from a few notable exceptions) are well held.

Hawthorn have NOT A SINGLE consistent goalscoring midfielder. Not even Hodgey.

[Raw Toast]

What interested me most was the way the Cats played - if I was one of the barrackers I'd be a bit disappointed and pretty nervous about big finals games. When they turn it on they can blow almost anyone out of the water, but their biggest strength - their self-belief - can also be a huge weakness I reckon.

It looked to me like they really just tried to smash the Hawks for most of the night, rather than playing smart footy. They had no patience, and just pushed and pushed and pushed, which led to lots of turnovers. And when they couldn't create a free man, they were really slack and imprecise. In other words, they didn't seem at all like they wanted to grind out a win (which ironically enough, they sort of ended up doing, but not by design, and they needed a pretty large slice of luck as well).

When we played the Hawks our emphasis of course was on fast ball movement and risk-taking, but we were also prepared to move the ball slowly and with care every now and then, when the odds were stacked against forcing the ball through them.

Geelong's very good, they really missed Ablett, and they are deserved premiership favourites, but they sure are giving other teams a chance as well...

[bornadog]

Simple really. Hawks > Dogs NB over the last few weeks.

.

Lets look at some facts here.

1. Hawks have won four lost four in last eight games. We have won 6, lost two. ( one by a kick)

2. Last night Geelong without Ling, Ablett, Milburn, Wozinski, lost Chapman early. Hawks virtually full strength.

3. We didn't play Kardinia Park very well, in windy conditions, I thought we controlled the game early but didn't put them away.

4. We have beaten Hawthorn, and beat them well.



I can't see how you can make an off the cuff remark that Hawks are better then Dogs.

[Sedat]

Structurally, Milburn is one of the pivotal players at Geelong. His presence eases the load on Scarlett, Harley, Mackie and Taylor (when he plays). He cuts off supply beautifully by working the angles, creates 2-on-1's in Geelong's back half, provides great rebound drive and can adapt to a defensive game if need be. He absolutely murdered us last week in windy conditions that he has played/trained in for 12 years, and he was missing last night - Geelong has not looked so jittery in defence for a long time. Factor in Chapman being injured for the 2nd half and it throws their midfield/small forward rotations into chaos.

We were as close to Geelong as Hawthorn were approaching 3/4 time. Just because Geelong blew the margin out late doesn't mean that we are suddenly also-rans this season. I mean Lake up forward at the start of the last qtr?? Haven't seen that since 'Our Mastermind' was in charge of the controls.

I still firmly believe that we are in the frame this season. Last night's game has done nothing to take away this belief. We were far better at exploiting the Hawthorn cluster than Geelong were, and Hawthorn still possess a heavy reliance on their key forwards to kick a winning score. This season is not done and dusted by a long stretch.

[GVGjr]

Lets look at some facts here.

1. Hawks have won four lost four in last eight games. We have won 6, lost two. ( one by a kick)

2. Last night Geelong without Ling, Ablett, Milburn, Wozinski, lost Chapman early. Hawks virtually full strength.

3. We didn't play Kardinia Park very well, in windy conditions, I thought we controlled the game early but didn't put them away.

4. We have beaten Hawthorn, and beat them well.



I can't see how you can make an off the cuff remark that Hawks are better then Dogs.

I know what you are saying but I still rate the Hawks highly. On a big stage last night they handled things well and could have easily won it. When you compare that to our performance the previous week, it's hard to argue that they are at least as good in not slightly better. The next two weeks will tell the story.

[Topdog]

I agree, Cats are a better unit, but imagine Buddy kicking straight - the Hawks could be anything

Forgive me if I am wrong but Geelong not kick 12.16 compared to Hawthorns 11.11

Imagine if Geelong kicked straight!

[Go_Dogs]

I know what you are saying but I still rate the Hawks highly. On a big stage last night they handled things well and could have easily won it. When you compare that to our performance the previous week, it's hard to argue that they are at least as good in not slightly better. The next two weeks will tell the story.

All fair enough points, but playing the MCG rather than Skilled definitely worked in the Hawks favor. I still feel we're slightly ahead of them, but they certainly are going to be around the mark.

[Topdog]

I know what you are saying but I still rate the Hawks highly. On a big stage last night they handled things well and could have easily won it. When you compare that to our performance the previous week, it's hard to argue that they are at least as good in not slightly better. The next two weeks will tell the story.

They also crumbled against the Saints. I still don't rate them very highly and personally hope that we somehow play them in the GF as I'd be very confident of knocking them off.

[whythelongface]

Lets look at some facts here.

