Ins and Outs - qualifying Final [Archive] - Whitten Oval Online Forum

1eyedog

31-08-2008, 06:21 PM

Ins:

Hudson
Ray

Outs:

Skipper
Reid

I do not want to drop Higgins, Hill or Harbow but can we afford to play all three? If we bring in one of Everitt or Wight which one of the above makes way from them. FWIW I think we need Ray, Hill and Habrow in the side. So my guess would be Higgins goes. Can Hill play as 3rd man up against Buddy thus making the inclusion of Wight or Everitt irrelevant?

BulldogBelle

31-08-2008, 06:28 PM

In : Hudson, Ray, Tiller.

Out: Reid, Higgins, Harbrow.

Reasoning: Hudson- if fit it's a no brainer.
Ray - Big game experience, has performed in finals.
Tiller - Wildcard. Can compete physically with big Hawk bodies, I hope. Played v Haw last time.

Reid - Not his time. not strong enough yet.
Higgins -Needs more defensive pressure in his game, unlucky.
Harbrow- Very unlucky, only major fault is he goes missing for too long in games.

Skipper remains as a third. Swing man b/w defence.attack/ruck/bench as required. Maybe I've taken too much pace out of side???

bornadog

31-08-2008, 06:43 PM

In : Hudson, Ray, Tiller.

Out: Reid, Higgins, Skipper

Skipper remains if Hudson not fit.

Happy Days

31-08-2008, 06:45 PM

In: Hudson, Ray, Wight

Out: Reid, Skipper, Harbrow

The first two ins are gimmies IMO, and Wight could help stop Buddy in 2-on-1 scenarios, which looms as our only hope without Tommy.

Harbrow is very, very unlucky, but Hill is just ever so slightly ahead of him at this stage.

The Bulldogs Bite

31-08-2008, 06:55 PM

In : Hudson, Ray, Tiller.

Out: Reid, Higgins, Skipper

Skipper remains if Hudson not fit.

I agree with this, Higgins is unfortunate but he's not ready to give us what we need, especially in Finals. Ray really needs to stand up though, he's in trouble.

Mantis

31-08-2008, 07:19 PM

In : Hudson, Ray, Tiller.

Out: Reid, Higgins, Skipper

Skipper remains if Hudson not fit.

Who is Tiller going to pick up?

Bulldog4life

31-08-2008, 07:58 PM

In : Hudson, Ray, Tiller.

Out: Reid, Higgins, Skipper

Skipper remains if Hudson not fit.

Exactly how I am thinking too.

The Pie Man

31-08-2008, 10:24 PM

Who is Tiller going to pick up?

Campbell Brown might play forward - though Hargrave might be a more appropriate matchup.

Tiller on Roughead? Lake third man up on Buddy? Just ideas

Does Gilbee take Williams and Callan Rioli?

I'm sure Hargrave will be plan B if Buddy shreds Morris.

I still lean to Hudson & Tiller as the only ins (for Skip & Reid) though I'm starting to think Ray might take Higgins' spot. Harbrow would be very unlucky, and Hill keeps getting a fair bit of it.

strebla

01-09-2008, 12:36 AM

The Doctor

01-09-2008, 06:26 AM

I'd venture to say that if Ray doesn't get picked for the finals he may as well start packing his bags.

LostDoggy

01-09-2008, 07:33 AM

Why put in Wight?

Ozza

01-09-2008, 09:46 AM

Can't believe people are suggesting Tiller gets a game. Ludicrous.
And if Wight didn't get a game last week - then it would be very surprising to see him get a game this week.

Ins: Hudson, Ray
Outs: Skipper Reid.

bornadog

01-09-2008, 09:54 AM

Can't believe people are suggesting Tiller gets a game. Ludicrous.

Reason you think its ludicrous?

1eyedog

01-09-2008, 09:54 AM

Campbell Brown might play forward - though Hargrave might be a more appropriate matchup.

