The roles of Cross & Boyd

[Mantis]

What are they??

For me they both should be playing lock down roles first and foremost and then working off there opponents when they opportune time arises.

To me it looks pretty much that they are both playing head to head roles, but neither have the attacking skills to really hurt the opposition.

Are there roles being played as I see them? If I am correct should there roles be re-defined such that they give our midfield a more accountable edge to it?

[The Coon Dog]

Yap, agree that we should have a more accountable midfield. Carlton pantsed us at the stoppages & last week no one was within cooee of McVeigh. Allow Harvey that latitude this week & he'll have a picnic.

The 2 you mentioned are the best bets to play the lockdown role, just look back to the job Boydy did on Kerr earlier this year.

[Topdog]

Some have mentioned that we have perhaps been trying to teach Cooney to be more accountable whilst our finals spot is guaranteed. It makes a lot of sense and I personally think that Eade likes to teach his players during games a lot.

This year we have seen around 10 players play literally every position on the ground (bar CHB and FB).

[Go_Dogs]

What are they??

For me they both should be playing lock down roles first and foremost and then working off there opponents when they opportune time arises.

Exactly. I've harped on about this many times over the last 12 months after 2007 saw them both move away from more defensive roles. We need at least one of them doing the lock down thing.

I'm content with Ray being the other lockdown player.

But yes, Boyd and Cross are both at their best when they're not letting their direct opponent any freedom.

[Mofra]

This year we have seen around 10 players play literally every position on the ground (bar CHB and FB).
Cooney certainly has - including at least one ruck contest at both a centre bounce & throw in.

Eagle has been thrown around alot more as well.

[bornadog]

Cross hasn't got the pace to go with many of the elite midfielders. He is your classic in and under player at packs, stoppages, centre bounces. I agree that Boyd is the ideal lock down player and Ray has done a good job for us in the past. Eagle has been used in that role more this year. Gone are the day where Eagle is running at full pace along the wing, bouncing and carrying the ball.

[LostDoggy]

Cross hasn't got the pace to go with many of the elite midfielders. He is your classic in and under player at packs, stoppages, centre bounces. I agree that Boyd is the ideal lock down player and Ray has done a good job for us in the past. Eagle has been used in that role more this year. Gone are the day where Eagle is running at full pace along the wing, bouncing and carrying the ball.


Agree bornadog. Boyd can be used in a lock down role. Crossy is our new Westy. Not quick enough to run as a tagger but very handy at the bottom of packs at stoppages.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

As said above, one of them needs to play the lockdown role if we're going to be a contender - for mine, it's Boyd.

At times, Boyd struggles a little bit when he's not given a specific role. He can win the ball, there's no doubt about that, but Boyd's at his best when he's told to negate a quality opposition player AND work off them when we have the footy. He does this very well, I'm not sure why we haven't used him in this type of role more often. If it's because we're 'saving' it for the Finals, I can understand to some degree, but I think it's important to warm Boyd up for this sort of role and play him on Harvey this week.

In the Finals, Boyd v Mitchell & Boyd v Bartel are the type of match-ups I would be looking for. He's developed into a very good player Boydy, but as said, our midfield desperately needs to refine it's defensive skills. Crossy needs to pay close attention to his man, but I don't think we would want both of them tagging - Cross has to win the ball for us but contain his direct opponent, which usually, he does OK.

[1eyedog]

What are they??

For me they both should be playing lock down roles first and foremost and then working off there opponents when they opportune time arises.

To me it looks pretty much that they are both playing head to head roles, but neither have the attacking skills to really hurt the opposition.

Are there roles being played as I see them? If I am correct should there roles be re-defined such that they give our midfield a more accountable edge to it?

Yep I discussed this in another post, our lack of midfield defensive pressure and that opposition mids are getting on top of us. Boyd and Crossy need to forget about being top line mids and do the roles they do so well, applying pressure, winning hard ball when they can stopping opposition guns, Boyd in particular id fantastic at this, probably our best stopper now. Leave the glitz and glamour to Cooney to and Griff.