1. Hawks have won four lost four in last eight games. We have won 6, lost two. ( one by a kick)

2. Last night Geelong without Ling, Ablett, Milburn, Wozinski, lost Chapman early. Hawks virtually full strength.

3. We didn't play Kardinia Park very well, in windy conditions, I thought we controlled the game early but didn't put them away.

4. We have beaten Hawthorn, and beat them well.



I can't see how you can make an off the cuff remark that Hawks are better then Dogs.

I agree. I am a strong believer in not peaking too early, plus the fact that over the course of a season a team will have down time where they don't play particularly well. The good thing is that whilst we haven't played well we have only lost the one game and that against the no. 1 team.

We still have 5 or 6 games left prior to the finals, hopefully by then we will have overcome our mid-season slump and we start to hit our straps again.

At the end of the day it matters not whether we are better than the Hawks or vice versa at this stage of the season.

[BulldogBelle]

How is it a 'theory' when Rocket, Scott West, Tim Callan, Aker, Peter Street, Adam Cooney, Brad Johnson and Gia all talked about it in one forum or another in the last four weeks, starting just before the break until (the last one I heard) the Tuesday the week we were playing Geelong? It doesn't need any 'credibility' because that's exactly what's happened.

Just because you don't know something doesn't mean it's not true...

??? Not quite sure what your getting at mate.

[1eyedog]

Lets not forget the Cats had Milburn, Ling, Ablett out as well as losing Chapman to a hammy while Hawthorn had who out?
Things can change in footy very fast, injury and form contributing to this.
The last 2 weeks we have been out of form, hopefully that changes from tomorrow onwards..........
Geelong were out of form earlier in the year and came out of it unscathed. If our bad form patch equates to a bad loss against the best team going around at the moment, I'll take that.

Geelong also had Wocjinski out who provides pace. Hawks were missing Crawford, Dew and one other can't remember who but they would be in their starting 22.

[1eyedog]

exactly Griff. Very good point re: Hawthorn midfielders scoring -- said it time and again, they will not be a contender because gold-scoring midfielders are like hen's teeth and every great, premiership winning side has had a handful of them. These midfielders also pop up to add 'scoreboard pressure' in grand finals when full-forwards (apart from a few notable exceptions) are well held.

Hawthorn have NOT A SINGLE consistent goalscoring midfielder. Not even Hodgey.

Yep they really miss Crawf there

[hujsh]

After last week and tonight, Hawthorn > Dogs?

Or

Bulldogs>Collingwood>Geelong>Hawthorn

Or Bulldogs>Hawks after Tassie

Or Bulldogs>Saints>Hawks>Collingwood>Geelong



Just doesn't work like that.

[The Pie Man]

Imagine Stewie Leowe or Richo kicking straight. The Saints or the Tiges could have been anything.

That's the whole point rhnbtlr.. those of us who don't rate Franklin have always said his inaccuracy has always been his archilles heel and there has never been any indication that anything has changed, and he will thus remain unreliable and inconsistent.

Until he fixes it, you can imagine all you want, because that's the only way the Hawks could be 'anything'.


Forgive me if I am wrong but Geelong not kick 12.16 compared to Hawthorns 11.11

Imagine if Geelong kicked straight!

Yep, all fair points. Hodge in the last quarter had a howler as well with turnovers, which isn't good football, completely agree.

I know Grant played some of his best football at CHB, though his conversion when forward was probably why he wasn't considered part of the real elite (well that's debatable as well I spose - given his Brownlow history) I remember McAveney (and taking his comments seriously is very hard) saying at half time against the Eagles in..was it 97 when we kicked 8 goals to nothing in the first quarter in Subi then the Eagles were in front at half time? Grant had a shot for goal on the siren and didn't make the distance from 50, McAveney said that's the difference b/w he and Carey, Carey would've kicked it.

[LostDoggy]

Pretty good game last night, the pressure from both sides was fairly reasonable, but I for one didn't think Geelong really got their game going.

Luke Hodge, who is one of my favourites was shocking when it counted. The Hawks still lack a few more goal scoring options, and until guys like Mitchell, Hodge, Rioli and Williams can consistently help put on scoreboard pressure they are going to struggle.

Yep I've been preaching this to Mates all season. If Frankling kicks 5, Roughhead 4 williams 3 misc 3 = 15 goals. Teams are kicking 20+ goals without any worries and Hawthorn don't have the best backline going around.

I'm getting sick to death of Hawks fans banging on about having players out. Who? Oh that's right Crawford. This bloke is not a match winner FGS