Tiller on Roughead? Lake third man up on Buddy? Just ideas

Does Gilbee take Williams and Callan Rioli?

I'm sure Hargrave will be plan B if Buddy shreds Morris.

I still lean to Hudson & Tiller as the only ins (for Skip & Reid) though I'm starting to think Ray might take Higgins' spot. Harbrow would be very unlucky, and Hill keeps getting a fair bit of it.

I'm worried about Gilbee on Williams, Williams may be too smart for him in the air. He guards space deceptively well does Williams and I'd prefer Hargrave on him. Callan on Brown (not ideal but Brown is only 177cm!) and Gilbee on Rioli (Rioli way too quick and smart for Callan he will tear him apart). I wish we had another plan B other than Shaggy on Buddy, but I don't want it to be Tiller.

1eyedog

01-09-2008, 09:55 AM

Reason you think its ludicrous?

In all honestly he will be LOST IN SPACE! He will get eaten alive and I cannot see a match up for him other than a Brown who swings or starts forward. He goes hard, but he gives away 2.2 free kicks a game in the games he has played. I don not want them 25m out from the Hawthorn goal. He is also a bits and pieces man. Too small to play on Franklin or Roughhead, too slow and cumbersome for Rioli and Williams. Brown is the only match up assuming he plays forward. He's not up to it, but neither are Wight or Everitt so it's a real quandary is Rocket wants to bring in an extra tall.

BulldogBelle

01-09-2008, 09:56 AM

Why is Tiller ludicrous? BOG for Willy, big body and we need big bodies v Hawks. Played well v Hawks last time, gives us options at either end. I reckon having all three of Hill, Higgins and Harbrow leaves us with little consistently applied defensive pressure. I know he's been poor in second half of year, but our options are limited.

Ozza

01-09-2008, 10:51 AM

The reason I think picking Tiller would be ludicrous is that he is clearly not up to it.

Firstly I don't believe he has had a single game that has shown that he is truly up to the level at this stage. A bloke like Tiller will get eaten up by the pressure of finals. You'll ask "How do you know that?".

well, to that - look at the Geelong game and the Sydney game - teams that apply enormous amounts of pressure - he couldn't even get the ball onto his boot most of the time, was terribly indecisive and was a liability every time he went near it.

I don't believe he shows the intensity, nor the poise required to compete in the environment of finals.
He IS NOT a BIG BODY. He is a lean type, only 190cms, has zero physical presence- is not tall enough or strong enough for the big guys - yet not quick or agile enough for the smaller or mid size types. He does not give an option up forward either - I can't remember seeing him take a decent grab or be creative enough to suggest he'll find a goal or make one happen.
He also does not make tackles stick. We can't afford to play him.

And don't try and tell me he deserves a spot because he played well for Williamstown...the standard is poles apart and they lost. The first week of finals is not time to start picking blokes on VFL form.

Tiller is ONLY a top up player - a depth player if you will - and to play him in our most important game for 10 years - is negligible.

mjp

01-09-2008, 11:51 AM

Playing Tiller because of his size is pointless. The coaches never, ever, ever, ever play him as a tall at AFL level - he always gets played as a flanker-type. Should they? I don't know - but it is clear to me that they don't think he is up to doing that sort of job (yet) so there is no value in picking him to do that.

Ray needs to play - he is more AFL ready than Ward or Reid at this stage and will provide more possession and run and carry than either of those two. He simply has to come in.

If Hudson is not fit, then we are in a world of trouble...it is not worth contemplating.

BulldogBelle

01-09-2008, 11:53 AM

Good points. Would you address the need for another type or leave as is? As stated by 1eye, Wight and Everitt not exactly flying either. Bringing in Ray and leaving in Hill/Harbrow/Higgins?

The Pie Man

01-09-2008, 12:11 PM

Good points. Would you address the need for another type or leave as is? As stated by 1eye, Wight and Everitt not exactly flying either. Bringing in Ray and leaving in Hill/Harbrow/Higgins?