[Rocket Science]

Yep I discussed this in another post, our lack of midfield defensive pressure and that opposition mids are getting on top of us. Boyd and Crossy need to forget about being top line mids and do the roles they do so well, applying pressure, winning hard ball when they can stopping opposition guns, Boyd in particular id fantastic at this, probably our best stopper now. Leave the glitz and glamour to Cooney to and Griff.

Improved accountability is something we simply must get right in the lead-up to September otherwise we risk being a soft touch...as already said, both Cross and Boyd can play this role well and should be deployed in this fashion as the situation requires, but they're also our best distributors out of traffic, particularly in the absence of Westy.

One attribute shouldn't come at the absolute expense of the other...They can serve us well while simultaneously 'distributing' and 'pressuring', but agreed we need a little more emphasis on the latter.

[craigsahibee]

I think Rocket has tried to vary the roles our midfielders have played over the last few weeks. Shaun Higgins mentioned it in the Victory Room prior to the Carlton Game. With credits in the bank I think Rocket is using the luxury to test some of the guys with unfamiliar roles and leaving guys in positions longer than what would normally be the case. Just my perception.

[Mantis]

And their roles are too....

[GVGjr]

The coach assigns the roles and he should expect the players to adhere to them. It seems to be that Eade wants them as primarily free running players which isn't working against the more accountable teams. North are very good at assigning players specific roles.

[Mantis]

The coach assigns the roles and he should expect the players to adhere to them. It seems to be that Eade wants them as primarily free running players which isn't working against the more accountable teams. North are very good at assigning players specific roles.

Which doesn't work because their decision making and skill level are the pits.

They both have hearts as big as Phar Lap, but sometimes that doesn't mean too much.

[GVGjr]

Which doesn't work because their decision making and skill level are the pits.

They both have hearts as big as Phar Lap, but sometimes that doesn't mean too much.

So Eade needs to redefine their roles within the side because they aren't going to get a whole lot better skill wise.

I have always thought that Cross could be a good HBF because he is a very good mark for his size.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I have always thought that Cross could be a good HBF because he is a very good mark for his size.

Probably a little slow to play off half back, doubt he's ever actually 'won' a foot race, and even though he's a strong mark we've got enough 'ordinary' disposal coming out of the backline as it is.

I agree their roles need to be changed though, because they both turn the ball over by foot far too often - especially Cross - whilst opposition midfielders are generally having a field day.

As good as Crossy's hands are, Westy is by far the best in the business and we sorely miss him right now.

[mjp]

If we would stop turning the ball over on the half-fowrward line (or worse, through the centre) with poor disposal and some even poorer decision making, I think things would be a lot, lot, lot better.

Midfield players have to work both ways in order for us to play effective footy - both Boyd and Cross will win their share of it and provide some link-up running...as WELL as covering an opponent. But it has gotten to the stage where even Gilbee is unable to meet the 'hit water when falling out of boat' challenge and we are being slaughtered on the turnover.

All that said, I still think we would be better off with Boyd playing back in the Callan/Addison role and Callan/Addison used as depth only...the reason is that they simply turn it over/kick to 50-50's far too often. Cross is a bit slow but also a bit too 'see ball-get ball' to play in the back half long term. Having Boyd there would address my main issue with our structure - with Lake, Morris and Callan all in the back half, that is 3 players who I dont trust with the footy and puts enormous pressure on Gilbee and Shaggy to do all the delivery of the footy out of there. To me, Boyd could fill the breach and make us a stronger side. 1-2 stints through the midfield per half should keep him happy enough...

[hujsh]

All that said, I still think we would be better off with Boyd playing back in the Callan/Addison role and Callan/Addison used as depth only...the reason is that they simply turn it over/kick to 50-50's far too often. Cross is a bit slow but also a bit too 'see ball-get ball' to play in the back half long term. Having Boyd there would address my main issue with our structure - with Lake, Morris and Callan all in the back half, that is 3 players who I dont trust with the footy and puts enormous pressure on Gilbee and Shaggy to do all the delivery of the footy out of there. To me, Boyd could fill the breach and make us a stronger side. 1-2 stints through the midfield per half should keep him happy enough...

