Finals - Best 22?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Even though it's a week out, there's plenty of discussion about who and who shouldn't be dropped. It's interesting hearing the different opinions on certain players, so I thought I'd create a separate 'stand alone' thread for this. Below's my shot at our best 22 for Finals (taking into account injuries ala West & Addison).

FB: Callan -- Lake -- Hargrave
HB: Morris -- Williams -- Gilbee
W: Eagle -- Cross -- Ray
HF: Hahn -- Murphy -- Aker
FF: Johnno -- Minson -- Welsh
R: Hudson -- Cooney -- Griffen

INT: Boyd -- Gia -- Harbrow -- Higgins

Hill & Everitt a touch unlucky, but they both aren't ready yet. Both are smooth movers but can be found wanting when the intensity is lifted. Once they add some size, they'll be far better players. At this stage I feel we'd be carrying them, hoping Hill would find space by himself & fly across packs for marks. I don't see that happening in the Finals. Harbrow is surely a certain starter - I'd be disappointed if he was left out. Everitt might be included as the third tall but he's struggled a bit this year, and I think his fitness is down. Higgins might be a touch lucky but we may look for more run with a little more polish. Higgins is a smart footballer with good skills, if he plays OK against Adelaide, it's hard to see him missing out.

Hopefully I haven't left anyone out by accident. Gia tends to start on the bench, that's why he's there. Boyd is clearly most unlucky, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him start in the middle or perhaps even on the wing at Eagleton's expense.

All in all, it's a good lineup. Not too many light/inexperienced bodies (Hill, Everitt, Ward) & if Higgins/Williams can contribute, then it's a fairly big boost, with Higgins' skills & ability so snag goals, whilst Williams helping out the likes of Lake, Morris & Hargrave to be most important.

Thoughts? Is Hill/Everitt a better chance? Higgins unlikely? Starting positions, etc.?

[bulldogtragic]

I completely agree. Everitt and Hill are sensational back-up if there are any injuries or major form drop.

To me a fit Williams & Higgins makes a very big difference. Those two boys fit and running into form and my confidence builds to near excitement about September.

[Mantis]

Do I post the team I want or the team I think they will pick?

I want Hill in the team, I don't think they will pick him.

I don't want Eagleton in the team, but he is a certainty.

[1eyedog]

BB your team is spot on.

[Dancin' Douggy]

BB your team is spot on.

Yep. Hope Williams is there. Hill and Everitt are almost there, but not quite, however if Hill has a really good game against the Crows it could get hard to leave him out.. I thought he was great against the Bombers

[Mantis]

Just interested in people's thought as to why Eagleton is a certainty yet Hill isn't.

Personally I think Hill adds more to our team than Eagleton, perhaps I am being biased?

[ledge]

Think it maybe comes from an older player and experience.
I heard many years ago our players talking about stage fright in theyre first finals game.

Think if Hill had played all year and settled he would probably play.
Eagle has experience and wont be overawed, also depends on if Eade thinks Hill would be targeted or is able to take the pushing and shoving, but that also includes the players personality too, if that is
strong enough for finals yet.

Im not bothered either way who gets a game but maybe answers to your question.

[The Coon Dog]

Just interested in people's thought as to why Eagleton is a certainty yet Hill isn't.

Personally I think Hill adds more to our team than Eagleton, perhaps I am being biased?

I reckon if there were doubts about Eagleton from the coaches perspective he would have played a game or two already with Williamstown.

[Mantis]

I reckon if there were doubts about Eagleton from the coaches perspective he would have played a game or two already with Williamstown.

Yeah I know the coaches & that try hard cartoonist love him, but I'm serious in my thinking that Hill offer's more than Eagleton.

Can somebody offer up some points which may prove that I am full of shit? Which I probably am anyway.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Yeah I know the coaches & that try hard cartoonist love him, but I'm serious in my thinking that Hill offer's more than Eagleton.

Can somebody offer up some points which may prove that I am full of shit? Which I probably am anyway.

I almost agree with you Mantis, but I think Eagleton is probably a little ahead of Hill, mainly because he's played more football. Hill finds space and is a great mark, but the view is probably that Eagleton is far more dangerous with his ability to carry the football & pin point 50/60m passes. Granted; he hasn't done a whole lot of that, but again, it comes down to experience. They know Eagleton can break games open with his foot skills & running. Hill's kicking lacks a bit, he turns it over a little bit too much and doesn't have that same penetration.