Let's assume Hudson is fit, then Skipper & Reid are likely outs.

We can't play the back 6 that played Adelaide against Hawthorn, and Tiller appears the only 'tall' (yes, he's only 190 cms) in any kind of form. Maybe we gamble on Everitt.

mjp

01-09-2008, 12:31 PM

Well, if you assume Lake gets off (and I have no idea what is going to happen):

Lake - Roughead
Morris - Buddy
Gilbee - Williams (a roll of the dice on my behalf, but we HAVE to attack)
Hargrave - Rioli (forget his size, he plays best on opposition smalls)

What exactly do we need Wight or Everitt for? OK, if Brown plays then we need to account for him, but it is not as if we need to play a giant on him. Franklin and Roughead have kicked nearly 170 goals between them....and yes, I wish I had another option for Franklin so I could play Morris on Williams, but we don't so no point worrying about it...suck it up and get on with it. It is a final. Play your best players (or best available) and match them up as well as you can - if we are prepared to get first hands on the footy and run through the Hawthorn mid-field zone (and not try to go around it) and we can hit up Johnson, Murphy and Welsh inside 50m then we will win.

If we allow Lewis, Mitchell, Sewell and co to dominate the stoppages, let Hodge run wild across half back and if we turn the ball over by foot, we will LOSE.

The selection of the 22nd player is not going to decide this game. Whether our better players (Cooney, Griffen, Murphy) play better than theirs is going to be the difference.

Ozza

01-09-2008, 12:34 PM

mjp

01-09-2008, 12:42 PM

Timmy Callan should play on Cyril.
Hargrave can match up with Williams, plus lake/Rough and Morris/Buddy.

Those 4 match ups make the most sense to me...and Gilbee is freed up to be an attacking HBF'er.

Could we roll the dice with Eagleton playing on Hodge is Hodge is playing the running Half Back game?

Shaggy struggles against leading players...this wouldn't work. I would really like to make Hawthorn react to us...they would not like the Gilbee/Williams match-up as they know Williams would cheat and Gilbee would run off. Callan is nowhere near smart enough to play on Rioli - he needs to take an Osborne or someone of that ilk.

Sedat

01-09-2008, 12:50 PM

Shaggy struggles against leading players...this wouldn't work. I would really like to make Hawthorn react to us...they would not like the Gilbee/Williams match-up as they know Williams would cheat and Gilbee would run off. Callan is nowhere near smart enough to play on Rioli - he needs to take an Osborne or someone of that ilk.
Agreed 100%. Shaggy is our besr defender on opposition smalls so he should get Junior Boy - he has torched the likes of Milne and Farmer this season. Callan can take an Osborne or any of the other smaller forwards that Hawthorn rotate through. Like the Gilbee on Mark Williams match-up as well.

Mofra

01-09-2008, 12:53 PM

What happens when the Hawks play a resting ruckman forward in the pocket? Teams would obviously try to exploit our most obvious weakness being height in defence.
Would we be willing to roll the dice on Campbell/Taylor with Gilbee? In 2005 he was our only player to match up on an opposition ruckman from every other team.

Otherwise, we'd want someone who could at least threaten to compete in the air.

bornadog

01-09-2008, 12:55 PM

If Hudson is not fit, then we are in a world of trouble...it is not worth contemplating.

Street or Skipper for you MJP, if no Huddo

The Bulldogs Bite

01-09-2008, 01:05 PM

Shaggy struggles against leading players...this wouldn't work. I would really like to make Hawthorn react to us...they would not like the Gilbee/Williams match-up as they know Williams would cheat and Gilbee would run off. Callan is nowhere near smart enough to play on Rioli - he needs to take an Osborne or someone of that ilk.

I'm assuming Hawthorn will send Osborne to Gilbee, in order to negate Lindsay's run off half back. Hargrave does tend to struggle with leading players but I think he may get the first crack at Williams, unless they swap it around, and play Callan on Williams & Hargrave on Rioli.