I like the idea. I wonder if he'd be beaten in the air too often though?

[mjp]

Boyd is OK overhead...I guess Callan is strong in that area, but is it really what we need from the role? Boyd is brave like the other two and will do the same thing in terms of cutting off leads etc that they are prepared to do...

[dog town]

Boyd could easily do what you suggest MJP but I worry about where that leaves the midfield. I certainly wouldn't be throwing Boyd and Cross out of the midfield in a hurry at this point. Boyd played down back a bit under Rohde but was a bit slow. He has worked that hard that he is now quick enough and has enough confidence to play almost anywhere. Its a good option to have and he would address some of our deficiencies but I dont think the midfield can afford to lose him. Our lack of runners is certainly coming back to hurt us a bit at times.

[bornadog]

Boyd could easily do what you suggest MJP but I worry about where that leaves the midfield. I certainly wouldn't be throwing Boyd and Cross out of the midfield in a hurry at this point. Boyd played down back a bit under Rohde but was a bit slow. He has worked that hard that he is now quick enough and has enough confidence to play almost anywhere. Its a good option to have and he would address some of our deficiencies but I dont think the midfield can afford to lose him. Our lack of runners is certainly coming back to hurt us a bit at times.

Boyd could be replaced with Higgins and Ward in the future. We also have OKeefe and Reid for years to come.

[Mantis]

I have worked out what there roles are:

1/ Be unaccountable, they tried to play lock down roles last night, but failed in these tasks.
2/ Turn the ball over when you get possession by either using your poor foot skills or handballing to guys under the pump.....But pick up 25+ touches in the process.
3/ Miss easy shots on goal.

I'm really at a miss as to what we do with these 2.

[GVGjr]

Two things that I have noticed with these two over the last few weeks is their different styles of handball which isn't anywhere near as effective as it should be.
Boyd has a tendency to lob the ball over the top which often puts his teammates under a lot of pressure whilst Cross often handballs too quickly and more often than not he handballs behind the player running forward rather than out in front of them. This causes a few more turnovers than we need.

For guys without great skills they both need to fix this as their game is often more about distributing the ball cleanly to the more skillful teammates than kicking it themselves.

[Dancin' Douggy]

They are both great work horses but their skills let us down in crucial situations. They both freeze light rabbits in the headlights round the goals, they're terrified of having a shot.

I think Cross is.......... (here goes) a player we should trade. This is not a punitive call but I think he's at the height of his value and I think we can thrive without him. I'm not saying "GET RID OF CROSS HE'S USELESS' I just think it would be an astute trade. It probably won't happen and I know he puts in every week but if you were a cold hearted strategist that would be the best value trade we could make.

[ledge]

Your observation of kicking with Cross is a good one, last Friday he had it so easy I am sure most of us would have kicked that goal but he froze.
Seems to me we have always had one centre player who is instructed or tuned to handball all the time.
eg West, Hudson, Wynd, Libba, Cross is this generation.
Why cant we train them as Judds, Kerrs or Mitchells, I mean Cross has got double letters in his name too.
Not hard, your within range have a go!
Boyd is not anywhere as bad but just a little more of the eyes lighting up in front of goals would be good.

[GetDimmaBack]

They are both great work horses but their skills let us down in crucial situations. They both freeze light rabbits in the headlights round the goals, they're terrified of having a shot.

I think Cross is.......... (here goes) a player we should trade. This is not a punitive call but I think he's at the height of his value and I think we can thrive without him. I'm not saying "GET RID OF CROSS HE'S USELESS' I just think it would be an astute trade. It probably won't happen and I know he puts in every week but if you were a cold hearted strategist that would be the best value trade we could make.

Will only happen if they want to rip the heart out of the club.