If this was 2009, Eagleton would probably be struggling to get a game whereas Hill - at the rate of his improvement - would be firmly entrenched within our best 22. Eagleton's not the hardest player, that's for sure, but Hill ducks his head far too often and is pushed off the ball easily. If he had that strength to compete in a contest, Hill would be ahead of Eagleton.

Hopefully that's somewhat of an explanation as to why Eagle's slightly ahead. It seems to be based on more what he can do, rather than what Eagle has actually done, but for now he offers us more than Hill and particularly on a wide ground such as the MCG.

[Mantis]

I almost agree with you Mantis, but I think Eagleton is probably a little ahead of Hill, mainly because he's played more football. Hill finds space and is a great mark, but the view is probably that Eagleton is far more dangerous with his ability to carry the football & pin point 50/60m passes. Granted; he hasn't done a whole lot of that, but again, it comes down to experience. They know Eagleton can break games open with his foot skills & running. Hill's kicking lacks a bit, he turns it over a little bit too much and doesn't have that same penetration.

If this was 2009, Eagleton would probably be struggling to get a game whereas Hill - at the rate of his improvement - would be firmly entrenched within our best 22. Eagleton's not the hardest player, that's for sure, but Hill ducks his head far too often and is pushed off the ball easily. If he had that strength to compete in a contest, Hill would be ahead of Eagleton.

Hopefully that's somewhat of an explanation as to why Eagle's slightly ahead. It seems to be based on more what he can do, rather than what Eagle has actually done, but for now he offers us more than Hill and particularly on a wide ground such as the MCG.

Can or could?

Most of what you have posted makes perfect sense, but I haven't seen the Eagleton you describe this year .ie. the foot skills & running one. What I see now is the slowish midfielder who picks up alot of kicks across half back and who doesn't have the same precision in his kicking as he once did.

I understand fully that Hill has many flaws in his game, many of which have been described by you and by other posters and these qualities could let us down at an inappropriate time, but he also has some abilities that other's in our team don't have and I think that some of these qualities could come in handy in a final.

[hujsh]

I don't think I've ever seen Eagleton display great foot skills. Long goals yes but unstoppable passes to forwards no.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Can or could?

Most of what you have posted makes perfect sense, but I haven't seen the Eagleton you describe this year .ie. the foot skills & running one. What I see now is the slowish midfielder who picks up alot of kicks across half back and who doesn't have the same precision in his kicking as he once did.

I understand fully that Hill has many flaws in his game, many of which have been described by you and by other posters and these qualities could let us down at an inappropriate time, but he also has some abilities that other's in our team don't have and I think that some of these qualities could come in handy in a final.

That's the difficult bit. I think he can still do it, but I'm not sure to what extent. Over the last few weeks I've been pretty critical of him because he's only been able to make a few dashes/pin point passes a game. It's as though he's doing just enough to hold his spot in the lineup. Consistency within the one game is his biggest problem at the moment. He'll go from making space, running hard & slotting one from 55m to being a lazy, soft, slow & un-accountable player the NEXT contest.

Perhaps the thing that will save Eagle is that we haven't had too many decent players over the last six weeks. Johnson's been good, Murphy's been OK and probably a few others, but Eagleton's been joined by a whole host of under performing players. If Hill had the same attack on the contest as Harbrow, he'd probably be a certain starter, but his lack of a physical presence at a contest is a real worry. This week v Adelaide is a great chance for him though, it'll be a good dress rehearsal for The Hawks.

[ledge]

All in all Mantis it looks like it comes down to Eagles experience and Hill probably needing one more year in the gym.

[Go_Dogs]

I don't think I've ever seen Eagleton display great foot skills. Long goals yes but unstoppable passes to forwards no.

You should go back and watch some tapes of 2004 2005 and 2006 then!



TBB, I think your side is spot on. I'd probably have Boyd starting on the field and Eagle on the bench, but besides that, it's perfect. Hill is the really unlucky one, as he has played some very good football this year and will be unlucky to miss. Will be pretty keen for a big week this week, as will Harbrow, Everitt and Ward. Any of them are a realistic chance, but Harbrow seems to be slightly ahead at this stage.

[bornadog]

Good attempt at the best 22, however, I am worried about going into a finals series with two players that have played very little football for the year, ie Williams and Higgins. I accept we need to have Williams in there, so I would drop Higgins and perhaps bring in Everitt, only because of his height as a backup. If we think Everitt is not fit enough then Wight may have to be the backup to Williams.

Hill is going to be sensational for us, but he may just miss out.

[Bulldogs_6]

I'd definitely prefer Hill to Eagleton, gives us that exciting edge (like he showed early in the year) which unfortunately I don't think the Bald Eagle has anymore. IMO we just need that type of spark to beat Geelong, not rusty old timers who are in there to be rewarded for service over the years.

[LostDoggy]

Couple of slight changes to the team posted earlier.

B: Callan -- Lake -- Morris
HB: Hargrave -- Williams - Gilbee
C: Eagle -- Cross -- Hill
HF: Gia -- Murphy -- Aker
F: Johnno -- Hahn -- Welsh
R: Hudson -- Cooney -- Griffen
INTER: Boyd -- Higgins -- Minson -- Ray

Aker and Johnno can swap between those positions as both are very creative. Don't like Minson in the goal square as he can't play that position properly. Maybe play out of the square in bursts when Hahn needs a rest. Prefer Hargrave on the HB line as I think he prefers to run with the ball every now and then whereas Morris is your shut down style player. Ray probably would rotate with Hill on the wing with Higgins and Boyd rotating through the middle.

[1eyedog]

I'd definitely prefer Hill to Eagleton, gives us that exciting edge (like he showed early in the year) which unfortunately I don't think the Bald Eagle has anymore. IMO we just need that type of spark to beat Geelong, not rusty old timers who are in there to be rewarded for service over the years.

It's a very interesting one isn't it? There are quite convincing arguements in this thread for Hill to replace Eagleton. neither are particluarly strong defensively (although Hill going back to get a fist on the ball in front of Lloyd showed a bit), whereas Eagleton would have just turned around and ran to Lloyd to try to wrap him up. Hill is much better in the air while Eagle converts well from 50m. Both kick goals, Eagleton is more hard-bodied but doesn't use it aggressively, more as a burst through type player on the run. Hill finds space, probably because he is not respected. I'm stuck and would not be dissapointed to see Hill replace him.

[bornadog]

Couple of slight changes to the team posted earlier.

B: Callan -- Lake -- Morris
HB: Hargrave -- Williams - Gilbee
C: Eagle -- Cross -- Hill
HF: Gia -- Murphy -- Aker
F: Johnno -- Hahn -- Welsh
R: Hudson -- Cooney -- Griffen
INTER: Boyd -- Higgins -- Minson -- Ray

Aker and Johnno can swap between those positions as both are very creative. Don't like Minson in the goal square as he can't play that position properly. Maybe play out of the square in bursts when Hahn needs a rest. Prefer Hargrave on the HB line as I think he prefers to run with the ball every now and then whereas Morris is your shut down style player. Ray probably would rotate with Hill on the wing with Higgins and Boyd rotating through the middle.

so, Hill in, Harbrow out.

[LostDoggy]

Correct bornadog. Whilst Harbrow is hard at it and always applying pressure his skills let him down when he actually has the ball. Have to minimise your mistakes in finals which is also why Everitt should not be picked.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Correct bornadog. Whilst Harbrow is hard at it and always applying pressure his skills let him down when he actually has the ball. Have to minimise your mistakes in finals which is also why Everitt should not be picked.

Harbrow's skills have improved quite well actually. For example, that goal from about 45m out with extreme pressure against Essendon was a beauty - he wouldn't of kicked that earlier in the year. Hill turns the ball over more - he did so consecutively against Essendon with two very poor kicks & bad decision making. He got caught with the ball soon after too, so I don't think I'd be calling his skills as a strong suit. The debate for mine, as it seems like it is for others, is Hill v Eagleton at this stage.

[Ozza]

Agree with the OP. I'm definitely a Hill fan - but when trying to pick the side the other day - I found he just misses out for mine. Harbrow's tackling and ability to find a roving goal will be an element we need - and I think eagle may just have the runs on the board over Hill.

By the same token - I wouldn't be against Hill playing if selection goes that way.

Definitely no everitt at this stage. Absolutely no Tiller - would have Wight, Ward and even Street before him. Can't imagine he'd be anything but awful in a final.