At least we've got a few options on the Hawks smaller types with Hargrave, Callan & Gilbee.

Rocket Science

01-09-2008, 01:11 PM

The selection of the 22nd player is not going to decide this game. Whether our better players (Cooney, Griffen, Murphy) play better than theirs is going to be the difference.

Precisely...it's go time...tinkering at the edges is incidental...our regulars in the side simply need to be better at this stage.

Bulldogs_6

01-09-2008, 01:59 PM

Honestly I think too much of the issue here is on the defensive side of things. If we play the way we did at the start of the year we would hurt them going forward rather than worrying on their attack capabilities.
The real stat is that Roughead and Franklin are unstoppable, they have kicked 170 odd goals between them ffs. If we can hurt them through the midfield and focus on our attack I think we are in for a fair shot at it ;)

Desipura

01-09-2008, 04:01 PM

In Hudson & Tiller
Out: Skip and Reid

LostDoggy

01-09-2008, 04:28 PM

Whats Tiller's position and man if defensive?

Being a night game I think it more to our advantage than a day game that we go in defensively a bit short. Even better if it rains.

hujsh

01-09-2008, 07:09 PM

Didn't Callan do the job on Rioli last time?

Pretty sure whoever he played on he didn't give up many goals

Go_Dogs

01-09-2008, 07:16 PM

Didn't Callan do the job on Rioli last time?

Pretty sure whoever he played on he didn't give up many goals

IIRC Callan injured himself fairly early in the Hawks game?

The Pie Man

01-09-2008, 08:28 PM

Would it be fair to say the bulk of you would call for

In: Hudson, Ray
Out: Skipper, Reid

I wouldn't be unhappy with that - I noted Eade didn't mention Morris today when talking about the matchup with Franklin (Lake & Hargrave the two names) still think he'll get the job though.......

Can Morris play on Roughead? If you can't tell, I've got huge reservations with the Buddy/Glove contest.

LostDoggy

01-09-2008, 08:38 PM

If Morris can't handle Franklin then I doubt we have anyone else that could either.
Certainly not Wight or Tiller.

Hawthorn needs to be beaten from their midfield and HB line.

mjp

01-09-2008, 09:58 PM

Street or Skipper for you MJP, if no Huddo

Ruck Cross and go in with an extra runner.

The Pie Man

01-09-2008, 10:01 PM

If Morris can't handle Franklin then I doubt we have anyone else that could either.
Certainly not Wight or Tiller.

Hawthorn needs to be beaten from their midfield and HB line.

Completely agree - I just wonder if Lake is worth a try though, could even run off him if given the opportunity.....

hujsh

01-09-2008, 10:32 PM

Ruck Cross and go in with an extra runner.

I'd go with Cooney as well to give each other breaks

bornadog

01-09-2008, 10:35 PM

Ruck Cross and go in with an extra runner.

I don't think that will happen, but good thinking.

Scraggers

02-09-2008, 11:42 PM

Farren Ray was just on Sports Central (882 6PR - Perth Radio) stating he will be 100% playing this Friday Night against Hawthorn ... He said Rocket told him earlier today that he was most definitely playing

The Dogs were at a team dinner in Richmond tonight, and the guest speaker was Glenn Archer talking about the 22 finals he'd played

FrediKanoute

03-09-2008, 06:16 AM

I think that out will be:

Reid out is probably a certainty.

I'd like Skipper to stay, maybe as a decoy forward especially if Hudson doesn't get up.

Sedat

03-09-2008, 08:33 AM

Farren Ray was just on Sports Central (882 6PR - Perth Radio) stating he will be 100% playing this Friday Night against Hawthorn ... He said Rocket told him earlier today that he was most definitely playing
So he should. Ray and Griffen will be the two key midfielders that will help to break open the Hawthorn cluster with their run and carry - they have more bounces per game than any other Dogs players this season.