Sometimes trades look good on paper, but the losses quickly outweigh the gains.
Footballers are still human and clubs can do massive damage with ruthless trading.
When you think of it, most clubs aren't that savage, are they?

[Dancin' Douggy]

Your observation of kicking with Cross is a good one, last Friday he had it so easy I am sure most of us would have kicked that goal but he froze.
Seems to me we have always had one centre player who is instructed or tuned to handball all the time.
eg West, Hudson, Wynd, Libba, Cross is this generation.
Why cant we train them as Judds, Kerrs or Mitchells, I mean Cross has got double letters in his name too.
Not hard, your within range have a go!
Boyd is not anywhere as bad but just a little more of the eyes lighting up in front of goals would be good.

Simon Atkins and even Plough. Does it go back that far??????
Do we need to break the cycle?

Voss. Black. Power.
Cousins. Judd. Kerr.
Cooney. Griffen. ????????? Who's the missing piece?

[ledge]

Rischatelli??

[Mofra]

Voss. Black. Power.
Cousins. Judd. Kerr.
Cooney. Griffen. ????????? Who's the missing piece?
Higgins if you're talking about smarts & finishing.
Ward is a chance.

The real smokey is Reid. Liked what I've seen of him, will be a solid-type midfielder.

[Mantis]

Higgins if you're talking about smarts & finishing.
Ward is a chance.

The real smokey is Reid. Liked what I've seen of him, will be a solid-type midfielder.

For GC17?

[Mantis]

Rischatelli??

How do you propose we get Rischitelli?

[ledge]

How do you propose we get Rischitelli?

No idea, he didnt ask about getting him just asked who he thought we were missing.:D
Just thought he was perfect fit, doesnt mind kicking the ball and will have a shot at goal.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Could be Higgins. Would love to see him fully fit and playing a whole season. Who knows what we may have there.

[ledge]

I think Higgins has everything to be a goal kicking HFF and changing centre but injuries have held him back so far.
A quality ball user.

[Bulldogs_6]

Will play an important role in the finals series for us. Hopefully there consistency throughout the past few years will be rewarded with a Premiership medallion :)

[bornadog]

Will play an important role in the finals series for us. Hopefully there consistency throughout the past few years will be rewarded with a Premiership medallion :)

Agree, especially this friday. I would like to see Boyd on Mitchell. Sewell will probably take Cooney. Cross will probably play his own game.

[LostDoggy]

How do you propose we get Rischitelli?

Buy an AKAI, TELVION or SINGER?
Sorry I borrowed cyberdoggies joke.

[1eyedog]

They are both great work horses but their skills let us down in crucial situations. They both freeze light rabbits in the headlights round the goals, they're terrified of having a shot.

I think Cross is.......... (here goes) a player we should trade. This is not a punitive call but I think he's at the height of his value and I think we can thrive without him. I'm not saying "GET RID OF CROSS HE'S USELESS' I just think it would be an astute trade. It probably won't happen and I know he puts in every week but if you were a cold hearted strategist that would be the best value trade we could make.

I agree. We should also trade Cooney and Morris and also Gilbee:mad: If we trade Cross who will go in and get the freakin ball? He consistently wins the most contested disposals for us. If it wasn't for Cross this year we would be minus about 30% of our inside 50s.

[hujsh]

I thin Cross would be 100% undoubtable a-grade midfielder if he could be like Dane Swan and kick a few more goals. He almost shudders when he has to take a shot and looks to handpass, then freezes, then get's tackled. We need him to be more instinctive.

Doesn't Aka stay a bit longer to practice his snap shots ect? Maybe Cross should stick with him?

[Dancin' Douggy]

I agree. We should also trade Cooney and Morris and also Gilbee:mad: If we trade Cross who will go in and get the freakin ball? He consistently wins the most contested disposals for us. If it wasn't for Cross this year we would be minus about 30% of our inside 50s.

Yeah, if cross wasn't there everyone else would just stand there and look at the ball wondering what they're meant to do.:rolleyes: